Is Yoga Against Christianity? (The Truth)

Welcome to the Yoga Liberty podcast. My name's Angelica and I'm also known as Yoga Liberty on Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, wherever they got the social medias. I'm out there. This is the podcast. Today we're going to be meeting with Jocelyn. She's going to be talking to us about Christianity and yoga, which is a super exciting topic. But before we get into that, if you want to create your own online yoga course, please do go into the description and click the link to find out about the Empowered Yoga Teachers Project, what we do in the Empowered Yoga Teachers Collective is we help yoga teachers who want to create something online and stop doing the grind of driving around from class to class for $20 all over the place. Or maybe you wanna keep doing that. I don't know, but also have something online. So we help you create your first course and get it launched, get online. If you want to find out about how you can do that, go to the description below, click the link, watch the video, and then set up a time to meet with me or somebody from my team. And we'll talk to you about what it is that we do. And you can tell us about what you want to do. Uh, anyhow, Jocelyn, somebody who did that. So she, uh, has been in our program, uh, for a while now. She's also in my inner circle, so she's not just in the Empowered Yoga Teachers Collective anymore. She's moved on to that. She's one of very few elite people that are in my inner circle. So she's not just creating courses but creating certifications, and so I'm really excited to have her here today. And welcome to the podcast, Jocelyn.

Thank you, Angelica. It's so wonderful to be here.

So let's just like dive right in and talk about, you know, what made you wanna become a yoga teacher? Why did you wanna, why'd you wanna do this crazy thing?

I know it is kind of crazy, isn't it? Well, I started off, um, my movement career, if you wanna say career, as a ballerina. Um, I was able to be in a dance company right outta high school for a couple years, which was amazing. It was such an amazing privilege. And then, um, around like 2014, I realized I wanted to, um, get a bachelor's degree and look for something that's kind of in the movement field. And so I was going towards physical therapy. And when I finished my degree in 2016, I realized, you know, let's go ahead and for the master's, let's try physical therapy. And I knocked on that door for 2 years, never got in. I just could not get into school. They just were not accepting me. And I'm like, okay, I guess I gotta go at this from outside the box. And around that time I was working in a physical therapy office and the PT I was working with, her name is Merz, M-E-R-Z. She was awesome, awesome lady. She loved yoga and she happened to, and I was, we were talking about it one day and she saw this advertisement for a local class right after we finished work. So I tried it for the first time. I'd kind of heard about it in the, in the ballet world, but it was kind of like one of those taboo things like weightlifting was at the time. It was like, maybe they do it, but maybe we don't. But I was like, let's just try this. I'd never really liked Pilates. I kind of liked it, but— so went to my first class, fell in love, absolutely fell in love. Plus my yoga instructor, who's still my yoga instructor, Amy Lee Hodges, shout out to her, she's awesome. She teaches Ashtanga style, which is very regimented. And that's kind of how ballet was, always regimented for me. And so that's why I fell in love with Ashtanga style, was the regimented stuff and the fact that you really were focusing on technique. And as a classical ballerina, I understand technique is strongly important, hugely important. And then also I realized Oh my goodness, like my joints are starting to ache and they're starting to like get all creaky. But yoga is a beautiful thing, whereas ballet, I loved it, but it wasn't going to take me into my old elder age. Yoga I could see was doing stuff where it's like you're standing in parallel, you're squatting, you're doing stuff like that that you do in normal life. So that's kind of how I came into yoga, was I'm like, this is awesome. Like it can take me into my elder age and I can still be moving and dancing around.

That's really amazing. Like I never even thought about it that way because I always always have been like, like low-key kind of jealous of ballerinas because I'm, uh, when I was a little girl in the second grade, I would walk— we grew up Catholic, so I would walk to, um, my Catholic school at St. Matthew's every morning. And as I was walking by, there was a ballet school on the way, and I would stop and I would look in the windows. I never have been a very great student. I, I like always, like, my walk to school was like a meander. Just now that I think back about it, like, I just never really vibed with school. But, um, I would see them practicing ballet and I was like, I just wanna do that. You know, like I also wanna practice ballet, but my parents, you know, that wasn't a priority for them. I learned how to twirl baton. So, but I remember thinking like how cool it was. I really wanna do it. I actually ended up in yoga because I really wanted to do ballet. But by the time I could control like what I was doing in life, I, I was too old to do ballet. So I was like, all right, well, whatever, I'm gonna do yoga. So that's how I kind of got into that. But I love that, you know, like thinking of it from that perspective, like, yeah, like ballerinas do kind of beat up their bodies, whereas like yogis, it's the other way around. Yeah. So it can take you into like your whole life.

Yeah. You know, the dance company I was dancing with, the, the lady who founded the dance company was still dancing into her 60s, but she was like, that is not the norm. Usually even female dancers, like maybe they'll top it like 50 and then they start teaching. So like, and I just, I just, I look like a dancer, I have the physique, but my, my, um, my joint structure is not at all there. So I was just, yeah, it was a struggle. But that's why I love yoga, is actually I have found myself like feeling like 20 again with my joints. And it's such a beautiful thing because I can dance again. I'm like kind of getting back into dance a little bit on my, just on my own time. And it's just so beautiful to feel the joints just like moving so easily and smoothly. I'm like, yes! Yoga. Thank you, yoga.

Nice. Yeah, that's nice. I always— so we— I had said, Carol— Carolyn was on the podcast the other day and we were talking and I just had the realization. So like when we meet in real life, um, one of the things I've always noticed is that like immediately you're like, oh, there's like this, this like moment of recognition where you're like, I know you. And there's like always like one little thing that you're like, okay, I didn't know that was like that, but cool, we're friends, you know? And like you just feel like how we feel talking on this, you know, like We know each other, like everything becomes very natural.

Exactly, yeah.

But one of the things that we were talking about is that like I immediately notice if someone's tall or not, and I always just assume that everyone is really tall. Like, I'm like, oh yeah, because I'm 5'8", so I'm like, everybody's 5'8", right? And then, yeah, but Carolyn was like, I'm 5'3", and I was like, what? So then it just occurred to me when you were like, I have a dancer's body, I was like, I think in my mind you're 5'9" or 5'10".

No, I'm 5'4". That's so crazy.

Like, why is everybody so short? That's amazing. Yeah. But yeah, that's always the only thing. Otherwise, I always feel like once you meet people from the internet, it's like so cool. I feel like when I met Tiffany, there was like this moment where we were both like, whoa, this is cool. And then we like hugged and we were like, it was great.

Yeah.

But, um, yeah. So, so tell us about like how, um, how it formed that you decided to start doing Christian yoga, cuz that's really specific and a lot different than just yoga.

Yeah, absolutely. So I have always had a strong faith. I grew up in church and it was more like my parents' faith for a while, like a lot of people. And then as I grew older, it became my faith. I started to understand why I, as my own person, believed what my parents believed. I found it in scripture and everything, and. I have always seen that dance can be done to, to worship God and to just like bring the beauty of God into life through movement. And when I stepped into a yoga studio, I was just stepping into it at first. It was just like, let's, let's just try out yoga. I wasn't really thinking about it in the Christian mindset because to me, I'm like, I'm always bringing my Christian self everywhere I go. Like, that's just like part of my identity. But then when I really started to really focus in on the Christian yoga aspect, as I was starting to think about taking it out and teaching it— because I, I taught ballet for about, I don't know, since I became a student teacher when I was 15 and stopped teaching ballet in my mid-30s. And then about that time is when I started teaching yoga. So it's— I've been teaching yoga since around 2020-ish, around there. So about 5 years or so. And so when I stepped into it, at first I was like, I'm just going to teach yoga. Let me just teach it. And then I realized there was like something like I was missing a part of the element because the more I started getting into yoga, I started realizing, well, there's breath, there's meditation, and there's movement. And the more I thought, kept thinking about meditation, the more I realized, oh, I need to really, you know, I know the word meditation. Um, and I had a great conversation with my grandfather about that recently, which I hope to post soon on my, on my channel, on my YouTube channel, but, um, about biblical meditation and scripture meditation. So that's when I realized I really need to focus in on the Christian yoga aspect and really bring my faith into it, because if I really believe what scripture says about meditation, I need to take that into the meditation practice, which is part of the yoga practice.

Yeah. Yeah. Tell us a little bit, like what that's, what is that like? Like, what does that, what does that look like for you?

Yeah. So what it looks like for me is as I am taking my time to focus my mind and take the breath and allow my body to still, allow my mind to still and kind of calm down, then I then bring in scripture. You know, things that come up into my mind. I'll bring up scripture to my mind to meditate on, but I'll also bring up like characteristics of God, like God is loving, God is a provider, he's my protector, or, you know, just even like thoughts that come into my mind as, as my mind is stilling. I take every thought that is not beautiful and good and godly and of God, I take that captive, um, as scripture says, and I, I say, I say to it, this is not God, this is, this is This is not good. This is not healing and a hold to my body. And then I let it pass out of my mind and I instead fill my mind with, well, this is instead what God says about me. Yes, I am, you know, and I, you know, I can't think of everything right now in my mind, you know, but whatever it is that is good and loving for others around you, but also for yourself, for the work that you're doing. And a lot of times what I've realized too, what I've learned in these moments of reflection and meditation is how much dance taught me to be a perfectionist. But that's not what God has for me. God does not want me to be a perfectionist. He wants me to reach for excellence, which means I need to give myself grace. And so in those moments, giving myself grace and going, it's okay. You're okay. Just take a moment, breathe, you know, and just be still. And yeah, so that's kind of how I've taken it into my practice.

Yeah, that's really fascinating. I really like that. Like, I never really thought of it that way, but it's almost like, like mantra, you know, like how people do mantra, but it's, it's a different style of doing it that way. And you know, what's really fascinating to me is we, you know, I've done, I've hosted 35 in-person teacher trainings and hundreds of people have graduated my online yoga teacher trainings. But like, I always feel like people just really don't grasp the idea that the Yoga Sutras are like, this can be for any religion. We're just using this as an example because that's where we're from, you know? And so I think that's really fascinating. And I have had people, so I had someone one time who was in one of my teacher trainings. Uh, she was an incredible yoga teacher, phenomenal yoga teacher. She's also a contortionist. Um, but she was just like, also when she taught, she was so good at teaching classes. Her YouTube was like so cool, um, and I really enjoyed her videos. Wonderful human being. She worked for me for a little bit, but she ended up giving up teaching yoga because she decided that it was evil and that it wasn't in alignment with Christianity. So like, maybe you could talk a little bit about like why people think that and why you think that's not really accurate.

Yeah, I have— I cannot tell you how many stories I've heard about that. There's actually a friend of mine, we were just talking about a local woman who she's, she's of Catholic faith and, you know, of the Catholic Christian faith. And she was teaching yoga and then, and then just recently just couldn't because she felt like it was not— did not line up with her faith anymore. So I cannot tell you how many, how many times I've heard that. And it saddens me because I guess because of my background with dance, I was able to be— I learned at a young age how dance movement can be used for God. And dance is almost the same story. So a lot of times people are like, well, you can't dance in church. Dance is, is, is, is not Christian. And I've had to— I had to break through that barrier starting around high school and then even up into my adulthood, moving, moving. I'm, I'm now in Tennessee and having to move to Tennessee and being a Southern Baptist. I was in a Southern Baptist church for a while, and, and they were like, dance is, is, is not godly. And I had to help them understand that can be. So I kind of broken through that barrier with dance, and so I took that mindset into yoga and I said, well, how, how can I take that same mindset of God made movement, period, God created movement, end of sentence— how can I take that thought and move it into the yoga space? And as I looked at it, I realized that it was man who took the idea of this beautiful thing which is yoga, which is really binding yourself back together the way God created you— mind, body, and spirit— just binding that back together. And they instead said, well, we're going to worship other gods here, and we're gonna like, you know, do this and do that, that are like, you know, what people call New Age or spiritual practice. And so that's kind of where I think the idea came from that it's demonic, that we're worshiping idols, is because man took it and decided to decided to move it in that direction. Um, in a reality, yoga is just like you say, it's, it's just a practice of movement, breath movement and meditation. It really does not have any religion tied to it. It is really to focus your spirit towards— I remember reading like, I think it's— isn't it Light and Light of Yoga? Light and Yoga with, uh, Light on Yoga with, uh, BKS Iyengar. Yeah, it doesn't say something about it's supposed to like point you to your, to your, like, to your, to your God, you know? Isn't that supposed to be like, you know? And so I look at it, I'm like, that's what we're doing is we're taking this idea because all things, if we really truly believe scripture, that when God said he created things and he called them good, if that's the case, then movement is good and we can capture it and go, let's, let's take it into, let's take it into our faith. Let's add our faith to it. So that's how I look at it. I mean, You know, I have other friends who've done a deep biblical dive on it. I had a wonderful conversation with a new friend, Tanya, with Faithful Flow. She deep dove into scripture because she had that time of wondering, is this really biblical? And she deep dived into it. So I can always, you know, ask her for some resources on that, 'cause I just went with prayer, and I just went before God and said, Is this something I can do? And I, the doors kept opening, the pathway kept lighting up. And that's usually how a lot of times God directs me is he keeps letting the doors open. I'm like, okay, I'll keep stepping through until you tell me to stop.

Yeah, that's really interesting. When you were talking earlier about how you were trying to go to school for movement and to, to like a traditional school and you just kept getting turned down. And I noticed like I've had blocks like that before too, where it's like you just keep trying something, you just keep hitting a wall on it and then You get this other thing, you know, and I think like just knowing you and having worked with you, like what you have to offer to the world could create like a massive movement for people to really get in touch with their connection with, with God, with spirit divine, but at the same time also like embrace these, like, you know, I, The thing about the Yoga Sutras, in my opinion, is that, you know, it was— and this isn't my opinion, but it was written, it was written, it was like oral tradition that was written down, right? And it was written like a really long time ago, just like the Bible was. And there's so much room for interpretation in those periods of time, you know. And I think also one thing I personally really struggle with is like how the Bible has been interpreted. And if you look— so I like to get in ChatGPT and be like, okay, tell me how this scripture is interpreted by, you know, 10 different translations of the Bible, and then give me the actual literal translation from the Greek of what it said, you know. And like, yes, it's so fascinating, you know. I mean, I could talk about the King James Version all night long, but It's so fascinating to me, like how we're so literal about text that honestly is more, it's more, it's a study. It's, we can't know really, unless you speak the language that it was written in, you can't know what it really actually says. You're always looking at an interpretation, you know? So I, yeah, I just don't really like to rely on other people as my interpretory But that's not a word, I made it. Um, that's my new word. There you go. Love it. Yeah. I don't want other people to tell me, you know, how to, to do things. Right. So I'm just not into the bossiness, but anyhow. So at some point you decided you wanted to take it online. Like what made you decide you wanted to create this movement and go online and no longer just be doing in person?

Well, it's a fascinating story. I don't think I've ever really told it in full before, so this is the first time I'm telling the full story. But what's really hilarious about it, and sometimes God does this with me, is, um, I think like a year or two before I started going online, a friend of mine was having a conversation with me, he and his wife, and he's like, you know, you should really think about taking your yoga stuff and putting it online onto YouTube. And I'm like, no, I don't know if I can do that. I don't know what I'm doing. There's like so much to it. I don't know if I can do it. I have the room, the space. Like, excuse, excuse, excuse, excuse. And then like, because— and I, I know, I know now, like, looking back, I'm like, oh, that was God, because he planted the seed and he was like, I'm gonna water this, you just watch, you just watch. And I don't remember like what it was, um, but I just like, all of a sudden, out of— I felt like it was out of nowhere, you know, but of course it wasn't. And it was like, it was like all of a sudden out of nowhere, I was like, oh, I think I actually want to do this. And I think I actually might have some space in my house and oh, I can use, just use my phone. Okay. And then, um, I don't remember if I started to film first, but then, um, but as I was thinking about it, sometimes you just don't remember the sequence of events. They just like blend together so beautifully that it's like, you just, it just like seems like it just pop out of nowhere, you know, started. So I had heard about a local guy in the, or a businessman in town who who was huge online, and I had heard about him and how successful he was on YouTube. And I happened to see a video he posted. In this video, he was talking about that he wanted to help people get online and launch their business. And I was like, oh, okay, let's do this. So he was my first coach. And so that was Tanner Bell. And, uh, he helped me understand how I could get myself on YouTube figure out how to film, you know, start my— do my titles, my descriptions, and also get onto Instagram and start that. And so it just, it just like, it just sparked. I think it was the seed planted by my friend and then thinking about, you know, I actually could do this. And I don't remember like if it was I wanted to bring it to more people or if it was like wanting to make a side income. Maybe it was kind of both together, kind of the idea of wanting to bring it to more people and also like the idea of this is a great way to make a side income. And also just too, like, I felt like my current full-time job, I was getting— starting to get a little dissatisfied. And also that's the way God kind of leads me into something new, is he, he makes me— where I felt comfortable, he makes me uncomfortable in where I'm at, so that he's— because I love my comfort zone, so he's like, okay, little chickie, that we're gonna push you out of the nest. And so that's kind of like how it started, is I was— it just like, it culminated in so many, like, several different things kind of brought it all together and into this now? What is this movement that I have going on?

Yeah, that's really incredible. That's really incredible. I, I overthought going online as well. Like, I wish that like 2012 when I first started wanting to go online that I would have just done it, you know, like, but you know, but I remember just thinking like, YouTube, I need a special camera and I need a special microphone, I need somebody to film me and I can't afford any of that. Like, it's just like not what it is, you know?

Yes.

So I don't know why I was so worried about that, but you know, it is what it is. I guess our phones weren't as good as they are now also, but still. Anyhow, so how did you happen upon us? So you had been doing some stuff online, you had been working online, but it wasn't as much as you wanted to do. You weren't creating at the level that you wanted to create.

So that's correct.

What brought you to wanting to work with us? Like what, what brought you to, to be in the journey with the Empowered Yoga Teacher?

Yeah, so, um, actually how I started off being introduced to you was, you know, I was following different yoga, um, channels on Instagram or pages or whatever you want to call them. I'm a, I'm an elder millennial, I don't know all the language. Anyway, so, um, actually because I was like wanting to think about doing assisting in person in class because I usually would stand at the front of class class and just like verbally cue everybody. But I was like, I really do want to get onto Hands-On Assist. So actually, I somehow, like, you know how the algorithm is, and maybe, I think maybe it was one of your ads for Hands-On Assist class or course came up. And so I was like, oh, this is fascinating. And so I, like you say, I saw it several times before I bought it. And when I bought it, I was like, this is amazing stuff. I love how she's teaching this. I love her teaching style. I love how she's like helping me understand where to put my weight, where to put my hands, in such a simple way that's not complicated. And so it was just simple, straightforward, lots of information. Um, and so I just, you know, was just going about my life posting, but, um, in the back of my head I started to think, my current coach knows a lot about YouTube, a lot about YouTube. Um, but he doesn't know a lot about Instagram. The one person he encouraged me to follow, it just didn't feel right. It just— her, her stuff, her encouragement on what to post, there's just something that just didn't resonate with me. I'm like, this doesn't feel right. It just wasn't connecting. And so it wasn't really a prayer, but you know, sometimes your non-prayers get answered too. And so then your ad for the Empowered Yoga course came up and I was like, hmm, actually, no, wait a minute. No, I'm sorry. I forgot. No, no, no. It wasn't that. It was your, it was your ad about the, uh, about the Instagram. It was the Instagram, uh, Reels. What was it called?

Um, challenge. Reels challenge.

Yes, the Reels challenge. So that's what it was. It came up at the right time. The Reels challenge came up at the right time and I was like, yes, I can do this a week. I can do it for a week. I can do this. And so I went ahead and I signed up. And for one, for the first time, I felt like I connected with people over Zoom. It was the first time I've ever felt that experience. So that was a wonderful, beautiful experience with you and Francesca. Thank you. Thank you. You create an amazing space. And I loved it. And that was actually the first time I started really posting Christian yoga. And what it was is because you guys were so encouraging and you were like, I love this. This is awesome. Like, not enough people are talking into the space. Like, you need to push into it more. I was like, oh, okay, because I kind of was moving in that direction, but I hadn't really like really pushed hard to it. And you guys really encouraged— you're like, you need to kind of like step out on a limb and just be a little bold and be a little bit like, you know, with one of your posts, just like, just like say it and wait. Just wait for the reaction. Like, you know, Christian yoga is not demonic. I'm like, okay, I said it. I said the quiet part out loud. I was like Um, so, and then kind of at the end of the week, you guys were kind of talking about— actually, yeah, you had said, hey, Jocelyn, I think you would be a great candidate for Empowered Yoga course. And I was like, well, excuse, excuse, I have a current coach, I don't know. But then that night, it was like I had this like mental tap on the shoulder, and God's I was like, she might be, she might be a good choice. And so the next day, I think it was, and you might remember, I don't remember, you know, again, just, it just happened, but I signed up for a call and I get on a call with Francesca and for, and, and what's really awesome about her too was really encouraging. And she's like, Joslyn, she's like, I have recently come to my faith about a year and a half ago, and I've been looking for somebody like you. And so that was like a huge encouragement is to go, oh, there's actually someone out there, a physical person I can see who said I, I have what they need. And so on the call, she was so encouraging about that too. And she was like, hey, this is what we do. This is what we're going to do for you. And, um, I was like, you know what? I was like, I'm so scared. I'm so scared. But my gut, like, there was such deep peace. And that's also where I learned to know when God's speaking, is when there's such a deep well of peace. And so in that call, I was searching for, is this you, God? And I just— there is like this deep well of peace. Even as I think back to it, like, even right now as I'm thinking back, I, I feel that. I feel that deep resonant peace from that decision. And I was like, you know what, scares the heck out of me financially. Like, it really does. But I feel like this is the right decision to make. And like, it so was. Like, when I got into the course, like, you know, when they say buyer's remorse, I was like, 3 days in, I was like, what have I done? What have I done? But I'm like, you know what, no, I've made this decision. I'm gonna go for it. And, um, so I got into the course, started looking at the material, and I was I was like, whoa. I was like, this is so much information. And you provided like so much information. Like, I saw that in the Reels Challenge. Like, I saw like you knew what was happening in the industry because you were, you were in the grind with us. And I just, that was so encouraging that you were in the grind with us. You knew what was happening, you saw it every day. And then the same thing in the Empowered Yoga course was like you were seeing it happen every single day. Um, and you were like, this is what works. This is what kind of doesn't, you know, and let's, let's, let's get you going. And you were encouraging. You gave us so much information and it was like, yes, this was the best decision ever, ever, because you really, you, you gave, you gave, you kept giving more and you didn't hold back. And you were like, I'm not a gatekeeper. And that was true. You are such, you are such a person of integrity and, um, and you have like, there's just not enough words.

Oh my goodness. Well, thank you for all those nice things that you said. I do really like, I really want people to feel that way in my courses though. I really want, I want it to seem unfair. Like I want it to be like, wow, she gave me so much more than I ever paid for. This is insane. This is crazy. Like I want it to be unfair on, on my side, you know? You know that like I just over-deliver. It's really important to me. I think it's the right thing to do, like at the end of the day. And I encourage everyone that's in my courses to do that as well. And you know, you've been in group calls and stuff where there'll be people that produce something that is not really a lot. They want to charge a lot. And I'm like, don't do that. Yeah, yeah, don't do that. You— it doesn't make sense. Like you want to create repeat buyers, like people who come and get, you know, more than one thing. Like you took the the Hands-On Adjustments and Assists course, then you took my Reels course, then you joined the Empowered Yoga Teachers course, and now you're in my inner circle and you get to come to my house. Like, yeah, that's the kind of like generosity you want to build with people. Because at the end of the day, like, I get on a lot of calls with people for— they want to come to the Empowered course, and I'm always like a little bit, you know, marketing has to be like really heavy, like, you can make money online, otherwise people won't sign up for it, you know. You're not going to be like, you can help people change their lives and have a wonderful life of your own. You know, nobody wants to sign up for that. Yeah. But I always like people that are just money-driven. I'm always just like, mm, you know, like kind of turned away from that. Like, I think that what's inspiring is a mission. Do I like to make money?

Absolutely. Yes.

I love it. I think that God wants us to be abundant. I think he wants us to be divine. I don't think, I think if he wanted me to to live in a different way, he would've put me in a different situation. He would've given me different skills. Like, I believe that I got the skills to be an insanely good marketer. I got the skills to be really good at sales. Like, I got the skills to help people more than anything, help people understand what it is inside of them that they can offer to the world and to get over their fears. I call it breaking your brain. Yeah, you know, our brains are like wired to a certain point, you know. And like, I just was on a call, I did a welcome call with somebody this morning. She was like, thank you for talking me into this, and like, thank you for giving me that extra push that I needed to do this because I did need to do this. And if you hadn't said to me, well, why wait, why wait 3 months when now that's 3 months of income you won't be having, and you're like right at the perfect time time to launch, you know, right after people's resolutions are over, whatever, right? Like, this is a great time for you to launch. And that's what I was telling her. And, and, you know, people don't think about it from the viability standpoint, which is what I'm thinking all the time. But I also think, like, I deeply believe that what I'm doing is creating an army of yoga teachers who are creating incredible offers that are changing the face of the internet and social media and access to yoga. And access to a better life. Like, I only teach yoga because I like people to be happy. Yeah, yoga is the conduit to which I do it. Yeah, you know, happy, happy life.

Absolutely. Like, yeah, I love that, and I love how passionate you are, and I love how skilled you are in marketing. But not only— like, what I love too is that there's so many people out there who know how to do it, but they don't know how to teach. And I love that you know how to teach it, like, and you know how to find the resources to teach it. Like, your recent video you sent, you know, your inner circle people about the I, you, they, like, it was like, I was like, yes! I'm like, this is what I've been missing. This is what I've been missing and understanding. Like, I'm like, like, now I just need to like train my brain to like do that because I'm I'm like, that's what it is. And it feels like, it feels so true. Like, and I love how so much of a person of integrity you are that when it comes to marketing, like you say, you're not just out to make money, you're out there to like help people. And there's a difference in the energy that that is. And there's a difference in the way that you teach because you actually teach people how to be authentic in presenting their material. Like, I don't feel like like I am selling a lie. I know that every time I talk about something, I can feel in my whole body that I'm telling the truth. When I'm saying, you will love this course, you will like this, you like, like my Firm Foundation course that I'm— that we're about— that we're probably going to talk about, um, a little while.

Let's talk about it. Let's talk about what you created. Like, tell us about your Firm Foundation course. Like, yeah, shamelessly promote all this. Tell me everything. Tell me everything.

I want to I, I know I'm telling the truth when I tell people this will help strengthen your physical and spiritual core. And you helped me realize that. Like, I, I realized too, like, you know, you're like, let's call it something. So I'm like, you know what I love about God being the core of my life? He's a firm foundation. So that's why I decided to call it Firm Foundation, is because like God is your, your spiritual core and your, and your core is your physical core. Like it helps give your body that firm foundation too. So your core is your firm foundation. Of your body. If you don't have a strong core, your, your body's not going to be firm. You're not going to be able to stand strong. You're not going to be able to walk strong. You're not going to be able to sit well and stand and all of that. And that's just part of like longevity and just also having strong yoga poses. If your core is not strong, your yoga poses aren't going to be strong. So like, but like, I realized like I didn't need to do a Bible study, so I have a Bible study in there too talking about how God is your firm foundation, pulling scripture in and doing that. Like, you know, the one scripture that we talk about— I can't remember, I, I have to— I struggle remembering like, like where it is, but I remember the verse, I just don't remember what it is. But it talks about how like God is your rock, and when you build your life on God, it is your rock. But when you build your life on something else, it's like sand. And when the storms come and the rains come, it will erode your foundation because it's built on sand. And so instead, you need to build on God's rock so that when the storms of life come, when life gets hard, you can stand firm and have that firm foundation. So same thing with your core is that when you have a strong core and like you get an injury, then you can still walk securely, you can still sit securely, you can still stand securely. When the storms of your yoga pose come, like you're like, whoa, like the full moon is here, my balance is off, you're able to kind bring everything back into the center. And because you have that strong core, but also I've realized too, the pelvic floor, especially with women, is such a difficult topic because like there's, there's Kegels, but what else? There's not a lot out there and they want easy, simple exercises that have nothing to do with Kegels and nothing to do with sit-ups. Like, who wants to do sit-ups? Like, I mean, I don't know about you, Angelica, but like sit-ups are not fun.

Not me, not me.

Russian twists are not fun. They're not fun. So like, I was like, what can I take from my yoga practice? And what have I taken from my yoga instructor that she helps us do these things that are just simple, easy core exercises that build your core? So that's what I've put in my Firm Foundation course. And yeah, it's just such a great thing. I just love that I get to, to bring that to people.

I love that. I love that. So you can grab that course in the, um, description below. We're going to put the link there. And, um, I kind of want to tease a little bit because Jocelyn and I are working on a big project right now. She's working on a Christian yoga certification program. So if you want to just tease a little bit about that, it might— by the time this podcast comes out, it might already be out. And if it is, we'll put the description in the link below. But talk a little bit about like people who want to, you know, spread the word of God, but also integrate that with yoga and help others to understand that integration. You know, what are you creating? What's in the works?

I know, right? This is so awesome. Yeah. So actually I love it. Um, it was not even on the horizon of my thought process, honestly. Like, and then you were like, when I came into, you know, into, you know, your inner circle and you were like, I have a great idea for you. I'm like, okay, what? And you're like, I have been thinking about this. I'm like, this is gonna be great. I'm like, you should do a certification course. I was like, okay. I was like, you know, at first my mind was like explosion. How do I do this? What do I do? And then the more I thought about it, the more I'm like, I love teaching people.

I, I—

and when I thought about dance, like, I've loved taking younger dancers under my wing and to teach them how to teach. Like, I— and I haven't had time to do that, but this I have time to do. I have time to create a course to teach people who love yoga and love God how to become yoga teachers, what it is it that makes up Christian yoga, and also, also break through some of the myths. Like, how to address some of these myths. Like, what do you do when someone comes into class and is like, well, I don't, I I don't know if I can do this. I'm a Christian. Like, what do we do? And so like, have those conversations, have those open and honest conversations about your beliefs. And also like, also open up the space for, you know what, if your conscience— if God is telling your conscience this is not right, then that is okay too. Like, because the Bible says that we should not go against our conscience because the Holy Spirit is God's voice in our life. And if we feel that yoga is not what God is asking us to do, is not what is calling us— he's calling us to do, then we should not do it because then we'd be sinning against our conscience and we'd be doing what God has not— God has not asked us to do. But also sometimes we're hesitant in knowing, like, how, you know, is this what God has called us to do? Also, what I love about this opportunity is showing people that it can be a ministry. And there's so many people out there in churches that are like, well, there might not be something in my church where I can do a ministry, or I don't know what to do for ministry, or What is— how can I incorporate the idea of ministry into everyday life outside of my job, outside of my family? Or you want something like, what if you're a stay-at-home mom? Or what if you're just a mom or a wife, or just like me, just a single person working? How do you take your passion for ministry and what do you do? And maybe you love yoga and you've just never thought about taking it and going, let's combine my faith with yoga and turn it into a ministry. Let me help people get stronger physically. Let me help people get stronger mentally. Let me help people get stronger spiritually. And that is a ministry. It's a beautiful thing. And create that space for it. So I am excited about being able to bring that to people too.

Yeah, I'm excited about that too. I'm excited about that too. And I know that Jocelyn's going to be doing calls with people, so because it is something that's, you know, more intensive, you're going to get more time with her and and it's really gonna prepare and deep dive you for like what it is that you want to share with the world. So it's a serious program that takes more commitment than just, you know, an afternoon course. So if that's something that you're interested in and you wanna get really serious about your commitment to your community in that way, definitely, you know, like if the link is already below, which I think it probably will be by the time this comes out, go down there and click that link and, and book a time to connect with Jocelyn. And, you know, like she's, I mean, I think she's amazing.

I'd love to talk with you. Absolutely love to talk with you about it.

Yeah, you're, you're a wonderful person. You just have such a light around you. Every time that I'm with you, it just makes me feel better and feel good. And, um, we're so grateful that you came into the program. Like, for us, it's interesting to hear that you wrestled with it a little bit because, yeah, for us, I think we're just like, this is a no-brainer. Like, this woman, she was meant for this, like 100%. And then when you got Francesca as your person to like do your intake call, and we like, well, that was a God thing, you know? So like, we felt like, well, that was meant to be. Like, there was no doubt in our minds.

Yes, yes. But there was a lot of doubt on mine. But that's usually how it is, like, you know. And, you know, honestly, like, if you're— if you don't wrestle with it, like, is it really something you're supposed to do? You know, if, you know, I think what it is, it like, if you're not scared a little bit, like, I've learned this in, in really venturing forth into this, because before, when I've tried out stuff like entrepreneurial stuff, it's been stuff I know, it's been stuff I haven't been scared of. And I thought, I mean, I don't remember the full quote, but it's like, if you're not scared of it, then you're really— are you really called to do it? Because you have— there has to be like a little bit of like scared in you to know like this is big. And when it's big, maybe you're being called to it.

Yeah, maybe you're being called to it. Yeah. So if you— if there was somebody out there, they're listening to this and they're like, maybe I should create an online course, maybe I should do this, maybe I should get on, you know, or like, I don't know, maybe I should get on a call with Jocelyn and create my Christian yoga, you know, like, what would you say to somebody who has fear about getting on that call?

Yeah, I would say first, like, really pray about it, you know, you know, whatever, you know, if you're not a Christian, whatever, whenever that is, you know, for you when it comes to my course, like, really pray about it and see if it is something that really starts stirring up in you. And then, and then come to it like with an open mind. Let's have that conversation. Let's talk about, you know, what your goals are, what your plans are, you know, what you're passionate about. Are you passionate about Christ? Are you passionate about yoga? Then let's take that journey forward. And then like, you know what, God is a God who provides. And you know what, don't think about the finances because yes, we are told to be good stewards. And that is one of our pillars of Flow Into Alignment is being— is stewardship, stewarding Christian yoga well, but also stewarding everything else that God gives you well. And that does include our finances. But sometimes when God calls you to something, he is going to provide for that. And so we're also going to give you the tools to be able to learn how to put it— like, where do you go to teach so that— and, and how do you charge what you're worth so that you can provide for, for yourself, and so that God will open those doors of provision. And so also, like, if you're called to it, God, God God paved heaven with gold. Like, heaven, if you see, it's described as all these gems. God— and it also says in scripture that he owns cattle on a thousand hills. If he chooses to put you into Angelica's course or my course, he's gonna provide all that. And like Angelica keeps saying, like, what do you say? Like, what do you love to say? Like, there's, there's abundance everywhere. There's so much abundance. Makes sense. You know? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. Like, I like, I always say to people, like, just get on the call and they're like, oh, I don't wanna be sold hard. I'm like, promise you that is not our, that is not our vibe at all. Yeah. We were actually, um, right before this I had a meeting with Tiana and Francesca about, we have, uh, the Go Online event coming up next week.

And, um, I'm so excited for that.

You know, it might not be that, like, when this comes out, that might not be what happened. Like, that probably has already happened by the time this comes out.

But the next one they can attend.

If we do another one every time I'm like, but you know, so one of the things we, we were talking about though is like how people really just think it's going to be some kind of like hard sales call. It is really just like us. Like, it's just like the people who work in my program. I don't let anybody else do it. And like, cause I was like, I wonder what our, you know, what our competitors doing and, and, uh, Francesca was like, well, you certainly aren't going to be on a call with a yoga teacher. You're going to be on a call with a guy from Bangladesh.

Yeah, yeah.

But I just started laughing because that's what people think. It's like just going to be some salesperson, you know? And it's actually like us, like, we want to know, like, yeah, what is your idea? We'll tell you straight up if it's viable or not.

Yeah.

And if we'll like— we're really straight up. Like, if it's not for you, I'm not pressuring anybody. In fact, today I turned somebody down.

Down.

Like, straight away I said to her in the beginning, like in the first 6 minutes, I was like, I don't think this is a fit. I don't think that we're— I don't think we're going to work well together. I don't think it's a good personality fit, and I don't think that what you want to do is what we do, you know.

So the conversation is so important is to have that so that they can see who you are. We can, you know, they can resonate, you can see, are we going to resonate? Are we going to work well together? Do they actually want to learn from me? Am I— do I have an annoying voice to them? It'd be awful.

Uh, Jocelyn does not have Annoying voice, but yeah, you know, like, and you know, like how, like, especially like something like you're doing, like Christianity and yoga, like how in alignment are you with that? And what does that really entail?

Exactly.

So never be afraid to get on the call because that's the opportunity.

Exactly.

You can always say no. It's not like salespeople have some kind of magic wand, like, boo boo doo, now you must give me all the money in your wallet. I promise you if that was a thing. I would do it. I probably wouldn't though, but, but you know, but anyhow, but it's not like that. You always have the ability to say no unless you're on TikTok at 3 o'clock in the morning and you're searching through and they have like something really good on there.

TikTok is the new QVC.

It is, it is. I'm like, I need this silk bonnet. I need that, you know, like right now it's the Tent sauna. I'm like, oh, this tent sauna. Yeah, I really need this. But then I go like really deep dive and be like, ChatGPT, the tent sauna that's on TikTok, is that really worth buying? Or should I buy this one at Sam's Club? Or should I buy this other one that's $1,000? You know, give me the pros and cons.

We are not the new QVC. No, we— yeah, no, yeah, no, we have a conversation. Yeah, we, we find out like, are— is a good fit, you know, for you? Is this really, you know, for me, is this really something that you're called to do? Because it really is a calling. Christian yoga is a calling. It's not for everyone. Not everyone is called. Some people, it's like Christian yoga is more for what they should be doing just for their own private practice. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Yeah. We have people for us, it's like people be like, do I have to post on social media? And I was like, that's what going online means.

Yeah. Yes. Yes.

Who you think's gonna buy your stuff if no one sees it? Somebody today was like, do I have to have a public Instagram? I was like, how can you run ads if you don't have a public page? Anyhow, I could talk about that all day long. I don't matter. Um, it's fine, it's fine. But yeah, you know, like, I follow— there's a guy named Harry Friedman. He wrote a book called No Thanks, I'm Just Looking, and it was a sales book that I read when I was young. And I was actually at Russell Brunson's Inner Circle, and I was— I gave my presentation on sales is what I talked about. And, um, he was like, I don't know what your presentation is going to be when you come to my house and do yours, but I'm excited to hear it. But mine was on sales. So, um, I was like, I read this book, No Thanks, Just Looking. I'm just looking. And Russell wrote it down, and I was like, oh my gosh, Russell's gonna read something that I recommended. I taught Russell pranayama. So anyhow, in this book, Harry says you want sales that wear wear well. You don't want people to go home and feel like they bought something that they didn't want. You want sales that wear well. And I, I don't want anybody to sign up for my course and feel like, man, I wish I hadn't done this. And I'm sure, like, the world is vast and lots of people have signed up for my course. Like, I'm sure that there's some people out there that might feel that way. Like, I can't control everything, but yeah, gosh darn it, I'm gonna do whatever I can to make sure that, like, I have the highest integrity and give the results possible and, and give the most effort. Like, at the end of the day, some people I do be dragging, kicking, and screaming. And I hired a person specifically, like, just to do what we call customer journey specialist. And she literally just follows up with people.

Yeah.

And if she hasn't seen them for a while, like, she has a whole spreadsheet of everyone that's in the course, where they're at, what they've completed, what they had, when they met last, did they cancel a meeting. Like, she'll get in there and be like, so helpful. She's amazing, and she's like such a Type A personality. She's so perfect for it. She was my assistant at the yoga studio when I owned the studio, so she's been with me forever, like 20 years this woman's worked with me. Wow. And we were having our last meeting of the, of the year last year for 2025. I asked everybody to say like, what was your best, you know, favorite part about working at Yoga Liberty? And she was like, she started crying, and she was like, I'm just so glad to be surrounded by a group of people and be having a positive work experience because she worked at the club as a bartender, you know?

Yeah.

And she was like, I'm just so glad to not have to do that anymore. And it's like, it's so cool that like we all affect each other in this really positive way. Like, yeah, when I help you, it helps Tiana. You don't even know you're helping Tiana. Yeah, you know what I'm saying?

Exactly.

When, when somebody signs up for your course and they think their intention is to become a Christian yoga teacher and to help people through Christianity Yoga, you don't even know the ripple of the effect of people you'll never even meet, you know, by the good decisions that you make. And following your dream helps other people follow their dream. I mean, I think that that's how energy works, you know?

Yes. So yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Well, click the link below. Yes, I'll stop messing around. Click the link below, pick the things you want to do, go for your life, live your dream. Thank you so much, Jocelyn, for coming on to the podcast. We're definitely going to have you on again once your, your certification launches. I, I have a lot of questions actually that I didn't want to ask you the podcast, but then I'll ask you, like, when you come to my house— I just don't want to put you on the spot, and we didn't talk about that stuff ahead of time, but I have like a lot. I'm a theologian. Like, I'm someone that likes to like study things. Like, I want to study all the— like, I've always been really fascinated with religions. And so, yes, I study like the juxtaposition of different things and like how, how things came about, apart, and like what's myth and what's like actual reality, and like I'm— I have a lot. There's a lot. Yeah, I want to talk to you about so much stuff.

We'll do a deep dive conversation in person. Yes, yes.

I can't wait till you come to my house. Anyhow, thank you everybody for listening to the podcast. Do all the things like subscribe, share, you know, even if you never buy anything from me at all ever and you're just like in my Facebook group that's free, you're— you're— you listen to the podcast, you share it, whatever, like all that stuff has value. It means something too. Like the energy exchange doesn't have to money, you know, like that's not what, that's not what it's about, you know, but, um, that's why I do all this content for free, you know, but at the same time, if you want us to build out your funnels and do the work for you, we get paid for that. Just, you know, it is, that's how the world works. So, you know, my mortgage company doesn't take avocados. Wouldn't it be great if it did? Maybe not. I don't know. Anyhow, everyone, thank you so much for listening to the podcast and I look forward to seeing you in the next episode.