40. Looking After Your Mental Health With Tim Hoopmann

Around 21 to 25% of construction workers have had a mental health condition that's really high. Suicide risk is incredibly high in the building industry, and that's so sad. Mental health is not a weakness. We cannot outsource it.

Tell me more.

Looking after your mental health is not a selfish act.

You don't have to struggle in silence.

How can you be in a situation of supporting others when you're not looking after yourself?

This is Professional Builder Secrets, the number one podcast to help you grow your building company safely and securely, brought to you by the association of Professional Builders. Join us every week as we talk to industry experts and your fellow professional builders on everything you need to know to generate more leads, more sales and higher margins while improving the building experience for your clients. Hello and welcome to the Professional Builder Secrets podcast, a podcast by the association of Professional Builders for building company owners, general managers, VPs and emerging leaders. Here we discuss all things running a professional building company from sales processes, financials, operations and marketing. Hello and welcome. I'm joined today by Tim Hoopman, speaker for Beyond Blue. Tim, thanks for being here today.

Thanks very much, Bosco. Always a pleasure.

Well, Tim, let's start off with a little bit about your role with Beyond Blue and a little bit about the organization for our listeners out there.

I joined Beyond Blue on their speaker network about four and a half years ago, and I've done a lot of great things in my life and this is up there with them talking about mental health, helping people think differently, take care of themselves, perhaps remove some stigma. All those things are great outcomes of talking about better mental health. So I've been very, very fortunate to get to do that and on wonderful sessions like today, but also in many and very different situations for organizations, small business in particular, which I think we'll be talking a lot about today. That's been a great joy for me in the last four and a half years. And beyondblue is just an amazing organization. There is a lot of organizations that talk about mental health and do some great, have great resources and do some great work. I've obviously spent a lot of time with BeyondBlue, and I can say absolutely, that is one of the nicest organizations I've dealt with in my career. They have wonderful, genuine people there. They care about everything they do, and they're working tirelessly to help people become aware of things such as depression, anxiety and suicide prevention and really offer them resources and information that can help each and every one of us every day take care of ourselves better.

I can hear the Pride and passion for what you do. Through you introducing a little bit about the role and the organization. How has the last few years impacted mental health for everyone in the workforce? We've obviously had so much going on. Tell me a little bit about your perspective on how the workforce has been impacted by this.

I'd probably start off with the word wow. Who would have thought in even at the beginning of 2020 that the following two years would have been like they were? And for so many people, they've probably never seen anything like this in terms of disruption, in terms of change, in terms of things like uncertainty, fear, in some cases anger. Just do you look back on it now and it's just about unbelievable to comprehend. And if someone had said to you or I like four years ago, in two years, this is going to happen, we probably would have gone, yeah, yeah, that's. Yep, okay, that's going to be put in that conspiracy theory box. But certainly it's had a dramatic effect on people. I think there's a couple of things around the impact. One is each and every person. It's been obviously similar, but completely different. And I think that's one of the main things that I've learned from the last two years. Everybody's journey or reaction or impact from the last two years in the coronavirus has been different. And it's really important to remember that in every conversation that we have with someone, and it's what I've seen firsthand doing a lot of talks for beyondblue is a lot of people have been impacted dramatically. Upheaval in work. I talked a bit about fear and anger and all of those sort of emotions that came out for people. Really tough for a lot of people. A lot of people felt a complete lack of control. And control is something planning and organizing is something that's really important to me. So when someone takes the control away, it becomes quite challenging. And I think for most people, we've seen that in the past two years.

What have you observed specifically in the building industry or the residential building industry? We've seen the news from around the world and you had workforces disrupted, you had different sides of the coin and perspectives about the choice of how to live through this pandemic age. And in turn, that also impacted a lot of residential business owners. What was your key observation around that area?

One of the things that I've been able to do in conjunction with beyondblue is work with different industries and different channels. So we're now today talking about the building industry. But if you think about the travel industry, think about hospitality. Each and every one of those industries has been impacted very differently than others. Some industries have done incredibly well and others have been impacted catastrophically. Interestingly, with the building industry, maybe some people, if you were to ask them, would say they should have been okay. They were allowed to open, they were allowed to operate, they should be okay. But as I said before, I've watched many industries be impacted very differently. And I think from the building industry's perspective, again, there's been a lot of uncertainty. There's been a lot of global impacts that have had dramatic effects. Supply chain materials, people, the large building companies in financial trouble, that has a flow on effect right through the industry down to the small individual sole trader, operator. So just because someone could look at an industry such as building, oh, they got to operate, doesn't mean that that operation was successful. I've heard them talk a little bit in that industry about the profitless boom. I have firsthand seen operators, business owners, struggle to share with their customers the dramatic changes in prices, materials I can't get for you, delays, the cost is going up. All of those things are not the fault of the individual operator, just the impact, in this case of the coronavirus. And often they're having to bear that burden and pass that information on. And it's really challenging. So I think on the outset it might seem that they've been okay. But then when you dig a little deeper and you think about the last two years and then you think about prior to that, the fires post that the floods, they have been attacked from many angles. And I think again, going back to what I was saying before about each individual and each industry's been impacted differently. We need to be very mindful of that whenever we're having conversations with people.

Yeah. And it sounds like it really toughens you up as well because there's so many different entities that you're dealing with and you're trying to run a business in this time of uncertainty. It definitely leaves a lot of conversations that you're having internally, internal dialogues as well. Like you, I've shared the stage and we're both speakers. I've also lived across a few different continents, but I think it's safe to say that in my time of living on this planet, the topic and the conversation around mental health has really been at the forefront in the last few years. This has been going on for years, but there's a bigger conversation out there and with your passion for speaking, one of the things is bringing awareness to an audience and I was just curious, what. What does everyone need to know about mental health? And what is the message that you take when you're informing an audience on a global stage and on a national stage as well? What is the one thing that you like people to know about mental health?

I think you've really highlighted the fact that in the past number of years, five, maybe a little more, there's been a great focus on mental health and there's been a lot of discussion. That discussion has gone on everywhere. So governments, media, corporations, sporting institutes. So it's great to see it top of mind and people openly talking about it. I think that's the first thing. And therefore that opens up opportunities for Beyond Blue and everybody associated with that organization and me as a speaker to be able to stand and have great opportunity to talk. Probably, if you thought about maybe 10 years ago, I don't know whether there would have been even webinars like this or discussions around this as prolific as there are now. So I think that's a really, really positive move forward. What does everybody need to know about mental health? They need. I think for me personally, one of the key things that I have learned is that, like our physical health, we need to take care of our mental health and we need to do it consistently. And that consistently, in my view, is daily. A lot of people have gym memberships, they're in sporting clubs, they do all sorts of physical things. They'll spend time and effort and money and all sorts of wonderful things to look after their physical health. And you ask them, what have you done today about your mental health? And they'll go, what do you mean by that? Some might say, well, I'm looking after my physical health, so that helps my mental health tick. I absolutely agree with that. And we'll probably get to talk a little bit about that throughout our session this morning. But we need to take care of our mental health. It's paramount. It can't be just left to the day when you're really not feeling well. The stress levels have built up immensely and you are struggling. That is not the day to start thinking about your mental health. The day to start thinking about your mental health is today. And today might be a great day. And today you might be feeling really good. And just like your physical health, you still go to the gym even when you are really fit, or you still run in that running club even when you are really fit, because you probably want to get a bit fitter. So think about your mental health as something that you need to deal with every single day and put it up there with your focus on other key important things in your life.

Being a speaker, you probably get to meet some incredible people from all walks of life and you get to travel around and really stand for a really important and meaningful cause. Are there any common misconceptions around mental health that people need to be aware of? Or is this something that you have to constantly demystify or break some of those myths around mental health?

One of the things I really love doing in this demystifying or talking about mental health is when we talk about the fact that our mental health is not a static state. Ten years ago, five years, ten years ago, someone asked me about mental health. I would have gone. Probably a couple of different things. I would have gone, yeah, yeah, that's okay. Everything's fine. I'm not someone that's going to struggle with mental health issues. I'm in control and I'm fit and healthy and I'm mentally healthy. And what I've learned is that it's not a static state. I'm not mentally healthy today, and maybe down the track, mentally not healthy. It's not a static state. We move and I think there's a mental health continuum slide that beyondblue use if you want to find it would be on their website. And it talks about the continuum and it talks about the fact that it's not a static state. And every day we can feel a little different. We might wake up and we might be flourishing, we might be really engaged, we might be feeling great, we might be healthy, we can work really well. We feel great at home, we're out doing some exercise and we're really, really in a great space. But then other days we may not. And there's a couple of things that I've learned. One is that because it's not a static state, every day doesn't have to be. Well, I'm feeling a really fantastic day. Some days we can have an off day, and that's okay. And don't punish yourself if you do, because you're probably moving around. I can tell you now, in the past two years, I have moved along the mental health continuum more than I have probably the previous three because of everything that was impacting us. I saw, well, in particular the pandemic and the fear around that. And oh, my God, are we all going to live or are we all going to not live? Or what's going to happen? Are we all going to be stuck in our house for extended period of time? Can we not see our family and friends. So there was a lot of challenges and fear around that. So I moved along that continuum more than I did. But one of the things that I've learned is not to punish myself when I do, but to keep monitoring and keep myself, keep checking in on myself. So when you're moving along that you might start to, you know, there'd be more stress in your life, you might start to move along, you might be heading towards a little bit at risk or struggling. If it's happening for a continual period of time, then for some people, they'll need to go and get help. And the other end of the continuum is, you know, severe impact. So you really need help immediately. And that's not a failure either. So as we move on this continuum, it's really important to keep monitoring how we're feeling. Don't punish ourselves. Understand that we do move, but do some things in your life. We talked about physical health and our mental health. Do some things in your life that help keep you in check. However, if things get a little tough, if you're moving along that scale for longer periods of time, you are struggling, then perhaps it's time to get help. And that's not a failure either.

Is there a toolkit or roadmap to taking care of mental health? Why is self care so important today for the workforce and for the builders that are listening to this podcast?

I'm sorry, I'm laughing a little bit because a lot of the talks I do for beyond, when they introduce me, they go, Tim loves to talk about his mental health toolkit. You know, it's something that I've developed over time through learning from other people. I didn't come up with it myself, but I really believe that self care is really important. Small business owners have many challenges, so more than anyone, they need to look after themselves and developing resilience, being able to cope at times when our stress levels increase because stress is a part of every day for everyone and we need to learn how to deal with that, that stress, as I said before, becomes too much, then it's time to get help. However, in most cases, if we're building resilience, if we understand what our stressor triggers are in our life, then we can easily go about building a mental health toolkit. And I think that that's something that I've learned to do and in particular over the last year I've gone back to. So, yes, it's very, very important. And would you like me just to touch briefly on the mental health toolkit?

Yes, please.

I Talk about it in terms of four areas. Lifestyle, exercise, sleep and diet. Doesn't get much more simpler than that. We've talked about physical health. Exercise for me is really important, that whole lifestyle. So making sure that exercise, sleep and diet, things like hobbies are all part of your everyday. Now some people might go, well, that's pretty basic. It's really basic. But a lot of people forget about it. You talk to people and they, you know, when the things get tough, they don't go to that sport club, they don't go to the gym, they make time for other things and they sacrifice that. You know, the exercise, they're not sleeping well or they're not eating right. Some of those basic things have really high impact on our mental health. So I really love going exercise, sleep and diet. Kids, let's get into that and let's make that part of our everyday. Then when it comes to social, what we've seen over the past couple of years is that a lot of that social has been removed and it's had high impact on us. We are social creatures. Whether we spend a little time or a lot of time with other people, we are social people. And most people get energized from being around others. So that social connection is really important. Being out connecting with people, that could be again, in a work environment, it could be in a social environment, but it could also be like through your sport or clubs or hobbies or volunteering or whatever it is you do. Social is really important. And one of the things I always say to people is when you're out and about, thank people for what they do and see how much joy it brings you, but also how much joy it brings them. Thoughts. Doing our best to keep our thoughts as positive as possible is really important. Now that's not about being. Tim's incredibly optimistic. It's about Tim thinking positively about most things. It's about going into any situation and trying to do my best to look for the good in it or the better in it. Not focusing on the negative. That's been hard again over the last two years with everything that's been going on. And I found myself falling into the whole somewhat negative thinking, fear and anger and will this ever get. Will there ever be an end? And why is this happening to me? And that's not fair. All of those are real. But how do we change that around. One of the great things to do is gratitude, and I would encourage everyone to try that every day. I've told people how I practice gratitude is. I often say it out loud. Probably not in the middle of the supermarket when everyone can hear me, but I do it in the morning. I love to swim. I swim year round in the cold water because I love it. It's good for my mental health, it's good for my immune system. And at the end of that I just look out at the ocean or into the sky and I just sometimes talk loudly about what I'm grateful for or I think it through. But sometimes saying it out loud brings a real presence to has a profound effect and I would encourage people to give it a try. It really helps me and I'm sure it'll help other people, but you've got to again do it consistently. And then finally with work, one of the key things there is boundaries. As small business owners, we could work 10, 12, 15 hours a day, but who is that really serving? Is that really making your business more successful? Is it the best thing for you? And I think those work boundaries in particular are really important. And we've seen over the past two years that a lot of people have burnt themselves out feeling guilty for situations or trying harder or trying to fix something that has broken. And while it's important to focus on things, it's also important to have those boundaries around so that you can then go and focus on your lifestyle, your social and self care.

So you've got the lifestyle, the social, the thoughts and the boundaries. That's sort of part of that toolkit.

Yeah. So for me that's. And I go to different things. So I'll give you a quick little example coming out of the really bizarre thing. When we were coming out of lockdown in Sydney last year, after I think it was 10 or 12 weeks and we knew when it was going to happen, I started to feel really uncomfortable and I wasn't really happy. And I'm like, get a hold of yourself, Tim. Like we're coming out of that. But those feelings were real for me and I didn't understand why. So I was at home, I was working and I thought, okay, I've got a choice now. This is all really confusing for me. I should be really happy, but I'm not. What's going on? So instead of punishing myself, I stopped. It was coming up to lunchtime, I stopped, I ride a little Vespa, I got on that, I went and bought some lunch and I went and sat down by the ocean and I just took some time to be present. Oceans are a very important place for me because it's very calming for me. So I just sat there and I ate my lunch and I just took some time and set out. And then I went back home and I felt a lot better now. I had a choice. I could continue working. I could go. Those feelings are rubbish, Tim. How you can't. How ungrateful are you? Because we're coming out of lockdown. I could have punished myself or I could have stepped away from the situation and gone to my mental health toolkit and gone. What are one or two things that I could do now that might help me? And getting on my scooter, getting some lunch and going sitting by the ocean is one of them. So I had a choice and I chose. And guess what? I started to feel better.

It's amazing. You talk about the outdoors, too. I remember when we were going through lockdown as well, and there was a few moments where I actually had the opportunity to get on the beach and it just changed my perspective, my demeanor. I've actually had the luxury of walking down Bondi beach and passing through the icebergs as well. And you have some of the most incredible sunsets around there as well. So I can see how that can play an impact as well for you. BeyondBlue is an organization for Australians. I guess it's on a national level and I'm sure for our builders out there in the US and New Zealand and all the other parts of the world, there's an emergence of so many amazing organizations out there. But I think sometimes people often feel like there's not a lot of support or they're not aware of a lot of support. And sometimes that support can be from a friend or a neighbor. In your opinion, what support is there for building companies, their workforces, building owners, the people that work on the front lines? What support do they have? Or where should they look for support is probably the better question.

One of the things that I've learned in the past four and a half years with BeyondBlue is that there is a myriad of resources, there's a myriad of support for people, and sometimes it's quite hard finding that. Where do I go? What do I do? I think that beyondblue's done an amazing job in particular over the last few years in bringing to the fore, in a lot of cases through social media, what resources they have. So I'll just. I'll touch on a couple and no matter where you are, you can still access these. One is they had a. Developed a coronavirus.BeyondBlue.orgau website. So that spoke specifically about challenges during coronavirus. And a lot of those were around working from home and how we deal with that. And for your employers, but also for yourself, how do you deal with the fear, the social anxiety that's around? There's a whole lot of really great stuff. They also have online chat and forums. So different people like to get their support or their help in different ways. Some people like to pick up the phone and talk to somebody. Somebody likes to go to a friend, somebody likes shereed. Somebody might like open forum or a chat room. So I think that what's really good is there's lots of variety so people can choose something that they're most comfortable with. The other one that I discovered a number of years ago was headsup.org au that's a website done in conjunction with beyondblue and it has unbelievable resources for small business owners or business owners, stuff about you as a leader, also a lot of things about your employees and if you've got team leaders and sometimes it's a great spot to send your employees to research or have a look at something that they're feeling challenged about. So the Coronavirus website's great. The heads up.org au and then in Australia, Beyond Blue over the last couple of years have produced a program called New Access for Small Business. I think we're going to talk a little bit about that a bit further, but that is only in Australia and it is only for small business owners. If you have under 20 staff, it is an amazing program. I think we'll get to touch on that soon. First and foremost, everybody remember that support is available. It comes in very many different forms. No matter where you are, you can access in the world, you can access the BeyondBlue resources and take a little bit of time to perhaps have a Look at that coronavirus.BeyondBlue.org AU website or the HeadsUp.org AU website. Because sometimes when you're in a situation and you know about a resource suggesting to someone that they could read about it or access, that can be a great thing to do.

Is they a role for residential building company owners to play to support their staff and their workforces when it comes to mental health?

Absolutely. And guess where it starts?

What does it look like?

It starts with you. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, sorry, I just. I need to kind of take a breath because what often we all forget, and I've done this as a small business owner in my time, is we think about everybody else but ourselves. So how do we support our staff, our suppliers, our clients? How do we take care of other people? We do that by taking caring ourselves first and self care. Looking after your mental health is not a selfish act. It is not you being selfish to other people because you're doing looking after yourself first. How can you be in a situation of supporting others when you're not looking after yourself? Just think about the building industry. So if I'm a builder and I have staff working for me and I don't know how to build, then when some of them comes to me and ask me how to build or how to do this join or whatever it is in the industry, how can I help them if I don't know what I'm doing myself? Some people might say, well, you don't need to. I can get somebody else who's more professional. Fine. I kind of think with mental health there's no way out other than self care and look after yourself first. When you look after yourself, when you do some of the things that we talked about in terms of the mental health toolkit, when you're understanding the mental health continuum, when you're looking after yourself and when you're thinking about you as being a really important person in your life, in your family's life, in your business life, and you're looking after you, then you can then be in the best frame of mind to help people around you, but not only help them and support them, but also be aware when something might be changing for your team or someone important to you.

There's this observation where people sometimes feel like they must fix things around mental health and sometimes that has different opinions and thoughts around that statement. Is there a healthier version or alternative to fixing mental health in your opinion?

I think that's a really valid point. I've spoken to a number of people that have a fear around bringing up the subject of mental health, be that in our work environment or in a social or even in a family environment. But if you think about a business, sometimes as business owners, what's our job? Every day we fix things. People bring us problems, we fix the problem so often, then when we're in a situation where we might find that somebody in our team is struggling, we might not know exactly what it's for. It might be predominantly stress that's led to perhaps some mental health conditions, but we're not really sure. Of course we're not, because we're not a clinical psychologist, we're not a medical practitioner. So there's a couple of things there. One is that in my view, it's not my job to fix somebody. What my job to do is, if I see a work colleague or someone that's struggling is to support them. So you can support them in a couple of really key ways. Acknowledging and talking to them and asking them some questions and checking in with them and are you okay? And I've noticed that you seem a little absent lately or whatever it is that you've done that you've noticed about them that is genuine. That's often the best place to start. If they open up to you and they want help, then already this morning I've talked about resources and access to information and the mental health continuum and a few of the other things. The more we as individuals understand mental health, understand some of the signs and symptoms, understand what resources are available, then when somebody like that, perhaps in our team is struggling, when we may feel confident to have a conversation with them, they might open up, then one of the best things we can help them with is perhaps suggest that there are some great resources and support out there. And this is one that I've heard about. I heard a guy from beyondblue talk about X, Y and Z the other day, the mental health continuum or his mental health toolkit or headsup.org I've had a look on there. There's a couple of things that might be helpful for you or simply have you checked in with your GP lately. But also remember that often we want to fix things. But if somebody is saying to you I'm okay, then that's their answer. No matter what we think, no matter what we feel might be going on, that's okay. Then what we can do is say we are here for you. If you ever need to talk, then.

Beyondblue is one of those amazing organizations for the workforce, for builders, for small businesses in Australia as there are so many organizations around in the world. What are some of the initiatives that are really helping to empower the building industry here in Australia and that you're really proud of?

Coming up in the last two years, BeyondBlue have developed a program called New Access for small business owners. Sometimes it's called Nasbo Nasbo, but that new access program started the beginning of 2021. I was very fortunate, along with another lot of key small business owners to be part of the stakeholder group helping them develop it. I certainly don't run it. I've got some great coaches that do that. But what I've seen developed is a unbelievable, powerful program aimed directly at small business owners. Because remember just earlier on I was talking about the fact that often as small business owners, we try and fix and help Everybody else, and we often leave ourselves last. We're often sometimes very good. If our business hits a bit of a, you know, maybe a rough patch where a lot of people are on their phone to their accountant, they've got their bookkeeper, they might have a coach, they've got some great resources around them, so great support. But when we as an individual business owner hit maybe a rough patch, we go, don't have time for that. Got to focus on the business, get the accountant on board. What are we doing? Got to help, got to help the team, got to bring in sales. So a lot of it's so much focused on everybody else. So here's a program that recognizes that sometimes we as small business owners hit a rough patch and we need help. And getting help is the best thing we can do when things are tough. I have been in situations in the past where I have gone to myself, suck it up, Tim, get on with it. You're a bloke. Just ignore that and get on with it. Big mistake. Really big mistake. And I learned the hard way. So that's why I love talking about how people should take care of themselves and get support early. So if you feel like you're in a situation like that, this great program is available in Australia. You need to be a small business owner, so it must be you. You can't kind of give it to your staff because they're struggling a bit. And one of the really key things about it is it's free. And that's just amazing again for small business owners because sometimes things are a bit tight, cash flow might be tough. We go, we can't afford to do that. So specifically developed for small business owners, been running last year, it runs to the end of December 2022. The coaches are professional people that have a small business background and expertise. They're not clinical psychologists or anything like that. It's 100% confidential and there's no doctor's referral required. And again, I've seen firsthand, people in small business not want to go to their doctor about an issue because they're afraid of the impact for insurance or all sorts of things in their business. So you don't need a referral, it's clinically backed. And the great thing about it is you apply, you go through a program, they discuss things with you, they do an assessment and they set about six coaching sessions just for you. They're available from 8am to 8pm and Monday to Friday. It does take into recognition that sometimes business owners are need to do it after hours and it has had incredible success. People feel empowered, they feel supported, they feel safe, they feel like they can pick themselves up now. And you know, I've even heard people say after even a couple of sessions they're feeling like they're starting to get back on track. Now again, you may go through this program and you still might need help. And that's not a weakness, but the program's great. New access for small business. If you googled Beyond Blue New access for small Business, it would pop up. You can phone them, email them, I think maybe through their website. It is amazing and I have heard from coaches and I've heard from people that have been through the program and the reports are awesome.

It's really incredible and amazing to hear that there's that support and I'm hoping that this support also exists in other countries throughout other amazing organizations initiatives as well. Let's take the conversation to your perspective on the industry and where we are right now in the world. In a world of so much uncertainty, we're still in that phase of uncertainty. How do we manage and navigate ourselves through the day to day challenges that life throws at us?

We build resilience.

Tell me more.

I did a talk just recently for an organization and one of the things that I was really clear on is I couldn't fix their problems. I didn't come to the talk with some superpower that could change their industry or their issues or their challenges. But what I could do is I could talk to them about the fact that we all have stress in our life. We all need to navigate daily challenges and we can best do that by building resilience, taking care of ourselves and making sure that we know what the key triggers are in our life that increase our stress. So for Tim, they were very different from the next business owner or the next person. What impacts me will be different to what impacts other people. We might have similarities. So understanding and digging deep and knowing in particular in your small business, what are your stresses? What are the triggers that really increase your stress level or anxiety? Once you know that, then you can build around that activities and things to do back to the mental health toolkit that will help you build resilience. So when those tough times come and they will come and they will continue to come. And I don't need to tell any of the listeners out there who are small business owners that it can be tough and it can be challenging because we've all, we are in it, we've all experienced it, but we love running our own business. So that far outweighs the challenges that come. But we need to build that resilience. We need to understand what the triggers are in our life and we need to know what's in our mental health toolkit that we can go to that will just help us get through a day or a week. That's really challenging.

How do you see us reframing the narrative around the mental health conversation and where does it begin? Is it a conversation that needs to be had in school, at home, at the dinner table?

I think it's a conversation that needs to be had everywhere. It should be. Well, sorry, the one thing that is happening is that it is becoming a conversation in many places that it hasn't before. I talked about prior talked about, you know, in government, in corporations, in sport, also in schools. There's a lot of work being done around that in schools, which I think is great. You know, it really is that mental health is not a weakness, that I can be struggling with anxiety or depression. I can live a good life, I can build resilience. I can have a mental health toolkit that I go to and I know what to do. But if things get too tough, I also know where to go to for support. And again, it all starts the whole conversation for me. And the whole narrative starts with self care. And if we all acknowledge that we need to take care of our mental health and if we all acknowledge that it starts with us. And the other thing that I'm about to big believer in is that we need to take personal responsibility. We cannot outsource it. All of those things that I've talked to you about today, we can't outsource. The only thing we outsource is we can go to the new Access to small business program and ask a coach to help us. But we still take personal responsibility because we are going to go through that program and we're going to do the best. So we have personal responsibility and it should be openly talked about without fear. And fear can be, what if they react negatively? What if they think that I think that they're mad. When you go into something with empathy and genuineness, people, most cases react positively to that genuine care and concern.

You're a speaker and ambassador for beyondblue. Why does this cause mean so much to you? And it sounds like you're living your purpose right now, but if so, how did you go about discovering that purpose as well?

I am definitely living my purpose. And as I say to a lot of people, if you can find the circle in which you wish to stand that brings you purpose and joy, then you're very lucky. I've found that. And my circle is talking about mental health and Beyond Blue. I'm incredibly grateful for that. It has helped me immensely. And I love to talk about the fact that volunteering is another great thing for our mental health. But I suppose it means so much to me for a couple of reasons. One is that when I had my small business back in about 2000, it's a long time ago now, 2005 or 6 or 7, around then I struggled with anxiety and I didn't know what was going on and I had no idea. If you think back to that period, there wasn't as much discussion in the media or I talked about it before I went, suck it up, Tim. You're a bloke. You know, just ignore that. I don't have a mental health condition. I'm not, you know, keep that away from me. You know, I look back now and I think, wow, that's very naive. But I learned from it and I now live incredibly great life. There's no stigma around it for me anymore. There was. So when I sold my business, I started doing some other things around the consulting and helping other small business. And then I really started to look for what I wanted else to do in my life. Beyond Blue is a great organization. I've done a little bit of work for them. How about I step into their speaker network? And so I had to apply and go through a whole process. And again, it's been one of the great joys in my life. But I can now share stories of hope. I can share, I can talk on sessions like this and share with people the great things that you can do to take care of yourself.

What are some of the trends you're currently seeing in the mental health space? And perhaps some trends around the building industry as well.

I believe beyondblue reported over the last two years that they have a call center that's manned 24 7. So you can call beyondblue manned by clinical staff. That upwards of a 60% increase in calls to that during the pandemic at the height of it. So that's just one statistic. We've seen that for small business owners. There's been over 25% reported high level of physical distress. And if you're a sole trader, that can sometimes rise to 36%. We all understand as small business owners that there's stress and there's a lot of challenges. Those sort of statistics are incredibly high. The construction industry, they've experienced around 21 to 25% of construction workers have had a mental health condition. That's really high. And unfortunately, and I won't step into this too hard because sometimes it's quite challenging for people, but suicide risk is incredibly high in the building industry. And that's. That's so sad to hear. And it's, you know, two times more likely for people to die by suicide than in the community. That's really sad. That tough. And knowing those statistics and then being able to come and talk on a program like this or, you know, I've talked in other situations with the construction industry. Again, that's something that one small thing that I can do, that why go away from a talk thinking if one or two people do one or two things that I've said and it changes their situation or their life, that that's a great result for me for that outcome. If there's more, then that's a massive bonus. But the more we talk about it and the more we share, I get to share these stories. The more that we understand these statistics and the more that we are open in talking about them and not hiding away from them, the better it is for everybody. In particular those small business owners.

Does our generation have it harder than previous generations? The tricky question, but, I mean, I think we've all lived around the era of storytelling, and how does that storytelling change our perspective? But looking back at previous generations, what's your thoughts about where we are in the world?

If I talked to my mother, she would say going through the Depression and World wars was really challenging. I talked to my grandparents. They had other challenges. You know, if I talk to people my own age, some of them think that, you know, we've probably skated through pretty well. But if I talk to some younger people, they are finding the burden of responsibility put on them by governments and associations, all sorts of things Quite, quite challenging. And I suppose in this world we live out of 24,7 connectivity. That can be quite a burden. I'm not really sure that any generation has it better or worse than another. I think we all have what's delivered to us in the life, you know, in the situation that we are. Some people might say, well, no one's had it as bad as it's been over the last two years. But again, talk to people who have been through the Depression or some of the other challenges. So I suppose I'm like, I'm always just grateful for the life that I've got here. And even when the challenges come, I never try and think well, they had it better, I had it worse. Or I had it better and they had it worse. I don't really think about that. But I do agree with you that storytelling is a great medium and a great way to change someone's perspective. And I hope what I've been able to do through this is share a few of those stories and give a little bit of an insight and be a little bit vulnerable and share a little bit of information and tell a little story along the way that people can go. You know, that might resonate with me. And sometimes with those, storytelling is. It's not what we take immediately, it's what we take in the coming days or weeks.

You know, I could talk to you for hours, Tim, over a bunch of different topics. It's an absolute pleasure having you on our podcast today. But I want to ask my final question and thank you for inspiring accountability through this conversation. But what is a personal thing that you do when you feel you're steering away from maintaining a healthy state of mind? And is there anything that brings you back to that happier and better place?

That's a really great final question because I find no matter how much I know about mental health, no matter how good I am with my mental toolkit, at times I don't put myself first. And that steers me along a different path. But here's the thing. It's taken me a while, but I now understand that I need to get back on track relatively quickly. And I can understand those triggers that I talked about. And I can understand when I'm not doing the things that take care of my mental health, the best thing that I do is I jump in the ocean and swim. And that resets me. Also, when I talk about it, I say that whatever that is in terms of exercise or time for you or something that you're really happy with is what it is. You don't have to jump in the water. My husband still thinks I'm mad. It's too cold. But it resets me and it puts me back on path. And today I wanted to be in a great frame of mind for this conversation, and I made sure that I was down at sunrise swimming in the ocean and doing a bit of gratitude because I knew that would set me up and I knew that it resets me, and it puts me in the best frame of mind to deal with whatever challenge comes to me during that day. So that's how I kind of reset myself. But I want to thank you very much for this conversation. I think we could talk for ages. And I want to thank you for the opportunity to talk about mental health, the opportunity to focus in particular around the construction industry that have had and will continue to have many challenges. So it's a real credit. So I always love stepping into these discussions. So thank you.

And for our listeners out there, it's just another reminder about the fact that you don't have to struggle in silence. That's a really, really big takeaway for me today and also just the importance of accountability. Tim, thanks again once again for your energy, for your mindset, for your generosity with your thought process and also coming in with that relaxed mind frame and mindset today as well. So appreciate you being here with us today as well.

Thanks very much.

Cheers. Thank you for listening. Remember to subscribe to Professional Builder's Secrets on your favorite podcast platform and leave a review. To learn more about how the systems at the association of Professional Builders can help you grow your building company, visit associationofprofessionalbuilders. Com. See you next time.