Building Sustainable Confidence and How to Trust Yourself

Welcome to The In Between Podcast. I'm Astrid.

And I'm Alexis. And we're 2 best friends on a journey to living a fun, intentional life.

We know it's easier to share on a season of life once it's behind you, but what about when you're in the middle of the growth, confusion, and decision-making?

This lifestyle podcast is for the everyday gal who loves to travel, talk about business, relationships, fashion, and everything in between. Hello friends, and welcome back to Welcome to The In Between Podcast. I am one half of the pod, Alexis.

And I am the other half, Astrid.

And we're really excited. First off, we have been doing this for 4 and a half months. It's been— this is episode 22, and every week we're just like, we're showing up on the airwaves. It feels good to be consistent and to be consistently connecting with you all, and it's just been a really fun journey so far.

It's been so fun. Also, how in the heck are we already 4 and a half months in?

I have no idea. I just feel like time went by so quickly, and I looked back and I was like, 22 months, okay. Or 22 months— 22 episodes.

Oh my gosh.

Well, hey, one day we'll be 22 months in, I'm sure. Um, almost 2 years. But yeah, it's just exciting, and I'm looking forward to today's topic on confidence and how to build sustainable confidence that's not rooted in accomplishments, even though that helps. Like, how do you, how do you stand on your own in your own confidence, in your own body, in your own skin, without needing a lot of external validation or a lot of external affirmation? And a lot of that comes through trusting yourself. So we're, I'm really looking forward to this conversation because Astrid and I have both been on our own journeys in that. And it's, It's had, um, highlights and lowlights and, um, all of that.

And everything in between.

And everything in between. But, um, okay. Also, we literally yesterday just got back to our homes from New York and it was, we celebrated Astrid's birthday and it was so much fun. It was her first time in New York. So I would love to hear like what you liked about New York and, and like what your highlights were from the trip.

Oh my gosh, it was probably one of my favorite trips ever. Definitely top 3. Definitely top 3.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah, I feel like—

That makes me feel so good. Well, you were—

you did an amazing job planning it. Um, but I just feel like it brought out so many different sides of my personality, A. B, it highlighted different things that I love. So our friendship, like being able to share that experience with view, and then being able to have these incredible dining experiences, and then going to Broadway, like the artistic side of me, and then shopping, and then the outfits. Like, it was just all around incredible. And, and also being able to rest and go with the flow, but also plan. Like, I'm always in between that sweet spot when it comes to travel.

Mm-hmm.

And so I just felt so at home in New York. It would just— I feel like it brought out the best of me there. Um, so yeah, I, I loved it. I would say, um, I felt inspired. That's, that's mostly what I felt when I was there— inspired. But also, I didn't feel like it was a rat race of— like, I didn't feel this, like, desperate energy in New York that I kind of thought that I would see or get while being there.

Yeah. And I also feel like there's so much like New York after COVID, that narrative has been out there a lot, like in the news and just, and I'm sure there are things that are happening in New York and I've seen them happen on, on the news, but like, I felt very secure there, which I didn't expect as well. Like we didn't have anything negative happen to us, which is just lovely.

Mm-hmm.

One, like that's, I hope that's how everyone experiences New York and travel in general. But yeah, I loved how smooth everything went and our dining experiences, our clothes, just having the freedom of like shopping and coming out of the dressing room. Y'all, there's like nothing like shopping with your girlfriends. You come out of the dressing room, you're like, what do you think? And you're both like dissecting like, okay, how would you wear it and how would you style it? And we had so many moments like that on this trip that were just so lovely because being married, I don't— and also living in a new city where I don't really have a ton of that yet, still building it. I miss that. I crave that sister feminine energy where we're coming out and it's like, you look amazing. Yes.

You're like, you are hot. You need to buy that now.

Literally, I was like, you look so hot in that. And we got to have lots of those experiences. So I thought that was It was just beautiful.

Like, the whole trip was absolutely incredible. I feel like, you know, when you're kids and you dress up with like your friends and you like do all these things, you just imagine it. I feel like this was the real-life version of that, of like playing dress-up and exploring and seeing all the things and seeing places that, um, yeah, as someone who wasn't born in the States, like a lot of people from Venezuela and Colombia don't even get to experience that. So it was like a very surreal moment to just kind of see it and be like, I'm very, very blessed. And just having that on my birthday weekend too was like, I could not have asked for a better weekend. But it was an incredible itinerary. If anyone is going to New York, Alexis did an incredible job at picking out the most wonderful places. So we're happy to share them. Reach out to us. Definitely, I would say number one that you have to go to is this restaurant called Buddakan. Is that how we say it?

Yeah.

Oh my gosh. I felt like I was eating in a museum. Like, it's just a whole other experience. It felt ethereal. It felt elevated, but it also felt down to earth. Like, it didn't feel stuffy either. Right.

Everyone was very kind. Like, it didn't feel like we felt out of place.

Yeah. Or like everyone's like looking you up and down. No, like everyone's just in their own world, which was beautiful. And the food was incredible. It's just one of the best dining experiences.

I'm still thinking about those little dumplings.

Oh, me too. I thought about them on the plane back. I was like, I was never going to have those dumplings again until I come back.

I know.

Yeah.

Seriously happy to share any of our itinerary with you. Yeah, I had such a good time. It's like, I also love that we recorded the episode last week on traveling with friends, and then it was so fresh and we just walked right into traveling with each other.

Took our own advice.

We took our own advice a lot this weekend, communicating and all of that. It was amazing. I am so thankful I got to experience it with you. Okay, let's talk about what we're in between right now. And I feel a little unprepared for this question. So Can you go first?

Of course, of course. And if you are new around here, um, every episode that we do, we share what we feel that we are in between in life and what seasons we are, um, experiencing right now. So for me, I feel like I am in between being very grateful for where I'm at and how much I've grown And I've been feeling this really strong push to more. I want more. And that can be really hard to navigate because part of me is like, well, am I being materialistic or am I not being grateful enough for what I have? Well, why do I want more? And then just really, which aren't bad questions, but I think a past version of myself would have wanted to just shut that feeling of wanting more and identified it as bad and been like, no, we need to be grateful. And present version of me is like, well, we do feel very grateful and lucky. And if nothing changed right now, we are happy. And perhaps this feeling of wanting more is because that's where our calling is. And that's what we're being called to. So it doesn't really come from a A selfish place. And I think that there's so many elements of working towards our higher version, a higher version of ourselves that come into that. And the more that— and we're going to talk about confidence today, but the more that you work on your self-respect and self-love, it's going to show up in a lot of areas of your life of how do you dress, the places that you visit, the way that you manage your home, the way that you decorate your home, The careers that you choose, the people that you choose to hang out with, and wanting more in each of those areas perhaps is a reflection of your growth. Like, you now have higher standards for yourself on the way that you want your environment to look like and the people you want to be surrounded by. And so I'm just feeling a really strong push in multiple areas to step into the more. And so I'm just navigating. those feelings. Like, perhaps there are areas where I'm navigating where I'm wanting more for the wrong reasons, perhaps not. But also, there's other areas that I'm wanting it for the right reasons. So I'm just kind of weaving in through those, journaling through them, just really letting it sink in. And yeah, just trying to make some wise choices and just listening to myself rather than shutting things down.

I love that you called out the More equals bad, and I think that's like especially and depending on whatever your personal background is, like growing up in the church, sometimes it felt like wanting more meant that like we weren't grateful for what we had. And I think I loved how you described that is like more isn't always more things or more money; it could be more growth, unlocking more healing, more forgiveness, more love. Like Taking your gifts and your creativity and turning it into something that has more impact. Like, there's so many elements of more that aren't rooted in materialism, and I love that you called that out. I don't think I've ever been able to articulate that, but I have also struggled with that in different seasons. And I'm really excited to see where you land with it here in the next couple of months.

Thank you.

And what you want to do with it.

Yeah.

I think that's when you're exploring something and you're trying to decide, what do I want to do with it? Sometimes there's this urgency of having to make a decision. And sometimes we can make a decision to say, I recognize that this is here and it is something that I want, but I actually don't think I want to explore it right now. Maybe I want to explore it in 6 months, in 12 months, in a couple of years. And I think Just the way the world works, if we're very like, now, now, now, we need to make a decision now and act right now. And I'm curious to see like where you'll land even with that. Like, is it something that you want— the more you're looking for?

Yeah.

Is it something that you want to try to do right now? Or is it something that you're honoring and saying, okay, yeah, I do want that. And I'm actually going to work towards that over the next 12 months. Instead of like needing to do it now.

Does that—

you know what I'm saying?

100%. And I think being able to be okay with you not having it all figured out in your own mind and heart too, and letting that sink in for a while. And it could be months, like you said, before I even figure out what that more means. But I also feel like for me it's in different areas. So I may get some clarity in some and in others not. And so I almost feel like You know how people choose the word for the year? I almost feel like that's kind of the theme for my next coming year of exploring more in different areas. I really want to, and I feel it heavily, to volunteer more and get involved with some kind of organization with teenagers and really having that connection with teenage women specifically. And so that's an area I feel called to. And so that also requires My schedule needs to be more tightened up, right? So I can open up spaces for those things. And then more also means less. So more mindfulness with— and then having less shopping, less things. Let's get rid of stuff. And so I just feel like I, I'm— I guess I'm ready to just be a little tougher on myself is kind of the, the theme.

Mm-hmm.

And, and be like, step into that. So I'm excited, nervous because it also means facing a lot of fears and things that are very uncomfortable, but we'll see where it goes.

I'm proud of you, baby. That mental toughness though.

We love it, we hate it. I need a nap. Yeah, literally.

I'm tired of healing, Grandpa. What are you between? Good question. Okay, so I am in between navigating The holidays are coming up. And so for anyone who has— you're either in close proximity to family or you're not. Maybe you're hosting them. Maybe you're going home for the holidays. It can bring up a lot of triggers, insecurities in yourself that sometimes your family, even just being around them, they don't even have to say anything. But just being in proximity with family or old friends can like really bring up a lot of your old insecurities. So I am currently in between. I'm hosting my family for Thanksgiving and next week, and then you know Matthew and I are going home for two weeks over the holidays. We both are able to work remote, so it's awesome that we get that extra time with our family and friends at home in Illinois, and I can see the. Like my tendencies to want to control and my tendencies to want to perfect an environment and situation and the energy around it. So it's like wanting everything for my family to be perfect and everything to be clean. Matt and I last week, we cleaned, we deep cleaned the lighting in our whole house.

Oh.

'Cause I was like, I don't want my mom to look up and see dust up there. You know, it's like, Which like, yes, that's like, we enjoy doing that together. We enjoy cleaning together. But it's also like coming from a place of wanting my family, wanting to impress them, wanting to show them the life that Matthew and I have built. I want them to be proud of me. And they are proud of me. They've never said that they weren't proud of me, right? I'm talking about me here.

Mm-hmm.

It's just, you know, we're finally on our own own, you know, like, We're in our own home that we own. And like, it just feels very adult. It feels very like we're all experiencing this for the first time together.

Mm.

And I'm really looking forward to it, but I'm in between recognizing those tendencies of wanting to like control and like curate this perfect family weekend when like I have to leave room for the messiness, the humanity, and the reality of the fact that nothing is going to be perfect. I'll probably burn something in the oven or my niece might not like something. That's okay. And so, I am just navigating the tendencies of wanting to impress. And, it's like they're my family, they literally don't care. And so yeah, I don't know. I guess I'm in between figuring out how to communicate that to them and be like, really excited to have you here. I'm also nervous. I'm also like, you know, I want you guys to have a great time. And then just opening up the door for them to be affirming and to be like, no, it's, you know, we all know that none of this has to be perfect because we know everything about each other. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, they've seen you in your worst.

Absolutely. So it's like why that comes up. I'm just kind of exploring that and how I can navigate that in a more healthy way instead of trying to suppress it and then one, blow up, get upset, or get mad at Matthew for no reason because I'm over here trying to be perfect for my family, or get upset with them. It's just like, okay, Let's just take it down. Let's breathe. Let's understand what's happening here. Okay? The reality is that we're— this is going on and this is how it's showing up. And so anyways, I have spent the majority of my life and my role in my family unit curating energy.

Mm-hmm.

And I went through a lot of therapy to like figure this out. And I do it now in other situations. And sometimes I really enjoy it. Sometimes I love being the vibe curator. You know, I used to call, when I, at one of my old jobs, they called me the CEO, the Chief Energy Officer.

Nice.

And like, and so I love that, but that's also a lot of pressure to put on yourself to manage the expectations and energy of everyone in the room. And like, I don't have to do that anymore. So I can do it when it's a gift and when it's healthy, but when it shifts over the line, And I know what that line is personally, then I realize, okay, I need to release that. That's not mine to manage.

Yeah.

So just working through that. And yeah, it's been good though. I'm proud of myself for being proactive with some of these feelings and some of these triggers that I know are going to happen. And so it's like, okay, let's figure out how we can navigate this and make sure it's a really fun, loving experience without it needing to be perfect.

Yeah, I'm proud of you for being aware of that too and bringing it to the forefront prior to them arriving, um, because that will overall help the experience.

Right.

And I think everyone in their 20s or 30s, whenever you're first hosting, those firsts, it's like you're, you're the first time you're hosting people over, the first time you're hosting your friends, your family, the holidays, you feel this pressure to like, I'm the host now, everything has to be perfect. Like, is the bathroom tip-top shape? You know, is the kitchen tip-top shape? Is everything has to be ready by the time that they show up, and the stress that can come with that. And just being able to, like, your awareness right now, just working through releasing those emotions that we all feel in those situations, then it's going to make the experience that much more enjoyable. Because it's actually an invitation to— it's not you and Matthew get everything together for them. It's, hey, welcome to our space. Join us in this experience. Let's all work on this together. And now everyone joins you in being the energy drivers and everyone joins you in creating this meal. And it's like, hey, how about you take care of this? Here's all the utensils. Help yourself. Like, you make the salad, you make this, and just kind of being like, okay, let's all relax into that. And that can be very, very hard as a host.

Yeah, I agree. But I like what you said too about It being collaborative. I actually just read a post the other day of like how to communicate your needs during the holidays. And that was one of them. I'd actually love your help this year, like cooking, or could you take care of this dish, or whatever the situation is. And I was like, oh, and it's more fun because you're cooking together.

Yes.

And I always remember my Nana, I would like insert myself into her cooking experience because one, I don't get to spend as much time with her as I'd like to, and she's always in the kitchen. So I'm like, well, if we're gonna spend time together, I need to like insert myself into this experience with her. So I just started showing up to our big Christmas dinners. I just started showing up hours and hours beforehand. I love that. And I'd be like, okay, let's go. I'm ready. Put me to work. And like, then there was like this trust built, right? Where she's like, okay, I trust you to make this. And all now, like some of my most fond memories over the last couple years with my grandma have been us preparing Christmas dinner. I love that. So it's like, okay, how could I be robbing someone else of that experience with me because I'm being stubborn and trying to be perfect?

That's a great point. Like the typical that you hear, like, get out of the kitchen, you're just going to ruin it. Perhaps you're like, yeah, they might ruin the dish, but you're ruining the memory, the core memory and the bonding experience.

Yeah, exactly. So anyways, that's what I'm in between right now. Good things ahead. Feeling healthy, feeling mentally stable.

Yeah, we love that. We love a mentally stable queen.

Oh my gosh, should we talk about confidence?

Yes, yes. Where do you want to start with that?

Okay, so I want to talk about, for you, what do you feel like are the layers to confidence and the differences between Oh, that girl's so confident. And maybe it's rooted in a lot of external factors, which I can, like, you know, the way she looks or like the way that how we achieve things or how much money we make. Like, there are some external factors that can sometimes make us feel more confident. But what I've found is they don't last. They're like a boost, but they're not like a sustainable source of confidence. And like the difference between that and like sustainable foundation, this is what I talked with my coaching clients, it's called foundational confidence.

Mm-hmm.

So it's like rooted in knowing who you are, what you stand for, how you advocate and use your voice for yourself and others. Like showing up for yourself in a situation when you normally wouldn't, removing yourself from a situation that you don't need to be in. Like, all that takes an element of confidence that is not rooted in whatever's happening externally. It's rooted in like you knowing and showing up for yourself. So that's kind of where I like to start. Yeah. Yeah.

That's such a, such a beautiful way to walk into this conversation that can be so wide.

Right.

And I feel like in my personal experience, I feel like I had a lot of confidence in external factors, like a relationship. And whenever I went through a huge heartbreak, that's what made me realize that there was not much me left, like how much confidence I had in that.

Interesting.

And so that's when I started therapy, and that's when she started asking me, like, how are you feeling? And suddenly I realized I didn't have the words to— I didn't know what I felt. She's like, well, what do you want to do? And I couldn't communicate, couldn't feel. I didn't know who I was. I was so lost. So I think an element of confidence is before you can build your confidence, you have to audit your confidence and realize where is your confidence coming from right now? And what are those lies about yourself that you're believing and have believed for a while that then you need to do the hard work of deconstructing to then build up. But you can't build on top of trash. You can't build on no foundation. And so it sounds perhaps lovely, but it's actually a very heartbreaking experience and a very hard experience. And I'm getting a little bit emotional as I think back to when I was building my confidence because it really took realizing all these lies I believed about myself. And actually my therapist had me write that stuff down and grab a picture of when I was a child. I think I was 3 or 4 in that picture. And just looking at myself as a kid and all these lies I believed about who I was, the way that I looked, what I deserved, all these different elements, connecting that and being like, no, she doesn't deserve this, was really huge for me. And so I think that if you can start being honest with yourself, what do you believe about yourself?

Yeah.

Like, if you were to sit down and do like a solo retreat, how do you feel in your own body? Do you feel uncomfortable? Do you feel anxious when you're alone? Can you communicate or feel and say, I'm feeling sad, I'm feeling overwhelmed, I'm feeling— and I think a lot of confidence comes from trust and trust in ourselves and regaining our trust. And so being able to feel the feelings, being able to keep promises to yourself, being able to commit to the process. So if you are deconstructing these thoughts and behaviors and you're going to therapy to work on them, then that consistency of going to therapy every week. Is building trust in you. If you're deciding to journal every day, that's building trust and confidence that you can do it. And suddenly you're becoming more confident. If you are deciding, I'm going to work on boundaries and I'm going to learn to communicate them, every time that there's an opportunity for a boundary and you actually do it, that's when your confidence goes up. So I feel like you can't— even though there's so much incredible knowledge on how to build your confidence, I feel like that's almost chapter 2 to a very important chapter 1. And it's hard, but it's essential to building that trust and confidence.

Astra just took us all to church. I don't know if you all felt it, but the spirit was moving. And that was amazing. Like, the couple of quotes that stick out to me is around The like you can't build something foundational on top of trash, and then like the auditing, the auditing your confidence before you start to build confidence. You need to audit where your confidence is at right now. Let's talk about that. Let's go a little bit deeper in like the auditing stage. Let's do like a in marketing we call these retros, like a retrospective. Let's go deeper and like let's do some. Some reflection on that. So for me, reflecting on where I was finding my confidence, and actually, when I lost one of my best friends, Abby, at 25, that was actually a really interesting— one of the unexpected things that came from her loss was how much I reevaluated where I found my confidence from. Because I realized a lot of what I had put stake in, of how I valued myself, was what other people valued in me. You know, oh, you think I'm this? Okay, well then I think that about me. You know, and that could be something positive or something negative. And through the grieving process, I realized that so much of that was on very unshaky ground. Because when my extroverted, energetic, charismatic personality went away because I was depressed, I stopped getting that compliment. And that was just one example. And so it's like, okay, well, I can't stake my entire confidence on my personality type. And that's hard too, or being an extrovert or being stylish or whatever qualities that you Have that someone has called out in you that have, have helped boost up your confidence. And I had a part of my soul searching was kind of doing a bit of detachment from what I learned to value and even like who my family thought I was, who my friends in high school thought I was, which no one ever talks about how pivotal freaking high school is.

Truly.

To your 20s. Like 20, everyone wants to talk about like your young under 10 self, which yes, a lot of stuff is very formative there. But I feel like there's so much that you learn about yourself socially in high school.

Mm-hmm.

And I had all of these narratives from high school that just followed me around and how much I had clung to them as like, you know, what it said about me. And I needed to go back there and like deconstruct some of those things. And like you said, it is very hard. It isn't this shiny experience. It can be really gratifying. It is gratifying, honestly. And there are fun parts to it as well. But it starts with the auditing piece. And I wonder if rating on a scale of 1 to 10 how you feel about yourself In like certain areas of your life. Like Astrid mentioned, how do you feel in your body? Where— what's your anxiety level in social situations? Um, how do you— how would you rate your ability to communicate your needs?

Mm-hmm.

Um, how would you rate your, um, awareness of your value system? And like kind of getting a, um, even on a scale, sometimes that helps me when I like circle a number. I'm like, oh, I'm a 3 out of 10. Um, that can help me realize, like, one, I've— I still have, um, I'm still making progress and there's room for me to grow. And it can, like, spark different ideas on how to grow in those certain areas.

Yeah. So powerful. So powerful. I think, like, sometimes those very hard situations in our lives, like losing someone that you love or experiencing deep heartbreak or any kind of pivotal change, Mm-hmm. Can— is so painful and can also be that point that changes our lives forever. And I think be able to break down, like you said, your value system of what is it that I actually value in life? Because the truth is, what I value is not what you value, is not what anybody else values, and vice versa. And so if we're consistently just measuring our lives by the approval of others, Then it's such an exhausting experience because you get approval here, but then you don't get it here for the same action.

Mm-hmm.

And then you get conflicting, and you're like, well, then what's true and what's right and what isn't right? And so I think being able to find like what it is that like God put you on this earth to do, who did God create you to be at your core before anyone's tainted views come into play? Is crucial and being able to then communicate that externally. And like you mentioned of not seeking that validation, while that validation feels great and it's great and it's also great to get support from healthy friends when you're like, I think this is what I want. And then you make the decision, they're like, yes, dude, I've been waiting for you to make this decision for the longest time.

Let's go! You're like, really? Okay.

But the fact that it's your decision. And so I feel like just being able to really break that down and just, like you said, do the audit of what are some areas where you're getting the most validation? And is that validation just a cherry on top or is it at your core feeding you? And to clarify, I don't think that you completely just close that chapter of auditing and then move on to chapter 2 of like, I'm super confident. No, we're constantly reevaluating. So in my case, for example, anytime I post on Instagram, I'm like, am I doing this for validation or am I not? And whenever I have low confidence or I'm having lows, I know I'm seeking that. So I will purposely not post because of that reason.

Yes.

And I hold myself accountable to that. And then when I can genuinely tell myself, I don't really care if anybody sees it, I'm just posting it because I think it's fun and that's it, wonderful, post it, right? But being able to walk yourself through that honesty layer consistently is just more of a practice than it is like, oh, I'm healed from that. It's not like Alexis and I are speaking from we are super confident queens. No, by any means.

Nope, still very much on my journey.

Yes.

Another thing as you were talking that I like that you use the word practice because it's like doing some reflection, knowing where your intentions are, and then using that to inform action can be really helpful. And so whenever I was on my health journey over the past year and a half, I felt a lot of— I'm going to be very vulnerable here. I felt a lot of affirmation when people would tell me that I looked good. And it's like, oh, well, you look so good. And in my head, I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, like using that as fuel. But then there was this other voice in the back of my head that was like, did I not look good before? See, this is just more evidence that we didn't look good before. And so we need to keep going so that we never look like that again. Which is a really— it's a mindfuck a little bit. It's like, you know, you want to keep going. And then people are encouraging and being kind and supportive to your journey, but then you use that as a reason for why you were bad, for why wherever you were wasn't good enough. And that's not what anyone was communicating to me. That's just how I internalized it, which is mine to take responsibility for. You know, Mm-hmm. I am very thankful that so many people in my life have been very kind and very supportive to me on this journey. But there came a point, and Matthew and I had a lot of conversations about this, where I was like, I feel like, I don't know how to explain it, around needing it, wanting it moving forward. And even like you said, why am I posting this? Is it because I'm wanting validation or I'm wanting someone to say that I look good? And I don't know, for women who are on any kind of journey, like, I remember, I remember back in the day, Facebook profile photos. I remember I had just got out of a relationship and I had just gotten my hair done, as one does.

Yes.

It's like, oh, just got my, my heart absolutely annihilated. I'm gonna get my hair done.

I'm gonna look hot.

I'm gonna look hot. It's like the typical selfie with literally with the caption, this is in January, literally with the caption, new year, new me. You know what I'm saying? And it's like you post those kinds of things because you're looking for a reaction. And a part of this process, whatever this looks like for you, whether it's social media, whether it's celebrating your work and talent in the workplace, whether it's in your relationship looking for affirmation from your partner, whatever it looks like. I think it's really important for us to be honest with ourselves with why we do those kinds of things and how can we give that to ourselves first without needing to get it from others.

Yes.

And so that's been like the journey I've been on is like, how do I hype myself up? How do I lift myself and love myself and honor myself and respect myself So that I don't have to need it from other people. And that has been— that I think is that state between stage 1 and stage 2 is also realizing not only just doing all this reflective work on where you're at and where you're getting confidence, but a big part of trust and confidence is love and empathy and respect and honor for yourself.

Yeah.

I think it's really difficult to build foundational confidence and sustainable trust if you are not being loving and kind and empathetic to yourself in that journey.

100%. And you just took us to church. We're just flipping back and forth on being preachers today.

Reverend Astrid and Alexis.

Oh my God. No, seriously, thank you so much for, for your vulnerability and honesty, because that's something that so many of us walk through in all the different areas of life. And it's going to consistently happen because we all have these ebbs and flows. And so it's like, oh, I'm not feeling secure in my relationships. Then you try to sabotage that or try to get some validation, like, well, tell me how you really feel, right? Like all these different things. And it can just lead to a place where, again, we're seeking that outside confidence that is so temporary and it's just a little hit rather than that internal one. And I think that's the most important part is building that trust within yourself. Like you were mentioning, you got to build that confidence inside first. You got to love yourself, you got to respect yourself. And I think it's really, you can only love others to the degree you love yourself. You can only respect others to the degree that you respect yourself. And so I think being able to also say, my relationships are going to be so much healthier if I am not searching for that out of a place of lack, but rather out of a place of, I already accept myself. And thank you for sharing that. Thank you for seeing the work. Thank you for validating that I have been walking through this journey. But I am not seeking it in others. And I think that's even an element for sure of dating, right? A lot of people, I think, if you're not able to walk yourself first through those, fulfilling those needs.

Mm-hmm.

So going on solo dates, taking yourself on trips, having hard conversations with yourself, affirming yourself, all these different layers, then you can tend to think, I need this from a partner. And so you're searching for that in a partner to give you that confidence and fulfill all of that, rather than, I already have everything I need, how can we come in partnership? And confidence, I think, plays a huge role in relationships, and sometimes even toxic relationships where you're trying— you're getting that confidence from somebody else, which is what happened to me in certain elements. And then I was left to figure all of that out, right? So it's a full circle of how that Works in our minds and in our hearts too. Yes.

And you also said something, the word acceptance, like triggered a whole other part of this conversation. Like, what role do you think acceptance plays in building internal confidence?

Oh, it's everything. Acceptance of the good, the bad, the ugly, like that is you. Acceptance of what has happened to you. Acceptance of The lies that people said about you and the fact that you have internalized them. I think when we're in that gray area of we know we don't feel right in our body, we know we don't love ourselves, but we are not wanting to look back and see where it comes from, that's when the deep lack of self-confidence sits and just festers around and we just keep ignoring it. But when you're able to look back and see the roots and see everything and accept and be like, you know what, somebody said that I was too much, but actually I'm not too much. I like that I'm bold. I like that I speak up. I like that I'm confident. And yeah, sometimes I might cross the line, but that's okay. I'm learning how to navigate this gift rather than I speak too much, right? And so giving ourselves that grace of like, I have skills that are never going to be perfect and I am learning how to navigate them. But again, you have to look back and identify what is that lie that somebody said or something that you internalized too and say, that's not me. Let it go. I think so much of our confidence just comes from identity.

Absolutely. And a part of identity too is not hiding what you might think are flaws. And I think that's like a part of acceptance and a part of confidence is like, I think in the last couple of years, it's like owning the fullness of who I am in all of my complexities, in all of my layers, in my duality, in my hypocrisy, in things I do over here but don't do over here. It's like owning all of those things is a part of confidence because if I'm only here only praising the things about myself I like, but then I'm hiding or suppressing the things about myself I don't like, that's also not going to build sustainable trust with yourself because you're going to feel split. And this is something I have struggled with for a portion of my life is living 2 different lives, is externally being this way and internally or with some, you know, group of people being this way. And they're very, very polar opposite. And so I had this internal duality and conflict of who am I? Am I this person or am I this person? And I think whenever I stepped into who I really am and accepting those parts about myself that were hard and that I didn't necessarily like and was working to heal, I was able to bring those into my relationships and talk with you about them and talk with Matthew about them and open up to them even on the internet. Like just being honest about the things that we sometimes feel like we need to hide are actually an opportunity for genuine, authentic connection.

Yes.

Instead of like putting out this fake, perfect life, it's like, it's absolutely exhausting. And, you know, it's also normal to want to do that too. So there's no shame in, in that. It's just recognizing, like, is this going to be sustainable for me, or am I exhausted all the time?

Yeah, yeah. And I think too, the people around you are most likely gonna already accept those things about you. Like, they might even already see it that you haven't even accepted about yourself, and they're like, yes, honey, like, you run late all the time, like, you need to work on that, right? Like, all these different elements of it. But just having that vulnerability of being like, okay, I accept myself I am willing to share this with someone before it's all perfectly wrapped up, or I have an action plan of how I'm going to tackle it. It's just here's how it is, and just being able to say, okay, I'm going to move forward in this direction, right? And I think another element too of self-confidence is being willing to step into what like kind of stepping into the second layer of it, being able to step into your full self. And communicate that to everyone and not feeling like you're being too much or too egotistical or too— just take up space. I think that's something that I've been working on that's hard for me is to take up the space when it comes to confidence. Wear the funky things no matter who says anything. Quit your job. Who cares what they say? One thing, actually, a huge thing that I learned from my mom was— So whenever my dad passed away, I was 11, and then she remarried later on. And there was a lot of people trash talking her and her marriage and like, oh my gosh, she moved on so quickly. Or like, oh, this probably was going on beforehand. Just like craziness, absolute craziness.

Mm-hmm.

And she was like, you know what? That was hard. And if I would've listened to them, or if I would've listened to what people had to say, I wouldn't have the marriage that I have now for 15 years. And I would be alone and I'll be by myself. So she's just like, I remember her telling me this about 2 or 3 years ago. She's like, you just shut off all the noise because no matter what, they're not in your house, in your everyday life. They don't see everything and it is your decision. And so they're not— they're going to think about it for a split second and then move on with their lives. And so I think that just speaks to the importance of advocating for your needs. advocating for what you want and not letting the sound of everybody else come in and just really step into who you are. Like, what are you going to regret a few years down the road not doing right now in life just because you were too scared?

I love that. And I hate that your mom had to experience that. And her ability to see through that and see what was on the other side for her is so beautiful. It also brings up this interesting dichotomy of like, listen to other people's advice and really, you know, ask other people for like what— like there is that like seek wisdom and, and see what other people think. And I think like it also, what could we be losing by listening to the wrong people? And I think like when you do listen to the wrong people, which is not always easy to decipher of like who's the right people to listen to and who's the wrong people to listen to, we— it's like that can be a That's a sticky situation in and of itself. But like, ask yourself, you know, who do I trust more in this situation? Do I trust myself or do I trust this person who knows a fraction of my life and lived experience?

Mm-hmm.

And so, um, ask yourself, like, what could you be losing out on right now because of the story someone told you whenever you were 15, or because of the advice someone who knew very little about you gave you in your life? And now you're in this life where you've made the decision and you're like, man, I wish I would've trusted myself.

Yeah.

And it's not too late. Like, it's not too late to invite more of that trust in. And I like listening to other people. And I think that through my own journey through confidence, it's I have to come to me first. I have to come to me first. And like, then if I really feel like I can't land on something, and I really feel like I'm struggling to process with something, then I'll seek outside input from trusted people. But it's like, I think that's another part of sustainable confidence is like where we're getting our advice and where we're getting our wisdom from and making sure that it's from people that, you know, we really feel like have our best interest. Or, you know, even people that have our best interests don't always give the best advice too.

Yeah.

So it's like, it really has to come back to That trust that you're building with yourself.

100%. 100%. I think being wise about who you let speak into your life. And when it comes to that too, in the element of confidence, sometimes one thing that I learned through my process was my default, if something was going on, was to get everyone's advice first, then decide what do I need, what do I think, what do I, et cetera. Now I still seek for advice, but I flip-flop those. So before I even tell everyone, I process, I sit down, I trust, I create that space for me to speak to me, for me to be like, okay, Astra, let's have a real talk. Why are you having these feelings? Why did you suddenly feel the need to cry? Why did you feel angry? Let's process together. Let's journal through this. And then I also feel like the people around me can can give better input because I know myself better and I can communicate to them better what's going on.

Yes.

And have more context. But I think if I would say it right off the bat in a situation, be like, these were the events, they could have the best intentions, but I am the communicator who isn't doing a good job at passing that through. And so that element of giving myself the space to process, to feel, to think creates so much confidence because I am now sharing again from a place of, and you're adding to my life, you are not creating my life, which is very different.

Again with the quotes. Oh my gosh, that's so good. I love that. I love you so much.

I love you.

Yeah, you're so right. Like the ability to communicate the advice that you're Seeking plays a role. And that's such a, that's such a good point too. Um, gosh, this has been such a good episode. I've really enjoyed this conversation with you and sharing openly and vulnerably. And I hope that, um, as you've listened, you know, you have taken away certain things that you might want to apply or even just things to process and reflect on, you know, where you're at in your life with confidence. And how much you trust yourself right now and doing a bit of that auditing. Anything else you want to add before we wrap up?

Yes.

You're like, I'm not done.

I have a question for you. What do you feel like right now is the element that is most contributing to your confidence? Ooh.

Contributing to or taking away or both? Both.

Let's do both.

I think what contributes to my confidence the most right now is knowing that I've always found a way.

Hmm.

And I think that when I look back at all the common threads in my life, and it hasn't always been me, it's been family, it's been privilege, it's been other things, other elements at play. But no matter what, when I do feel like I'm in a corner, my back's against the wall, and I'm not quite sure how to make a decision, I have always found a way through. And I think that I trust that, and I trust my ability to adapt and my ability to pivot.

Mm-hmm.

I think that really contributes to my confidence and my belief in myself. And then also the habits and the rhythms that I've built for for my life. I think where I am now in my late 20s to my early 20s is just very different. And I, I find confidence in my routines and in my systems. And I'm still building a lot of those. They're not perfect, but I do feel like I am happier and I have really good sustainable energy in my life because of the way that I live my day-to-day. So I find a lot of trust in that. And then things that take away from my confidence. I would say the biggest thing I struggle with is on the— it's really just business. If I could pinpoint one specific area of my life that I feel the most insecure about, it's my ability to take an idea and turn it into something.

Mm-hmm.

And have a deep impact that I want it to have, it always feels like up in the air. It's always like, can I really do it? Am I going to be able to have the capacity for that if it's successful? And so I think that those things chip away at my confidence to take action because I'm afraid of being able to be the person to manage the successful thing. So yeah, it's a very interesting back and forth. And then another thing that I have recently kind of realized in taking away confidence or something that has impacted my confidence is I've spent the majority of my 20s around really, really successful entrepreneurs who make multiple 6 figures, multiple 7 figures. And those have just been individuals that I've had the opportunity to connect with, to work with, on the business side, but not ever as Alexis Teichmiller, but always representing a brand, always representing the company that I work for. And I think that watching them, it normalizes that it's possible, but there's this line in the sand that maybe it's not possible for me.

Hmm.

And so I'm always just meant to be on the brand side, on the business side, but never actually the full-time entrepreneur. And so that's definitely been something that I would say, like, over the last 4 years in particular, has played a really prominent role in my confidence.

Thank you so much for sharing and for answering that. I think that no matter what, you know, from an outside perspective, it's like, Alexis has it all figured out. You know, everyone always looks at other people as like, they're so confident. And I really appreciate your vulnerability in sharing that because it's like we're consistently growing through our confidence in different layers, in different stages of our lives, in different aspects of it. And it's just beautiful to also see that area, like what's providing the confidence right now of you've always figured it out, came from deeply painful situations where you're like, Am I gonna figure this out? And so it's just a really interesting way of like how growth comes and plays into it and how putting in the work then ends up paying off over the years where you're like, actually, yes, I can trust myself that no matter what life throws our way, we're gonna get through it. We're gonna be proactive in that. So thank you for being so vulnerable with that.

Oh yeah, thank you for holding the space and for always being an easy ear to share those kinds of things with. What about you? Where are you currently sourcing some of your confidence from? And also, what are areas that you feel like kind of drain or chip away at your confidence?

Actually, that was just a question for you. We can— I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

I had to do that. You don't have to answer. You actually don't have to answer. There's no pressure.

I'm kidding. I am just kidding. Genuinely. I just wanted to hand you crap.

Oh my gosh. Got me forgetting for a second that we were recording a podcast. You're like, oh yeah, yeah, I'm not sharing.

Okay, for me, what's contributing the most to my confidence right now is I feel like I've really worked at my communication with myself, my awareness, and being able to process through really complex emotions and identify like where they're coming from, why they're there, where's the trigger, all these different elements of it that specifically in the past few months, it's like, dang, I can really get through those emotions and thoughts quickly. And so I feel like that can give me the clarity that I need to ask for advice or make a decision or speak up or move forward or whatever. Like, I feel that confidence that I I came from a place where I never even knew what I felt. And then now I can in a second be like, this is what I'm feeling. This is why. This is the root. This is the trauma trigger. Like full diagnosis, basically.

That's amazing.

So that's right now contributing to a lot of my confidence. And then I would say what's taking away from it is I think when you experience some deep traumas in your life, and I've had 2 really big traumas, one in childhood and one as an adult in my 20s, rebuilding that trust with yourself in how you make decisions. And is this a trigger? Is this an action from my past or is it not? Or can I trust people again? Like, well, this feels familiar. Like, What are they hiding? How are they gonna like turn around and, you know, all these things. And so it comes back to what builds my confidence too, because then I like can stop those feelings and be like, okay, if that does happen and they do make those decisions that are similar to my past, that is on them and not on me. And I can still choose my own decision. So it's very much an in-between. It's very much a cycle, I feel like, of the season that I'm in. But yeah, it can just be— I feel like it just takes the ground under my feet to not know. I guess that's what was happening before is I thought I had solid ground and then suddenly everything just got ripped off. And so now just rebuilding that confidence, it takes years, it takes a lot of time, and that's okay. You got to be patient with it. But yeah, that's where I'm at with my confidence journey.

I'm proud of you. Similarly, the thing that gives you confidence is also rooted in the thing that can chip away at confidence. It's very interesting, the relationship that they play with each other.

Yeah.

And I just wanna honor like your ability to communicate through that. As like, I recently, you shared something where you're like, this happened. And I was like, and then you just told me everything about it. And I was like, wow, how long did it take you to figure that out? You're like, oh, just like a minute. I was like, oh my gosh.

Like that.

You're like, yeah, it was about a minute or 2. I was like, wow, that's incredible. And I'm really proud of you for like—

Thank you.

Giving space to those situations where when you take time to check in and to to bring a pulse to whatever happened, it then can inform the action that you want to take. And I think like a lot of times when we don't pause to figure out how we're feeling, to check in, to ask ourselves, what just happened? Why do I feel that way? What came over my body? I feel this trigger from something that happened in the past. How is that showing up now? When we don't necessarily do that, it sometimes results in us taking action or inaction in a pattern that ends up hurting us.

Yes.

Or ends up causing us sometimes more pain or discomfort or whatever the situation, frustration, because we aren't really clear. We don't have clarity on how we're even showing up and being present in the moment because we haven't checked in with ourselves mentally or emotionally. So witnessing you do that has been such a call to me. And I've been doing that in my life a lot more. Really zeroing in on like, okay, what just happened there? That's interesting. Um, and I don't think that we need to over-dissect everything, um, because that can be very exhausting as well. But like those big moments where like, okay, something literally just like something's really coming up here.

Trigger.

Yeah. I want to honor this and I want to dig into this. Um, it's been really beautiful to watch you navigate that and, and be a witness to it and, and see it in practice.

Thank you, friend. Thank you so much. I think, you know, building confidence can sound so glamorous, but really it's a practice of loving yourself, of listening to your needs, and then of communicating them. And like you said, you could end up hurting people around you or taking actions that you'll regret later just based out of those emotions you're feeling in the moment. So if anything, I invite all of us to just take an extra minute, day, week, what you need To decide what is it that you're feeling? How do you want to approach it? And even if, quote unquote, it's the wrong decision, it won't be because you're creating that practice of self-confidence of I am processing, I'm giving myself space, and then I'm communicating it to people. And that's a beautiful, hard practice to do. So this has been so lovely. I thank you for bringing this topic up. I, um, you know, didn't expect— like, I didn't know where we were going to take it, but It was so great to chat with you through this, and hopefully all of you that are listening had some takeaways from this too. And if there's anything that you're wanting to reach out to us about, our DMs are always open. You can find the podcast at inbetween.pod. My personal one is @astrajohannaphoto.

And my personal Instagram, reach out anytime, is @alexis.teichmiller. And yes, thank you so much for listening, for being a part of our podcast community. We love you. We love having these conversations. We, we love normalizing the depth, the complexities, the fun that friendship can look like, that it looks like when you're on your own journey individually navigating all of life's highs and lows. And we hope that this podcast can bring you a source of comfort and some laughter and make you feel seen. So if you resonate with the show, we would love for you to leave a review on iTunes or Spotify. Those really help us, you know, the good old algorithm. They help us show up in search when other people are searching for podcasts similar to our show. And we just love hearing from you. And it would mean a lot to us. So feel free to do that on iTunes or Spotify, or do one even better— screenshot your podcast player, jump over to Instagram and tag us @theinbetweenpod, and we can know that you listened to today's episode and we can have a deeper chat with you in the DMs. Well, we are looking forward to our episode next week, and we will see you then.