How to Build Real Accountability in Your Team (Beyond EOS & OKRs) with EMERIC ERNOULT

Welcome to the B2B Growth Blueprint podcast, where we talk with entrepreneurs, founders, and leaders at B2B services, tech, and SaaS companies to learn the systems and processes they've used to create success for their business. We'll also learn from marketing and sales experts to provide insights to help you grow your business. I'm your host, Mark Osborne, and the podcast is brought to you by Modern Revenue Strategies and their 10x ROI B2B Growth Guarantee. Schedule a free diagnostic call to learn the fastest path to double your B2B revenues in just 90 days. Hello and welcome to another episode of the B2B Growth Blueprint Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Osborne, and today I'm very excited to welcome my guest, Emre Ernu. Now, Emre is the co-founder and CEO of Agorapulse. They're a leading social media management platform he co-founded in 2010, and prior to that, he bootstrapped to more than $25 million in annual revenue and 150 people without a dollar of outside funding. He's a former business lawyer who left his legal career in Washington, D.C. for entrepreneurship. He's a serial founder and social media marketing pioneer whose work has guided global brands including Virgin, Microsoft, and the FIA. Before Agorapulse, he built one of France's pre-Facebook social networks and a B2B community software company. What sets Imrik apart is that he spent 15 years obsessing not only over building a company, but over how to actually run one. After 4 years inside EOS, He concluded that there were ways to improve it, and we're going to talk about some of that today. And he's built his own accountability system from the ground up and then turned it into a book and a software platform. So, Imrik, welcome to the show.

Well, Mark, that was a mouthful. That's a great introduction. Thank you.

Oh, I'm excited to have you and been looking forward to it. But before we jump into some of the topics like your take on EOS, the Entrepreneurial Operating System, and some of those other things, Why don't you tell our audience a little bit of your story? Like, give us a sort of a picture of the twists and turns of your career that brought you to where you are today.

Yeah, the less shiny presentation, which you did great. So, business lawyer from 1996 until 2000, starting my first business in 2000 with my co-founder at the time, failed miserably for 10 years. So it's a 10 years is a long time to fail, but obviously that was failure after failure. We tried a lot of things, pivoted a lot of things. You said it yourself, I started a social network before Facebook in France, like all wrong idea after wrong idea. It was the wrong country, too small, wrong language, not enough people in the French language. The term social network was not even a term. It was not coined yet, doesn't exist. So we were too early when you if you're if you're a business. owner, a business leader, you know that timing is everything. The timing, we got it all wrong. So, that was really hard. We did a lot of things. We pivoted that to an agency, to a white label software for enterprise companies. We tried a lot of stuff which didn't work, which didn't work. Eventually, that led us to do a service business around community building, which led us to realize that Facebook was going to own everything, which led us to build apps on Facebook. Bespoke one by one by one by one and selling them like $10K a pop to big companies, which led us to build a platform that got all these Facebook contest promotions, sweepstakes, quizzes, and stuff inside a self-serve SaaS platform. That was Agorapulse. That was the first thing Agorapulse did in the market and pivoted that several times until it became a full-blown social media management software because today we don't even do Facebook contests and promotions completely gone. So it was pivot after pivot after pivot. People always ask me, what was your grand vision? I say, I'm not— I didn't have any. My grand vision was I had to survive. And so I made sure I survived.

That's great. Well, they say that, you know, experience is the best teacher. And so I'm sure you've learned a lot through, you know, as I used to say, plowing the street with your face. Just learning all of these lessons. And you've turned that learning into some ways for other folks to sort of benefit from those skinned knees and bruised elbows. I know that a lot of folks rely on sort of systems and structures like the Entrepreneurial Operating System, EOS, as a way of sort of helping them to guide through some of those challenges. You actually spent some time working with EOS and found some ways that you thought you could improve it. Tell us a little bit about, you know, sort of that and the way your angle on that.

Yeah, to step back a little, I'd say that when you're a first-time founder and CEO, you have no idea what you're doing. I think we're all in the same seat. We have no clue. And because there's no training for that, there's no school to lead a company. And funny enough, go to Harvard or Wharton, you're not going to learn how to run a company. You're going to learn plenty of stuff, but not how to run a company. So, this is something we have to learn through experience. There's no other way to do that. And when you start doing this, you are making a lot of mistakes and those mistakes are very, very expensive emotionally and financially because you're at the top of the company, meaning that your mistakes go all the way down and impact everything. And you go to YPO and peer networks and all these things to learn from others and you read a ton of books. That's the way I learned. Mostly how to do my job. And you start things, you try things, you try OKRs, like you said, EOS. I read Traction. I read Measure What Matters. I read all the leadership books I could put my hands on because there's nothing more difficult to do a job you don't know how to do. And no one's here to help you. That's the thing. You'll be the coach of your team. Your team is going to be the coach of their teams and so on and so forth. But there's no one to— coach you to do your job. Of course, you can take coaches. But most coaches have never been CEOs themselves. So, they're coaching you but they don't know the job either. So, I mean most of them. Some of them may know that. But I've never met them. So, based on all these books, I started to test things and implement things. The first thing we implemented was OKRs, Objective and Key Results, which is very well known in the space.

Sure.

The problem with OKRs taken on their own is that if you do not embed them into a system, They're really hard to sustain because if you're not looking at them every week, if you're not reviewing them, talking about them with your teams, having team conversations during team meetings and one-on-ones with the people who are holding those OKRs, they go into oblivion. Like they vanish and then they disappear. And you get to the end of the quarter and say, oh shit, we had OKRs. Where are they? We never checked them. Are they— oh no, they're all at zero because nobody paid attention to them. So, OKRs alone didn't work for us because they were not embedded into a system.

That's why.

That's what I liked with EOS and Traction, the book that created EOS, is that they had their own version of OKRs. It's actually the same thing with a different name, which is called Big Rocks.

Yeah.

And the good thing with their version is that it's embedded in the tissue, in the DNA of how you run the company. So, when you run a team meeting, you talk about the Big Rocks. When you run a one-on-one, you go through the Big Rocks of the person you're running a one-on-one with, and so on and so forth. That's what I liked about Traction is that it was very practical. It felt for the first time, I felt like I had a recipe I could just follow. And if I followed it, if I run my meeting like the book said, if I run my annual planning like the book said, if I run my quarterly reviews like the book said, following— you had agenda items, do this first for 2 hours and this and that and this. It felt like, oh my Lord, I'm going to follow this recipe and I'm going to feel like I'm doing my job.

Yeah.

I'm actually doing what I should be doing, which I had no idea before. If we look at executive meeting agendas, I had probably tried like 5 or 6 different ones before we adopted the EOS ones. And they didn't work. And then, we kept trying and iterating. But you're iterating in the dark with your hand on your eyes and trying to hope that you're going to come up with something that will make your team more effective. So, That's what EOS was to me. It was, Aymeric, here's the recipe, just follow the playbook and you'll be doing a good job. I love that feeling. And so, we did that between 2021 and 2024, basically. That's how we've run the business. So, for 3 full years, almost 4. And that was really cool. But I had 2 things, really 2 things that EOS did not address at all that were a big problem for me.

Okay.

Number one thing was performance management. It's how do you manage performance? How do you hold people accountable to the highest standards while— and I like to add, while remaining a good human being, which is hard to do. High standards and human being, sometimes they don't work so well with each other.

That's right.

Look at Elon Musk.

That's right.

He holds high standards, but he's an awful person.

Right. That's right. That's right.

a really hard person to deal with. No one would say, I think, he's a good human being, at least with his people. But standards are really high and ambition is really high. So, how do you do— and I cannot do that. I don't have Asperger's, so I cannot be horrible with people and still run the business. I feel bad when I do that. So, I had to find a way or work on a way where I could hold people accountable to high standards and yet feel good about the job I was doing and the relationship I had with those people. And there's none of that in EOS. Zero. It is not even addressed. So, that's the first thing. And the second thing was how you run one-on-one. How do you coach people? And all the team meeting is quite well addressed by EOS.

Yes.

Annual planning and quarterly reviews are also quite good. But how do you run the one-on-one relationship and And the one-on-one rhythm with your team members is barely touched. It's very, very thin. It's very weak.

Yeah.

So, that I was not happy with. And that's why I started creating my own thing, basically. And the backbone of my own thing is a document that I write for each and every one of my team members. And then, my team members write the same kind of document for their team members and so on and so forth. We have 150 of them eventually. It's a document called What Success Looks Like. And it describes very objectively what does success look like in your job if the job is done well. Like, so it's okay. It's not a job description. It's very different. A job description is you should speak English.

Of course.

You should know HubSpot. You should run campaigns. You should generate leads, all that kind of stuff. What success looks like is like, it's like you're projecting yourself a year from today and say this, it's been a year. And this is what this— and I'm very happy about what you've done. And I want to hug you. It's so good. And this is what it looks like. So, you've— I don't know if you've heard about a book called Vivid Vision from Cameron Aron. That's about how you build a vision for your business. And that basically the book tells you, project yourself in 3 years and how does the business look like in 3 years.

Right.

Here, what you do is you project yourself in 12 months or whatever in the near future. And you say, what does the— what does This CMO position looks like if it's been done right and it's been successful. And you go through everything. So like we're compliant. We've achieved that many leads. We've achieved that many revenue targets. The team is made of this. The team is stable and high-performing. And yeah. And so, you go through all the things that this position is supposed to deliver within the next 12 months. So, it's not an easy piece of work because, you know, and usually it's like OKRs. The first time you do it, it's kind of clunky. But it's okay. You should not give up and keep iterating on that and improve it month after month after month through conversation with the person in charge of the role and say, hey, what do you think about this responsibility? Does that make sense that we talk about this weekly?

Right.

Is there anything else we should be talking about? So, especially for new roles, I spend a lot of time with my reports to redefine on a regular basis what success should look like because if it's a new role, we may Right. Some things or think this is going to be important, but eventually, as you get into the real practice, it is not that important. And so, it's a moving target. It's a living thing. It's not like a job description. You put it on LinkedIn, you open the job, and then you forget about it and you throw it away. This is not the case. You keep looking at it all the time.

Because it's a management tool. Yeah, it's an accountability and management tool.

Absolutely. And it's something that's collaborative. So, the way I build it, propose something and I say, what do you think? And then I get their feedback and then we discuss and sometimes we negotiate on some things.

Sure.

We agree, we disagree, you know, most of the time we get to a point where we both agree on what it does look like. We sign on it, you know, physically or not physically, it doesn't matter. We say, okay, well, are we, you know, an email, this is the final version of your WSLL, are we all good? Is this what success should look like in your eyes, you know, in your mind? And Yes, it does. Okay, go ahead. That way, when you go through the one-on-one— so what I do every week, I talk about one item of it during the one-on-one I have with my team members. And if it's good, I give them praise, which is something leaders don't do enough of.

Right.

So, at least here's a good opportunity to say, good job, Marc. You've done amazing on this. Lovely. I want you to keep going and keep crushing it. I'm super proud of you. I'm very happy to have you in the team to do that. And I want you to know that I value what you do big time. So, thank you so much. And when you do that, people smile. They're happy. It's good. You know, they feel good. It's positive reinforcement. And that's what you want to do if you want them to do more of the good stuff. So, there's that. And then, sometimes, some things are not working well. So, you're going to take that as a weekly topic discussion and say, hey, what about this? You know, in the lead generation stuff, we've been below target for 3 weeks. 3 consecutive weeks. What's going on? Like, what's your plan to fix that? We need to fix that. Okay, here's my plan. Here's this, here's that. And then you follow up on that. And sometimes you just have questions. So you see an item and there's a story I keep sharing because it's such a great story of how useful this system is. It was with my head of customer success, customer support, and it was back in November. And one of her WSLL responsibility item was build a high-performing customer success team. That's it. Very simple. They all have one that, you know, all of my execs have to build a high-performing team in their own line of work.

Sure.

And she was, oh yeah, let me show you. I have all these dashboards and these reports. So she started sharing her screen and showed me the dashboards, and the dashboards were pretty good. I was quite impressed by what she had done back then. And I told her, I said, well, I'm happy I asked because now I know you have these great dashboards, but These dashboards are very quantitative. They were all about number of emails sent, number of calls, you know, per week, number of meetings held. It was number of stuff done. It was output, basically. And I say, this is really cool to know the number of stuff they do. Now, what do you know about the quality of the stuff? Like, is the email good? Is the discussion in the QBR the right kind of discussion they should be having? Is the content of the meeting the right kind of content? Did you look at the recap of the meeting? Did they talk about the the right stuff? Did they actually do— they do work, but is it the right work and in the right way? And then, she looked at me blank like, I don't know. I say, oh, okay, that's interesting. We need to find out. So, we started to work on a plan with our revenue enablement person because we have call recorders. We have AI all over the place in 2025, 2026.

Sure.

And we are doing this kind of work to evaluate qualitatively the work of our account exec or salespeople. And so, we could do the same thing for the customer success people. So, we started to work on putting that together. And 4 months later, we had incredibly detailed dashboards with the qualitative aspects like, are the calls addressing the right things? Or are they having the price increase discussion at renewal that they should be having when people are thinking about leaving us to go with the competition, did they record the reason so we can learn and improve the product or improve what we do? So basically, it moved from everything quantitative only to quantitative plus qualitative. And now, we have a full picture of what people are doing, if they are high-performing or not. And before, if you don't have that as a goal and you don't ask the question, you never know. And then, you end up with, I don't know, maybe they are good, maybe they are not. Who knows? And that's what I like about this process is that you as a leader, as a team leader, you are every week, you're pinged to go dig deep into, is this working? Is this being done? Is this okay? So, there's no waking up a year after you hired someone or you set a target to someone and realizing like, I don't even know if it's done. I don't even know if it's working.

Right.

And for me, That was the main missing piece in EOS. It's like I could not work that material. Like it was not a topic of discussion. And I had, while running EOS, I made 2 bad hires. Well, bad hires can be a strong word, but I made 2 hires that didn't go well. And EOS did not bring me any tool to create accountability with those hires and to create transparency and clarity about what was expected and what didn't go well. And I thought, okay, there's something wrong with that operating system because it does not help me to catch the bad hires.

That's right.

And they last for too long. Like, the hard conversations went in way too late compared to where they should have been held. So, that was the main shift for me. That was the main thing that I Realized with EOS that made me move away and move on.

So, there's so much interesting stuff in there that sort of occurs. And you were talking about sort of OKRs. And the challenge that I hear from leaders with working with OKRs is you can't always control the results. Because like, if your OKR is sell $100 million, You can't really control other people signing, you know, signing the contracts. You can control the behaviors and the activities that get you there. And as you say, EOS does a good job of capturing metrics that are connected to those big rocks so that you can then see, well, is the behavior there? Is the action there? Because that's something that you can control. But I love that you've taken that a step further because What I oftentimes see in organizations is they set a big goal and then they set some metrics and some leading indicators that are going to get them there that are behavior-based things they can control. But then, it's the 301 level. It's the next stage to go beyond just is the behavior happening, but how good is that behavior? And normally, companies have to get there by Well, we set an objective and then we put these behaviors in place and then we missed the objective. Well, why did we miss the objective? Well, because the quality wasn't there on the behavior. But in your system, you're incorporating that quality piece along with the activity so that you really are getting the results that you're looking for.

Yeah. At the end of the day, if you're a CEO, you're not going to do the work yourself. It's your team that's going to build the teams that are going to do the work. Eventually, that's what it's supposed to be. And your job as a CEO is not to go and look at the work. And have you done the work? Is the work done? Like, if you do that, that's micromanagement. That's horrible.

That's right. That's right.

Your job is to set the standards and then to keep going back at the standards to ensure that they are understood and they are executed.

Yeah.

And in order to do that, you have to deep dive into how is it done. Show me. You have to inherently deeply understand yourself, how the stuff is done, so that you can have the right level of conversation with your direct reports. There's this— you probably heard about this founder mode that was discussed so often. And the founder of Airbnb talked about it a lot in a lot of interviews that he goes very deep. He asks very deep questions. He goes deep in the things, in the product, in how— in the go-to-market, in everything. And this is not micromanagement. This is his duty to understand very deeply how things are done to ensure that they are done according to his standards as a founder, as a CEO. And I think that is what we ought to do. The biggest mistakes I've made is by hiring someone and hoping they would do a great job, but not going with them inside in the weeds, checking if the job was done to the standards I thought it should have been done.

That's right.

And great people are not great because They are great. They're great because they're going to work with you, adapt to you, adapt to your company, adapt to your leadership style, adapt to your market, your industry, your roadblocks, and they're going to make their greatness work for your company. So, they bring their greatness, but you have to bring them the context. So, that means that you have to work with them very closely to show them how it's done, if in your standards it's done well.

Yeah.

And have those constant conversations about how the job is done. And that's For me, that's the only way. So that's, that's what accountability is for. Accountability is not, I set a goal, I go on vacation, I come back 6 months later, and I say, oh, the goal is not achieved. Oh, I should hold you accountable doing it. No, it's never going to work. It's, it's, it's impossible.

I, I love that. And the other thing I love about this is not only are you, you know, sort of advocating for, you know, a lot of accountability and both quality and quantity of the right activities in order to achieve the goals. But it's system-based because it's really built on a system of achievement. Whereas a lot of times, and I've seen this, and you talked about some of those founders that they've got a lot of energy, they have a lot of insight, they have a lot of sort of passion for growing their business.

Yeah.

But they don't know how to convey that to other folks. They're just sort of like, Be better and work harder. Like, whereas this really gives a system for, well, what do you mean by being better and working harder? Well, it's doing the right things in the right way in order to achieve those outcomes that you care about.

Yeah, and being better and working harder sometimes makes sense. But if you don't explain what that looks like, what success looks like, so we all go back to the same principle, then they're like, they may work hard in their own word. in their own world, in their own standards, in their own mind. But if your view of the thing, of harder, is different, it's our job to tell them.

That's right.

And it's our job to coach them, to explain and show them. And when do you coach people? During one-on-ones. So that's why EOS didn't work for me because they didn't address one-on-ones. So if there's no one-on-one, there's no coaching. There's no coaching, there's no getting better. There's no getting better, Basically, you have to assume that you take people for what they are and you're not gonna get anything more than what you got when you hired them, which I, which I totally don't think is, is the truth. I think the truth is—

Well, and it's not sustainable. Like, you can't build competitive advantage if you're just taking, you know, resources out of the marketplace. Like, everyone's taking resources out of the market. You have to improve those resources if you're gonna actually, uh, win.

Yeah, improve and adapt to your own system. My CRO, John, joined a year ago. She was working with HR companies. HR companies and social media and marketing technology companies are very different. So, if I do not help her get that context as fast as possible and doing that coaching job of helping her understand what is the context you're dealing with here, it's different with what you had before. And I say, I hired you. I pay you a lot of money. Now, it's you and leave me alone. That's not going to go well.

That's right. So I want to switch gears a little bit, but stay in this vein of thinking about leadership. And you've got such a perspective that, A, you've worked in the technology space for a long time, and B, you've sort of led teams and grown teams without external funding, as we talked about. And you've built a system around that. How are you using AI and automation and all of the new enhancements in technology, not from a tooling perspective? And I know that that's a big part of what makes AgoraPulse, you know, really valuable, but instead from a leadership perspective. Talk to us a little bit about how leaders today are successfully using some of the new enhancements in technology to do a better job of the leading aspect of their job?

Yeah, well, 2 things here. The first one is it's very personal to what I've done with the book. But I built the software to implement the book with vibe coding. I'm not a developer myself, right? I have no idea how to code, like zero. And no, I'm not a product designer. I'm not a product manager. And I'm not a developer. So, I'm the last person on earth to build a software product. And thanks to vibecoding, which everybody, you, me, my little brother, anyone have a microphone.

You've got a microphone, you can vibecode. Yeah.

You have a microphone, you have WhisperFlower or any kind of Whisper type of software, and you can say, hey, do this, do that, change this, change that, do a screenshot. I don't like this. This is a bug. How do you fix it? And I started building that tool, which helped me now run the teams and run the meetings and everything. Which I had no idea it was possible even 6 months ago. So, the first thing I would say to all leaders out there is that nowadays, if you have an idea of how to do the things you want to do with your team, you can actually build something yourself. Beware that if it becomes bloated and complicated like mine became, it's a full-time job almost on your way. But if it's simple, it can easily be built and it can easily be done thanks to AI and the vibe coding stuff that's out there. Yeah. There. So that gives us, the leaders, the team leaders, many more tools and possibilities to do our job as a leader because now we can build the stuff that we were lacking before. That's the first thing. The second thing is AI is the perfect memory for everything. So if you record everything you do, all your meetings, for example, and we all use meeting recorders nowadays, everybody has a meeting recorder. If you do that and you keep a good system, you know, people use Obsidian, for example, to keep all their AI stuff through, you know, MD files. And this is my memory of everything. AI is going to remember all you said, all you committed to, all they said, all they committed to, what all decisions you've made in one-on-ones and in team meetings. And it, this is going to give you the material to not let anything slip through the cracks. As to what's important for you, and if if your system knows about the what success looks like for everyone, and records all your conversations about all the things that your team shared with you, your team members shared with you, they achieved, they they committed to, they did not, they did or didn't do. AI is going to be an amazing chief of staff. You know the role chief of staff? Like people have been talking about chief of staff for many many years now. You know a lot of people put a lot of different things behind the role chief of staff, but at the end of the day, a chief Chief of staff, if someone helping the leaders make sure that the team are the the team meetings are starting on time, they are prepared, the topics are are are clear and aligned with the objectives and the goals and the ambition of the company. If there are to there are to-dos and follow-ups from the past one, they are being addressed before the meeting. During the meeting, every to-dos and follow-ups are being you know. Written down and shared with everybody. There's accountability held. Hey, you said you would do this. Where is it? It needs to be done by the next meeting. That's what a chief of staff does, basically, because founders are visionaries. They want to go to Mars and revolutionize X and Y or Z, but they're not operators. They're they're they're you know they're not run the company. They they they see far away and they lead people. They excite them. Hey, follow me! Follow my lead! It's going to be amazing. And everybody trusts them and want to get to them that that big vision that they sold them. They sold them. They sold role to them. But a few leaders are good operators. And so they usually hire, they try to hire a chief of staff or a COO or someone who's going to be a better operator than them. And with AI, you can almost replace that role. That's my, that's how I see it right now.

Yeah.

And that's definitely how I see the software I'm building because I want this to be that. It's still early in the process, but My vision for the future is that all leaders will have an AI Chief of Staff that will hold people accountable in their name. So basically, instead of me having to— you before the next one-on-one we have, hey Marc, you said you would do that report on the Marc on competition so that sales team will know how to reply to objections. I will not have to do that. But AI will send you a Slack message. Hey Marc, at the latest, at the last meeting with Amrik, you said you would do that report. Is that report done? Can you send it? Can you share it with Emre now? Yes, no, maybe. And then, okay, if it's not, the meeting is tomorrow, 9:00 AM. You should better get going.

Make sure it's done.

You know how he's going to feel about that. So, for me, that's the— you almost can do that today, almost. It takes a lot of work and moving pieces. But I think that's what AI is going to be. People call that the work brain or the company brain. Like, it's the perfect memory of everything that's being said. Within, inside all meetings, one-on-one or team meetings, and having all the jobs and the org charts and who is in charge of what and the projects and the project management software and the Salesforce and the leads in the CRM and the prospects being worked, like all that data that is everything we know as an organization in the same place and AI making sense of it where Our human brain is too small to get all the context into one, you know, big view of— so we keep forgetting stuff and we keep, you know, we keep leaving stuff on the side of the road. And then months later we say, oh shit, we talked about this, I totally forgot. And I forget things all the time.

That's right, yeah.

For me, perfect memory and a system that knows where to pick which memory pieces to put them, bring them together and create that Hey, Marc, you should do this now. That's what you should be focusing on. That's a great, great change of the future of leadership.

Well, Emre, you're obviously an expert in a lot of super interesting topics. And we could talk all day. In fact, we have another session scheduled where we'll talk some more. But before I let you go, you've alluded to this a couple of times, this software, this book that you're working on. Tell us a little bit more about that and Yeah.

Well, the book is called Chief Accountability Officer. It's a very easy title to remember. And it's basically, I love the book cover. It's Chief Executive Officer, but executive is scratched and accountability is handwritten instead, which I think is what the book wants to convey. You're not just Chief Executive Officer. You have to, you're the most accountable person in the organization.

Yeah.

You're the one person who needs to create accountability because if you don't, then nobody else will in your business. And it is a very, very practical book. I thought it through as a guidebook to this is how you do it. For example, when I talk about what success looks like, I built an AI coach that will help you. It's a custom GPT. Anybody can use it.

Of course.

The link is on my website in the free tools and resources that will help you through questioning define a good— what success looks like for any role in your company. And then, I give you templates and examples of the ones I have for my own company and my own exec. When I go through an annual planning, you know, I say, okay, these last for 2 days. This is the agenda of day 1, the agenda of day 2. These are the templates you can use. This is the prep work you need to send to your team. This is how long in advance you need to send it to them. Should you do it offsite or onsite? I give you pros and cons so you can decide. Really, I went through my life as a leader and I say, all these questions I had that was burning me and I was like, oh, should I do this? How does that work? How do I run an annual planning in the first place? I wanted to answer them in a way that almost felt like it's a recipe book. Like you just follow the recipe, my friend. You're going to be okay. I'm going to tell you exactly how it's run so you don't have to worry about whether or not you're doing it right. So, that is the book. It's basically a playbook. It's not a book to inspire you. Maybe it may inspire you, but that's not the goal. The goal is to help you, give you all the tools so you can run your company as a good CEO, as you should, without worrying about, am I doing it right? Is this the way you're doing it? And that's how I run mine. And I've been running mine for the past 4 years. And so, it's proven because it works here. It's funny because one of my execs sent me a Slack message yesterday and she said, I want to get the tool I built around the book. I want this site to be my third husband. This is so good. That was so funny. But I take a lot of pride in having my team send me feedback about how I run them. When they get back to me and said, we feel you're doing your job, I'm like, oh, thank you, because that's all I want to do and that's all I want to be. I want to be the right and the best CEO for them. And maybe that's a me thing. I don't know. But if they give me that feedback that they feel I'm doing a good job at my job, I feel really good because I want that validation that I'm a good CEO and I'm a good leader. And for me, that's what I tried to put in the book. Said this worked for me. It will probably work for you as well.

Fantastic! So, the Chief Accountability Officer, Emre, thank you so much for joining us today. I learned so much from our conversation. I'm sure our Thank you, Marc.

It was, as you heard, I'm very passionate about all that stuff. So it was high on emotion.

Well, and I look forward to our next conversation too.

Cool. Me too.

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