Moving Forward After Heartbreaks and Breakups

Welcome to the In Between Podcast.

I'm Astrid and I'm Alexis, and we're two best friends on a journey to living a fun, intentional life.

We know it's easier to share on a season of life once it's behind you, but what about when you're in the middle of the growth, confusion, and decision-making?

This lifestyle podcast is for the everyday gal who loves to travel, talk about business, relationships, fashion, and everything in between. Hello friends and welcome Welcome back to The In-Between Podcast. It is one half of the pod, Alexis.

And the other half, Astrid.

And we're going to talk about heartbreak and coming and rising from the ashes after experiencing heartbreak, trauma, failed relationships, relationships that didn't go the way that you wanted them to, didn't maybe meet your expectations, just all of the Emotions that can surround like the ending of a hard relationship and how do you open yourself up for what's next?

Yeah, maybe you're feeling a little stirred up from Valentine's Day week and it's kind of that moment where everyone's posting pictures with their partner, or maybe it just reminds you of when you had a partner. And so we thought it'd be good to just tackle the topic on how to move past heartbreak, how to find yourself again. And I feel like one of the hardest parts about this topic is a partnership is so intertwined into who we are, our daily habits, our weekly habits, that person that we go to with good news and bad news. And what happens once they're gone is one aspect to those routines. And then the other one of like— They broke my heart. And now, you know, trusting all over again. So we're going to tackle a few of those topics today. It is the last topic of our love month and relationships, as well as like relationship with yourself, relationship with others. And then next week, we're going to be doing a Q&A. So if you missed it on our socials, feel free to message us. But we're just opening up Any questions that you have, whether it's about your relationship with self, with others, or absolutely anything really. So very laid back. And then, um, at the end of the episode, we'll give you a little sneak peek into what we're going to be chatting on next month.

Yes, I'm excited about next month's, um, content lineup, and I'm also looking forward to answering y'all's questions. I think it's a cool way for us to just like be more collaborative and in community with you, our listeners. We do this for you and for us and what we're building together. So I am really excited about that. All right. Really quick life update before we get into even Inbetweens. You're in Dallas right now. We got to update our listeners. How is it going? Our people.

Okay. I am freaking loving Dallas. It is definitely exceeding any expectation that I had. I feel so safe here. I mean, I grew up in Miami. I have lived near Chicago, all these different areas. And I feel like Dallas is that perfect in-between of you, pun intended, of you get city life, but it's not as crazy as a Miami or a Chicago. So—

Right.

I'm loving it. I love having so many people my age around. The weather is nicer. I had the opportunity to book a really cute Airbnb. That just feels very artistic, and I feel like it's been bringing out the best out of me. And yeah, I guess I was feeling really stuck last month and for the past 2 months too. And just shifting my environment and coming here was just the perfect time to just snap out of it and get back in the flow of like, okay, why am I doing what I'm doing? What's the big picture? How am I enjoying the everyday? small moments, um, and not just producing. So yeah, it's been lovely, and I was so, so grateful that you could come and spend a few days with me this past weekend.

It was so good to have girl time and just like be together. We don't live near each other anymore, so I always like cherish that girl time and like finding all of the fun restaurants and wearing all the cute clothes and taking all the fun Photos. I don't downplay that. I do not take that for granted.

It's the best. It's like the adult dress-up. You know when you're a kid and you play with your friends and you just dress up? That is it for us.

It definitely has that playful dress-up energy. And isn't it crazy how much shifting your environment can impact your creativity, your flow, your identity of what you think is possible, who you think you are, reconnecting with your why? So it's really cool to see you experience what a shift in environment can kind of unlock for you as you're in this, coming up on your 1-year full-time entrepreneur, what that shifting of environment can do for that.

Yeah. It's crazy that it's going to be a year. But along those lines, if you're feeling stuck and you're listening to this and perhaps moving or going somewhere is not in the cards right now, maybe Thinking about how can you shift your environment during the week, like going to a new coffee shop, going to a new place, even just working from a different spot in your house, going to a new restaurant, exploring a new city around you that's maybe just a short drive away can really help just cut the routine and the mundane and get you back into the flow of things.

Yeah, it almost can kind of kick you out of autopilot. It'll kind of kick you out of that that mundane monotony that we can sometimes get into with our routines. So I love that idea. I'm so glad it's going well and that you're loving it. And it's, um, it's been like a really good experience for you. And most of all, that you feel safe.

Yes, we love that.

We're big safety gals.

We love safety.

Um, okay, what are you in between right now? Or I can go first too, since you just talked about Dallas. Whatever you want.

Yeah, go for it. Go for it.

I am in between a love-hate relationship with, and you're going to freak out, travel.

Okay.

I love travel. If you know me or we're connected online, I'm always traveling or I'm always seeking travel and I'm always planning the next trip, excited about the next trip. And I 2 weekends ago I was in San Antonio. This past weekend I was in Dallas. This next weekend I fly out and I'm gone for 7 days in Mexico. I get back from that trip, I'm home for 3 days, and then I go to LA for a book writing event. And like, it's all amazing things. But I have not accessed this level of travel since, gosh, I want to say like 2018, 2019 Alexis.

Mm-hmm.

Like since before I got married, I have not been like this on the go. And, it's been really cool to challenge my routines because I'm still running and I'm still prioritizing movement regardless of travel. So, that has been really lovely to see that resilience and not letting my circumstances or travel impact my habits. So, that's been a huge win. And, at the same time, I am learning how sometimes I can be rather introverted and I need time at home. Even Matthew and I, we were in San Antonio last weekend. When we got home, I was like, I just need some space. I just need time by myself to read or just literally an hour can bring my mood up.

Mm-hmm.

So I'm thinking like, okay, a lot of these trips have been very social. And so I'm in between navigating the excitement around travel, new experiences, building connections with people, relationship building, love that. And also still prioritizing this This new layer of introverted energy conservation, protecting my peace, just kind of wanting to reconnect with that while traveling. So I have never been like that before. And so I'm kind of in between how to learn how to ask for that. It's easier for me to ask for that in my home environment.

Right.

Or like, oh, I'm home with family. I'm going to go work by myself at a coffee shop for a couple hours just to be alone. But then, whenever you're in the midst of traveling, it can be harder or you don't even sometimes know that you need it until after you've been a little short or you're like, oh, I'm feeling really frustrated. And, why? For what? It's like, oh, I haven't just had a moment, or whatever that is. So, heading into 7 days of a work retreat with all my work colleagues, I'm like, okay, I need to still prioritize that time. So I'm in between navigating that, not making it a big deal, but just being able to adjust accordingly.

Does that make sense? Yeah, for sure. For sure. I feel like a lot of times once you start building those habits that really support you and really support your wellbeing, your emotional wellbeing, once you travel so much, it almost just feels like like it's throwing you off.

Yeah.

And that can, that can be a little like irritating. And I, I feel that like whenever that week of coming down to Dallas, I was feeling that so much because it's like my house is packed up, so I'm not really home. So then now we're stopping at all these different hotels, and then now I'm here, but then now we're exploring. It's just like this like transitional point. And when you have transitions for multiple weekends and multiple days and nothing feels like Ah, okay, I'm home.

I'm just walking.

I just am. It can feel very exhausting and very draining too. So I'm glad that you're noticing that, and it's going to be a fun experience. I'm glad that you're noticing that now so that as you walk into that, you can schedule some time by yourself. Like, okay, I'm going to go on a walk by myself or whatever that may be.

Me too.

But yeah, it's definitely— it comes with the travel. It is exhausting. It is.

It is. Yeah. I am excited. And I already started pulling outfits for Mexico. And I was like, some of them I was like, I don't think I can wear this. I feel like a lot of my summery outfits are like, they're very feminine and very skin. And I love that. But I'm like, do I want to wear this to a work retreat?

Right.

I don't know. But I also, really quick, I'm doing really good on my no spend. And I have not broken down and purchased any clothes, skincare, or accessories. Like we have been on the budget and I'm very like happy about how that has been going. So yeah, that's where I'm at. What are you in between right now?

I love it. I thank you for the update on the no spend. I feel like those are motivational to everyone around you too. It's made me even more conscious just to like see your daily posts. I'm like, okay, yeah, yeah, we're good.

Where are we? Yeah, literally last night I like touched base with Matthew. I was like, hey, Just wanted to touch base, like where are we at on our percentages? Like specifically with groceries, we hosted a Super Bowl party and like obviously so happy to do that, but it's like, okay, where are we? What do we need to adjust? Can we dip into our reserves in our pantry? Like what do we need to do to like hit our financial goals this month? But yeah, just like doing those check-ins really help.

Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. My in-between, I would say I am, in between recreating what I want my everyday environment to look like. And so I started 75 Hard a week ago, and I've been finishing this book called Atomic Habits. And a big portion of what I've read this past week is how much our environment really affects us. And I've already alluded to that earlier in the podcast too. And it's crazy divine timing too of That's exactly what I was experiencing this past week, shifting over to Dallas too. And just being surrounded by you, being surrounded by Nicole, just having these friendships that are really life-giving, people who are focused in becoming the best version of themselves, has made me really aware of the importance that we have in stewarding who has access to our environment. The importance that we have in stewarding what we choose as our environment in everything, because we really draw so much energy out of it. And we went to the John Reed Fitness Center, which was unreal. If you haven't been and you're in Dallas or visit, you have to go.

Dallas or LA.

Yeah. It's just incredible. But it's spaces like that that I feel like I step into it and it unlocks my best version, right? And there's other places where I feel like I am just comfortable. I'm just sitting there. I'm just in my most lazy version, not restful, but truly lazy.

Mm-hmm.

And so I guess that's what I'm learning in this trip, what I'm taking back with me to my home, and what decisions I want to make moving forward too, is just being really mindful of the coffee shops I visit, the music I listen to, How my home is decorated, like the people that I surround myself with, all these different layers that ultimately it impacts who we are.

Right. And it plays a huge role in like what we think is possible too.

Yes.

If your environment, you know, there's a lot of negativity or a lot of short-mindedness or like closed-mindedness, it can be hard to see, okay, what's beyond this day for me? What's beyond this year for me? It's hard to like attach a future, but when you're around people that are really positive and they're really growth-minded and like they have this kind of anything is possible and they just have like a different kind of mindset and view on life, it really does also open up for you like, okay, this environment has good energy and now, okay, what does my future look like? Like it's just, it's crazy how much like the people that we spend time with And where we physically are does really play a role. Do I think that we can overcome it? Absolutely.

Right.

But it is, it can be an obstacle.

I feel like it's almost like you're able to go with the flow of water when you have people around you that are on that same mindset rather than pushing against it.

Right.

And so even for me, like I was having all these mindset things this past month. And then as soon as I got here to Dallas and I changed my environment, was around certain people, it's like I snapped out of it. And my people were like, what the heck, Astrid? You totally can. You're totally capable of this. I was like, yeah, I can. It's like, they made me feel empowered. So do you have that kind of person in your life that can make you feel, that can remind you of who you were created to be, that can remind you that all these lies you have in your head about yourself— Are just that. They're just lies. And so I feel so grateful to have access to a community like that. And I realize like having and tapping more into that is essential to my future, really.

Right. Literally, like, and I'm not saying this like just because, after like less than 24 hours of spending time with you, I realized like how insecure I was feeling about a lot of the things I was doing in my life and like business. And we had this conversation where I was like, I'm feeling so insecure. And I think being around you and like your energy kind of woke me up to that where I was like, oh, I'm playing really small right now. Like I'm kind of leaning into those old thought patterns that don't serve me. And within 24 hours I was like, okay, I'm going to go back to Houston and we're going to like, we're going to keep going and we're going to keep leaning in and we're not going to feed into that insecurity. And that's just like being in proximity with you. Like, there was nothing that you even said. I was like, okay, I'm realizing after spending a day with you that I've been feeling really insecure about myself. So yeah.

And vice versa. Like, we had this moment where I was like, dude, me too. Like, this is where I've been this past month. And you're like, really? You? I was like, yes, this is where I've been. So I feel like even those things, like, life is— and we're talking about heartbreak today— life is so hard and can bring so many challenges. Are you creating this environment that can sustain and push you through these hard seasons? Do you have the people around you that are going to build you up and not just, okay, I'm sorry, I'm here for you, give you a hug? And that's great and all, but sometimes you need tough love. Sometimes you need a shoulder to cry on. Sometimes you need someone to push you into therapy. All this, like, a healthy group is so essential to who— we become. And even in partnerships, like, okay, who is your partner surrounded by? Because that's who they're going to go to whenever they go through hard seasons too. And you're not the end-all be-all.

Right.

And so, yeah. So I guess I'm just starting to navigate that mindfulness to a whole new degree of like, what is my environment like? And what do I want my life to be like? So I'm excited. I'm nervous for the decisions I'll have to make, but I'm really excited for, for those decisions too.

Me too. Me too. Well, it's a great transition into heartbreak decisions.

Yes.

Um, so much of heartbreak can be tied to our choices and the choices of other people, and then how we navigate that heartbreak comes down to our decisions as well. Like, how do we want To move forward? How do we want it to affect us? How do we want to heal from it? So where would you like to begin?

Well, how about we share a little bit more background on what heartbreak we've navigated, really high level, and then we can jump into what were some tools that we used that helped us to navigate those hard seasons.

Okay, let's do it. Do you want to go first? Yeah, I can.

Okay, so from my perspective, or from my experience, I went through a really horrible heartbreak in— I want to say it started in 2019, and the heartbreak just kind of progressed all the way into 2020. And many of our listeners might not know, but I was previously married. And so I went through a separation in August of 2019. And it was one of those where from one day to another, I found out a bunch of stuff. And I feel like in the context of heartbreak, that can be extremely hard to navigate in the healing journey because there's a lot of trust issues within yourself because you're like, how did I not see this coming? And so that happened in 2019 and then fully divorced in 2020. And so the healing journey was Extensive, was painful, was hard, to say the least. And I didn't really feel like I was fully okay until this past year. And so I feel like a big misconception about heartbreak or healing from a breakup is that 6 months after, you're fine, right? And I think, of course, how long the relationship was and all of those come into play. But I think also normalizing that it may take you years because the deeper you loved, the longer you might have to heal. The layers are there, the roots are there. And so I've always visualized my healing journey as like there was this tree with roots and then like things were being pulled up with the certain scenarios that kept happening within that relationship. And then after the divorce, it was my job to go ahead and clean everything back up, pull it from the root.

Mm-hmm.

And each time it's painful, it's hard. Then there's a hole, and then you got to fill it. Then you got to replant and rebuild and water that new plant. And so, yeah, so I'm really excited for this conversation because I know that when I was going through that deep heartbreak, all the content I was looking for online was for that. Like, I will take anything to help me. not feel this deep pain? Like, someone give me a tool for this. And while you will still need to feel it to heal it, perhaps you don't have to feel it for so long with certain tools. And perhaps you can find yourself along that path, um, like I did. I, I had access to certain resources that really helped me.

That's such a beautiful analogy of the tree and the roots, and I'm really proud of you for sharing your story. And like opening up this space on the pod to talk about it. For for me, heartbreak has looked. I've had heartbreak because relationships had to end because they were dangerous and scary, and I've had heartbreak because people I dated felt like. a comforting best friend. And, I knew that there was not a romantic intimate future for us. And so, I had to end the relationship, therefore end that friendship. And, in a way, that was also heartbreaking because of detaching from someone who had been in my life for years. And, it meant really that separation of just like we're not really going to be able to be friends anymore.

Right.

Because of Of the situation, of the relationship. So whenever I was younger, I was in an abusive relationship that was, you know, really emotionally abusive for the majority of the relationship. And then it got physical once, and then it ended. I ended it. And it was just the way that it ended was very scary. And there were a lot of threats made, and it was tied to a lot of My previous trauma, so there was a lot of fear around you know what this person would share about me. It was just it was a lot of layers to that heartbreak where I didn't know how I could have missed that this was who he really was, and that I had trusted someone with intimate parts of my life and my story and my trauma. that then would be used against me in some way. I just could not fathom that kind of like betrayal at that stage in my, in my life. Um, so then coming out of that, you know, dating again and trying to be in relationships, I find— I found myself like just kind of blanketing thinking that I couldn't trust anyone.

Mm-hmm.

Like, it kind of just shatters any sense of, one, can I trust myself to make these decisions? Um, with that kind of like, you know, being in those kinds of tumultuous relationships, you know, what does this say about my, my like decision-maker filter? And then, um, you know, I never wanted anyone to have that power again to ever hurt me in that way. And so then it was like, well, I'll be in relationships, but like, I won't really be all in because I don't want to give you access to that kind of power over my feelings. So, um, that, that's a bit of my background on heartbreak and relationships to this point.

I'm so sorry you had to navigate that. It's, it's crazy how common abusive relationships are. Yeah. Um, in both men and women that we all, or a majority of us, experience those, whether it is physically abusive, emotionally, financially, spiritually too.

Yeah.

Um, it's a common thread. And whenever you were sharing of like the being able to trust again, the not wanting to give somebody the power to hurt you like that again, all of that, I'm sure listeners that resonate with heartbreak as well as myself, I was like, yes, 100%. Like, I went through that of how could I not see this for so long?

Yeah.

And hence, do I even trust my own judgment? Because how could I not see that for so long, you know?

Right.

And so being able to, I think, move forward in, in that direction can be really hard because then you start second-guessing everyone and then second-guessing yourself. So I went through a season too where it was like, well, are the people I work with lying to me too? Is the person that I'm managing actually putting in their time? Are they lying? What else is everyone lying about? Clearly I'm oblivious to everything around me.

Yeah.

So then I became skeptical of everyone and had this hyper-independence response to trauma. Of, I don't want anyone to jump in because I can't trust you. And so I think whenever we navigate things like that, being able to reflect on the specific situation, at least this is what helped me, of that person made specific decisions that broke trust. And they made specific, like, decisions to make sure that I didn't realize that was happening.

Mm-hmm.

the betrayal. So it's not that I couldn't see, like, they actually wanted to hide that, right? And many of us experience, if someone has experienced cheating or if someone has experienced lying or anything, being able to know that, like, you have you and you are smart and you are capable and you are able to trust yourself. And sometimes people will deceive you and that's on them. That's not on you. And so being able to reconcile both, as well as what did I miss in that journey, what could I have done better? Also, like, for me, I looked back and realized, okay, I over-romanticized things. Those small flags, like, actually were big ones that I needed to watch for. But at the same time, I did the best that I could with the information that I had at that time.

Right.

that person did their best effort to hide a lot of things, and that's not on me. Like, I could have done thorough research and I still probably wouldn't have found that, you know? So, um, it's like this back and forth of learning how you can do better in the next time and giving yourself grace to know that another person's actions aren't your responsibility, though they will impact you and your future decisions as well.

Yeah, I completely agree. And like being able to separate yourself from someone else's choices in that they don't become a part of your identity. And so, you know, also being cheated on, oh, well, that's just like, that's just what happens to me. Or being really into relationships, but it's not fully reciprocated. Oh, well, that's just what happens to me. Like I'm always all in and they're always lukewarm. Like, we can generalize these things that happen in relationships and we can make them about ourselves and what— like, what does this mean about me? And I think that's a part of heartbreak that I tried to separate, was like, this did happen to me, but this isn't who I am.

Mm-hmm.

Right? Like, I get to choose how I want to move forward. I get to choose how this impacts, you know, my dating, or, you know, if I fall in love again, like, just that separation. So if you are navigating that as well, like, how can you kind of take a step back and give yourself some perspective that even though what happened was real, those feelings were real, and like moving forward, you don't have to necessarily claim Everything as like, this is now who I am. This is a part of me forever.

I do think, to the point that you're sharing, taking some time to see what are those stories that we tell ourselves. So I'm not worthy to be fought for, I'm not worthy to be loved, I'm not— whatever it is that you have perhaps taken from this relationship, just ignoring it, it's gonna live in the background and it's gonna show up the next time that you decide to be in a relationship.

Yeah.

And so taking the time to be like, okay, these are the things that I have taken as my identity, and now I choose to release that. That is not a part of me. And actually, that was a big part of what I did all of last year. So I learned something called priming from one of my coaches, Nicole. And part of that is grabbing these stories that we tell ourselves and speaking the truth over them every single morning. And so you just repeat it, repeat it. I am worthy of being, you know, loved. I do believe that I'll find love again. Like all these different things. And so I think that that is a huge part of the healing process, acknowledging how it impacted you and rewiring the story that you're telling yourself. Because it would become a self-fulfilling prophecy if we don't realize that it's in the background of Our lives always running bare.

Yeah. I also want to make a comment of like the choices that we made. You know, I know our situations were different. But when you also make a choice to leave a relationship that's no longer healthy, you know, that's no longer being honored or respected by the other person, that's no longer safe, you know, whatever the reason is that you might choose to walk away. If that's you right now, like, I also just want to speak a sense of like love and care and softness because it is really difficult to leave those situations where you love the person, you care about them, you believe in them, you see a future with them, you had this potential life mapped out with them, and then, you know, the reality is not matching up. And it's like you still believe that it could be possible though, so you hold on to this this ideology of like the potential of the person. And if that's you, like I really empathize with that because that can be really difficult to make that decision and to step away. And like, could you be— how do I want to say this? There is— I'm trying to figure out the right words. Like, not settling is not the right words, but like choosing short-term comfort with this person because it feels comfortable. The long-term happiness and joy and fulfillment that you can feel in a different relationship is also out there for you. Does that make sense?

Definitely. Definitely. I feel like even thinking back to me in 2020 when I had to make that hard decision. If you would have asked me back then, I'm like, I will never, ever, ever in a million years be in a romantic relationship again. I will be the fun aunt. I will travel the world. And that's all I really want is my peace. I just want to not feel scared. I don't want to feel frantic.

I don't want to know—

I just want my peace back. I just want to be able to live a normal life and feel creative again. And so I feel like that's the survival mode in us that can also, on the flip side, keep you in a toxic relationship where you're just like, because it feels familiar, because it feels comfortable, not being able to detach that comfort from actions. Like, what are they saying? What are they doing? And what's the repeated behavior? And if that is not improving over time, Then is that the life that you want down the road? And so 5, 10 years down the road, you're still being disrespected, you're still being lied to, you're still being whatever that might be. And so to your point, it's being able to decide, I deserve respect, I deserve truth, I deserve a partner that's going to fight for me, that's going to be there for my kids if you choose to have kids, etc.

Right.

And I think the hard part about heartbreak, especially if it's been in a long-term relationship, is you always want to hope and think that it's just a low for that person. And you want to hope and think like they're just going through a really rough season and it's just around the corner. They're just— they're gonna get better. They're saying they're gonna like work on themselves. It's okay. And so you keep hoping. And I think that there is definitely room and space Of course. But whenever it's already been a lot of time, a lot of repeated behavior that doesn't seem to trend up, but it's trending down, then that's really where you need to decide, what is my life going to look like with this relationship? And I think something that a lot of people share is one of the most important decisions you'll make in your life is who you choose as your life partner and as someone who felt like she was at the absolute lowest for a whole year. Like, I couldn't function, I couldn't work, I couldn't live. I could— and thankfully for me, that happened during quarantine, so a lot of the world was shut down, so I was able to cope. But not a lot of people get that, you know. You have to like push through and go to work and do all these things, right?

Right. Raise kids.

Raise kids. Like, it's very, very, very difficult to go through that. And now, 3 years later, almost 4 since the separation, it's like, wow, it was definitely the best decision I could have made, even though it was the deepest heartbreak I've ever experienced. And just because I got myself back, you know, and that's Part of the journey of the post-heartbreak is realizing and deciding what it is that you want in a partner and realizing that there really is no perfect partner out there. You have to just choose and be open to finding a partner that's willing to work on things with you. And yeah, so I think just being able to focus on that can be very, very beneficial.

Yeah, especially on like the decisions. And, and are you also willing to work on yourself as well? Like, we know when relationships go wrong, if you were broken up with or you broke up with them, like there is also an element here that we haven't really touched on. Um, and I think in both of our situations, like, I do not think that we were in the wrong by any means. So I just want to say that. But in previous relationships that I'd been in that were not abusive, like, I also had to take ownership of myself and things that I did in those relationships that, you know, resulted in it not working out. And even in like the abusive relationship, I still chose to let him control a lot of my life. And even though that was hard, like, there were still choices there. Right? And I'm not shaming past me, but it's like, okay, what level of ownership and responsibility can we also recognize in those situations that we might want to explore? Where'd that tendency come from? Where was that modeled to me? Where did I see that modeled to me in the home or in, you know, my family's relationships that where I said that's okay? Or, you know, maybe that's not the case, but— Kind of going a little bit deeper and kind of investigating some of those things that we can also take some ownership for when things don't go right. So that when we do want to step back out and explore, you know, loving possibilities and dating again, like we can come to that with a really healthy lens of who we are as well. And like things that we're working on and trying to grow into.

Definitely, definitely. Looking back, right after you left your abusive relationship, like, what would you say were the top things that really helped you to navigate that?

I, I told like my family immediately. I told my friends immediately for a lot of reasons, um, like safety reasons being in college. But I think letting people know what was happening Like telling people what happened to me made me feel like I had this like support system around me, this army around me, that I was not alone. And that also by sharing that story and by inviting them into the healing process with me, I also felt like I had a level of accountability too of like, okay, now that you're in this with me, like I— yeah, just like keeping me honest. So, that was a tool, like just trusted people, inviting them into the support. I also went back to therapy for 6 months post that relationship. That was really helpful. I think we saw each other about twice a month for 6 months. And, that was really helpful for me to unpack that and a lot of the physical trauma and triggers and being in certain environments and certain situations that would really bring up that scenario. Of the day that things ended, like just helping me walk through that, helping me unpack that and process that. And then, you know, in a strange way, and I'm not telling— this is not advice I would give anybody, but I actually went back and talked to a lot of my exes after that happened. There were like 3 or 4 conversations I had with different ex-boyfriends after that happened. Not even about that, but just like in a way getting some kind of like comfort and closure with them after that happened was like a process that I felt like I needed to explore. And it really helped me like just have that like, you know, I literally remember asking like, is there anything that I did that ever made you feel like you couldn't be yourself? That ever made you feel like, you know, I didn't accept you for who you were. Like, it was kind of me seeking out some of that accountability from old relationships. Um, and it did help actually, because then my next relationship is my now husband Matthew. And I feel like I walked into that relationship with a very, very clear picture of who I was, what I was healing from, and like my tendencies so that I could actually own my own shit. So that was something that— those are tools that helped me.

Yeah, thank you for sharing. I think like having that reflection, having that support system is huge. And especially like if you have navigated an abusive relationship in any way, shape, or form, I think a part of experiencing abuse too is that we tell ourselves so many different stories. And so people around us can really help to validate like Hey, yeah, actually, it was really bad. It was so bad. I can tend to minimize and be like, oh, yeah, this is what happened to me. And then the people who walk with me through all of that, they're like, dude, it was terrible. That is unacceptable. How in the heck? Actually, I remember a drive that you and I had on our first trip to Colorado, and I just nonchalantly shared a little bit of my story. And I remember your reaction of being so pissed off and being like, that is not okay, was so healing and validating to me of like, oh, okay, I'm not crazy. I'm not overreacting. Because in a sense, that's what I was being told in the past. And so I think having that support system, if you have experienced abuse or if you have experienced someone who's lied to you about what's going on, And you feel like you don't really have your feet in the ground because you don't know where the ground is, then having the people around you that can be like, here's where the ground's at. We're going to help you walk forward. We're going to walk through this together.

We're not going to gaslight you.

Yeah, exactly.

I mean, there were moments where after a lot of that happened, it took me a long— it took me years to really release a lot of that. I would still not— I would in my head not even think it was real. And I, very similar to our, like, our conversation in Colorado, when I started with a new therapist like 2 years ago, I was giving her a lot of like trauma context where I was like, here's like everything that's happened to me. And I told her that story and she looked at me and she's like, I'm so sorry that you, that you had to experience that. That literally sounds like something from a movie.

Mm-hmm.

Like it doesn't even, it seems like something from like a script. That someone wrote. Like, that doesn't even— like, that— she didn't say, like, doesn't seem real, but she was just like, that is like, I can't believe that you walked through that and, like, you're sitting here and you're just telling me that like it's, you know, you're telling me what you had for lunch.

Yeah. Well, we dissociate. I mean, it's just like, yeah, this is what happened.

Yeah, it is very validating. What about for you, like, tools, you know, post-divorce, even making the decision, like, How— what tools did you use that helped you navigate like that healing process?

Yeah, um, for the context of the situation, I'll focus on like what helped me post-divorce. I feel like diving into pre is like a whole podcast on its own. Yeah. Um, but for me, I kind of alluded to it already, is really sharing and really having people that walked with me through this whole journey of like a year-long decision-making process that whenever my mind chooses to block all this stuff up, because that is my tendency to trauma and to the things that happened to me, they were able to remind me of like, this is what you walk through, this is very real. And having like that validating experience.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and honestly just owning my story. I feel like sometimes If you've experienced a traumatic relationship, it can feel very—you can feel like embarrassed about it. You can feel embarrassed that you didn't see it—the things, the things that happened, the things that they did, the things that you did. And so I think just coming to peace with what happened, and part of that for me was being able to realize, okay, a I did everything that I could. Looking back, there's nothing else I could have done, and I feel proud. proud of who I was during that season. So now I'm going to give myself the gift of moving forward. And so part of that healing process was there's no reason I need to be ashamed when saying I am divorced, or I just experienced a divorce, or whenever anybody would ask about them, just be like, unfortunately, we're no longer together, and move on. And I don't need to give them context. I don't need to explain what happened. So I think if you don't come to peace with it yourself first, you're going to tend to overexplain. You're going to tend to trauma dump. You're going to— and perhaps that's just not what you would've preferred to do. And I think being really respectful of that part of your story and how you choose to communicate it can be great for ownership. So yeah, so I think just coming to peace with what happened. telling people, my closest friends, different aspects of it. And I think as I experienced triggers, as I experienced my first Thanksgiving, Christmas, anniversary, all these things that were deeply painful, Valentine's Day, it was horrible. Honestly, I was proud last year when I was only crying about it once a week.

Mm-hmm.

there's so many people around me, I didn't really realize, like, there's— I was crying about it every week still, even though I didn't want to be with that person. It's the impact of it. So giving myself the time to cry. Honestly, this might be bad advice, but to me, like, having days where I was like, today I'm gonna sit down and listen to a breakup playlist and watch a breakup movie, and I'm gonna let myself feel all the feels. And then at the end of the night, I'm going to remind myself why it didn't work, what I'm looking forward to, what I deserve. And that's that. But I think I came to accept that because I loved so deeply, that's why it still hurts so deeply. And I chose to love that side of me that loved so deeply. And that's just a consequence of it. So having those nights to me was important. Of course, therapy. Like, I started that the moment we I found out everything and we separated in August of 2019. And we— I was in therapy twice a week until about November of that year. And then after that, it went to like once a week. And it was really, really intense. Um, but I got so many tools that I still use till this day.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and I honestly feel like I would have navigated the whole experience very differently If I wouldn't have had those tools, I would have been very reactive. I would have been— all these feelings that we have come up.

Of course.

And my therapist validated what was happening to me, which was huge in my situation. Whenever there's lies and deception and different layers to it, if there's a therapist navigating through this whole season, an unbiased professional source, and they can be like, This is the behavior I'm noticing. From my professional opinion, this is where you need to go more than your support system. That to me was like, okay, I have a sounding board to give me input into that. So yeah, I would just say therapy, your support system, and just honestly letting yourself cry about it. Because if you cared and you loved, then it comes with it and it's painful.

Yeah. And I also want to address if, if, you know, maybe you ended a relationship and, you know, it wasn't necessarily a traumatic experience and it wasn't even necessarily toxic, but you knew that your compatibility wasn't there, or, you know, you just didn't— maybe they were really into you and you weren't really feeling a future with them, or whatever the situation is. Or vice versa, like giving yourself the space to feel that and to like not necessarily stay in it forever. But like, I've noticed that when things like that would happen, and I would suppress them, it ended up coming up in other relationships. And so if you're at the end of a relationship, or you're processing the end of a relationship, I just want to celebrate that because you're doing the work for your future relationship to be healthy and to start off on this really beautiful foundation where you're not bringing your past relationships into your new relationships. Granted, there will always be an element of that, right? But it's like that ownership element. And, you know, it's hard when maybe you have the same friend group, you work together, you go to the same church, you, you know, whatever this— go to the same gym, whatever the situation is. And you have that exposure to the heartache.

Mm-hmm.

I know, I also just want to like empathize with that too. Like, that can be really difficult. So how can you shift or change your environment to protect your peace and to give yourself the space that you need, you know, from that person or from that environment? Because when we have consistent exposure to a person after the relationship has ended, It can also honestly kind of prolong the healing process because just more stuff keeps— like, it's difficult to move forward. And like, it's like ripping a scab off every time you see them. Like, it's never going to fully heal. And I'm not saying you have to cut them out of your life forever, but like, you know your situation best. And like, you know, how can you invite that like awareness of their proximity into like the situations? Like, okay, I need to maybe— Not go see them twice a week or whatever the situation is.

Yeah, yeah. Whenever we're in a relationship, we truly do create a level of attachment to each other. And so being able to create those boundaries, maybe you did have a really great breakup. Those are out there and those do happen. And the more clear that you get on who you are and where you want to be, perhaps you're an amazing person And you want different things in life. And so now you're breaking up, but how are you watching for that environment? And another thing too is when it comes to breakups is boundaries with the people around you with the breakup. So they want to know what happened. So prepare yourself to what are you going to— how are you going to respond? Hey, it just didn't work out. Thank you for asking. I'm doing okay. Think about these things beforehand so that in the moment you're not freaking out about what to say. Or if you're feeling emotional, you might feel like— dumping all this information that you might regret later.

Yeah.

But having boundaries, like, feel free to just say, hey, actually, I don't want to talk about it. Thank you for asking, but I don't want to talk about the breakup. Like, be prepared for those things, especially if you shared a lot of these social circles, like you went to the same coffee shop, you went to the same gym, etc. And I think that's just a great way to protect yourself. Something that I personally did was I chose to not talk about it. Actually, I haven't really talked about it until now publicly. But even people who would ask me about it, until I felt like I wasn't emotionally charged, I was able to speak about it from a neutral or mostly neutral state that I was taking ownership for my words and it wasn't reactive or trying to defend or trying to prove a point. And so that's something that I would recommend because even if the breakup ended well, you still love them. There's still emotions. You still want to share certain things. Maybe they moved on quickly afterwards too, and you're hurt about it. And so just really being proactive and thinking of those questions ahead of time and deciding who do you want to be post-breakup.

Yes, I love that. And it's like, you know, sometimes you just want to be messy. Like after my heartbreak, I wanted to literally just like do a schmear campaign. You know, we're gonna get bumper stickers made and everything. The slam book. Pull out the slam book. Yeah, literally the slam book, the burn book. Like, you know, front cover. Um, and you know, there's a tendency to kind of want to be messy, you know, or like I noticed, you know, when— I mean, this— I was younger, but like just getting drunk and like, okay, I'm gonna like get over this breakup in college through this, this, and this, or like Even as an adult, you go through a breakup and you're like, let's get the girls and let's go out and let's get wasted. It's like noticing some of those tendencies that are going to come up. And, you know, I'm not saying that you can't go out with your girlfriends. I'm just saying like notice what you're drawn to when those kind of difficult situations happen when a relationship ends, because that can also be like tied to something else. you to explore that's like, is that, you know, the most honoring way for you to cope for yourself?

Yeah.

Like, what's the most loving and honoring way that I can cope with this difficult heartbreak? And, you know, everyone does that in different ways. But when you— like you said, like having that proactive awareness can really set us up to move forward and on a different trajectory. than constantly being kind of pulled back into old unhealthy tendencies.

For sure. I think that is a huge aspect of heartbreak that is going to pop up. So whether you're just trying to navigate that, or perhaps you're in the middle of deciding to end a relationship, prepping yourself that these— your most unhealthy coping mechanisms and coping tendencies are going to pop up. And that was something that I wasn't prepared for. I feel like the deepest pain I went through before that was losing my dad when I was 11. So I was a kid. But as an adult, I didn't really have any of those coping tendencies pop up until the divorce happened. And so then suddenly I was scared of all these— I'm like, oh my gosh, did I just spend $300 shopping online at midnight after I cried for like 3 hours? Yes, I did. And so, okay, now I know that I have this tendency, so I need to watch myself. And it can just feel really scary when you see these things, or suddenly you're like, oh, let's go drinking. Like, I'm feeling sad today, let's go drinking. And one thing that I'm really, um, in a sense grateful for, that I witnessed how my mom coped through grief when losing my dad.

Mm-hmm.

And my mom's never been a huge drinker. But especially after she— he passed away, she decided to not drink at all for like, I think it was at least a year. Because she was like, I am navigating such heavy emotions and such grief that if I don't even want to open that door, because I have you to take care of. Wow. And so witnessing that, to me in my journey, I was like, I need to be extra careful on the days that I'm emotional. And as you start healing, you'll have less of those sad days. But on those sad days, let's really be proactive of protecting those coping tendencies and fill them with healthier ones. But just know it's going to happen and it might feel daunting at first. It might be a side of you you've never seen before, and that's okay. And you can cope with them.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I really appreciate the depth and the vulnerability that we're both bringing to the table here. I know that it can be hard to talk about hard traumatic things that you've walked through. And so I just really appreciate you holding the space. And I hope that for you listening, if you relate to Astra's story or my story or neither of us, but just found like a sense of peace about letting go of a breakup. Like, you know, we're— this is why we do this, is to like bring these— the level of awareness to these topics, and also just like to create a space where we can genuinely like navigate those in-between moments of like, you know, in-between breakups and love and, and just processing that together.

Definitely. Thank you for this conversation. And to all of you listening, thank you for giving us this little pocket of the internet to share our stories with you. And like Alexis said, we're here to just share it in hopes that this will benefit any— anyone out there that's navigating that. And if you are navigating this breakup right now and you have heavy feelings, I'm with you. Just know that there are way better days ahead, that this is just temporary, even though it feels so permanent.

Yes.

And if you need— truly, my DMs are open. I know Alexis's DMs are open. If you need to talk about it, if you want to know books or anything like that that has helped us walk through our journeys, please reach out and don't isolate because that's what I did for a long time. So I hope that you all enjoyed this conversation, that it was helpful. And just a reminder that we'll be doing Q&A next week, so make sure to pop into social media for those. Um, and then do you want to share about what we want to talk about in March?

Yeah, so in March we are focusing the entire month on career development. I'm so excited about this. Some of our most listened to episodes are when Astrid and I have talked about navigating, um, job changes, quitting our jobs, negotiating salaries. And so for the month of March, we're going to be talking about resumes, nailing an interview, knowing when it's time to maybe pivot careers. How do you get to that next level in your career? How do you develop those skills? And then also the processes of being your own boss too. So for our entrepreneur listeners, we'll be covering that as well. So I'm really excited to dig into all things career because it is a beautiful part of life. And We're both two ambitious women. So I'm like, we need to talk about— we can talk about careers on the pod.

Definitely. Yes. We're going to be sharing all the things that we have done, all the things that we have seen, because we've also been on the hiring side of the process and then we've been on the applying side. So really it's going to be a month of just sharing all the tools that we have with you guys, hoping that if you're in that season that it will help you. And yeah, I am so excited for it. Thank you again for tuning in today. Feel free to connect with us on Our Instagram, which is @inbetween.pod, or myself @astrajohannaphoto.

Or you can connect with me @alexistechmiller, and I'll have those linked up in the show notes. So thankful that you're here and for this community that we're building, and we will see you next week.