158. Women In Construction With Erica Anenberg

Welcome everyone to another episode of Professional Builder Secrets. In this episode, I interview Erica Annenberg from Los Angeles based remodeling company girlfrip and construction software builder Bud. Erica is a serial entrepreneur who's working to solve some key operational challenges for small builders, especially when it comes to diversity, communication and organization of their projects. We talk about the untapped opportunity for building companies that are attracting a more diverse workforce. Enjoy the episode. This episode of Professional Builder Secrets is brought to you by Apparatus Contractor Services. Apparatus provides full scope, end to end QuickBooks, Precision Construction accounting and CFO services for residential builders. If you feel like you can't completely trust your weekly and monthly financial reports or you feel like you're flying blind, Apparatus Root will rebuild and operate your QuickBooks accounting system and give you precision construction accounting capability you can trust. Learn more@apparatus team.com or on the APB Rewards Partner Directory.

Well, you want to get shit done? Hire a woman. Like the multitasking, like how much having a woman involved in the process, especially the detail and the last part of the process, having women involved, you're going to see 10 times what maybe someone who's a male can do. As a woman, you have to outperform. So that's a huge barrier right there.

Welcome to Professional Builder's Secrets, the podcast for building company owners who want to grow safely and securely on. I'm your host, Will Blunt and today I'm joined by Erica Annenberg. Erika, welcome to the show.

Thank you. I really appreciate the time and support to be on the show.

Yeah, excited to have you on today. You've got a really interesting story to tell, so let's dive straight into it. Before we get into the nitty gritty of all the details about what we're going to talk about today, can you just give a bit of a background on what your company does and where you've come from?

Sure. Yes. So I am a general contractor and our company is Girl Flip Construction. We are doing remodels, mostly gut remodels. Bathroom, kitchen. We've been doing construction in the Los Angeles area so we'll do a lot of Adus bathrooms. Like I said, full gut remodels. So we have a full team. Superintendent, her name's Nancy, my wife Beth, who is sales and account management and a foreman and then a full crew.

It's quite unique to see a women led remodeling company or any company in the construction industry, to be honest. Has that been a bit of a different challenge?

Yes, absolutely it has. But luckily we're really in a like, I would say a great time to do this. We're seeing a lot more acceptance for diversity and when I first started it was way different than it even is now. And even just in the last few years, we're not having that kind of shock about it. I think people, you know, over the last five years have just been shocked in so many ways that like anything kind of goes these days. That's a really powerful hurdle, I think, just not having that shock because up until five years ago, you know, you'd see a woman on a job site and you would only think that she was, you know, part of the office management or a project manager. And that's just not the case anymore. I mean even with the whole DIY and just so many women who are doing the work themselves, it's everywhere, which is great for us.

The fact that it used to be a shock is not acceptable though, right?

Yeah, it did. I mean like I would be, you know, on a job site and you know, doing some of the work myself and you know, the guys would laugh or, oh, you know, she thinks she's, you know, handyman or whatever. It was just like it was dumb and it, it was. And then for years, I mean, look, for many years I've been in male dominated, you know, activities, whatever they are, be it sports. I was the first girl to make it to the pony league. In baseball, I was, you know, I mean there's just endless things that I've been doing since I was very young that all the boys were doing. I'm so happy that we're in this day and age. I mean I, as a woman who's married to another woman, just up until the last 10 years, it's been brutal. I can't even express to you what a relief it is to be in this day and age and to see the children growing up in a time of acceptance where I did not have that at all for almost everything in my life, you know. So it's beautiful.

Yeah, well thanks for sharing that. I think what I'm interested to understand though is the construction industry, whilst there has been progression like you mentioned, is still a long way behind a lot of other industries. I think we were talking about statistics in our, in our pre interview chat around other industries are up near 50% in terms of females working in the industry and construction, especially from on site jobs. You know, it's, it's 15% or lower at the moment and that's actually grown a lot in the last five years. So what does the construction sector need to do to catch up to those other industries?

Well, I think a big part of it is the acceptance and the allowance. And I think that's what we're seeing. Why we're seeing just in the last few years it going from 5% to 15% is because the overall, I'd say consciousness of society, the acceptance of people, we're seeing that people are more accepting. So just that alone is. You're going to see more people trying and doing it because there's no stigma around it. They don't feel like, oh, if I try this and don't succeed, people are going to like laugh or whatever. It's like the men are so supportive now. They really are. What like with our crews and with any of our subcontractors, they're so supportive. It's, it's incredible. Opposed to how it was just five years ago, I think that's a huge part of it. And that hurdle opening up now, now it's just really education and letting people know that this is a thing. People ask me when I say I'm a general contractor, they what? I never even knew that existed. So it's really awareness, right? Like how do you educate people? Well, awareness is the first part of it. And once you like let people know that yes, this is happening and this is a thing, then it'll just start flooding in.

Outside of acceptance from a societal point of view, what do you see the benefits for building companies in particular for having a more diverse workforce?

Well, you want to get shit done, hire a woman. You know, like you're going to like the multitasking, like and the detail and the attention to the tasks at hand. Right. I mean it's incredible like how much having a woman involved in the process, especially the detail and the last part of the process, like the rough in and all that. Yes, you need brute. I mean it's amazing the stuff that men can get done. But when you get to the finishes and the details, having women involved, you're gonna see 10 times what you're, you know what maybe someone who's a male can do.

So you mentioned before a little bit about the ridicule you get on the job site and those kind of things. What other barriers did you face as a female trying to enter this industry?

Look, anytime you're a woman and you're in a male dominated industry, you have to overperform because everyone's coming with the mentality that like, oh, she's just a girl or oh, she's just a woman, oh, she, you know, so you have already hurdles to overcome to show people that you can do it just as well. Whereas a man, he's just going to come in and he can be mediocre and no one's going to go, oh, well, he's just a man. As a woman, you have to outperform. So that's a huge barrier right there. You have to excel and outperform, then you have to. The barrier is of what other people have in their mindset. Right. So like I'll be on site and, you know, an inspector or whoever will come in wanting to talk to the general and I'll say it's me. And there's a little bit of a kind of alteration of their preconceived ideas about what it means to be a general. That has to be overcome as well. Right. So just from the get go, you're like, if it was a race, you would be five steps behind where everyone else starts.

Have you experienced that when you're actually meeting a client or something and they're, they, you can see it on their face that they're surprised?

Oh, yeah. I mean, it's a lot. I've experienced a lot. And I know a lot of women who have stories that they've experienced in the industry where they're just not treated as well or they're expected to perform better in just a lot of different cases that I know and stories I know. But yeah, I mean, I think it happens even with a homeowner and another general contractor, a male general contractor, talking to the homeowners and wanting to only talk to the husbands. The woman, let me tell you, they are running the show. Yeah, of course, I think a lot of generals now understand that and they understand who their client is, but that's just kind of how it's been in the past, how we have thought in the past of construction of people who are modeling just because it's really like a labor intensive kind of industry.

How have you handled those conversations and broken them down? Because I imagine initially it's probably quite not confronting, but frustrating to feel like you're getting put down or not as accepted as a male counterpart. So how have you handled those situations to overcome them and come out the other side?

I mean, I think it's with a team and having support. Right. You're only as good as the team behind you. So really making sure that we have a lot of experience, we know what we're talking about. Our superintendent, Nancy, is incredibly skilled. So the minute anyone is talking to her from the build team or doing anything in regards to the build process. I'm not considered really a bags on contractor. I'm handling most of the business aspects of the company and growing the company, doing everything that it takes to scale. Right. Cause that's one of the big problems with general contractors. They are bags on. How are they going to do all of the stuff that it takes to run a business? Huge problem in construction. What ends up happening is they're not profitable, they don't have their numbers, they can't, you know, they're paying one job with the deposits on other jobs. Just knowing, knowing what you're talking about and having the team behind you that can support that.

Yeah. And you've brought that business acumen to your company. Right. You've had other businesses before and that was your skill set that you brought to the table.

Yes, absolutely. Initially I was doing work and on site, bags on running the crew. You know, it's just because we only had one project, one or two projects. And as we scaled and as we are adding more projects, we have to have a system in place. We have to have, you know, people running those job sites. Yeah. Like I said, I can't stress enough that having the team behind you supporting the business is, is everything and knowing how to run a business because it is, it's. As a entrepreneur I, you know, and I've like I tell people this, I've had over 40 DBAs in the 30 years I've done business. Construction is by far the most challenging business I've ever run. It's also the most gratifying and satisfying and exciting business because there's so much opportunity in construction.

Yeah, I think it's a great point. Regardless of gender or anything like that, if you're running a building company, you need to have that business mindset. You can't be like to your point, like a lot of builders will be great at building homes, but not necessarily running the business.

Yes, 100%. And in construction it's so crucial because, because it's high ticket items. It's not easy because there's basically when you're getting your bids, right, there's someone who will do it for 100,000, there's someone who'll do it for 70,000, there's someone who'd do it for 50,000 and it's the same exact scope of work. So it's very challenging because you have to compare apples to apples and if you don't do that, you can get yourself in a lot of trouble.

Yeah. You can't get in a pricing war with others. You got to know your numbers really well. Right. And price your jobs effectively to be profitable.

Absolutely.

So from your perspective, you're obviously running a building company, and therefore you can see that women work more. Women working in the industry has benefits and all that kind of stuff. But what about for women that don't have their own company or what. What would you. What advice would you give to them for trying to enter the building industry or even think about doing so?

First, I would say do a project on your own for your house, Understand what's involved, do a small little project, write down your budget, get your materials, maybe hire one person to help you do some of the work yourself, document it, get your hands dirty and see, you know, see how it is and understand the process. But with something really small, I think that's the best way to start anything, is to actually. I mean, look, the best way to do anything is to do it right, is to take action, figure out what the next indicated action is in order to do that goal. I mean, that's just in general. Just in general, like, no matter what it is you're working on, your marriage, your kid has. Wants to get into college, you're doing a business. Anything, anything you want, you have to take action.

It's a great bit of advice, actually. If you just want to get into construction, you just start with something small and then understand the process, understand how it all works, and then go from there. So. But I think where I was coming from with that question was more so, even though the acceptance is growing, what would you encourage younger women to start thinking about differently about the industry so that it encourages more to come. Come in.

I would just say that the opportunity is massive because your unique marketing proposition is that you are a woman. There's not very many women in construction, so that alone is huge. We don't have to do any Google Ads because there's eight or nine women general contractors in Los Angeles. I mean, as an entrepreneur, that's like. It's like catnip. So. And who knows? It might not be that way. You know, maybe it's gonna get saturated over the next 10, 20 years, but right now, that's your unique marketing, you know, angle. So use it.

Yeah, well, that's a great point. When I saw girlfrip, I'm like, immediately. I mean, I see thousands of building companies every day when we're looking through, you know, different companies that we work with. And yeah, when I sell Girlfriend, this immediately stands out to me because there's not many women led construction companies at all. Like in residential. There's just not true that. What about for other building companies that might want to? Because I mean a lot of builders are struggling to attract great talent at the moment. There's a talent shortage generally across the industry in Australia and New Zealand, in the US and Canada from what we hear. What about other builders that want to attract female talent to their companies? What kind of things can they put in place to make them welcoming and interesting places for women to want to join?

I mean just being accepting, I think that is just the fact that you are wanting that and like that energy and like you're opening yourself up, right? So you have like two types of people, right? You have close minded people who it's like their way or the highway, right. And they're used to doing it a certain way. And then you have an open minded person and the closed minded person can open their mind. You know, they can just by being aware, oh my goodness, I'm a close minded person. I'm thinking one linear like a, like one way. And if they can recognize that and just be aware of it and acknowledge it, then they might open up room for different thoughts and that's the same thing. Just by being inviting and open to having women working for you with like love and you know, compassion for basically anyone, right? You will attract women because that's. Women love relationships and that's how you build a relationship is by being open minded and compassionate. Compassionate and loving. Right? It's interesting because it's. When you think of construction, you don't think of that. You think of bricks and something hard and wood and whatever. You know, for me I think it's such a huge asset by being kind and loving, you know, and being a woman and just even with my guys sending a heart emoji, I mean how unique is that to have a general send you a heart emoji? You know, just. And it could be like a purple heart. Doesn't have to be a red heart. You know, just saying we care. That's basically the message, right? And I think that's across any industry, but especially construction because it's, it's such a hard industry. When you think about it, it comes.

Back to that mindset shift, doesn't it? It's not. You're not running a building site, you're running a business. So a great business will provide all of those things that you just mentioned in terms of the relationship side of things.

Absolutely. That's all business is. Business is relationships. And it's in construction, it's in the media, it's in, you know, a clothing line, whatever it is, it's all who you know and how you nurture those relationships. And a great builder knows that because if they're nurturing their relationship, they know they'll get referrals. If you think of it as like a tree or a flower, right. And you're watering that tree and flower and it, and it produces more trees and more fruit and that's the same as in business. So we have to be nurturing and kind because if you don't give it water, it's going to die, right? You're not going to get any of the fruit from that tree because you didn't nurture it.

And I think the same thing you mentioned earlier about that unique advantage of having females work for your construction company and just standing out and being different. I think in general, even if it's a male that's running a building company, attracting a diverse talent pool is so important because a lot of the things you mentioned earlier, the skill set is different across the board. And if you're just attracting the same person all the time, you're not going to improve, you're not going to have those different details to the builds you do and you won't be able to grow and deliver a great experience. Right.

100%. Fortunately and unfortunately, water seeks its own level. Right. So it starts with the person at the top. And really it's all about who you are, you know, as a company owner and that's who you're gonna attract. You know, I don't know if you've ever been to a store and if the clerk or whatever is a total a hole, it's usually because their boss, the person who owns the company is a total a hole. It trickles down. And like I said, water seeks its own level. So if you're attracting a bunch of people in your life or your business that aren't performing and close minded and not nice or whatever, then I mean, you really have to look within. I mean, I know that's just really kind of basic life skills, you know.

So sometimes people think of business and life differently, but at the end of the day they're not. They're very interwoven.

So yes, absolutely.

Okay, let's shift energy for a second. You're building a software tool. Talk to me about what that is and why you've decided to go down that path.

So it's an interesting segue because. Right. It's all about relationships. And as a woman, that's my goal, is to make sure that I can serve the relationship as best as possible. And what I was finding, you know, over the last few years or even early starting out, I couldn't afford, you know, a robust system that was 2, $300 a month. So it was very chaotic. Then it became where there was more projects and I could afford a system. And it's a great system that we use, but it's very confusing. And it took four months to learn and onboard, and it was expensive. And thank God for that system, I got to tell you. Thank God. But it's still not serving my purpose, which is really the relationship that I have with my team and with the homeowner. Because if I'm really the only one who can understand it and maybe one or two other people in our back office, that's not serving the people who are on the job site and the homeowners. Last year, I teamed up with the CTO in North Carolina, US based, who is a homeowner and who has had tons of remodeling projects and knows, you know, the fragmentation and the miscommunication and the disorganization. And we came up with a solution called BuilderBud. It is super easy to use, and that's the key. And it's also really affordable. That's what I want to do. I'm trying to, you know, solve some problems here in construction. And even if it doesn't get huge or whatever, I'm trying to solve these problems for growth. Lip and that's where, you know, as a vertical SaaS, that's what you start with, right? You have these problems as a business, and you're solving them for your own business, and then you can go out and solve them for others. That's really what I'm trying to do. The tagline for Builder Bud originally was your construct, your construction bestie, right? Like, that was the idea behind BuilderBud that you would have, like, your best friend helping you with, you know, your projects. Like, when you think of doing something like, who would you want to do it with? Right? Like your best friend? And so that the tagline changed quickly because everyone was like, what's that now? It's construction made easy. And that's really what we're trying to do, is just simplify the process, make it as easy as possible.

Is is build a Bud more suitable to remodelers, do you think, than custom home builders or other types of contractors?

I mean, it's anyone who has a project with A someone who's a buyer and someone who's a seller. When we decided to do this, we thought of if WhatsApp and Trello and, you know, one of the bigger construction tech companies came together and had a baby, you know, making it as easy as WhatsApp really. But it's project management and it's communication. It's. I mean, I can't even tell you how many times we are on site and we're like, what are the specs? Where are the plans, you know, where's the paint color? And then to dig through a robust system and, you know, messages and, you know, and then having half the team not understanding how to use that software, that doesn't. That's not going to help solve the problem. So it's just, it's really, it's my contribution to construction and my contribution to the homeowner. You know, these, these homeowners are working their entire lives, you know, their entire life to get this asset right, this the biggest asset in their, in their life. And they're just handing it over to these random builders, you know, that like, are going to go off to the next project. It's a big ask. There's a lot of trust there, but they don't know what else to do. What else are you supposed to do? You know, so having just this little bit, this little tool that can help them with this process, I mean, I hope that is part of my legacy, you know.

Very cool. Well, if people want to check it out, buildabud.com is the best place to go. And if they want to see everything you're doing@girlfriendgirlfrip.com as well, is that. Are they the best places to check it out?

Yeah. Yeah. And then our, you know, our Instagram girl flip on Instagram, where we do a lot of really funny videos we're making light of construction is so serious. So we try to have fun. You know, that's one of the things, like, we really are trying to make this process more fun and less stressful. Yeah. And then next spring we're going to be on HETV on Tarek El Moso show for two episodes on the flipping Elmoso. So that's something else to look forward to.

Check us out. Yeah, Instagram. Your Instagram's awesome. So highly recommend checking that out too. I mean, it's. We're big advocates for producing great content for building companies. It helps you stand out and engage with your ideal customers. So, yeah, you're doing a great job with that.

Thank you.

Well, Erica, thank you so much for coming on the show today. I really enjoyed having a chat with you.

Yeah, thank you, too. I mean, what you guys are doing and helping to support builders and the construction industry, it's also very unique. You know, they don't have that many that much support and, you know, we are behind in a lot of ways. And so having companies like yours that you can lean on. Thank you so much. I appreciate you guys so much.

Thanks, Erica. Well, yeah, thanks for coming on. Any final advice you'd like to give to the builders listening out there?

Just keep at it, you know, have fun and try and, you know, open your heart and open your mind to new possibilities. You know, I mean, you can build a house, you can do anything, right? So it's pretty magical what these builders are doing. Building something from nothing. Like, I mean, pat yourselves on the back. I think it's just an incredible occupation and incredible journey.

Yeah, exactly. Lean in. So, yeah, thanks again, Erica, for coming on. You're doing some amazing stuff and I really appreciate you sharing some of your expertise and what's going on.

Thank you.

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