City vs. Small Town Living

Welcome to The In Between Podcast. I'm Astrid.

And I'm Alexis. And we're 2 best friends on a journey to living a fun, intentional life.

We know it's easier to share on a season of life once it's behind you, but what about when you're in the middle of the growth, confusion, and decision-making?

This lifestyle podcast is for the everyday gal who loves to travel, talk about business, relationships, fashion, and everything in between. Hello, hello, and Welcome back to The In Between Pod. I am one of your co-hosts, Alexis.

And I am your other co-host, Astrid.

And I'm really excited about, one, the fact that the show is growing and we've got this amazing community and it is just like unfolding above and beyond what I had ever expected.

100%. Right now we are recording about 3 weeks into my launching the podcast. And it's wild how many people have reached out, how many new friends we've made overall online too. And yeah, it just feels like our own little corner of the internet that we get to share with you guys a little bit about our lives and a little bit of everything really.

So I know— go ahead.

No, I was gonna say, which right now Alexis is recording from Portugal.

I am. It is It is 9:41 at night and it's all good because actually I have a group coaching call that I am not going to miss just because of time change that I'm doing at midnight tonight.

Oh my gosh. You're having a full-on party. I know.

I'm like, it's midnight, baby.

Let's go. We're building our dreams.

We're going after what we want in life. Yeah, I'm really excited. This has been a crazy Crazy experience. I feel like it's unlocked a lot of things in me since being here in Europe for the last couple weeks. And actually not even a full week. Tomorrow will be one full week. So one down and 4 to go. Um, but yeah, it's just been really cool to like almost test your growth, if that makes sense. What do you mean? I feel like there have been moments where certain things have happened or miscommunication. I just traveled with one of my really best girlfriends and I would notice when I would shut down a little bit. And so then I would tell her, hey, so this is what's happening internally right now and I'm just coming down off of that being stressful. And so I just wanted to communicate I'm not upset with you and I'm having a great time, but I really felt like my nervous system, my stomach hurts. And just being able to just communicate that in a friendship. And then she was able to just be like, oh my gosh, yeah, no worries. Thanks for letting me know. Take all the time you need. And it was just really cool to put that into practice actually.

Mm-hmm.

And I don't know, whenever you're reading about growth or even in smaller situations, you get to practice it. But there's nothing like Practicing all of the mindset stuff that you learn, unlike being uncomfortable traveling abroad. It's like such a privilege. And also there's so many things that you're just like, oh, I'm really uncomfortable right now. Yeah.

My hands are sweaty right now for you, sis. Just like you walking me through the whole scenario. But that's amazing. And it's also, I think, the importance of community. There's so much self-development and things we can do on our own. And there is certain things that we can just grow in community. And whenever we're surrounded by people, that's when we put into practice like, okay, I'm feeling off. Why am I feeling off? Like, now I can't just like be with this by myself because it's just me the whole day. I have to actually communicate it because somebody else has things that they want to do. Or they, like you said, like, hey, it's not you, it's me. Like, I'm processing the situation. And I just think that's such a beautiful example of a healthy friendship. There's so much guesswork that can sometimes happen in friendships. And I know we have that kind of on the line for a future podcast. But being able to talk about and communicate and be like, hey, I'm really tired today. Like, FYI, it's not you. Here's where I'm at. And let's just meet each other right there where we're at and let's do life together.

Yeah, I agree. It was actually really cool to see how much we have grown in our friendship too. And I definitely want to talk about that in a future podcast episode, just traveling with friends. But even when it came down to the food we ate, it was communicating like, oh, I'm really craving something fresh and healthy like a salad. And so then whenever we would look for restaurants, we'd be walking around, we would be on the same page.

Yeah.

And there's nothing like, even something as simple as what you want to eat or what you're craving, or like, oh, I had a heavier lunch, I'm craving something light for dinner. But the person you're with is wanting to go eat at a burger restaurant and you're like, I don't want burgers. Yes. It's just like the littlest things can really make a trip even more enjoyable because you're just communicating. But anyways, it's been great. And now I'm in a little solo portion of the trip, which has been interesting as well. And yeah, it's been good. And how have things been for you?

Yeah, well, I am coming off of a week of pretty much completely crashing after wedding season and traveling. And I think hindsight, I wish I would have taken a week between my wedding season ending to be at home and rest and then go travel. But at the same time, when I was traveling, I just didn't feel it. When you're just in that mode, you just go, go, go, and you're just having fun. It doesn't really matter. But I slept so much last week, and I would work, and I just couldn't stay awake. And I was like, what's wrong with me? Is there something that's wrong with me? And pretty much what you just talked about, of talking about it with a friend, of processing all these things, I was doing by myself. I was like, okay, am I sad? No, I'm not sad. Am I this? Doing all the checklist points. I'm like, maybe it's my vitamin D. Maybe I'm And so all these things, and finally I pinpointed it to, well, I did just finish a really tough season. It was my first season as a full entrepreneur. I'm running not just the photography side, but I'm also running my marketing consulting side of things. And that whole contract is a lot of bandwidth, and I brought on my first employee. And so it's just like a lot of different aspects of my life has just changed so much in the last 6 months.

Yeah.

And so just really giving myself grace of being like, this is kind of the first week since everything unraveled that you've kind of stopped and you're a little bit more settled in and your nervous system is like, okay, we're safe now. Like we're in a good spot. We can stop freaking out. Because I think before my adrenaline just kept me running of like, okay, what's the next thing I got to do? I'm going to work really hard because I was anxious about running out of money or something like that. And so, um, yeah, so I guess this is a little PSA of give yourself some time to rest. And if you really feel it in your body that you're exhausted, and it's not procrastination, it's not avoidance or laziness, because that's something that I kept feeling. I was like, I'm being lazy. And I'm all for routines and discipline, but you really just have to give yourself room and breathing room really to rest. So yeah, so that's kind of where I've been the last week. But before that, I was in Houston visiting you and then Dallas. And then tomorrow I'm getting ready to go to Malibu, LA area, which I'm excited for. Yeah, girl.

Well, I'm really proud of you because you're right. It has been— this is like your first busy wedding season being full-time CEO, full-time owner. And that does come with like a whole other layer of capacity. And like when you're opening up new capacity, it does take up your health and your nervous system can take a hit.

Yeah.

Because your brain is operating, your focus is operating at a completely different level. And so it's like draining your energy. And so then whenever you finally get to a place where your nervous system's like, okay, I'm safe, like we're good, we're not in like survival mode there, that was a little crazy. Now it like shifts into, okay, now I can take, I can take a nap. Yes. I'm so glad that you got rest and that you're feeling good. And I cannot wait to hear all about California. I just, I think that it's going to be a really good trip for you.

I am so stoked. And I'm excited that like my first few days there aren't in LA. It's in a more like secluded beach area, like Malibu type area. And so I get to create, which is one of my favorite things to do and just kind of, I don't know, explore a new city. I love solo travel. It really reconnects me so much. And I'm excited to see what this trip will bring.

Yeah, I'm really excited too. I know that you're in the middle of making a lot of different decisions on what's next and sometimes traveling and seeing what else. And that's honestly what this pod is about, city versus small town. But before we dig into that, we have to do our thing. We have to share what we're in between right now.

Our thing. Our thing.

We gotta go.

You know, I love this because today I was thinking about it. I was like, oh, we're recording a podcast. I'm like, what am I in between? And I just love that whenever we record, it makes me stop and think about that. And I almost want to think about that more consistently than just on the days that we record. But okay, so what am I in between? There is so Much. Let me grab something from the pile. Well, kind of relating to the topic that we're going to chat through today, I think I'm in between deciding where I want to live in the next few months, years. I don't know, like massive question mark there of I Grew up in a smaller town in Venezuela, then I grew up in a bigger city in Miami from like six years old to twelve or to seventeen, and then I moved to a really small town. And then now I've just really been feeling on my heart this year, like my heart is pulling me to a bigger city. But then I'm like, okay, is that is that the wisest thing to do? Is it not? Like why am I wanting to go in that direction? So I'm really in that. Curious stage is what I would like to call it, of like asking myself lots of questions. That's really how I like to make decisions and like give myself some time to really digest. Like, am I making this decision for the right reasons? Or am I trying to escape something? Or am I trying to search for something else that I actually could get here? And so yeah, so I'm in between that. And it's been both beautiful because every time that I travel now, I have that element of question of Could this be home? And then at the same time, then I grab pieces from that city and I'm like, I don't think it's home, but I love this part of it. And so, yeah, I think I'm just in that truly in-between phase of not knowing, but figuring things out.

Yeah, I love hearing too that you're so curious and like really sitting with yourself in the decision. It sounds like you are giving yourself a lot of freedom to explore instead of like leaning into the pressure of like you have the desire for something else. And sometimes that can like couple with pressure to figure it out now. There's like an urgency to it. And so it sounds like you're really giving yourself a lot of space to like be curious, ask yourself questions. And you've always been intentional. And also like, you know, you're a quick mover. Like, you know, you like to make decisions.

Mm-hmm.

I'm really proud of you for giving yourself that space. I'm sure that's hard too, but I'm excited to see what the next couple months hold for you. Thank you.

Me too. I'm excited to listen back on this podcast. It'll be very interesting once things kind of unravel. But what have you been in between? In between countries? In between oceans?

I feel like, gosh, I am not going to cry. I feel like I'm in between different versions of myself. And yeah, I think there's like a version of me that like really loves this lifestyle. Like, I don't know why I'm sad. I think that when you choose like to live abroad or you choose to do something differently, it does come with like an element of loneliness and an element of sacrifice. And like, I'm over here and I'm like, I can see Matt and I here. I can see us living abroad. It's also a dog city too in Lisbon. And so there's all these dogs everywhere.

Piper would love it.

I'm like, Piper. And it's like there's a part of me that's like, whoa, am I chasing that next thing? Am I just chasing the next thing? We just got to Houston. We just moved. We just got our house. And now I'm abroad and I'm building this whole life in my head here. And not whole life, but it is like there's feelings. There's feelings there. And that has been really interesting to like learn about myself is I think that I want a lot of different things. And for anyone who's listening who like feels like, like you just want to be normal. Why can't I just like want this thing and like just be happy with it? And it's like almost It's almost like there's always expansion. We're expanding, we're expanding, we're expanding. And it's like sometimes I just don't want to expand, you know? And like, I don't even know if any of this makes sense.

No, for sure.

I just feel this like tug for something more all the time. And I think I'm in between like letting myself explore that while also like really trying to stay grounded and like, okay, what is, what is real? What, you know, we're, we're romanticizing living abroad and, uh, because we're here right now. So I think it's just giving myself permission to and accepting that I want a lot of different things. And sometimes those things conflict and I might not ever have all of them. But giving myself the freedom to just explore and dream and daydream about them and not have to commit to plans. That's a big thing for me. So I think I'm just living in the moment and not committing to Okay, what's the next big thing that we're working on then, Alexis? Let's go. Snap, snap, snap. Okay, we just need to chill out. So that's what we do.

No, I love that. Thank you so much for sharing because that's extremely relatable. I think especially when you're multi-passionate or you just appreciate so many beautiful things about life that can be from one polar opposite to the other. How beautiful is it that you can love a small town life and also love a life abroad type of thing. And that's like the hard part of making decisions and moving forward where you're like, well, I want both. And so how do you choose? And it's kind of like that alternate universe thing where people are like, in an alternate universe, like maybe I would have kids by now and my life would be so different. In another universe, maybe I would— would've stayed in Miami and I would be doing a completely different career and I would be like, you know, maybe not even in marketing or photography or anything like that. And there's so many different aspects of that because, you know, you are so talented and you desire so many different things in life too. And that's so freaking hard because there's no right thing. And honestly, in a sense, I feel like most people feel that way. And perhaps it's just been marketed to us through movies and media that people just figure out their one thing.

Right. And they do it for the rest of their lives and they're happy forever. And it's like, I don't know. I don't know. And I do think that there are people that are really genuinely happy where they are and they can be there their whole lives. And I like— in a way, I legit envy that. Legit, like I'm like gosh, that would just be really lovely. But all that to say, I'm still processing that, and it's all good. I'm really grateful to be here, and I think that's a big element that I've really like leaned into was like I am really, really grateful. And you might be hearing a little bit of late night Lisbon traffic. That's real life. But yeah, just really leaning into the gratitude and like, this is a gift. This is a gift that I get to do this, that I have a job where I can work remote, where I have the means to travel. And those are things I really think about a lot and I don't take those things for granted. And then it's like, okay, what do I do with that then?

Like you're there. How do you soak it all in?

But anyways, Thank you for everyone that's been following along on the journey too. It's been fun to like interact with people being like, I didn't know that Portugal was like this. And I'm like, I know your trip.

Yes, let's do an in-between trip out there because we're all sold on it.

I'll do like an in-between retreat.

Well, yes.

Okay. So I mean, this is like honestly a really great transition into our topic around city versus small town. Yeah, city versus small town. And I kind of want to caveat the versus doesn't mean that they're against each other. It's just like we're kind of diving into our own opinions and experiences living in a small town and living in a big city and some of the pros and cons of those based on our own experiences. But I don't think that there's one way to live a life. We've already talked about that.

Right.

It's just kind of our version.

I love it. All right, well, let's get started on small town. So what are— what do you feel like is the biggest thing that you have loved about living in a small town? Or actually, first, before we dive into that, will you share your background on living both in a small town and on city life?

Absolutely. So I was born and raised in Midwest Illinois. Pretty much lived there my whole life. Even in college too, I went to like a small state school where like my graduating class in high school was 26 students. Like my small—

That's wild.

My small town was about 500 to 1,000 people. And it has grown since then. Then I went to a really small state school where the size of that town was like 25,000 maybe. And then right after I graduated college, moved to Nashville. It was a really lovely, like, mid-sized city. It felt huge to me at the time. Lived there for almost 5 years. And then when I married my husband, Matthew, moved to Houston, Texas, which was a big old bite to chunk out. And lived there for about 10 months. And then mid-pandemic, like right kind of in the middle of the pandemic, my husband and I moved back to our hometown in Illinois. Again, small town life. Lived there for 2 years and then just moved back to Houston. And now we're living in the city, inner city Houston. So that's my journey up to this point. I love it.

A little bit of everything. Yeah, a little bit of everything. Yeah, I think on my end, I pretty much shared it earlier on the podcast, but I grew up in Venezuela. It was like a mountain town pretty much until I was 6 years old. Then I moved to Miami, moved around in Miami a lot, but of course it's a bigger city. And then I didn't leave Miami until I was 17. So my senior year, and I went from Miami to a very small town in Illinois. And then I have lived here ever since. So it's been 10 years. And at the same time, in the last 5 years, because of my job, I've traveled a lot throughout the States, pretty much to different cities, but I've stayed living in a small town, which has been a fun mix of things. So, um, okay, well, let's dive in into what do you feel like has been the biggest pro for you in the times that you lived in a small town?

I would say like setting family and friends aside, right? Because that's like my hometown That's like a given. Of course, it's going to be family and friends and community.

Right.

Part of that is I do think that it is a bit easier to get connected in a small town really quickly. Like you can easily, you know, make friends at a coffee shop. Like it's just, it feels more accessible. Community does because it's in a small place. Um, and also everyone usually knows everyone in some way. So there's always like one degree of separation from someone that knows you.

It's wild.

It is freaking crazy. So I feel like because of that, even if I'm not close with someone, there's a probability that we know each other and there's a probability for connection, whether that be a friendship or business side of things. So I do think like the community element is really cool. Another thing I really like as well is the pace is very calm. It's very slow, and it's not that things aren't happening there; it's just that they happen at a different pace. And I'll loop back on that as also a con later. But I will say, like you know, if you're someone that struggles with anxiety or like you know travel being around large groups of people, small towns are really lovely for like. helping you kind of regulate your nervous system. Coming from a city back to Effingham during the pandemic was actually really very calming for me when I first got back. So that was a huge pro as well. What about you?

A little side note, it's very interesting that you mentioned like the friendship side of things and how like you can like meet so many people and kind of create all this connection in a small town, and you definitely can. And as someone who didn't grow up in a small town, moving to a small town from a large city to where everyone grew up together and everyone's basically family, and you're like the odd outsider and probably the only Latina at that point in the town, um, it was very different.

Yeah.

Like, you stick out as you know, like a sore thumb. And it's a little bit harder to kind of go into that community because it's not that people are mean because everyone has been so kind. They just don't think about it. Like they're in their own circle because that's the circle that they've had forever. And I think whenever you're in a bigger city, everyone's used to everyone kind of moving into town, leaving town. Oh, where are you from? What do you do? Et cetera. Here, you know everyone. So you're just kind of going about your everyday life.

That's a good point. And I'm glad you called that out. And I, I can see how that would be a really hard transition. And cities are more transient, right? And that's an expectation. Where are you from? Where are you going? Whereas in a small town, usually those people have been there for a very, very long time, like multi-generational, have lived there their whole lives, their whole lineage.

Yes.

So that's a good point. I can see how that could be. That would have been a really hard transition for you. And I'm sorry. Yeah.

Yeah. And I was very fortunate to have had people that welcomed me. And at the same time, I think for a while there, I only knew those like handful of people. And it wasn't until I started working more in the corporate world and really meeting people because of work That, you know, kind of I got— I was in, quote unquote. So that can definitely be hard, but also good. Like, once you're in, everyone is so nice and kind. I just think it's honestly something that people don't think about.

So I do think that, yeah, and this is like shifting into some cons, but I want to stay in the pro for just a little bit longer. Um, expenses. It is cheaper to live in a small town. Granted, like small town meaning not Breckenridge, Colorado, right?

Sure. Yeah.

Not being a touristy small town destination, right? We're talking about everyday small town. I'll never forget, I came back from Nashville. I was like 24 maybe. And I was used to like downtown Broadway, like going out with friends, being social, and things were just expensive. And, when I got back home, I was out with some friends at a local establishment, a local watering hole, if you will. And, I was like, oh, you know what? Next round's on me. No worries. I have a big girl job now. I was like, next round's on me. It was 4 or 5 of us. And, the bartender was like, that'll be $8. I was like—

Oh, my gosh.

I was like, there's 5 beverages here, 5 beverages. He's like, I know. And I was like, okay, here's your $8. And that was like one beverage in, if that. Yeah, if that. So like, it is, it is a lot cheaper. I will say that. Yeah. Matt and I were able to save a lot of money.

Yeah. I would say, I don't know that I would be a homeowner if it wasn't because I lived in a small town. Like from 2020, I had a very basic savings. And I went through a lot of stuff where it was like my finances were just pretty much— I was starting over. And from 2020 to 2021, I was able to save enough to buy a house last year on my own. And I definitely don't think I would have been able to do that if I had lived in Miami, because at that point in time, let's see, um, I got a roommate. And so rent for a full house for 3-bedroom, 2-bath was $800, which is crazy. And so, yeah. And so I wasn't paying much, which is—

Insane.

Literally. Um, and then on top of that, like in Miami, if I would've stayed there, my friends are paying at a minimum $2,000 for an apartment for rent. And so, um, yeah. So think about, and then the crazy thing is my income at the time I had a marketing job. Is also what you would make or what I would have made if I lived in Miami. Because I did like the comparison at one point. I was like, well, maybe I should move to Miami. I'll make more money. No, like the jobs are paying pretty comparatively, if not like somewhat less. And it really just depends, um, what industry you're in as well.

Yeah.

And so anyway, with that really low cost of living and then me having a side hustle, I was able to save enough money to buy a house now, and that's given me a lot of flexibility as well. So I'm definitely very grateful for that. And even when like the pandemic hit, I was on my own as well. And that was like a very nerve-wracking time for everyone. But knowing that my expenses were so little, it's like if I did lose my job, I had enough savings to like cover me for a little bit.

Right. Yeah. And that's a good point around, around how quickly I think that you can build wealth in a small town. Like, Matthew and I purchased our very first investment property. We renovated the whole thing out of pocket and we put it on the market, on the rental market. We have a tenant in there now. And then at the same time, we were able to save money to buy a house in Houston. Granted, we're dual income, no kids. So like—

Right.

I mean, I have to say, like, we, you know, we We're both making full-time salaries, um, and did not have like children or, um, a lot of debt as expenses. So that did help us, but we were able to do that because we moved home. Like, yeah, because we were in a small town. So I think in terms of wealth building, like startup capital to have a business, to get into real estate, you don't really need that much of it. I'm not kidding.

Yeah.

But to get into real estate in a city, Goodbye.

Oh my gosh, catch me in my 30s. I know.

And I honestly think that's why Airbnb in cities is so, is so smart as like your way of investing in the real estate market because it's a lower barrier to entry. Like, yeah, I can have a condo or like Airbnb arbitrage. I can rent an apartment, make a deal with the, with the landlord, and then put that apartment up on Airbnb. I'm covering the lease of the apartment, but I'm renting it out and I'm making like triple, quadruple what the, what the rent is anyways. Okay, I'm just telling you that it is harder, I think, in a city to like exponential x times growth your potential like investments if you're just like, you know, You know, you make a decent salary and we're not millionaires here. Right. And we also come from millionaires and we're also not getting seed money or investor money. I just think it's like easier to do it in town. Yeah.

And whenever I would fly back home for sessions and things like that, I was shooting a lot of times friends that I went to high school with. And it was very interesting to kind of chat through their lifestyle, their expenses, because they've been curious about moving. Outside of Miami to reduce their expenses. So yeah, it's really interesting. I think in your 20s, you're just in decision-making and like you're just making your big, you know, big girl, big guy salary for the first time too. And so yeah, I would also say a big pro for me for a small town is because there isn't as much competition. If you work really hard at something, you can really stand out and you can really like go hard at it and grow so fast in your career. And I think that was something that really helped me out is coming from growing up in a bigger city, the smaller towns were really behind on the times of where advertising was at in Miami and all these basic things that I knew, but I looked like a genius to them because they were so behind on the times. And so just kind of bringing that perspective into it really helped me Completely agree.

You are a big fish. Let's say it together, in a small pond.

Thank you.

You're gonna say that. For anyone listening to us for the first time, they're like, I don't get the inside joke. It's okay. It's something that I say a lot and it's like, do you want to be a small fish in a big pond, aka a city, or do you want to be a big fish in a small pond, aka a small town? And I think that's what you're doing. And I do think like that's one of the benefits is like if you have a business or you have an expertise, you can get really good, get noticed and be known for that in your small town. Whereas city, you know, you have a lot more competition. Let's start talking about some cons of small town living.

Okay.

Let's go.

Where— how about you go first?

You want me to go first?

Yeah. I'll go first.

I'd love to go first. Earlier I had talked about the community element of like, or no, I talked about pace. That's what it was. Talked about pace and how it's slower. That also means just like you were talking about with marketing and behind the times, I also feel like small towns are slower to change and slower to understand social issues and slower to understand like There's a world outside of the bubble sometimes that small town looks like, and that there are very real problems in the world that they might not see reflected in their small town.

Right.

And so because they don't see it on a daily basis, it does not seem real to them. And so when they see it on the news, or someone brings up a social issue or something that's happening in the world or in a larger metropolitan area, they just think it's fake, or they completely dismiss it. And I think that's one of the big cons for me with small town living is it didn't— a lot of the values around social issues and things I really valued weren't the same, or it was harder to find, you know, even just people that were neutral and could have a conversation around it.

Yeah.

I felt like it was always quite more, more charged than maybe it needed to be. Whereas I feel like some of the conversations I've had in one month of living in a city, it's just like so neutral or like positive, or you're on the same page, or maybe you think differently about it, but you respect— you're like, oh yeah, I can see where you're coming from, and then you just move on.

Yeah.

I feel like in smaller towns, my experiences were where that was more difficult. More difficult to do.

Well, and I think too, like, in a smaller town, everyone's kind of coming from the same background, similar. You go to the same grade school and you grow up together and you probably have some kind of farming family members and you just have similar upbringings. And I think whenever you grow up in the city, you realize there's so much diversity, there's so many different backgrounds and Me growing up in Miami, there was a lot of immigration from South America and a lot of immigration from Europe. And so whenever you met someone, you never really knew, like, did they— did their parents grow up there? Did their parents flee Cuba? Did they just come like a year ago and maybe they're learning English? Like, and so we kind of come with this mentality of asking questions instead of assuming. And so I think in a smaller town, you just kind of assume because everyone's coming from that perspective.

Interesting.

And so I feel like from a bigger city, you're like, oh, well, I, I had no idea that they did that like that in Cuba. Or like, one word that means something in Venezuela means completely different thing in Colombia. And so just something like that, you're like, oh, well, tell me, what does it mean in your country? And it gives people a voice. And you like ask these questions and you're okay with being wrong. And be like, oh, okay, like, this is how I grew up. Tell me about you.

Yeah, that's a really, really great point. It's like the assumption bias versus like curiosity bias. Like, which one is your default? I love that perspective. I think another, another con of, or just, you know, yeah, a con of small town living is you usually don't have access to like a ton to do.

Yes.

And so, you know, museums, concerts, art, like access to live music. And I mean, you might get glimpses of that, but that's not— you don't have regular access to it. And I do think that that's a part of what moves culture forward. It's what makes, you know, conversation, and it's interesting, and it adds a layer of like Wow, what a different way to look at the world because I went to this slam poetry whatever. Or like, I don't know, just you have access to things like that that I think kind of add a layer of culture and humanity to experience. And I think that you don't really get that in a small town and you do in a city.

Yeah. And I also think it's a layer of entertainment that isn't just drinking. So one thing that was—

Oh my gosh, no.

Yeah. The one thing that was really shocking to me moving to this smaller town is, um, like I grew up in Miami, obviously people drink, like that's just a thing. But at the same time, I grew up in an environment where people just had a drink or 2 and that was it. Moving here, everyone was like, if you're drinking, you're drinking to get hammered. And so going back to what you were just sharing of the different things that you can do and entertainment things. Like, there— if you're in your mid to late 20s or early 30s, there really isn't much for you to do besides stay home, go to the movies, be active, do something in nature, or go to a bar. And so you can't just, like, like you said, go to a museum or a cocktail bar that's just like a one-drink type of thing, or a comedy club. I recently went to a comedy club in Dallas. It was my first time. It was so much fun and I absolutely loved it. And so like you said, every single one of those experiences shapes you, exposes you to something different. It maybe taps into something that you might like more, or you're like, you know what, that's not for me, move on to the next activity.

Yes, I could not agree more. I think that like small town rural America has a lot of roots in drinking and like alcoholism. And I think that to be honest with you, I mean, this is like a whole other little spiel, but it's like, I find that people in small towns will be really harsh on drugs, but then they'll drink, which is also an addictive substance. That's just a very interesting mentality to have. I just think that being able to see a world outside of I need to consume something to be social is really important. I don't want to have to drink to be social and a lot of social environments in small towns usually are centered around that. Within the city, you have a lot more options, I'll say that. Yeah.

Which, a little side note on that, I've been seeing more and more cities pop up with mocktail bars, and I think it's amazing because you don't have to drink, and then you're able to have that social experience of, I'm having a fun drink and I'm hanging out with everyone, but without the alcohol portion of it. Because I've been on the side of TikTok of mocktails lately. And just overall, whenever you're working out and doing all these different things, like what alcohol can do obviously to your body. And so I think a lot more people our age specifically are more sober curious, like not even just like the, the social drink, or they'll go in seasons of just not drinking.

Yeah.

And so I love that cities now are offering more mocktail options, but even moving to having full-on mocktail bars.

Yeah, I think it's a— I think it's an incredible move. It's really smart. And I'm— I would say I'm very sober curious. I'll go through months of not drinking and then drink and then months of not— I'm just very interested in, uh, my relationship with it.

Mm-hmm.

And so I'm always kind of experimenting and testing with myself of like where I am with my relationship with alcohol. And so being able to take long breaks Yeah. I would say some other pros on a city that small town doesn't really give you is usually it gives you access to travel, whereas like small town, like you're driving, you're driving to another small town. Like, yes, where I'm from, it was like 2 hours to the closest city. And so, like, you're driving. city or to the closest airport. Whereas if you live in a city, you one, have access to an airport, but you also like, maybe there's train transit so you can take a train to the next city. Like, it just feels a little bit more accessible to go explore other areas other than like being in a rural, rural area. You don't have a lot of options to go see other towns.

For sure, girl. RIP the amount of time I have spent driving to the airport. I feel like I was thinking about this, and I think it's been since early last year or mid last year that I have traveled every month since. That was very poorly worded. Let me rephrase that. Ever since mid last year, I have said that I have traveled every month.

Yeah.

And so living in a small town, that's a 4-hour round trip every time. I feel like when I get to heaven one day, God's going to be like, you spent X amount of hours driving to the airport.

Wouldn't that be amazing if he just gave you like a receipt of all the hours and like ways that you spent your time?

As a girl that loves analytics and numbers, I'm like, give me that data, baby. I wouldn't call God baby, but anyway.

We get it. It's okay. It's okay. God is love.

Um, God is love. I have another one.

Okay.

So one thing which is a big thing for me right now is I feel like in bigger cities you have access to a lot more people your age, or in general just in all the different ages. So if you're recently retired and you're in your 60s and you want like more of a social life, I feel like a city is going to tend to having more of those kinds of friendships. But one thing that I noticed in my recent trip to both Dallas and Houston was just how much I've been craving meeting more people my age. And I'm just curious. I'm like, I want to be your friend. Tell me your story. What do you do? And just seeing so many entrepreneurs and just so many people my age, I crave that and I miss that so much. And I think it's also maybe a factor of like, I'm 27 years old and most of the people my age in this town have kids and are married and are just like in a different page in life than I am. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's just I also want to meet people that are on my page, right?

Mm-hmm.

So I absolutely love that about cities is that you can really have a wide, diverse group of friends. that are in different careers, different stages in life, different things that they're doing. Maybe they just quit their full-time job and they're going to be an entrepreneur, maybe vice versa. There's just so much more access to that.

Yeah, I agree. I also, just to piggyback off of that, I do think in a city it is more normalized to not have a quote unquote path. Whereas in smaller towns, I just, it's like you go to college, you get married, you have kids, you buy the house, you do all the things and it's like you're 30 and you've accomplished all these massive milestones. And I feel like in the city, you meet a 37-year-old and they're dating or they might be engaged or maybe they're single, whatever. It's more normal to not focus on age and the certain path that you're progressing to. Yeah.

Yes.

And I really love that. I love that a lot.

Yeah, I saw this TikTok the other day that said, if you're like 27 in a small town, you're basically 37. And if you're 27 in the city, you're basically 17.

I love that. That is hilarious.

It's so true.

I do feel like whenever I got back to Houston, I was like— because I think that whenever I was living in the Midwest just this past couple years, there was something about like my mentality that was just like, I'm old, I don't have enough Like, my dreams aren't gonna happen. It was just like this, like, pressure of, like, this clock, this internal clock that was ticking. Yeah. Now that I'm back in the city, I honestly feel like I can breathe a little bit. And I'm like, yeah, okay, like, I'm only 29, you know?

Yes.

I've got all this time, and, you know, I'm still young, and I've still got it. And, like, I still got it. And it just felt good to, like, reconnect with that younger person inside me that was not so focused on this timeline needing to be accomplished by a certain time.

Yes.

It's a little exhausting and it's usually projected or even subliminally. It's not even— it's like somebody says something to you, it's just you feel it. Like, oh, everybody around me is doing this or has checked this box and I haven't. And you're just like, well, like, what's wrong with me? So anyways, nothing's wrong with me. Well, I mean, there are things wrong with me, but—

Well, we're gonna open that door.

Let's talk about all my flaws. I'm kidding. I'm perfect.

Yes, you are. Yes, you are.

Yeah. Anyways, I'm like a little slap happy at this point, y'all. So just—

I love it. It's a, it's a long day. I mean, it's been a long day for me, but I can't even imagine for You, like, you've had all your adventuring, all your work, then now it's like side hustle time. And then hopefully you'll be able to sleep at like 1:00 AM.

My goal is to be asleep by 1:00 AM. That is the goal. But also I'm not glorifying the hustle because there's no other night this week that I have like these late of calls. So it's like I put it all in one day so that I can just go all through it. And then the rest of my evenings this week are chill and like spent with colleagues and making new friends. So I'm excited about that.

We love an efficiency queen.

Yes, we do. Let's put it all in one day, please. Let's make it as painful as die.

Yeah.

Okay. We can't really talked about is like I want to talk about the cons of the city life.

Oh yeah. Just really briefly.

Safety. Yo, yep. Safety.

I'm just gonna dive right in.

Safety and security.

Oh my gosh! Like in. small towns, I never think twice about it at all. People literally— I think my other house, not this one, but my other house, I'm pretty sure it was always open and I never once got robbed, which please don't do. Don't take my advice. I now have cameras and the whole thing. So also don't come for me if you know where I live. I've got cameras. But it's a very safe town. I feel like I can go for a walk by myself. I feel like I can do so many things by myself. I'm never scared. And then in the city, I like have a plan when I'm in the city. I'm like, all right, well, I will fill up gas before the sun goes down because if my shoot ends past sunset and then I'm driving back, I am not going to stop at a gas station by myself. And there's been times, right? So I think overall safety, especially as a single woman, and you travel by yourself a lot too. Um, it's just—

oh yeah, it's hard. And also, I'm here, I was like, I am in my apartment before dark.

Yeah, yeah, that's me too.

But no, that's, that's a good point about the safety piece for sure. And I, I do think that's an element of like peace of mind that, um, having security systems, things like that, which Matt and I do in our new house as well with lots of cameras and, you know, calls the police, the alarm, the whole thing. And that does give me like a sense of security, but But still, like, there's just so many more possibilities in the city. And that can be a good thing and that can be a bad thing.

It's a probability game. That's what I think about every time.

Probability of this happening to me. So I do think that is a con. I would also say I think it can be harder to go deep with people in a city when you first meet them. Like, I don't know, there's something about Midwestern people, at least that I've found. I don't know, there's like this groundedness or this like down-to-earthness that I feel like I can easily access from. I can tell when someone's grown up in like a smaller town because of their ability to like be more grounded. I don't know if that's I don't even know if that's the right thing to say. But I feel like people in the city are harder to approach. It's a bit tougher to crack some layers and build trust and go deeper. It is possible, but I think sometimes it takes several interactions to get there.

That's why I love this podcast so much because we both bring such different experiences to it. See, for me, I feel like it's backwards. And for me, I think that whenever I moved to the small town, or even now when I meet someone, I feel like sometimes because they've only been in one place their entire life and kind of followed that one straight line, it's really hard for me to relate to them because I come where I'm family of immigrants and we lived in a city, small town, struggled, did all these things. And I've just kind of been through it, you know, and not that they haven't, but I feel like it's a little bit more— they've been here their whole life. And so I feel like it's harder, even after quite a few hangouts, to get to that level with them. And that's why I think it's hard for me to find a lot of friends. I have a lot of acquaintances, but I have very few friends here that I can dive deeper into conversation. But I feel like in the city, don't get me wrong, there's still people that I just, you know, the more you try, just doesn't go anywhere. I have found more people who I can really connect to. They're more connected to self-development, and they're more connected to mental health. And sometimes those topics are not even a thing in a small town. They're like, what are you even talking about?

Yeah, no, and I appreciate that perspective because now as you're talking, I I do feel similarly. I just think that now that I'm in a city and it's fresh, I'm out here like trying to make friends.

Yeah.

And I just feel like that whole thing is harder. And maybe what really it is, Astrid, is like I came from a community where I've known the same people my entire life. And so it was just kind of built in. But you are right. Like, it is harder to relate to people. We have different, um, you know, we just have different outlooks and different paces. And I think that that can sometimes, um, you know, make you feel disconnected from them instead of connected from them. But I just think maybe it's just trying to build new friendships in general. And I think it's just hard in both a small town and a big city.

Yeah. And to, and to add to that, like I said before, I've never lived in a city where I moved there and didn't know anyone. I have always— I mean, I grew up in Miami. I grew up with those friends as well. And when I traveled back, I meet back with them. So in a sense, like, that's a familiarity. I was thinking more to like whenever I've met new people in other cities. But then again, they're usually connected to a friend that I have there. So I'm sure like also moving fresh to a new city, it's almost like dating in a sense, but in a friendship style of like, okay, you meet someone, you're like, dang, they're closed off. Like, that's not my vibe. Move on to the next group. And then you're like, maybe I'll meet someone at yoga class. Maybe I'll meet someone here. And you just like keep going. And it's still really hard to make new friends. Um, but I guess in a sense, I'm also going back to what's familiar.

Right. And I think that's just kind of like our nature in general. Um, But overall, I've really appreciated my upbringing in a small town. I think that it has really shaped the way that I view the world. And I'm also really grateful that I was curious and explored outside of where I came from. And it's really unlocked different parts of myself that I might not ever really have had access to.

Mm-hmm.

Um, in their full capacity if I would maybe have stayed in a small town. Um, but honestly, just like you said, alternate realities, like there's all these different versions of ourselves that could have played out and didn't. And I, I see live— I see city life for what it is, and I can also see small town living for what it is. And I think that I can now— I, I have not romanticized either.

Mm-hmm.

Finally getting to a place where I love my life, I love my partner, I love our house. And also I realized that living in a city comes with all these positive lovely things and also all these negative things. And then we just did that in a small town too. And so I think really it's just being honest with where you are and being like, these are the things I like, these are the things I don't like. And that's okay.

Right.

Instead of like, sometimes I think that when you're making decisions, every box needs to be checked. Like, well, this outweighs this and all these boxes are checked and these boxes over here are unchecked. I just don't think that any kind of lifestyle that you choose for yourself is going to check every box at all times. I just think it's going to be a really difficult expectation to have on your life.

Mm-hmm.

And, that's something that I've slowly started to unravel because I really thought that if I'm choosing this, everything has to be aligned at all times.

Yes.

And, I always think there's going to be some areas of life that are like, okay, okay, I've got this. Now, I'm going to shift over here and start growing over here. And then, I'm going to start growing over here. So, I just think giving yourself grace wherever you are, wherever you choose to live, it's beautiful because you're there.

Yeah. And I think also wherever you have to live too, right? Like choosing is a privilege.

Yes.

I think for me, moving to a small town, that wasn't a choice that I made out of craving living in a small town. And all these different things that we've just talked about was actually nothing that I was thinking about when I moved here. It was more out of necessity, really. It was out of Hey, there's opportunity here. I'm able to go to college. Cost of living is much lower. Like, I'm a senior in high school. What am I going to do? And for a little bit of background for like whoever's listening to the podcast for the first time, so I am a family of immigrants. And while that was like a really long process, um, I pretty much had to move to the Midwest to be able to go to college. And so for me, this small town represents opportunity in so many ways. Like, my life would have been so different, probably like straight out of college. And who knows what that life would have looked like. And I think for me, it was growing up seeing people work so hard. And that's part of what comes with the city life is like there's people who are so talented and incredibly driven and they have everything going for them. But they perhaps don't have the opportunity, or like things just haven't happened for them. And coming here and being like, I actually have access to both the opportunities, and now I just need to bring that hard work into this. Like, I need to take this privilege that I have and work really hard at it. And so I think that's something that not everyone has access to. And something that growing up in a city taught me is I saw a lot of really Talented peers that I went to school with, like, not be able to— oh, it makes me emotional— not be able to go to school, like, not go to college. Like, they were waitressing tables out of high school, and they had 4.0 GPAs, and they were so smart and had everything going for them. And so I think sometimes where you get to live or where you live is sometimes out of necessity. And so, yeah, I think for me, up to this point in my life, I feel that truly God brought me here at the right time and things kind of unfolded how they needed to. And I'm so grateful for all the opportunities that I've had, the people that I've met that have trusted me with their businesses to go for it. And at the same time, I don't think I would've grown as much in career if I didn't come from that background of like, I saw really talented people who just didn't get a spot at the table. So I'm going to do that for them. Like, I have a spot at a table. Who am I to like, just put, you know, push this to the side? So, um, yeah, so I guess a little bit of just sharing my heart on that. And it's really interesting to bring this full circle to the in-between moment that I shared earlier is this is kind of the first time in my life where I get to choose where to live and my business is not centered around any specific town, or I don't have to move to a town because of school or my parents brought me here. And so I think for the first time in my life, I'm in that privileged position to be able to choose where I get to go next. But I guess just a reminder that not everyone has that either.

That's so true. Yeah. And I'm glad that you brought that up. And I do think that that experience adds another layer of empathy and awareness for you of what your opportunities mean to you. And I do think it is important as we all navigate life to have that layer of perspective And empathy that not everyone gets the choices that you get and not everyone has the opportunities that you have. And, you know, some of this has been funny and some of this has been honest. And it's like, I think there's also a layer of, you know, everyone's different, has access to different things. And so if you have the opportunity to choose, like, that's a huge, a huge privilege for sure.

Yes, definitely. Well, this has been so fun. I absolutely love whenever we've been able to record together. Um, anything else that you wanted to add before we close things off?

No, I don't think so. I think that we really covered a lot of ground here, and I would love to hear, um, you know, for those of you that are still listening to the pod, I'd love for you to screenshot your podcast player and jump over to Instagram and tag us @inbetween.pod. And let us know what you took away from this episode. Like, what did you resonate with? What did you disagree with? Like, what did you laugh out loud at? Whatever it is, like, would love to hear from you. Astrid is the queen of our Instagram. She's the one that does everything and makes it look so amazing and all the branding. And so yeah, please tag us. Or if you want to connect with me directly, you can, you can do that @AlexisTeichmiller. Teichmiller. Yes.

Or you can connect with me as well at @astrajohannaphoto. And to add to that too, we would love to hear if you are living in a small town and you love it, or if you're living in a big city and you're loving it, or vice versa, like you are in a big city and wish you were somewhere smaller and more calm, and the other way around as well, because I think that's such interesting perspectives that we can all run into. Um, but yeah, we hope that you enjoyed this episode, and please message us any other topics too that you want us to cover, and we will see you next time.

And don't forget to leave a review because we— please, because we read them and we love them, and we're super grateful for, um, all everyone that's listening and giving us, um, such amazing feedback. We really appreciate you, and we will see you next time.