Scaling Sales with AI: Gabe Lullo's Growth Secrets

Welcome to the B2B Growth Blueprint podcast, where we talk with entrepreneurs, founders, and leaders at B2B services, tech, and SaaS companies to learn the systems and processes they've used to create success for their business. We'll also learn from marketing and sales experts, uh, to provide insights to help you grow your business. I'm your host, Mark Osborne, and the podcast is brought to you by Modern Revenue Strategies and their 10x ROI B2B Growth Guarantee. Schedule a free diagnostic call to learn the fastest path to double your B2B revenues in just 90 days. Hello and welcome to another episode of the B2B Growth Blueprint Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Osborne, And today I'm very excited to welcome my guest, Gabe Lulo. Now I'm gonna read Gabe's bio to make sure I get this right. He's the CEO of Alleyoop. They're a sales development agency working with both industry giants such as ZoomInfo, Salesloft, and Adobe, as well as emerging companies. And we're gonna talk a little bit about how they help companies that are moving from sort of a founder-led sales motion into sort of a sales and marketing-led motion. We'll talk about how they help with that. He's trained over 8,000 salespeople across diverse businesses, and during his tenure in Alleyoop, he's personally hired and managed more than 1,500 different SDRs, or sales development reps. He has over 2 decades of experience in sales, marketing, and executive recruitment, and his strategies have significantly driven Alleyoop's growth and shaped its corporate culture. Beyond his career accomplishments, he graduated from the Barney School of Business at the University of Hartford, and his leadership ethos is rooted in cultivating environments that prioritize both professional development and individual success. So, Gabe, welcome to the show.

Mark, thank you so much for having me. You know, I'm a huge fan of yours. Uh, by the way, thanks for reading that bio. Sounds like a nice guy to talk to.

I've been looking forward to it.

This is gonna be good, man. I can't wait.

So why don't you give our listeners a little bit of background? Like, you know, that was a pretty brief but, you know, action-packed, uh, bio that I read there. Tell us a little bit about your journey, uh, from, you know, what you did in the past and, and coming to the CEO of Allu.

Yeah, it's interesting. I went to school, I'm from Buffalo, New York, so go Bills. But I grew up in a blue-collar town. And at a young age, I was 11 years old, we were doing a fundraiser for our local charity at school. And I won the fundraiser. I sold like 122 t-shirts, really overpriced t-shirts to my family and friends. And I'm like, wow, I made money for talking. This is incredible. All I had to do was talk and I got paid. All my cousins and All my family and friends, they had to lift heavy things or build something to make money, and I just had to open my mouth. So I'm like, wow, this sales thing is kind of cool. So I'd started young and got into sales recruiting and training staffing right out of college. And then about 10 years in the staffing business, I saw this opportunity where the sales development function was really starting to have a life of its own. And companies, especially in the SaaS space, in the data space like ZoomInfo and others, Said, you know what? Maybe it makes sense to not have account executives do all the prospecting all day, every day. And so that's really where our company was born, and we've we've grown you know immensely over the last 15 years, and it's been a great ride.

So tell us before we kind of move into some of these other topics, I kind of just want sort of the audience to know like what exactly does Aliyub do?

Yeah, Aliyub is one of the largest sales development agencies in in the world, humbly. And so what we do is we work with Huge brands, Ingram Micro, Adobe, Outreach, Salesloft, ZoomInfo, and then many, many, many founder-led sales, new businesses bringing to market. And really, there's 2 types of customers, customers that have already tried to build their own function and it's just super expensive or it's not working or it's broken or they just want to not have to manage it. And so they come to us to do that. Or on the flip side, those founder-led sales, they've never done it, they've never built it. And so they come to us for us to really be the founding SDR function for their company. And then eventually, they're able to bring it in-house. So we run all the lead generation, appointment setting, and top of funnel for their companies.

That's awesome. So this sort of opens the door to a really interesting topic, which is, you know, we see a lot of companies where, you know, a founder has an idea for a better mousetrap and they they build that mousetrap and they know enough about the landscape because they've worked in it for a long time. They have enough, you know, sort of Rolodex that they can get to those initial customers. But then they oftentimes will hit sort of this revenue ceiling and it can be at different levels. It could be $1 million, it could be $10 million for different companies depending upon the size. And oftentimes the first thing that they try to do is let's just hire a sales leader And if they're exactly like me, we'll double our revenues. And it doesn't really work out. And the reason is because, well, sales leaders can't do what a founder can do in lots of different ways. But also a lot of times it's they're missing the sort of systems, processes, and infrastructure like a sales development rep motion. And so I'm sure that in your position at AllyYou, working with companies as they're making this transition from founder-led to more of a sales and marketing-led, you have a really unique and interesting perspective on that. So I'd love to dive in a little bit on, you know, some of the things that you've seen really be valuable and help companies as they try to break through that revenue plateau and get to that next stage through building more scalable systems.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, founders come to us all the time, and it's either they know enough where they need advice, or they've tried and and burn, and they're coming back to us to triage. But what we see all the time, to your point, is, you know, they're doing founder-led sales. As you're— again, also agree, the founder is the best seller, even though they may not be a seller by nature.

That's right.

I know a lot of developers who've created software. They're introverts, they're programmers, but at the end of the day, they can sell their product more than they think they can. And so once they start getting to this point where, okay, I want to just start leveraging this, They hire a VP of sales, and I think it's the worst mistake because a VP of sales is not a seller. A VP of sales is going to then turn around after you hire them and ask you for a lot more money than you're paying them already to go out and build a team. And so my thought is on this is to sell as a founder as much as you can for as long as you can. And if you're looking to leverage, don't look for that CRO or VP of sales to just go out and build a team for you because it gets expensive. Start building out a sales development function or using an outsourced firm, hire AEs and get that going. Maybe even on, it's a smaller level, it's a smaller cost too, but it's gonna get that leveraging model in place, those processes and procedures in place. And then you bring in the leader to come lead those functions that's already been established. That's, that's my approach on it. And it's been very successful for our clients when, when we give them more at-bats until they're ready to to take it over from there.

Yeah, that's totally true. And I've often heard it said that the last thing the founder should give up is sales.

Yeah.

And like, get all those other pieces in place. That's the last thing you give up. And you raise such a really insightful thing, which is, you know, the hiring of a sales leader. Oftentimes the reason why they've been successful at, and, you know, you always want to go hire somebody that's got a track record of success. A lot of times the reason they've been successful is because they were at a company that had highly functional marketing motions that were fueling that pipeline that they could then, you know, work on. And they had highly established systems in place that their, you know, sort of army of SDRs and AEs were following those systems. And then they were really good at, you know, maintaining motivation, removing roadblocks for those people. Keep keeping those people on task and on focus and implementing the system that existed, but they're not always good at creating that system from scratch.

Right.

And going out and developing a pipeline, working closely with marketing to, you know, find where those customers are and to refine the messaging that's gonna bring them in and create that pipeline. So it's such a smart approach to instead of You know, starting at the top, start a little more in the middle that kind of facilitates that founder doing more instead of them kind of giving it up.

Yeah, I mean, here's how I look at it. When you look at the SDR function, a lot of people just think it's, it's really simple, right? You hire a young person, they could just cold call, give them an Excel spreadsheet or access to HubSpot and, and then hope for the best. Like, there's so much involved in enabling, to your point, the supporting, right? Enabling an SDR. It's just as expensive, if not more, to enable one rep than it is just to pay them themselves, right?

Yeah.

So that's where the magic happens. And that's why outsourcing's a good idea if you find the right company. And this is not to be self-serving, but if you just think about it, right? I, I talk with founders all the time and say, yeah, we have 3 SDRs that are booking meetings for me. Okay, great. What dialer are they using? They're not using one. You know, how many calls are they making every day? It's less than 50. You know, what, what, what is, you know, what is their ena— uh, enablement? What's their delivery rate? You know, how, you know, how are the, how are the, uh, the objection handling guys? Are you training them? What's the pay structure look like? We ask all these questions and it's deer in the headlights. And so it's the enablement piece that is so crucial to the SDR function that drives, right, all of these amazing appointments for the founder. And you're gonna see a significant amount of return if you tweak that than you would if you just hired a, again, a quote unquote sales leader who is not really selling anything.

That's right. So we've talked a lot about sort of this really unique inflection point of, you know, so the founder has grown the business to a certain size and he's realizing he's, you know, he's smart enough to be self-aware enough to realize that he's starting to be at the edge of what they can do by themselves. And they're thinking about, all right, so how do I grow? So what are some signals that they're at that right inflection point? And it's not just Man, I hate selling. So I want to get, I want to get this off my plate as fast as I can because I am an engineer. I want to spend my time building solutions or, or maybe I'm just, you know, I was, you know, an expert in this field. That's why I created this professional services firm to deliver my expertise. I really want to get back to doing that, not selling. So there's a little bit of bias that they got to deal with. What are some kind of objective signals That you've seen companies use to sort of recognize from a founder-led sales progression when it starts to make sense to build out that, the, some more of those sales functions and capabilities?

You gotta know your numbers. If you have a repeatable process in place where you know your numbers, you've been doing it long enough and successfully enough for you to start building predictable revenue, you know, processes in place. That's how I look at it. So if I ask a founder a question—

Yeah. What are some of those numbers that are vital to know?

Yeah. I mean, well, it also— it's to me, it's math, right? It all starts with your total addressable market. Like, do you know the size of your total addressable market? Do you know your ideal client profile? Do you know if the product market fit is there? And then once we have the addressable market and the product market fit in place and the ICP in place, okay, let's work backwards. How many outbound calls? How many outbound emails? Numbers-wise, does it take to get to a connection? How many connections does it take to get to a meaningful conversation? How many meaningful conversations does it take to an appointment and then appointment to close? And what's your actual, you know, your sales cycle timeline look like? And once you get those numbers figured out, then you could start feeding the beast and putting people in place with expectations. Because again, you hire sales leaders, you hire even a sales team. The first thing they're going to want to know is what is their quota and what's success to them? What do you expect from me in the first 90 days? And you can't really come up with these quota attainments and measurements to track their success if you don't know those numbers, because then you're just guessing and you could be overpaying for something and go out of business. So those, in my opinion, you have to figure out your numbers and those are the numbers that are important. And then you could start again, Just multiplying from there. Yeah.

Well, and one of the things that we see, you know, founders oftentimes will push back and be like, well, I know my numbers, but they're not really accurate because we used to call a marketing qualified lead X, but now we call it Y, or we used to, you know, chase more deals that we never were, you know, sort of gonna win. And so we've refined that a little bit and there's this resistance to being sort of accountable to specific numbers.

Yeah.

But, you know, when we— what we see is that when folks eat the frog and sort of just, you know, dive in on, all right, I'm gonna commit, these are the numbers. I'm not gonna excuse that, well, we have this one big client and everyone else doesn't really matter. But instead, all the numbers are the numbers. That's where you start to really kind of create some scale that you can optimize against.

Yeah.

Rather than just sort of thinking that everything's a unique snowflake.

Yeah. And not all one measurement serves everything in regards to your different channels. For instance, you know, a lot of companies come to us and have been relying 100% on inbound. And then once you add outbound to it, they're attaching those numbers to outbound and it's a totally different beast, right? You can't expect the same formula on an inbound lead on an outbound lead. It Different in every way. So you have to know your numbers to the point where, you know, every, again, type of channel, it has to be measured differently. Phone is different than email, you know. So you have to look at those channels, you have to look at inbound and outbound, and you have to know your numbers for every single segment. Yeah.

Well, and you raise a really interesting point that, you know, we see companies struggle with a lot is, you know, first they've got sort of the minimum viable product, they got some customers, All right, there we've got a reason to exist. And then they have product market fit when they've got some customers that are staying, they're willing to pay, and they're willing to refer more folks. So now you know you really got product market fit. The next stage that's so often overlooked is that go-to-market fit where they really align on what's the way that we bring this solution to the marketplace. And we see companies a lot of times will Well, let's try this, this, this, and this. So we're sort of taking a shotgun blast. We're gonna try 20 different things.

Yeah.

Instead of thinking through what's the go-to-market motion that's most likely to be successful. Let's iterate on that and put all of our effort on that one strategy, maybe 2. And we have seen a lot of data to show that the companies that they try 10 things, And then they, you know, kind of whittle down to 1 or 2 versus the company that tries 2 things and same amount of effort because you only got so many hours in the day, only so many resources to put against it. Those companies that kind of pick that go-to-market motion and then invest in getting better, their long-term growth trajectory looks much better than those that are trying to take this, you know, sort of shotgun blast, which is a little non-intuitive because you think, well, diversity of you know, sort of sources is good. And I do think diversity of sources is good, but not a diversity of go-to-market motions because they're very different.

Yeah, I mean, we do everything in the form of 2s, right? It's A/B testing, not A through Z testing, right? You know, and that's a good line, right? But A/B testing, and we look at that all the time. You want to always compare 2 numbers as opposed to compare 15, to your point.

Yeah.

And, but you also have to get, you have to be patient. You have to give enough time to it. You know, we have a lot of clients say, oh, well it's not working. We, but we've only been doing this for 30 days. You know, the way we look at everything, it takes 90 days.

And our sales cycle is 3 months.

Yeah, exactly. It takes a quarter, 90 days for anything to happen in sales, right? You have to test it over the course of 3 months. It's like the best analogy is boiling water, right? You can't boil water any faster. You gotta keep it on high, but it's gonna take 3 minutes to boil the water. It's gonna take 3 months. That's my analogy.

So you have to look at it and from, from a long enough period of time.

So I think you're right. I know you're right. A lot of people do 10 things at once, but they also change every 5 minutes, and you're never gonna really see if it's going to work or not if you don't give it enough time to make those decisions.

Yeah. Well, and it comes down to, you know, fundamentally marketing and sales is thinking in bets. And so you have to sort of make a bet, but then stick with that bet. And not, not fold because you got concerned. But if the cards haven't changed, you keep matching that ante so that you can stay in and see how that bet plays off. If you fold every time, you're going to lose your ante every time and not be able to see the payoff of your strategy. And so it's one of those things that you just have to do. But if you've taken the time to be strategic, then you know that you're making the bets that are, you know, have the highest probability of paying off.

Yeah, exactly. Every deal we do, we do 6-month agreements here, and it's not because we just came up with that number. We do it because we need 6 months to show you the ultimate result. We need 90 days to boil the water that creates our benchmark, and then we want to go for another 90 days to take that number and show consistency. And so that's why we do things in 6-month increments. So it gives us I mean, it gives us a 92% retention rate because we know that that's what we need to prove this out if they're doing it for the first time.

That's right. Well, and the other benefit of, you know, focusing on a specific go-to-market motion like building out a sales capability is if you're trying 10 things at once, well, you're likely gonna bring in some software to enable it, which has some cost to it and has a learning curve to it. And maybe you need a person to sort of manage that particular go-to-market motion.

Right.

Each of them has that and then none of them talk to each other. And so you've got all this complexity in your organization that again slows you down versus focusing on a strategic bet on let's move from founder-led to more of a sales and marketing-led motion with SDR being a specific, you know, sort of go-to-market strategy. That's a much cleaner approach which doesn't have all of that overhead.

Yeah, it's the assembly line approach, right?

Mm-hmm.

You look at the assembly line when building the car, it's the same thing with the sales process. And I think people overlook the sales development function 'cause it's still only about a decade, decade and a half old to the SaaS space, for instance. And so when you look at it as its own department, its own function, that's really where it starts to roll. And I couldn't agree more.

Yeah, I'm part of Winning by Design's brand ambassador program. They have this revenue architecture infrastructure and they talk about it like it's a revenue factory. And so factories have different production lines and that's what each go-to-market motion is, is that production line.

Exactly.

That you want to focus on. So great strategic framework, great sort of mindset on when is the right time. to start to bring that in. But you also have a really unique perspective from, you know, where you sit is you've got some, you know, finger on the pulse, ear to the ground, whatever cliché you want to use of like what's working today. So not to go from strategic to too tactical, but I am very curious to sort of get you to share some of your expertise. What are some of those tactical things that are working in the marketplace today? What are some of the trends that you're seeing You know, change as we, you know, move into 2025?

Yeah, I'm saying what's old is new again.

Okay.

You know, email right now is, is just getting destroyed. And so the inbox is so much more difficult to get into. There's spam filters left and right. You know, Google and others are putting more and more protections in preventing emails from getting into those inboxes. Most of them now are being written by AI, and we know that it's being written by AI. personalized email when it says, you know, what college I went to for my LinkedIn page is the first sentence. And then the second one is, hey, can you take a 15-minute call?

Go Bears!

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. It's just like the reality is like email to me, I don't want to say it's dead, but the way it's been used for the last 5, 6, 7 years is dead. And so phone right now, even though most think no one picks up the phone anymore or the phone is like old antiquated technology, It is where 90% of our leads that we're creating every single day is happening. And some of the biggest orgs in the world, best tech firms in the world, are relying on the phone to have the fastest, most effective way to create a lead. And so everything we do revolves around the phone. It doesn't mean we're not doing social. It doesn't mean we're not doing voicemails. It doesn't mean we're not doing video outreach. It doesn't mean we're not doing content. It doesn't mean we're not doing email. But it, all of it is supporting that phone conversation and that's where the magic happens. And so I think people, you know, people don't like cold calling. People are afraid of it. People don't know if they're good at it. You know, I look at it like Saturday Night Live, like being live is stressful. It's, it's challenging. It's more difficult than it is to do a recorded, uh, TV show.

Right.

Same thing with email. Email, you could think about it, edit it 15,000 times and then send it out. SNL, Saturday Night Live, you're live and you're on. Same thing with cold calling. So you gotta find people who are really good at it. But it is something that we are using immensely, and our clients rely on us to do that every day.

I, I think that's so insightful. And one of the major trends that we're seeing too is the explosion of generative AI is leading to an explosion of things that aren't live. Because it, it does a great job of creating more and more content, but there's only so many hours. And I actually am seeing that it's elevating the value of real one-to-one interpersonal communication.

Yes.

It makes that phone call so much more valuable because everyone else is just blasting out the emails. So even if your email is the most insightful one ever sent, It's really hard for it to stand above the noise. But those phone calls, because as you describe, it's hard, not everyone's doing it. And so when it's done and done well, it really creates a totally unique experience. And we're just seeing, you know, as you say, everything that's old is new again. Interpersonal relationships have become so much more important with the rise of generative AI because now Everyone is blasting everyone all the time with all of this content. Yeah.

All this noise and half of it's produced through automation is just allowing, to your point, the human and the authentic and that VIP feeling to rise even to be more valuable. Right now, this is a phone call. You and I are talking live right now. Just because we're on video and on Zoom and on conference calling doesn't change it from being a 2 people talking live and interact. That that's a phone call, just a different technology medium that we're using. So we're all wanting that, right? This is where the magic happens. This is where the deal is done. This is where the client relationship starts. But yet we're not wanting to do that to to create the conversation or open the doors. Doesn't make much sense to me. Now I'm a huge fan of AI and utilizing technology to leverage the ability to create more conversations is super important. But, you know, I don't think— I mean, the SDR function was looked under a lens over the last few years as potentially going extinct, but everyone was— that was debunked pretty quickly. And now, you know, it's here to stay and it's getting even more and more important.

So you mentioned AI within the SDR function. Are you using a lot of AI tools to Look at call transcripts and score calls to sort of improve quality and things like that. Tell us a little bit about what you're doing in that space. Yeah, there's amazing current state of the art is so that folks that don't have the privilege of working with Allyoop can think about how maybe they should be thinking about it for their organizations.

Yeah, so the AI capabilities are absolutely awesome and we are adopting it in big ways. Just a few to share with you. There's dialers out there that allow us to make a significant amount of calls that we have never been able to do before at scale without losing quality. But on top of that, it also is smart enough to know when I should be calling somebody and who I should be calling them and what time I should be calling them based on historical patterns.

One chance.

On top of— yeah, on top of that, it's able to leave voicemails in your actual voice. That's more personalized. So when that call doesn't get connected to, we're dropping a good voicemail to create that opportunity to call back. And then on the flip side, on the more of the analytics and the reporting and the training, you know, we have AI cold calling role play tools.

Yeah.

So a rep could get spun up faster on a product because they're role playing with an AI versus, you know, shadowing for 2 weeks before they're put on the phones. So they can actually start making calls faster and do that practice drill, rehearse themselves through AI and training them. And then they're able to get scorecards and battle cards and best and objections and actually is prompting them to say things that the AI is listening to the call live and saying, hey, based on what that person just said, say this. And it's helping them. So not doing the job, but definitely giving them tools and training and reporting and feedback very, very quickly. So we don't have to have a, you know, 1 to 5 manager to SDR ratio. We can have a 1 to 10, and now we can get as much done as we used to, if not more, without having to have that higher manager headcount.

Yeah, I've seen some really interesting AI tools that are, as you sort of described, like sort of a this sort of overused phrase, but like a copilot or like an agent riding along with you that has really detailed infinite knowledge about maybe a very highly technical, you know, sort of solution and can listen in so that the live person can have a real empathetic human conversation and talk about, well, what are some of your challenges? And when they say, well, I'm struggling with A, B, and C, it'll go, If they're struggling with A, B, and C, they might be interested in features X, Y, and Z. So then the person can go, well, actually, did you know that we can do this? They go, wow, that's exactly what I was looking for. And not only does it have, you know, sort of those broad strokes, but even like detailed things like, yeah, and we were written up recently in this magazine for having the best, and here's the quote from one of our, you know, best clients, and really brings all that richness of insight. It would be impossible to memorize, especially in the first month of working there and sort of makes those early stage folks seem like they've been doing it for a lifetime.

Exactly. I mean, it's pretty expensive and sometimes impossible with non-competes to go find a really good seller who's at your competitor, which would be sometimes an ideal space, right? Because you know that they have that rich knowledge and they know the industry and they know the product because they've been selling, you know, against you. That's expensive to do, hard to do, and sometimes you can't do it. But here it's that ramp-up time of getting, you know, that data download into the new rep's mind, which of course helps with sales cycles. And it is definitely helping in a big, big way for doing that.

Yeah, well, and that's one thing that I would kind of say out to our audience too, is there's— I know that I've worked with a lot of folks as they start to mature in their go-to-market motions, maybe they haven't been recording their phone calls either just because they're old school and it's not something they think about or whatever. They're worried that their clients might, you know, have some aversion to it. But that's oftentimes sort of that first step to starting to distill what does a good call look like so that you don't have to sit over the shoulder of those SDRs. You can say, Hey, this call was a great discovery call where we were able to uncover all of the needs, and I asked the right questions, and I'd had the right amount of caffeine that day, so I was firing on all cylinders. And this one's a really good example of, you know, sort of the qualification call where we did a good job of establishing, you know, all the decision criteria and the decision makers and timeline. Like, if you can start with that, how you're, you know, Head and shoulders beyond where you would be if you just were starting with, okay, well, welcome to the company. Here's our sales deck. You might want to familiarize yourself with that. You're going to be listening to me for the next 2 weeks as you try to make some notes. Half of these calls are going to be crappy. The other half are going to happen when you're on your lunch break or otherwise unavailable. So it's going to take another week.

Yeah. And it's the pre-call research too, right? So how much time are we asking our AEs And especially again, you founders out there listening, you got to put a lot of time in before these calls. So that pre-call research could be done through utilizing AI that allows you to save so much time. So when you're going into that call, you really know everything you possibly can about that company as opposed to spending 15 minutes, hey, tell me about your company. And all that stuff could just be pushed aside and you can again get to the meat of the conversation faster. People respect you more for it. And I think that's what's gonna win the business if you use it or not.

Yeah, we recently started doing sort of like a custom meeting prep bot for each of our clients for different types of meetings so that we'll create a collection of prompts. We feed in a lot of information about their products so that it's always there. And then we can sort of just feed it the URL of a LinkedIn profile. It'll go find the company, it'll go find their 10-K reports. It'll go find recent press releases so that you can start the call with, hey, thanks for taking some time. I saw this recent article about X, which makes me think that maybe you're dealing with Y, and we solve Y through this solution. Would you be interested in hearing more? Yeah, so much better than, how are you today? How's the weather?

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And in our world, I mean, it's— we're the product of the product, right? So when an SDR books an appointment for us, Usually they take the meeting because they say, wow, if the SDR you put on my team is as good as the one that just called me, like, I'm interested. Well, if we showcase and go into a demo and say, and we're very transparent about it, say, hey, listen, we did a lot of research using our AI tools about your company. Here's what we found out. And we show the screen. Here's what we're looking at. Correct me if I'm wrong. Are we off on any of this? And they're just like, whoa, right? And they're like blown away. And they're like, you know, you've already done all this using your technology. Imagine if you use, you know, the same approach to bring our business to market so it sells itself. Now that's a little, you know, because of what we do. But yeah, any ways you can utilize your product into the process of selling it will, will be hugely helpful.

Well, Gabe, obviously we're both really passionate about these topics. We spend all day talking about it, but I gotta be mindful of your time. Before I let you go, so for, you know, those that are listening and they're like, wow, I am getting to the edges of what I can do myself as a founder. And I have tried some sales motions before that didn't really work out. Give us the pitch. Like, why should someone call you?

Yeah, absolutely. Well, more of what we were talking about, you know, cold calling is hard. We made 11 million cold calls last year for all of our clients. You could come in with us and within 90 days, you know, be fully ramped on a go-to-market strategy for sales development. Usually that would take months, if not years, to perfect and manage and purchase all the right things to make it best in class. And immediately you can have a function happening that's going to be generating leads for you. And now we also are unique where we want to mimic what you would expect from a transparency standpoint on what an in-house team would do. So you just don't get meetings sent over to you in an email. You're seeing our entire dashboard, you're seeing the leads that are being created, you're seeing if they're— the stages they're in. Are they nurture? Are they warm? Are they hot? So you're seeing everything you would expect to see if the team was living in-house, and everything is white-labeled to you as well. So we're a true extension of what you would want to see an in-house team to produce for you through the entire lifecycle of creating that lead. So that's what we would do.

Very exciting. So how do folks get in touch with you? What's the best way to connect?

Yeah, I'm very bullish on LinkedIn. I post 7 times a week. We, so we're all over LinkedIn. I have over 450 videos and posts on my LinkedIn profile, all talking about this stuff. We can geek about it all day long, as you just mentioned. So there's a lot of free content out there to get a gist of who we are and what we do. But shoot me a note on LinkedIn. We'll love to talk furthermore. Awesome.

Well, Gabe, thanks so much for joining us today. I've Really enjoyed our conversation. I know our audience has learned a lot.

Thank you, Mark. Big fan.

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