27. How To Remain 'Booked Out' For 12 Months With Russ, Sky & Andy

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To industry experts and your fellow professional builders on everything you need to know to generate more leads, more sales and higher margins while improving the building experience for your clients. Hello and welcome to the Professional Builder Secrets Podcast, a podcast by the association of Professional Builders for building company owners, general managers, VPs and emerging leaders. Here we discuss all things running a professional building company, from sales, processes, financials, operations and marketing. Welcome everyone to another exciting episode from the Professional Builders Secrets podcast. I'm joined today by co founders sky and Russ Stevens, as well as head coach Andy Scarta for the association of Professional Builders. Thank you for joining me today. Excited to be speaking to you all as well.

Hey.

I've been dying to ask this question because I've been on this amazing journey getting to meet all these different builders from different parts of the world. You've got this amazing network and all their stories are so inspiring and transformative. But there's this question that's been fueling my curiosity for quite some time now, and that question is, how do these construction builders juggle multiple projects all at the same time and do it without blinking an eye?

I can answer this facetiously right now and say I have no idea because this takes serious work and serious skill. It is one of the hardest jobs I could imagine doing.

I think to back you up, I would say they don't. The bulk of them are batting a lot of eyes to try and keep this whole process running. So your question about how do they do it without batting an eye? Unless there's some serious planning and experience behind what they're doing, they are batting eyes continuously.

It's a real challenge, isn't it? Because when you're in business, you want to service those sales and deliver, deliver that service as quickly as you can, pull the revenue in. And the trouble is, I think in this industry, it all comes in at once. It's feast and famine. And yeah, that's a real challenge for builders because no one likes to turn down work. But yeah, when we say yes, we end up with these big bulges in the funnel.

Why is it so hard, though? I mean, you know, I have a hard time managing projects, but from a builder's perspective, why is it really difficult?

What makes it the hardest for running a building company is exactly what Rustra said. It comes in like a feast and famine. So the way project management can just get all on top of you. And so difficult is when everything's happening at once and it's. It's Murphy's Law. It is when it rains, it pours. And so what can happen is you can generate all of these leads or get so much marketing and you end up starting all of your projects at the same time. And when that happens, you're going to have, say you're running like five projects, even 10 projects at a time. Let's just say five projects at any one time and say they're all at the same stage. That is an absolute nightmare. When you are trying to get crews to go to all different projects and they're all supposed to be there at the same time. That's an absolute nightmare. Can you think about it when you've got more handovers all at the same time? Like, handovers are such a big, big part of the process and you want to do it well. That's where it becomes an absolute nightmare. So why is it so hard or what makes it so hard? It's when multiple projects are at the exact same stage, when that's not what you're geared up for. It's too much.

Are you going to tell me how you can make this easier for a builder?

I hope so. Look, the most professional builders in the industry, they manage this and they manage it really well. And it's because they have a system. Well, they've got systems for everything. So on site, actually managing the projects, actually scheduling the projects and everything leading up to doing the projects. Because, I mean, we can probably handle one project at a time in our heads, maybe even two. But the second we get to three or more projects on the go at any one time, it becomes very confusing. So this is where professional builders actually lean into systems at every part of the process.

How did you all discover that this was going to become a significant challenge for the builders? Was this something you picked up on the front lines from speaking to them, interacting with builders as well?

I can remember the exact moment it came in one of our boardroom meetings. There was about six or nine building companies would fly into the Gold coast every 90 days, and we would take a real deep dive into their KPIs and really dig deep into their business, uncovering the real, the challenges and the problems. And by working closely with these builders and really digging deep, we could see that this obviously was a problem that we were all very aware about, but we could see the effect that it was actually having on their margins. Because a building company works well when the funnel is Optimized. And by that, I mean everything is balanced and working nicely. And when you get these bulges in the funnel that we've just been describing, at any part of the funnel, whether it's the start, the middle, or the finish, then you're not operating efficiently. How many builders we speak to that find themselves with four or five handovers all in the same small window of time, and it puts an enormous stress. And that means they don't deliver the client experience that they want to deliver. And when they get that same situation at the front end, they end up with slabs being queued or framing being delayed because they've got one or two carpentry crews and they're having to do their job sequentially. So it became very clear that creating a balanced funnel, that was what this industry really needed. And that was really how we discovered this concept, this idea and introduced it to builders.

With the concept and with the planning. Do you end up risk losing money or pushing money away? Because it sounds like at some point you have to either make a choice to either prioritize the business or the client's needs, or is there a fine line between the two?

Oscar?

I think that really depends on the business and where it is in terms of its development and its evolution. The reality here is, and I think back to I lived in Singapore for five years and loved eating in food courts, which are, you know, multiple kind of almost kiosks in one place selling different types of food. And the interesting piece was there were some of those that were completely empty. Nobody was near them. And then there were others that the queues were around the block. And it's one of those things that as human beings, we tend to look at the full restaurant, the empty restaurant, and we'll go and stand in a line. Because that scarcity generates an impression of professionalism. And all these people want to eat that food, then it's got to be good. And this is pretty much the same thing. Our clients often are hesitant when we propose this process to them. And they then step out there and take the risk and say to somebody, I cannot start your project for nine months. And then hold their breath and cross their fingers and their toes, and the client says, that's okay, I'll wait. And the realization that in a client seeing that somebody's that professional, that they are organized, they've got things in line, they can tell clients exactly when the job will start, when it'll finish, and walk them through that process, that builds a lot of confidence in the builder's ability to deliver that project and to deliver it on time. So in fact, we see the opposite. We see in most cases that when this is properly planned and implemented, people end up with relatively long runways of work committed, which obviously then gives them consistency, ongoing cash flow, profitability, margin, et cetera, et cetera.

Yeah, and this was a real added bonus because we were trying to solve one problem and that was to create a balanced funnel. The solution that we came up for that problem was construction slots. The idea of construction slots and by staggering the start dates, we could actually stagger the whole construction funnel and keep it balanced. But the added bonus of that is didn't just help with delivery and increasing margin through optimizing resources, but it also created that thing that every business needs in order to sell and that scarcity. And that's simply because a slot can only be allocated once a contract has been signed and the deposit has been paid.

Is this a terminology that was invented by the association of Professional Builders? Is this something that people actually know? Is it an industry recognized concept? And more importantly, tell me a little bit about this concept. Is it a software, a technique? Is it a bit of both?

Well, I wouldn't call it. Well, it's definitely not a software. I probably wouldn't call it a technique. I'd think of it as a concept, maybe even a way of life. But we coined the term construction slots. Did we invent the idea of planning? No, of course not.

We didn't drink. Sure we did. It was a Tuesday morning when we invented it.

Absolutely, absolutely. The idea of planning and scheduling out when your work can start, is that super profound and new? No. However, does every single building company do this?

No.

So what we found as we started talking to more and more building companies about this concept and then all the rules around it, because I think this is what makes construction slots make or break. It's the rules and how you play that game. Because your planning is either going to work or it's not, depending how you roll out these construction slots. And so I remember when we first started introducing this concept to a select number of builders that are really quite professional, really systemized. It was that moment, wasn't it guys? It was like, yeah, like, of course, of course you'd plan that out in the year. Of course we know how many projects we'd want to start and when. But the profound thing was, okay, schedule it. What, when exactly are all of those openings? And then if two people want an opening and there's only one, you're only allowed to start one. They get allocated to the next one. And that's when it became interesting. That's when it was like, oh, like, okay, there's some rules to this. And this is exactly how we can introduce that genuine scarcity and urgency. It helps us on the selling side, but it's all of those benefits that everything else is staggered in stage, every other stage of the construction side throughout the projects. It's just well balanced after that point.

Yeah. When you ask, is it software, is it a technique? One thing it also is, is it's a mindset because this has to be used with integrity because you can't buckle. Once you set out your plan like sky described, and you allocate your start dates, they have to be set in stone because you're always going to have people that, well, I want it to start on that date. And, you know, if I can't have my job starting then as well, I'm going to pull out. And there will be a temptation to buckle. But you cannot buckle because you lose your integrity the moment you do that. Yeah, integrity mindset is a very important part. Part of the whole construction slot strategy. I'd probably call that a strategy.

Yeah, I was going to say protocol, but anyway, pick the word. I think the other thing, Russ, that's critical here is it allows a lot of our members to not feel like they are lying to clients to create urgency. I love watching their faces when I say to them, so how many builds can you actually start this year? And they go, oh, eight. And I say, so it's not unlimited. No, no, no, I can only start eight. Well, doesn't that make you saying to a client, I have limited build slots available? The truth. At which point you can kind of see them. That light bulb comes on, actually. Yes. It is a limited resource. I don't have an unlimited capacity to build. I can only build this number or start this number in the next year. And. And that gives them a lot of confidence in that selling process again, and.

A lot of control, too, because suddenly, like, it backs you up in the background and then you have a lot of control over what you will and will not tolerate and accept in that process.

It sounds like what you're talking about is authentic honesty as well. I find this a really fascinating concept as well, because at the end of the day, I thought maybe the clients would be pushing away from it, but it sounds like what you're trying to do is actually build trust and credibility as well from this particular concept because.

Of that honesty and professionalism. When people see that it's planned to that degree. It lends an authority to the builder as well, which is obviously an added.

Bonus and it's a benefit to the clients. Because it's so easy for any professional builder to explain why they have these slots, why they have these build slots, construction slots, whatever you do want to call them throughout that calendar year and what's upcoming and available. We have every single reason as to why ready. It's so that we know when your finish date is. It's so that all of our projects are staggered, so that we only manage X amount at any one time. So that we can give your home and you as clients the attention you deserve and should get so that you have the best experience possible. It truly is a win win for the clients. They're going to get everything they want out of it. And running a professional building company is going to be so much more enjoyable.

It's interesting, isn't it? Because I think we've all experienced those sales guys that are just extremely good at selling. They're natural and they don't even appear to be trying. They'll say things like, hey, if you're interested, let me know or let me know if you're in that kind of thing. They really seem to put minimum effort into selling and they have a queue of people that trust them and can't wait to get signed up. But really it's all about the work they put in on the front end to limit the availability to create that trust and demand. And they just make it look easy.

And you talked about this concept being adopted obviously with the members that are part of the association of Professional Builders. How can you tell the difference in science from a building construction company, from a company that actually applies this concept versus a company that doesn't? Do you have any examples that you guys could give us a snapshot of?

Well, I guess the perception from a consumer's point of view, if I was answering it from their point of view, it would be perceived value because as a species we all desire scarce resources. Perceived value that increases whenever the resources are limited. And from a builder's perspective, not only does it help with conversion because of those factors that we've introduced, scarcity and urgency, but it also helps with the margin. So the big difference and the telling signs between a construction company that applies construction slots versus one that doesn't is their margins and the fact that they're booked out well into the future with those high margins. I guess another little bonus as well, it then gives the builders the confidence to disqualify and reject those clients that they don't want to be working with because they are booked out so far in advance. They're constantly increasing their margins. They spot these warning flags straight away, and they've got the confidence to disqualify those guys that are maybe just looking for the cheaper price and maybe guide them towards a builder that might be a better fit for them.

That was such a key word, though, booked out to a certain date because builders who don't use construction slots like Andy was talking about before, you're too afraid to make people wait for too long. I think everyone gets nervous about that the first time. But, yeah, professional builders who use construction slots know when their next available start dates are, so they book them so much further ahead in advance rather than letting themselves get into that feast or famine. I'll start whenever you need me to start. When do you want this project to start? We'll work around you. And unfortunately, that happens way too much in this industry, and it's what delivers poor experiences and horrific scheduling nightmares for the builders.

The way you asked that question, Bosco, you said, how do we tell they lose that haunted look. The builder that's trying to do everything for everybody on the client's time schedule and keep 900 plates spinning, isn't sleeping well, is working 90 hours a week, probably isn't making any money on any of those things because of it. That's how we tell the difference, actually. They suntanned and relaxed and they look cool.

And if you want to see this in action, you just walk into any designer brand store and look what they got on the shelves. In terms of handbags, they're absolutely minimal, aren't they? There is so much available selling space that's just going wasted, and you think, man, this is a missed opportunity. But no, these guys know exactly what they're doing.

Little tip for everyone on how you get them. They're all in the back, so you have to talk to the sales consultants.

So this is intentional, but okay, walk me through an example. Let's pretend I am a customer and I'm dealing with a builder. Take me through a construction slot concept, and how does that interact with my psyche?

Well, first of all, let's go from a builder's perspective, because the question, I think becomes, how do I work out my construction slots? Because you need to look at what's been happening and what you actually can handle, and then you need to look at the year ahead of you. So, first of all, when we're planning out our construction slots, got to understand that, we have to make plans on averages. And the first thing you need to do is work out your average contract value. Now, I'm just going to pull out some numbers here. Use your own. Say you built five homes last year and that your total sales revenue last year was about $4 million. That means your average contract value is $800,000. Yes, some jobs may have been bigger. Some of them may have even been a little bit smaller than that. But it's important for this exercise that we average things out for planning purposes. Then we need to work out, on average, how many weeks it takes to complete projects of that size. And you just want to keep that information handy because that's where you put that information in your construction slot. Planner and forecaster. When you're looking at a calendar, obviously it's sort of like the investment disclaimers that you hear. Past performance, there's no guarantee of future results. Sure. But it honestly is the best way to find a forecast. So if you're not working on implementing anything new, for example, investing a lot heavier into advertising and staff and software and scaling, then work that we've done previously is really going to help us if we can just plan that out for next year, if we're trying to do the same. So, you know, take into account your situation. But in this example, we'll just go with, five new homes were built, revenue was $4 million. I've got an $800,000 contract value, and I've worked out how long each of those projects take on average. Then you want to ask yourself a couple more questions about the year that you're trying to plan. So how many contracts am I actually planning on signing? How many jobs can you comfortably run at any one time? This is a really, really important question to ask yourself. What do your resources actually allow you to do? And then another big question is, what are your shutdown periods? Okay, think of Christmas, Think of Easter, think of summer. If you're in North America, what are some big vacation periods that actually affect your business because you want to be planning on around that? So as an example, let's just say we've taken a really good look at our plan. We've asked ourselves those questions. You know, how many contracts am I planning to sign? The answer is 5 in the next 12 months. I also know that ideally we don't want to if we don't have to. I don't want to start projects in December. I don't want to start projects in January. As an example, say that then leaves us 10 months out of the 12 months in that calendar year. So suddenly, like, I don't have 12 opportunities to start these five projects. I've got 10. So in my mind, I'm then thinking, okay, I need to spread out those start dates over those 10 months. So if we're planning to sign five contracts in the next 12 months, we can have a construction slot every second month. And then that allows us to say, okay, how many are going to be on the go at any one time? Where are all of my handover dates? And where are all of my start dates? And then you want to be looking, as you're looking at that calendar, what is that? Coming into contact with certain national holidays. What's going to derail this plan? So it's a really simple concept, and it's just about sitting back and looking at a plan and seeing when can that happen? That was a really oversimplified version as well, because the bigger the company, the more projects you can do in a year and the more projects you can handle at any one time. You will be having multiple start dates in a month. So you will be having multiple handovers at any one time as well. And this is where you can get into a model quite quickly. And that's why a visual planner and this whole concept becomes just too important to miss.

That's right. But to add to what Skye's just said, there's two things that are critical in this process. One is weather. So there are certain parts of the world where our builders are that they cannot build because of snow or ice or whatever for a couple of months of the year. That's number one. Number two, we've got the C word running at the moment that is hitting every single builder. Now, I don't know when people are going to be listening to this, but I'm naturally referring to Covid and the supply chain problems that that is bringing. For every builder that does not have their start dates planned and their construction schedule worked out, they are in a flat spin at the moment. Because to try and juggle those factors on top of a lack of sequential steps to get people to the end of their build, it's absolute insanity at the moment.

So it's a bit of capacity planning and a bit of communication as well from both sides. That sounds what this DNA of this fabric. When you talk about this concept. Now, you all know from my previous podcast interviews, I'm a data nerd and I love metrics. So I'm just curious here. Enlighten me and go with the flow. But how does the use or the absence of this particular concept show up in business metrics for building operation?

Well, I think we've all mentioned it to some degree already. It's feast or famine and you'll see it happen in literally every part of the business. Because whether we're talking revenue or we talking profitability, or we talking ratios within the business, if we do not have consistent minimal cash flow running at all times, we are going to have periods in the year where we in a cash flow squeeze, we don't have enough money to cover the outgoings, those kind of things. So the positive effect of this is that you're able to set up your construction process. Because think about it, we can't invoice until we've built. So the reality is it's building whatever we are building that gives us the ability to issue the invoice and then get paid. Essentially by planning when we are going to build. We are then also planning when we are going to invoice. And that is then going to reflect in when we are actually receiving payment and able then to run our business from a financial perspective. The fact that it's planned then reflects into margins. Because if I know when I'm building, I get economies of scale. I'm able to optimize my subcontractors and my suppliers delivery dates. I'm not storing materials for long periods of time. I can have them delivered to site the week before I need them. So the ripple effect of planning when construction starts and then the ongoing forecast of that build schedule, it'll literally show up in every single data metric from a financial perspective.

And what you mean by that is you're going to see gaps in the cash flow, specifically with certain areas.

You're not going to, if you do this exercise as sky explained it properly, you're going to negate those completely. You will have consistent cash flow throughout the year. And that's what you're looking for, obviously.

So tell me a little bit about the insights for the builders that are applying this concept within the membership as well and the people that you work with on a day to day basis. Does the operations look the same with all builders that apply this concept? What's the biggest insight that you have seen working with builders applying this concept?

It's exactly what Andy said. I would say profitability, just to really emphasize that point. The reason it increases profitability when you can implement construction slots and implement it well is because you're not having to source additional resources which one are either not going to be as efficient as your regular teams. It's the foresight, right? Suddenly everything's up at the same stage. You need to source additional workers so that things can actually get done. They're either not going to be as efficient as your regulars because they're just going to take more. More of your time to brief or even just monitor, or their rates are substantially higher because they're not getting consistent or even regular work from you in the first place. So it truly comes down to that bottom line, profitability. And then if we look at the other side of the coin as well, you just have happier clients.

I think a great story that was shared with us comes from Rocky at Vision Homes in West Virginia. Yeah, a great share that he shared with the team was he told us about the day that he went in to see his lawyer and it was around about the time of the elections in the us, just over a year ago now. And the lawyer was saying to him, how do you think this is going to affect you and how many jobs do you actually end up quoting and doing all that work for? That never. Go ahead. And Rocky said to him, he said, well, prior to July this year, it was a lot, but now we only build for the clients we want to build for. So naturally, the lawyer said to him, well, what changed in July? And he said, that's when we introduced construction slots. That's how powerful this strategy is. It transformed Rocky's business.

Russ, do you get a little bit of hesitance from the builders when you introduce this concept? Is there any sort of fear that comes across or. Or do you find them really adaptive to trying this particular process? Because, like you said, it's a mindset shift in many ways too. Right. So my experience with most mindset shifts, there's always some form of hesitance.

Sometimes in my experience with the guys that I've worked with, I haven't experienced any hesitancy at all. But I think Andy is probably the best person to ask this. What have you seen, Andy?

Well, I think it's. Again and Bosco, we've discussed this on a number of different podcasts that a lot of the builders that come to us are in that place where they are transitioning from being builders into becoming business owners and leaders. And the truth is, this is part of that process. Obviously, what we do with them is we start to introduce planning, leadership, organization, control, systemisation throughout the business. In this podcast, we've zeroed in on the construction discipline as a specific, but it's really part of the suite. It's part of the deck of cards that we at the APB have developed. And it fits beautifully. It dovetails into everything else that we are teaching them. So, generally speaking, because of the quality of the way we explain these protocols, the. The training programs that we have available, we give the builder everything he needs in order to make that mind shift or mindset change significantly easier. Is there some trepidation? Absolutely. It's on a broader scale, though, because in a lot of cases, people are realizing I have to turn down some work because I don't have unlimited capacity, but that once they've actually implemented it, as Russ has shared with the story from Rocky, it gives them incredible control and freedom to run the business on their terms. And when they start to experience that, on top of better profitability, et cetera, et cetera, they never, ever look back once they've got it running in the business.

I'll tell you where I think we may even get the most pushback is when we introduce this concept, protocol strategy. Whichever word we ended up deciding on, it's when it's introduced to an already pretty successful building company. And they actually didn't raise this as being a problem in their building companies. This building company wasn't actually complaining that they weren't as efficient as they could be. They're actually thinking everything's firing really well. These concepts are so important for us to share with building company owners that we will still walk them through. And this is ideally what a professional building company does. And I think when we introduce it to quite successful building companies, there's maybe a little bit more skepticism thinking that they don't need something like that. But of everyone who has introduced construction slots and stuck to the rules and been able to actually use urgency scarcity and see the profitability come through because of it, no one's regretted it, but I think they'd probably be the most skeptical because I think when you're realizing something's not working, you're actively looking for a solution. A lot of builders are at that point that they're like, yep, let's try it.

There really is no downside, is there, to using this strategy? Is all upside. It's potentially increased margins, and it certainly helps with getting procrastinating clients along across the line.

I think one thing we would get quite a bit is it could upset my clients too much. Like, they want me to start on this day. Like, I can't introduce something like this. And I think what you just said is perfect. There is no downside side because that client is Taking way too much control from the beginning. That sounds like it could end up being a little bit of a nightmare project. They're actually taking control from the beginning, giving them two options. When would you like your start date? The 4th of July or the 7th of August? You get to take control of when those opportunities come.

It helps position the builder in a way that we have campaigned for a long time now as a professional, as a leader, the builder is the expert. The builder needs to be the leader on this project and call the shots. And that's not being a dictator or being unreasonable with the clients, but it's just showing leadership expertise. The builder has been through this before. They know the best way to run and deliver this project, not the client.

I guess the other thing I just thought about as well is what Wouldn't this also share some insight when a builder. It might indicate to a builder when it's time to also grow. Because if you think about it right, and you were talking about capacity planning and everything else and it just hit me right now, if I can only fill two slots at any given period of points and business is great, wouldn't this tool actually create awareness to go maybe next year? We need to get more people on board 100% Bosco.

And this becomes a very important part of the business plan because each year our clients set their plan out for the next 12 months as well as a high level plan for the next three years. And you're absolutely right. If you're planning to grow, then you have to update your construction slots. And that does force you to look at, well, how many projects can we handle at any one time? This will be a key factor in your fixed expenses as to, you know, what you can cope with and you really want to be nudging the top of that all the time to get a maximum return and keep your fixed expense ratio down. So you're absolutely right. It does help you with making that leap. You probably don't want to add one or two jobs really to optimize your fixed expenses. You might want to be adding four or five jobs in the coming 12 months.

So not only is it a strategy or a concept, we're also looking at this as a projection tool in many ways.

Very important part. Yeah.

And I think it's important we understand you're not just projecting construction activity, you are projecting human resource utilization, you're projecting cash flow, you're projecting profitability. All of those things come from getting this side of your business correct. I've even seen it go the other way that when we've applied construction slot planning in a builder's business, they've realized that they actually have capacity they weren't using. And now it puts them in a position where they can sell into that additional capacity without increasing their overheads and maximize the return on the investments that they've made historically. So it really, as Russ said, there isn't a downside. There literally is nothing that we've been able to come up with that makes this not a good idea.

I don't know, maybe the fact that it takes a little bit of work in the beginning, that's maybe the worst thing I can think of.

It's all done for you, isn't it? Inside the portal, it's all mapped out for you.

You can use a good tool. Yeah. You're literally there just calculating your averages and inputting when you would like to start projects and then versus when they're booked.

I think sky just said something that we mustn't gloss over. She used the word like this puts a builder in a position to be able to decide what he wants to do, how he wants to run his business, instead of the other way around. The tail is no longer wagging the dog. He is actually deciding what he's going to do to 2022 proactive, not reactive. Which makes a huge difference in a building business.

How long does it take for builders to see the results happening? Is it something that happens very quickly? Is it something that can be easily managed? Is it hard work at the start and then it gets easier over time?

Well, in terms of sales, builder will see positive results immediately and that's because they've just introduced scarcity urgency into their sales process. You know, it's key and it's like flicking a switch. We've seen with guys, it transforms their sales process, but in terms of optimizing their clients construction cycle to get the full benefit, it will take a full cycle. And by that I mean jobs coming in at the beginning of the construction slot planner making their way right through to the end at handover. And it's only when those jobs that have come in when construction slots have been introduced, it's only when they reach the end of the construction cycle that they're going to see the full benefit of this strategy in their construction funnel.

But.

But they will get a partial benefit right at the beginning at slab stage because they won't have slabs queued at the framing stage as well because they're going to have a more balanced funnel where they won't have to bring in an additional team of carpenters or queue the jobs because their teams can only work on one project at a time. So there are immediate benefits before even the first job enters the construction slot. You know, in terms of sales, there are the early benefits of the jobs going through the early part of the construction. But yeah, the full benefit. It does take time, but hey, it makes a massive difference.

Well, it's interesting because we went into this with planning at the foresight, but we came out of it with some forecasting tools as well. And to quote a very famous president, I think the quote goes with if you fail to plan, you're planning to fail.

One of our favorites.

Well, I want to thank you guys for adding to my university degree in the construction sector. Every time I end up hanging out with you, I end up walking away with a lot of information. Any final words of wisdom from all three of you?

I'll go with my usual one. Nike Just do it. There is no downside. There really isn't. If you're driving in your truck or your ute and you're wondering what this APB thing is all about, jump online, sign up. We've got all of this stuff waiting to really transform your business and your life. Just do it.

Yeah, I'd probably say the same actually. If you were to pick anything to implement of anything you'd listen to on this podcast. So far, of everything, I would probably say construction slots are the easiest to get started with now. So if you want that quick win, just map out your calendar for the next 12 months and then map out what your your capacity is. Do some real capacity planning and it makes your forecasting a hell of a lot easier as well. So yeah, just do it. Just implement those construction slots.

Professional builders use construction slots. That's all I'd say.

Thank you for the tools, the resources and the insights. As always, no problem.

Thanks for having us.

Anytime.

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