149. Mentoring Your Team With Rick Moore

This episode of Professional Builder Secrets is brought to you by Apparatus Contractor Services. Apparatus provides full scope, end to end QuickBooks, Precision Construction accounting, and CFO services for residential builders. If you feel like you can't completely trust your weekly and monthly financial reports or you feel like you're flying blind, Apparatus Route will rebuild and operate your QuickBooks accounting system and give you precision construction accounting capability you can trust. Learn more@apparatusteam.com or on the APB Rewards Partner Directory.

One of our core values is always do the right thing, even when no one else is looking. And think about that, right? Where's the. Where's productivity slipping on your team when you're not around, when somebody else isn't around?

Welcome to Professional Builder Secrets, the podcast for building company owners wanting to grow safely and securely. I'm your host, Will Blunt, and today I'm joined by executive coach Rick Moore. Rick, welcome to the show.

Hey, thanks, Will. Always a pleasure.

Yes, always love having a chat with you. In fact, we got chatting so much before we press record that we almost had a full podcast episode then.

Indeed. Always. Great. So thank you.

Today we're talking about mentoring team members. Can you provide your perspective on that topic to start things off?

Yeah, yeah, definitely. You know, I've done some previous coaching, obviously in some other areas, and I was very, very fortunate to be included in a workshop hosted by a fellow by the name of Greg Thompson, who's written a book called the Master Coach. And, and this book is about the coach as leader of a business, not the coach such as me that, you know, you would hire an executive coach. Greg's concept is, as leaders, as business owners, there's a coach in all of us and that it's incumbent upon us to foster that within our group, within our teams, to make sure that we are advancing people through the process. And one of the things that I found really interesting, and I'll just read it directly from Greg's book here, he said that Gallup did a poll that showed as few as 13% of employees described themselves as truly engaged in the workplace. Right. And so from that, he, he, you know, that's, that's where he developed this whole idea of are we doing enough as owners, as senior managers and leaders to, you know, to foster the people that are, that are working, that are showing up every day. It's important that those people are engaged and feel like they've got a purpose. So, yeah, just a really great topic and love to talk about it.

What impact does that lack of engagement have on a building Company.

Well, if I had to say that, lack of engagement, if you've got people showing up at work where, you know, it's just, it's just a job, you know, they're just going to collect a paycheck and go in their day to day if they're not fully engaged, especially on a job site, how, you know, dangerous productivity, you know, may not, may not be there. Frequent mistakes. We all know, certainly on a job site mistakes are just, you know, they're, they're the killer. Right. When we do our pricing for profit, we know exactly what a day's delay on a job is costing the building company. And so, yeah, frequent mistakes, you know, if they're uncertain about what their actual day to day job is. And that might sound odd, but 13% of people feeling, you know, truly engaged in work, that tells us that there is a lack of true knowledge about what the expectation is in your job every day. You know, I always said that, you know, we should have leadership in every role. You know, from the loading dock to the executive office, there should be a sense of leadership in your role. And how do you get that? By knowing exactly what, what your role and doing it well contributes to the overall health of the business. And you know, if you've got people that are unhappy, they, they hesitate, they don't take initiative, they, they're not engaged with the rest of the team. Perhaps, you know, that could just be that they just don't have clear and concise, clear, concise idea about what it is that their job entails. So with that, you've got to set very clear key performance indicators for every job and have those conversations, listen to these people and just understand, you know, each individual is an individual. They're all looking for their purpose. Right. And as leaders, we have to foster that.

You touched on a couple of them there in terms of the behaviors that may be showing from an employee that is disengaged or not being properly mentored. Can you dive into that a little bit more? How can builders notice if they probably have a team that should be getting more support and mentoring?

Yeah, well, you know, hope this, this is the best one where an employee might at least be asking a lot of questions, showing a lot of uncertainty in their actual role because at least they're not hiding their confusion and their uncertainty. They're actually asking. So as a leader, like, let's embrace that. But yeah, if you are seeing just a general lack of productivity, this isn't the other thing. You know, we always say you got to know your Numbers, you've got to be tracking things. If there's a lack of productivity, you know, people come to us as coaches all the time and they. You often say to them, okay, what. What area of your business do you feel needs the most work? And whatever they say to us, you know, I'm not saying they don't know their business, but we can often trace it back to a people problem. And a people problem isn't always that you've just hired the wrong people. People problem could be that you just don't have the proper systems in place. You're not doing training, you're not communicating with your. Your staff, and you're not fostering that team environment. It's. It's a key element of.

Yeah, it almost sounds. It almost sounds a little bit like a silent killer. It's. It's not on the surface, but it's. It's all happening in the back.

Yeah, it is. And, well, you know, one of our core values is always do the right thing, even when no one else is looking. And think about that, right? Where's productivity slipping on your team when you're not around, when somebody else isn't around? And why would an employee feel like they, you know, they don't necessarily have to do their job properly? Um, you know, I always said that if you've got dissatisfaction in your workforce, the only beneficiaries of that are coffee shops, right? Because people go off on their break and they sit at a Starbucks and complain, right? So you might want to really look at the productivity, be suspicious of somebody that's not engaged. You know, find out, have a chat, right? We've got. Got this beautiful opportunity to sit and listen to people and, you know, we gotta take advantage of that. Daily huddles are a magic wand for business owners. That is where if you can bring your team together on a daily basis, keep in mind, these daily huddles could be two minutes long, right? Or no more than 20 minutes. You ask two questions. What are you working on? What are you stuck on? And boy, when you bring a team together, that person that's stuck, that might be afraid to ask, if you're not having daily huddles, you know, they might just be reticent to bring it up and they're, they're sitting there worrying about it and they can't figure something out, you bring that forward in a daily huddle. It brings your team together. Because if somebody says, you say, what are you working on today, Rick? And I say, I've got three things, you know, A, B and C, are you stuck anywhere? Yeah. On the B project I am stuck. I can't figure this out. And somebody else on the team very likely knows it or somebody on the team might be not particularly busy in what they're doing. They're able to jump in and help. So we've used them daily huddles. We use them here at apb, which is great because we're in four different countries, but I've used them in my other jobs as well and I just find that that is a key factor in bringing everybody together. And boy, what are you feeling about that team mate of yours that offers to help you on something, right. Suddenly you've got got yourself a friend, right? So.

And the alternative is someone might stew on an issue that they've got or something they're stuck on for days or weeks at a time and then never even bring it up. And that has a larger impact than what you really want in your business.

It really does. I think, you know, human nature is that we want to solve things ourselves and you know, depending on the nature of the problem. What if it is one of those problems that they just, they just never get it done but you're not checking in. Maybe the first time you get an opportunity to see whether that job was done or not is, you know, at the end of a quarter or sometime long after it's become a problem and it didn't get done. So, you know, we, we can really improve the workplace for everybody, the overall productivity by just making sure that people understand there's, you know, the old cliche, there's no stupid questions. We don't punish mistakes. So don't, don't be afraid to tell us if something's gone wrong. Like, you know, be, be proactive. Right. You can't. We've got to celebrate the wins. But we don't want to over punish mistakes and make people afraid, so afraid of making a mistake that they don't, they don't even engage in, in it because they might make a mistake. So obviously there's some mistakes that can't be tolerated but you don't want people running, you know, coming to a job where they're afraid to express themselves and.

And yeah, particularly, particularly important in home builds. Right. Like if there's a small mistake that someone doesn't feel comfortable bringing up and trying to solve with, with their mentor, then, and that gets swept under the rug, that can have a real domino effect on the build, the quality of build and then problems beyond the build. Everything like that.

Yeah. Without question. And, you know, you can, you can do a lot. One of my clients brings in the suppliers, say Benjamin Moore paints, I think was one window. Companies brings them in because they will actually come in and train your employees. And it's a game changer for him. He can even use that in his marketing that they are certified in those areas of that product or that service. So that's another way to do it. And it doesn't cost him anything to bring those people in. They want that.

That's interesting. So that's another way to look at mentoring. I mean, you've got mentoring from the business owner or the. Or the manager, but then you're saying there's other ways that you can have mentoring from suppliers as well.

Yeah. You know, first we want to talk about, you know, obviously the leader as being the person that when we talk about systemizing your business, you know, we say you've got to get the information that's in your head. You've got to get out of your head and down on paper. And the, you know, the idea behind that is that if we hold that all inside, we're robbing the people that work for us of that knowledge. They crave that knowledge from us. You know, don't be afraid of sharing the knowledge that you have. You know, they're not going to go take your knowledge and go start a computing business. And even if they did, what a compliment to you. Right? So, you know, you've got to get that out. You've got to share it to the extent that you can bring in outside people to help. It doesn't have to be that you're bringing in, you know, a motivational speaker or anything like that. It just, just, you know, bring in people that. Or ask others on the team. We did an exercise in that workshop. I was talking about where we all coached each other and, and Greg Thompson talks about that, that every member on the team, because he thinks there's a coach in everyone. Sometimes it's a great idea to just sit down, listen to the person across from you, and just see if you can offer any. You don't have to have all the answers. Right. Listening is a great tool.

That's a good lead in to my next question, which is what makes a good mentor?

A listener, for sure. Somebody that is open and giving about knowledge that they have. You can't. The way that you express it as a mentor, it needs to be expressed in a way that is not. You don't want to be talking down to people. You know, what I Mean, you want to just be really open with it, really encouraging. You know, if you're. Maybe we all know this, but when you're showing somebody how to do something and they do it wrong, find something positive before you tell them that they did it wrong. Say that was. I love the way that you, you took, took hold of that. Now try this. Right? So great mentors are very. What would you say? They're intuitive, they, they know how to build people up and, and just, you know, get, get the, everything across by building people's confidence. So I think that that's really a key.

Talk to me about feedback a bit more. Cause that's what you touched on there with providing positive and then providing the constructive feedback. On the other side, there is that theory around the shit sandwich which is not necessarily recommended. Like positivity, negativity, positivity. And they only really remember the thing in the middle. Right. What's your take on feedback and how you can deliver it in a way which is constructive and handled well?

Yeah, I guess I kind of look at it, you know, from my, my sports coaching days where, you know, you have to get across when something isn't being done right. But you've to do that, you've got to know that you first off have described it clearly or have the ability to describe it clearly. And a really great way to, to know if you can be effective or want to be effective with the person you're mentoring is to look at disc profiles. Have everybody on your team do a disc profile. And then, you know, we're all. There's different personality types and in those disc profiles we'll actually talk about, here is how Rick at his disc profile should have conversations with Will and his disc profile. So see, I'm of the belief that you shouldn't be granted a marriage license unless you've both done a disc profile. I think it would save more marriages. The only people be against it are divorce lawyers. So, you know, just know the person that you're talking to because certain way of, of delivering a message to somebody, if they're a certain profile, it will, it won't land. And then you, you know, then we become of the opinion, oh, well, that person's, you know, never going to be a great worker for us. That's not necessarily true. Keep in mind that turnover, employee turnover is very, very expensive. I read a study that said replacing an employee with all the things, you know, time and everything considered is about 130% of an annual salary. So you definitely want to make sure that You're a hiring properly, but when you've got people on your team, just make sure that you're fostering and mentoring.

Yeah. One of our APB rewards partners contractor staffing source in North America. They actually offer a disc profile with every employee they place, I believe as part of the interviewing process. And I think they may do it just in general for their clients as well. So there's something to look at if you're not currently doing it.

Yeah, I highly recommend them. And I know here at apb, every time we have a new hire, we show a pie chart and where that person sits on the desk profile. So clearly we use it. I was thinking about, I did these business planning workshops for our members and one of the things we talk about, we talk about the story of these builders, three builders and their bricklayers. And they're all building the same wall, but they have three different perspectives. You know, one guy's kind of just doing it to pay the bills and doesn't seem overly enthusiastic. And the next guy's a little bit more enthusiastic. He sees it more as an occupation. But both of those are not overly engaged employees. Think of it as somebody had offered them $5 more an hour and they, they probably leave those guys because that's where they're at. But that third bricklayer that we talk about is the one that's working the hardest. And he doesn't believe he's building a brick wall in the. The story he's building a cathedral. He's a cathedral builder. And we, we talk about the owner. And as the leader of a business, we have the ability to help people find that cathedral, find that calling in the job they do every day. So, you know, how do you, how do you get that is by doing the things we've been talking about. Keep it interesting. You know, do team building. Just share your knowledge at all points in time. And I think that, you know, you'll, you'll definitely come up with employees that will shine when you're, you're trying to, you know, they know that you've got their best interests at heart. And there's even fun ways to do this. One of my companies, one time we did a drum circle team building exercise where we had these bongos and the entire team sat around and we, you know, played these drums. There's great ways to do these things. It doesn't have to be all, you.

Know, that would have suited the musician inside you.

Yeah, yeah. And you know, the personalities that came out in that, you know, people that you would Never would have seen be very demonstrative, really end up being right. It's just, it's a neat, neat exercise to do.

So, Rick, you've talked about a number of different tactics and tips and stories, which has been really valuable. Can you consolidate some of that information into what you'd recommend a builder to do if they're trying to build out a mentoring program at their company?

Sure. I think that what's, what's really important in my mind is to first make sure that you've got a proper job description for every role and that you know what you want out of that role. What are the key performance indicators for that role? And there's a really interesting exercise that I ask people to do and that is as the leader, I want you to, you know, write down what you believe is the job description. If you don't already have job descriptions. Write down job description for every role. Ask the employee to write their job description for every role. Then sit down and compare them in a non confrontational way. Just sit down and compare them and see if there's any gaps. Right. If you go through that exercise with a team to begin with, then you're going to know, okay, how, how should we, you know, again, where are the gaps? What do we need to work on in, in a mentoring program? Is there, you know, is there ways for employees to move up, you know, for promotion in the, in the business? You know, you want to identify those things because that's a true mentoring program where, you know, if there's somebody in a role that's very, very good there, maybe they're going to be retiring in a few years and you've got this other great employee. Well, then you could start doing a shadowing kind of mentoring program. There's, it starts with the leader being willing to, you know, take some time, learn what everybody's doing in the business and then I think then that true mentoring program and what your team needs will come out.

What about measuring the success and effectiveness of that mentoring?

Yeah, you know, we are very, very big on data. You, you need to measure and know the key numbers in your business at all times. And it's not just about, you know, what money is coming in and dropping to the bottom line that doing something like that reveals. It can reveal all sorts of tidbits about where there are slowdowns in your business. You know, you can see, okay, in the fourth week of every job, you know, we've, we've got a slowdown, we've got a, our, you know, our margins Are eroding. What is that? That can give you a great idea of maybe there's some training that needs to happen there, you know, and then just keep making sure that any reporting systems you have, that people are using them and that you're checking them. Right. There's, you know, I've talked to builders before that say we've got a reporting system. I can't get my people to use it. Right. There's no point in having one if people aren't using it. It's gotta be used effectively.

That makes sense. You shared a story before we jumped on air, actually, about one builder in our elite mentoring program and the way they were distributing mentoring training and things to their team. Can you share that story and mention any other tools and technology you think could aid a mentoring program?

Sure, yeah. One of our elite builders, and he had revealed this at the retreat that we had in Fiji, was in the process, and I don't think I've got this number wrong, of recording over a hundred videos of every process and procedure in the business on video.

Right.

It just, I mean, he's putting the time in making the investment so that, you know, and what a great way of communicating because that allows you to teach. You know, when you've got a manual and you need to have a manual, everybody needs a manual to refer to. But boy, when you have, you know, you're the leader of the business on video describing something, you know, you know, his or her traits and personalities, I think that that's. I was very, very impressed with that. And it was the sheer number of these videos that he was recording that was mind blowing, but very. That is a, you know, shows why he's one of the top builders. Right. He's very progressively looking at ways of. Of making sure that his team is. Is clicking at all times.

Yeah. It's not only, I guess that's not only a mentoring thing. That's about systemization and quality control and consistency and all those things as well. Right?

Yeah, absolutely. Just. And other ways to do that. Again, you know, having frequent meetings, having, you know, not a meeting just to have a meeting, but just making sure that you're communicating. That will bring up areas that you can mentor on. Making sure that any of the reporting areas that you have, you know, at APB, we use HubSpot and it's our, you know, it's a main way for us to communicate at all times. Because we're in four different countries with different time zones. We absolutely have to have that single source of truth where we Report. So, you know, whatever, whatever systems a builder is using, make sure they're being used. Make sure that you use all the features that are available there. I think people will very much appreciate that they have got a way to record their KPIs. Nothing feels better than actually going in and being able to report that you've, you know, you've accomplished all the tasks that were set up for you. That feels great. Gives, you know, and then of course, as a leader, you gotta, you gotta reward the wins. Right. When people are. So if you're mentoring and then you see the results of that and it's positive, then you've got to celebrate that.

Yeah, that's a great point. Well, Rick, are there any final advice you want to give for builders in terms of mentoring their team members?

Well, I would like to share just this quote out of this book and I'll put my reading glasses on here, showing my age a bit here. But Greg Thompson says any place where people come to work, you will find enormous untapped potential waiting to be developed and deployed. If companies can find a way to truly unleash the full capacities of the human beings within them, they won't have to worry so much about reinventing their workplaces. Their people will do that for them. And when it comes to unleashing human potential, there is one process that has consistently proven to be more effective than any other, and that's coaching. So not only is that a shameless promotion for APB coaching, but it's also the idea that there is a coach in all of us. So you, as a leader in your business, in your building business, can be a coach and should be a coach to the people who work for you. And the benefit will be just a great, happy workplace. We know happy workplaces. Places where people, you know, get what they're doing. They. They're happy to go to work. Well, those are the most profitable and productive workplaces as well.

Yeah, it ties in nicely to what you said earlier around a large portion of the challenges that builders face are people problems.

Yeah. Yeah. We're a complicated bunch, right?

Yeah, exactly.

You know, and you know, we, we just need to, to understand each other. One of the things that we don't have to agree with everything that everybody says and or does, but we do need to listen, understand, and work to move forward. And, you know, there's no place for opinion and anger and criticism within a workplace. Right. You just, you can bring it all together. You know, we're all not just, we're all not going to hang out with each other on the weekends. But boy, we spend a lot of our lives at work. So we better make sure that, you know, we're as leaders, we're fostering that environment where people are happy and engaged and they enjoy being there.

Yeah, that's great advice. Well, sounds like that's a good place to leave it. Rick, thanks so much for coming on the show today.

You bet. Well, anytime. I appreciate it.

Also, a big thank you to our listeners wherever you are in the world. If you like the show today, please subscribe to Professional Builder Secrets on your platform of choice. And if you're feeling generous, leave us a review. But until next time, have a great day. This episode of Professional Builder Secrets is brought to you by Apparatus Contractor Services. Apparatus provides full scope, end to end QuickBooks, Precision Construction accounting and CFO services for residential builders. If you feel like you can't completely trust your weekly and monthly financial reports or you feel like you're flying blind, Apparatus will rebuild and operate your QuickBooks accounting system and give you precision construction accounting capability you can trust. Learn more@apparatusteam.com or on the APB Rewards Partner Directory.