The Secret to Scaling Your Business with Systems with Michelle Nedelec

Welcome to the B2B Growth Blueprint podcast, where we talk with entrepreneurs, founders, and leaders at B2B services, tech, and SaaS companies to learn the systems and processes they've used to create success for their business. We'll also learn from marketing and sales experts to provide insights to help you grow your business. I'm your host, Mark Osborne, and the podcast is brought to you by Modern Revenue Strategies and their 10X ROI B2B Growth Guarantee. Schedule a free diagnostic call to learn the fastest path to double your B2B revenues in just 90 days. Hello and welcome to another episode of the B2B Growth Blueprint Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Osborne. And today I'm very excited to welcome my guest, Michelle Nedeljk. Now I'm gonna read her bio to make sure I get it right. So she's an international bestselling author, an expert in entrepreneurialism, and the founder of Awareness Strategies. And she's got a lot of different, uh, things going on. We're gonna talk about her latest venture today. She's run her own series of companies since 1995, and since '03 has been helping sales reps, entrepreneurs, executives, to continually double their profits and revenues. Not only does she have what it takes to help her clients build million-dollar businesses, she's done it a lot of times. So I know you're gonna gain a lot of insight from her. She particularly loves to talk about business growth and proven systems, which if you listen to the podcast, you know, that's a, a hot point for, for me as well. So, following in the wise words of, you know, Michael E. Gerber and The E-Myth Revisited, a business set up with a franchise model, but a low barrier to entry creates stronger, faster, and more successful entrepreneurs. She's also got a great sense of humor and a love for stilettos. So I'm not sure if we're gonna make it all the way to stilettos today, but we'll definitely get a taste of her humor. So Michelle, thanks so much for joining us.

Well, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Yeah, absolutely. So that was a mouthful and you've obviously got a long history of success. Tell us about what you're up to today and what you're really working on.

Nice. Well, we've always been about helping entrepreneurs be able to grow their businesses and through all the transitions and businesses that we've had, To me, it's how do we make business easier for people? Because we as human beings tend to complicate things and we don't have to complicate things. In fact, what we need to do is simplify them, figure out what's working, do more of that, figure out what's not working and eliminate the barriers to business. And we just want to be able to do that with people who are kind of have the dream, have the passion, have the drive, but are sick and tired of being sick and tired. It's time to go make money and have a lot of fun with it.

Interesting. So how did— you've obviously had sort of an interesting path to get there. Tell us a little bit about that and kind of what your journey looked like that, you know, kind of led you to working on this specifically.

Absolutely. So in about 2003, we started working with a gentleman by the name of Bob Proctor. For those of you who don't know him, started teaching people about the mind and how it works and how your mind sets you up and creates your success. And through those years, we also developed a company called Success Therapy, which was getting rid of the blocks that stop people from becoming successful, self-imposed almost always, and being able to understand what those are and how to run a business more effectively, more efficiently without having those obstacles in the way. And along the way, we transitioned through to digital marketing because we found that people in our industry, speakers, authors were having a real issue getting online. And then we found out, well, everybody's having an issue getting online. It's not just people that have a passion in one area of business and lack the acumen to be able to get online in another. It was very new and nobody knew how to do it. So we did that for a substantial period of time and now I'm coming full circle and going, okay, how do we get the digital marketing and the personal development and this all in one to be able to help business owners to be more successful in business?

Wow, that's really interesting. And That sort of arc and as you said, sort of that full circle coming back is really an interesting, you know, sort of take on that. So one of the things that we talked about in your bio and that's, you know, really a source of passion for me is this idea of, you know, systems set you free. And as we were chatting a little bit before, you know, we talk a lot here about how, you know, systems set you free in kind of 3 different ways. Like, One is it's freedom from conflict, because if you've got a system that's, you know, helping you make decisions, it's not one person's opinion versus another. And it's another area of freedom is freedom from worry, because if you've got a system with leading indicators and some KPIs, you kind of know you're going to hit your sort of revenue forecasts and things that you're working on. And the third is just sort of this like freedom from frustration of like not knowing how to prioritize, because again, if you've got a system that helps you evaluate different, you know, potential paths forward, then, you know, it's not just you making a decision by, you know, sticking your head out the window to see if it's raining. But instead, you've got sort of like a data-driven framework for that. How do— what are some ways that you've seen systems be, you know, really vital in helping companies either you advise or that you've been in leadership positions with? How have you seen systems be important for growth?

I think one of the biggest things that people have to understand is once upon a time, computer systems came into play and people going, oh, I need a computer to make my business better. Oh, I need software to make my computer or my business run better. Oh, I need— and it was kind of the newest, latest, and greatest, whatever came out from the tech world. That's the thing that was going to make their business better. And what they need to understand now is that it's not about having that thing. It's not about that software. It's about having an integrated system whereby all of this information is allowing your entire company to speak together. in order to speak a comprehensive language, in order to be talking about the same person in the same way. Because if companies still have silos of data and accounting has their own software and sales has their own software, marketing has their own software, you're not looking at the client, your ideal client's ideal journey. And a lot of people that are listening to business podcasts or whatever may start to get a little tainted about the whole ideal client's ideal journey, but it has to be understood. It can't be a, oh, I've heard of that and yeah, I get it. You don't get it until you're implementing it, and if you're not implementing it, then you don't get it. So in order to be able to really understand why this is so fundamental is because it starts with Everything from when you go after leads, what segment are you going into? What platforms are you on? Where are you spending your marketing dollars to get leads? And what KPIs are you using in order to think that this data is useful or productive to the company? Because as soon as it moves into sales, you know, your salespeople know if those leads were successful in hitting their requirements for a good lead. And Once upon a time it was like, oh yeah, we can get you 10,000 leads or we can get you 10,000 likes on your Facebook ads. Like, great, but who cares?

Right.

It doesn't get me anything. At the end of the day, we need sales and we don't just need sales. We don't want just people who breathe and have a credit card that can pay for the thing. We actually have ideal clients that are ideal fits for us. And we know this because you have less churn, you have less higher expenses, and accounting is starting to look at it going, you know, yeah, we had a lot of sales, but We got a lot of chargebacks. Yeah. And that's not reflecting well on, you know, our merchant account. And then our expenses are going up and, and, and we start to look at the entire system of business and how does this whole thing transpire. So a lot of the CEOs, we need to have a more in-depth conversation about this is not a tactical choice you're making in your business. This is a fundamental conversation. to the structure of your business, to the longevity of your business. And a lot of people are making this decision too late when they're thinking about selling their company. They hire somebody to come in and they go, okay, so what systems are you using? How are you doing this? And they're like, what? Why does this matter? Because it matters 100% to the kind of people who buy businesses and want the systems in place because They're not going into business because it's a passion project. They're not buying your business because your business is a passion project to them. They're buying it because it solves a fundamental issue. And those systems have to be in place with the right KPIs and with the right determinants in order to understand how valuable that business is to sell. So even if you're not selling your business, you still want it to run that way so that you can decide to be, you know, Richard Branson and run 18 companies if you want to. He does not. run businesses the same way you do if you're still in there and you're not systemized. It's just not gonna happen.

So, so, so many great things to unpack in there. Uh, and, and so I'm gonna— one of them that you, you hit on that I think is, is so really vital, especially in the marketing and sales space, which is, you know, for so long it was whatever the latest innovation was from technology was, you know, probably something that you were gonna need and that could be even potentially transformative for your business. And so there's a whole generation of people, especially in the marketing space, that kind of, you know, chased a marketing hack and then, you know, maxed out, you know, found the next good one, maximized it, and then, you know, went to the next one. And they've had, you know, a 20-plus-year career of success doing that because they were the first people to move into search and search, you know, gave you that sort of intent data that didn't exist before and this new platform. And then they were the first people to move into social that, you know, gave you access to a wider audience and all of this, you know, sort of targeting based on interests, or they were the first person to, you know, kind of integrate their datasets. So all those different things were kind of tactical and kind of, you know, growth hacks. But now it's really impossible to keep up with the pace of change. And I use the example, you probably know the Marketing Technology Association, they do a great conference. Scott Brinker and that team, they published this, like, you know, cloud of all of the different logos of companies that are in the marketing technology space. And when they first started doing it in, like, you know, 2010, there were like 150 companies on, maybe even as late as 2014, if I'm remembering correctly. This year, there's over 10,000 companies on that landscape, all of which are like, we are the magic bullet. If you just implement our technology or buy our data, then it's gonna be, you know, the transformative thing. And it's just not true. Like today, you really have to have those systems, and then you come back and layer in a piece of technology or an additional data source that allows you to connect all of those things together, just like you said, so that you can, you know, really bring it together and, and have it work in a cohesive way. It's not just a new tool that, that's gonna be this transformative impact on your business. And you also talked about, and the quote from, you know, Michael Gerber that you talked about of this idea of, you know, not just sort of building a business from the seat of your pants or the skin of your teeth, but instead like building it purposefully with systems, like creates so much more peace of mind and also makes it so much more of an asset that you can sell instead of, you know, just sort of something that you do and sort of building a job for yourself.

Oh yeah, we clearly found each other's soapbox because once you get somebody like I was talking about how the systems really start to modify the business such that you're success-oriented so that you're focused on what's working so that it becomes an arena or an era of not what is the greatest thing and how do I kind of solve this problem? It's we have this problem, but what's the endgame? What am I trying to achieve? And finding the solution that achieves that, that piece to the puzzle. So it's not just about the, oh, we need more leads, we need more tactics. It's, well, what about those leads? Are they quality leads? Are they leads that want, need, and can afford our products and services and that we want to work with in order to be able to move forward on them. And it becomes a conversation that you're having with your entire company as opposed to a solution that you're either dropping on them or that they're begging for going, oh, we just need this thing and that'll make our lives easier. It's not that anymore. The conversation has moved on and it's time to kind of get it in place that those systems and those structures allow you to not only grow. And here's another word that's driving me crazy lately is scale, because a lot of people don't understand what what the word scaling is. You can't go from startup to scale. You have to hit the growth phase first. And the growth phase is understanding what is working, what isn't working, what's broken, what's not breaking, who's the right person to fit in this. And you have to go through that awkward adolescent stage where you're a little gangly in places in your business. And, you know, you can't always run up the stairs because you're tripping over the feet that are a little too big and you haven't got used to yet. So that you can go into the scaling phase because if companies that are in the growth phase get, you know, 10x the amount of orders in, they can't deal with it. Things are gonna break and they don't have the right operations in place in order to be able to function at that level. So scaling is being able to 10x. Growth is preparing yourself for that phase because when you plan for it, it will come.

Yeah. Well, and you make such a good point there too about, you know, the idea of you don't just need more leads, like you need the right leads that are not only, you know, as you talked about earlier, gonna be profitable, but also, you know, really sort of align with your long-term vision for the business and serve as a source of referral and testimonial so you can really dominate the marketplace. You know, we talk a lot about sort of the 80/20 rule. And everybody knows that, you know, 80% of your revenues comes from just 20% of your customers. Well, if you think that only, you know, 1 out of 20 of your leads becomes a customer, that, you know, ratio of, you know, what percentage of your leads or prospects actually become your best customers is even more magnified. And so if you don't have those systems in place to identify those best customers or best potential customers and then swarm all of your resources on those to win those, your competitors are. And so then you're kind of stuck with the table scraps that your competitors don't want. And that's actually even worse than no clients at all because you're left with the people that, you know, they want to slash prices because they don't really believe in what you're doing. And so they, you know, want the lowest possible price for it because they just don't get it. Or they want you to customize, you know, to what they need, not what the market wants. So that pulls you further behind your competitors. And because you're having to customize for one particular customer or 5 particular customers in 5 directions instead of, you know, sort of unified, you know, product vision. And then they'll churn out before they ever, you know, generate a referral or generate a profit for you. So when you've got those kinds of businesses, In, you know, or those kinds of clients coming into your business, it creates this death spiral that you can't keep up with your competitors. You can't, you know, generate revenues from the clients you got and you can't grow. And it's really, you know, it's worse than having no clients at all. And so we, you know, talk a lot about having those systems that attract the right prospects and then being able to score those and identify them.

Absolutely, it does. It's a To me, it's an ongoing conversation that we're gonna be having about kind of what is the right solution for clients to be able to market their products and services. I mean, you take a company like Canva and they started off as, you know, digital graphics designers and going, hey, we can make your life a little easier. And most of the graphic designers were like, it's a little too simplified and not really our thing. And they realized that graphic designers weren't really their market. It was the non-graphic designers that was really their market and going, hey, are you sick and tired of trying to get this stuff done? Come on in and just play with it and get it done. They have now moved into the e-commerce realm because they understand that e-commerce is willing to throw a lot of money at a problem in order to be able to get all of their non-graphics people to be able to just produce stuff that they need to and have it on brand and have somebody manage those, that task activity rather than doing the thing. And a lot of people are really afraid of that, going, oh, we can't have, you know, systems making our lives easier because what will these people do? It's like, well, they'll do what they need to do to get the job done. That's what they're going to do. And they'll probably have a lot more fun with it and a lot, be a lot easier for them. And it's being able to not be afraid of that change. And have those people with the experience in the right positions in your company to monitor those systems so that, you know, everybody's on the same page.

Yeah. Well, and you call out something that's really interesting too, which is, you know, this idea of pivoting. And oftentimes, you know, we talk with a lot of kind of early stage companies that they're like, am I pivoting or am I chickening out? You know what I mean? Like, they're sort of like torn between, well, did I really get enough feedback from the customer to know that's the direction that they want? And they, they, they get sort of in their heads about it. And, and we see that again, if you define a system for, we're gonna talk to this many people and we're gonna, you know, work on this, you know, hypothesis for this amount of time and then we're gonna have a check-in. Gives them so much more peace of mind to say, hey, this quarter we know what our marching orders are. We know what we're trying to do. We're gonna do it. At the end of the quarter, there'll be time to evaluate, hey, should we pivot or should we tweak a little bit or should we refine that customer that we're going after or that solution that we're providing? But folks that don't have that system instead are just up all night, every night pulling their hair out like, oh, am I doing the right thing or should I? be doing this over here, or what should I be doing? And it's really that commitment to systems that can set you free.

No, absolutely it is. I— you're preaching to the choir. I cannot emphasize enough how much having those systems in place— and it's not about just having a system in place now, it's about putting the system that works into place. And you really need to sit down and talk to somebody and go, okay, How do we stop the, the bleeding right now? And how do we move forward into this arena so that, you know, we're, we're playing hardball? It's like, it's nice getting a couple of easy lobs down and down, but we want to play in the big leagues.

So here's potentially a controversial topic. There is a train of thought that Some people are systems people. They, it's sort of in their nature and they get it. And, you know, the whatever experience they've had that's brought them up to this point, you know, has them in that mindset. And other people just aren't. They're more free flow, divergent thinking. And, and so they don't always see the value in, in systems. And there's a train of thought that If what you do is bring systemization to businesses, these people over here might really need you, but they're never gonna appreciate you. So you should kind of not seek them out. But the alternative point of view is they need you more than anyone. And so they potentially could, you know, value you more than the people over here that have more of a systems mindset and can, you know, kind of limp their way through. What's your thought on that sort of trade-off of working with non-systems people and helping them see the light versus, you know, helping systems people get a little better at doing what they already know they should be doing?

I think when it comes to business, you have to understand that it's a team effort. Some of the most successful people in business are ex-pro athletes. And the reason they are is because they understand the whole team mentality. Even if somebody is a runner, They don't just run. They have somebody that is taking into account their physical health, their emotional health, their nutritional health, their strides, and how they're working out on a daily basis. It's never just about that one thing. And if you want to run a business that runs smoothly with or without you, and I'm totally cool if you want to be in there every day kind of Overmanaging, you go right ahead, but you're gonna be overmanaging a successful company if you have the systems in place. And the system requires, you know, all aspects of business. It's like saying, oh, I don't really get spreadsheets and math, so we're not doing the accounting thing.

Yeah.

Yeah, actually you are. And, you know, without that, the government kind of steps in and goes, no, you're not doing any business. And if that's your choice, then, you know, if you wanna be in business, you're gonna have to accept there's gonna be accounting, there's going to be marketing, there's going to be sales, there's going to be fulfillment. element. There are at least 5 different arenas in business, and you have to be able to play in all of them regardless of whether you're selling finger painting to 5-year-olds or you're selling bioquantum mechanics to NASA. Like, it, it's irrelevant. There are fundamental principles in business, and you have to have all of them functioning within the same realm at the same time in order to be able to smoothly escalate that business.

Yeah, I, and I think that's a great way to see it. And oftentimes you see a lot of really successful companies are the ones that can marry a person that might be that divergent thinking, that sort of, you know, visionary role versus that person that's that convergent thinking and that systems-oriented sort of orchestration role. And to bring both of them together and really strike that balance is where A lot of businesses really find, you know, ideal success.

Absolutely. And when everybody understands that their job isn't just to be really good at what they do, it's to be able to articulate how good they are at what they're doing to other people around them, then that's when you start to be able to harness somebody who's really good at the creative thinking. And then how do we systemize that creativity? Now you're talking magic.

Yeah, that's right. Well, and I also, I love that you, you know, quoted, had, you know, Michael Gerber in your bio because, you know, the idea of the E-Myth, the entrepreneurial myth of like, you know, it's like the, you know, old managerial textbooks would talk about sort of like the great man theory, like, you know, one person does it all. And I think American culture really loves that myth. of that there's like, there's one person that, you know, they're the idea person and the execution person, and they've got endless energy and, you know, boundless resources and all those things. And that really is a myth. Like, if you look at, you know, the companies that are successful, statistically speaking, it's the ones that build a team. It's the ones that recognize their individual talents and then supplement where they have gaps with other teammates. So they can really, you know, sort of build that team and grow it to the success that it can be.

I mean, for sure. It's like you never see a successful large company that doesn't have a CEO, a COO, a CMO, a CIO. Like, there's a reason all these divisions exist in business. And it's really a matter of you can't be everything all the time. So which one do you despise the most? Get rid of it. And let's get that one off your hands first because you're going to be much more creative in an industry that you excel at, even if that industry is tech or if that industry is accounting. You can be really good at it creatively and be just more up on being able to create solutions if you're getting rid of that thing that's been driving you crazy.

Yeah.

We're talking about kind of the one-man show running the operations. I can't tell you how many people I talk to who go, I just need a mini me to take care of all this stuff. And I'm like, no, you don't. Because if you have a mini me, your cost per hour is way too high.

Yeah.

This job, you're doing right now is like a $10 an hour job. We can splice that off and get somebody wicked good at it who's doing it for $10 an hour. And then you start making the $1,000 an hour because you're able to focus on the thing that you do epically well.

Yeah.

So when it comes to starting to partition off those spaces, then it really comes down to, okay, tactically, what are you doing in a day and who can we pay to do it, you know, per hour and/or whatever. They're really good at it, but they're still not getting paid as much as you do because you are the creative and the one that's running the company.

Yeah, there's a great book Seth Godin wrote called The Dip. And in there he talks about how we really live in sort of a winner-take-all kind of environment right now because the difference between number 1 and number 2 might be 50% of the you know, sort of revenues in the market. And the difference between number 2 and number 10 is, you know, infinite. And then outside of number 10, like you kind of don't exist where, you know, we don't really have this really well distributed long fat tails. And so he talks in there about, you know, how companies should be focused on, you know, doing what they can be the best in the world at. And I think the same thing applies to people. Instead of trying to, you know, shore up your weaknesses and be good at everything, people really find that, you know, they achieve a lot more success when they find what they can be the best in the world at and then just focus on that and then, you know, build the systems that allow them to have other people plug in on those other areas instead of trying to do everything for everybody.

I think there's a very interesting Fortune 500 conversation Sure. I think some of us just have to be kind of playing ball. I mean, when it comes to, you know, maybe the cell phone industry, right? I mean, BlackBerry quickly discovered there is no, there is no bronze medal in the cell phone industry. But when it comes to the majority of us, like, you know, the plumbers, the accountants, the, the people that are making the systems operate, Do you really have to be the world's greatest accountant in order to be able to run a successful accounting firm? I don't think so. In fact, it would serve you negatively to have that kind of thinking. But you did touch on it, is what can you be the world's best at? And maybe it's just being you, because nobody else can be you. Nobody can express your talents. Nobody can can discover your talents and what you're good at. And nobody can have a conversation the way you have a conversation. And sometimes that's what our clients need is just to be heard by somebody who articulates themselves the way you do. And they feel comfortable in that arena and they really want to do business with you even though it's just getting our annual taxes done. It's like, yeah, but I like that person. I like having that conversation and I want to refer more people to them.

Yeah.

And When it's that kind of a nuance of what makes me special in business, and it's probably not how you run a spreadsheet, it's probably not how you do the thing, but you do have to systemize how you run the spreadsheet because when you hire people on, that's the part that, because it's not unique, that's the part that has to be systemized.

Yeah.

So then it brings us back to, okay, how do we How do we make this a well-oiled machine that functions with or without you? And we won't find that thing until we take the things that are obvious and start systemizing it and then start to nuance those finer points.

Yeah. So, so true. So true. So we could talk on this all day. Obviously, it's, as you said, we found our soapbox that we can both stand on. Tell us something you've got coming up on the horizon that you're excited about, Michelle.

Well, things I'm excited about are we are planning for a trip to Australia around Christmas. We're planning another trip to Greece and Italy in May on a cruise. And we're probably going to start doing excursions like this every 6 months or so. And we're looking for people who want to experience more in their lifestyle. It's like, I just want to go do my thing, have a lot of fun with it, find some awesome, amazing people to be able to enjoy business with. And, you know, we're at that point in life. So that's what I'm looking forward to. And those are the kinds of people I'm looking forward to hanging around with.

That's a, that's an exciting place to be for sure. So for any of our listeners that are interested in learning more about what you do and how you do it, how can they get in touch with you?

Absolutely. So awareness.business is our new funky website. Now, .com is not the only way to get there anymore. .business is a thing now. So awareness.business is an actual website. People can go in there and go, hey, I wanna check out more about this stuff, pop in your name and email, phone number, and we'll have a quick meeting and see if we're on the same page and we'll go have fun in Italy, Greece, or Australia or wherever together.

That's awesome. Well, Michelle, thanks so much for your time today. I really enjoyed it.

Awesome. I did too. Thank you.

All right. Talk to you soon. Thank you for joining this episode of the B2B Growth Blueprint podcast. We hope you've gained insights to grow your business. If you enjoyed this discussion, please rate, comment, like on your favorite platform, and share to others who will find it useful. Do you know a CEO, founder, or leader at an early-stage B2B services, tech, or SaaS company who would like to be a guest and share their story? Send us a note. Let's schedule a conversation.