Doubling Down on Your Business and Tips for Scaling

Welcome to The In Between Podcast. I'm Astrid.

And I'm Alexis. And we're 2 best friends on a journey to living a fun, intentional life.

We know it's easier to share on a season of life once it's behind you, but what about when you're in the middle of the growth, confusion, and decision-making?

This lifestyle podcast is for the everyday gal who loves to travel, talk about business, relationships, fashion, and everything in between.

Hello friends, and welcome back to The In Between Podcast. Welcome back to another episode of The In Between Podcast. This is one of your co-hosts, Astrid.

And the other half of the pod, Alexis.

And today our entrepreneurial hearts are thriving because we're deep diving into what do you do once you've already been an entrepreneur for some time and you either are hitting burnout or you're exhausted or things are going really well, but you are just not having the capacity to think more long-term. So just really more of a lens into what it's like to grow a business. So I am so excited for today's talk. Me too.

I think it's an important, almost bookmark in time because it's like, okay, do I want to double down? What does doubling down look like? How do I double down in a way that still honors my values, my energy, my family, Like there's so many ways that we can grow. And then also maybe you're evaluating, you've been in business for a couple of months, a year, and maybe it's not working. Maybe you're frustrated or the product market fit isn't really hitting or like, yeah, you're not getting the results that you want. So there's a lot to evaluate in this conversation. But first let's do a little life updates.

Okay.

So this was your first weekend, like, actually back from traveling and, like, living in a different state. And, like, how are you doing? Tell us.

This past weekend, I hung out with my boyfriend's family and his mom's like, so where did you come back from this time? Which just, like, reminded me how much I do travel.

Yes.

I loved it. Um, yes, I have had quite the, um, adventure this past weekend. Ventura's first quarter. I've loved every bit of it. It's grown me so much. There's been a lot of things that each one of those trips has sparked in me for the future. And finally stopping this weekend, I— my body was like, Astrid, please, like, let us rest. And I even got a little bit of a cold. And even though I've rested throughout this period, it has not been a burnout situation. I think that my brain has just been working all the time or I'm pushing myself into different environments and exploring. And so it's not full, full relaxation. So it was really good to be home to catch up with things. I'm still catching up and I'm home for about 4 weeks or so before we go to Paris together for your 30th birthday. 5 weeks. Yes.

I'm literally so excited. We booked our Airbnb, I don't know, when was that? A week ago or so. And It just feels so good to like have that big piece of the trip booked, and now I'm like in my Google Doc planning out all the days, and I'm just so excited. But yeah, I feel you on actually finally being home. That's this weekend for me. This weekend I'm finally home, and if you've been following along on social or have listened to the pod, you know that I'm training for a 10K. My husband and I are training for our first 10K, and it's this Sunday, so I'll definitely keep you updated on how that goes because I'm really excited about that like whole experience of running a race like that. And we're just we're doing a couple more training days this week, but that's like a big milestone of like we've been training for the last two months on this race, and it's cool that whenever you like commit to something, you set a goal, you set aside time to actually work on it. Like running takes time; it takes like. you know, 45 minutes to an hour out of your day to commit to that, it feels really good. So that's this weekend. I also like broke my nail and I had a nail horror story and like bent back my long nail, separated from the skin, had to wait for it to heal so that I could actually go get my new nails on. So after this, I'm going to go get my new nails. And then I also ordered a bookshelf for my office because I'm finally in a place financially, mentally, where I feel like I have capacity to actually decorate my office. My office is sad. It's a sad— it's like a desert. It doesn't have any creativity at all. And, I'm like, I need to practice what I freaking preach and actually make my environment better in here. So, I started by ordering this really cute arched bookshelf. Did you see it on my stories?

Yes. It's beautiful.

I was like, you know what? I'm doing it. I have wanted, and I knew that I wanted an arch, but the ones on like Urban Outfitters are like over $1,000.

Yeah.

I cannot.

Yeah.

I could, but I cannot.

But I'm not going to.

That makes no sense for me to spend that much money on a bookshelf, but I support you if you do. So yeah, those are my life updates.

What are you in between right now? Ooh, I am in between. I'm in a season where I really want to carve out a lot of family time because I do have some travel coming up, but it's not as much back to back as it has been. And I feel like I have been nonstop since August of last year. I had my nephews over on Friday and we had the best time. And I had not seen them since before Christmas because they got sick over Christmas. Then I was gone, then they were sick again, then that was gone. And so I think that as I start brainstorming different things that I want to do in the next year or so, I just want to be really intentional with this coming time that I have here to, yeah, just do some fun things. Like, I'm going to do a little painting night with my mom. She used to paint a lot. She's actually very artistic.

Ooh.

And so we're going to do those plaster canvas Canvas for my house. She knows how to do it. Oh my gosh.

Okay, she needs to do a tutorial.

I'll record it.

Record it and send it to me. Share it on the— share it on the pod's Instagram story because we want to know. Those are so beautiful.

Yes, yes, definitely. So I'm excited, and I think I'm just in a season where I appreciate my family even more because I feel like I miss them from being Go, go, go this past few months. So I'm trying to be intentional about my schedule and what I'm doing and making like literally just putting it on the schedule and being like, okay, you guys are coming over and sleeping over this day and we're gonna have more bonding time and just schedule it every month. Um, so yeah, so that's where I'm at. I think sometimes there's seasons of life and that's okay. And being knowledgeable of like the other seasons, then we're going to be a little bit more intentional with where our time is Yeah, it goes back to like the values too.

Like you value your family so much and it's, it's not that you can't stay connected with them on FaceTimes and calls and things like that, but you are a quality time person. That's one of your love languages. So like leaning into quality time with them while you're home, that's going to be great.

Yes, I'm excited. Um, what are you in between?

Um, trying to figure out what I want to choose this time. I have hit a wall with writing. And I, I went— if you are not familiar, I have wanted to be a writer for my whole life. And I've always wanted to publish a book. Went to a book writing event my friend Jake hosted at the beginning of March. It was so good. Came home the next day, outlined my whole book, like hit the ground running. And things with work have been very busy. My writing time is in the morning, which is also like not conflicting, but I also coach as well. That's still my like a business that I have. So I meet with coaching clients in the morning or after work, which is also like my writing time. So I think I'm just trying to figure out how to manage it all right now. And I've been really in my head of like, I thought that the book was going to be a little bit more statistics driven and like use cases and examples. And the more that I write, the more that I'm like actually writing my story. And I don't know, I'm like really in my head about that and I feel insecure about it. And I'm like, I feel insecure and the topic is about confidence and like how to be more confident. And then I feel super vulnerable because all the use cases of how I've learned to be confident, I'm drawing from like literal things that have happened to me in my life. And while I feel like that's the most Authentic, vulnerable. I'm getting red because I'm getting emotional. While I feel like that is the most authentic thing for me to do, there's also just so much inner tension around using my voice. And it feels easier to lean on statistics and tell you about this scientific study about confidence. And that could still be meaningful and impactful to someone. But at the end of the day, This is me writing it. You know, like I'm writing the story and I have to insert myself into it. And I thought somehow in my mind that I could get away with writing a book without being maybe as vulnerable as I need to be. So I'm in between that and the avoidance that comes with that because I am an avoidant person. And when that tension comes up and I feel triggered, I will isolate and I will avoid. So I am meeting myself in that place and trying to reconcile that right now.

Girl, A+ for emotional awareness though. The fact that you're able to recognize every single one of those emotions and steps in the process is huge. And I am even more so convinced that this couldn't have been a more perfect timing for you to write this book because you have that huge skillset of knowing to navigate your your emotions and your tendencies, and you're able to be like, okay, Alexis, I know that we're feeling X, Y, and Z. This is how we're going to move forward. But I admire you so much, dude. Writing your story is— I get a knot in my throat just thinking of that experience.

Yeah.

I admire you and your strengths so, so much because I can only imagine what that process has been like. And the fact that you're able to process through that and show up every day, because that can really stir up a lot of old emotions as well.

Yeah.

And just staying focused on, hey, this is uncomfortable and this is also a journey of embracing your story and it's a new layer. Even if you were never to publish this, I feel like this has been such a huge layer of your healing journey of putting almost like a hug around all your experiences and being like, we did that. We made it through all of that. We've processed. We've survived. And I'm just so proud of you for so many reasons.

Thank you. I appreciate that. The hug feeling for sure. I think whenever you— I know that whenever you start to talk about your story, whether that's your career or being a mother or being a business owner, like writing a book, like whatever it is, there is a softness to it. There is a rawness to it that, you know, it feels very— it's a part of who you are. And I think that when you are trying to navigate how to communicate that, like that's the piece that's like everything that you've been through, When you share your story, there's a layer of how do I want to say this? How do I want to communicate this? What filters need to be in place? How do I want to— what language should I use? How do I be the most respectful, the most graceful, the most empathetic, the most like— there is so much to when you start to share your story that it can feel also exhausting. Because it's like there's so many filters or governors put into place when you do share that it's like I'm trying to write this like no one's going to read it and then go back and edit it because it's like, yeah. So that's a whole other part of when you share is like there's all these little like, okay, I can't say that. I can't say that. And I can't say that.

I feel that. Whenever you were sharing that, I was thinking exhaustion right before you said it because it's not just the exhaustion of emotions is the exhaustion of having to think of everybody else and validate your own experience and story. And you're just like, why do I— like, it just, it like sort of triggered me and my, my own story, Shelley, sharing, um, portion of like, I have— I haven't fully shared my story yet because anytime that I've thought about it, I'm like, it triggers me to people not believing me, to all these different layers. And I'm just like, no. I'm going to run away. So I admire you. I am learning from you. And I am here to give you a big hug when you feel exhausted.

Thank you.

I feel that.

I really appreciate it. No, I mean, it's a beautiful process, just leaning into it right now and trying to actually make time for it when I want to avoid it altogether. So in my way of doing that, I have a call booked with my book Yeah. And I was supposed to write this weekend and we just had a family emergency come up. And so my 2 big writing days, I didn't get to do. And I'm like, I don't want to meet with my book coach and have made very little progress on my writing goals. So I rescheduled it to next week.

We're pivoting.

We've mapped out book time this week. It's going to happen.

And it's It's gonna be great.

So that's what I'm in between right now.

Thank you for sharing.

That was—

You're welcome. That was very insightful, and I love just, um, hearing how the different layers of your writing journey. Thanks.

I'm excited to like listen back to these episodes when the book is out and like just be like, oh, it's okay, honey, it's okay.

I want to go back and give her a hug. Favorite TikTok trend for sure. Yes. Yes. Okay.

So topic shift into today's theme around career development, zeroing in on, last week we did entrepreneurship, starting a business, narrowing down your business idea. And Astrid and I wanted to go deeper into this entrepreneurship topic around, okay, now you have a business. How do you double down? How do you audit kind of what's working and where to go next? So do you have a preference on where we kick it off? Because I was actually going to ask you a question to start this theme off.

Questions are my favorite. Please, please go ahead. Okay.

So let's set the stage. You have been a photographer for a year as a side hustler. And you are really consistently booking weddings, you are getting consistent income in, and you've gotten to a point where this is a business, this is a consistent stream of income. Now what do I want to do with it? Maybe we could start there.

Yeah, it's a great question. I love that because that's really where I was at for a really long period of time. And I think what helped me to integrate into the business is knowing that supply and demand. So if you can only supply, in this case, 10 weddings or 10 weekends a year, and the demand is you're getting 50 inquiries a year or 100 inquiries a year, then it's time to increase your prices for sure. And so that's where we keep playing with price in the situation that you're really wanting to stay with that as a side hustle. And really, and it applies even if you are doing it full-time, if you're maxed out on the amount of weekends that you want to use and do for your, for your business, then it's time to increase your prices. And so with that, I personally, every time that I increase my prices, I also increase the client experience in like different ways because I believe that you need to definitely deliver to that level. So if I increase my wedding packages by $500 or $1,000, then I am increasing that wedding experience perhaps with now I give them custom mugs. And so I'm paying a little bit more for that client experience that then by turn is giving me more marketing because those clients are posting about it and then I'm getting even more of that higher end. So I think it's, it's a, It's a stepping stone game of supply and demand. And as you're stepping up, your service needs to be stepping up with you and tweaking. And so that was my approach and that's what I would recommend. Yeah.

You make such a great point with the supply and demand because whether you are a full-time entrepreneur or you are a side hustler, you only have so many hours in the day to work with clients, to shoot weddings on the weekends. But if the demand has gone up and you only have a limited amount of supply or capacity or time, it makes sense why you would go towards raising prices. Was there ever a moment where you were 6 months or however long into the business process where you kind of decided whether you wanted to go all in on it? And I wonder if there are people that are listening that have a project, side hustle, business, and they're trying to figure out like, I've already started it. I've already validated the idea. People are paying me money. I'm helping them. I'm transforming some sort of aspect of their life. But do I want this? Is this what I want? Like kind of that, like helping me figure out if I want to move forward with it. Did you ever have that?

100%. I think there's a lot of layers to it. I think that Whenever it comes to being an entrepreneur, you have the pressure of you're bringing the money in. You have the client side of things of like, who is your client? So perhaps you're in the right field, you're exactly where you need to be, and you might just be working with the client that is not for you. And so maybe that's why you're not liking that. And I see that a lot as a photographer is photographers who perhaps haven't identified what is their jam or like what's the type of people that they want to work with or they're shooting massive of weddings when really their heart is in more intimate settings because they're maybe a little bit more introverted. And so they think that they hate wedding photography when in reality they hate— they don't, they don't like bigger weddings. It's not for them. While there's other photographers who like thrive off of the energy and all the things that come with a bigger wedding day, and then in a smaller setting they're like, okay, this is too slow, like I, I can't do this. So there's— I would say evaluate who clients are. If you are in a business that is very client-facing, then I think there's a side of finances. Is this something that you want to do long-term? And if so, I think evaluating how much money would you need to either match your salary or your income right now, or just to— what is it that would cover your expenses that you're not going to be strapped for, or like stressed about it, because that can put a toll on a business if you're stressed financially. And so then that can give you some direction of, okay, like I need to in the next year or 2 get my pricing at this point so that then I can make that side of things. But it's not always a financial side. And then I think the third, um, would just be like scalability and long-term. So if, is it something that you want to do long-term? And with that, have you fully explored the industry on what you can do long term? Because as a wedding photographer, for example, you would think, well, I maybe don't want to be 50 years old and shooting weddings. But if you really explore the industry, there's so much that you can do. You can be a mentor, you can be a coach, you can provide educational tools, you can start working with commercial clients. And so then you're shooting in a studio and you're not doing Long 8, 10-hour days. So really exploring your options in whatever field you're in of a long-term career, um, is definitely part of the process. Um, but yeah, I think like 6 months to a year in, you're kind of in that cusp and you are very exhausted. And so I think also just looking at what are the tasks that are eating up most of your time and is there any way that you can either minimize the time, make them more efficient, Or have someone step in and come and help you so that you can use your time very value— like more efficiently for those things that only you can do.

Right. And I think when you are at that stage in your business too, where, you know, you are the marketer, you are the one fulfilling the actual service or the product, you're the one doing the finance, you're keeping track of everything, you're shooting all the content, the product, like There's so many aspects to, you know, being a solopreneur specifically. And if you can look at, like Astrid mentioned, areas that you're spending too much time on, like whenever I was podcasting on the Deeper Life Show and as well as The Laptop Lifestyle back in the day, I had to outsource my podcast production because it was taking up too much of my time. And so I would, there were seasons where I didn't have the time to focus on the show, but I wanted to still be consistent with it. Mm-hmm. I just paid for someone else to manage that for me because it was worth it because the podcast at that time was helping me gain coaching clients. And, but that was something I didn't need to be spending hours managing the podcast. So it's like looking at the ways that you can potentially save time, but also keeping your business expenses low too. And that's another thing, like, well, I think it was maybe a year ago, I went and audited all of my bank accounts and looked at like, okay, what softwares do I really need? What softwares do I not really need? And like, whenever you are starting out, I think you can kind of, at least this is my experience, is you feel like I need the next resource. I need the next tool. I need the next course to teach me how to do this. And sometimes I would find myself leaning into a lot of knowledge and a lot of experts too much and not leaning onto my own intuition and things that my own expertise, I kept looking for advice on how to get it to the next level. And I was spending too much money and too much energy in those categories. Why can't I grow my business? Why can't I grow my business? Well, it was because I was spending too much money and energy on that and not enough money and energy in focusing in, you know, trying to grow my client base, trying to, you know, add consistent marketing levers to email funnels. Like there's so many other ways I could have been spending time and money. Um, so, So that's one of the traps that I think it's important to really notice. Like when you are in that scaling stage, who, where are you getting your advice? And is it potentially sometimes keeping you in a state of like pause until you get the right next step? Have you ever experienced that where you're like, I just need to like hire someone and sometimes that is the answer and sometimes it's actually freaking not the answer. So like, how have you decided when to actually outsource and hire and when to not?

That's such a great question. I track everything that I do. And because I track everything that I do, I'm able to see the chunks of things that have taken the most of my time. And so whenever we're trying to really value that time, then I can justify outsourcing or hiring someone because I'm like, okay, it's not just because so-and-so is doing it in there, business, because really like, okay, could I do this in 1 or 2 hours? Great. Or is this taking me like 16 hours, 2 workdays? And then, and then what I do personally is I will challenge myself with a new service or something that's going to cover my costs of outsourcing that. So if I'm going to take that off my plate, I need to make at least that in that amount of time with something else. And then I'm able to really—

Mm-hmm.

open up my bandwidth of what it is that I'm growing into. So I think that's important. And another aspect that I would say too is when you first start the business, you're doing everything. You're emailing your clients and scheduling the appointments and scheduling the thing and all of that stuff.

Wonderful.

Once you're growing your business even more and you're getting to a point where you're fully booked and all of that, take some time to create workflows and automations. Automations will not make it impersonal. They will just take away from your plate those things that you just have to do routinely, like, okay, this is a 2-month check-in, or this is the 3-week check-in, etc. And then you're able to jump into just the things that need to be customized, like, hey, I noticed that your engagement session is coming up, you sent me this Pinterest board, here's some links links to some outfits that I thought might be like really fun for you. Here's what I'm thinking, blah, blah, blah. And so your clients still get that. But for example, in my, um, industry and work of line is, um, the wedding timeline template. I just send it as an overview just so that they know what a wedding day looks like as soon as they book me, pretty much.

Mm-hmm.

And so in every industry, I think that you can sit down one day and create those work workflows in your, um, process. And even if it's not automated, at least you know what's happening. And every time you have a new client, you just duplicate those tasks and you're not wasting your energy thinking, oh, what's next? So that was something that I learned when I was in corporate, when I didn't outsource as much, or actually at all, is I learned that every time we stop and go with a new client or stop and go with a new project, we are using so much more of our energy. So how can we reduce the exertion of that energy in our businesses to preserve that, especially if it's a side hustle? So those are just some practical things that really helped me.

Wow. MBA class with Astrid. That was so helpful. Yeah. Just leaning into the processes that need to be in place and then really building that like muscle of discernment on where you're spending your money, where you're spending your time. And then when it comes to like, have there ever been any times where you have felt like you needed the community around you? You needed mentorship, you needed coaching. Like when you get to that place where you do want to double down and you are leveling up and you're kind of like this, all-in mentality. What has that been like for you? Because I remember specifically like desiring to be around other entrepreneurs and wanting to be able to have a place where I could find community in what I— not only just like what I was building as a coach, but just like, hey, you get the struggle. You know what it's like to be rejected. You know what it's like to have someone ghost you. You know what it's like to be worried about how much money you're going to make that month and if you're going to be able to make this payment on your loan. That is priceless. So what has that journey been like for you the deeper that you've gotten into your lifestyle as an entrepreneur?

Yeah, that's such a great question. I think that as entrepreneurs and even more so nowadays where you can really build a whole business by yourself and outsourcing a lot of things, We can become islands and it can be very, very lonely whenever you're overwhelmed. And so those moments for me have come from moments of burnout, moments of feeling stuck, moments of feeling like I'm not good enough as an artist to do that. And whenever I've opened up to other photographers about this, or even just other creatives, and there's that me too movement.

Yeah.

And we've had that where I'm a photographer and you're a coach and you're a creative. And when we've shared those moments of, yeah, I feel like I'm not good enough. And then when you'll share that, I'm like, what do you mean? You're incredible. You mean you feel like you're not good enough? Or you don't feel confident? You are the epitome of confidence. And then we'll share that back and forth with each other.

Yeah.

And you're like, really? That's how you feel? I feel like it's brought a level of appreciation for me of those low moments because I'm like, okay, I'm not alone. And these lower moments is what builds usually my next moment. It's my next little creativity cusp or my next idea or whatever it might be. It's what comes right before it. And so now I learned to nurture and love it. But I don't think I would have gotten that without the community aspect of this is a part of being a creative. And specifically if you're an entrepreneur in the creative world, it's a very emotional task and you feel the imposter syndrome. You feel yourself just being tugged and pulled in a million directions and you want to give your clients the world. And the more that you care, the more that your heart is like, pulled in a million directions. And honestly, going back to the practical side of pricing, I mentioned that to my clients. I'm like, I get so involved in the process of you and your story that I only have capacity emotionally for 15 to 20 weddings a year. So that's why I limit it. It's not for anything else. And I want to make sure I have the capacity to fully learn your story, what matters to you, what makes you unique as a couple. I don't want to show up burnt. out to just take a photo. And so I think also when we're growing our business, decide who do you want to be as a business owner and what are going to be your non-negotiables so that when that time comes and the money's on the table and people want to give you— they're like, I'll give you $8K for you to come. You're like, okay, no, like that will push me over. And then I will show up next day to my other wedding exhausted and I won't give it my all. And they're paying me to give it my all. So I think bringing the emotion side with the practical side is really where you can have a thriving business that doesn't suck the life out of you.

Yeah. I love that you mentioned that around who you want to be as an entrepreneur. I think that we can put a lot of emphasis on our morning routine, our evening routine, who we want to be as people. And a part of that, when you're an entrepreneur, the extension of you is who you are as an entrepreneur. And I was literally just talking to Matthew about this yesterday where I'm like, I feel like with my personal life, I, like through therapy and through healing and journaling and like just learning about myself, I can pivot so quickly in my personal life. I can ebb and flow. I can like assess a situation, discern it, figure out how I want to go about it, and then move on. I am still navigating how to do that as a business owner, which I know that that might not make sense because it's like, well, you are the business owner. Why can you do it in your personal life and not do it in business? I think it's just different, different hats, different brains that I'm accessing. And so I'm trying to weave more of who I am as a person into entrepreneur Alexis and really bridge the gap more intentionally and like, okay, what are my habits as a business owner? Because my habits in my personal life, I mean, I don't mean to brag, but they're freaking great. I have stopped drinking. I've stopped smoking. I've stopped overspending. I feel like I've really started to approach life In a way that makes me really proud of the way that I'm living it, and I don't always feel that way as an entrepreneur. I still feel avoidant tendencies. I still feel procrastination. I still feel imposter syndrome, and so I'm like trying to almost heal me as an entrepreneur. Have you like have you navigated that? You're raising your hand. You're like, maybe. What has that been like? Because that feels so strange to me. I just put that together this weekend and I'm like, this is the work that I need to do next.

Yes. Here's the thing. I have owned my business for 5 years and every single shoot, every single wedding, I get nervous. I feel like, what if I mess up? What if it's not going to be good enough? And it's really the moment just leading up to it. Because once it starts, I'm fully there. I'm fully present. I'm enjoying it. I'm having a blast. And the moment prior to is just this thing where it kicks in. And I think I've gotten to the point in my process where I've realized, what if that is exactly what pushes me every time to give it my all? What if that's exactly— I still reframe it. And every time I'm going into it, I tell myself, you are good enough. They've They have chosen you to be here. So trust that they want you here. Why would you tell yourself otherwise? And so I have to walk myself literally through a whole mantra thing that I learned through coaching. So going back to your question, yes, I 100% had to get coaching and help to know how to navigate the mental health side of being an entrepreneur and creative. And so now I have these rituals and habits that are leading up to these trigger moments of my personality. And while those feelings are still there, I'm able to embrace it with like— I kind of— I told my boyfriend this past weekend, I related to kind of like a musician that's about to go on stage.

Mm-hmm.

I'm sure they feel all those things like the adrenaline, the, oh, I hope it's good enough. I hope like, you know, I hit all the notes. You don't know. You're not guaranteed even if you're Taylor Swift and everything's sold out, right? And so I don't know that it ever goes away and I don't want to miss out on enjoying this moment if it never goes away? And so what if I'm able to embrace it as part of the creative experience of the adrenaline of like, oh my gosh, I'm about to create and I don't know what's going to happen, but I'm just going to trust it. And so that's really more where I'm at right now. But for a really long time, it was very hard and I felt so exhausted the next day after weddings. And I've identified that it wasn't just my body. Half of that component was how tough I was on myself mentally and emotionally because I thought I wasn't good enough. So I would do a flat lay and I'm like, is this good enough? And I would redo it and I would redo it. It was just like a lot of imposter syndrome would pop up in those scenarios. And so, yeah, so I feel like there's such an emotional experience to being an entrepreneur. And having that coaching mindset therapy work can be very impactful to turn those moments into positive ones.

Yeah. Yeah, that's super helpful. Like, just there's a level of acceptance that the imposter syndrome, the desire to avoid, procrastinate, like that's going to show up. It shows up in housework. It shows up in getting your oil changed. It's not different just because you have a business. I think it's because it's a business. it's a business problem.

Yeah.

And really it's just a part of like our tendencies in general. And whenever you can embrace that that is just a part of the process, it's a part of, you know, learning and like the desire to reframe that and be like, okay, yeah, I see that avoidance there. I know it's there. I know why we're doing it. It's a part of it. And I'm not going to not do it just because I'm feeling avoidant. Like I'm not going to rob myself of the experience. So That's a really lovely way to look at it. I'm going to try that on.

Well, and I'll expose myself a little bit here too, because I know that there are some photographers that listen to this. And when I go through those really hard sessions, or even if it was a great session, but then I leave feeling like, I hope it was good enough for them or what they wanted, the dread I feel. opening up and creating the sneak peeks. Because my biggest fear is opening it all up and being like, it's not good enough and I can't find something that I love. And in that experience, I used to procrastinate until 2, 3 weeks through— no, sorry, 2 to 3 days after the shoot. Because usually when I send the sneak peek, so I would wait and I would do that the day of. And it was all just mental and emotional because I was so scared that it wasn't going to be good enough. for them. And I wasn't going to be like, they were going to be disappointed. All these lies that just simmer and it still pops up. But now I recognize it and I'm like, okay, let's just look through it and see what we got and start editing it. And I'm like, okay, every single time it was always good, great enough images to deliver and I loved it. And then I would go through this cycle of like, oh, okay. And then, wow, Okay, we did a good job. Okay. And the next shoot would come and it was the same thing all over. And it was very exhausting, honestly, to create.

Yeah.

So if anyone else is a creator feels that out there, my biggest encouragement is like, identify those feelings that you have coming up whenever you are dealing with a client. Is it that you're not good enough? Is it that you're not going to be like unique enough? Whatever those are, And then you have to verbally push yourself and tell yourself the opposite and be like, they have chosen me. I'm a creator. All these different things as many times as you need to throughout the process. But that has really helped me.

I love that. Something that just popped up for me as you were saying that was closing the feedback loop. So whenever we get in those spirals where we're like, am I good enough? Do they like it? Like, are they happy? How can you invite your client into the process with you? So at the end of every single one of my coaching sessions, what were your biggest takeaways? What did you learn about yourself? And so we talk about biggest takeaways and their biggest thing that they learned about themselves in the session. They are reflecting on the hour that we spent together, and I get to hear in their own words how this hour helped them get closer to feeling more empowered, more confident. Now they know what they want to do on this decision. This is the action step they're going to take, like wrapping it up. Whereas if you leave things like that with a client open-ended, it can be difficult to know and get that feedback. So I'm not reliant on the feedback to feel good about myself as a coach. And by closing the feedback loop, I can, I can then pivot. Oh, we spent too much time on this. Next session, let's really dig into this. And so you are also leaving like next steps. So even if you own a coffee shop, okay, and you are curious on how your customers like your coffee, ask them. Like give, give them opportunities to give you input and give you feedback. Because I do think that whenever, as Ash had mentioned, like you can really isolate and turn yourself into an island and recognize that when you're working with clients or customers it's a very collaborative experience. And Astrid has done such an incredible job building a really great client experience for your clients. So I know you do a lot of collaborating with your couples, but even if you aren't a photographer or a coach and you own a business, how are there ways that as you're scaling and doubling down, how are you getting that feedback from your customers to one, let you know that you're headed in the right direction. And then also using that to inform you to pivot, to shift. The pricing's not right. The structure's not right. Like that is a part of the process that we didn't really talk about today, but I think is important when you are trying to scale. Getting that like scale formula where you are getting like the— you're closing the loop with the customer or the client is a really important step so that you feel like you aren't just out here in the wind, like, you know, like, what am I doing? Okay, is anybody out there?

Yes, yes. I love that so much. And I love that you brought that up of different ways that you can connect with your audience and, or like with, with your customers. And one thing that popped into my head is also using social media to get that feedback. So say you create designs or you create sweatshirts or something like that, like having people vote on it on what— then now you know this is what's going to probably sell the most. Or what do you guys prefer, this or that? And people will always slide into the DMs too and be like, oh, I would love to see— or I saw these like leather shorts, I would love to see like leather shorts, do you offer them? But if you don't open that conversation, people feel like they're overstepping. And so they're not going to just tell you what to do with your business. But if you open the conversation, you're like, hey, what's something that you would want? Or flavors? Or like, here's 3 that we're considering. Like, bring them along on that journey. And I think a lot of those questions or gaps will help you identify that. I recently shared something on my stories and I got so many comments on and they're like, I would totally hire someone to do that for my wedding day. And it just like sparked a lot of other ideas for me. And so, yeah, I think a lot of times people want to support you and love what you're doing. And if you need that feedback, use the tools at hand to get that, whether it's directly with your customers and those that are in your experience or overall with those people that follow you on social media as well.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, we didn't even, that's like a whole other episode is like social media for your business. I actually like went on a little rant. Have you seen my stories today?

No, not yet.

No, what was it? I went on a little rant around like, and this is like a much larger topic, but I just feel like online business and the way that people sell online gives me the ick. And I just feel like it can come off very inauthentic. And when I'm saying this, I'm not judging anyone's ability to hustle. Like I think that anytime you're putting yourself out there, it's really hard. I talked about that at the beginning of this episode. Like writing your story is hard. I do think that there are ways to connect with people online that's genuine though. I get so many cold DMs like, hey, are you a coach? Do you have any availability? And I'm like, yeah, I do. I actually have a spot open. It's like, okay, well, I'm actually a coach and I help coaches fill their client spots. So join my mastermind. And I'm like, get out of here.

Bye.

Get out. You don't follow me. We don't follow each other. You've never engaged with any of my content. I think that ruins it for other people who are interested in engaging with you or hiring you or whatever. So there's just like, I think there are really genuine ways to sell and talk about your business and talk about the value that you offer without it being gross.

Mm-hmm.

And maybe we should talk about that sometime on the pod of just like selling as a service and how you can Talk about what you do in a way that doesn't come off as like slimy.

Because I absolutely love that.

Like, it's like low-key giving like MLM energy. And I, for sure, I don't think there's anything wrong with MLMs, but I do think that there are ways that sometimes the marketing in them is just really not like— it's just not genuine at all.

Yeah, the way some people like communicate on it is, is rough. I think too, on the flip And connecting back to like this episode too, being able to communicate and know who it is that you want to target. So now say like they really want to work with you, then they'll scroll through your feed and see specific things. Then they can use that information in a positive way of what they can offer you and be like, hey, I noticed that you really advocate for women and blah, blah, blah. Like really being able to be specific is suddenly going to— I think it's a win-win because they're more excited about it. And you are more excited about it.

Yeah.

And so even with this episode, something that I did earlier on whenever my business was a side hustle is I identified who it is that I do want to work with. And I have calls with anyone that wants to book me prior to sending them a contract. And I really communicate my shooting style. I'll play music, I'll do prompts, I'll do questions. We'll do a lot more of a lifestyle type of thing. And literally what I'll say on calls is, and that's not for everyone. I totally understand that. And the last thing that I would want is for you to have someone on your day capturing your beautiful day in a way that doesn't feel right for you. So I want to be fully transparent about my approach to photography. Does this sound like what you're looking for? Because if not, I have some really great talented photographer friends. I'm more than happy to commute And usually they've looked at my work enough to know that that's the approach. They're excited, blah, blah, blah. But being able to be very specific with that will give you a better experience as an entrepreneur because you won't have dissatisfied clients. And we tend to grab that as a reflection of us, like, I'm not good enough. And maybe you are good enough, you're just working with the wrong person. But girl, I feel like we could turn this into a year's worth of conversation.

What not to do. Oh my gosh, I love this. I love this topic around career development. And maybe we should do a whole month, one month this year solely on like ways to grow your business or like your personal brand. Like you're a photographer, but you also have a personal brand about you too. So there's like so many different aspects to entrepreneurship. So we should maybe You know, think about putting that out there. But I'm excited about next week's episode. It's going to be a Q&A, and if you have any questions around career development, relationships, style, literally anything, we're ending every every like last Wednesday of every month will be a Q&A where we just answer y'all's questions. So drop them in the inbetween dot pod on Instagram. You can DM us your question, or you can DM Astrid. Or me on Instagram as well. Would love to answer your questions on the pod. Astrid, what's your Instagram handle?

My Instagram is @astridjohannaphoto and the pod is inbetween.pod. Yes.

And mine is @alexistechmiller. And thank you so much for being a part of the show. Like, thank you for— we're so grateful to do this together. Astrid and I have grown our friendship, but also just like Growing with you and putting out these different topics and seeing that they're resonating with you. I appreciate every DM that any one of you has ever sent me after I've cried on the podcast. I love you, and I'm so thankful for you. And I'm looking forward to seeing you next week.