How to Have Intentional Conversations with the People in Your Life

Welcome to The In Between Podcast. I'm Astrid.

And I'm Alexis. And we're 2 best friends on a journey to living a fun, intentional life.

We know it's easier to share on a season of life once it's behind you, but what about when you're in the middle of the growth, confusion, and decision-making?

This lifestyle podcast is for the everyday gal who loves to travel, talk about business, relationships, fashion, and everything in between.

Hello friends, and welcome back to another Welcome to another episode of The In Between Podcast. This is one of your hosts, Astrid, and the other half, Alexis.

And today on the podcast, this was actually— this topic came from a listener. And so this is your sign that if you have a topic that you want us to discuss, please submit. Um, but this topic is all around having intentional, deeper conversations with people in your life. And we've kind of sectioned out the episode around like how to have deeper or even just more intentional conversations with acquaintances or new friends. Like, how do you do that? How do you get to know someone in a way that doesn't feel shallow or superficial? Um, close friends, how do you go deeper with existing relationships? Like, okay, we've already got this friendship and this foundation, but I want to know more about you. Or maybe you used to be close, And you want to get closer to them again. And you're kind of trying to reestablish that depth and closeness in that relationship. And then the last category is work relationships and networking. And like in a professional career setting, how do we get to know our colleagues or mentors or just people in a networking setting in a way that feels authentic, in a way that like we can really build real relationships? and like potential opportunities can come out of them. So I'm really looking forward to this. This was fun for me to put together. And you listen to Astrid and I have deep conversations with each other every week. And so I thought this was a great suggestion of like, how do we help us figure out how to do this? So, um, this is something that we have, you know, not always been Like, we didn't always know how to do this, right? So just, I think this conversation, uh, is really fun and I hope that it helps you go deeper in your friendships and relationships.

Yeah, I am so excited for this topic. I feel like this is the true origin of the In Between podcast and of our friendship. Yeah, because that's without that first approach and diving deeper into conversation and being open and all these layers that come with starting a new friendship. Then we would never be right now hosting a podcast. And so it truly can be hard as an adult, especially in your late 20s or early 30s, to start new friendships. And then like, okay, well, I made the effort, I'm in the group, I'm going out to dinner with the girls, I'm nervous, and what do I talk about?

Yeah.

And I feel like not a lot of people share how nerve-wracking it is to show up in those social settings as an adult. And that is very normal, especially when it's not your people that you're used to.

Yeah.

So hopefully this will be more of a tool for your next social event, whatever that looks like, or even just catching up with, um, a friend or diving deeper like Alexis mentioned. So I am stoked for this topic, but before we dive into that, catch us What has been going on in your side of things?

Yes, just got back from Palm Springs, had a blast, and just really enjoyed like the desert, the vibes. We were on a couple's trip. Um, if you follow along on Instagram, you know that a couple months ago, I think it was like back in November, um, our good friends here in Houston, Justin and Millie, We did a PowerPoint night and each person pitched a vacation idea of like where we could take a couple's trip. And, um, one of the locations was Palm Springs, is actually Matthew's location. And we all voted and Palm Springs ended up winning. And that was us actually taking the, the, you know, the trip out of the group chat and like making it happen. And it was so much fun. Uh, truly felt very relaxing, very chill, lots of time by the pool, like just really deep conversations. Actually, like great segue even into today's topic. We brought the game We're Not Really Strangers, which I first found from you. And we went through every level. Like we started, there's 3 levels, um, of We're Not Really Strangers. And we started in level 1. And then, um, Justin, Millie's husband, was like, okay, I'm ready for level 2. Like, let's go to level 2. And so then we went to level 2 and the last night we were hanging out in level 3. And it was really fun to get to know each other in that way and just have a lot of fun. So yeah, I'm feeling rested and, uh, just feeling really grateful to have the ability to travel and, and do it with friends who also love that stuff too. So it was great. What about you?

Girl, that sounds so much fun. I love beginning to start how that happens.

It's—

I feel like it's different whenever you're able to have your hand in creating a plan, or it's like, okay, we all voted for this and we're all crafting it together. Like, it brings so much more excitement to the plans as well. So I love that you got to have that. Um, yeah, on my side of things, I also had a trip since we last recorded. So over Easter weekend, we went down to, um, Destin area, and I go there often for multiple reasons, for either work or just for fun. Absolutely adore that area. The Miami girl in me loves it because it's everything I love about Miami, but also everything I love about more my introverted self, which is just beautiful dining places, beautiful places to be at without all the chaos that Miami can bring.

Yeah.

And yeah, it was very interesting because it's— I mean, I've taken quite a few trips already this year, but it was one of the first ones of the year that actually felt restful.

Yeah.

And it's just interesting to notice like how my body feels after this trip compared to the other ones. Like I was at beautiful beaches, beautiful pools, beautiful countries, and this was the most relaxing. So it's truly, it was a great reminder that I need to intentionally schedule my vacations even though my work takes me to really fun places. So that was really fun. And yeah, I've just been Back this past week, catching up now, shooting a lot of content like Monday through Friday this whole week. I'm doing sessions and/or shooting like UGC for the local tourism board for Restaurant Week. So busy, busy, but really fun stuff. So good.

I'm glad. I'm glad that those like in-between LOL shoots in between weddings, you know, like that's another big part of Your role as a photographer is like not just shooting weddings, you shoot a lot of other content. So I'm sure it's like fun to be creative in that way. And that's awesome. I'm so, so happy for you. Um, also I have to tell the pod community that y'all would be so proud of me in the way that I'm managing my money. So— Tell us, tell us more. I like did my no spend in March and then we were in Palm Springs. We like were shopping. First, we landed in LAX. We went to Abbot Kinney, which is like all these cute little boutiques, tried stuff on, didn't buy anything. Like, was so specific to my list that I was looking for and tried things on and like just didn't love it. Didn't like check every box. I didn't buy anything. And even like shopping in Palm Springs, bought a few things, but like very specific to what I need. I'm replacing something. Like, I just stuck to the list and it just felt so good to one, like honor and steward my finances in a way that when I bought it, I felt proud. I didn't feel like I was emotionally buying or like, oh, I'm on a fun vacation. I don't really need it, but let's just get it anyways. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was very, very me. And so it just felt really good to be in an environment and shop with a girlfriend, one, but she was also like, she knows me at this point where she's like, Do you really like need them? Does it, you know, does it check every box? And like kind of help me.

No pressure.

Yeah, like help me through that. And so it was really fun, but I just had to tell you that I am growing. Okay. We are evolving financially.

We are so proud. And, you know, shout out to Millie. I think she needs to come along to our trips and regulate us because she's— I think you and I are a bad combo though. We will be direct. We'll be direct if like, if we don't, if we don't think something looks the best, but we'll, we, we can, um, negotiate a lot. We hype each other up.

We can rationalize. Yeah. Yeah.

We're like, you look so hot. You have to own that dress.

I, I feel like I'm going to budget for that kind of energy for Nice, you know, like we're going to be in the south of France. I just know that that's probably going to be a possibility. So we're just going to mentally know that it's going to happen instead of it being like a spontaneous. Oh my gosh. And then you don't realize how much you spend, if that makes sense. I'm just going to budget that energy that we carry together into the trip.

You know what we should do? We should have a day where we go shopping and we say we're only going to spend X amount, say €100 max. And we just have to get creative with it. We put a limit for that specific day and then that's it.

And then we narrate all of it.

I know you don't love that, but I think it would That would be good for us.

Let's, let's, uh, let's align on the limit. I feel like €100 is pretty low. I feel like you would buy one thing.

Yeah, true. Okay, the, the limit can be discussed, but do you like the idea?

I do like the idea. I like the idea. I think we should do it. I, I'm in. And maybe that, maybe that's what we do one day, then the other days we can do whatever we want.

Other days we'll go back and buy all the things we didn't get the days before.

We're the worst.

Anyway, deep relationships.

Yeah. What are you in between right now? Oh my gosh.

Well, taking a hard right, I'm going to go ahead and expose myself, but I feel like a lot of people deal with this, so that's what this space is for. So I am currently in between learning how to process each situation and each conflict that can come along in my relationship specifically, and leaning into what all needs to be communicated and maybe what doesn't. In what sense? I came to a point where I felt frustrated that I was an overcommunicator because by overcommunicating, That can be good. And the hindrance of that is that it can also make my partner feel like not the best because I'm constantly bringing things up. So in my mind, if it's like, oh, I have a clean agenda because if something bothers me, I just bring it up and then we move on. Which is true. And I feel like that's still important. But the level of heaviness that I brought to each of the things that I was bringing along is something that I am learning how to navigate and how to— to steward my words better, like the occasions. And also, does everything need to be communicated, or are some of those things just things that will just pass, things that maybe they'll learn on their own? And so I am a recovering over-communicator, communicating girly. And it's the first time in my life that I deal with something like that, of like communication affecting me in a negative way.

Wow.

Not negative, but like, yeah, just learning how to steward that better, how to be able to use it in a better communication sense. And part of communication is learning how does the other person want to receive the information? How do they receive it best? And at what time will they receive it the best?

Yes.

And so that's what I'm learning to reel back in and to pull it back together because for some reason I can do that better with friends because the time in between those conversations is a lot wider. And also I'm less emotional about it because I adore my friends and it's different in a romantic relationship. You see each other all the time.

Totally.

You love each other. You're building something together. There's just a lot more emotions there. And so Yeah, for anyone out there that has dealt with that, where you're stuck between, I want to communicate and I want us to have open and honest conversations, but then also, is this too much? I think it's an important thing to learn to navigate and to have a partner that is willing to receive it, but also asking ourselves, how are we bringing it to the table? And sometimes it's not the what, but the how. And that's what I'm learning right now.

Yeah, that's big. That's a, that's a good one. I think we could have a whole conversation just on that. But I'm proud of you for that awareness and being able to work through that together. I think as you go deeper into like the communication and conflict and just how you and your partner kind of like your rhythm, if you will. I totally relate to that. Like there are just times where Matthew will bring up certain topics that he wants to talk about or that are really important to him. And I like just don't have the— usually they're around like finances or tax strategy. And I'm like, I literally— my brain. But like, let's set a time. Let's go to coffee in the morning and let's discuss it then. And like sometimes having a time and a place where you go put those discussions, and it's not always going to be perfect, but like just knowing that That, that's a possibility and that you can do that. Um, I've seen another— there's a couple on TikTok that like every Sunday they sit on the couch together and they talk through like how they felt loved that week, how they felt misunderstood that week. And they kind of have these like questions that they go through together as a couple, but it's like a weekly ritual. Um, and I was like, oh, that's interesting. And we, we've tried that before.

Mm-hmm.

Just in seasons where we needed it. And that was helpful too. So it's just finding your rhythm and figuring out what works and it takes time. But yeah, I'm proud of you.

I love that tip. I think that might be helpful right now as I learn to navigate like what is important to bring right now and what is smaller. Because also once you put distance from a situation, like 2 days later, you're like, oh, it's fine. Like I'm good. It was not that big of a deal.

Right. So in the moment, we're like, Like, yeah, yeah, literally.

So that's a beautiful and awesome tip. I'm gonna, I'm gonna bring that one up. Yeah, but what are you currently in between?

Let's see here. I am currently in between figuring out, and I've mentioned this on the podcast before, but I had a conversation with an old friend this morning That just brought it back up and really, really like hit me in such a beautiful way. We were talking about dreams that we had let go of intentionally. And like, how do you know when you let go of a dream, it's because it truly doesn't fit you anymore? It doesn't fit your values. Maybe it doesn't fit the lifestyle you want. It's just something that you wanted years ago and it just doesn't actually fit. Or you're settling or being complacent in some way. And we were just talking through that and she's like, I have come to the realization that the dream has to add to my life. And I think when you're young, and I know I'm 30, almost 31 this month, which is crazy. Oh yeah, it's my birthday month. Happy early birthday. Thank you so much.

Taurus energy.

When you get a little older, you start to see like the dreams that could really add to your life and the dreams that's like, do you even want to be the kind of person that does that thing?

Mm-hmm.

You know, and, and like getting down into the nitty-gritty of who you would need to become in order to do that. And is that really what you want? And if you can see it reflected, or can you pivot Aspects of the dream into something else. And so we were talking about just things that we've pivoted, and I think I'm just in between different areas of my life that I am either taking the dream and saying, this isn't for me anymore, and that's okay. And then taking aspects of a dream or a goal that I've had for a long time and saying, maybe it doesn't fit in this container. But what if I took a portion of it and it actually fits better over here, and I get to live out this goal or this dream of mine in a different capacity? But because I have put it in this container and I thought forever it was going to look like this, I actually have missed out on the fact that this is the perfect fit over here. You know, and so just like being willing to be flexible with. your dreams and goals. And so that's something I'm in between slash relearning, giving myself a lot of permission to just find ways that that makes sense for me, um, in this season of life. So—

Wow, that's beautiful, babe. I love that you're in that season right before your birthday. Yeah, because I know how important it is for you to like, okay, how am I wrapping up the year and how am I starting the new year?

Big on reflection.

Yes, the reflection. It's so, so important. And to be able to be in that space where you're either coming to peace with, okay, I genuinely don't want these dreams, and/or this is now, as I jump into the new year, how I want these dreams reflected in my life. And it probably sparks even more excitement now because it looks different than maybe what you imagined.

Yeah.

You're like, all right, let's go for it. It didn't have to live in this box. I'm excited to hear more about those dreams. And I love that you're in that headspace. I think not a lot of people take the time to really figure out their dreams past early 20s. A lot of times we get stuck in the routine of life, in the goals, which goals are so important, but really taking a full step back of what are my dreams for my life and my vision. is really important. I feel like you do that often. I feel like you do that at least once a year, and that's beautiful. Um, but I love that you ran into this right before your birthday.

Yeah, that's a good point. I didn't put the connection between that and my birthday together, but yeah, I have felt very reflective this, like, the last, like, week or so, and I'm just gonna lean into that and see. Like, I remember around this time last year I also had a lot of like clarity on what I wanted and where I was going, and I think it really helped me to be where I am right now. And I always think it's important to stop and really reflect on on that.

So thank you.

With that, let's shift over into how to have intentional deep conversations with the people in your life, new and old. And I you know as Ashton and I were talking. Through the notes for this episode, we kind of wanted to start it from this place of like, there is a reason that we crave connection and we crave depth. And we, because we want to be seen and we want to be in community with people that give us space to talk and to dream and to process and to share and to receive that back.

Mm-hmm.

And I think that there, it can be very nerve-wracking to show the world who you are. And I think that like the easiest way I think we can test doing that is in conversations with people in our life. And a lot of times we think like, I'm going to show the world who I am. And we think it's going to be this like grandiose, we're going to launch the book, we're going to launch the podcast, we're going to like, whatever the thing is. Like that might be rooted actually in accomplishment. I think that we can show people who we are through connection and through like this friendship. I learned so much about who I am and I get to see you be who you are in this like magical friendship that we have. And I think that I get to test different parts of myself with you. I get to like share and I get to process and I get to experiment and you get to be a part of that process with me and me for you. And I think when we can look at relationships and conversation as a way to build bridges, to be our most authentic self, and to truly be active participants in other people's lives and receive what they have to give us.

Mm-hmm.

That's the whole freaking point in my— like, I just think like that's like why we're here, um, at like a very micro, micro level. And I, I think we can overcomplicate depth and connection. And I just, I think that it's like if we can boil it down to these interactions, it can be really, really beautiful and hopefully less overwhelming.

Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't have said it better. Like, being able to Take a step back and not put so much pressure on some of these conversations. Because sometimes what can happen is we maybe experience certain things, we dive deeper into our own relationship with self, and we have a rebirth. And then now we want to bring that level of depth into our relationships around.

Yeah.

And it can be hard to almost reintegrate where everything feels a little bit bland. And you're like, okay, but I love you. How do we dive deeper? And sometimes the depth is there. It just hasn't been explored in that A to B relationship that both of you might have. And so I think this is crucial because if there's one thing I'm the most grateful for is this happened to me. I was a bit more isolated in my early 20s, went through a devastating divorce. And through that, learned so much about myself. And then I was like, okay, now I want to find my people. And how do you go through something so traumatizing and then just talk about lip gloss the next moment? And that's very, very still important, but I was craving that depth as well.

Yeah.

It opened up a lens in my mind of, I'm not the only one that's gone through hard things. We've all gone through hard things. So how did that shape you? And how can we bring the curiosity of humanity into these conversations that we have, whether it's why someone chose the field that they're in, why someone chose their romantic partner, why they chose where they live? Like, bringing that level of what makes you you and all your choices have led you here. Tell me more. Like, genuine curiosity will always be felt by the other person. It will feels so loving and will bring these deeper conversations a little bit more authentically than a checklist will. But I just love that at the end of the day, we're created to have genuine community. We're created to live and interact with other people that I'm able to learn from you. You're able to learn from me. I'm evolving. I'm struggling. I'm reaching out to you. You helped me through that, vice versa. Like, what a beautiful thing to navigate. And I think a lot of times we miss out on that because the relationships stay superficial. So we, we can't go to, hey, I'm struggling, because we've never even had some conversations about struggling.

Yeah, that's a great point. Like, that is such a good point around like, you don't reach out for support Because a lot of times the relationships in your life haven't maybe gone to that depth before where like you're like, well, I got to tell— if I ask for support, then I got to tell them about this, this, this, and this. And you got to have all this context. And that's such a great point. And so it's like, how do we go a bit deeper? And I think too, an aspect of vulnerability is it's subjective. And so what's incredibly vulnerable to me might not be vulnerable to you. And so even something as sharing like, why did you move to Nashville? I could give you so many like layers of answers. And there's going to be a very, very vulnerable answer to that. And there's going to be a very superficial answer to that. the goal with these kinds of conversations, if we really do want to be in deeper connection with the people in our lives, the goal is maybe not— maybe you don't share the most vulnerable version, but you share a more honest version of why. And when someone asks you a question, you actually give them a bit more detail about who you are. And so—

Wow.

I think that's important. Another aspect of this is like, Having 2 active, willing participants in a conversation. And so, if I'm at a work setting and I'm wanting to learn more about the nuances of someone's job and their body language is shut off and they're not listening or they're not engaged, that's okay, actually. I'm not being rejected. They're just not in the headspace to have that conversation.

Yeah.

And now I'm going to go, like, you know, move on to someone else. Same with even like acquaintances or newer friends, and I'm trying to get to know them and they're not quite giving me that energy back. That's okay. Like they're telling you where they are in that moment in time. And I think we can take that as like, well, I tried to be vulnerable or I tried to build connection and, you know, it didn't work. That is just a normal part of this process.

Mm-hmm.

So I just want to normalize that, that Yeah. When we try these things and we try to go deeper and it's not received, we can sometimes take that and internalize it and say, I'm not good at this. I am never going to be close. We can just go to that place where it's like, I'm never going to have close friends. I took this girl out to coffee and she did not want to answer any, or she only wanted to talk about this and I really wanted to get to know her better. That's just going to happen. And so let's just normalize that. It's okay. It doesn't mean that you're bad at it. It just means that there's lots of other people in the world to have conversations with and build connections with. And maybe that person just isn't it, or that was just not their day. And that's okay.

Absolutely. Absolutely. I love that you brought that on because there's also this aspect of deeper conversations where it's going to be awkward if you haven't done it before. It's going to be awkward how you say things the first time. It's going to be awkward the first time that you try and you're like, okay, well, um, hey mom, so how did you feel whenever you were a teenager? Like, or whenever your first— the, the one that leads in that relationship is— it's hard and it's uncomfortable. And let's like sit in that and don't let your first few interactions dictate where things can go. And with that, I will also say Be mindful of the context. Like, are you trying to dive deeper into a conversation at a party, at a social event, or are you trying to dive deeper into conversation in coffee? Like, coffee is a little bit more one-on-one scenario, right? And so what is— yeah, so sometimes, like, it's not that the person doesn't want to, it's maybe just not the setting. And that also happens to me. Like, if I'm at a party, I want to have fun. And sure, I can dive deeper into conversation, but it won't be my deepest conversations because my headspace is just free-flowing and in la-la land compared to a more intimate setting where we might have dinner or a group where everyone goes out for coffee or dinner. That's going to shift the environment of where we're able to share as well as I think vulnerability and deeper conversations is trust that needs to be earned. So while we can say, for in your example of like the Nashville one, you're able to go a little bit deeper because that's who you are. And you're like, no matter who it is I'm meeting, this is why I moved here. There's other layers to it that is reserved for your closer circle and your like best friends. And you just dive deeper and deeper into that. So maybe think ahead of time, like, What aspects of your life, um, are you wanting to share in those moments when deep conversation comes up? And practice like, okay, I want to share this type of highlight and this level of vulnerability. How do I bring it up from like an overview perspective instead of like all the nitty-gritty?

Girl, I used to be— I don't, I don't feel this way now, and maybe other people might disagree, and that's totally okay, but it's only about It's only like my perspective on this specific thing. I used to feel like I overshared, like in my early 20s into mid-20s, I would be like with friends, like trying to, like, I was craving that depth so much that I would leave a situation and I wouldn't feel good because I would feel like, oh, I think I, I would almost have a vulnerability hangover of like, I think I shared too much in that particular thing. And that's okay.

Yeah.

But I want to protect that boundary. And I want to honor the fact that like that actually was something that maybe I didn't need to share at that moment in time. And I did. And I think sometimes that's how we learn the levels of vulnerability and the layers of it that we want to share. You know, what is just mine? What is something I want to share with close friends? And what is something that like, you know, more acquaintances and things like that, the outer circle? May know or I want to share with them. And I think that for me took practice and some uncomfortable situations. And that's okay. Like, you know, I'm just being vulnerable and sharing with you that like I used to overshare and I wanted to be seen so badly. Um, and you know, I don't do that anymore, but that's okay if it, if it takes you a little bit of time to figure that out.

Yeah, thank you for sharing. I think we all navigate that. We overshare, we undershare, we're trying, and it's like the awkward time or like the awkward moment, and it's just like this weird— it's like our teenage phase in communication.

Yes, that is crazy. We're just adolescents, okay?

These are your pimples, okay?

Awkward adolescence, I love it. Well, anything else to share before we kind of get into some of these layers of closeness in terms of conversation?

I think so.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think we can dive in. Okay. Do you want to start with acquaintances or new friends? Yeah. Yeah.

So acquaintances and new friends. I feel like in this one, it's a big one that I often have to remind myself, let's not overthink it. It's just curiosity.

Yep.

So if we can be the ones to ask questions about their lives, and then whatever they respond, we ask another question that's genuine. So, for example, oh, where are you from? I'm from Dallas.

Oh, okay.

Were you born there? Did you grow up there? Oh, no, I moved from New York. Oh, that's amazing. I've been to New York. I love this part of it. Like, what part did you live in? So being able to, I think, first kind of set a stage of trust and having fun and being curious about the other person will then lead to the more deeper conversations of, oh, I moved because of a job and it was actually really hard to move from New York to Dallas because I left my family and friends behind. Bam, you got something that you can connect with and be like, oh yeah, I've moved away from my family and friends as well when I moved to X place. Or, oh, that must have been so hard. Like, how did you make new friends in Dallas? Like, There's so many different questions that you can ask someone once they open a tiny little window that is not, tell me about your biggest trauma, but it can be deeper conversations, which I think sometimes people can mistake deeper conversations into, tell me your most intimate, vulnerable things. And that can be a jump scare when you just met someone and they're trying to have that deeper conversation and you just talked about a topic I'm not comfortable sharing with someone I don't know. So curiosity and follow-up questions that can lead to those deeper conversations, but mostly just focus on having fun with it in this layer. I don't think it needs to be all that serious. And I think then if things go well and you hit it off, that can lead to then a friendship.

Yeah, I agree. I love the advice on the free-flowing nature of a conversation and like Asking follow-up questions, looking for points of connection that you can then share aspects of yourself. Something I will say that I think can shut down conversation is like when you're in that free flow state and someone shares something like in your example, yeah, I actually moved for a job and it was really hard. Something that can happen is then like you end up making the whole conversation about you. And how it was hard for you. And like, then, then it's like you're monologuing about your own experience. And so I think that's like being mindful of, yes, share. And it's like that back and forth, you know, chemistry that you're building with someone. And in order for that to continue, and in order for like the coffee to not be past, you know, 10 minutes, it's like letting them ask questions.

Yeah.

And you, you're asking questions, and there's just this like really natural, organic back and forth. It's tough when either they share no detail or you find a point of connection, then you share so much, and then they're like, I don't even know where to go from here. I think it's like just kind of nervousness can definitely be a part of it. But I think just being mindful of that or Once you're done sharing, you ask another question to like get them reengaged with the conversation. But I think those are little things that can sometimes shut down or like shift conversation. Yeah. Yeah.

I love those. I think like the acquaintances group and the networking group is perhaps kind of the hardest because you're starting with no trust. They don't know who you are. We get a lot of, we get fearful of who are they going to think that I am? We don't want to sound like something that we're not. your friends, your family, your people, they know you already and you're just diving deeper. And so I think that there's just a lot of pressure we can put on ourselves in those scenarios.

Yeah.

And so something that can help, and that I've done before too, is if I know I'm going to be around a group of people that are acquaintances I don't hang out with often, but I can think of, okay, I'm curious about so-and-so's travel, I'm curious about so-and-so's job, or they just moved back home, like, kind of before you go into the social setting, or into the coffee shop, like pre-prep some questions of interest. So that if the nerves hit, you can just always default back to those in your mind of like, oh yeah, I was really curious to learn more about X, Y, and Z thing about their lives.

Yeah, that's a great, that's a great point. Like, if you know you're going to talk to them, Maybe you follow each other on social media or something like, I saw you went on this trip. Um, I love that. And a few other topics specifically in the like new friends acquaintances that I jotted down that I feel like are neutral, but that can open up deeper conversation is like school. Where'd you go to school? Did you go to school? What did you study? How is that related to what you do now? Like job career stuff. I think that can really open up. so many different like decisions that they made and why they did it and they switched their major and like what, like you can really get into some of those nuances that build that layer of trust because they're sharing more of themselves with you and vice versa. I think another really fun topic is like hobbies and things they enjoy.

Yeah.

Um, and just like what, you know, what hobbies are you trying? Uh, one of my favorite questions to ask especially in like newer settings is, what have you read, watched, or listened to lately that you really enjoyed? And like, these are books I'm reading, these are podcasts I listen to. And like, you're sharing recommendations and you're kind of getting to geek out on— like, I have connected with so many friends on books lately and it just like, it's an instant connection.

Yeah.

And then we can just start riffing on like, oh, you read this book? And, and just finding those points of connection. And it's Maybe not deep yet, but you're again, you're like building the foundations of something where you're like, oh yeah, okay, why'd you like that book? And then you can get to some of the like deeper topics and why that person resonated or didn't resonate. And so there's just like so many, I guess, offshooting points you can go to. And then relationship stuff as well. Like if you know that they're dating someone or you know that they're married, like Asking them about their partner and how they met. And those are like relatively pretty neutral questions and it can kind of gauge like where they are, are they single? And just getting to know them a little bit in that. I don't, I don't recommend going super deep into that area unless they're open to it and they are like actively sharing. But I do think that it's helpful to like get an understanding of, you know, who they are. Um, as well as like. How have you met friends in the city? Like getting to know even like, tell me about your closest friends here in Houston. How did you meet them? Like again, neutral questions, but it can tell you so much about where they hang out, what they do, and how they spend their time.

I love those. Those are perfect. I think those are perfect examples of like those fun questions too, of having genuine curiosity. What are some things that you love that you can create your own questions around? Maybe even asking them, have you been to any concerts lately? Or is there anyone that you would love to like go to a concert this lately if you're into more of the music scene? But I think those are incredible tips to lead with. Um, but now shifting over to our close friends, is that the next one we want to dive into?

Yeah. Do we want to do—

I am so excited for this one because—

I know, me too. Do you want to do work relationships? Next, because you, you had mentioned that they're actually kind of similar to acquaintances, and I wonder if we should go like outer to inner and like end on deep friendships. What do you think?

I love that. I love that. Let's go into the networking part of things. So when it comes to networking from your perspective, because you work in a company that is all virtual, And you all meet twice a year at the virtual summits and you are in a sense meeting people you don't normally get to work with and introducing yourselves and doing all that stuff twice a year. So not super often, but often enough. So what are some tips from your side of things and your experience and how you connect with them?

Yeah. Yeah. So I've always worked in remote settings. Um, and I have been able to go to conferences and like lots of in-person networking as well. And then the company I work at now, as Astrid mentioned, has, um, offsites that we do twice a year. So we do get to meet in person, but I think some things that I really love learning about colleagues and just like career networking is why they enjoy what they do. And then you can really get into the nuances of it. And again, Astrid mentioned like the curiosity. Okay. There's like, there's so many smart people that I get to work with and like engineering and like just so many different things that I don't know. And I think that sometimes in career conversations, ego can pop up and it can say like, I just, I want to ask questions, but I also want people to think I'm smart and I want to like be perceived as intelligent and yada, yada, yada. Like the ego can come to And it's like, you know, it almost can sometimes keep us from connection in career settings. And so I think that it's helpful to go a bit deeper into like, how long have you been doing this? And what drew you to this work? And like, how'd you find, how'd you find the job at Circle? Like, did you know someone? And those are kind of topical questions, but something that I really love is like, what do you find most challenging about your work and why? What's something that you have—

Mm-hmm.

Taught yourself on the job that has helped you do XYZ. What trends are or predict? This is my one of my favorite questions too. What trends or predictions are you finding in the space that you think like based on what you've seen there's going to be a big shift towards this? Or like is there anything that you're betting on right now? Those kinds of things get people talking, and then vice versa. But it's really rooted in them. Rooted in like you understanding them and their work better, but in a way that feels like fun and not like you're drilling them too.

Yeah.

Um, yeah, you're not interviewing them. Um, and I think too, like being fully yourself and not letting the ego get in the way. Um, like being at conferences and just being myself led to my first job in tech. Like I had no idea who I was talking to. I had no idea what that would lead to, but like ended up hanging out with Nathan, the CEO and founder of ConvertKit, and their head of growth, Darryl. And we hit it off and we were just, we were just chit-chatting. Like we were just like, okay, yeah, you're in email marketing and I use this. And we, you know, we were like talking about email funnels and we were just geeking. And it wasn't about me being smart or me wanting to impress them. It was me like just being my full self, asking questions. They were asking questions and there was just this good like reciprocity. And then 2 months later I had a new job. And so I think like there's that aspect too in these networking career conversations where like being willing to ask questions, being willing to say, oh yeah, I've actually never heard of that. Tell me more. Or I don't know what that means. I don't know what that acronym is. Can you share? Like, oh, I had no idea. And just being okay with that, um, can really help. One, people love to share what they know. And so them teaching you something, they're excited about that. So I think like just not letting that get in the way of, of going a bit deeper in your career slash networking scenarios.

I love that. I think that can be one of the biggest challenges when it comes to networking and one of the hardest when it comes into more intentional conversation is ego is there, everyone's down to business. It's almost like we shut down all of our emotions. And how can I talk to so-and-so because so-and-so can help me get to where I want to go.

Yep.

And it's all about the connections and your network is your net worth and all these different things. And I think that's really where, when we're able to set those things aside, and we can just walk in with genuine human curiosity about what they do, why do they do what they do, what are they most excited for, what are they like, what did they recently work on that they absolutely loved and they're so proud of, a project that they did, then that sets you apart. And just having that heart of not just for a job opportunity or something like that, but Right. Also, just as a human, like, did you make them feel important or were you just, you know, talking through your accomplishments? Like, where people can walk away from a conversation with you and be like, wow, it was so great to talk to her because she listened to me. She was genuinely curious. And that leads to opportunities. And so I think that's like very much the crossover. You mentioned an example where you were just, you didn't know who they were. You were just chatting for fun and then you got a job from that. And similar to me, like my acquaintances have become my clients a lot of times. Like I'll meet them at a party, I'll meet them in different ways. They'll ask me what I do or like, tell me more about your travels and blah, blah, blah. And we're just chatting for fun and social situations. Next thing I know, they're reaching out to be able to work together for photography. And so at the end of the day, people want to be around people that they like. That they feel comfortable with in whatever work scenario that we're in. And so some of the questions that I had in mind for networking is, what are they working on that they're really excited for? That's my favorite one to go for, um, especially if you're not at a work-specific event. So say it's more, I don't know, like a, a community event.

Mm-hmm.

Where there could be a million kind of people or kinds of people.

Like a happy hour party.

Yeah, like it's a happy hour. There's lots of different types of people there. Instead of going straight to, what do you do? It's like, oh, are you working on something that you're really excited for? Or what are you currently working on that you're proud of? And they can be like, oh, right now my kids are at home and we're really— we're teaching them how to the alphabet. I don't know. That still matters as much as somebody else's career, you know? So being able to bring that, and that can open conversation and curiosity. Um, how did they end up in the work that they're in? Um, what's the favorite part of what they do? Um, and then just more of their background. Like, where are you from? Are you from here? How many times have you moved around? Do you have to travel a lot for your job? Like, What's your favorite place that you've had to travel for work? Like being able to just bring some of that curiosity in. And then the last thing that I'll say on the networking side of things, that was something that was helpful for me. And actually, your dad taught me because for those of you that don't know, I used to work at a company, EJ Water, where Alexis's dad is currently the CEO. So something that he taught me is he writes down and used to write down all these notes on all the people that he meets.

Yeah.

And he is a master networker. People adore him because he's just amazing at what he does. And he's genuinely curious and he'll give you the time of day. And I can be a very forgetful person. So if you're stepping into a space where you genuinely love people, you don't mean to forget who they are. When you leave that space, write some notes down of, okay, so-and-so is the owner of this. She has 3 kids. Uh, she loves to surf and is going to Paris this year. Then if this is a conference that you go to every year, next year when you run into them, pull up those notes and you're like, hey, how was Paris? Have you surfed lately? Like the fact that you can remember small facts about people that they mentioned in passing. will mean so much to them. And it just takes a small bit of effort from your part to just take some notes, um, if you're forgetful like me, or just mental notes of, okay, this is something that they care about.

Yeah, I love that. And you can do that on the Notes app. My dad uses Evernote. Um, I love it. He also has an Evernote for every city he's been to and all the restaurants he's eaten at. And then he shares notes on like, it's so wholesome. I love it. Um, but yeah, I think just like you mentioned, the memory, the bringing things up, the, like, sometimes I'll even say like, oh, I saw that you wrote this on LinkedIn. Or like just looking, especially virtual calls. Like I'm on Zoom calls all day long, meeting with different people, like checking out their LinkedIn and saying like, oh yeah, I saw that you went to school in Chicago. Like I grew up downstate Illinois, just finding those little things. And those impress people. Not that it's about that, but like, it's like, wow, you took the time to do 60 seconds of research that you can actually have like a connection on the call first thing. It does go a long way in those situations. And people are like, oh wow, they're really personable. Like they start to think of you for opportunities. They start to reach out. They start to say, oh wow, like you're top of mind when they think of XYZ in your field. Those things really do make a difference. So shall we move on to close friends?

Let's do it. My favorite.

Me too. I live in this, I live in this headspace.

Oh, close friends.

So I think this is an aspect of, I think this kind of is like 2 categories, like your active close friends, people that are like, they are up to date. You're, they're not just catch-up friends. Like they know what's going on. For the most part. Because unfortunately we don't get to live the day-to-day anymore, like we used to with our friends. Makes me sad. But anyways, and then there's also friends that we used to be close with that there's so much history and beauty and context and connection that used to be there. And that when you see each other, A lot of that is rooted in the past, but not necessarily, you don't feel like you're actively in each other's lives. So I think there's like, does that make sense? It's like your active close friends and then passive is not the right word, but like inactive or like they're, they're there. You're always going to think of them as a close friend, but they aren't necessarily like actively present and in your life. How would you—

Yeah.

How would you categorize them or describe them?

Yeah, I feel like it's the friends that know all the major things about your life. And then there's the friends who know all the minor insignificant things about your life and the major ones where you're just like, update.

I don't know.

I just got this thing in the mail. Or I now am hyperfixated on public sausages with eggs. I feel like those are the differences where you both are equally important, but just some friends based off of seasons of life too. Maybe you don't used to catch them up on those little things, but maybe they're really busy right now. And so you kind of draw back for a season, and then in a different season, they know all the little details about you based on proximity, based on life seasons. So I, I, that's how I would describe it. Like the major life events and the friends that both know the major life events and the small life events.

That's a great way to put it.

That is the new In Between Podcast definition. There you go.

You heard it here first. That's much better than saying passive and active. Can you tell I'm in marketing?

They are passively engaging with our brand.

They're actively engaging. Okay. So close friends. Um, I think a great place to start here is, you know, so much about them at this point. And so I think that going a bit deeper into what's going on in their lives is important to stay up to date, but also like giving them space.

Mm-hmm.

And I think that's a big thing with close friends that I have leaned into in my late 20s and now into my early 30s is like, I want to give my friends a lot of space to take up as much as they need, because I don't actually have a ton of like the friends that are in the majors and minors, as Ashlyn said, because that circle is relatively small. I want to give my friends as much space and runway and room that they need. And I want to know all the little nitty-gritty details. And so I think like when you're trying to build that though, it, it does take that like, you know, you're giving me something, I'm giving you something. Not that it has to be even, but it's like if I give you so much space and room and you give me nothing, or like, oh, was she— I don't think she asked me how I was. Like that's when we can really start to feel disconnected.

Mm-hmm.

And so I think that's an important part of going deeper in these conversations with closer friends is like, you know, sometimes there's going to be times where I'm going to need more of Astrid and I'm going to be like, hey, I'm going through this. I need to like talk to you. And that's normal and vice versa. But I think when you step back and you look at the relationship on a scale and say like, oh yeah, I actually like don't know the last time I've talked to her about how I'm doing with my mental health or how my marriage is, or like, because we're always talking about X. I think that's where we can start to feel a bit of a breakdown. And so I just want to like mention that, that sometimes it's hard to go deeper if you don't, if you feel like you aren't getting what you need from the friendship. So that's a whole other thing. But I think it's important to like tell your friends I need to take up some more space and I want to talk to you about this. Like, can you listen? Do you have capacity? I want to talk to you about this hard thing I'm going through. Like, do you have 30 minutes for me? And just like stating what we need a bit more in our close friendships if we feel like, you know, we aren't getting it. And that's okay. Like, it's normal. Um, our friends can't give us things we don't ask for.

Yeah, I love this so much because Throughout our whole conversation today, we've talked about how can we be curious about the other person and always asking them questions. And now as we dive into close friends, we of course will make that a part of the element, but a new one that integrates is asking for, I need to tell you about my life.

Yeah.

Like, hey, I want to catch you up on My job situation, can we talk? Or like, I'm struggling, can you jump on the phone? Or I miss you, I feel like I haven't talked to you, when can we chat? Like, being able to ask for those things is what's important in this layer. And I agree, I think that is essential to lay down before diving into those deeper conversations, whether you're the one bringing it into the table or whether you're the one asking them so they can share about their lives as well.

Yeah, agreed. So I think a couple of things I like to talk through with close friends is like how their relationships are. So like catch me up, like how are, how are you and your, your partner? Like what's going on? And same for me. Like, this is what Matthew and I are learning. Here's how, you know, we got in a random tiff about this and like just letting your friends into that, I think is an important kind of like it's, it's more vulnerable. I'm not sharing. things about my marriage with everyone. And same for you, you're not sharing things about you and your partner with everyone. That's helpful. Also, I think you and I do this really well. How's your family? What's going on with your mom? How are your siblings? How are your niece and nephew? I want to know not just about you, but update me on the fam.

Yeah.

Because there's so much that goes on in each other's families that I do care about what's going on with you and your brother, or you and your sister. Like, I want to know those details because that also affects you. And I think that's sometimes like another place we're kicking things off, like going a bit deeper, is like, so talk to me about your family. Like, what's, what's up? And then another one is like, how are you really doing? Like, how are you really? Catch me up. Like, you don't even have to say One specific thing, like just unload. Like, I think that's a— being able to tell someone like, just give me whatever you got. Like, how are you really doing? Yeah.

It's huge.

Like, for someone to ask you that and to actually have the space for you to answer is like different than saying like, hey girl, like, what's up? How you doing? It's a completely different tone. And I think when we can open up that space in our relationships, it really allows for a lot of closeness and depth to be built.

I don't think I've ever told you this, but you did that for me at a very crucial time in my life. And I still remember this where I think it was maybe October, November of 2020. So I had been legally divorced for 4 months or so, and we were at your lake house, and I think it was just you, me, and another girlfriend, and one of my best friends. So you knew that you could bring this up at that moment in time. And we were just kind of like eating around the bar and things like that. And you stopped me and you're like, hey, it's been like 4 months since your Divorce was legal, and I haven't heard you talk about it at all. Like, how are you really? And I was shocked because so many people tiptoed around that, and then they just saw me that I was fine. And I get it; it's hard. And you're like, I don't know. Like, does she want me to talk about it?

Does she not?

Like, it's a hard situation. Totally understand. But to have someone just ask you that and be able to. share those feelings was such a gift. And thank you for doing that for me. And that was at the start of our friendship. And I feel like that set a parameter around our friendship that was so healthy of, okay, we go there with each other. And I think that's an important part of the deeper intentional conversations with close friends is like, as deep as I go with you, I don't go with other people. And I think sometimes it's okay because you want to go deep with me. And so you bring things to the table where I'm like, well, now I can meet you there too. And here's what I want to share. And then I want to share even more. But then there's other friendships that are very close and they know all the things about me. And also when sometimes those invitations have come, perhaps that hasn't fully been taken, it's like, Okay, they're not there yet. And I think an important thing to note is if people haven't met themselves yet, there's not much they can share yet. So not taking it personally, it's just where they're at in life, and that's okay. And finding your people where you're able to find those levels and that gauge of deep conversations—it doesn't mean you can't have them, but there's levels to them. There's those friends that you're like. I'm sharing the nitty-gritty with you. It's ugly. It's not pretty. I had a mental breakdown. Here's what I felt. Here's, here's word vomit. Yeah. And then there's other friends where it's like, hey, I had a really tough mental breakdown last week. Here's what I learned. Here's what I navigated. We're in a better spot now.

It's like you're getting a different gloss— like, not glossy because you're still being vulnerable, but you're getting like a, a more buttoned-up answer, if you will. Um, but no, I, I'm— first off, like, thank you for sharing that. I, I remember that night as well, and I think that that was the night I also shared with you and her that I was depressed.

Mm-hmm.

I remember sitting there at the table and I was like, I don't actually— don't think I'm okay. And I think that because, like, I had asked you that— oftentimes we ask the questions that we want to be asked to us. And like, I hearing you say that, like I asked you that and you shared and you were so honest. And I, I think in a way later that night it gave me the vulnerability to be honest about how I was really doing and like letting you both into that. And so now that we're almost 4 years later, like we both remember that night in different ways. And it's really beautiful to like get to hear how that set the tone for, you're like, okay, we can, we can be honest in that way with each other.

Yeah.

And I think that's something with close friendships is when they're walking through highs, lows, middle ground, it doesn't matter. Like, what can I do to support you right now? What, what, what do you need from me? How can I be there for you? Sometimes people will have the answer, sometimes they won't. And so if you really, if you know them on that level, like what are kind things you can do for them where they don't have to ask? And then other ways where they're like, my friend Kate is really good at this. Like she's really good at holding me accountable. She's like, so what do you need? Yep. Okay. I'm going to text you. And so, and I'm like, oh, you know, but like that's, she always comes around at the end of a conversation and she's like, what do you need? for me to like support you in this. And like, she will then follow up with it. And I think like that closeness of knowing that someone's not going to leave you in the messy middle on your own. Like, that's a part of, I think, close, deep community is knowing that you're going to be there and that I'm going to be there for you. And like, if I got the call, I'm on the next flight. And I think that those are the kinds of friendships that While there not be that many of them, like, you don't need a ton of close, deep friendships. I think it's just like getting to a point where you can be your full self and there's a level of acceptance.

Mm-hmm.

Like, nothing that you could say would make me love you like any less or would make me not accept you. Because that's like the ecosystem that we've built in the friendship. And I think that, yes, it takes time. I don't think you can just get there with someone in a month. But like, I— we have not known each other for that long. Like, we've only really been friends, friends, friends for 4 years.

Yeah.

And like, that's crazy. So I think there's a lot to learn from allowing yourself to go there with friends. and ask them what they're learning about themselves, share what you're learning about yourself, and just being honestly the most vulnerable.

Wow.

But how do you do that and know how to trust that that person is going to be protective of you, is going to respect your vulnerability, is going to keep— secrets is a heavy word, but they're going to keep what you share between you? Like, how do you know that someone's gonna hold that, like, respective space for you in a friendship?

I love that question. I think it's a 2-part answer for me, where the first part would be, if you're in my close friend circle where I'm sharing and diving deeper into those topics, then there's already been other lighter things that I've trusted you with, and I've in a sense, tested the waters. Like, did you go and tell anyone? Did you manage that well? Or did you just take feedback well? Because we don't all manage things excellent, you know, in our friendships. But like, did you take feedback? Like, all that good stuff. And then your close friends, where what you're saying is nothing can damage this, like, unless something where you absolutely break my trust and it's something devastating.

Catastrophic.

Catastrophic. Yeah. Like, there's nothing. This is shielded and protected and loved.

Yeah.

And so once you're in that inner circle, I feel like whether it's they've been there because they're your childhood best friend and they know you so well, or it's more of a recent friendship, then sometimes it can still be hard to navigate those deeper conversations. So I think the second part of that is still reinforcing your boundaries. Hey, I want to share with you something. I would really love if this stayed between us. I know that's a given, but I just want to reinforce this, that I just want this to stay between us. And so a lot of times when it's our best friends and our close friends, it's assumed. But also because it's assumed, some things are gray areas. And so for you, it might be very important and like, I don't want anyone to know. And for them, they might think it's something lighter. And it's like, oh no, actually, like, I don't want you sharing that with anybody else. And so I think just being direct with what you want. I don't want you to share this with anybody else. I don't want you to give me advice. I want your input. I would love— I'm going through a hard situation in my marriage, but I just want you to know that I don't want to share details right now, but I just want you to know I'm going through a hard time. Like, Set that boundary of how deep you are willing to go in that moment as well, while still letting your friends in, like, hey, I'm still struggling. You don't have to share all the things. So that's what I would say from my perspective. But like, how do you gauge that?

I, I think just retweet everything you said, like, just being clear about what, you know, needs discretion and is just between you and Just making sure that that's clear. And then I also hear you on like the smaller things. If like if the smaller things get out, then the big things will get out too. Yeah. And so just like knowing that if that person isn't honoring that and is just not someone that has the capacity to keep those things in, then like they're just not to necessarily be trusted with the bigger things. It doesn't mean that you cut a friendship.

Maybe you do.

But like, you're just, hey, I don't go to them for that. And I've learned that and that sucks, but you know, that's okay. I have other people I can lean into. I think another thing that has really helped me with my friendships is asking my friends, is there anything that I'm doing in this friendship that is hurting you, hurting us, causing conflict? Causing insecurity. Like we all have our blind spots, and oftentimes we don't know what you know. We we don't. Like we sometimes don't know that we're when you do this, this ticks me off. This makes me insecure when you say this. Like we don't know, and I think that is a vulnerable question that I I actually learned in a work setting, and that's a whole other topic. But that was very healthy. And I've taken it into my friendships and it has led me to be closer with my girlfriends because they've been honest with me. And like one of my friends was like, yeah, I sometimes feel like you push your dreams onto me. And I was like, whoa, that is huge. Like, she's like, yeah, and it makes me feel XYZ. I'm like, okay. All right. Like, heard. And I think that like totally changes then like how I would approach career conversations, how I would approach like different things. And other girlfriends have been honest with me as well and me to them. And then it's like, okay, how can I— what are the things you love about this friendship? What are things we can do better? Um, because it is like such an intimate relationship. So just like opening up that space and allowing feedback.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Is like a healthy practice, I think, to build in your close friendships because oftentimes it's going to be really tough to just say it out of the blue and be like, hey, when you do this, it makes me feel—

Yes.

We can do it, but like setting that precedent in the relationship where you have that like safe place to say, hey, This is what's going on. And like, this makes me feel some type of way. It's just helpful when you can do that with each other. And it's like, hey, you know what? I'm so sorry. Like, thank you so much for being honest with me. And I'm sure that was really hard to share. Like, I received that. I want to do better. I never want to make you feel that way. Like, I love you. I, I'm going to like work on that. I'm going to actively work on it. And I want you to call it out next time you see it. Like, just being able to say that and not be like, well, I, I don't do that. It's like, well, obviously you do if they're bringing it to you. So anyways, that's my monologue on that.

No, I love that. I think a huge thing that you do really well, and I want to acknowledge this and call this out in you, is that you're a really, really great friend. And a lot of times those deeper conversations can happen because so much trust has been built up by you being the first person to always ask, hey, what can I do better? You being the first person to ask, how are you doing really? Here's how I'm feeling. I feel like there's been a lot of, especially in the beginning of our friendship, where I didn't know where our friendship stood or You know, everything's just so new where I feel like that process was gapped and brought in even faster because you led with vulnerability and you're like, here's what I've navigated. Here's where I remember our Colorado trip. Like, that would be the main one where we both shared a lot. And in a sense, I felt safe and comfortable to share my side of things because you led, you trusted me, you went out on a limb. Like, truly, you didn't fully know me 4 months into our friendship. You're like, I hope this girl doesn't share stuff. And I'm sure you hoped, and you're like, she doesn't seem like she will.

Yeah.

But when we're in those early stages of the friendship, you just don't know. And so I think something that's important in this is if you want deeper conversations with your friends, we need to be the first ones to lead. We need to be the first ones to bring it to the table. Because that will help those that are maybe not as used to doing it know how to do it.

Yeah.

You teach them or you figure it out together. You're like, hey, this is uncomfortable, but I want to know how you're doing really. That is also as we navigate our 30s and there's a lot of, as women, if you decide to have kids, hormones and postpartum depression and there's just a lot of levels to a lot of changes— work, family, marriage— like, how are you really, I think, are so important to our mental health conversations.

Yeah.

Um, and so something that I was gonna share, a question that I love, is how are you feeling about insert blank? So how are you feeling about your job lately instead of how is your job? Because I think that changes the response of what they might say. So if I ask you, how are you and Matt doing? Okay, yeah, we're doing good. This is going, you know, like regular life updates. But I want to know, how are you feeling about your marriage? And I think that's an important conversation that as women, like, do we have a safe space to say, actually, I'm feeling insecure in my body right now? Or like, actually, I'm feeling Like, there's not a lot of romance right now, or I'm feeling whatever it might be. You're not saying that how is your marriage, like the marriage lacks romance. It's just how you're feeling.

Feeling.

And that's also like what your girlfriends are there for that I think like can be such a loving and supportive thing in life in general is like, how can I hear out your feelings, understand you, you can vent. I know they're just feelings. And you can also tell me the facts. You can also tell me where things are actually at and being able to separate those. But life gets heavy when we hold all those feelings in and when we think, well, are my friends going to think now that I'm going to quit my job or my marriage isn't good or my partnership isn't good? Or like, yes, I am in a mental, you know, like, I need to find help. I don't think your close friends will whenever you're able to share those things with them.

Yeah, I, I completely agree. That's such a good distinction. And I love that question of like, how are you feeling about insert category? Um, I think that's beautiful. I have loved this conversation. This was like so much fun to talk about.

I love it. It was so fun.

Shout out to my girlfriend Danielle for the podcast. topic idea. I love you. This was great.

Yes, this was amazing. Please keep sending these in. We try to come up with topics that would be helpful to you all, and it's always so incredible when we get to hear from you all of what you want us to chat through. And this was one that hadn't really crossed our minds, and it's something that we are very passionate about. And last thing I'll say is buy the We're Not Really Strangers deck of cards. If you want to dive deeper with anyone out there, they have a friendship deck, they have a relationship deck, they have so many different ones. And if you're lost on how to start, just plan a game night, plan a date night, buy the deck, go through the questions, and it helps release a lot of that pressure on there. So, um, yeah, anything else that you wanted to share before we sign on off?

No, this was lovely. Um, thank you for listening. Thank you for all the suggestions on what to talk about next. Feel free to leave a review on Spotify or iTunes. You can even write a review if you're listening on iTunes. We love you so much if you do that. And connect with us on Instagram @inbetween.pod. That's the best place to send episode suggestions or feedback. And it's really cool to read your messages when you DM us on, like, when you listen to an episode and it makes you feel seen, or you end up doing something, like it ends up making you take action, you feel inspired. Like, we've been getting a lot of those lately, and that's just really meaningful to us. So thank you so much. And if you ever want to connect with me personally, you can do that @AlexisTeichmiller.

And you can connect with me @AstraJohannaPhoto. We will chat with you all next time.