207. Take Control of Your Marketing With Clint Best

Welcome to another episode of Professional Builder Secrets. In this episode, I interview Clint Best, one of the executive business coaches here at apb. Clint works with builders every day, structuring their businesses for growth. And one of the biggest sticking points is how they approach marketing. Many builders rely on referrals, but eventually they need a predictable system for consistently getting quality leads so so they can grow their business and get more projects. One question that often comes up is, do I hire an in house marketer? Do I work with an agency? Do I hire a freelancer? And in this episode, Clint shares exactly how you can make that decision. What changes your company need to make to be able to grow effectively, and how to get all of your marketing in order. So enjoy the episode. This episode of Professional Builder Secrets is brought to you by Apparatus Contractor Services. Apparatus provides full scope, end to end QuickBooks, Precision Construction accounting and CFO services for residential builders. If you feel like you can't completely trust your weekly and monthly financial reports or you feel like you're flying blind, Apparatus will rebuild and operate your QuickBooks accounting system and give you precision construction accounting capability you can trust. Learn more@apparatusteam.com or on the APB Rewards Partner Directory.

Builders come into this industry in various different ways. Oftentimes it starts with their truck and they throw a couple signs on the lawn and it kind of starts like that. Unfortunately, too many go down that path without really properly educating themselves. You don't know what you don't know. It sure isn't just going down to your local newspaper and running an ad anymore. Marketing can seem overwhelming. I just have to start somewhere and start putting in the effort. The tendency sometimes is to find somebody and then give it to them and then just, you know, let them run with it. You must avoid the abdication trap. Most builders won't commit and won't do it consistently. If you really commit to that process, as you grow, the marketing gets easier.

Welcome to Professional Builder Secrets, the podcast for building company owners who want to grow safely and securely. I'm your host, Will Blunt, and today I'm joined by APB executive business coach, Clint Best. Clint, welcome to the show.

Hey, Will. Really good to be here with you. It's been a while.

It has. You've been on the podcast five times now. The last time you were on was episode 101, which is crazy because we're up to, as, as of today, 204 episodes. So it's taken me two years to convince you to come back on.

Or.

To get around to getting back to me. Whichever way you want to look at it.

But, yeah, you always provide so much value, Clint. So I'm really excited to have you on today. For everyone out there, the context that I asked Clint to come on for. I reached out to him because I was intrigued to hear what he was hearing on the coalface with his builder clients around, the challenges they were facing. And one thing he called out, which was a. An ongoing challenge, was around what to do when you're contemplating hiring someone to help out with your marketing and how you can organize the marketing function in your building company. So, based on that context, Clint, thank you for coming on to start with, but how do builders come to the conclusion that they need marketing in the first place?

Well, you know, from a very practical perspective, I suppose it's when they. They need leads or, you know, whether that be more or different kinds of leads. Right. Builders come into this industry, you know, in various different ways, I suppose. And oftentimes it's just by, you know, building first house for a friend or for themselves and growing from there. Right. So oftentimes it starts with word of mouth and they label their truck or they. They brand their truck and they throw a couple signs on the lawn, and it kind of starts like that. And I think at some point, they looking around and realized that, gosh, I need a website, I need some other stuff. So it starts there.

Yeah. Well, how do. How do you even start then if that's the journey you're going on?

Yeah, well, unfortunately, too many go down that path without really properly educating themselves, I think. And this isn't uncommon in any kind of industry or business. Right. I mean, you got to kind of get started and somewhere. And so I would say once you get that realization, once you come to that realization, you want to start educating yourself. Right. I mean, I always look at things from a coach's perspective. I know. You know, what I appreciate about the podcasts that you've been doing is, like, I'm hearing different industry people talking about their perspective on marketing. I'm hearing builders talk about their perspective. And so from a coach's perspective, I don't want to make any assumptions. Right. So my advice to somebody would be start educating yourself on these things. You know, we were talking as a coaching group the other day about how things that we perceive to be simple, our clients don't. So although marketing, you know, I don't feel like it's anything to be afraid of. Of course. Right. You want to approach it with a growth mindset, and growth mindset versus a Fixed mindset, meaning that, hey, I can learn what's necessary. Right. I just have to start somewhere and start putting in the effort.

I would imagine it's pretty common for builders to get to, you know, a very established business with a lot of revenue, a lot of work coming through just from referrals, right?

Yep, that can be the case. Of course, the, the downside of that is that they're not always the quality that you want and they're, they can be inconsistent. Inconsistent. So of course, the long term intention with building out your marketing program as we teach it, it's an automated program, so eventually you want it to be working on its own and eventually you want it to be generating more demand than you can supply. Of course, that's a big ask, especially for somebody who's just starting out. But you know, you have to have, you have to start out with a vision as well.

Yeah. Like, it's an interesting point you make around the referrals. You might end up with some great ones, but then some problem clients as well. And you're probably doing all sorts of different jobs and not finding a really clear path for the business.

Yeah. And to be clear, like referral, a referral strategy should always be part of your marketing program. You want to have different strategies working for you within your total marketing efforts. But again. Right. You want to eventually be able to pick the jobs that make sense to you. Right. Which would include, you know, being in your area of specialty and in being able to command the margins and the prices that you need to continue to reinvest in your business. So again, that's where, you know, a pure referral strategy may not give you exactly, you know, what you want and not enough of it.

What does marketing look like for, for a builder? And I want to talk a little bit more about, you know, who they can hire and how they can set themselves up for success. But maybe we need to start it like what it looks like, because we were talking before we started recording just before, and you were really off all these different things that you need to do to market. And even I was feeling like, wow, that's a lot to digest, especially if your starting point is, you know, throwing a sticker on your van as like your first, first port of call. So what does marketing look like? What are all the different moving parts for a building company as we talk about that?

You know, we have an action plan called the sales blueprint for builder, which is a great starting point to get sort of a vision for what your marketing eventually will want to look like. And that vision is important, right? You always have to start with that end in mind and understand what am I trying to achieve and what does this thing actually look like. And then you can think about, you know, who I need to bring on to help me. But yeah, I mean, you need lots of different kinds of specialties, right? Like specialty skill sets. So some of those you might have, some of them you might have, you know, people in your team or people on your network that can help you get started, depending on where you are in your business. But you know, some of the things you're going to need over time is that you're going to need a web developer, you're going to need somebody to do your graphic design work and your creative stuff. Maybe a videographer and somebody to do video, video editing, eventually a copywriter, you know, an SEO consultant, you know, obviously like a printer, maybe somebody does promotional products, somebody who can provide a CRM. So lots of different skill sets that you're going to need. And of course then you just need to decide what sequence and priority you need them in. We often think about the digital marketing, the online marketing, which is very, very valuable because it's highly leveraged and can work 247 for you, of course. But then there's also networking and strategic partners and events that can be sort of tapped into as well, that long term should be part of your program. And then when you think about, you know, the management of all of that, you know, you have to be. Some have. And we can drill down into any one of these a little more if you think it might be helpful for the audience. But you know, as strategic manager, kind of to keep that messaging up to date and keep the market to message match tight. A campaign manager to actually run campaign and track them for you. A social media manager who can create and run regular social media posts. Marketing administrator, someone who can look after your software and your files, your paperwork, your contracts, all of that, that might be somebody in house longer term. And then, you know, maybe somebody to look after your CRM. So there's lots of. And right now what you need to realize, you're wearing, you're wearing all those.

Hats or maybe not, which is probably the problem.

There you go, right? So you don't know what you don't know. And so again, you know, it starts with an education and starting to educate yourself on what exactly is marketing. Because it sure isn't just going down to your local newspaper and running an ad anymore. That's old fashioned.

It does sound a little overwhelming. In terms of how many moving parts there are. So it sounds like maybe you need to get started with some level of strategy around what you'll do first. Would you say that's a fair assumption?

Yeah, I think. Well, okay, so let's start with what do I need to generate, Right? How many leads do I need to generate? So setting some targets, some reasonably achievable targets, because there are some marketing strategies that can be deployed pretty quickly. We have a lot of those defined in our or presented in our getting new work fast action plan. And so those things, they don't require a lot of investment and they don't require a lot of time, but they do probably require more administrative help. So, you know, you need somebody to help put the assets together, the. The materials, and then maybe you have to make some time to reach out to your network and stimulate that and that sort of thing. So it's a good idea to have those kind of offline, more practical strategies going while you're starting to build up your assets and plan out your digital marketing strategy, which eventually you'll sort of will kick in and we'll do more and more of that heavy lifting for you. Does that make sense?

It does. I'm just getting distracted because I've just seen all your APB awards on the, on the shelf behind you. Are they all coaching of the Year awards?

Those are four years running.

Very good, Very good. Sorry, bit of a sidetrack for anyone watching on YouTube or, or social media. I think the focus of this interview needs to be on the hires because we could get lost around marketing strategy and what you need to do and all of that kind of stuff. The crux of what we wanted to get into was around who do you hire first. So you understand you need better marketing. You want to get more leads, you've got an idea of what your end goal is. Who should you bring in to help you out?

Yeah, I think initially, as I touched on earlier, you're going to need somebody to help you build your assets. Just somebody, a good administrative person. Now that could be in house or you could outsource that. People have a knowledge of the industry, but it's not critical in every role. I think that's where I would start. Right. You want somebody to keep you out of the weeds. I mean, that really is some good, sound, practical advice right away. Right. If you own a building company, then that's what you should be focusing on. And you want to stay far enough ahead with your marketing activities that you can keep somebody busy helping you do the groundwork. So I think initially kind of an administrative type person that, that has those skill sets, has good commuter skills and is, is organized and that person might reach out to coordinate some freelancers or you know, in APB we have rewards partners, a number of them that are great outsourcing, freelance and offshoring options. I think I would start there.

So the administrator is not necessarily someone that understands everything about marketing, but they maybe understand enough and can be educated on it to coordinate the pieces.

Yeah. So that, you know. So obviously if you have somebody in house that might be somebody that's already on your team, it might be your office manager or an administrative assistant or something like that. I guess the downside of that is they may not have the knowledge. Right. That you need them to have, but they have the skills now. You know, if you're an APB member, then they can of course start to watch our training and they can implement that, that alongside you. And of course, if you're outsourcing, then you get to tap into specialized knowledge. So that's the upside there, right. When you think of all those hats that I just talked about, the graphic designer and the copywriter and all those skills, now we also have the added dimension of AI, you know, now. Right. That can help you with a lot of those elements. So again. Right. A good administrative person can just help you leverage that opportunity as well.

If you were to work with an agency, for example, one benefit I see of working with agencies is they have compound knowledge about the industry. If they, if you work with a marketing agency who has specific specialized experience with other building companies, they may be working with 10, 20, 30, 100 other building companies across the country or even locally. And they're getting quick understanding about what works and what doesn't work. And you can shortcut the process very quickly to get results from that. Obviously that comes with an expense and other things though.

I think the one thing I would add to that will, is this comes back to the education. You have to be sufficiently knowledgeable about what it is that you want in order to know whether you're getting good results. Right. It could be messy at first like anything. Right. I mean, you're going to have to learn through this school of hard knocks. Unless of course, you've got people in your environment that can help you answer the hard questions and give you advice on these things. Obviously I do that all day as a, as a coach just to make it more efficient. You really do need to own it. Right. You must avoid the abdication trap. Right. You know, you mentioned earlier that it can seem a bit overwhelming in reality. It is a bit overwhelming. And so the tendency sometimes is to find somebody and then give it to them and then just, you know, let them run with it. Problem with that is oftentimes when the bills start coming in and the results aren't there, you know, that can be obviously equally frustrating.

Yeah, well, let's talk about that for a second, because I've heard that a number of times from other coaches and other builders actually within our network around, they're almost hesitant to get into marketing and invest with an agency because they've been burned before. Exactly. Like you said, then they've, they've abdicated to an agency thinking, okay, I need new leads. These are the experts, let's get them in. And then a couple of months go by and they've spent 10, 20 grand on marketing and not got any new projects out of it. How do you overcome that mindset or that challenge?

Yeah, a couple things there. I mean, obviously it's important ideally to have somebody with industry experience. That's not always possible. So again, this comes back to your level of understanding on, in terms of your expectations and, you know, knowing which questions to ask and knowing how to set your. Your expectations. You know, I think that, that having some clear KPIs and targets is always something that, that comes up in these types of discussions. Right. And understanding what your age.

And whoever you're outsourcing to doesn't know is. They don't know your customer. Right. They don't know your specialty. So this comes back to kind of the foundational work that you need to put in, you know, so that you have properly distinguished yourself in the marketplace. You've looked at your competition, you understand sort of what positions have been filled in that marketplace, so you know how to stand out. You have a basic understanding of your messaging, what's really and who your avatar, as we call them, your ideal customer profile is, and what you specialize in so that you can provide all of that. Again, right. In our action plans, we have different tools to help you kind of assemble that information, understand it, and then relay it onto to an agency or to a freelancer. And generally that's met with a lot of appreciationism and enthusiasm because most businesses don't take those steps before they engage. So ideally, put that together for yourself. You know, an agency will put that together for you. But again, if they don't have a lot of experience in the construction industry, then and especially in your niche, then they're going to be asking you general questions and trying, taking kind of a general approach to it. And there's a lot. There's a huge difference in the way you would market, you know, for. For a retailer, and you would. For somebody in the construction industry, for instance, or even a professional service.

Yeah. You need to be able to sniff out when you're getting the wrong agency. Right. I mean, the number one factor you should be looking for is experience with other people in the industry, I think.

Yeah, absolutely. And there's still. There's still a real disconnect out there with what good marketing is. You know, essentially it's the good marketing you might boil down to just being helpful, you know, and understanding how to communicate with an audience. And it's kind of sort of a pull marketing versus push marketing, I guess you could say. Right.

The other part I think we've kind of not fully touched on is the expectations of results in the first place. At the end of the day, if you think you need leads today and you engage a marketing agency to get you leads and expect leads today, you may get lucky. But the reality is, in this industry, the sales cycle is long. Right. You need to build trust over a period of time. The leads you get quickly, unfortunately, if they're right at the bottom of the funnel and they're ready to build right now, you're probably getting inquiries because they're shopping around. If you want to get those quality leads where you can charge the margins, you want to, and you want to and, you know, provide the value you can, knowing your specialty, you've got to nurture them for 12, 18 months.

Yeah, that's a really good point, Will. And so you have to be ready for that kind of progression, I suppose. Right. And to set your expectations, for instance, we have benchmarks that we're very, very clear about in terms of what you.

The.

The margins you should be able to command as a professional builder. But if you haven't put the work in yet, you haven't necessarily earned the right to command those margins. Right. So, you know, you have to kind of manage that. That curve. Right. Manage that investment by, you know, like I said, first of all, you might have to stick to that guerrilla marketing, get. Keep the jobs coming in. Maybe they're not exactly the jobs that you want to be doing. Maybe eventually you want to be doing larger renovations or new construction, but maybe you're doing kitchen and bathroom renovations, you know, right now. And so you've got to keep that funnel going, you know, either through your network or just proximity marketing efforts in the neighborhoods that you're working in. And then you have to, you know, build up, obviously build up your, your working capital. All of this can be done while you're educating yourself on marketing, but there has to be a realistic time frame where you're putting in that effort. And just like anything else that you're building, right. Eventually you'll start to get traction and you'll start to get a return on that investment. And you know, in our industry that can happen relatively quickly. But like you say, like, you may need to do a lot of that education and nurturing manually before you've got your system set up.

How do you balance that transition? Because it seems as if a lot of builders get stuck in that first part, which is just taking on the work they can and moving forward there and never quite get to where they want to go. And we know how magnetic it can be when you have a really clear niche. You only work with the clients that you value and that fit the ideal customer profile. But to your point, there's a transitionary period. So how do you balance that?

A big part of it is managing your margins and being able to forecast your revenue so that you can see your pathway through it. And that's unfortunately a skill set that doesn't often exist with a typical builder.

But it all starts with, you have to be pricing at least reasonably well in terms of margin to, to be able to generate the revenue and the profit to reinvest in your marketing. Marketing principles haven't changed over time because there's largely psychology based and psychology hasn't changed in thousands of years. So to get efficient at it, to get a good return on investment, you just have to build your skills. One of the problems that a lot of builders get into is they overbook themselves with low margin work. And then you've got to dig yourself kind of out of that place. So, you know, to know, okay, how many jobs do I have to sign and get started in order to generate enough revenue so that I can also devote some time to marketing and devote some resources to marketing to start buying back my time. It really is just managing that process. And you know, the way that we approach it, of course, is quarter by quarter, right. Each quarter you, you set a targeted goal. You, you have, you know, a couple of projects we call rocks that you mean to achieve in that time frame. And you've just got to put those pieces in place, you know, in the right priority and sequence. And again, it starts by understanding your customer and where you're sitting in the marketplace.

Yeah. No, that's awesome. I mean, it's very insightful just to think of it, because what you're doing is you're taking it up a level. You're not just thinking about, I need new leads or I need marketing. You're looking holistically at how the business can move forward, and marketing is a key cog in that. Well, that's the way I interpret it, anyway.

Yeah, no, it absolutely is. We're all marketing. Right. Whether we're consciously aware of it or not. So, you know, you've got something to build on there. Right. I'm a golfer, as you know, so when I'm having a bad game, all I need is one good hole, and I can build on that. Right. So I think the. The game of marketing is the. Is the same thing. You need get one good customer and build on that. Just ride that wave.

Golf's probably a good metaphor for business. The better you get, the higher your standards are, and so the more frustrating it is when things don't go right.

Right. They are all just a game, I think. I think running a business is like playing a game. You just got to understand the rules and accept the fact that the more you know, the more you know how little you know.

So you're the type of golfer, Clint, that will try and play short and straight or go as long as you. As long as you can.

I've learned to use good course management and to focus on what's right in front of you. And business is the same thing. Right. I mean, you know, as you mentioned earlier, and we keep coming back to this, you know, marketing can be. Can seem overwhelming. Well, you know, the reality is you need to focus on the 200ft in front of you, not the, you know, not the destination that might be a thousand miles away. Right. You just need to get to that next milestone. So chunking things down into manageable rocks or projects or milestones and achieving that and then celebrating that win. Right. Celebrating that win. I'll tell you what. You know, you ask most successful people, you know, how they did it, they can't really tell you other than they did it one step at a time. Right. You are going to get your home runs once in a while. Right. Your big wins. But generally it's going to be a series of smaller steps. And so really committing to those steps and then being consistent. Right. I think a big part of being a successful business owner is. And professional builder, of course, is to just be consistent and commit.

Yeah. I've been in marketing for over 15 years now. And you're setting yourself up to be constantly disappointed if you're waiting for that big, you know, hockey stick situation where, you know, everything just goes perfectly. Because in reality, it's just, it's incremental gains over a long period of time that's going to get you where you want to go.

You know, the idea of testing and measuring, we talk about testing and measuring a lot in marketing, right? Like here, constantly dialing in that, that recipe and trying new things. And not everything works. You don't have to reinvent the wheel either, right? The principles are all there. It's really about taking those principles and customizing them to your story really is.

What it is at the end of the day as well, a lot of building companies aren't doing marketing or not doing it very well, at least. So there's still a huge opportunity to stand out quite easily if you put in the right, the right principles in place.

Massive, massive opportunities, right? Anybody who has started in that marketing journey knows that the barriers to entry are significant, right? Most builders won't commit and won't do it consistently. So if you can just adopt that mindset and put in the effort and, you know, open your mind, it's not that scary, right? It's not really overwhelming. It's finite. As you grow, if you really commit to that process, as you grow, the marketing gets easier. It's not like building. You don't, you're, you don't have to create a bunch more capacity, right? And you just keep doing the same things that work, you keep repeating that, right. And you pay attention to if and when the playing field might change, right? Because if the market changes or the playing field changes, you may have to make some adjustments, but those adjustments will typically just be in the messaging that you're deploying. And maybe what you're focusing on, it won't be on the fundamentals or the mechanics or the platforms that you're using. Once you understand how to use Google and Meta and your CRM system and how to update your website and these things, they rarely change.

Great. Well, Clint, I wanted to end with one piece of advice you'd give to builders to get their marketing structure in place and make sure it's in where it should be. What would you say?

Well, from a very practical perspective, I would say set out some rocks for this quarter and then book time into your calendar. Start putting making an appointment with yourself every week for, I would say, at least an hour to work on your marketing as a member of apb. That could be to watch an action plan and then start to implement that action plan. Yeah. And just understand that good marketing is being helpful. Right. So don't get into that trap of talking about yourself all the time. Take a deep interest in your customer and have a curious nature. Right. Like start paying attention to how they respond to things and what's relevant and what's interesting to them.

Great way to finish. Great way to finish. For anyone that's not an APB member, we'll drop a link into our free marketing Blueprint, which is a resource you can download, but for any members out there, there's tons of action plans on marketing. We've got the marketing blueprint. There's the sales blueprint, which is also incorporates a number of the fundamentals around marketing. There's controlling your brand with advertising. There's one on content marketing, which is a highly effective strategy for builders. There's tons in there. So whether you are a member or not, there's plenty of advice out there for you to learn and educate yourself about marketing. Clint, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. I've had a lot of fun. I mean, I love talking about marketing anyway, but especially when it's with you as you are like on the, on the front lines with the builders and learning about the industry every day.

Thanks, Will. Thanks for having me. It's been a pleasure.

Great. And a big, a big thank you to our listeners as well, wherever you are in the world. If you like the show today, please subscribe to Professional Builder Secrets on your platform of choice. And if you're feeling generous, leave us a review. But until next time, have a great day.