Managing Anxiety, Empowering Rituals, and Focusing on What You Can (and can't!!) Control

Welcome to The In Between Podcast. I'm Astrid.

And I'm Alexis. And we're 2 best friends on a journey to living a fun, intentional life.

We know it's easier to share on a season of life once it's behind you, but what about when you're in the middle of the growth, confusion, and decision-making?

This lifestyle podcast is for the everyday gal who loves to travel, talk about business, relationships, fashion, and everything in between. Hello friends, and welcome back to another episode of The In Between. It is one half of the pod, Alexis.

And the other half, Astrid. And today we are talking about anxiety. It is one of our favorite topics. No, I'm kidding. But it is definitely something that we all really struggle with, especially as we navigate different seasons of life, as we're growing through our different careers, careers, through relationships, friendships, et cetera. Anxiety can be very crippling. And so we just want to have a conversation on how we navigate anxiety in our lives, how there's different aspects to it depending on what type of anxiety we're having, and perhaps sharing our own journeys with anxiety and how we've learned through the years to navigate it and how we're still learning on that too. can also help you to then also have your own journey with anxiety and cope with it better next time.

Yeah, I am really grateful that we're making space for this conversation. We haven't— I know we've talked about mental health a lot on the podcast in past episodes, but I don't think we've ever done an episode just on anxiety specifically. And this was actually a suggestion from one of you. A listener wrote in and asked if we could Do an episode on anxiety and how we navigate that while recognizing what we can control and what we can't control. And a lot of times anxiety can really play with our mind. It can make us feel like we are completely out of control, or we need to be in control of everything in order to feel better.

Mm-hmm.

And so it's this interesting in-between, both of those kinds of extremes, if you will. So I'm looking forward to digging into this. But before we do, we always start every episode with what we're in between right now. So do you want to go first?

Yeah, yeah, I can. Um, I currently find myself in a season where my 30th birthday is coming up. So I feel like the end of a decade and the start of a new one can always make you reflect so much more. And I'm I'm really thinking about what do I want this next decade to look like? I'm really thinking about the next 5 years. What is that going to entail in my life? What are priorities that I want to have in my lifestyle, in my career, and all of that? And so I feel like I am in this very uncomfortable in-between of picking through my life and just auditing it and saying, okay, is this headed where I want it to head? Just because something is great doesn't mean that we should still continue to pursue it. And that is in any regard, right? But do I still want that for the rest of my life, for the next 5 to 10 years? And so, yeah, so it's that very uncomfortable in-between where I need to look at myself in the mirror, really be honest with myself. And I've always struggled with I'm a very optimistic person. And so sometimes I can struggle with, well, this makes me really happy right now, so I can always just be happy if I still continue to do this and I can see things through to the end.

Yeah.

But if I really, really take a step back and think about other alternatives, a lot of times I'm like, okay, yes, but that's actually what I need or what I want my future to look like. So just because I can bring myself to be content with different situations doesn't mean that that's necessarily what I want. And so it's just hard and it's uncomfortable. And speaking of anxiety, it brings me anxiety because I'm like, well, I'm gonna have to end certain things. I'm gonna have to put a stop to certain habits that feel comfortable. And so, um, yeah, so that's a season that I find myself in, very much just exploratory before I make any, like, long-term decisions.

Yeah.

And Yeah, I don't know where we'll end up, but I'm excited for it and nervous.

It's also too, like, the end of your 20s, it does feel so monumental because you have lived so much life in the past 10 years. And so it's like you want to reflect and have that introspective time for your life. And then it's also like you're very forward-looking. So it's like, okay, what do I want the next decade to look like? And it can feel like a lot of pressure. So what would it look like to have fun with this new year of like turning 30? And when you're looking at the next 30 years— sorry, next 30 years?

I wish I could plan out that far.

Well, you at 60 years old. Um, I always send Astrid, like, there's all these cute little memes and videos online of like old, 2 beautiful old women, like best friends, and they're all dressed up and they're like in Paris or something. And I always send Astrid, I'm like, Like, if this isn't us, I don't want it.

Yes, absolutely. But I will be in 30 years retired and with you.

Truly. No, I, I feel that. And I hope that by taking time over the summer to travel and be in new places and new environments, I really do think that gives us so much perspective and sometimes clarity that when you're in the day-to-day and you're wondering what does life look like or what can life look like, It's kind of hard to picture when you're living the same day, not that you're necessarily doing that, but like, I don't know, there's something about monotony or like comfort that can just be like, well, this is good. You know? Um, so there's nothing like a 2-month trip to Europe to really push you mentally to be like, what do I want? And dream and all of that.

Yeah. And live my alter ego life. I think that's like So important too is putting away all the responsibilities and going and traveling somewhere else. I feel like I can dream a little bit better. But whenever I'm here, it's harder because I have that financial security thing. And it's just like, well, this feels just cozy and comfortable. And I just never want to go back to that place where things just felt okay.

Mm-hmm.

So we shall see what that brings. But with that, what are you currently in between?

I relate to this. I similarly am in between recognizing areas in my life that I feel complacent in and where I want to take action. So actually picked paint color, picked a design. We're going to buy trim and we're working on my office this weekend. So that'll— you'll see that online. You'll probably see that online before this episode even comes out. But just like noticing little things that have been just okay or fine or doable and really pushing myself to be fabulous. And I just want to live a really fabulous, amazing life. And that doesn't necessarily mean fabulous in materials. But I feel like I want to be someone that takes action and lives out the vision I have in my head, and the art I want to hang on the walls and the way I want to decorate and just the kind of car I want to drive. Like, there's all these little things that I want, which I guess those are material things. But okay, I am I'm self-aware. I do. I want to like, I want my life to reflect, I guess, the vision I have. And there's nothing more sometimes disappointing when a lot of time passes and the vision that you have in your head versus what you're living are not the same.

Mm-hmm.

And you can like really feel a sense of disappointment or frustration or even resentment towards yourself for not taking action in the ways that you really want to. And so I'm just slowly chipping away at some of those things in my life, and it feels really good. I'm also like taking action and outsourcing things that cause me stress and just like doubling down on some dreams that Matthew and I have. And it just feels exciting, like life is starting to feel exciting. And I think that when I come back from a trip, I get very like Depressed and sad and like, oh, can I just live that every day? And I want my life to— and it has been, but I want— I feel like I'm in this reinvention era right now where I'm kind of remolding myself. I want every day to feel like I don't need to go on a vacation. Yes, that's great. And I love traveling, but I want every day to feel a little bit more intentional than it does right now. And Yeah, just the last couple months have felt a little bit off for me. So I am working towards that because no one can do that but me. And yeah, I sometimes feel like I want to outsource that work.

Same, honestly.

Literally, somebody else just figured this out for me. Can somebody else just like take what's up here and just make it happen? And then I'll be like, I did it. That's the most honest, real version of me right there. Um, but no, I gotta do all the work. So all good things, but that's where I'm at mentally.

Well, thank you for sharing that. It's inspiring to hear what it is that you're navigating right now because you're such a habits queen and you keep your discipline up and you go into the gym and you have your nutrition and all these different things. And it's also such a great reminder that even whenever we're killing it, there's always areas that we want to grow in. And so sometimes It can be easy to compare ourselves to our friends, to the people that we see online and be like, oh, well they have it all together. Like they're so disciplined. They probably do everything that's on their list. And it's like, yes. And we all have things that it's harder for us to accomplish. And while we can be killing it in an area, we're still growing through other ones just like you. And so, yeah. Um, yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Cause I feel very inspired by you and hearing like, okay, this is an area where you're like, I have not taken the action. I want you when you are. It's huge. She's human.

She's not a robot. I found evidence.

But yeah, thank you. Yeah, I am excited. I know this has been on your radar for some time now. And also give yourself some grace. I know you're like, oh, I've been wanting to do this for a while and I should have done it sooner. And also let the inspiration flow when it flows. I feel like you probably do a lot of inspiration while traveling of the art that you want on your walls, how you want it to look, the things that you saw online. And then now you have the vision put together. And sometimes we just force, we want to force the vision just because we want to get it done. Totally. It just doesn't happen that way.

I know. So annoying, right?

I know.

Speaking of things that are annoying, anxiety. I think that anxiety can teach us a lot about where we're healing, where we maybe need to heal. Like, I think that anxiety can be an indicator, similar to what you said at the beginning of the episode, that something might be off base. Like, it's kind of a signal of, hey, maybe something's out of alignment, whether it's habits, job, relationship, um, or something internally is out of alignment. So like how we're talking to ourselves. Our belief system, our actions, like something is out of alignment. And so I'm really glad that we're talking about this because I think, and I've heard like a couple different therapists talk about this and even coaches, but they classify depression as like you're thinking about the past and the present and stuff that's happened in your past or stuff that's happening presently is making you feel depressed. And a lot of times anxiety is what's happening now and what's in the future. It's usually like more future-oriented. Not that you can't be anxious about things that happened in the past, like that meeting that you had and you're overthinking everything that you said about it. Like, yeah, that's definitely anxiety. But I do think that sometimes it can help me classify, okay, I'm anxious about something. Is it something that happened in the past? Is it happening right now? Or am I worried about something that's in the future that I genuinely like, I can prep for it, but I can't do anything about that. Like the only thing I can really do actively is what's happening right now in the present. And that kind of helps ground me or at least identify like, where am I placing this anxiety and what's the cause of it? And that can kind of help me figure out how I want to help myself navigate that. How do you identify that you're feeling anxious? And does that past, present, future kind of analogy, does that apply to you? Does that fit? Or what do you think?

Yeah. I love what you said about what you've learned from therapists about depression and what anxiety looks like more towards the future, because I definitely resonate a lot with that. I feel like I worry about the future a lot, and I feel like that's a big stem of my anxiety, especially as an entrepreneur. Things just change so much. And sometimes I just wish I would've just loved one career and been like, I am going to be a doctor, and then I will be a doctor till I die. It's like, okay, great. I have at least narrowed down focus. And As an entrepreneur, that's just not the case. And so I think in general, for me, anxiety pops up a lot with instability or things that can feel like they're unstable. And so I try to recognize and I try to weed through, is this part of my past trauma? And is this identifying with things from my childhood? So for example, finances. If finances feel a little rocky, for me, it might feel like double the anxiety because it triggers my childhood self. And little Astrid knew what would happen when finances weren't going to be there. And so there's just a lot of things that relate right there to the past. And then at the same time, whenever it comes to the future or career, I feel like that just invites me to also settle down into where are my thoughts going. And so I think what can be so debilitating about anxiety is that it feels like our thoughts just do not stop and they're going 100 miles per hour.

Yeah.

And you're like, someone get me out of my head, like, please. Like, how do I put a pause on this voice? And that can feel so overwhelming when you can't escape yourself. And so I think for me, something that's important is being able to express those things and voice those thoughts and those feelings that I'm navigating through and not judge myself through it. It could be just a thought. It could be just a feeling. It's not something that I have to commit to. I could say, hey, I want to quit my job. I don't have to do it. I just need to get these thoughts out.

Mm-hmm.

And so I think venting with a trusted friend or my partner has been huge for me and has helped me a lot of times navigate that anxiety much faster.

Yeah.

By just getting it out of my head and out of my body. And then the other thing is like being able to spend some time by myself meditating on those feelings of anxiety. Like, why is it there? Like, is there something that I need to change about my habits? Is there something I need to change or work through on my beliefs? Like if it's financial and then I feel like it's more of a trigger to my past self, I'm like, all right, I've got some work to do there. Like I need to bring this up in like therapy. Or if it's something that it's more career focused, then I can say, okay, this is causing me anxiety because I don't feel as much of an expert in flash photography. So I need to take a course.

Yep.

So that next time I feel more prepared. And so I think identifying perhaps the root of it, um, can help navigate some of that. And so that helps me at least have some more clarity and it not feel like just this big blob of weight in my mind that I can't sort through. And the times that I've felt that, that's when it's debilitating, when I feel like I can't do anything about the anxiety.

Yeah, I love that you brought up The thoughts and feelings, like we we can't control our thoughts. We can control what we believe about them. So a lot of times, like our thoughts and feelings can impact what we believe to be true, and we can take our feelings and make them facts when they're not factual. And so what can help me? is when I'm feeling incredibly anxious. And I'm thinking about, like, I can't control what's popping in my head. And I also can't necessarily control exactly how I feel. I will go back to what I believe to be true about myself. And then I will find some way to take action. A lot of times, my anxiety spikes when I'm in a place of inaction.

Hmm.

And so I'm avoiding something. And so I'm anxious about it because I haven't looked at it. I haven't prepped for it. I haven't touched it. I haven't talked to that person. Like I have like an anxious avoidant aspect of me that that's where I find the majority of my anxiety is. It's a, it's a root cause of avoidance. And so I then have to go, okay, I can say You're so avoidant. Like, you're just, you're someone that never gets things done. Like, you know, whatever the belief can come up. And that can be really damaging because then if I begin to believe that, then I don't take action. I'm like, well, that's just the way it is. That's just who I am. And that kind of like mental thought pattern can start to come into play. And so I think that's where If you are trying to figure out, okay, I struggle with anxiety, and I'm worrying a lot about a lot, write down on a piece of paper, like write a line down the piece of paper and put your thoughts and feelings in one and your beliefs and your actions in another. And recognize that you can only control what you choose to believe and what you choose to do. And I think that can give us like motivation, if you will, or at least clarity on what steps we might need to take so that we can kind of jump out of that anxious kind of spiral. Yeah.

Oh, I love that tip of being able to write things down and being able to classify like our thoughts and our feelings and, and separate those things, because I feel like so much of my anxiety a lot of times made me spiral even more because I thought that I needed to do something about the thoughts. I thought they were real. So for example, if I was getting ready for a wedding and I felt like I was not good enough as a photographer to shoot that wedding day, then I would end up really spiraling on that and being like, how do I overprepare? How do I overdo everything so that I can at least be somewhat close to what they're expecting because I genuinely believed that. And so there's been so many times where that will spiral, even in my relationship, to be honest. I had a very traumatizing relationship prior, and it's been such a healing process in my current relationship and some huge spikes of anxiety where I would feel triggered and felt like, okay, are they lying to me like I was lied to before? Are they doing this like I was doing that before?

Mm-hmm.

And step by step, it's been healing, but I believed those as true. I was like, I can't trust this other person. And so I need to defend myself rather than perhaps taking a step back and being like, could this just be a healing layer and just a feeling? And could I handle this with more gentleness and curiosity rather than accusing? Which I feel like is such a huge difference too.

Yeah.

And I think That advice right there that you gave would've saved me so much trouble in the beginning as well, of like, could this just be a feeling? Could this just be a thought and a byproduct of anxiety? Right? And so I think anxiety can teach us so much, and it's so uncomfortable to navigate through. And I think that's why it's also important to have people in your life that are like that are knowledgeable about what anxiety is, like a therapist, a coach, or just resources so that it helps us create language and it helps us basically make it from this like massive intimidating beast that we feel like we're alone in this to, okay, this is normal that this is happening to me after a traumatizing experience. This is normal this is happening to me as I'm growing in my career and I'm in more challenging situations.

Yeah.

Or I'm growing in my relationship. It's like Okay, that feels more doable. And like, I'm supposed to experience this. Now, how do I get through that?

I think too, and I'm glad that you found that helpful. I also don't want it to come off as if I'm invalidating our feelings, because our feelings can also be indicators, like our gut feelings, our intuition. Like, I definitely want us to honor that and still Give it space, like still give it mental space to think about. I just think that the jump that we can make from feeling to fact is where we have to hold ourselves accountable. Why am I feeling that way? What can I investigate? Can I ask questions? Can I use curiosity, like you said, to then dictate whether or not that feeling or thought is actually true, or if it's biased based on My past, my trauma, whatever experiences that we've had that can influence how we feel and how we think. But when it comes to preparation, I think this is huge. If you struggle with financial anxiety, can you literally look at your bank account every single day? If you struggle with relationship anxiety, can you— and maybe you have an anxious attachment and you're working on feeling more secure in your relationship. Mm-hmm. What are things that you can do with your partner, whether you're dating, engaged, married, whatever, to check in with them and say like, hey, I'm kind of feeling a little, little anxious, just kind of want to talk to you about XYZ. Like having those touchpoints where you can regularly express yourself in that relationship or check in. I think It's like a consistency thing. So if you're feeling anxious about something, how can you add a layer of consistency to kind of combat the anxiety so that you have visibility into it? So like I would, I used to have mailbox anxiety.

Yes.

And would avoid, I think I've talked about this on the podcast, but I would avoid opening mail because I didn't want to look at bills because I was worried about money. And so like the mailbox anxiety was a symptom from real like financial anxiety. And so now every other day, I don't need it daily, but I like every 2 to 3 days, I like to look at my bank account. I like to look at my credit card balance, which I pay off every single month. Like I don't carry any debt from that anymore like I used to, but I like to look at those things because it can also tell me, oh wow, My anxiety about this over here is negatively impacting my finances. And so maybe I'm not even anxious about finances, but because I'm anxious about something else, I'm spending, I'm like, that's like a coping thing. Then I'll see it and I'm like, oh wow, I need to investigate that. Like I've spent X amount of dollars. Oh, why? Because I was shopping. Why was I shopping? And kind of dig a little bit deeper into that. So I feel like there's these different checkpoints where we can kind of just audit, not anything serious. It doesn't have to be this like, I'm in trouble, I'm going to the principal's office. It's just holding yourself accountable, taking responsibility for these things that when you don't look at them and you take away the visibility, you can really eat yourself up.

Yeah.

with worrying because of that avoidance or because you're not quite sure where things are. And I think that goes for career. I think it goes for pretty much everything in life.

Yeah, absolutely. I love this so much because it's all about going back to what is the truth about your situations. And while what you said, our feelings are a very real part of our experience, and at times our feeling of anxiety towards something could be a gut reaction and a gut instinct of like, this is not good for me and this is not a good relationship, job, etc., then that truth of the situation can ground us again. And so I really am a big fan of writing things down and a big fan of like, okay, if I have relationship anxiety, which I have struggled with that, being able to write down like, why do I choose my partner? And write all those things. Because for me, when I've experienced that, I will zero in on the one thing that has me spiraling and the one thing that reminds me of a very traumatizing time. And when I've gone through those scenarios and then brought it up to my partner, and then it's like, whoa, you're not taking into account my whole self, right?

Mm-hmm.

Or I will just literally forget about everything else and just zero in on that. It's like, okay, that's important. And there's also this whole list of like why I choose them, why I want to be with them, why I think they're amazing. Same thing goes for like our careers and anything we might be choosing. It's like we can look back at the truth of that. And at any point, if we look back through that list and we're like, okay, those things are true. And what I'm struggling with about anxiety, I feel like I need to explore more because I feel like maybe that's driving me to a different direction. Great. I feel like that is now making a decision based off of soberness rather than just anxiety, or like, this feels scary and unfamiliar, or too familiar to something that hurt me before, so I'm gonna run away because I don't want to feel that pain again. And that's something that I've had to learn to shift through. I've had to learn to give myself some days in between, uh, the anxiety too, especially when it involves somebody else. And if it— when it comes to relationship anxiety, actually being able to talk about it with somebody outside of my partner has helped me sober up so many times where just the act of venting, I'm like, whoa, okay, I realized how that was actually just a trigger from my past experiences. And it is very, very small in like the grand scheme of things, and I was about to like break up with them, and that's not what I want right now. And so being able to shift through all those things, I think, is, is really important while still, um, staying grounded in our feelings, still paying attention to the fact that maybe there is some change that needs to happen. And if so, let's do that more sober-mindedly. Yeah.

Also, there will be aspects of interactions with our partner, with work, with life, that we don't know how the other party will respond. And so an aspect of anxiety is like, you know, you need to have this really important conversation. And so you're preparing mentally of like, okay, if they say this, then I'm going to say that. And if this happens, then I'm going to do this. And like, as much—

Yeah.

As important as that is, A lot of times we can walk into a situation where we are advocating for ourselves. We are saying our feelings were hurt. We are asking for what we need. We're setting a boundary, whatever the situation is. But there's a, there's a feelings and emotions may be heightened. We need to give that person space. to have their own reaction to us. And we need to not take away their ability to communicate and their ability to have their own experience in that interaction. Because a lot of times I've been anxious about conversations with, let's say, my parents, where I'm nervous to tell them something. And in my head, I'm like, oh, my mom's gonna say this, she's totally gonna respond like this. Mm-hmm. And I've worked myself into a mental tizzy where I'll avoid the conversation because I'm anxious about it. Then I'll finally tell her and she'll have the literal complete opposite reaction. And that's not fair, right? And so we have to give people the benefit of the doubt. I don't know if that's the right phrase in this situation. We have to give them space to React. We can't take away or predetermine what someone's gonna do or say. Um, I just don't think— I think that cannot allow for like authentic, raw relationships when we like narrow people in. Like, um, I don't want to bring that up to Matt because he's going to say this and then this is going to happen. And like, that's not fair. I can't make that assumption essentially because Then I'm furthering the narrative of avoiding a conversation, which is not the goal.

Yeah. This reminds me. So last month I was hanging out with Nicole and she shared something with me that her therapist told her, which was the idea of, can you soften the story? So a lot of times we will have these interactions with people or with our partners, with work, and we are anxious and navigating things. And her therapist encouraged her to soften the story. Like, what if they're not as mad or as— insert blank— as we think that they will be? And what if this is not as— like, whatever emotion it is that you're feeling, I don't want to invalidate it. But also, what if it is just a more gentle thing and we drive ourselves through these crazy emotions? And honestly, that has helped me so much this past month. And it's come up in my mind multiple times where I'm like, I've navigated some family things and some work relationship things. I'm like, all right, how can I soften the story? Like, what if they're just really busy? What if they're going through a depressing time? And so their emotions are a little bit heightened and that's why they're reacting to me. Like, how can I still advocate for myself, be honest and upfront and navigate that and reduce my everyday anxiety? And so I love that advice. And along with that, what are some things that you do and implement on a daily basis to navigate anxiety or try to reduce it overall?

Yeah. I wrote down something in preparation for this that I try to do daily, but definitely weekly to help this is planning versus living. And I tend to get A little bit of anxiety when there is something that needs to be planned and it hasn't. And I also can tend to overplan. And so then I've planned so much that I don't feel like I've necessarily lived in the moment or have like tried to be so productive where I was anxious about doing all the things and I did all the things and now I'm exhausted and I feel like I didn't get to have my weekend. Like those are real life examples of just things that, um, That happens to me. I feel that. So, I try to ask myself, like, what part of this day needs to be planned and prepared for? And what part of this day needs to feel free-flowing and lived in? And so, like, where can I be messy? Where can I be late? Where can I, like, take my time? And where do I need to be on and in it and prepped and focused. And I think that that has allowed me to perform differently. Um, and this is probably going to sound arrogant, but I have a lot of people that will ask me from time to time, how do you do all the things? Like, how do you do it like this and that and this and that? And I'm like, I just focus on what I'm doing at that time. I'm present. In that time. And I don't really try to think about all the other things that I'm doing. And I'm sure, I mean, you do so much. And it's like, yeah, I mean, one, I love doing all these things. Um, there's nothing that I'm doing right now that I want to take off my plate. And so if I know that, then it's up to me to decide my mindset of how I want to manage my day. And I think that—

Mm-hmm.

It's important for me to have like an hour at the end of every day to do whatever I want with, whether I'm on social media, I'm watching a movie, I'm reading. I need like unadulterated just time.

Unadulterated?

I don't want any limits. I just want to feel a sense of freedom and I get anxiety when I feel contained. And so I have to like Okay, these are the areas where we need to lean into that, and these are the areas where we need to give ourselves room to be free. And so I don't know if that answers your question, but that's how I try to navigate those feelings of anxiousness on a weekly and daily basis. What about you?

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I love that. I feel like that very much relates to even the Sunday scaries, where you're like, oh my gosh, the anxiety popped up. And why, why do we call it the Sunday scaries? Because maybe we didn't maximize the weekend like we wanted to, or we didn't rest as much. And then also we feel unprepared for the week. And so that's something that honestly I navigate often every weekend where I'm like, not the Sunday scaries, but I'll have like a sliver of time where I'm like, okay, am I maximizing this weekend? Am I doing what I want to do? Or like, if things are taking a little too long, then I'm like, Oh no, I don't want this. I want to finish doing the responsible adult things fast so that then I can just do whatever it is that I want to do afterwards. And if people around me don't do it fast enough with me, then I get like, I just want them to hurry up so we can get to the weekend.

I know.

So yeah, similar to you, I feel like I always have to ask myself, even on a daily basis, Okay, I am feeling overwhelmed. I'm feeling anxious. What are the top things that I need to do that will help me with this?

Yeah.

So, for example, yesterday was a really, really crazy day. I had a 12-hour day. I was feeling that, and I was like, okay, would it make me feel better to pull a later day for work and get the thing done, and then tomorrow I can rest? Or will it make me feel better to just mentally clock out now and then hit it hit the ground running tomorrow. And it really just depends on the project. Sometimes I won't sleep very well unless I get it done. So it's just better to crank it out. And then other times it's like, okay, I am dead. I need to sleep. I need to rest. And then tomorrow I will show up with my best self. I will not let myself wander into all the things I need to do, but I know I will have the energy that I need. And so I feel like dealing with anxiety, it's a lot about It's like, how can we have a healthy relationship with our anxiety? If I know that sounds very contradictory, but I think it's about listening to ourselves. I think it's about tuning into our needs and tuning in into what's important and what's healthy for us or what we need to remove that's not healthy. And so, um, one of the main things for me too is like, if my house is messy, I will feel a whole other layer of anxiety on top of it.

Totally.

And I have felt it like once my house gets clean, I feel a whole degree less stressed out and anxious about work and about everything else because everything in my home feels peaceful. And so whenever everything else feels out of my control, I also like to focus on like what is within my control that maybe my anxiety is at an 80%. How can we bring it to like a 50%?

Mm-hmm.

Because maybe there's just a lot of things going on, but how can we knock it down a few notches? And a lot of times it's clean home, working out, healthy food, venting, solid sleep, taking my magnesium, going to bed at a good time. All these little habits that actually add up to a lot and can help us reduce the level of anxiety that we have.

Definitely. I also think that I am less anxious and less depressed when I am taking action. So when I am stationary, I really sink. And it's like, if I just keep moving, even if it's an inch at a time, I'm, I'm still making some sort of progress. But when I stop, I really just— like last week, I just was like stationary. And I just felt myself sink into the Earth's core. And I was like, I was anxious. I was feeling really depressed. I was just like in a cycle. And something I've really been trying to crack the code on for myself is you need to be taking action. You need to get out of the house and work at a coffee shop. You need to make the plan. You need to take the action because I find myself really avoidant again of when I'm avoiding action, I start to feel more anxious. I also think communicating your anxiety You know, if we're going on a trip and I'm like, hey, I, I actually had this conversation with a friend. Kate was like, hey, I'm cool to take public transit during the day. But taking public transit at night makes me anxious and I would prefer to Uber. It's like little things like that where if I can have the conversation beforehand, it really helps. Hey, I'm excited to go on this trip. I'm feeling a little anxious about money. So you might see that pop up. But it, I don't want to project that onto you. That has nothing to do with you. That's totally me, but I just want to let you know. So like, can we pick a few places that are a little bit more casual? And like, those are things that when you communicate them, people get to join you in, in that support and that encouragement instead of you feeling like it's something that you have to navigate on your own. So if Matthew is feeling anxious about finances, I'm like, let's get the apps open. Let's look at it right now. Let's get clarity. Like, why are you feeling anxious? And that, like, joining in, in that with him. So I think there are things that we can ask for support, verbalize. It doesn't have to be a big deal either. Like, I think our— while our anxiety is big to us, how we communicate it can make it feel very normal. And like, someone's like, yeah, I'm in it with you. Or someone can be like, oh, I don't want to I don't want to add to that. And so I'm just going to like, I'm going to not take a pause, but like, you don't want to add to someone's anxiety. So you almost feel like, you just let me know and I'll be over here, if that makes sense. And so I think if you ask people for help, people will help you. But if you're like, I'm feeling super anxious about this, I just can't. Someone's going to be like, okay. Okay.

Yeah.

They'll take a step back. And so I think depending on where you are, and how you communicate about your anxiety, people can lean in, or people will be like, I'm going to give them their space because I don't want to, like, I don't want to add anything to them in a negative way.

Yeah.

So I think that's another thing that when you're wanting support, verbalizing it and asking for it and being really clear on what it is that you need can help people know how to help you.

I love that so much. I think sometimes we linger in the anxiety because we're too afraid of what somebody else's reaction might be. And if we just ask for that clarity, we just ask for where they're at and how we can meet those expectations or how we can achieve a goal or how we can meet each other in the middle, then hey, we're moving forward in that conversation. Anxiety can be worked through. And so I think like taking action is a big, um, aspect of it. So I've really, really loved this conversation, especially as I've navigated anxiety myself this week. I feel like having a refresher on how we navigate it, hearing how you navigate it, and honestly just refocusing on those things that help us to get through it, um, is huge because Truly, if you're working on any kind of growth in your life and experiencing relationships with people, you're going to have this anxiety. But yeah, I have so enjoyed this conversation.

Me too, my friend. I love you, and I'm glad that we get to have these discussions. Thank you to the beautiful individual that suggested this topic. And yeah, we appreciate you. If there's ever any more things you would like Astra and I to go deep in, just message us on Instagram. You can do that @inbetween.pod, and you can always connect with me personally @alexistechmiller on Instagram.

And you can connect with me @astrayohannaphoto. We love you all so, so much, and we'll catch you next time.