30. Hill & Harbor Design+Build’s Journey To Success With Paul Vespia

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Hello and welcome to the Professional Builder Secrets podcast, a podcast by the association of Professional Builders for building company owners, general managers, VPs and emerging leaders. Here we discuss all things running a professional building company from sales, processes, financials, operations and marketing. Welcome, everyone. We have another great episode from the Professional Builder's Secrets podcast. I'm joined today by Paul Vespier, founder of Hill and Harbour Design and Build in East Greenwich in the US how are you today, Paul?

I'm doing great, Bosco. Thank you for having me.

Well, tell us a little bit about Hill and Harbor Design and Build. Sure.

So I started Hill and harbor in basically 2018. I had left a business that I was working for full time. I had a lot of great groundwork that I was working with from previous businesses that I had worked for. So I thought it was really time for me to go out. There was a lot of things that I saw in the business itself that I thought could be changed. One of those things was really to have the client at the forefront and do everything best for the client to get them from point A to point B. In a business like this. I wanted to change the typical experience that clients had in a construction project or a remodeling or a new build for their home.

You talked about the fact that you left a full time job. You pretty much took a leap at that point because, you know, most people, when they get into that entrepreneur mindset, they're going from what we call steady income and a steady paycheck to actually now hustling to build a business. What was that like?

I had always been doing some things on the side as well. You know, interesting thing that people don't see from looking at our website or looking at my bio is I actually dropped out of high school when I was 15 years old and started working, working in this industry. So, you know, the entrepreneurial mindset kind of took that. You know, I was off on my own. I had left my family at that point. So at 15 years old, I was feeding myself and clothing myself. So I kind of always had that drive to do my own thing. You know, in 2018, it was an interesting time because my wife was also, I think four months pregnant at the time. When I actually went out and did my own thing, so that was actually going to be our second child, it was a little stressful. I felt like I had the good groundwork to be able to do so, and I thought I had enough experience to be able to go out there and make it happen.

So you chose this path mostly because there was something inside of you that was sort of burning that wanted you to do something better. To change the industry as well is what I'm getting from this as well.

You hear the nightmare stories from a lot of the. I'm sure you have friends or relatives even that talk about the nightmare stories that they've had during construction projects. And I wanted people to really feel like they were having a great experience from working with us from day one and all the way through their construction project. You know, they're never perfect, but what I've been told is they're 99% better than other projects that they've been through.

I noticed you have a design and build at the end of your company name. Did you always start out with design and build or did it start off with design and then eventually move into build?

So I dropped out of high school like I said, and then I found that I didn't want to work with my hands for the rest of my life. So I had that experience to actually physically build a house. But I got my GED before most of my friends graduated from high school. After that, after working for about five years in the field in different aspects of the business, I actually went back to college and got a degree in architecture and engineering. I've always had that kind of design stuff behind me. When I was in college, I was working for an architect as well, doing conceptual designs and renderings and overall architectural interiors and things like that. So my overall vision for the company was to be an all inclusive one stop shop essentially for anything to do with a home.

Right. Take me through the process of what was like starting out your business and how were you attracting business and getting potential customers back then? I'm sure at that point, you know, being on your own, it must have been pretty intimidating as well.

It was like I had mentioned, I had a lot of great experience from where I had worked a couple of. With one particular business where I was kind of the end person. You know, as soon as somebody came in the door as a lead, I would take it from that point all the way through to finishing the project as the project manager. So I had a lot of those skills necessary to be a sales type person. I Was terrible at it in the beginning. I used to go to meetings with clients and be dripping sweat because I was just so nervous. But that's actually the most fun I have now at this point in my career is actually working with clients in the beginning and sharing how we're doing things so differently. It was a little terrifying. I mean, going out on my own with a baby coming. And you know that women are pretty hormonal at that point when they're having children as well. So that wasn't easy. I'm not blaming anything on her, but there was a lot of very anxiety ridden nights. The funny thing is, our first year in business, we actually did just under a million dollars.

Wow.

So I connected with the right people at the right time. And I know the APB talks a lot about mindset. And I actually stopped drinking in 2014 and started really digging into my life at that point. I had gone through a lot of personal stuff. It was about changing my mindset. From that point until 2018, when I was out, my mindset had shifted in believing in myself and believing in other people and putting your thoughts out there to do something better with your life and the universe kind of opening up for you. At that point, I really felt like that had happened. I think it was two and a half months into me leaving and starting my own business that I had my first project.

Do you feel like this business venture and this choice to sort of go out on your own and then the business performing financially as well, do you feel like that's what prompted you to find your purpose in life in some ways as well?

Yeah. There's a couple of things that I'm working on too. I don't think this business is my ultimate purpose. I think this business is an avenue for me to become the ultimate purpose.

Yeah.

I do love what I do. I'm not saying I would completely just go away. I mean, we do have stressful days and I think everybody does. But the idea is to be able to work with people that love to come to work and help people, give them that opportunity to really do what they love to do. And then I have some other goals in the back of my mind that I'm working towards long term that I think fits my overall purpose in life.

So you feel like this business today is almost like a vehicle to achieve some of those goals as well? In many ways, absolutely.

Yeah.

So you talked a little bit about how you had that classical sales experience where you were sweating and you were anxious as well. Take me through some of those Classic mistakes that you've made to date that you are really proud of. And I say really proud of because most people that I've met in life who have built successful businesses, they always credit a lot of their success back to those mistakes. So I'm just curious, if you look back on your illustrious career, what are some of those mistakes that come to mind, that you look back now and shake your head and go, we'll never make that mistake again, but you're really proud of that mistake.

There's too many to count. The perfectionist in me, I think has been an issue with mistakes in my life and trying to be perfect in this industry is very difficult. So I think a lot of mistakes come from that perfectionism and I still struggle with that a little bit. But that perfectionism, that gives you that anxiety, that gives you that energy and then you're pissed off for two days because of it. I don't think there's one particular instance that I can point out that it was an absolute mistake that I was like, well, I'm never going to do that again. I think it's a combination of day to day interactions that you're working through. You start out as a one man band, essentially a one man show. You have to push through those issues and those mistakes and not get caught up on them. Because if you do, you still have to learn from them and that's how you develop as a person too. But if you sink into those mistakes, that's when it's over, right?

And I noticed when I was doing my research on your website, you articulated the difference between design build versus Design build. And I think for our listeners it's really important to know the difference as well. Are you able to share a little bit about what the key difference are between the two terms?

I think that the industry standard for most projects, bigger projects in either new home builds or bigger renovation projects is in the design bid build method. Somebody will go to an architect or an interior designer and put together drawings, fully design a project and spend a lot of money in that design phase to then send things out to bid to three different contractors. And then you get numbers back as a homeowner and you're expected to kind of go through that and understand the terminology and everything that goes along with it and then be able to choose a contractor from that point too. The issues that we found with that in studying design bid build versus Design build is nobody's on the same page from day one. So in our aspect of design build is everybody's from Day one on the same page. So we're designing the project, we're developing a budget along with that projects. So we're designing and budgeting at the same time. And then we have different players or team members in our business that plug it at certain points. We have a project developer that develops all of the things that go along with either permitting, budgeting, design architecture and interior. And then an interior designer plugs in at a certain point in the design phase. So she's. Because most projects are. They're driven by the women in the project. Right. Most of the time. So we found an opportunity to have a woman be able to kind of take the lead with the woman that's doing the project. And they develop a very symbiotic relationship at that point. And then we have a project manager that plugs in that deals with the construction portion of it. But I think the main difference is I've heard a lot of people talk about the challenges that go along with the design bid, build method because everybody's not on the same page and there's blowouts and budgets and timelines and the client's in the middle of all this trying to manage all of it. We're here to really manage the whole process for the client and take them step by step through that project.

Let's talk about transforming your business a little bit because your business has grown obviously since the days when it was a one man band show. What do you think is the contribution factor that's led to that transformation for your business? And where does Hill and Harbor design and Build look like? What does it look like today?

So the first two years was kind of me alone and I was developing a lot of the business end of things in the background with the thought of scaling at some point. As of today, we have five other team members that are working with us now and we're running nine projects at the moment in construction.

Wow.

Yeah. So we have nine projects in construction. We have another seven, eight. Another eight projects in design. So a total of 17 projects running at one time in all different phases, obviously. But it's really about allowing other people to come into the business and train them appropriately to do what they love to do, but also do it in a way that I know that works. And working with apb, they've helped develop a lot of those processes and stuff along with me and shown me the ways to get from basically 0 to 1 and develop the business as an overall to be able to do it systematically and safely.

I'm going to ask how you Actually landed on meeting the team at the association of Professional Builders. But before we do that, you just threw a number at me that I just went into. How do you do this? But if you've got 17 projects, how do you not pull your hair out at night? Like, do you have this wiz software? Like, how does everything say so succinct? I guess.

I'm meeting with a client tomorrow that is in design, and we've been working with them for about a month. And it's really about processes and systems that allow us to do this. The way that we have our estimating software and our project management software we use. We use build tools as our project management software that's also a client portal. So there's a lot of different systems and processes in place behind the scenes that people never see that help us be able to develop and build projects very effectively and efficiently.

Right. Okay, so tell me about how you came across the association of Professional Builders. You told me earlier today that you were part of their elite coaching, but how did you become a member and.

How do you hear from them in 2019? I wanted to find a business coach or a mentor similar to what I had previously. But I almost have too much pride to go back to the other guy. Even though he's done really well, he's basically doing the same thing that not the same thing that APB does. But he would have helped me if I asked him to. But I was looking to develop into something different than what he was. So in about middle of or late 2019, I started looking at business coaches, and I was looking specifically for construction business coaches. And there was only one or two that I was coming across. And APB really stood out to me because of. And you know, we're talking two, almost three years ago. They had a lot of stuff in place that really made sense to me of how this business should run from what I had learned from my previous mentor and also opened my eyes to a lot of other things that would allow me to grow my business really, really quickly and effectively.

You started off as a member, I'm assuming.

I jumped in right into their coaching. I was a member and I got into their regular coaching program that meets. I actually work with Andy. I've worked with him since day one. And I jumped in with the monthly membership program to be able to develop the business. I'm not sure if they offer anything else right now that's on a lower tier than that, but I really wanted to fast track the growth of the business. And I thought that was the best way to do it was working with somebody like him.

So take me through. You know, I love Andy. I actually learned a lot about the construction industry and even through this podcast I've had the opportunity and privilege of interviewing him a few times. And he's the king of analogies, as I say. But when you're going through the membership and then you start off with the coaching and I think now you're in the elite coaching as well, what's that impact been to your business? You've talked about systems and I know that anyone who joins the association of Professional Builders has this entire portal of resources and systems as well. But really, where did the impact really elevate Hill and Harbor Design and build through the coaching?

Realistically, we started with just me when I was talking, when I started with Andy, and within a two years worth of time, we're now up to six, including me. And that's a testament to doing it effectively and safely and still maintaining the margins and really expanding our business effectively.

So you've seen growth, you've seen revenue growth, you've seen increase in sales, you've seen the ability and systems to run multiple projects. And you've probably also gone through this phase now of being a little bit more financially aware of everything as well, right?

Absolutely. So 2009, 18, we did a million, 2019, I was stuck at a million. I couldn't do any more myself. It was impossible. It's not just a construction company. I was also designing works, doing sales, doing all of this stuff. So the ability to really start focusing on the business itself rather than in the business, I think is what helped develop everything that we've worked on with APB. In looking at financials and KPIs, looking at quarterly goals and yearly goals and three year goals, and developing our employees on some of the stuff that we're working with APB in their portal, working on client stuff. There's so much that goes into this business that people don't realize. If you want to be successful, you can't just go out there and do it yourself. It's nearly impossible. You have to have people. And the best athletes in the world have great coaches. That's the way I look at it. They have a nutrition coach, they have a head coach, they have a physical coach. Whatever it is. I think people that are trying to get to the level of the people that are working with APB understand that and the people that don't, I think will struggle a lot through their career.

What really impresses me being on the outside in is their passion and commitment to really changing the industry because the industry in the past has had a stigma and, you know, they're really committed to, to driving that professional outlook and output as well from this industry. Who do you think this elite coaching is for? If you look back now, obviously you've been there for a while and you've worked with them and you've broke your million as well, because that was a barrier at one point. What type of builder could really benefit from the type of coaching you've received?

I think anybody that's stepped up into the membership, monthly membership program that people are working on and working through their development of their business and themselves. I'm sure this podcast reaches a lot of people. So I think anybody really that wants to have a successful career and not feel like they're in a daily grind every single day and trying to figure out everything themselves could very much benefit from everything that APB does. Like you said, the professionalism and the thing is with them too, that I've seen from day one is I've worked with Andy, like I said, and he actually cares about the people that he's working with. It's not just a coach type thing. Him and I talk about a lot of different things. And for somebody that wants to really develop their business, I have reasons why I'm kind of on a fast track to try and do that. But other people that are being successful in what they're doing, I would highly suggest investing the money into developing yourself and your business with this type of program because it just takes you to the next level. It gets you out of the mindset of being in the day to day and really looking at the overall business and the impact that you can potentially make.

Something that really echoes to me is when you said that you're investing not in just a coach and in a person. Because even when I've been chatting with Andy, what I've learned as well is that he can't do 8, 10, 15 coaching sessions in one day because he literally puts so much energy and all the coaches put a lot of energy into it that they need a gap in between to process and get back because they're giving their energy. It's not just their insights. Right. So yeah, you're right. I think it's a difference between being coached and having someone that's there by your side as well. It sounds like you're having a lot of fun right now and it sounds like you're a lot more relaxed today as well with where you're at. What do you love about running this company and where it's going today? And obviously you've seen this transformation, but what wakes you up in the morning and gets you excited to do the work you do today?

I think I may have touched on it. It's about having the opportunity to give other people the opportunity to do what they love. I really think that's truly it. This business isn't just about me anymore. It really hasn't been since day one. I've tried to set it up that way. I'm trying to set this up as a brand rather than a personal face that goes along with a lot of businesses that you see nowadays. It's kind of based on one person. I don't want it to be that overarching one person business, that it's only doing something good for one person that's in the business. I want it to be a part of everybody that's here to help build Hill and Harbor Design build. It's about them enjoying what they're doing, enjoying the clients that they're working with and being able to financially be impacted by that too. The growth of the business isn't just for me, it's for them as well.

You talk a little bit about building that brand. That's where you're driving into what's the future play for this brand and what are you focusing on today to try to fuse that future?

I deal a lot with clients in the beginning of projects to get them into our process. It's not as difficult as it was when I was first starting out. We've built a great reputation at this point. My idea is to develop the business and systemize it so it becomes almost like a franchise type business. Not that I want to franchise it. It's the overall vision that I'm seeing is the ability to plug this in different areas of the country. Meaning, you know, up in Boston, Massachusetts or down in D.C. in Florida and have these what I call pods that we basically can set up the business and have the business run exactly like it is in Rhode island, where it started. It has the overall arching brand, but it has its own niche market in that particular area too. You know the reason why I named Hill and Harbor what it is, it's actually a historic district that's in East Greenwich, Rhode Island. But I also named it because of that, because of the houses that we wanted to work on. Traditionally up in the Hill is where the historic homes are nowadays and then down in the harbor are the coastal homes that we work on for our.

Australian listeners as well. Historic homes are almost like heritage homes, is that correct?

Exactly. Yep. Okay, so heritage homes, you know, we work on a lot of houses that were built probably a lot newer than some of the ones that are in Australia. But I think the latest one that we've worked on was 1760. So we work on anything from the historic standpoint, but we work on very particular homes. That's the idea is to be able to plug that in in other areas, like down in Virginia as well. There's a lot of areas that have a coastal aspect of their area. And then also up in the hill, per se, is the historic or heritage homes.

And so you're looking at market expansion in the future as well in different geographical areas. Is that something that's on the horizon, I guess as well?

Yeah, that's exactly it. So the idea is to systemize it and systemize the business completely so it's consistently running the way that we would like it to and then start plugging it in in different areas.

Let's talk a little bit about the industry. You know, you've brought about some. Some interesting concepts, but, you know, obviously we are living in an unprecedented time, as they say. But what are some of the struggles that builders face today in the industry as well? And for the new builders getting into this industry, what are some of those common challenges and barriers that they have to overcome?

I think there's a huge issue with the pandemic, obviously, and the effects that that's taking on the industry itself. I mean, costs have skyrocketed, but it seems like people are still spending money, which is really interesting to me. There's also a huge labor shortage. I think a lot of people have been talking about it for the last 20 to 30 years. And it's upon us now. The baby boomers are retiring. Not a lot of people are coming in to fill those gaps.

Tell me a little about the perspective around the labor shortages as well. What do you feel is the problem? Is there lack of apprenticeships that companies need to put together? Is there lack of training in schools? Where is the shortage being fueled by?

Because this industry has such a stigma, even people of my age with parents that are in the baby boomer range, they had seen some of their parents working in this industry, and it was very unsexy. Right. It was not a clean job. It's not sitting behind a computer. I think a lot of the Americans, and I can only speak to the Americans because that's where I live. I'm not sure if this is the same in Canada or Australia, but it seems like it's very unsexy type industry that people don't want to go out and get dirty and work hard. And like I said, I think there's a huge opportunity for people that want to kind of grind like you and I were talking about in the beginning to build great businesses because there's not a lot of people going into this business.

Tell me a little bit, Paul, about what your advice would be be to the builders out there, both new and the veterans out there, to transform their business. You've seen it from different perspectives. Being in the business as a one man band and then growing it. What's your perspective for them from the outset?

I think you need to be learning from everybody around you, the right people, you know, working with somebody to help you develop this business. If this is something that you really want to do and not be the guy out of the back of the truck and really develop a business that can allow you to do a lot more things with your life. I think you truly need somebody like the association of Professional Builders to help you through that process and invest in the beginning days. I know it's tough with financials, but if you don't invest in yourself with either self help or other forms of that, like a coaching program, it's very difficult for people that have those aspirations of, of driving a business to be better and bigger and do more things for their lifestyle. I think it's very difficult if you don't do those things. Even the veteran builders too, the guys that are out in the field still and physically building houses and doing renovation projects, there's a time where they've built a very good reputation as well from that aspect of it. I don't think it's ever too late to be able to transition and transform your business. I always kind of think back to the KFC model Kentucky Fried Chicken, where the colonel per se, he didn't create that business until he was in his late 60s. I think there's always an opportunity, especially in this business right now, to transform your business pretty quickly. I mean, we're talking, I started in 2018. We're projected to do 6.5 million this year and we're looking on taking on other team members too.

But it sounds like you've put a lot of love into this as well. Because I think for me the takeaway that I'm getting from this is you went from being a one man band to growing the team. So that comes with a lot of trust, a Lot of trial and error. Getting the right dynamics and culture, and also having someone by the side to give you the systems, to give you the resource and the knowledge has really changed a lot of what you're doing today as well.

I've put in a lot of work to get to this point.

Do you feel you're at a stage now where you're on the business, not in the business as well?

I'm still straddling.

Okay. I appreciate your honesty, that's for sure. Well, look, let's talk a little bit about the industry. You talked a little bit about the labor shortage, and you talked about the fact that people are investing in homes, even though the costs are driving. Do you feel that that's being driven by the fact that there's a lot more remote, hybrid working people from home, and so they want to have a home that they can work and live in at the same time as well? Do you think that's Dr. Driving it?

Absolutely. And I think it touches on a lot of the type of people or type of clients that we work with as well, because a lot of the surrounding area in Rhode island is all coastline. So with the ability to work remotely, we're seeing a huge influx of people coming in from bigger cities that were scared of the pandemic, but also saying, I can work from anywhere now. I can go buy a waterfront property in Rhode island for the same amount that I would pay for a condo in New York City. Why wouldn't I do that? So there's been a huge influx of people from different areas of the country coming into my. Our area particularly, that have invested a huge amount of money into their properties because they're there all the time. They want the beautiful professional kitchen and a great office that they can get away from everybody and an area for the kids and a gym and all these other things. The home has become what I think it used to be. Meaning before everybody started going into offices and people were working in the farms or on the land or even in their own stores. You still see some of them on Main Streets in America, where people would live above the store that they would work in that they owned. It's kind of transitioned back to that, which is really interesting because people are working in the office in a basement or the second level, but they have their own gym in the house and they have the kids area where they can do homework and they have a library. And it's really become a holistic home again, rather than it just being a place where you sleep.

Right. Hard question to Ask, obviously, with everything that's going on, but where do you feel the state of the residential industry is evolving to in the US Specifically?

I think people are expecting more and I think that's where we're trying to take it as well. People want the experience. They want kind of a white glove service, they want it done for them. A lot of businesses have been built on that up until this point in different industries where it's kind of that red carpet type white glove service. So I think that's kind of where I believe it's transitioning to. It is a certain market of the business. You know, people don't want to worry about the process and the project. They want somebody to handle that for them. At least in the market that we are in, those clientele are expecting more from us, which is completely fine because I think that's going to drive a transition in the way that this business is for other markets as well. And I think association of Professional Builders is developing that with the people that they're working with right now too.

Yeah, I know it's really impressive to see the things that are coming out of there as well. And it sounds like it's creating this accountability which the industry needs as well. So let's talk a little bit about success mindsets. Right? So at the time you wanted to break a million, you've grown the team, you've cracked 6.5, which is, you know, you're projected to crack 6.5. What does success look like to you today? Not when you started, but today, when you wake up in the morning. How do you create that gauge, that barometer for success? Today?

It's changed dramatically. Initially, when we started out, it was about dollars. Andy and I have worked a lot on this through our process together. It's a part of my life too. Right now I have two little ones, you know, and a wife. And my success is being able to walk out the door at 4 o' clock and go spend time with my kids and my wife. I only get a certain amount of time that they're going to be four and two years old.

Yeah, fair enough.

Yeah. So that's truly what how I'm looking at. We've. And that's where I wanted to be too, when I initially came on with working with the association, or apb, is I wanted to get to a point where the business was successfully running itself, where I would plug in where I wanted to be, and then I would be able to spend as much time as possible with my kids and go to all the Baseball games and go to all the dance recitals and do all of that stuff with them.

I was going to ask you about the future of Hill and Harbor design and build, but you've already answered that from a geographical perspective. So I'm going to ask you a past question rather than the future question, which is if you had to go back in time and you had to give yourself a younger version of yourself, some advice, at what point in your life would you go back in time to and what advice would you give?

That's a tough one. It's kind of what I already touched on. It was not to be too hard on yourself.

Fair enough. That's good advice as well. And it's an industry that you are your harshest critic and you can be very isolating. So I think that's some really sound advice. I'm just curious. Matt, before we end this interview, I've been looking at a quote behind you that's on the wall. Obviously it means something to you, which is why it's up there, but I'm just curious what it says and what does it mean to you?

Well, there's actually four of them up there, and this is from a book that the APB actually asks or put up on their program for us to read. Right. And don't make assumptions, don't take anything personally, be impeccable with your word and always do your best. So it's.

That's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. I think Andy and the team would be really happy that you actually have that on there on the wall. So that's. That's really cool. Yeah.

Andy's actually saw. Seen that. So that was something. When we first moved into this office, I put up on the wall.

Amazing.

That's client facing. You know, clients sit at the table there.

Yeah.

And are able to see that. And that's really what we're trying to live by, not just in the business, but in life in general. I think it's helpful to try and be a better person every day.

Any final words of wisdom before we wrap this up, Paul?

The people that are just starting out, I think like you said, having that success mindset and really believing in yourself, it can go a long way. I came from absolutely nothing. I had a good family growing up to a certain point, but then I had to take things on myself to be able to get to the next level in life. And I work with those people around you that you want to be around and learn from them and have a plan. Keep moving.

Some inspiring words to live by. My friend and I want to thank you today for your time and your energy and for exposing, you know, a little bit about your past and your story as well. It's very inspiring to see where you've come and where you're going as well. But, you know, really appreciate the candor as well. Thank you.

I appreciate it. Bosco.

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