Advocating for Yourself and Knowing When to Speak Up

Welcome to The In Between Podcast. I'm Astrid.

And I'm Alexis. And we're 2 best friends on a journey to living a fun, intentional life.

We know it's easier to share on a season of life once it's behind you, but what about when you're in the middle of the growth, confusion, and decision-making?

This lifestyle podcast is for the everyday gal who loves to travel, talk about business, relationships, fashion, and everything in between.

Hello friends, and Welcome back to season 2 of The In Between Podcast. I am one of your hosts, Astrid.

And the other half, Alexis.

And we are kicking things back off with communication this month. But first of all, we missed you so dang much, and we are so, so excited to just be back and be back to our in-betweens, be back to our themes, our real talks, our light talks, absolutely everything.

Yeah, same. I missed the pod deeply and missed like the weekly cadence of recording and talking and like putting things out and sharing and hearing from the community. Like, I missed it. So I'm so glad that we're back. And we've gotten a lot of questions. Like, we've done some Q&As from the audience and listeners, and we get a lot of questions around communication and how do I say this? How do I set boundaries? How do I handle like conflict or ask for what I need in my relationships or in my career? And we've never done a whole theme just on communication before. So we're like, this is a perfect theme to kick back off the pod after celebrating our 1-year anniversary.

Absolutely. And I feel like at first communication can be like, oh, I'm going to run away from this topic. I don't want to learn how to talk about everything that is going on in my life. And at the same time, a lot of the questions that we get or the things that we navigate in our lives the root of those conversations could be avoided if we just learned how to communicate what we need, communicate what we're going through, or communicate what we want in life.

Yeah.

And being able to get on the same page with the people that are so intimately intertwined in our lives. And I think it goes hand in hand in a journey of self-discovery. And then step 2 is being able to communicate those things that you discover about yourself, your wants, your needs, And desires to those around you. I love that.

I think that's a really beautiful distinction between like self-discovery and learning and being curious. And then once you discover and you figure out what it is that you want, being able to feel safe and confident to speak that into existence. And then on the other side of communication is action too.

Mm-hmm.

And so like when we're a part of self-advocacy and communicating, is in and of itself, we are taking action by speaking it out loud. And I think that's a really important step in the process of making anything happen, is thinking about it, getting clarity on it, and then you're talking about it, you're taking action on it. So I'm excited. Shall we— before we dig into deep, because we've prepped for this episode, we're very excited to dig in. Do you want to share our in-betweens?

Absolutely. Oh my gosh, there's a lot. I am currently in between. I'd say that I am arriving at a season in my entrepreneurial journey where I have officially healed from wanting to find balance in my schedule and just understanding that there is seasons and there's days.

Yeah.

There's days where I'm going to have to go 12 hours, 14 hours, And then I will commit to the next day resting as much as I possibly need for my body to recover. And so I think for a really long time in my entrepreneurial journey, I just felt very guilty for if I needed to sleep in on a Monday or if I needed to take extra time because it just felt off from everybody else's schedule.

Yeah.

When in reality, like I just worked, got like 60, 80 hours a week before. So I think that I have arrived at a point where I don't need to track that specific time. I am planning ahead a lot too, especially as a wedding photographer diving into wedding season. And so I have blocked out already specific dates like, okay, this weekend's going to be really heavy. Monday and Tuesday I'm off. And then I'm making the people around me hold me accountable to the days that I'm going to be say that I'm going to be off. And it's helped me to not— to say no to people that reach out for sessions right now. A lot of them will be reaching out soon for fall sessions. And just be clear, like, okay, remember how exhausted we felt last year when we like completely neglected that?

Yeah.

The tool that I was missing back then was actually scheduling my days off. And so that is where I'm at now. It feels really good. It feels not guilty to work some long days when I know that there's going to be rest involved as well. And it Is my new definition of balance for my entrepreneurial journey.

I love that. You sound like you have so much clarity on like what balance, rest, work, like the grind, like being able to have your version of this is how I work, not how like this is what an entrepreneurial like schedule should look like. And really just tailoring it to you. I think that's really beautiful. Like congratulations. I feel like so much of the journey is just like getting to a point where you're like, okay, This is my new normal and this is my work structure and this is what I've done to schedule for that and to make that happen and to make sure that it's still integrating the things in your life and lifestyle that you like, not just on the business side, but on the life side.

Absolutely. We did this so we could have more freedom, not less. And it's going to come with sacrifice, sweat, and tears. And at the same time, it comes with the things that we work hard for. So I am feeling grateful and yeah, I will report back after fall season how it went.

Let us know. When is your— are you done with fall season technically early to mid-November?

Yeah. So I schedule off my birthday weekend, which is November 11th. And so pretty much until that date, that's when I'll start slowing down afterwards. I have a few engagement sessions just for my weddings, couples, but it's very, very few. And then I blocked out most of my— after December 16th, I'm off.

Good for you.

Yeah. So I want to enjoy the holidays. My nephews are off. I want to do things with them. I want to do all the hometown holiday Hallmark movie things. I love that.

Well, I'm all into the Hallmark stuff. It's so— God, it makes me miss Christmas. Yeah. Okay. Love that you're taking a big chunk of time off in December too. I think that's the ultimate goal is getting to a point in your life, in your business, your career where you really can take the time off that you want to. I feel like that's peak ideal. What are you in between? Girl, I'm in between a lot actually. Hmm. What do I want to pick up off the floor today? I'm going to say I feel like a lot is happening for me right now. And I've been journaling, like opening myself up to opportunities. Like I am receptive to whatever's coming my way. Like from a money perspective, like I have been doing some journaling around manifesting money. Literally in the last like 10 days, so much money has found me. It is, and I'm putting in the work. We should do a whole other episode just on manifestation, but it's like genuinely nuts. Like we were manifesting, like, you know, trying to save money on travel. I'll give you a very specific example. And we had to book a hotel room to go home for my cousin's wedding. We were about to book the hotel. And it was like $150. And I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna do a little bit of digging. I feel like there's some money out there for me somewhere. Log into my Hotels.com app. I have a credit for $140. So our $150 hotel room was $10.

That's amazing.

Like, literally, girlfriend, things like this have been happening to me for the last 2 weeks. It's so interesting. Just signed one of my biggest marketing consulting clients. Like, And it's like, yeah, of course this is happening. I think that's another piece of the in-between that I'm accepting is when I'm putting out, I am open to receiving opportunity. Money flows to me. Opportunity flows easily. This is not hard. This journey, while not for everyone, I have found ease in it. Just speaking that into existence, And then when things actually happen, it's like, I'm not surprised. Trying not to be surprised anymore by like, oh wow, you want me? You want to work with me? Like that kind of, while humbling, there also is like a point of like, yeah, this makes sense because this is like what I'm working towards.

Absolutely.

So I don't know. I'm like in between the resistance of fully stepping into a lot of my power And just knowing that the vision I have is bit by bit, day by day, like it's actually coming true. And it just feels really good to live in this space. Like, I feel like I've worked really hard to get to this mental place. And it just feels really good to be here. I hope I get to stay here for as long as possible.

Yes. Oh my gosh, I love this so much for you. So much can be unlocked whenever we're able to sit down and write our story. It's like there is a million opportunities waiting for us and we have to be willing to accept it. So if we believe a certain narrative about our lives, whether it's just inherited, like we just never even thought much about it, then we will find affirmation for that. But if we start rewriting that story with every day being like, this is the level of money that I want in my life, then you start looking and finding opportunities that affirm that. And it's crazy how like God will honestly like put these opportunities in your path and be able to make those happen. But we first have to accept that that's real for us. And I love that for you. I'm excited to see how this continues to evolve and unfold. And yeah, I'll have a rich bestie before we know it. Yeah, just check me out here in like 6 to 12 months.

Well, something else that's really helped is the last couple weekends, Matthew and I have been going on long walks and like, well, long in Houston right now, which is like 30 minutes.

Yeah.

With Piper, which is about all that's healthy for us right now in the triple digits. But anyways, something that I told Matthew was like, I want to start Sundays and starting our week out, like really speaking life into our goals and into our dreams and like into what's possible. For us. So we've been going on these walks, these manifestation walks, and each person goes for 5 to 10 minutes, as long as they want to comfortably talk. And the other person can't ask questions, they can't interrupt, they can't affirm. They literally are just listening to the other person talk about their life as if it's already happened. So it's not like, I'm going to, I will. It's like, I own 10 rental properties. I have written 4 bestselling books. I have a top podcast with my best friend. Like, I— people invite me, people actively seek me out and invite me to speak at their events. Like, literally just talking like it's already happening. And he has been doing that and he's gotten so much clarity on some of the things in his career.

Yeah.

And some of the things that I have spoken are starting to happen in small doses. And I just feel like it really opens up your voice. And it's so cool that we're talking about self-advocacy today because I think speaking and opening up your throat chakra, which is very woo, very woo-woo, but opening up that source of energy in your body, your throat, your voice. Like, it really does shift things for you. And it allows so much power to be spoken over your life that when you're silent and when you hold your goals and your dreams like so close to your chest and you're scared to breathe life into them, it's hard for them to happen.

Yeah.

It's not impossible, but I think it's harder for them to happen when we don't like speak life into them, even if it's with our like trusted, most close circle. So that's been an interesting development in my life the last month.

I love the idea of doing that with your partner because I started doing this last January as part of a program, and that alone brought so much into my life and be able to say, I have paid for a full family vacation. I have— and it's like the things have been lining up so crazily. But I never thought about doing that with my partner, and that feels so vulnerable and very exposing. But I absolutely love that. And it's funny you bring that up because Nick has been wanting us to do Sunday morning, like, have coffee and do like a check-in on the week, but also like goal setting.

Love that.

And like, okay, what are you working on? Do like a whole touch base. And since I travel a lot, it's one of those things where we're still going to do even on the phone and just grab a cup of coffee and we're going to do this Sunday mornings. So I'm going to introduce him to this. He might be listening to this podcast, but it's fine.

I think it's fantastic. I think it adds a layer of transparency in not only am I rooting for Matthew's manifestations to happen, I'm protective of them now.

Yeah.

I'm watching the way that he speaks about them and we're holding each other accountable for that. And that's been really, really cool to see and to do as a partner. So yeah, 10 out of 10 recommend doing that. Even if it's not even business related, this is how I feel in my future life. We even talked about this is where we live. This is what our house looks like. I work in an office with floor-to-ceiling library and a stair, or what is it, a ladder that's on a rod, like Beauty and the Beast.

A library?

I have a Beauty and the Beast library. Just being specific about things and working to make them happen. But anyways, yeah, all good things.

I love that. We will definitely need to have an episode on that because I feel like so much of that has developed in both of our lives. And it would be fun to dive into that. Like, I got a lot of clarity on my business goals when that, when I went through that experience of like, I pictured myself 5 years from now and I woke up like in peace and with little ones around and I wasn't rushing to work and I was like, I had my home and all these things. I was like, okay, if I want that kind of freedom, having this full-time job right now is not going to provide that in that moment. So I like made everything click. So let's definitely add that to our queue of topics.

Yes, add it to the log. Okay, so self-advocacy. If you're not familiar with self-advocacy, it's speaking up for yourself. It's using your voice, asking for what you want, a lot of what we kind of just talked about. And it's getting clear on what— there's typically some sort of gap. And I think before you even get to self-advocacy, there's an aspect of awareness. First of knowing like, oh, I need to say something. I want to speak up. I want—I know something's not right, or you know there's lack of clarity. So before we even get into like the advocacy piece, I think we should touch just a minute or two on some of the awareness that needs to surface before we have clarity on like. actually using our voice and speaking up?

Absolutely. I think the awareness part is almost twofold. So I think that one of it is the relationship with self that you develop over time. You start, you make time for yourself to decide what are your dreams, what are your goals, how do you want to feel in your different types of relationships, in your career, like your values almost. And you decide that over time. But then there's also the self-awareness in the moment and as certain situations develop. And so you might be having a conversation with your dad and then something made you feel uncomfortable, or you might be having a conversation with your boss and you're like, oh, that doesn't feel right. And so whenever you have that conflicting aspect of you are working, for example, to have a healthier lifestyle and go to bed early and all these things, and then your boss consistently asks you to stay over at work, and now that messes with your gym routine and what you eat and your bedtime and everything, you're going to have this big conflict and it's going to feel heavy. And you're like, well, I want to succeed in my career and I made this promise to myself to do this. And so what do we do now?

Yeah.

And so I think whenever we run into those emotions of conflict, that is a moment to decide how you want to move forward and also to advocate for yourself and what you've Promise to yourself that you want to achieve or have as a part of your life?

That's a big one, the in-the-moment piece. I think that's something that when I'm working with clients, talking with friends, and they're coming to me and they're saying, this happened and this is how I felt about it, usually my next question after hearing them out, usually my next question is, Have you talked to them about it yet? Did you say anything in the moment? Do you want to say something in the moment? And usually the answer is no. And I think that this is saying and speaking up in the moment is not always the goal. I think it's just being really in tune with your feelings as well as your intuition. My gut is going to know When my mind-body connection, at least right now, like my stomach is going to feel it before I say it.

Absolutely.

And so really being in tune with what is happening in your body actually. Are you crossing your arms? Are you tense? Are you clenching your jaw? Are you squeezing your palms? Like what's physically happening? And then drawing that consciousness up and saying, okay, I'm feeling really tense right now. My stomach's doing flips. I don't even necessarily know what triggered me or what's making me uncomfortable. I'm just acknowledging the discomfort.

Yeah.

And then, like what you said, then it's deciding, do I want to say something from there? And sometimes that does mean speaking up in the moment, and sometimes that means processing it, giving yourself some space, and then going back to whatever the situation is And then bringing it to light. So I think like sometimes there's this pressure of self-advocacy and speaking up for yourself that's like, I have to do it in the moment. And I don't actually think that we should add that pressure to ourselves. I think it's unrealistic for us to be able to connect all the dots of how we're feeling and what we want to process and what we want to say. Sometimes that can happen really quick.

Yeah.

And sometimes we need time. So there's things like that that have happened with me and my family a lot where I'm like, I kind of want to say something, but I want to figure out how I want to say it. So then I need to take it back and then I'll think about it. And then I'm like, hey, so-and-so, can I have a conversation with you? A couple weeks ago this was said and I just, I want to clear the air. I want to tell you how that made me feel.

Yeah.

Sometimes that is like really helpful too in self-advocacy is shortening or not giving yourself a timeline, if you will.

Yeah, for sure. I love that you brought that up on like the, the sometimes the expected layer of self-advocacy. Like, okay, I'm going to be the most self-advocate person. And so I'm going to speak up in the moment whenever I feel like I'm being disrespected. Yeah. And I think there's a layer of self-advocacy that is very important and it's self-respect. And so being able to own our words and know that our words have so much power.

Yeah.

And if you are not ready to own the words that are about to come out of your mouth, then that is not self-advocacy. That is being irresponsible with your words and just lashing out your feelings on somebody else. And so being able to really take the time for you to process, because there's also times where you're just being triggered by something that's passed happened in your past. And so somebody did something that was perhaps innocent or just a level 1 thing, but we make it a level 10 because we associate it with what happened in the past.

Yeah.

And so I think that's also something that I take and that I've implemented even in my relationship where I've had to tell my boyfriend, I have to step away because there's so much that I'm processing right now, and I don't know if this is a trigger. Or if this is like in the moment scenario. And he's like, okay, cool. But like, as long as you let me know where you're at, because it seems like this is really upsetting you. So like, I need to know that too. So I was— I just feel like being able to own the words is something that he's really been grateful to me about and that we've established as a value in our relationship that you got to be ready to own the words that are about to come out of your mouth because it's so much harder to Restore after you've said something really hurtful than to just be like, I need some time and then I'll tell you afterwards.

Yeah. And I think like a part of self-advocacy that's important to the environment is making sure that the person is ready to receive. Um, so like, for example, this just happened last night. Matthew just got done with our end of July budget, you know, and whenever he's in budget mode, he wants to talk about finances. He wants to celebrate our wins. He wants to assess the losses. And we did that. And then it was like this residual, like, keep bringing it up, keep bringing it up. And like, I'm reading my book, you know, like, please do not disturb. So I said, I said, and what he was doing is he was He was using his voice. He was like, "Okay, this is what I think we should do," and da da da da. And I'm like, so I said, I said, "I know that you could talk about this all the time, but the equivalent of you talking to me about finances right now at eight thirty at night when I'm trying to read is me trying to assess your childhood trauma." And like there needs to that's probably a little bit too like drastic. But what I what I said was like. I would be happy for us to put some time on the calendar, like tomorrow night after you get back from work, let's sit down at the breakfast nook and let's FaceTime. Like, let's look at each other and talk about finances, but I'm not ready to receive.

Yeah.

And when you're trying to speak up, like sometimes the people, the people or the person is not in a place where they're like, I literally like, I can't have this deep of a conversation. I can't hold space, like whatever. They're exhausted. Like sometimes it's hard.

I'm laughing because I am Matthew. I'm like so passionate about something. It could be literally 9:30 PM and I'm like, this is what I learned about my triggers and my trauma. And this is a super heavy conversation. But okay, I love that you brought that up because I also think that self-advocacy is not this super confrontational thing.

Right.

We often make it seem like it's a big confrontational thing because it feels uncomfortable to advocate for yourself and to say, I need this, or I need us to not do this. Because maybe in the past or in our childhood, we were taught that if we self-advocate, then the other person retaliates and is like, oh, well, you don't care about me, or, oh, I just wanted to express my feelings, or I just wanted to hang out with you. You don't want to hang out with me. Like all these different, like, emotions.

Yeah.

But really, if we are in healthy relationships and in imperfect ones that we are learning to develop, self-advocacy is not confrontational. It is actually bringing the peace into your relationship. So even in that scenario you just said, if you hadn't advocated and said what you were going through in that moment, Matthew would have kept on going, not knowing, and you would have resented him and you'd have gone to bed all pissed off. And then You would've woken up all mad and you're like, oh, I just wanted my Sunday evening to rest and I didn't get that, right?

Yeah.

And I feel like that's a layer where I have learned of, okay, if I didn't get something that I wanted with my time, did I communicate it? So was it fair for me to be mad at that person because we took too long at this location? I really wanted to go for a sunset walk, but did I even communicate that? And it's like, if they thought the day was open and there was nothing on the calendar, then why is it— why are we rushing out of here? So I think that that is another twofold part of decide what you need that day. If you're feeling it's a Sunday, you feel anxious, you feel all these things, what do you need to feel better? Communicate it to the people around you and then being able to advocate for yourself in that way.

Yeah, I love that you said that because that's a part of setting the expectations as well. Like, expectations and self-advocacy, I think, go hand in hand. Because if you're like on a trip or even if it's a deadline at work and someone is doing something that's conflicting with what you need or what you want, I love your question of like, is it my right to be mad at something I didn't communicate or ask And I think that's like a really big piece here. And something else that, as you were talking, that came up for me was the people pleasing tendency that can come. And that it really is almost like, like, have you ever watched like an action movie and they're trying to break into something and then there's just like a vault or like a door that just slams shut automatically? Yeah. That's what I think of like people pleasing, because I'm like, here we are, we're on this path, we're like going forward, doo doo doo. We're like, we're gonna say what we need and we're gonna ask what we want and we're gonna, God forbid, actually say what we want to have for dinner or where we want to go and, you know, like what restaurant we want or like just actually just say what we want. I feel like sometimes people pleasing can come in and just cut off the ability for us to, to say what we need to say. And I think that it can make it difficult for people to, to speak up because they're like, I don't want to hurt somebody. I don't want to annoy them. I don't want to bother them. Insert whatever the fear is there.

Absolutely. And I think taking that into consideration when we communicate the self-advocacy is important. So if you don't want to stand up for something that you want because of fear that they're going to feel like you don't want to hang out with them, for example, then start your statement with, I love our quality time. I love spending time with you. And tonight I need to stick to my goal of going to the gym. And unfortunately, I have to choose that to stay with my goals. But can we hang out tomorrow? I would love to do so. You're bringing up the emotions. You're validating that you're setting the expectation for your time and your needs, and then you're offering a solution for that as well, so that they know that they are still just as important. It's just maybe not a thing for today, or it's just not something for this season as well. If you are going through you know a budgeting season or a money situation, like being able to say it's not that I don't want to hang out with you. This is going on. When can we do it rather than pushing through? your own boundaries and not being able to communicate that with them.

Yeah, that's big. Like the communicating around boundaries and also bringing in the feelings part of it. Like when we're advocating for ourselves, we're doing that, as you kind of mentioned earlier, like to seek peace or to seek connection and to seek further transparency in the relationship. Like, this is what I need. This is how I feel. I care about you. I care about us. I, or even if it's a work situation, like, I love our working relationship. I really enjoy my role here. I see the vision, like kind of just reiterating your stance on the relationship or the situation. And then also clearly communicating like, this is what I need though. And this is, this is like how I want to move forward.

Yeah.

Um, have there been any, like, I know we kind of had made some notes here of how, or certain situations that we've been in where we're like, okay, I need to like advocate for myself in this. Yeah. Are there any that come to mind?

Yeah. I mean, there's quite a few. I would say when it comes to career, that was a big one. So I was once in an environment where I had a boss, absolutely loved him. He was fantastic. And I have a really strong work ethic, I'd like to think.

You do.

And because of that, I tried to balance it out with travel. And time off is really important to me. And so it felt like the culture or the wording around me was to say, oh, so-and-so hasn't even taken a vacation this past year. And it was like glorified. And, or, oh no, I haven't even taken a day off in like 3 years. And it was glorified as like a hard-working thing.

Yeah.

And so I could have at that point given into the, the language that my boss was putting off, or even like quit my job and like, this is not my environment, blah blah blah. But I chose to self-advocate, and I was like, hey, I'd love to chat about time off because, as you know, like, I am here. I will work as many hours as we need to to get the project across. I'm up till 8 PM if we need to get this project across. Like, I feel like I have shown that, and I don't want there to be any shame around me taking my time off that I rightfully worked for. And that also, like, I'm working when everybody else is off too. Like, that's another thing with like salaried positions too. And if you find yourself in a salaried position, you have seasons where you're pushing through, having some late nights, and everybody else that is maybe not— like they clock off at 5, they don't see that. And so then you can get that backlash when you take the days off rightfully needed.

Yeah.

And so I spoke up and I was like, 2 things that were bothering me that I analyzed at that moment was A, I want to be able to take my vacation, and B, I want to be able to take it without shame or being shamed behind my back about it. So going back to what I said earlier of, um, did I communicate about it beforehand, is if I would have heard of someone being like, well, you always take vacation time— specifically my boss, he never did this, but I'm just saying if he would have— I could have come back to him, been like, hey, I mentioned this when we had a conversation, and hold it back to this self-advocacy that this is important to me to not feel guilty and be able to fully rest. So that's one that comes up with my career for sure.

Yeah, I love that. And also taking vacation is your legal right as a W-2 employee. Absolutely. So if an employer ever adds any pressure or questions you, make sure you pull out your HR handbook and ensure that they know their vacation policy and that they legally cannot tell you when to take off. So anyways, just know your rights. Something that comes to mind for me is around language use in the workplace. And it was with— we were in a meeting. There were a lot of leadership. This is not— this happened years ago, not at the company I'm at now. And I was leading the meeting. We had a very important decision to make. And as a leader of a channel in the business, I needed to assert that leadership and my firm, um, opinion on where we should go based on my expertise, based on my expert knowledge of my channel. And the feedback that was given to me, um, on that meeting in front of everyone was that I was being bossy. And that I had this bossy energy and it rubbed this person the wrong way. And that was a man. I'm early in my career. I'm in tech. I'm leading a channel that was making a lot of money at the time. And I had very firm opinions and I needed to communicate them in a way that was very clear. And so to hear that my intentions of like being a clear communicator and a leader of my role was interpreted as bossy.

Yeah.

Really rubbed me the wrong way. And so after I internalized that like pretty deeply, I think I was 24 or 25 at the time, and I really internalized that and sat with it for probably a bit too long. Um, we should talk about that too, when we sit with things for too long. And I ended up having an opportunity to talk with him about it because later, a couple months later, he was talking about how he wanted to be an advocate for women in the workplace. And it was the perfect opportunity for me to bring up the situation that happened with me. And so I did. I communicated how I felt. He apologized. He's like— I said, you would never have called a man bossy. In a meeting who was the leader of a channel in which you were all there to make decisions on. And so he really retracted and obviously felt, um, you know, like he was apologetic, very kind, very genuine. But it was like my opportunity too to help him navigate language used in the workplace towards women. So sometimes your advocacy is for yourself, and sometimes your advocacy in the workplace or in your family is for other people too. Because when you speak up, it influences and impacts the people in your organization, people be, you know, sometimes people that you'll never even know it's impacted. And I think that's a beautiful piece of advocacy, in my opinion, especially in the workplace, that can really have a lasting impact beyond you.

Absolutely. I also think that self-advocacy within our careers and our workplace can be really hard because if it's with your boss, if it's with another leader, or just people that you're working with every day, there is a lot more fear of like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna have to keep seeing them every single day and collaborate with them on these projects. And is this gonna affect so much of it? You know?

Yeah.

And, and as a recovering people pleaser, I think in that moment is being able to say, okay, am I going to be okay? Will I feel better after I advocate for myself and stand up to something that is true with my values? Or would I prefer going against my values, sacrifice my voice to make them feel comfortable?

Yes.

And so whenever I'm able to walk through that scenario and be like, okay, I would actually not feel okay in the long term. Then I'm able to act in the present. But in the present, I think that a lot of times we're taught to just be like, oh, well, it's just a small thing. Assume the best of people and just keep going. And really, you're stealing someone's opportunity to grow. You're stealing an opportunity for your relationship or your friendship or your— what do you call that? Your relationship with your colleagues, your professional relationships to not grow because it is just part of life and everyone has different needs. I think that's the beautiful, beautiful part about self-advocacy is like your needs are not somebody else's needs. And that's why we have to speak up for ourselves because they will never be able to know what it is that you're needing in that place in time.

Yeah. I love that you brought up the values piece too. I think that's huge. Self-advocacy is a verbal reflection Of your values. And so when you have clarity on what you value, what you believe in, I think it can help us get to a decision quicker on if and when we speak up and use our voice. Another thing here to touch on around self-advocacy, advocating for others, that can sometimes feel— and this kind of goes into like our future conversation we'll have this month around boundaries. But a part of speaking up, even when you're uncomfortable, is knowing when someone's being, you know, like, what am I trying to say? Injust injustice, misjustice, like unfair. Thank you. Being unfair or speaking out of turn, and so they're you know growing up in rural communities. There are people that have really strong opinions on certain things that I don't feel comfortable being in rooms where they're talking about it, or they're using certain language that is really offensive and hurtful and should not be spoken. And so how I have navigated those conversations is I'm not going to change who they are, and I am not also with. It's 2023. I am not going to educate them into change. And so what has helped me navigate those situations is saying something along the lines of, I'm not comfortable being in this conversation as while you talk like that, so I'd like to change the subject, or I'm happy to leave. And while that's very firm, it lets them know that like I'm happy to continue to be in your presence if we change the topic. And also, it's letting me know that I'm not comfortable with their behavior or this line of conversation.

Absolutely.

And so it's also in a way, I'm not setting a boundary and saying like, I'm never coming back here, don't ever speak to me again. But I am setting a light boundary in a way of saying, I'm not— I don't want to be present while you're discussing things like this.

Yeah.

And that has really helped me find a voice. Like, I cannot— it makes me sad, um, how many situations I have been in where conversations or words that are being spoken are directly against my values. And I struggle with, do I speak up? Do I not say anything? Like, when do I say something? Should I let it lie? Like, I'm not gonna change who they are. So landing on this scenario, landing on that sentence has really helped me feel like I can still speak up for myself while also not getting into any kind of debate or any kind of educational battle really, because it, it, it costs a lot of peace to try to get into those conversations with people that aren't ready to receive.

Absolutely. That is so powerful that you mentioned, and even on the lines of being women, women in the workplace, there's still a lot of women and men that aren't educated on how to be respectful towards women in the workplace. And so I think that being able to differentiate that of self-advocacy for yourself and also just in general advocacy for women, if you're in a meeting and someone just assumes or says something that makes you feel uncomfortable, or a client— like, I, I heard of this one scenario on TikTok where The client said something kind of demeaning to her, and she was able to—I wish I remember the specifics—but she was able to basically say, "I am not comfortable to move forward with this partnership, and I'm happy to move you." That's what it was. She was she said, "Okay, it sounds like that that it sounds like we are not going to be a good fit working together. I'm going to move you over to one of my colleagues in the sales department as well. That would be a better." fit. Just so you know, this is not okay to say to women. This is not okay, blah, blah. And so she very lightly, like, somehow was able to say that very professionally and to the point, was not like, was not showing that she was bothered, was not showing that like, it rocked her and completely killed this like client and was like, get him out of here. But spoke directly to him, stood up for herself, and had the freedom enough to say, I don't want to have you as a client. So we'll still serve you, but here's who's going to work with you.

Yes.

So I think that self-advocacy as women specifically can feel a lot of times like there's a lot of work there because we feel like someone's going to say— like if someone said something that was disrespectful in general and you call them out on it, they're like, oh yeah, I could see how that's disrespectful. But somehow if they say something disrespectful in terms of like being a woman, It's like up for debate, and it's like, oh wait, what? Why did did you get offended about that? So yeah, anyway, I'm going on a tangent there, but no, we can go down this road. You know, I'm very passionate about it.

I'm very passionate about it, and I think I think this is a great opportunity for us to bring up like the temp check. Like when you're, and you kind of talked about this in preparation for this episode, but when you're speaking up for yourself. How someone responds to them— sorry, to you— says a lot about where they are in that moment. It says a lot about their ability to receive feedback. What, what has— what have been some of your, like, moments where, you know, you're speaking up and someone's not really taking it well and you're like, okay, this is teaching me things?

Absolutely. So I feel like Especially if you're in a season of dating or getting to know different people, this is very useful because at that point in time, they are not your boyfriend. They have not been in your life for a long time. You've got your life, they've got their life. And so whenever I was in a season of dating people and getting to know them, I obviously just communicated what I needed. And so whenever I did do that scenario or did do that, There was this one specific guy that he was so sweet in the beginning, was incredible. We had a really sweet date. And then a few weeks in, I was like, he was processing some emotions that was very hard for him. And I totally understood that. And then he was expecting me to walk him through all of these emotions that night. I had just shot a full wedding and wanted to talk to me that night. And it was like 10:30 PM. I had just had a really long day. And it was more the language of like, he needed me to drop everything that I was doing to walk him through this. And then at the same time, like demanding something from me. Like I was, we had just gone on dates for like 3 weeks. So we had, you're not my boyfriend, you're nothing. Right. And so—

You're nothing.

That sounds mean. But truly, it was very disrespectful to me. And so I was like, okay, maybe this is just a scenario. When you're in the moment and you're hurt and you're navigating a lot, he was just taking it out on me. It's just an isolated thing. And then when I told him, I was like, hey, I'm so sorry that you're experiencing this right now. I'd love to chat about this tomorrow and help you and support you through it. Tonight, I just can't. He sent me this massive text lashing out, and I was like, that tells me everything that I need to know about this, and we will no longer be dating. And so I think whenever it comes to relationships, if you're starting to date, it tells you a lot about the person, how they respond.

Yeah.

And there's even been scenarios in my current relationship where I've communicated things that I need, and it's perhaps something not that he needs in his life. But he cares enough about what I want and what I need in that moment that he's like, okay, tell me more about that. Okay, cool. Like, okay, is today one of those days where you need time alone? Like, do you need some space? Like, whenever we have any kind of argument or like discussion and I kind of start shutting down, his first question will always be, do you need some space?

Aww.

And it's like, okay. And that's like, it's a very normal thing in our relationship. And so I think that having people in our lives that whether they get it or not, they can respect it, is very important to keep reaffirming the importance of our self-advocacy journey.

Yeah, I agree. I think that's a really important point. When we're speaking up for ourselves, it's not a prerequisite for someone to understand every piece of why we're speaking up for ourselves. The baseline is respect. So can we hold respect for each other? Can we hear each other out? Can we listen? Can we be open? And there's so much progress that can happen on the other side of that. But as soon as respect leaves the chat, it's really difficult to have a productive conversation.

Yeah.

Also, it made me think of like a small thing in my relationship with Matthew. In terms of advocating for what I need, so and I connected all the dots. But in the moment, I didn't know it. I grew up with family that made birthdays and celebrations a very big deal. Okay, very, very, very big deal. I went to Paris for my 30th. Like I like to celebrate. I want to celebrate anniversaries. I want to celebrate birthdays, Valentine's Day. That's who I am. I love that about myself. And that's also a part of like my family culture was celebrating those things. And Matthew came from a family where they didn't necessarily do that. Like they didn't celebrate in the same ways. And so when we started dating and we were getting further and further in our relationship, I would expect things that I would not receive from him and it would always tick me off. Like I would like, you know, here he is like this amazing partner, and then he's like really missing the mark on an anniversary or on a birthday, like just not hitting the way that I would expect given like the baseline of our relationship, right? And it's because that wasn't modeled to him. It wasn't modeled to him. Yeah. So he, you know, I was expecting something from him that he did not necessarily know how to give me yet. And then I got really, really clear. I was like, I want a card on Valentine's Day. I want a card on our anniversary. I want us to either make a decision together or you make a reservation for like my birthday. Like, I— these are things that I need in our relationship. And granted, these aren't happening every day, you know, like a birthday and an anniversary are once a year. But like, these are The ways I wanted to celebrate us in an anniversary, and the ways I wanted to be celebrated on like something like my birthday, and that has evolved so much. But just being able to communicate that, he was like, "Cool, now I literally know how to show up for you." Whereas before, we would always get in arguments and like, "You suck," you know, like whatever it was. And he's like, "I I got you something." You know, I'm like, but it wasn't the way, it wasn't how, it wasn't—

The delivery. The delivery wasn't what I wanted. Absolutely. I feel like that is so common in all relationships because we both come from such different families.

Yes.

And so being able to just say, what do you need? What do you want? And that's going to fluctuate over time as your relationship matures. You start going into, you know, your different jobs, or you start growing a family, or you start traveling more. Like, there's so many different seasons.

Yeah.

And that self-advocacy is really going to change as well in the relationship. One that came to mind is whenever you have different goals as your partner, being able to advocate for yourself in that. So for example, right now I'm really trying to hit my protein goals every day. And so I am tracking my protein goals. And so yesterday Nick was like, you want to go get some cheese her that cold burst and I was like, no, I can't. Don't ask me that. So it's just one of those things where I am committed to a goal. I really want to do this for a whole month. And at the same time, it doesn't mean that he has to do it. So being able to say, and this has happened a lot in our relationship where I'll say, hey, I don't want to go to the gym today, but you go and I'll meet you afterwards. We don't have to do the same things, but being able to advocate for— What do you need? Or I need to eat healthy today. Or I actually, I haven't seen my mom in a while. I love when we spend time together, but I need to go hang out with her tonight. Can we move date night over? So I think feeling safe enough is a prerequisite though, to be able to have self-advocacy. And so that is something to maybe think through, is if you feel like you are normally a self-advocate person.

Mm-hmm.

And you feel like you can't do that in one of your relationships or multiple of them, then it's time to maybe explore why that is, if it's across the board or if it's with a specific person, and then maybe navigating that first on the communication styles, then self-advocacy.

Yeah, that's so important. And I think as you were explaining that, there were a few people that came to mind for me of like, In relationships in the past, not so much now, but relationships in the past where I didn't feel safe to, to speak my mind because I was worried the other person was going to be defensive or not hear it the way I was saying it.

Mm-hmm.

Like, you know, I, I try to be someone that means exactly what I say. And so I, I'm not someone that does a lot of innuendos or like You know, say things, but there's a deeper meaning. You know, like I'm not passive like that. At least I don't think I am. So, but that's what always made me nervous when I would have conversations with these people is like they would always make my words mean something else. And then I felt like I was doing extra work. Not only was I trying to advocate for what I needed, I was defending what I was speaking up for. And then I was also like trying to rewrite a narrative that wasn't even like. True, that wasn't happening. And so I also had to learn for myself, like, when you get in relationships with people and there's patterns of self-advocacy and it's not held and like it's not respected, it doesn't feel safe, I think it also just tells you that maybe there is some distance, some growth, some healing that needs to happen in that relationship in order for you to Like feel safe, or maybe it's just not ever going to happen. And that sucks, but that's also a reality of this too, is when you really do practice using your voice and you're feeling more confident and speaking up for yourself, there are sometimes going to be people that aren't able to hold space for that. And while it's uncomfortable, I think it's important to spend as much of our short lives with people that make us feel safe. safe.

Yeah.

And, um, it's not that we can't disagree, right, or, or, or try to find clarity or, or navigate conflict. Um, but when I think when we spend a lot of time with people who make it feel unsafe to speak up, I think that's just really difficult for us to, to know ourselves because we just tend to kind of mold into either we are quiet and we don't speak up, or we tend to kind of As you mentioned, just do what other people want us to do because we're not really sure how to go about using our voice. That's a hard place to be.

Absolutely. It's exhausting. And so I think that when it comes— when I think on my self-advocacy journey, it is something that I first started with myself before. And I— it's almost like the reps. I got strong enough in advocating within myself myself before I felt comfortable advocating with others. And I wish it would have been all at once, but it wasn't. That's my reality. And so for me, it was thinking every day, what do I need today? Okay, I feel tired. I'm needing this. I'm needing space, needing family. What are my goals? What do I need to support that? How am I communicating it to other people? And so just being able to stair-step into that and be able to Choose where you want to eat for dinner. And using small moments, like you are with your whole family and everyone's deciding where to go to dinner. Instead of saying, oh, whatever you guys want, when you're actually craving something, say what you're craving. And you'll be okay if they don't go with that decision, but you're saying what you want.

Yes.

And I think that it's a practice of being able to not just give in, which I feel like in some sense, As women, we're taught that a lot, to sacrifice what it is that we want for just like the peace of the environment and the peace of everyone.

Yes.

And so I think that if you're listening to this podcast and it sounds overwhelming and you feel stressed just even thinking of advocating for yourself in your relationships, in your family, and in your career, being able to start advocating for yourself and your own decisions And starting small until you feel comfortable to do that. And even if your voice is shaky when you first do it, do it, and you'll feel so proud of yourself afterwards. And it's going to be a practice, and it's going to be uncomfortable, and it's a lifelong journey, truly. You're muted.

Love that little good mute unmute. Just for some context, they're building 2 houses behind us right now. So there's like so much noise happening all the time behind our house.

I can't hear you at all. Okay, cool.

That's why I muted. But anyways, yeah, I think that's really important to look at self-advocacy, just like vulnerability, just like any habit or any ritual that you build into your life. It's a practice. It's something that sometimes you're going to feel really proud and you're like, okay, I just love the way I handled that. And then there are going to be things where you're like, gosh, I wish I would've done this, or maybe I would've tweaked that, or I wish I would've spoken up. And there are infinite amount of lessons to learn from ourselves. And I think if you can approach self-advocacy as a learning opportunity, this is going to help me learn more about myself, it's going to help me learn more about my friends, with my partner, instead of something that feels like it's rooted in a lot of pressure, um, or as you kind of mentioned, like, um, trying to keep the peace and it feels disruptive. If you can reframe what self-advocacy and like speaking up for yourself, if you can switch your language around it of like, gosh, I'm gonna speak up for myself when I'm gonna learn more about this relationship. It can shift the way and the energy that we bring to it. Um, I think that can help. And then there's also times where like sometimes it's just scary and hard, and that's okay too.

Yeah, for sure. And hopefully most of the people listening to this too find themselves in very safe relationships and friendships. And I feel like that's such a great place to start to practice that, because being able to tell your partner At the beginning of the year, hey, I really need a vacation. When can we plan one? I would love to go on a vacation. Or, I really need you to step in with dinners this week because I have a really full week. Being able to say those things is so important. And I think a lot of times whenever I've talked to certain girlfriends too, they'll be frustrated that their partner isn't helping in certain ways. And I totally get that. And also, whenever they start speaking up, their partner is more than willing to help. They just didn't even know that was a thing, you know? And so a lot of times, like, we've been taught certain things, so we just by default act on it. But it's not that they don't want to. So I think the beautiful part of self-advocacy is that we get to now craft and create this life that we want. We're not default into anything.

Right.

If that's what you want, you can communicate it, you can start working towards it. And get that life rather than resent it and then go and vent to your girlfriends and be like, oh, my boss is X, Y, and Z, or my partner is X, Y, and Z. We can just advocate and communicate.

Yeah. It's difficult to change things in our lives when we don't either ask for it or say what we need to be changed and then expecting things to change without being the catalyst. It's difficult for people to to make behavior changes, or you're— for your partner to help, or for your, your friend to stop doing something or start doing something if you don't speak up for yourself. And I love this series. I love this whole theme of communication, and I really hope that it helps you feel seen and that there was something from today's conversation that gave you like a tip or a tool Or like, I'm going to practice that. I'm going to try that. And just start experimenting with speaking up for yourself. And I can't— tell us, send us a DM on Instagram and tell us if there's something that you do this month or moving forward that you spoke up for yourself and tell us how it felt. Because I think a lot of times that post-advocacy feeling— is like, oh, that was hard, or like, oh, I was kind of nervous about that, but it went so well. Or like, even regardless of the outcome, I'm proud of myself. I am proud that I took up space. My voice is worthy to be heard. And that is like such a beautiful place to be and to feel about yourself. So let us know in the DMs.

Yes, for sure. I'm a big like questions girly too. So if you feel like you're starting your self-advocacy journey or really wherever it is that you find yourself right now, I challenge you this coming week to think about what is it that you need this week? Like whatever that is, write it down. It could be as light as actually I need to take an evening off. I want to spend time outside. I want to go on a fun date or I want to go on a girls' night, whatever that might be. Write down what it is that you need and then write down what's it going to take to make that happen and how can you communicate that with the people around you and advocate for yourself and commit to that too. So I'm so excited because next episode is going to be on boundaries.

Yes.

And that is the second layer to self-advocacy and how we put those into action with ourselves and with others around us and how we can set those boundaries with those people that we love as well.

Yeah. Yeah. I am so excited about this series. If this is resonating with you, leave us a review on iTunes or give us a rating on Spotify. We love reading those, seeing those numbers grow, and just seeing how many listeners come in each month. Like, it's just Astrid and I doing this. And so we— there's no production company back here that we know of. And so we just, we love putting out these intentional conversations, getting to connect with you. So if you're feeling generous, leave us a review. And as I mentioned, yeah, please DM us as you're learning, as you're practicing things that you're trying. You can do that @inbetween.pod. And if you ever want to reach out to me directly, you can do that @alexisteichmiller on Instagram.

Or you can reach out to me @astrajohannaphoto. And we are so excited to be back, excited to chat with you next week, and we'll talk to you next time.