157. Manage Projects With AI With Mitchell Kasselman

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I'd say the progress that you can make with technology, whether it's us building a software product or a builder actually incorporating AI, the progress and impact that you can have in the next 24 months will probably be twice as big, if not much higher, than it was over the past 24 years. That's how fast this type of technology is evolving. And it's almost something that you have to take ownership and harness because right, if you don't, that gap's just going to continue to widen.

Welcome to Professional Builder Secrets, the podcast for building company owners wanting to grow safely and securely. I'm your host, Will Blunt, and today I'm joined by Mitchell Castleman from Resio Software. Resio is a construction management software powered by AI, and we'll be talking about how builders can optimize their spend on.

Software to have the biggest impact on their business.

Mitchell, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me, Will.

Yeah, really great to have you on. Excited to hear everything that Resio is doing in the AI space, but also how you guys are solving some pretty big problems for builders. So thanks for coming on today.

Of course.

Let's start from the very beginning. Mitchell, can you share a bit of.

A background about how you got into the building industry and started rescue software?

Yeah, it's kind of a roundabout journey, but one that I love to share. So maybe I'll just go back to my first work experiences. I was always an entrepreneurial guy. I actually used to be a reseller on Amazon and sell goods that you could stick in a warehouse for six months and they wouldn't expire. And I was always interested in running my own tech business and kind of had a roundabout journey of consulting jobs and other jobs, but ended up in facility management software at a company called Service Channel. And that's where I first work with contractors. So I spent a lot of time with plumbers, electricians, trades really, and I helped them get jobs at retailers like cvs, Walgreens and Trader Joe's. And what I saw with these contractors was two things. One, their businesses really Had a lot of struggle without software. Having said that, the impact of a platform like Service Channel was massive in the sense of growing their revenue 20, 40, 60%. So software could have a big impact on these contractor businesses. Now Fast forward to 2022. Service channel got acquired. I was trying to figure out what I want to do next and I met Ryan, my co founder. Now, Ryan had just undergone a large remodel on his home in New Jersey. And after talking to Ryan, I heard that everything was a complete mess with his remodel. The budget was overrun, the project was delayed, and the communication back and forth with his builder was pretty poor. And so, you know, me knowing contractors, Ryan, knowing this homeowner experience, we started to think, hey, maybe there's something off with the current system that this builder is using. So we started talking to many small and medium sized builders and it felt like they were stuck between a rock and a hard place. On one hand, there was legacy tech out there to help them run their jobs, but it felt like they were spending lots of money on personnel and consultants to actually train them and run the software. And then two, there was a lot of folks we talked to that, you know, with the boom of the market in 2020 and 2021 had grown their businesses, but they had no idea how much money they were making. And things were complete chaos without any project management suite. So Ryan and I decided to create Resio, which is a simple, modern, user friendly solution for these builders. After experiencing what Ryan went through and talking to all these different folks.

Cool.

I've gone back a little in your.

Story just to ask a question here. What were you selling on Amazon?

Yeah, really? The definition we used was anything that you could put in a warehouse and it wouldn't expire. So it was a range of products from tire oil to granite countertop cleaner to computer charging carts. That was one of my favorite. And we used to actually get the returns shipped back to us. And so I lived in a house full of computer charging cards for a while.

It's such a, such an amazing marketplace. Amazon. I used to sell products on Amazon myself. So quite familiar with the ecosystem. It's just crazy, the traffic and demand you can generate for so many different products on that platform.

Yeah. And a great breeding ground to kind of like learn how to build your own business. Right. You have to move inventory very quickly. You have to understand the P and L. So it's a great learning experience for me.

Yeah. Cool. Well, love, thanks for sharing your story. Do you want to tell me a bit more about the problem you're trying to solve specifically for SEO, you touched on maybe some challenges with other software for builders and contractors out there, but yeah. Have you honed down what that core problem is?

Yeah. So think of it simply as we are trying to help builders, contractors, remodelers efficiently manage a job from start to finish. So their goals often look like, how can I make the most money? Right. How can I build the homes the fastest and how can I deliver an outstanding client experience? And the problem statement underneath those goals often depends on the builder. So if they're not using any software at all, typically that looks like, hey, we want to streamline your process and get as much as possible into a single place. So you're estimating your client selections, your budget, tracking your schedules, your vendor management under one single roof. If they're using legacy software, okay, maybe the problem statement's a little bit different to help them become more efficient and say, hey, we want to drive more adoption because we're more user friendly, we want to reduce the number of times you're entering data and we want to improve the overall user experience, whether it's with your team, your clients or your trades.

I imagine that journey is pretty challenging for builders if they're on legacy software. In fact, if they're using spreadsheets and stuff too, it's probably, probably a bit of a journey. But whatever systems they have in place, they're very entrenched in their companies. And if they're five plus years old, how do they kind of make that transition?

Yeah, I think oftentimes getting over that hump is really challenging. And I, I validate that, seeing that firsthand with builders. And I saw it firsthand when I was at Service Channel. Right. At the end of the day, I like to kind of refocus it on where do you want to go with your business. So if you think about someone with no software, okay, do I want to grow my business? Okay, that's going to require having some sort of scalable process in place that you're going to translate to your employees. Or, you know, maybe the question is, hey, do I want to have a lifestyle business? And I want to go to every single one of my kids soccer games at 4:00'. Clock. Well, great. That means we need to streamline your communication in a way that the client isn't pinging you at 5pm or your vendor isn't confused why they're on the wrong job site at 5pm so that you can go and enjoy that soccer game. But either way, right if you're thinking about the goal you're trying to get to, usually that requires some underlying consistent process. And that's where someone like us can come in and help builders get organized and put things into a single place. So oftentimes we hear that resistance and I try to like, talk to folks about, hey, where do you want to go with your business? It's more than just, hey, switching software.

On your website it says you primarily serve custom builders. Can you talk to me a bit more about the unique challenges that custom builders face compared to remodelers or large scale builders as well?

Yeah, I think the big challenge with custom builders that we found, especially in the software space, is iteration. So let's say you're going to build a custom home and maybe there's, you know, six, seven rooms that the customer is making decisions on and they're picking plumbing fixtures. Right. Plumbing fixtures could be picked across several rooms and the decision could be made early on as to, hey, I want these, this set of things, but I might change my mind and say I want to swap out a shower head or a toilet or a vanity. Right. And so that iteration requires a couple of components. One, communication back and forth between the buyer, the homeowner. Right. And the contractor. Number two, after that decision has been made. Right. That information has to flow back to the budget and then that information also has to flow back to the installer. That could be a trade or it could be a member of the in house team on the builder. And that process has to be able to be repeated and tracked on that same item 3, 4, 10 times. You know, I actually, when I started Resio, I worked with a general contractor in the Boston area and I got to observe some of their projects and I got literally 10 messages across 10 different items from a client at Saturday at 10pm and so I think these custom builders have the benefit of engagement from their clients, but oftentimes that needs to be harnessed into a clear process flow and an organized single place for communication, specifications and budget.

Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. The communication side of things with clients can get very complicated, I imagine.

Yeah. Right. And if, if you're relying on text, email, I'm, I actually tried to do this earlier today, trying to find a text from my wife. But searching, searching your phone or searching your email tends to take 10, 15, 20 minutes. And then you're like, what was I searching for in the first place? And you've lost your track and your train of thought to the amount of times that happens. Multiply it by you know, 50, 100 across selections on a custom home. Right. That can be really painful if you don't have that information stored in a clear place.

Yeah, makes sense. Yeah. Got to try and remember the exact wording used in the email or the text message so you can track it down.

Right, Exactly.

So obviously you have a specific solution for builders ratio software, but there is a lot of other construction management software there. You've got the legacy ones that some of them you mentioned previously. There's lots of new players in the space. How can builders determine what software is going to be the best for their company and provide the biggest impact?

Yeah, it's great, great question. First of all, like, it's a great thing that there are options for builders even just two years ago. The way the market looks now versus the way it looked then is incredibly helpful. And it's going to give builders more and more ways to better their business now. As I think about the process that builders take to determine, hey, what software I should pick, usually I say, hey, ask yourself a few questions first, right? Number one, why, like, why do I need software? What are the core problems I'm trying to solve? Is it communication chaos? Am I trying to eliminate duplicative data entry? Am I trying to reduce the number of software tools that I have and what are those goals? Right. Am I trying to become more efficient? Am I trying to scale my business? Then I want to know when is this pain point burning a hole in my wall? Like, do I need to solve this yesterday or is my process running relatively smoothly and is it something that I want to do a longer evaluation and maybe transition over time, over six plus months? Right. And once I have a sense of why I'm doing this and what the timeline looks like, then I can go do the what, which is explore products and I encourage folks to look at multiple products. But then you have a sense of what you're assessing across these programs. Right. And am I looking to solve client selections? Am I looking to solve a job schedule? Am I looking to move my files and my estimates into a single place? And then you're getting into these conversations with different products. And you're going to want to figure out who you're working with, Right. Are they friendly in terms of the way they interact with you? Do they provide great customer support? What kind of customer success coaching are you going to get? Who is going to be your partner? Not just someone who signs a deal and then disappears. And then, okay, now looking back at my questions, right, I know why I need this. I know when I'm going to get it, I know what products are out there and who I might be working with, then I can actually make that assessment and say this product is going to deliver the best ROI for my business.

How do you even find all the best software products for a builder, though? Is there a. Would you recommend a comparison website or something similar?

Yeah, I mean, look at Capterra is a great place to start in terms of reviews, software advice, git app. I also think a couple other places folks can go is, you know, talking to someone like the apb. Right. Giving someone who is a reputable source in the space, trying to understand their perspective and the expert in the room. And in addition to that, I think builders really trust other builders. And so, you know, I know a lot of folks are in Builder 20 groups, but the discussions there that I've heard or been fortunate enough to be a part of. Right. Are really robust around what are the biggest challenges builders are trying to solve. And so talking to your friends, talking to someone else who is looking to solve those similar problems oftentimes is a really helpful place to start.

Yeah. Funnily enough, we have a Facebook, private Facebook group for our members. And I've often seen questions in there about software though, like a builder will jump in and they'll be like, I'm thinking about moving from this software to this software. Has anyone else done it? And there'll be 10, 15 comments about people's experience and I think that's a great way to get an honest response. And every, every building company and every builder is going to have a different perspective. I guess so, 100%.

Right. And you want to just gather the perspectives that are going to align well to your goals and your pain points.

Yeah. This is probably my most exciting question to ask because AI is all the buzz at the moment, but there's a lot of jargon about, around about AI as well, and a lot of misinformation about how it's actually utilized in software. But I. You're big on trying to stay at the forefront of the industry and integrate AI into SEO software. So how are you currently doing that?

Yeah, that's a great question and it's a great topic to keep talking about. You know, I could talk about it for ages, but I'd say today, right, we really focus on building what I would call vertical AI, and this is where we kind of narrow the scope of what AI can do to specific outcomes. So vertical AI, in other words, means AI specifically designed to assist the job functions within a Vertical or industry. So in this case, right, builders. So we're looking for ways to automate the workflows of superintendents, of project coordinators, of vendors, of owners. Right. And that allows us to focus on a very targeted set of use cases that we can automate and either eliminate manual entry or eliminate the time it takes to do something. So, like, the biggest example in our product today is automating project summaries. So the best builders I know will finish at the end of a week or the end of a month, and either to the client or internally, they'll send a report of, hey, here's everything that's happened between change orders, job site updates, photos, schedule tasks. And that takes folks maybe one to two hours to write, oftentimes on their Sunday afternoon, maybe on the couch, maybe at a time when they don't necessarily want to be working. And so the results are kind of lower quality and less compliance. At Resio, we do this automatically, right? So we actually, with a single click, generate a summary from your project data. So we're taking that data, feeding it into an AI model, and then returning a summary of what has happened over a period of time and what's coming next. So you can combine your completed tasks, your job site photos, your client selections, and more right into a single report. So now I can do it more often. Right. Takes me only a minute. I can do it faster and the quality oftentimes is better because, hey, all I have to do is review the report, make a couple of edits versus write it from scratch on a Sunday afternoon.

Is there a review process for that or does it just get automatically sent to clients?

Yeah, so you'd go through and you'd edit it after you generate the initial draft. So what generates is like, hey, a template based off of what you want in that summary. And this can be set up and customized through a customer success coach. And then after you review that template output, you could say, hey, I don't want to actually discuss invoices, I'm going to take that piece off. Or I don't want to include anything about change orders. I'm just going to focus on the job site updates.

Okay, cool.

Is there any way for a builder to. And maybe this is going a bit off road, but is there any way for a builder to also verbalize something which would then be added into the update?

So, yeah, so you actually, if you pull it out in the text editor, you could voice a text. But that brings us to another use case, which I'm super excited about, which One that we're looking at next, where I see a lot of builders on job sites, they will walk around, right, and they'll do like voice to text. Either it's in a video format or just like a recording. And it's like, hey, here are the things happening on this job site, right? And as you can imagine, well, there's like 10 to dos in there across maybe 10 different trades. Well, wouldn't it be great if we could take that text, put it into to do list and send it off to those trades? So that's the type of problem that we are solving next and the type of problem that I would classify under this category of vertical AI.

Yeah, I love that. And the reason I even brought that up is because I've noticed huge productivity improvements in my work by talking to ChatGPT, for example, with the, with the application and asking it to, you know, create an email or send, you know, create a to do list or whatever it is. Because you can verbalize something in a minute, which would take you 20 minutes to write, for example, and you just give it a lot of context. So I imagine for builders that are on site, off site, moving around a lot, if they could just talk into their phone, it's going to be so much quicker.

Oh yeah. Personally I'm such a slow texter, so I can resonate and say that, you know, I use a lot of voice to text myself.

Yeah, very cool.

Okay, so just on that note, what.

Is the future looking like for SEO in terms of further developing technology and helping builders?

Yeah, so for us, we want to distinguish ourselves with our rapid pace of innovations. One of the things that we've built our business on and the pillar of how we've been able to grow so quickly. I think there's a few different areas we're really focused on. I think first is this AI piece. Right. How can I automate common workflows? I kind of talked about one of them. Another couple include extracting data from documents and faster building of estimates. And I'll kind of leave that one open ended and as we're working on some confidential stuff then two, I want to expand our suite of integrations so we want to team up with the best players that are excellent at what they do in specific areas. So for example, we recently came out with a file storage integration with the best in class file storage players, Google Drive, Dropbox, OneDrive. Third is we want to expand the number of analytics opportunities for folks and we want to give builders their data back in a way that will help Them figure out how do I become more profitable, how do I improve my sales engine, and how can I easily interact with it in a way that generates the reports I need. And finally, you know, I think for us, a rapid feedback loop is kind of the top of everything. Right. We talk to our builders constantly, and we're trying to figure out how do we continuously improve the product, how do we expand our coverage of what they do, what is the next set of things we want to build. So, for example, processing payments comes up a ton, and that's something on top of our radar to add later this year.

Yeah.

Cool. I love, I love the mentality. I mean, the builders listening to this show today wouldn't necessarily have all the context, but when we caught up prior to this, I could just tell that you were really on top of technology and wanting to continually improve the product and also stay at the forefront of the industry, which I think is going to be huge in a space which is relatively competitive. And for builders that want to find a software that is going to keep evolving with the time and make sure that they can maintain their competitive advantage as well, you know, working with a company that's got their finger on the pulse is really important 100%.

And I kind of think of it both the same for builders as it is for us. Right. I'd say the progress that you can make with technology, whether it's us building a software product or a builder actually incorporating AI, and that doesn't have to be resio, by the way, the progress and impact that you can have in the next 24 months will probably be twice as big, if not much higher than it was over the past 24 years. And that's how fast this type of technology is evolving. And it's almost something that you have to take ownership and harness, because if you don't, that gap is just going continue to widen.

Yeah. And we. We always talk about needing to stay.

On top or at least be well educated about what changes are coming in the industry, especially when it comes to this technology, because to your point, it's moving so quickly. Like, six months ago, there were so many things that we're doing today that we weren't even known about. One way for builders. Obviously, there's lots of different ways for builders to stay up to date. You know, learning, listening to podcasts, reading new articles about AI and staying on top of it, attending conferences to make sure that you're on top of things, but working with a software provider that is actually keeping their finger on the pulse as well, is obviously another way to stay at the front of the industry 100%.

And that partnership is something that, you know, we're here to build at Resio, and we can tell you, hey, within our product, beyond our product, how can you better your business?

Cool. So what advice would you give to.

Builders that are a bit hesitant about trying out a new software? Maybe they've, like some of the scenarios we spoke about earlier in the show. They've used their own systems for many years, or they've used. They're using a legacy software and they've been. It's working for them, but they think maybe something's ticking away at their mind, saying, there could be a better way to do this.

Yeah. So, I mean, two. Two frames in mind, right. There's one which is maybe like boiling it down to like a. A micro problem and say, hey, if I solve this one problem, what can it deliver for me? And so, for example, like, let's say I wanna win one more deal this year. I wanna get one more home bill versus last year. Okay. Maybe I need to produce my proposals a little bit faster or I need to get another referral from a client. Either way, solving this problem tells me I probably need to make a change to how I'm doing something, whether that's software, whether that's hiring another person or that's something else. Right. That tells me, hey, there needs to be a change and we need to make sure we understand why we're making that change. The second way I think about it is kind of the other way we were just talking about it with technology is there's kind of a gap that is widening. Right. And it's sort of that becoming the haves and the have nots in some ways, where if I am a homeowner and I'm building a custom home, million plus especially. Right. I have this expectation that my builder is going to deliver a very tailored experience to me that's interactive. Oftentimes I've seen this, you know, with many builders that are switched to residential, but also beyond where the winner of a bid ends up being the person who has the best overall system and the best overall process that can interact with that client. So if you don't have the technology there, okay, then I'm not even considered in that bid. So there's also a framing of, hey, the gap's widening a bit and it's something to think about in the near term over the next 12 to 24 months.

Yeah. I think about those project summaries even as an Example, if you can automate that so it's just consistent and you can guarantee that's always going to be delivered to your clients. Sure, that may not help you get the job initially, but the experience for your clients when they're going through the build is going to be elevated, more professional, and then they're going to talk to other people about that experience as well. And then if you're known as that really professional building company in your area that delivers that experience consistently time and time again, you can increase your margins, get those better jobs and you're more chance to win stuff.

So 100%. Right. And that reputable client experience is immensely valuable in the long term.

Cool. All right, Mitchell, so what do you.

See as the future in construction software in terms of AI and advanced technology? Get at your Magic 8 Ball.

This is I think the most exciting part for the small and medium sized folks because I actually think of AI as the great equalizer. There's a little bit of fear out there of what this can do and what it can become, but it actually levels the playing field. And maybe I'll kind of talk about what I mean by that. So in the short term, right, the things that AI is going to do is it's going to eliminate manual tasks that builders don't want to do often, right? Like it's like, hey, I don't want to spend time, you know, maybe like pretty up this job summary or I just walked a job site, I'm really tired, I had a long day. The thought of taking that and then writing a to do list afterwards is really painful. Or you know, I have a PDF here. The last thing I want to do is manually enter data that I already have. So all of these tedious activities are, I think the first wave of AI is going to eliminate. And so now as a small or medium sized builder, right, I'm going to take that energy and I'm going to put it into building and I'm going to build faster and I'm going to build a higher quality product. So essentially more houses, right, with better output. And that's going to be something that is going to elevate a ton of businesses out there that can adopt this into their process. And now in the long term, right. I think the longer term applications of AI I often think of as more data oriented where we can predict whether or not someone's going to be profitable, we can predict cash flow. So not only in the short term are we getting more efficient, but in the long term, okay, now we're Making more money. And this is going to make the small or medium sized builder more efficient and more competitive than ever before. So this is why I get super excited. And from a software perspective, we think of the same thing, right? The technologies that are out there, it could be the little guy, right? Those technologies are going to be able to build faster with less resources. And so those that can build faster with less resources are going to probably, you know, build a more modern, more powerful product than something that is maybe older with more resources. So it's the great equalizer and it's a great opportunity for all of us, whether builders or software.

Yeah, of course. And I think the scary stuff beyond all of that, you spoke primarily about project management, construction management, finances, those kind of things. The efficiencies will be enormous and continue to improve. And I think there's a bit of an unknown about what technology might actually influence the build itself in the future. Do you have an opinion on that?

Say more like, are you saying like, hey, how do we develop this? Like the home, the look and feel of the home?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, I think that's the cool part. So one of the things I actually just shared with my team, we've been playing with Dall E and we've been working on, hey, can we actually work with designers to generate interior design recommendations? So what does the home look like? What does it feel like? So, like, in theory, whether it's a remodel or a new build, okay, I have a set of plans or a 3D model and I type in, hey, I'd love to see this type of room. And all of a sudden I get this output of what the room looks like with this type of finishes and this type of materials. And I can facilitate a series of five, six iterations, which maybe take months today in a single conversation between a designer and a homeowner. So like, the things that we can do to accelerate the process and bring the things that have taken us a long time down to minutes and hours is pretty amazing.

Yeah. Cool. Well, one thing's for sure, I think if there's any builders out there that aren't utilizing the power of a lot of this new technology, then they'll quickly fall behind. So really important to stay at the forefront of the industry.

Yeah, just I think the most important part is, I think, like, whether you use it or not today, right. Is understanding, hey, this is something I need to pay attention to and I need to have a strategy for ultimately, you know, for us, right. We have a strategy specific to this type of technology just because it's so powerful.

Cool.

All right, Mitchell.

Well, thanks so much for coming on Professional Builder Secrets today. I've had a lot of fun having a chat today hearing about Rescio Software and all the work you're doing improving the technology in the construction industry. For members out there, head to our rewards directory where rescue software is a preferred partner for apb. And if you want to find out more about them, I'd recommend getting a demo. Is that probably the best place to go? Resio Software.com yeah, Resio Software.com youm can.

Book a demo with one of our sales team members. I like to pop in from time to time so maybe you'll catch me too.

I'm sure that'd be a great experience.

Cool. Well, thanks so much for coming on the show.

I appreciate it.

Thanks Bo. I appreciate you having me.

Awesome.

Also, a big thank you to our listeners wherever you are in the world. If you like the show today, please subscribe to Professional Builder Secrets on your platform of choice. And if you're feeling generous, leave us a review. But until next time, have a great day. This episode of Professional Builder Secrets is brought to you by Apparatus Contractor Services. Apparatus provides full scope, end to end QuickBooks, Precision Construction accounting and CFO services for residential builders. If you feel like you can't completely trust your weekly and monthly financial reports or you feel like you're flying blind, Apparatus Root will rebuild and operate your QuickBooks accounting system and give you precision construction accounting capability you can trust. Learn more@apparatusteam.com or on the APB Rewards Partner Directory.