Long Distance Relationships and Supporting Your Partners Goals

Welcome to The In Between Podcast. I'm Astrid.

And I'm Alexis. And we're 2 best friends on a journey to living a fun, intentional life.

We know it's easier to share on a season of life once it's behind you, but what about when you're in the middle of the growth, confusion, and decision-making?

This lifestyle podcast is for the everyday gal who loves to travel, talk about business, relationships, fashion, and everything in between.

All right, friends, welcome Welcome back to another episode of The In Between Podcast. This is one of your co-hosts, Astrid.

And I'm the other half, Alexis.

And today we have a special guest, our first guest, which is Alexis's husband, Matthew. Matthew, welcome to The In Between.

Thank you. Thanks for having me on.

We're so excited to have you. So Alexis and Matthew just celebrated their 3-year Anniversary, wedding anniversary. But how long have you guys been together total?

Go for it.

So how long have we been together total? So we dated in high school. Do you want to go back to that? All right, so we dated in high school for 3 years— 2 years, I remember 3.

Like 3.

And, uh, we dated our junior and senior year. And then we broke up and then we got back together after 3 years apart. And we've been together since May of 2014.

Coming up on your tenure.

I know our tenure will be 2024, 10 years together, which is crazy. But yeah, we've been together a hot minute. The majority— well, all of our dating in our 20s was all long distance. And then we got married. We were together for 10 months and then we did 2 years of long distance marriage.

Which is wild.

Yeah, which is crazy. And now we're back together full time.

You got back together?

We're back.

You know what I'm saying? We are— that sounds like we broke up. Now we are no longer long distance. We are together every single day now, which is really fun.

It's amazing. It's been an honor to like watch your relationship, especially the last 3 years, just starting as your photographer first and then as your friend. Like, I admire how much you guys have intentionally put into your relationship, especially for a long-distance marriage. And really, I just want to ask you guys a million questions because I feel like you have a master's on long-distance dating and long-distance marriage.

Yes, definitely not perfect, but we do know a lot. We've learned a lot about ourselves and each other and relationships in general. So yeah, I'm excited for this episode. I hope it gives a peek into the real side of relationships as well as hopefully makes you guys laugh a little bit too. But before we dig in, let's do what we're in between right now. Astrid, do you want to go first?

Yes, I'll kick us off. Or actually, do we want our guest to go first?

All right, I'll go first. So, um, I knew that you did this every, every episode, so I've been thinking for a little bit on what I could say. So I think what I'm in between right now literally is jobs, um, or I guess roles with work. So moving out of— so I'm a geologist and moving out of an international ops position working in South America to now working in the office back here in Houston. Um, a big, big change. So I'm trying to navigate that and figure out what I— what do I want this next chapter to look like and how to tackle it.

Yeah, that's, that's amazing. I feel like even though you're back home full-time, I'm sure there's a period too of grieving, like, the life that you've had for the past year or so. Anytime that we transition from habits and rhythms, it can be hard to kind of get used to those new, new days overall.

Yeah, for sure. Um, I— well, you go, you go next.

Okay. Um, for me, I have in between— I mean, it's kind of similar to the one that we had last week. So I've just been in a very busy season as a photographer. Um, but last week I was talking about overall feeling overwhelmed with what was going on. And this past weekend was really interesting because I was getting pretty close to an anxiety attack and I could feel those things all over again, like my chest get tight and I just recognized the symptoms. And so that to me is a big warning moment of like, okay, I really got to scale back.

Yeah.

And what I realized in that moment was It's less about the things on my plate and more my mentality around it. And so I'm really trying to focus around that. And I really focus on walking myself back through it and be like, okay, just because we have all these things to do, taking them away is not going to ease the anxiety. It is realizing that I am resilient enough to cope through this and I will be able to accomplish everything that I need to accomplish in the designated time. And just taking deep breaths because that stress, physically, we don't breathe enough.

Right.

And so that's what leads to the anxiety attack and that tightness in our chest. So yeah, so I feel like even though, of course, it wasn't a positive experience, I'm learning right now how to be very productive in a new level and how to walk myself through all these anxious thoughts. And stop thinking that I need to eliminate those factors, but rather push through it. How can I grow and build my resiliency towards that? So that's where I'm at. And it's really hard. It's really hard to go through all of it. And in those moments, it can feel overwhelming, but I'm just trying to learn from them.

I'm really proud of you, and I'm sorry that you had to experience that this weekend. It can feel very— it can also feel very isolating. Because it's like you're in your own head, you have your own stress, like you're in your own body in it, and it can just be really hard to communicate with the people that you're with that you are feeling that way. Um, so I'm sorry that you had to experience that, and it sounds like you have like perspective on what you want to do with it. I think that's sometimes like the hard part is like we can see our mental health and we can see these symptoms.

Mm-hmm.

It's like making a plan and actually trying to figure out, okay, I'm recognizing this pattern. What do I want to do from here? That can just be really hard. So I'm really proud of you for, you know, I know it's not easy and it's not perfect, um, and there will still be those days, but it's like, it sounds like you have perspective, which sometimes can be really hard when you're going through it. Yeah. Yeah.

Thank you. And I think the most confusing thing for me is like feeling that and being so happy. It's so weird, like both things at once. I was like, I was having the time of my life. I was, you know, in a beautiful place. I love what I do. I love every single session that I get to edit and I enjoy it. And I had all this anxiety on top of it. So it's, it's very odd, but you know, nothing is— everything's just, you know, messy and we're just still trying to figure it out.

So—

In between.

Yes.

What are you in between?

I really resonate with this, the feeling very happy in a lot of areas of life and so many things that are going well, but just feeling internally like something's super off. I feel like, I don't know if it's seasons changing, time of year, certain triggers or what, but I have just been the last couple weeks in and out of a depressive episode and it just really sucks. I feel like my mind is like back at square one with things sometimes of just feeling very like, here we are again, and like, you're never gonna insert whatever. And so I just feel like I'm navigating that in trying to just call it out quicker. Like, oh, I'm feeling this right now. Okay, what do I want to do about it? Um, I think that's something that I am trying to shorten the distance of not fixing, not trying to always shift into fix mode, but just being able to name how I'm feeling and why I'm feeling that way or even not know why, but just saying what I feel is liberating instead of keeping it in for me ends up manifesting in a very shamey way where I'll just internally beat myself up over and over again.

Yeah.

I've just been like telling Matthew almost first thing in the morning. We woke up yesterday morning and I was like, I feel very depressed this morning. Like, I feel— I mean, like, the moment we woke up, nothing happened. I just woke up out of bed. And he was like, okay, walk me through your next 3 steps. You're gonna get up and what are you gonna do?

Wow.

And that like really, really helped me just focus on like the next step, not trying to feel better, not like Well, like look at all the things that you could be happy about. It's like okay, let's just focus on the next three things like that you're gonna need to take care of yourself. So I was like okay, I'm gonna make a smoothie and I'm gonna get my coffee. And it was like really helpful to walk through that. So I'm working on it. But yeah, I just feel really like I'm just in like a shit space head like in my head. And I hate that because it's like I've got all these goals and all these dreams, all these things. I'm like. actively working on. And then I feel like sometimes when this comes up, I don't know how to keep taking action on those goals because I'm like, I just don't even have the energy to think about it. So that's where I am. If anyone is like in this place, I am in it with you. It is hard to just like push through when you're in those really low headspaces.

Yeah.

Wow.

Thank you for your vulnerability with sharing that. Like, that's So powerful. And also just to learn how you navigate it is so powerful too. You're able to, for example, one thing that I kept hearing as you were sharing that is naming that feeling. And that's so powerful because I think our default is to ignore and our default is just to avoid and power through because in that guilt of not sticking to certain goals or just certain things, is so heavy. And it's almost like when the water's— the current's going against you and you're pushing the other way.

Right.

And you're choosing to turn around and be like, no, I'm gonna go with the current. I'm gonna face what it is and I'm gonna walk forward. And so instead of that heaviness that way, you turn back around. And even more powerful that you have a partner that's like not forcing you to fix the big feeling or emotion because that can— you know, when you love someone, That can be the tendency in a very loving way. You want to try to fix and help, and I'm here to listen to you. But the fact that, like, you, Matthew, were able to walk her through just the next 3 steps is probably the best thing you could have done in that situation.

Yeah, we've definitely worked on that. So there's been times where it's like, I think at first in our relationship, I do want to fix stuff, so I would rather Tell Alexis. I'd rather be like, okay, well, I don't know why you're thinking like that. Look at all these things to be grateful for. But we've had a lot of conversations over the 3 years or 8 years that that's not a productive conversation. A productive conversation is— well, first of all, in the past we've talked about, is this a solutions conversation or is this a feelings conversation?

Mm-hmm.

So do we need to be figuring out a solution or do we need to just be sitting with each other's feelings and listening to the other person. And over the years, uh, working on myself and then Alexis working on herself and her teaching me about all that, it's definitely found out the best way to resolve something like that, a depression or negative thoughts, is to actually kind of come up with a list. And it's like, okay, well, what are, what are we, what are you gonna do next? Like, what are you doing today? Okay. So like, let's, let's walk through what we can do to kind of get out of that space or, or kind of promote conversation. Because I think the worst thing to do whenever, whenever you are feeling that way is for you just to sit in that by yourself. You verbalize that to me, which helped us kind of break down that wall together.

Yeah, no, I agree. And I think it's also like, um, Giving your partner, I guess we're like shifting into marriage chat already.

So I love it.

I love it. Let's just let it roll.

Go right into it. I think it's like giving your partner the tools. You know, like I had never. I first like experienced depression in a deep way in 2018, early 2019, and I did not. I did not know what was happening. I didn't know why I was feeling that way. I didn't know how to explain. I didn't know how to help people help me. I didn't know what kind of support I needed. So, when you're going through it, you literally don't know because you're trying to navigate it too. I think the longer that time has passed and the more that I can notice it, feel the trigger, and communicate with Matthew through it, it's like I know that even though I have those days, he is right there walking alongside me in it. He doesn't necessarily understand everything. He doesn't need to under— and, I think that we put those expectations on our partners regardless of whatever it is. Like, you know, I can't expect Matthew to have a deep understanding of like all of my emotional triggers or trauma or depression or whatever it is.

Mm-hmm.

But, what I can invite him to is I can invite him into to know how to help me navigate it or support and how to communicate it. And like, there are certain phrases or words that will sometimes not feel helpful or supportive. And so, I'm like, actually, if you want to ask about my mental health, maybe ask it this way. Or, my saying is, I'm feeling really low today. And, that's his trigger of like, okay. So, that's her headspace today. And, I don't have to even go into anything. I can literally just say, I'm feeling low today, and he automatically knows where to meet me. But that's taken time, like you said, like that's taken a couple of years to get to that place where, you know, we're kind of walking in tandem with that. And that's been helpful.

And I think, obviously, the longer that we're married, and the longer that we're together, I'll be able, able to pick up on those cues without you telling me, hey, I'm feeling low today. But I think early on in a marriage, it's very valuable for if you wake up in the morning, you're not feeling yourself, tell your spouse, be like, hey, I'm just not 100% today, just to let you know.

I agree. And it's like, also, mental health is hidden. Like, sometimes you— I am very good at hiding it. Um, it's not even intentional. Like, it's just, it's not something that I— it's not something that you'll always see that's happening in me.

So anyway, that's so powerful.

That's how we navigate mental health right now in our marriage.

I love it. No, it's so powerful. I think like The biggest thing that I kept hearing was respect and ownership on both sides of you, right? And so you guys, you're asking her questions instead of telling her what to do, or have you tried this, or how do you— all these different, you projecting or like saying into her, you're truly asking her questions to help her figure out where she's at. And for her, it's an invitation then for her to accept and communicate. And so it's a two-way street where you're inviting her, but she could shut down and she could say, no, I'm fine, which can be a default in some relationships. Like, no, I'm fine. Like, I'm fine. Just stop asking questions and moving forward. So on the flip side, you're taking ownership and communicating that back. And of course, it sounds like you guys said, sounds great now, but it took you quite a bit to get to where you're at now that you could communicate it. And I think too, Just being able to get to the point where you can communicate to your partner is hard because suddenly you have to— it's another layer of facing it, right? So when it's just you, there's that layer of I can avoid it or I can talk to myself about it and face it. But when there is that third element of you can face it yourself and then also expose to a partner that will now see those vulnerabilities and To them and trust them with that vulnerability, that they won't use it against you in the future, can be very hard as well. And so I just think it's beautiful how you guys have learned through this season of how it is that you prefer to be communicated to. And I'm sure that will change over time too. Maybe later on you're like, I don't want 3 steps, I want you to ask me this. But communicating how do you feel supported and how do you want him to be a partner in life and not be your everything, which is very different.

Yeah, completely agree.

So going into that, I'm curious, you guys dated, of course, long distance and had long distance marriage most of your marriage so far. How did you— like, these types of situations and challenges in life, how did you create depth in your relationship? Because I feel like that's a fear of many people jumping into a long distance relationship that I don't think we're going to be able to create the roots that we need? Um, yeah, let's start with— let's start there.

That's a great question. Do you want to go first? Do you want me to go?

No, I— okay, so I feel like I need to back up a little bit on our early story. So a big thing with us is that actually before we started dating in high school, whenever we were really young, We were actually friends first, and we were good friends, almost best friends, before we, we came together and we were like, hey, you're attractive.

We're also 16, so.

That's true. But, um, I think that is an important backstory that's also helped our relationship now and our relationship through long distance because we were friends first. And we've learned how to kind of navigate that as a positive because, uh, we've learned how to be there for each other, not only as, as a boyfriend and girlfriend and spouse, but as friends too. Right.

And I think that's where, like, the intimacy part of a relationship— it's like, oh, long distance, like, the question around depth and intimacy is like, will you be able to get there when you aren't physically together. And I think because we had a foundation first of trust and of friendship, I do think that it honestly gave us a little bit of a leg up, I suppose. Or like, it gave us— that was our unfair advantage.

Mm-hmm.

Because I do think like, that was kind of the secret sauce in a lot of ways to the beginning of our relationship. And then I think, you know, Even friendship can only take you so far. There were other skills that we had to learn to navigate the long distance as well. But the first year of dating, we read a book on friendship, how to be a good friend to each other.

What book was it?

My mom actually got it for us.

It was like a really— Shout out to Lisa.

Shout out to Lisa. It was a really small thin book that Um, I don't even— I don't remember what it was called. I'm sorry. But it was like a small, thin book on like how to be a good friend. And we like read that together, and that was really cool. And like we would read books together. Um, that was really helpful. And I— go ahead.

It was a very inward-focused book too, because it was like you have to know about yourself first before you can be a good friend.

And that's powerful.

A great building block.

I agree. I also think Another element that really helped us was we are rooting for each other, and I think that is another element to a relationship when you're long distance. That like Matthew was rooting for my career. He he was the one that literally said after one year of dating long distance, he's in Colorado and I'm in Illinois. Just graduated college. He's like, "You have to move to Nashville if you don't." You will always regret it. And honestly, I think if you stay, we probably won't make it. Like I think that if you stay in Illinois and and you stay at home and you live in Effingham for the rest of your life, I don't know if we're going to make it.

Did I? Did I say those words? Yeah.

It's very strong.

You didn't.

You're like, I don't know.

I don't.

I don't. It wasn't an ultimatum either. It wasn't like if you stay, we're gonna break up. It wasn't like that. It was like. I don't know if you are going to be happy with the life that we would build if we stayed. And he— and then, you know, he made it about me of like, what do you want your career to look like?

Mm.

And then I moved and it changed the trajectory of my career and my life. And I rooted for him. I was like, you're going to school. He got into grad school. Like, that was a— that was a fork in the road for us that, that decision. And so it was like rooting for his career and for him to succeed with or without me. And this is the thing that I think long-distance relationships really struggle with, is like, I rooted for Matthew if it meant we ended up together or not.

Yeah.

And, um, I didn't ever want my selfish desire to be with him to outweigh the potential for him to reach all of his goals and everything that he could be. Um, so that was really important to me. It was like never sacrificing myself or never sacrificing just being together. Um, which is why we were long distance for 5 years. Um, so yeah, that's my little like monologue there.

So to add on that, with, uh, with you, with me encouraging you to move to Nashville, I think a big thing that— so you and I were in a business class our last year of high school, and a big thing that we learned was kind of being uncomfortable and allowing that to help you grow. And less on— there's immense amount of opportunities back home, but for us, we were almost a little too comfortable back home. And I saw, and we saw in each other immense amount of growth if we were to become just a little bit more uncomfortable. And that was that part, was you moving to Nashville, being uncomfortable, being the only one there that you know, and building a community. And the same with me moving to Colorado. Being uncomfortable allows for immense amount of growth.

That's beautiful, friends. Dang, I love it. I think that's something that a lot of relationships now too— there's this saying of merging into one and And there still needs to be sacrifice and there still needs to be certain things, especially if you're married, right? But if you're dating and going back to where you were at of like high school seniors going into college, we have some college students that listen to this too. Being able to focus on, hey, if we end up together, I want to root for you. And if you want to go to a different school, like we don't have to go to the same school. We don't have to just to like have that proximity. And I think that's something that has been very powerful in witnessing and hearing about your relationship is that you respected each other as individuals and your true partners in life, not just merging into one. You pick up and leave everything and move to Colorado as dating, right? Because it's different when you're married.

100%.

But as dating, you're like, I'm going to build my life too. And also props to you, Matthew, for being like, what do you want in life? Right? And asking those questions and being like, is this what you want? And whatever. And then if she would have said, I want to stay in Illinois, you would probably be like, okay, great. That's what you want. But you were just challenging her. And the act of challenging is such a beautiful part of it.

Yeah, I agree. I do think if I could say one thing about your early 20s, whether you're in college or your early 20s and you're dating someone, this really is your opportunity to Be independent and learn who you are outside of the relationship. Because codependence and proximity together are going to breed a really enmeshed, unhealthy relationship where you're not going to be able to tell each other apart. You're going to agree to things you don't agree to. You're going to do things that you don't want to do. You're going to say things you don't want to say.

Yeah.

Because you aren't confident in who you are on your own. You're so reliant on the relationship to guide you. And I have been in a relationship like that, and it is really hard to know, you know, the direction that you're trying to go because the other person is like literally steering the ship to your own life. And so I think because I had that experience, I wanted my relationship with Matthew to be different. You know, I wanted to see what could it look like to do this healthy and calm and like rooted in a lot of trust. And almost a peace of like, it's going to work out however it's going to work out instead of trying to control the relationship.

So powerful. So powerful. I love it too. Going back to dating, if you guys started as friends, if you were to give a piece of advice to someone that's going into a long-distance relationship as dating, but they perhaps didn't get that friendship first, What would be your advice to build depth, to build that connection, and to build just a healthy relationship overall?

You got this one first.

You know what I'm gonna say? No, I don't.

Oh, oh yeah.

The word that I always say is communication, and Alexis laughs at me because I'm like, communication, communication, communication is key. And that cracks her up. I think for us, a big default that we fell into with our long-distance relationship is that we would almost, we would almost fall out of lovers and kind of fall into that friendship zone where it's like, hey, we're almost acting like friends now rather than being in love with each other. Uh, I mean, Is this really going to work out? And we struggled with that a lot where it's like, man, like we're in 2 different places in our life. You're in grad school. I'm in Nashville. Like, should we just be friends? And we definitely had to battle through that. And as much as I do joke about it, communication through everything— excuse me— communication through everything was huge. Uh, just small things here and there. With— because she was not in Colorado with me, uh, no matter what I was doing, I woke up in the morning, I was going to the gym, I'm going to class, I'm going to hang out with friends. A small one-sentence text every 2 or 3 hours went so far because 8 hours, 10 hours of not talking to each other can just spiral in anybody's mind. It's like, okay, well, I'm not out there with them. Who are they hanging out with? Okay, well, they're hanging out with this person that I don't know very well. Okay, well, yeah, it just spirals out of control. And to be on top of that is just small texts throughout the day.

I think that's specific to like long distance too. If you're in a long distance relationship dating, like being able to check in and have those, those like pulse points to the relationship are really helpful. In terms of dating advice, I would say a couple of things. It's really important to find someone who matches your maturity level. Trying to date someone who is at a different maturity level, different growth level, different emotional intelligence level than you, it's not impossible, but it does make growing And being on the same page about where you are in the relationship quite difficult. So I think that's one thing I would look out for is like, is who you're dating, are they mature? Do they, do they listen? Are they kind? How do they treat other people? I think that being able to sit back and be a witness to your relationship sometimes, take the feeling out of it for a second.

It's hard.

But, be a witness to your relationship regardless of what relationship you're in and kind of start to see some of your partner's behavior. Is it trending towards aligning with your values or can you subjectively say, I don't really know if I like how he does that or she says that or he talks about people when they're not around or she treated the waiter really rudely when he accidentally spilled a little bit of water.

Yeah.

Little things like that will tell you people's behavior. And I think when you're dating, spot it, call it out, bring attention to it. We're not breaking up with them. We're just having a conversation about it instead of suppressing the red flag or suppressing the thing that bothers you when you're dating and hoping that it gets better because I genuinely don't believe it does. If you don't bring something to the light, it's just going to continue to fester and grow root.

All right, I have to ask, do you feel like we were on the same maturity level when we started dating?

No.

I just saw you and I was like, I love you.

She's sharing advice from experience. She's like, this is what I like.

And I think that's— can I say why I feel that way?

Yeah. I mean, I was gonna say it's, it's science. 'Cause I mean, you're a, you were a 21-year-old female and I was a 21-year-old male. And I feel like the, the things that I prioritized at a 20, 21-year-old, um, I don't even wanna look back and reflect on, like we were just in 2 different places on stuff that we cared about. Um, and I, even though I wish I knew more about myself Up until when we started dating, I had to learn. I had to continue to learn a lot about myself to grow and become more mature, more mature, even after we started dating, which I'm sure that was probably difficult for you at times.

Yeah, I would say in a way we helped each other because sometimes I would take life too seriously and Matthew would be like, We're young. Like, you know, it was like this, this high standard and pressure that I would put on myself. And I felt like he had a really good way of calming the noise and adding like a beautiful level of perspective to things. And then there were moments where like I would share with him my perspective on like the vision and the goals. And like, I was very ambitious. I mean, I still am, but like in this early pocket of our relationship, I think it was more of like our priorities, something that we aligned on was we aligned on the commitment to each other and we aligned on our ambition. We were both very, very ambitious people.

Mm-hmm.

And I think that like I saw our future together very, very clearly and it looks a hell of a lot like it does right now. And I think because we were aligned in the areas that were really important to me, The parts of his 21-year-old mentality of like going out and being in college. Like I was, I don't know, I just kind of saw us in that season. It was like, this is a season of life, but this isn't who he is. And I think like, you know, when you're dating someone and you're 19, 20, 21, like look at your environment, you know, like it's going to influence behavior, but it's like, okay, is this a season or is this a pattern? Like, is this his personality?

Right. Yeah, like long-term with that.

Right.

So I'm curious because you're sharing about 21-year-old Alexis and Matthew being maybe on different maturity levels and pages. And then now here you are married 3 years in and you have a lot of self-awareness and you're still growing and evolving, but you really know each other. So how did you guys in the midst of long distance dating and marriage navigate your growth seasons and like challenge each other through those, those seasons of, yeah, like I'm here and I'm learning this about my healing journey and my trauma and all of that. And then you're here and then you're learning all of this. How did that go? That's a good question.

That's a very good question.

I feel like we weren't always growing at the same time. And I think if you can invite patience into your relationship when maybe you're not in a season of like immense amount of growth and introspection and your partner is, like how can you be really respective of their journey? And then on the flip side, like even just communicating, I'm in like a— I mean, when I moved back to Illinois, whenever we moved back to Illinois, sorry, we were 26. 27, 26. And I went right back into therapy, like intense, intensive therapy for 7 months because being back home just brought up a bunch of stuff for me. And I was like, you know what? I just want to get over this. Like, I just want to be done with this. And he's in a third world country. He is on a drill ship offshore. Like, he is deep into his job and I'm over here doing like intense psychotherapy. So I'm like, I mean, this is the polar opposite of our experience, you know? And like, I'm laughing and smiling about it now because it's like, you know, it, it, it— that was our reality. And so it was, it was up to me to invite him into that process of like, this is what I'm learning and here's how I'm healing. And I read this book and then this unlocked and I feel like so much clarity and I feel like I'm letting this go. And he's like rooting for me, rooting for me, rooting for me, asking questions, no judgment. And that's one thing that like, if I admire one thing about Matthew that I aspire to be more like, is he's not judgmental.

Mm-hmm.

Like at his core, he just, he's like just curious, wants to ask questions, but never from a place of shame. And I think that is like what really makes us work when we're in those healing spaces is like when I'm deep in it, he just is very curious, holds space. And if I want to talk about it, he explores it with me. And if he doesn't, or if I don't, he doesn't push either, which I really respect.

That's kind.

Thank you.

Yeah, I feel like I And I'm definitely not perfect. I appreciate you saying all that. And I just want to put myself in your shoes as much as I can just to learn, because throughout the therapy that you've gone through, I've learned so much about myself. Because there's, there's been stuff that's come up that you've brought up where I'm like, oh, well, I experienced that too whenever I was younger. And I see how like Alexis is working through it. And it's like, okay, like, I'm just learning so much from all the knowledge that Alexis is bringing in through therapy and through these books. Um, and it's helped me really understand more about myself and mature. Um, and then there's, there's those times where it's like, okay, well, I didn't really experience that, but tell me, tell me what you went through. Like, help me understand so that I can be there for you, and I can also learn more about you and what makes you tick along the way.

Mm-hmm.

And I feel like you sharing everything with me, um, from like all of your uncoverings from through therapy and through reading books and learning about yourself, um, and sitting with your thoughts, um, has been beautiful. And I appreciate you communicating that with me because over the years of us dating long distance and kind of going back to your question about us kind of maturing together, That definitely helped a lot was Alexis's just communication with, with her feelings and with past traumas and, and what you really learned about yourself, not on the outside, but internally.

What about you, Matthew? Do you feel like there are seasons where like you were in a really intense season of growth and I maybe wasn't? And like, how did you feel supported in that or not supported?

I felt maybe through grad school.

Oh yeah, I did not. I mean, bro is a scientist writing a thesis, and I'm like, I am over here traveling, you know, the world with ConvertKit. And I'm like, you know, you know that spinning like a ballerina, the TikTok audio that's like, and then the other one's like, I feel like 2 years that was genuinely Matt and I, not all the time, but like, I was like the one off doing the stuff and I felt like he was in the trenches of grad school, pun intended, for his career.

That's very, very funny. So, uh, I never really wanted to go to grad school. I just knew that for my career as a geologist, Um, I needed to go to grad school and I was ready for school to be done once I graduated with my bachelor's degree. Uh, so being in grad school where I had a great time and I learned so much and it honestly set me up for where I am today, like hands down, I didn't wanna be there. I wanted to be working and I saw Alexis out working and I was kind of like, man, there's a big disconnect cuz I wanna be where you are right now. And I know you don't want me to be in grad school. So it was definitely hard.

I have another question. How did you handle me making money, like career woman money while you were in grad school? Because I feel like when you're dating or married, whatever, money can feel like a score. I mean, it's not, but it can feel like, oh, well, you're making more than me, or I'm making more than you. I'm still in school or you're still in school. Like there can just feel like these kind of inequities sometimes in the relationship around money. So I'm curious how you felt about that.

I knew that one day my salary would surpass you. Oh, he's kidding. He's kidding.

That was amazing though.

We love it. No, I mean, it was definitely difficult because all I wanted to do was be able to make my own money and I I went through a grad school program where, because I was so blessed to have just amazing professors and be able to pick my own research project, it came along with no funding. So I chose that. I chose that for myself that I didn't want to be funded, but that also meant for 2.5, 3 years through my master's program, I had to live on next to Mm-hmm. Um, and I had to take out student loans and something I had never had to do through undergrad. So it was definitely, it was definitely difficult. Um, and I saw you out living life and I wanted to be there for sure, but I knew that, I knew that we one day would get married and that, that my thoughts and my reality in grad school would be a thing of the past. And I really wouldn't. Have to think of it like it'd be. Yeah, our beautiful future that laid ahead of us was gonna be great.

It was a season.

It was gonna be worth it. Yeah, yeah. And I also, it sounds like during that season was kind of a a big pivoting point for you guys because you probably also got to see Matthew in his most stressed out version, like grad school as a geologist, like this very intense feelings plus long distance and like having to communicate and. Then, you know, no funding for this either. So you're, you know, scrambling for budget and money. And so I just think overall, it's very interesting in relationships that have been together for such a long time, how I don't think the growth always happens at the same time. I think pretty much all the time it's in different seasons. And whenever it includes high school sweethearts to now, like late 20s, You'll grow and mature so much. And I just think it's fascinating how you guys have navigated all of this and grown together. And I'm sure at times it can feel— and I can only say from the outside point of view, I'm like thinking of me being in that position— that at times it probably felt like, okay, is this my person? Like, we feel like we're such on opposite pages, or like— I'm out here growing in this and then you're not, or vice versa. And like, what's happening? And I just think that can be hard to navigate in your early to mid-20s if you're in a committed relationship. And it's like that point of like, are we getting married or not? And there's so many different growth spectrums that are happening there too.

Oh yeah. The are we getting married or not was a big part of our Story, I I felt like there were moments where I was really ready for marriage. First off, I don't regret waiting as long as we did to get married. I actually we were our three-year anniversary was last week, and we were talking about pivotal moments that made our twenties so significant and choices that we made in our twenties. That deeply impacted our trajectory. And one of them for me was I'm glad that we got married at 5 and a half years into the relationship, at 26 and a half, with stable careers and stable jobs, after having lived apart, away from family, on our own, completely financially independent before getting married.

Mm-hmm.

Because I feel like that And that was what we as individuals needed. Not everyone needs that, but I feel like that really set up our relationship in a way that, I don't know, it just gave us a lot of time to figure out who we were outside of the relationship. And there were moments where I was like, I don't know where we're going. And I think that's a big thing for me that I've learned in our relationship is I have to have vision.

Yeah.

What is our next goal? Figure out what you and your partner need. Like, I need a goal. What are we working towards? We're working towards a savings goal so we can buy our next real estate investment. Okay, great. Like, that's something we can connect on. We can talk about it. Where are we pacing towards that goal? Like, is it marriage? And like, what's our timeline? And I think that was really hard for me to like nail down.

And I feel like putting a timeline on it is so hard. In any relationship, because it's— I mean, it's unrealistic to put a timeline on it and not call it an ultimatum. So—

Which I did not give.

I did not give that.

A big thing for me, and this is— you can call it old-fashioned, but I really wanted to have a job whenever I asked for Alexis's hand in marriage. I wanted to have a job. I wanted to be able to support myself and support her if need be. Um, so I mean, I was interning from January to April, and at the end of my internship, I got the job offer in April and we got engaged in May. So like, I, I immediately turned around, bought a ring, we got engaged.

He stuck true to his word. He was like, I want a job. And yeah, he was like, he had the job for 2 weeks, flew home, And we got engaged. So I think that's where too, like, is your partner following through on their promises? You know, like, if you are aligned in your goals and you hit it, is your partner following through? And like, that was something that Matthew and I always try to do for each other is like follow through for each other too. Not just work on the goal. We know what the goal is, but like, are we, are we making it to the finish line? And, um, that, that's where you can build additional trust and Yeah, that's beautiful.

I think also hearing you guys talk about how you let each other grow and mature and then decide, how do I want to step into the husband role and how do I want to step into the wife role, I think is something that in your— if you are in a long-term committed relationship in your 20s, perhaps it's the right person, but maybe not the right time. And so you guys were this is my person, right? I love them. I want to be with them. But perhaps things would look different and you would have had a few more bumps starting off your marriage if it would have happened earlier rather than going into it and like, this is what I want and this is what you want. Because as you know, in a relationship, it's a partnership. So if you each don't know who you are, then really you might love each other, but you could really hurt each other a lot without that layer of Individuality. So absolutely beautiful. Um, I just have one more question to kind of wrap things up, and we're going to bring it back to where we started on being in between seasons. So whenever we started, we shared our individual in-betweens. So I would love for you guys to share, what do you feel that you are in between now as a couple and a married couple? That's a good question.

Yeah.

You want to go first?

Well, I mean, it's together. We got to answer it together.

Well, do we have to agree?

We always got to agree. No.

You go. You share what you feel, and then I'll kind of expand on that.

Okay. So from my standpoint, I think what we're in between is kind of what's next. So we've been married for 3 years now. We have an amazing life here in Houston. Both of our jobs are going really, really well. Some of the side hustles that we have are good. We're still working on those. And it's like, do we continue in this space? And do we continue grinding? Or is there something else that we should be focusing all of our attention on? Something I brought up to Alexis last night, actually, when we were in bed, is we're working on our individual side hustles, but we do work really, really well together. Is there something that we should be working on together? Like, is there a business that we should work on together? And I wonder if that's next. Is that something that we can start and bloom into a great business?

Yeah, I agree. I, for those of you listening, Matthew and I purchased our first rental property at the beginning of 2021 and We renovated the whole thing together along with help from our family. And it was really cool to see us work together in that space. I mean, we renovated the house out of pocket. We gutted almost the whole thing and renovated it out of pocket. And it was like the first time that we'd ever had such a big, massive financial investment. And like, we did not know what we were doing. At all. So seeing us actually navigate that, I was like, wow. I was like, we—

We're amazing.

So I mean, hey, there were some tears in the Menards parking lot. I do not mean to glitter coat the experience, but at its core, we made really good business partners. So I do agree, we're in the what's next And I think another thing too is figuring out our community. Matthew and I are very social people and we're in between moving to a new city. Matthew's finally back here full-time. It's like, okay, we need to start being more social. There was like— We didn't do anything. And all of our friends that we do have here were out of town or busy. And I was like, okay, we need to start putting ourselves out there a little bit more.

It's like dating all over again, but as couples.

Dating as couples, that's like a whole other conversation. But yeah, I agree. It's like figuring out what's next. And then I think like the roots and community piece around being together and figuring out what the roots look like here in Houston.

That's beautiful, friends. Thank you for sharing that. I'm so excited for you in this season. I'm excited to see what comes of that conversation and what you guys create together too.

Thanks, friend.

Oh, well, thanks so much for joining us, Matthew. Is there anything else that both of you wanted to share before we kind of wrap up?

Yeah, um, I did want to kind of shout out to both of y'all. Um, it's incredible to like listen to your podcast and see how aware both of you are. You're like the most aware people that I know. Um, and I tend to not be— I don't know, I just tend to not be aware with like my feelings and, and like past traumas and just dealing with past stuff and actually productively reflecting on it. Um, and I feel like both of you are amazing at that. And like listening to your stories and kind of you two get along so well, and it's amazing like listening to you. But it helps me when I listen to the podcast. I'm sure it helps so many other people. So I love what you're doing and thanks for having me on.

Oh, thank you. That was so sweet. Also, I didn't know that you listened to the podcast. I never want to assume, but that was— that's very sweet. I did.

I learned how to negotiate my salary now.

It's actually really funny because on one of the episodes, I think it was on The one we talked about money mindset at the beginning, I was like, "She take my dinero," and that was last. I think it was like a couple weeks ago or last week, and he played that song on the way to date night because he heard it on the podcast.

It was. It's funny because she said that in two podcasts back to back, and then you called her out. You're like, "I'm pretty sure you said that last week." Oh, she did.

It's it's like her default. If you say money and dinero, she's like she starts singing.

I'm not winded at all. Which I also said on the last episode.

You did.

I've got my lines down. Okay. You're a performer.

Oh, I love it. Oh my God.

Thank you so much, Ashley. That was so fun. I feel like we were both like, okay, what's this going to be like? And I loved being on the receiving end of being interviewed by you. Fantastic interview, my love.

Thank you. My first interview.

You did great. You're a natural.

I've been trained by Alexis Teichmiller.

I love it.

I love it.

Well, anything you want to add on relationships or just anything from the pod before we leave?

I just want to say I really admire you guys, the way that you've navigated your relationship. And it's been truly beautiful to witness as a closer friend the past 2 years and how much respect you have for each other, how much You really are intentional about keeping your relationship healthy. And I know that that's not always easy, but you have that commitment above all. And I really admire that because you will push your own discomfort to a side to make sure that that relationship stays protected and healthy and loving. And it's beautiful and refreshing to see. And it's refreshing to see how much fun you have too. being 10 years in. Like, it's not what some people might say, like, oh, just wait till the first year is over. It's like, no, you, you, every year you're hitting a new level in your relationship, and that's beautiful. We need more couples like both of you.

I love it.

I feel like it's every day. Every day we hit a new level where it's like, did you love somebody more than this right here? Well, stay tuned. Tomorrow will be better.

My heart.

We are, we are clipping that and throwing it on TikTok and Reels, and you're gonna go viral, Matthew. And it's again, it's so precious.

Laid in bed last night, I had all of my clothes for New York scattered all over our bed, and I tried everything on, and he was like, I don't like the belt. Um, he was like, like, oh, I love that, that looks really great. And then there was one where I tried an outfit on, he was like, You are giving elf. I had this green, really cute shorts on with a fluffy knit cardigan and then a black belt. And he was like, you are giving Santa's helper. He was like, you look great though. If you want to wear it, wear it. And the more I looked in the mirror, I was like, once you see it, you can't unsee it.

You can't unsee it.

Have fun. Be in community with your partner. Like you're not just there to just do things for each other. Like be with each other, be in it together. Um, I love that.

Maybe that's your next side hustle. You guys can just style people together.

That's what I need. I need Alexis to style me.

I already do, baby.

I know. And you do so well. Yeah. I need to actually be willing to spend money on the things.

See?

Yeah. And we've already listened to Matthew and Alexis do the money mindset deep. Deep chat without Matthew there on my finances. So anyways, yeah, but thank you for having us. Like this isn't also my podcast.

Thank you for having me on my show. I really appreciate it. Well, friends, thank you so much for tuning in today. Hopefully you enjoyed our first guest and our incredible couple Alexis and Matthew. If you guys have Any questions on long-distance relationship, I'm sure they'd be happy to answer them. And yeah, if you want to find us on Instagram, we are @inbetween.pod. You can always connect with me on Instagram as well, @astrajohannaphoto.

Connect with me on all things, everything, including relationships, @alexisteichmiller.

See you next time.