The Blueprint for Growing Your Consulting Firm with Salesforce Expertise with SM CEO Nima Mohajeri

Welcome to the B2B Growth Blueprint podcast, where we talk with entrepreneurs, founders, and leaders at B2B services, tech, and SaaS companies to learn the systems and processes they've used to create success for their business. We'll also learn from marketing and sales experts to provide insights to help you grow your business. I'm your host, Mark Osborne, and the podcast is brought to you by Modern Revenue strategies and their 10x ROI B2B growth guarantee. Schedule a free diagnostic call to learn the fastest path to double your B2B revenues in just 90 days. Hello and welcome to another episode of the B2B Growth Blueprint podcast. Today I'm very excited to welcome my guest, Nima Mahajeri. He is the founder of SM Innovations, a digital consulting firm focused on financial services, travel, and transportation sector clients. He has over 20 years of experience in the financial and consulting sectors, and his career actually began in engineering, concentrating on operations within the financial sector. He then transitioned into management consulting, where he excelled at digital transformation. His tenure at IBM Digital culminated in the founding of this company, SM Innovations, a Salesforce consulting firm. And we're gonna learn about that sort of founding story as we talk later today. Recently, he's had a strategic partnership with a colleague from a larger Salesforce systems integrator, and he's now moved into the role of VP of Sales. So we'll talk some about what that new role entails and some of what that transition has looked like. In this position, he leverages his extensive experience to drive growth and solidify the firm's standing in the consulting industry. So, Nima, welcome. Thanks so much for joining us today.

Thank you very much, Mark. Good to see you again.

Yeah, absolutely. So you and I have known each other for years, but for our listeners, tell us exactly what SM Innovations does.

Yeah, we've known each other for, uh, quite a while now. I think it might have been about 2012, by the way, when we first met. Um, SM Innovations is a, as you mentioned, a digital consulting firm, uh, that focuses primarily on Salesforce, our Salesforce partnership So Salesforce, we work directly with them and they would recommend us for deals. Let's say Salesforce will sell a license. The best analogy is they sell them Legos and we take those Legos and build the Empire State Building out of those Legos because Salesforce can do so much. We also have a partnership with a couple other companies, most notably would be AWS, but the most active out of the many partnerships is Salesforce. And out of that, we do focus mostly on financial services. We also— the next sector broadly is travel, transportation, and hospitality. But within financial services, it's banking, you know, regional banks, credit unions, wealth management companies. And then we also have done other subsectors like insurance REITs, And again, it's setting up Salesforce to match and align with the business processes within those. And we lead every engagement. One of the things that makes us unique is that we lead every engagement with a subject matter expert. So it's kind of like the cross between somebody who's worked in Salesforce, like a Salesforce architect and a bank, or Salesforce And an airline, right? So because we have worked with a few small airlines, but mainly like, so that is a very niche space. And that's where we, you know, that's where we excel is because that niche space and the value we add to the Salesforce team is we know both of these kind of paths and we can fill in, you know, we could shine a light on the journey ahead from that, from, for the customers.

That's really interesting. So, you know, a lot of businesses, they are sometimes afraid to limit their market, to limit their total available market. But everyone says, you know, the riches are in the niches. I didn't coin that phrase. It's been around a long time.

Yeah.

But as companies are, you know, sort of thinking about committing to a specific area, and obviously if you've got subject matter experts within the company that know a particular industry and, you know, sort of the overlap of that with Salesforce. You've made a real commitment to those specific industries. How did you sort of know those were the right industries for your business? How did you sort of identify that and then make those commitments?

It's a very good question. It's a subject of debate in our industry. There are plenty of players that play the field across the whole gamut and say we just do Salesforce. But the problem is when you get, you know, and again, this is the theory that I believe and now my new partner believes as well, who used to guide me on this process and now has joined us. But it's that when you talk to a specific customer, actually, let me take a step back. In the consulting world, what you wanna get to is longer and longer engagements. So in management consulting or services businesses, the longer engagements allow you to, you know, add more value to the customer by having longer engagements and getting more involved in the business. So the natural progression for consulting companies is to move up. You think of the global companies like, you know, Deloitte, Accenture, they're only there, they don't touch mid-market, right? Because those areas don't provide the Margins for them. So, okay. So now that we understand that the natural progression of consulting is to go up because you can bill more hours and add more value and give more to the customers. When we Salesforce has a need from small business all the way up to enterprise, and so it's about how much value can you deliver to those specific niches. And so when you're starting out, Salesforce may give you or you may find small businesses that they'll You know, give you some, you know, some business. But from an operational perspective, it's very challenging to jump in and out of small clients. And, you know, because the billable hours may only be a month or a few weeks, and it's hard to have a staff that's dedicated and knowledgeable when they need to be working full time. It's better when you go upmarket and you have a 6-month, year-long engagement. We can add more value. The customer gains more. So the way to do that is to really understand the customer and get in there with what is their specific subsector. And then within that specific subsector, take for example wealth management, you may, that's a whole other thing in itself. It seems like a niche, but it's actually a massive, massive industry. So what you may, what may look like a cross between 2 niches is actually a cross between, you know, 2 huge, huge sectors. Now, the companies that I've seen that start out small, they're smaller consulting companies that go across all different subsectors. I don't— I believe they find it extremely difficult to go deep into the business processes with certain companies. There may be exceptions to that, but it's— I find it A little bit more difficult to do that.

Interesting. So I guess the, the sort of guidance there is obviously you want to pick, you know, a subsector or a sector that has enough sort of market potential to build a business on. But the more you can deepen your relationship there, the longer you can add value and the longer your engagements can be with those clients, making it both more efficient for your business and Better outcomes for your clients because they don't wanna have to switch vendors frequently. They wanna continue to get insights from their partners so that it's sort of a mutually beneficial structure.

Exactly. And so, so one of the things you touched on was getting insights. What a consulting company should think about is always, would this conversation be something my customer would want to pay me for? Did I add value with this you know, interaction with this customer when they meet with me as a salesperson or anyone at my company, would they want to pay me some money for that time? Because we're guides in a sense, right? And so if we're able to present some value, say, in their sector that they didn't even know about, right? Take the financial services industry that they didn't know that Salesforce could, for example, completely solve these slew of pain points, right? We just, you know, we're big on workshops. So we just did a workshop for— we did a few recently. We did one for a large insurance company, right? Like one of the largest in the state. We sat down and we went through 25. We had 5 different groups of management that came and presented to us, and they went through all the different pain points, and they may not have known necessarily, and that Salesforce's, you know, 30 different clouds that they own can solve all these things specifically. And We also understand like their industry pain points, for example. So we're able to bring not only domain expertise, not myself always, I bring in a subject matter expert, right? Domain expertise into say insurance, financial or wealth, et cetera, and Salesforce's suite of tools. It's like an aha moment every time they meet with us. And so that's when we know, you know, we're doing a good job.

That's great. When I was talking through sort of your bio earlier, obviously you've been in sort of the digital innovation space, you know, for some time and you did consulting. And so you had a lot of knowledge about how to, you know, add value to companies, but you had this sort of entrepreneurial vision that, you know, how you could do it better or in new and unique ways and sort of a passion for that. For our listeners that, you know, maybe they work in an industry where they have a lot of expertise, but they're trying to figure out like, you know, how do I take that expertise from working for a big company and then use it to sort of start out on my own? I think you have kind of an interesting story there about how, about how you got your first clients and really started to break through. Tell us a little bit about that.

I definitely do have an interesting starting point that I wanna get to, but I do think it's worth it to circle back on one point 'cause I think it dovetails nicely into this is why should you start? Why should anyone start with a niche rather than general? And this is my opinion, but I believe that, you know, there's a decent reason for it. And it's that what somebody should look at is if you want to be, let's just say services business, and you should want to give as much value as possible to your said customer. And you can do that by obviously, you know, narrowing down to the niches, but you can still have a lot of growth afterwards if you master that niche. For example, mastering, let's just say that we do eventually become a top, you know, top tier Salesforce consulting firm for all of, let's just pick insurance, for example. If Salesforce pegs us as one of the top 10, we know that we're pretty much, we're on the way there. We're good. We're still You know, I can set that business, put the right management team in place, and I can even let that business run itself at that point as an entrepreneur, right? Because there'll be enough, by that point, there'll be enough salespeople, engineers, project managers, the whole system will be running itself. So I'm not worried about staying small because I'm in a niche right now. Start with that niche and I'll take all those learnings and we'll move to the next vertical, right?

Right.

And so for me, it's all about staying super, super narrow. And out of those sub-verticals that I mentioned to you, we're way more active in 2 or 3 of them than the rest. We just happen to have customers across all those, but we really focus on about 2 or 3 of them. So I believe in staying with the niche, going really deep, becoming a master of that domain. When they know that you're the one who knows that vertical, and even though that micro vertical, meaning within insurance, you know the specific processes that maybe the next business over doesn't know, that's, that's the path that I believe. You can grow from.

So I think it's in Crossing the Chasm, they talk about like a bowling pin strategy of, you know, if you dominate one niche, then there are others near it that there's transferable skills and transferable expertise. And he actually, I think, defines it as saying unless you're winning 80% of the deals in sort of your specific marketplace, and you might define that by size of company and specific industry subsector or whatever it is. Until you're winning something like 80% of the deals in a given year, you shouldn't expand into the next, you know, sort of bowling pin to knock over because you haven't really established enough dominance in that particular area. But then you can build from strength and leverage all of your Expertise as well as, you know, sort of case studies and testimonials from that industry moving into the new one.

Exactly. And now obviously we're talking a lot about what we, I'm sure since you're mentioning several books here, blue oceans, right? We're talking about red oceans right now, right? We're talking about industries that have been matured and, you know, there's a lot of different players that are, that exist there. And so that's where you may want to compete. And so I'm a fan of going into red oceans. There's obviously a whole other theory there of blue oceans and we're gonna leave that aside for the sake of this conversation. But yes, for more mature markets, that's the way. And to this day, you know, it is very competitive, but when you are able to add value, there's a lot on the other side. When we do land a big customer, it's very, You know, beneficial for both of us. It's lucrative for us and it's beneficial for the client. We see a lot of value. So it is a tough, you know, for those looking to start out and get into something similar, it may seem daunting, but you know, you can land those few smaller clients that you, that maybe a smaller engagement in the beginning. But as you grow, there's a natural evolution to this and you get more knowledge and you get more, you know, whatever that is, collateral, white papers that you can write in subsector industry. tools you build out and you'll naturally progress and become more attractive to the next tier up of customers.

Yeah.

So, but back to your point about how I started this out and maybe why I started this out. Why I started this out was, you know, probably a bigger, is a pretty big question, but I'll just say, you know, I just felt when I was in management consulting, I was giving it everything and then some, like I was very, you know, ambitious as a lot of people are. but I really wanted to take control over the whole project and over my own destiny. And I just found it very frustrating that I had to wait so long for everything to get done and even get promoted and run these things. And a friend challenged me. He's like, if you think you could do this project better, you know, then why don't you try that, right? And I was like, okay, he's onto something here, right? And so I had a few friends that own other businesses, consulting companies. Some of my best friends own Just coincidentally own like, you know, somewhat similar businesses. So I picked their brains a little bit, even, you know, probably a little too much. And, you know, ask them, yeah, annoy them a little bit. And I'm sure I still owe them all quite a bit of, you know, some fancy whiskey at some point. But they were really instrumental in helping me to pave the way. But the actual moment that I started the business was an interesting story. It's from another book. I feel like it's a theme we keep bringing up here. But I read a book called Dream by Gurbaksh Chahal.

Okay.

He ended up having an interesting, a very impactful story about how when he was, you know, his family came here very poor from India. Like his dad worked in the postal office. They came here with nothing and he wanted to, you know, get his dad out of the postal service because he saw his dad was just like physically in pain and he was like 10 or 11 years old and he gets this idea to start a business and his voice hadn't even matured yet, but he was like deepening his voice to try to figure out ways to like sell things. And he comes across this way to like sell advertising services and he calls both sides of the business, the potential customers and then the people who would deliver. And eventually after, you know, months of trying this idea, he lands somebody, a customer who wanted these services and then he has to scramble to try to deliver on that and he finds somebody who could You know who was like a marketer who could do that, and the guy was like in London. Long story short, he flies out to London, and he's like the guy's like dude, you're like eleven years old. What are you talking about? And he's like please just trust me. I got this whole business plan. Ends up creating this company that sells to Google for like twenty million dollars. You can look him up. Sold a couple businesses, but I took that premise, and I was like okay, I remember this book. I'm in consulting. I wanna do something on my own. And so I did that. I actually called up a friend who was at a marketing agency, who was at IBM previously, but went to a marketing agency and worked for, you know, another agency and they were building the mobile app Friends. And I was like, can I bid on this app? Like, I've got a company now. And he liked me because we like working together. And then I called up another group of engineers that I knew just like randomly through a friend. I was like, If I win this, will you guys fulfill this for me? And they're like, yeah, we will. And so I started working on that proposal for months, and it was like a multi-seven-figure or six-figure contract for the Friends mobile app. I quit everything. It looked like we were gonna sign it legal, everything. Even had a few other irons in the fire. I didn't end up closing it, and I was like kind of. Devastated for a little while, but I ended up just, you know, realizing I set the wheels in motion to get this consulting thing going and I had a bunch of other tiny clients and little by little, you know, we'll fast forward over the years, but grew into, you know, what it is today. And we've had clients as big as some of the biggest names in finance. Well, I'd say on the higher level, we've had some, you know, I don't know if I can reveal any of their specific names, but Some of the biggest like mid-market, you know, banks, credit unions, we've worked with them at least.

That's great. That's a great story. And you and I were chatting a little bit earlier about how, you know, sort of this evolution of, you know, going from you're out there hustling, you know, finding deals and hustling to find, you know, fulfillment partners that you can bring them together and really sort of add that value as an entrepreneur and then growing to the place of You know, working with some of the biggest names in your sector. How did you, you know, I know a lot of our listeners are, you know, they're at a place where they're just, they're running crazy. They're wearing all the hats in the organization and they're thinking about, you know, how do they scale themselves? How do they, how do they get to that next level without just, you know, burning themselves to the ground? Talk to us a little bit about how, how you accomplished that.

Well, that's, uh, that conversation can go for hours, but it's an interesting subject and it's, um, one that is, uh, such a, such an interesting one. Where do I even begin with that? So in the early days, early, early, early days, it was just me and my phone and Google trying to call, cold call. Hey, do you guys need, you know, we're doing like random apps, right? Like, do you want me to build you a mobile app? It was just All I was just trying to be a mini IBM digital consulting company. It was so brutal, and then I found somebody to help me do sales, and it was just like you know me and one other person, and it was extremely extremely difficult. But you know one thing led to another. I mean, you know I did end up landing a customer. It took me seven months to get the first customer that was. you know, paying me like regularly. I got some little like tiny deals, like one-off, and I was this close to quitting. And in fact, my dad and my sister had an intervention with me. They're like, you've gone this long and, you know, you're like, you're not doing well psychologically. Uh, like, just give this up, right? Like, you're not that kind of guy. And I was— and then they made me sign something. If you don't close, you know, $10,000 or $20,000— I know it was In fact, my wife framed this because I wrote it and it was like $20,000 by this month, just quit. And I was like, damn it, he's right, you know, I'm just gonna quit this. And the next— I was at the gym the next week and my old boss called me up and he's like, do you still have that consulting company? I was like, yeah. He's like, I need you to start next week. And then there you go, history, right? The rest is history. Uh, and so it was just about being persistent and just My message kept getting better the more reps I got with those phone calls and my slide decks got better and better and my offerings got better. And it probably, I'm still, you know, 5 years later, I'm on deck number 2,000. I'm constantly editing these things, right? And there's a big team behind. I don't even know. Now there's a team doing all this. I don't do it.

Right.

Not a big team. We're still relatively, we're still growing, but You know, the point is, it's just if you just, if you know what you want and you stick to it and keep iterating at it, you're gonna just get better and better, and your message is gonna resonate eventually. You're gonna be so good, they're gonna be like, yeah, this guy knows what he's doing, right? And so, Yeah. So eventually, to answer your question though about how do we get out of the like one-person shop into multiple, the story kind of, you know, zigzags a little bit, but I'll say There is an excellent book called Scaling Up. I know you've read it. And in the podcast that one of the guys, I can't remember which episode it is right now, but he describes that, and Scaling Up goes into this in depth too, that there are different levels of a business, that the evolution of a 1-person shop and then the next one is like a 5-person shop and 5 to 15 is an interesting one, right? And so I'll just say that because We're still around that level. We've gotten a little bit bigger than that. But so like level 1 to 5 is super interesting because, you know, I was the only person doing sales, marketing, delivery was con— so I would say I right away I contracted to some people. So I was never only one, I guess. But to go from 1 to 5 people is completely the biggest change because, you know, now you've got individual roles. Where it's like you are just doing sales, you only own sales, and then obviously it'll bleed over, but that's what you're responsible for. So that's where the magic of entrepreneurship and business really comes along, is like, can you build a team that believe in you and are all, you know, um, you know, what is the point of coming together with for a company, right? Right. And it's all have like a mutual goal to build something. Some service or product. And Elon Musk just said this in a podcast recently, is like the inputs should be worth less than, or the inputs should be less than the outputs. You should be able to make a profit from that, right? So, but that kind of like evolution from 1 to 5 people, it seems like it's quick, but that's sometimes the hardest thing where most businesses stay as a solopreneur. But what it is, is like, can you build a team? Can you build relationships and sell the vision, right? As that first individual to bring people around you, it, you know, that's sometimes a pretty hard thing to get through to.

That's really interesting. Well, and you've talked about, you know, going through a pretty recent and pretty large-scale change as part of that scale where you brought in a partner and someone that, you know, maybe was a little bigger than you in the space that, you know, had been an advisor before. I'm sure a lot of our listeners Have, you know, sort of either toyed with the idea or, you know, thought about, well, would it make sense to bring in a partner? Or they've even had offers and they've evaluated it. Talk to us a little bit about, you know, sort of the process you went through and thinking through if this was the right move for your business and how you ultimately sort of made that decision. And then, you know, what have been some of the results from that?

I originally started this thing out with one or two people that I, that I wanted to partner with, but I couldn't wait. You know, I, I was like, I'm just, I need to start this thing. I'm, I'm done with the corporate world, right? I feel like I belong in entrepreneurship and I'm gonna do this. If you guys are gonna join me, let's do it. A couple of the friends that I asked had, uh, in fact, some of them went to business school with They had very good jobs. You know, you're talking like the best companies out there. And it was real. And they were like, I just don't know, you know, like I'm on this path at whatever, Google or whatever. And, you know, there's some of my super close friends. So it wasn't anything like I wasn't offended by it, but I got, I understood the point. So I started for years by myself as the main guy. I would not recommend to do that unless you absolutely have to, which I had to. I was like, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm not gonna delay this any longer. And I got a little lucky. I landed some big clients early on that funded the whole thing that got me through this far without it. But I would not recommend starting a business personally on your own. It's too much. Those 5 roles, you know, when we went from the stage 1 to 5, I'd much rather start this and pick something that you like or are good at, hopefully both. You know, pick one person to do sales and marketing, the other person to run operations. That's really how you want to divide the business up. Sales and delivery, and then one person does one, one person does other, and you just own those things, right? Come together, meet every day, and you know your findings and all that. But I would much life has gotten a lot better with people around me. You know the my stress has gone down ten x since that's happened.

No more contracts, no more interventions with the family.

My wife is just like, oh my god! Your just stress levels have just gone down precipitously since you brought in a few people to help you out because. You know, I mean, you could just just take a quick you know snapshot of like what my day used to look like with closing the deal and then payroll comes in and then marketing and then the sales guy comes in this engineer. I don't deal with that stuff anymore, right? Like that's given to one person; they handle it or maybe two people. They handle that now. I hear you know obviously still having ownership. I hear about those things and I help out where I can, but I'm not responsible for that thing only. So, yeah.

So what have been, you know, someone that is in a place where either they've, they've, they've gone out on, maybe they're on their own or maybe with a partner so that they're not only on their own, but they're, they're slugging away and they're not, they're not quite serving some of the biggest, you know, companies in the, in the space, but they would like to. What would be You know, sort of advice that you would give to them, or what was some advice that you got as you were, you know, in those early stages that would be valuable?

Do you mean from what perspective? Sorry, from company building or like just being, you know, company building persistent?

Yeah. How to get to that next stage of growth. You talked to, you know, you said you got lucky. I tend to think that, you know, luck is the combination of, you know, preparation and opportunity. So it's not just luck, it's also, you know, perspiration and preparation. But what would be the bit of advice that you would give to a fellow entrepreneur who's maybe a couple of steps behind where you are but aspiring to be?

It's a tough Like, I'm not gonna say it was advice. It's more like a lesson that I learned was that like it's kind of toeing the line between if you have a personality like mine, right, where you're just like you gotta start this thing and you're like go go go and I'm ambitious. I'm gonna figure this out on my own. That isn't always the best personality for team building, right? Because I want to. I was just like. I'm like a wrecking ball. I've gotta get this thing going right in the early stages and whatever it takes, I'm going to do it. But what I found was, um, in order to move a lot further faster, I had to tone that down a little bit and be able to work with other people. And, you know, my, my partner now says like, you gotta be able to trust these people. Um, you know, uh, uh, and, you know, they may only be able to do the job, uh, sometimes, you know, 80 to 90%. Right? And that is enough, right? I happen to have now brought in, you know, after, you know, whatever role it is— engineer, project manager— I brought in many people over the years, and now I could recognize what's a good version of that. In the early days, I just kind of could recognize 80-90%. If it's 80— if it's lower than 80%, you probably don't want them there. If it's greater than that, then you have a star. If they're greater than 90%, you have a rock star on your team. Yeah, rock stars on the team Are what move the business forward, right? It's the people that don't need that, don't need as much handholding, that are driving forward, that are driven. And so what does this all come down to? It's team building and being able to be surrounded by good people. And so what I've gone through personally is a bit of an evolution of like this individual contributor by myself. I mean, individual business owner, like just, you know, on this warpath of creating this business. But it was very hard to get very far past a few clients without building a team. And I had to kind of scale back that, I don't know, whatever that fire was a little bit and give some autonomy to the people around me. And that took a little while to get used to. But after having done that, life has gotten a lot better and it feels like we're a team moving forward. I'm part of a team now. I'm not just like—

Right.

One guy and it feels way better than those early days which felt almost like I was at war.

It's interesting that you say that because, you know, one of the challenges that we see founders and entrepreneurs dealing with is, you know, sort of this, you described it as, you know, sort of being at war of, you know, trying to manage lots of different people and we even see that there's even sort of differing sort of perspectives or priorities where someone on the, you know, marketing team might want to invest one place, someone on sales might want to invest somewhere else. And one of the things that we've seen be really successful is by implementing systems, then you get to where you're not sort of managing a person or like wagging your finger at, well, you didn't do a good job on this, or, you know, you didn't deliver the results that we wanted. But instead, You're building a system, and then that person is working on the system, and then you and that person can together collaborate on improving the system. And it becomes a much more sort of objective of how do we make the business better? And it's not subjective of, well, you did bad. It's instead, well, the system let us down if we didn't deliver the outcome that we wanted. And then you can, you know, invest together in improving the system without people getting their feelings hurt. Because it's the business owns the system. It's not a particular person, you know, failing to do their job or not, which has been interesting to see.

Well, what I'm trying to think of, what, so what's an example of a system that you guys have implemented? I'm curious.

Yeah, for sure. So, you know, for example, you might have a system around qualifying leads. And so You might have, you might be getting a volume of leads coming in through, you know, advertising that you're doing or word of mouth or advertising is, you know, is pretty typical and word of mouth are pretty common. And so the system, you know, a lot of companies just looks like they come in, their email address, phone number is passed off to sales. And now it's a lead. But you've got marketing saying we did a good job because we brought in all these leads and you've got sales saying I can't hit my quota because all these leads are garbage. And so that can create a lot of animosity and friction between those 2 teams. And what we've done is implement systems for sort of qualifying where we'll build an ideal customer profile and then that really defines what does a really good customer look like? Not only firmographics of like, well, they're this size company and, you know, they have this many employees or they have, you know, sort of this many revenues, but also the context that they're operating in, like, well, they've just gotten, you know, Series A investment and they're trying to scale. And that's the need that they're coming to us to help them solve. Or they've, you know, just lost an employee and they're trying to create some efficiency and that's the need they're trying to solve. You know, with our software or whatever that they're trying to implement. And so by having that ideal customer profile and that includes things like that context, then when marketing applies that system to qualifying the leads before handing it off to sales, there's a lot more sort of unity and continuity within the organization.

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And a lot of that happens. No, that was well said. And a lot of that happens. So in our space, a lot of that happens with most of the people because we're in, again, going back to the niche conversation, most of the people we bring on have done this for a while.

Yeah.

So, you know, it's more about just like they know the industry, they know the space, they may be, you know, whatever, pick a role, engineering or something. They've probably done it for 5. We don't really bring in At what the stage we're in right now, and this could be for another conversation later, is do you bring in junior people or more senior people?

Sure.

And so we've kind of gotten away from junior people for now, like in the stage that we're in, because we're in that, you know, 15-ish kind of like range, right? 5 to 15-ish kind of range, trying to move up from there. But everyone knows what they're doing. They've done it for a little while. And the processes are what kind of glue it all together, are the glue for everything, right? Because that's how SM Innovation works specifically, our way of doing things, our niches of doing things. So it ties it all together.

Yeah, that's right. Well, this has been a great conversation, Nima. Thank you so much for joining us and sharing some of your insights with our audience. So for anyone in our audience that, you know, that They've, they've bought the Legos, they've got Salesforce, but they're now trying to figure out how to, how to bring it all together to build that Empire State Building that SM Innovations can help them do. How do they get in touch with you?

Yeah, thanks. First of all, thanks for having me, Mark. It's, it's always great chatting with you, man. So they can get in touch. I think we'll probably put the— I'll send you the contact details. Yeah, they could find us on LinkedIn, SM Innovations. They could also email us at hello@sminnovations.co or even email me directly, nimad@sminnovations.co, if they have a need for something. Anything Salesforce related or Tableau related and anything— we have a few other partnerships too, but those 2 are our main niches. We'd love to help out. So yeah, once again, thanks.

Fantastic. Thanks so much, Nima. I really appreciate it.

All right.

Cheers. Thank you for joining this episode of the B2B Growth Blueprint podcast. We hope you've gained insights to grow your business. If you enjoyed this discussion, please rate, comment, like on your favorite platform and share to others who will find it useful. Do you Do you know a CEO, founder, or leader at an early-stage B2B services, tech, or SaaS company who would like to be a guest and share their story? Send us a note. Let's schedule a conversation. Thank you, Mark.