141. Better Communication With Ron Nussbaum

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I've found a passion for serving the construction industry a lot more than working in the industry and that that to me has been amazing. It's one of the reasons I do the podcast now and the reason why we can have conversations like this.

Welcome to Professional Builders Secrets, the podcast for building company owners wanting to grow safely and securely. I'm your host, Will Blunt, and today I'm joined by Ron Nussbaum from Construction Champions Podcast and the founder of Builder Comms. Ron, welcome to the show.

Will. It is great to be here and thank you for having me.

I was saying your your last name.

Off air and got it right every time, but I think I messed it up.

Oh, I think it was pretty. I mean, Ron Nussbaum, it's. I think you did a pretty good job, but you were hitting grand slams. But one thing I found is I can, when I'm doing my podcast, I can kind of psych myself out when it's a name that I can say it, but then I get like in my own head.

Yeah, for sure. It's exactly what I just did.

All good.

But really happy to have you on today, Ron. Love your podcast. You're doing some great work there. So for anyone out there that's into podcasts, highly recommend checking that out, but also really enjoyed to get to know yourself and Builder Comms a bit more recently. So can you give me a bit of a background on what led you to start Builder Comms and what it's all about?

Yeah, absolutely. And to get there we kind of have to get to my origin story of how I even ended up in construction. And I got out of the marine Corps in 2011 and I was trying to figure out what do I do next and I saw this foreman in training ad and I want to apply. It took me like two weeks to apply because I had no construction experience. But there was something that called me to it. I applied, I ended up getting the job and that was the start of me falling in love with the construction industry. I've done everything from running the jackhammer, being A laborer on a crew to run in the company and you name it, in between throughout the last 13 years. And there was one thing I could always pretty much guarantee that I would deal with. Now we were doing eight figures, 100 plus employees, a lot of projects. So I dealt with a lot of customers and I got tired of dealing with ones that were aggravated. And I, I really pinpoint this to this one conversation I was having in this driveway. Not I wasn't really having a conversation, I was more having a conversation towards me was happening. I know we all know what that's like to be in a customer's driveway. And I had six employees there and this customer is just laying into me. And the whole time I was just thinking, none of this has anything to do with me. Like I was not involved in anything that this person's upset about. I understand why they're upset, but it should have all been able to be avoided. And I never wanted to, I never wanted to be in that situation again because for me it had always been like I was fine getting my butt reined. Like that's just kind of part of it. Like everything's not always going to go perfect no matter how good you try to do something. But having employees around, I looked at it differently and I really dove into like, why not just myself, but why does the construction industry really have a bad reputation when it comes to customer service or customer experience? And I dove into that and my main takeaway was it was very, very rarely the work and it was very rarely the guys is it came down to communication breakdowns. It was the wrong people talking to the wrong people, a lack of documentation happening that the customer could see or your team could see. And I sat down the path of like, how do I fix this? And one night I'm laying in bed and it hit me, I was like, if I just had software that got all the communication, the documents, the pictures, all in one place and organized it per project so it was no longer on cell phones or emails or my favorites, the stack of paperwork sitting on somebody's desk and organized it for a project, it could, it could change the construction industry. And I got out of bed, I put her out. I call it a haphazard at best PowerPoint presentation. One day maybe like, I'll do a demo of that. When we, when we've hit our strides and major success and everybody's like, man, I can't believe where this came from. And I show them because I'm a non technical tech founder, like, I'm A marine that was in construction and now I own a software company out of building a need to fix. To fix a major headache that the industry has. So you can imagine what that PowerPoint presentation looked like. But that's what led to builder comms. I got accepted into the Tenets incubator. There was 26,000 companies that applied to that. We were one of a hundred that made it in and one of five that has actually brought a product to market. We were just at the international Builder show in Vegas, the IBS show, as a top 20 startup, and we're just rocking and rolling, man. I've found a passion for serve in the construction industry a lot more than working in the industry. And that. That to me has been amazing. It's one of the reasons I do the podcast now and the reason why we can have conversations like this.

Yeah, I can hear your passion and I think that's really important in this industry. It certainly resonate with other builders that have. That you've been through a lot of the journey that they've been on as well to kind of try and solve this problem. But I'm sure there's plenty of builders out there nodding along when you were telling that the driveway story.

We've all been there. We all have like that one interaction with a customer that just sticks with us. And it's four different reasons. It could be because, like, just what they were saying or the emotions that you felt out of that, or like, for me, it was having other people around and just realizing, like, we can do better. Like, we felt we were really good at that aspect. The thing is, is we were just better than those around us. And the bar is really low when it comes to customer experience in the construction industry. So it doesn't take much to be like, better than everybody else, but to be at that caliper where it's something you don't have to worry about anymore. You have to be willing to go above and beyond. And sometimes I say it's the elephant in the room because a lot of times, like, we didn't address it because you're better than everybody else at it. So, like, why do we need to address this? But, like, our customers are saying something different As a construction industry, it's one of their biggest pain points. It's one of the biggest reasons why construction projects go south is because of communication breakdowns. Whether it's with your customers, with your subs, or just internally. It just happens. And we just as an industry have to say we understand that is broken and we can do better.

Yeah. Communication is a complicated topic. So I think I want to dive a little bit more into the nuances of that in a moment because there's probably a reason that this problem hasn't been solved. Construction has been around for a long time and so is software. But I'm interested to hear about how you guys are approaching it and solving it. But before we dive into that, what are some of the things that happen if poor communication goes on in a construction project?

So one of the biggest things that ends up happening is the amount of rework or go backs. It's something that we don't track enough to really understand what it cost us. But when you start to think about how many jobs do you have sitting on AR that are not collected, that you have to send a crew out to do a day's worth of work to clean stuff up so you can collect that, what is it costing you from a perspective of lost opportunity and that amount of rework? And number two is that reputation. I really say communication is a silent killer for your reputation because it's not something that you're necessarily going to know that the customer wasn't happy with it, or they weren't satisfied, or they didn't feel like you communicated well. It's one of those things where they're going to go tell whoever asked them, hey, who did you, your kitchen remodel? Who, who built your house? They're like, yeah, ABC contractors. Were you happy with them? Yeah, yeah, no, like I don't know if I'd hire them again. You know, I felt the communication was a little lackluster. And that right there is just a silent killer is because they're just out. They might not necessarily have anything bad to say about you, but they don't have anything great. And it's because you really didn't leave them with this at some point experience. And that experience for the homeowner really comes down to how well can we communicate the entire process to them. And it's not necessarily about a software, it's about being able to say, this is what's going to happen throughout this process and continue to communicate that with them so they understand. Because most people that are building a house or doing a renovation have never done it before. They don't even know what to expect in the process. And we just kind of figure out, throw our hands up and go into it with them and we never really communicate any of that. So for me, it was always that. It was the fact that I'm sending guys out to do more work, to redo stuff and finally collecting money. And I'm losing lost opportunity. Plus, I'm burning a day's worth of labor for a few guys to be out there. And then it's that customer reputation.

Yeah. I was just trying to dig up an article we published on our blog a little while back about the true cost of project delays. And Basically an average $750,000 build can cost around $670 every day it's delayed. May not sound like a lot in isolation, but, you know, even a week's delay can be thousands of dollars off the bottom line for a builder, which starts to really build up.

We've. We've estimated it through a couple different articles. Not. Not us. This has been through other industry experts, and it's estimated that the average construction company, it costs them $420,000 a year. If you have a hundred employees or less in rework, it costs the construction industry. I think it's just over $30 billion. And they link all of this back to communication breakdowns between the team, between the client, between all the stakeholders in the project. And that's a lot of money. I mean, when you're talking, you said 610 or $670.

Yeah, day. That's just for an average $750,000 build per day. Yeah.

Yeah, day. I mean, 10 days, you're at seven grand. That's 1% of that job. I mean, what's the margins?

Yeah.

Like, can we afford to eat 1% of a job? Like, no, we can't.

Yeah. That's crazy. So how. How have you gone about trying to solve this problem with builder comms? What portions of communication are you. Yeah. Helping builders deal with better.

So it's.

We.

We work as air traffic controllers. That's one of the best ways for me to describe it because we get rid of all all the emails, all the text messages, all the. All the different channels, the slack channels, the WhatsApp, and we get everything in one simple place and organize it per project so there's no more saying, hey, I missed your text message, or your email is on somebody else's email account and I don't have access to it. We get it all in one place. We provide transparency for that, for that client, for the team, just by getting it in one place and organizing it so everybody knows, hey, if I have a picture, if I have a document, if I'm saying anything about this project, I'm going in here into builder comms, going into that project that I'm Assigned to. And I'm putting that information in there. So we start to create just this data center for these key parts of the project that for the construction industry. We've kind of been left in the stone age when you think we're still out there for the majority of us signing paper contracts and just putting them in a filing cabinet instead of taking pictures of them and uploading them into something, some form of technology. So we start to become that hub to get that communication in one place, to get those documents in one place, those pictures, everything that has to do with that project. And then you can invite your customer in there so your customer can be involved in that as well. And that's how we truly fix it.

So you've got, it's almost like a repository, like a Google Drive or a Dropbox style place for each project where you can store files but then also have a community like a dialog in there as well, which would I guess replace email. Is that kind of the idea?

Yeah. I like to say if Slack in Dropbox had a baby for the construction industry, that would be builder con. Like because we're just, it's simple. I like, I like to tell people, it's like when you look at me like I'm not some rocket scientist programmer, I, I built something very simple to use and I learned to say no early on to my developer because like we don't need anything super complex. Like that's where most of my beef with construction software starts to come in is like they build stuff so complex that like you have to hire somebody on your staff to understand how to use it. Or like if you don't have a kid that's 20 years old, you can't use Slack because there's nobody there to set it up for your company. And God forbid if he goes somewhere else and everything's in Slack, like so all I did was take all these different aspects of stuff that's used and I just molded them together into something very simple for the construction industry. And like that's all market is, the construction industry.

Yeah, yeah, it's a great approach. I mean most software companies, startups get caught up with trying to build every feature under the sun and then to your point, you need a consultant to help you implement it.

And I think that's because the constraint, like it's so fractured the construction industry when it comes to technology. It's like so it's not, it's not that people's like heart is in the wrong place. They're just trying to solve Everything. And that's. You can't. You really have to focus on what you're going to be good at. Like we made the decision that this is what we're going to be good at. We're going to be really good at communication. There's a couple of things that came into play with that, with the documents and the pictures. We found out we're really good at this as well. Like we're not just a Slack. Like we're a Slack and a Dropbox because we have this data collection point, but we're still only focused on that. Like we're not going out and saying we're gonna build out a CRM or we're gonna build out management software. We build out integrations into other people's software that does that stuff really good and decided to make partnerships instead of building something that's probably going to be lackluster because let's face it, the bigger you get, the more broad, the more the entire solution suffers. And then also, like, this is what I'm passionate about is going and fixing this. So we might as well stick with that, have that passion, have that excitement and truly be good at it.

What are some of those integrations that.

You mentioned there with other softwares?

Yeah, so we're, we're pretty much integrated with anybody that will allow us to integrate with them. So I mean, you can think some legacy players have closed APIs. That's, you know, that's their dealio. I believe in decentralizing construction software because that's what my customers tell me they want. So, so we have went out and built out the capacity to integrate with anybody and anything that will allow us to integrate with them. Because here's what I hear from builders almost every day, multiple times a week, is we want to have software in our business, but we want to be able to pick and choose what works best for that. So like I understand builder comms isn't going to be for everybody, but there's going to be people that it's for and the same with other softwares. And what they want is they want us all to work together. They want builder comms to talk to this CRM or this project manager software or say this accounting software and they want vice versa. So they want this alicante worded. And I believe in being part of that. And that's where, like I said, instead of going out and building broad lackluster solutions, you start getting people that are really focused on building solutions to specific pain points at the construction industry faces. And then all of our software taught to other and that right there is how I see the future of construction.

Software being just from a functionality perspective.

How, how is like permissions organized? For example, you got contractors, you've got your clients, you've got your internal staff as well for every project. How are you making sure that the right information is getting delivered to the right person?

Yeah. So we're completely web based for contractors and builders and roofers and you name it. If you're in the construction industry, we're web based. We also have a mobile app for homeowners to download. That's homeowners wanted an app, they wanted something sexy. And what we want construction industry is just something that works.

Yeah.

So from in there you can set all the different admin settings. From issuing somebody on a project as a foreman or a crew guy or for the different communication channels from sales to service to general project management to scheduling, you can set up these admin settings so you control as being the owner of the company who sees what and what does that look like? And that will continue to get better as we continue to build this and bring features on is you know, we're, we're creating a public roadmap for like what does product development look like for us to where people will be able to go on there and upvote features and talk about stuff they like, what they don't like, what they would like to see. And you know I, I do a lot of these demo cards, I do a lot of the sales cars. I have a team that does that as well. But we take notes and we take feedback and figure out what, what would make our product better. That's how we got to the integrations piece was like a lot of people, a lot, a lot of our customers and were telling us is like we really like your software and we want it to work with other softwares. What can you do? Well, we figured that out and we'll continue to listen because my commitment to the construction industry is to put, to put together and put forth the best communication and documentation to the construction industry can have. And I don't work in the day to day field anymore. So all I can go off of is all of my users that are actually out there utilizing it to tell me hey, this is like real time in the field. This is what we're seeing, this is how we think this could be implemented. And that's why we're going to open up our product roadmap because we feel like we're, we're builders, like we're builders and we're fixers. Like that's the construction industry. So why not invite those people in to be part of the process? I'm not going to build anything crazy. Like I'm, I'm honest about that. Like don't come on there and tell me we need to build a scheduling feature and an accounting feature and stuff because I'm going to be able to point you in the direction of other software that does that really good. Yeah, I'm not going to build that out. But when we're like, hey if, let's move this button or do this. So I want these kind of admin settings or I want to be able to say people can see this or do that. We're going to put, we're going to put that in a position where, you know, it's not like open source code and stuff, but it's open, where people can go on there and say this is what we like, this is what we don't like. And we're going to post our product roadmap out there so people can say, oh, we want this feature faster than others. Because like I said, I'm no longer out there working in the field. And what I foresee the vision of this, I could be right or wrong. So we're going to put it out there and we're going to get the industry's feedback and we're going to continue to build the product with the industry in mind.

Yeah, it's a great way to do it. And I mean it sounds like you're truly listening to your customers, which is.

Which is powerful for the builders out.

There that are still using a paper based system. Like you mentioned, they got the big for communication, the big pile of documents on their desk. What would you suggest to them about moving digital?

So 70% of my users were one of the first technologies they implement in their business. And that was a learning curve for me because that's not what I expected at all. But then I reevaluated and was like, well, we build a simple solution to solve a pain point. Why wouldn't it appeal to people that don't use any other technology? So what I would say is the industry has forever changed. When I was out in Vegas, I kept hearing the same thing from people, is that I don't use any technology, but I understand I need to or else I'm not going to eventually have a business like we're to that point in the industry that if you're not currently using any technology, it's going to Become really hard to compete and continue to grow your business. So anything that you can start to implement in your business is, it's no longer necessarily giving you an edge against your competition. It's almost like becoming the standard. Now I say that when at the same time there's more people out there that use no technology in the construction industry than does.

Yeah, that's crazy.

But people are starting to feel the percentage that 55, 60% of people that don't use any technology, they're starting to feel like if they don't start to use technology, it's going to greatly impact their business. So I say go out there and find stuff that you're comfortable with. You don't there. There's so many great softwares that, that serve specific problems, and that's how I would start implementing technology. You know, great big solutions can be great if you're willing to take the time and implement them and do all this stuff. And, you know, you might have had a history with technology, but I would pick an area of your business that you want to change and go find the simplest piece of software that changes that. So if that's how you do your invoicing or accounting, or if that's how you do your scheduling, or if that's how you do want to do your communication, I would go out and I would find the simplest piece of software, get on some demos or just try it out. One of the great things about construction software is a lot of it's becoming able to just go out and take it for a free spin. Like that's how our software is. That's how I think it all should be. Go out there and test it out. Maybe not even get on a demo, just try it out and see if it works for you. But that, that's what I would do. Because what ends up happening is if you go out and you jump on some big piece of software, you're not going to utilize it all. It's going to be a lot more expensive to start out that way than what you're probably going to get out of it. So I would figure out, I would sit down and I'd write out, hey, here are the couple things that I think we really need to change in our business. And then I would hit Google and I would figure out what software is out there that can help you be better. Because I believe that software is a tool that should work right alongside of us to make us better at what we do. It's not that the software should just do it so you don't have to do should just be a tool that makes you better. It's just like having that brand new Milwaukee drill. It's better than the last one that you had. It makes you more you, makes you better and more effect of at your job. A piece of software should do the same thing. So figure out what are those things in your business. Is it that stack of paperwork that's sitting there? Is it all the emails and text messages? Is it a paper calendar that you've been using for years that your crews don't, they're, they don't even know where they're going without coming into the office and looking at that. And then just find that simple solution for it and go out there and give it a try and it's not going to be perfect. It's just like anything, there's going to be a learning curve. The first time you built your first house, it didn't go as smooth as it's going right now. And that's going to be the same thing with software. And I think people don't look at, people look at it as it should, just immediately be great and easy. But every project you're going to get better at utilizing it. It's going to be better working alongside you for that project. So every time you have to understand that you're just going to get better and better and it's going to grow with you. And once you get confident in that piece of software, you go back, what's that list? What's the next thing we can solve with some software and start bringing this stuff in. And the next thing you know you're this well oiled machine running off of technology. In 12 months ago you didn't have any. It's doable, I see it done.

Yeah. I think something that resonated that you mentioned earlier as well, like the consumer's expectation is to have technology as well and communication, regular communication from the contractors and builders. So having you know the technology which essentially does that for you rather than needing to do all the phone calls and the text messages and everything like you mentioned before, if they're getting regular updates about the build automatically through software, that's going to immediately save you a ton of time and also make it a better experience for the client.

Yeah, I mean just think about your guides being able to go on there and say, hey, we're on the way to the job. And instead of going to a text message or an email and somebody might never get it, push notification comes directly to that homeowner's phone and they see that, that's, that's the environment that I love. That's one of the things that we built with builder comms.

Yeah, yeah. Really powerful. So what role do you see technology playing in the future of communication and construction? Where's it going next?

Where is it going next is we have built the tool when it comes to it. So like communication is, we look at it as such a complex problem. When it's really simple, it really is. We just confuse it. And how we confuse it, we get too many moving pieces in there. It's like the, the tell the old telephone chain game where you tell somebody something and then they would tell somebody something by the end of it, it's something completely different. That's how communication happens when it's not happening in one singular place where everybody has access to it. And I know we've all, we've all felt that where you told somebody to do something and then you showed up a week later and the fence is 10 foot high, not 6 foot. And the customer was thinking it was going to be 12. And you're like, what exactly happened? Just because every time that communication happened, it got out again, control. So we built a tour to fix that. And where the future of that goes is we're going to start incorporating AI in there to make us better communicators. And what I mean by that is have the ability to help us craft better messages. Like, I'm not the best typer, like I, I, I'll throw text messages and stuff to your others, send them off. And I had, I had this vision with builder comms when AI started coming out is like, what if we had the ability to just hit a button and it, it fixes all messages because we already do text talk. So you say your message in there and then you hit a button, it cleans it up and then you send the best message you could possibly craft over to your homeowner. And then also bringing in red light, green light, yellow light into that communication to where off a temperament you can tell like, is this customer becoming escalated or, or is this becoming an upset customer prior to stuff that we can even pick up on. So I think the future for communication is once you have a tool to be able to communicate effectively, the future is having the ability to just be the best communicator possible without really having to change a whole lot, without having to go, like, we always talk about communication and like, you need to go to these classes, learn to be a better commun, communicator, not that I'm anti that I just think with technology now is, like I said, I build software to work alongside the construction industry. I build software to make them better at what they do. And that's the future for communication is with the ability of AI and stuff that's coming down the pipeline is not to automate it, but just to be able to say like, this is the best possible message Ron Nussbaum could send. Like, to me, that's powerful to be able to say, I put Terrell this message. It has some spelling errors in here, the grammar is wrong. I hit a button. It fixes that and it says it in a way, it delivers it how my customer would want to hear it. That's the future of communication.

And I think to your point earlier, there is still a lot of builders out there that aren't embracing technology in their companies. And the time for that is probably coming to an end in the near future.

Yeah. Because it's going to be what the customers expected. You know, one of them, one of the. I have all kinds of learning curves for myself. And one of them was, is, I built this originally with the thought that this would be. Once a project becomes a project, you start to use builder comms. And then I had guys utilizing it and they're like, you're wrong. And I said, oh, what do you mean I'm wrong? And they're like, this is a sales tool. And I said, well, explain some more. Tell me, tell me about that. They're like, here's what we're doing is when we go into a house, we're telling the homeowner or the prospective person that we're going to build a house for that. Hey, we understand communication is a problem. We understand it's a concern of yours. We use builder comms. You're going to get an email, download an app. All of our communication for this project is going to go right through there so you don't have to worry about it.

It.

And they're like, nobody else is in there telling the customer this. So the customer is concerned about communication. And they're like, because we're using builder comms, we're using it in the sales process as a differentiator. I was like, that's ingenious. But that's across the board with software. Like homeowners are expecting, if I'm going to spend 750,000, a million dollars, $2 million to build a house, they're expecting you to not hand them a legal pad with some stuff scribbled on it. And Say, hey, I need a 20% deposit. We're just not in those times anymore. That's just not how things work. And that's why we have to start to embrace some of this technology as a construction industry.

Yeah, it's a great way to stand out in that sales process to. I mean, if you've got regular and clear communication with a prospect that's going to help you stand out to other builders that, you know, take several days to get back to them or don't provide the same amount of detail.

Yeah. And, you know, in the back of their mind, customers are sitting there wondering, is this guy going to take my money? And I'm never. Am I never going to hear from him ever again or her? And unfortunately, like, that's something we have to overcome as an industry and we have to fix that in. One of the best ways to overcome it immediately is just say, hey, I understand this is a concern, and address it with anything. With any concerns that your customers have, you should be addressing them before it's a natural concern or before it becomes an issue, provide the solution and see how many more deals you end up closing because of that. Because they remember that. Because the next guy comes down the road that's like, hey, I'll get you something sent over here in the next couple days, give or take weeks, whatever it is, I'll get you something sent over. And they're, like, left wondering, well, is he, like, going to drop it off? Is he going to text it? Is he going to email it to us? What. What does that look like? But with you, they know you're going to send them that contract or that proposal directly through builder comms. So atlant, they get it. They know where it's coming. They all. They know. All it's up in the air is the timeline. Is it going to be three or five days before you get that to them and then you can deliver it?

Yeah. Really cool. All right, Ron, really appreciate you coming on the show today and sharing all your insights on communication and what builder comms is doing. Sounds really exciting. And I'm sure there's plenty of builders out there that are ready to jump on for a free trial, which you guys offer. But any final advice you'd give the listeners about improving their communication in their companies.

Yeah, absolutely. So my. My biggest thing when it comes to communication is we just have to understand that everything everybody says is an emotional response to whatever's happening. And the sooner we can understand that as owners, as foremen, as project managers, the. The quicker we can overcome escalated situations, ejections, pain points throughout the installation process. So never forget that. It's nothing personal, it's an emotion they're feeling. Probably because we did not do a good enough job on the front end of educating them on the process. And it's our job to work them through that emotion and get to the end result, which is a happy customer with a beautiful home that they love. So that's, that's always my big thing I like to leave people with is like communication is our emotions and it just comes down to being able to be the one that can control those.

Yeah, Great advice.

Well, for any members of the association of Professional Builders, Builder Comms are a rewards partner. So check out the listing which we'll.

Share in the in the show notes.

And highly recommend checking out Construction Champions.

Podcast, which is Ron's podcast if you get the chance to But Ron, thanks so much for coming on Professional Builder Secrets today.

Awesome man. Thank you for having me and it was an awesome time.

Very good.

Also, a big thank you to our listeners wherever you are in the world. If you like the show today, please subscribe to Professional Builders Secrets on your platform of choice. And if you're feeling generous, leave us a review. But until next time, have a great day. This episode of Professional Builder Secrets is brought to you by Apparatus Contractor Services. Apparatus provides full scope, end to end QuickBooks, Precision Construction accounting and CFO services for residential builders. If you feel like you can't completely trust your weekly and monthly financial reports or you feel like you're flying blind, Apparatus Root will rebuild and operate your QuickBooks accounting system and give you precision construction accounting capability you can trust. Learn more@apparatusteam.com or on the APB Rewards Partner Directory.

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