43. Creating A Successful Brand With Russ, Sky & Andy

People buy on emotion and then they justify with logic.

Efficiency always translates into bottom line profit.

We can't be afraid to evolve. We can really only earn what we truly believe we could earn.

It can be very lonely place in business and especially in a building company.

If it's done to impress somebody else. But it's not true, it's not sustainable.

The number one reason why 95 of builders make little or no net profit? It's pretty much branding.

This is Professional Builder Secrets, the number one podcast to help you grow your building company safely and securely. Brought to you by the association of Professional Builders. Join us every week as we talk to industry experts and your fellow professional builders on everything you need to know to generate more leads, more sales and higher margins while improving the building experience for your clients. Hello and welcome to the Professional Builder Secrets podcast, a podcast by the association of Professional Builders for building company owners, general managers, VPs and emerging leaders. Here we discuss all things running a professional building company from sales, processes, financials, operations and marketing. I'm joined today by co founders sky and Russ Stevens, as well as head coach Andy Scarda for the association of Professional Builders. Sky, thanks for being here today.

Thanks, Bosco. How are you doing?

I'm doing well, Andy. It's been a while since we last seen you.

Yes, it's been way too long. Good to be here, Bosco.

And Russ, good to see your smiling face as well.

Hey Bosco, great to see you too.

I'm really excited to have you all back on again. I missed these jam sessions and I wanted to start off with what is the difference between creating a residential building brand versus a business?

On the surface, anyone can create a building company. However, what most builders really end up doing is creating a job for themselves. And the reason being they then end up competing on price and they don't achieve the margins that they need in order to generate net retained profit, which is when the shareholders start making money rather than just the Director. The number one reason why 95% of of builders or building companies make little or no net profit. The difference between them and the guys that you see making 10% profit is pretty much branding. You'll see the company making good net profit has got a brand something of value, whereas the guys that don't end up competing on price and the brand really is not just about having a great logo, although that's something you definitely want to try and get right. It's about applying your logo to all of the great things that you do for your marketplace, which then influences how your Audience perceives you. So, you know, we're talking about case studies, the type of work you do and the people you do it for, the messaging. Because all of this, it evokes emotion. You know, think of Apple and people buy on emotion and then they justify with logic. So with a great brand, you're already halfway there.

It's really interesting because you had me at profits and you had me at emotion. So let's get into this a little bit. Why is having a brand mentality and focus so important? Let's dig a little deeper into how does that impact the numbers.

I think Russ explained it really well. And to add to that, it's also. It's your brand, is your reputation. The better brand we can create, we have a much better reputation in the marketplace, a much better reputation with team members and staff. So people want to work at that company with a great brand, a great reputation. And then you get that following. Just, you know, like Russ just said, like Apple, you know, people become passionate about your brand. I think as well, having a brand mentality that you just mentioned, Bosco, why is that focus so important? It takes it away from any one individual. It's really interesting. Paul Vespier actually was on our podcast and he did an episode a while back and he mentions it in his episode. He talks about the building company he's creating is a brand. It's not a personal brand. Like so many people are going down that path to create. It's not about him or any one person. No, it's the entire building company. So that people, everyone on his team are a part of it. Clients are all a part of it when they build with him in this brand. So it's much bigger than any one person.

That's amazing because it increases recognition, doesn't it? I mean, that's what a brand does. It sets you apart. And of course, the real it generates referrals at the end of the day.

And it makes it much easier to exit. I think when you look at any personal brand, anyone that's operating, it's really common. This is the only reason I'm raising it. It's very common in coaching. A lot of people getting into coaching are very much personal brands. They are the coach and they're the one delivering all of the services. They're very much a personal brand selling themselves. And you burn out much quicker because everything is dependent on you. Whereas if you can build a company and you're company as a brand rather than just you, you can really scale that entire company and really achieve what you're looking to achieve. But it makes the exit and your whole exit strategy so much easier and so much more attainable because it's the whole purpose of what you're building.

Yeah, I think you touched on something really good there. Building the brand. It gives you freedom, doesn't it? Helps you get your time back. Because you say when, when the business is all about you. Yeah. There's no respite.

I think someone once said when you're telling people about your business or your brand, it's advertising. But when other people are complimenting and can't say enough about who's built their home, then that's really what branding does. Right. So it's interesting you say that, because even myself going through landscaping, I was so happy with it that I think I told so many other people about it. But let's get into the business of things. When we talk about a residential brand, we talked about reputation, we talked about exits as well. How does this impact the business from a metrics perspective? Where do you see the results in the business financials?

Well, I think I'll jump in on this one and I'm tempted to say what they said, but the truth is, if you look at where that goes, the word that always comes to mind with me when you talk about brand is consistency. If what you've got is, you've got this, let's call it the central focus. It's not personal, number one. It's an entity on its own. So it has its own character, if you like, it projects itself in a particular way. What that does is it brings consistency across that entire business. And if you can be delivering the same level of service in the same way to every client, et cetera, et cetera, that translates into efficiency. And efficiency always translates into bottom line profit.

I think increased margins as well. What's the bottom line impact? Like Andy was saying, yeah, more increased profit. But you have the ability to add a higher markup and you have that line out the door. And this is literally how you can manufacture more demand than your supply. This is what all the best brands do. You're just replicating what happens.

I think another way it impacts business as well is that it motivates the staff and helps set direction for the business as well. When you have a brand, and that's, that's so, so important, getting everyone on the same page and all pulling in the, in the same direction, it's really.

We kind of all tiptoeing around the same thing. There's that statement, perception creates reality. Or perception builds reality. As soon as you've got an identifiable brand that gives everything you do a lot more credibility in the marketplace and that's going to impact obviously your marketing, your sales and then all the way through the balance of the business as well.

Do you find that the conversions for a referral from someone who's very happy with the brand or as an ambassador would be a lot higher than any other part of the sales process?

Typically way higher. Yeah, way.

Absolutely.

And it's interesting point because we've also studied this in detail and seen that you get bigger margins as well by as much as 5% from a referral because they are so warm and so easy to progress.

So it's even qualified traffic as well.

Well, as, as you said, I mean you mentioned earlier with your landscaping experience. Yeah, particularly it was. Because it was a good one. You've literally taken that message and you've become a disciple. Everybody you know that mentions landscaping, you now promoting somebody else's business. Yeah. That's the beauty of a brand.

It's a double win for the builder, isn't it? Because they increase margins and lower advertising costs.

So there's a lot of sliding scale impacts from what you guys are all.

Absolutely.

What are some of the key areas to consider when building a brand? Russ, you talked a lot about brand messaging and you talked a little bit about identity. These are things that builders on a normal. I would assume would find it very overwhelming to think about. But what are some of those key areas to consider?

Yeah, I think some, some key things to really focus on is the brand position, which is the niche first and foremost. So I mean this all comes back down to, you know, the process of marketing 101 and getting that set up. Yeah. Which is a very large part of your brand. But getting clear on that niche, getting clear on the promise that you're making, you know that your brand is making, which is your usp because that is what sets you apart. The rest of the market. There's the personality of the brand is another thing because that's the voice with which you speak with. It can be a light hearted, it can be a little more technical, but that's the personality, the voice with which the brand speaks and it demonstrates your values. Also, I think brand story is a big one because your journey as a builder is important to your prospects. They love to hear how you got to where you are and a very, very important component not to forget. And of course another thing is the brand associations. So everything you associate your brand with in terms of other companies. That's where authority and trust comes from as well. For instance, having the borrowed authority, we call it. Yeah. You might have the logo of another association, an association on your signature. Certain suppliers who you associate with is really, really important.

On average, how long would that normally take? Because most business owners, when they're starting out or getting into it, they want to rush and they want to go to the market right away. What you're talking about is actually slow down before you get to that market, because it does. From what you're sounding like, there's a lot of work that goes into this process as well.

Yeah. And that's really important because I think a lot of guys might be listening to this and maybe getting a bit overwhelmed thinking about all the different things they got to do. But it's like everything with running a building company, there is a lot to do. You can only do one thing at a time. You've just got to identify what that number one thing is and then allocate time in your calendar to be working on your business. And when you do that, I think you'll look back after three months and you'd be surprised how far you've come. But in terms of working on your brand, we're talking years to develop our own brand, and it's still ongoing work. So it is a work in progress. It's not something you can tick off and done.

How do you create that brand for that residential company? When it comes to messaging, what goes into this? Because it sounds like there's the experience level, there's the messaging level. That's that ongoing improvement as well. Where do we start?

I feel like if we take it down to its simplest form, brand, there's so much goes into a brand. So exactly like what Russ and Andy have just said. So you've got your entire messaging and trying to look at who your ideal clients are. Firstly, who do you serve, what do you do, and what do you specialize in? What's the story? And when you talk about what do you do, really, in a lot of detail, what is it? What kind of new homes, what price point? You know, are these over $1 million homes? Are they $10 million homes? Are they thousand dollars homes? And what are we really sticking to? What are we going to be known for? Because just like Russ said, building a brand, it takes a while, it takes investment. It's not instant. Like you can just work out the answers to those questions and then suddenly you have a brand. Because then there's another layer. It's every Your brand is everything that everyone sees. So how are you perceived in every single email and blog article and video? Just like Russ said, What is the tone then? What are all of your colors, fonts, and your logo? And your logo marks so that when you are seen everywhere, it's an instant recognition. Oh, that's apb. I think the biggest misconception to anyone is that branding is a logo. And to even do any kind of branding exercise, it's like putting your logo on the car and on a sight sign and there's just so much more to it so that you can literally build a very valuable brand. The logo and the design is just one part of it. It's a very important part, but it is just one part of it. So how do you create a brand for a building company? Well, it's starting with the basics. It's starting with all of your messaging. What is your niche? What is your specialty? Who is your avatar or your ideal client? What are their fears? What are their pain points? Let's really dig into that and truly understand them. What's their whole profile? How old are they? Do they have a family? Why are they looking to build a new home? Let's truly understand that story and then we can look at our building company and think, okay, well, what's unique about us? What's the unique selling proposition? What are our features and what are the benefits of going with us? What's our building process? So you can see in itself, that takes a really long time. And when you said before, Bosco, like, do you have to, like, set that all up at the beginning? You truly don't. I think that's the beauty of it, because if you were, you'd never get started. You never build anything because you're spending so long working on this. So it has to be done consistently and using the compound effect in the background. Because a lot of the time it's only when you're really established as a building company and you have work, that's when you sit back and go, you know what? We need to work on this brand, we need to invest in it and really start developing some guidelines, some protocols. And really, when you try and develop brand guidelines and protocols and think, this is going to be our funds, this is going to be our logo, they're kind of like highway guardrails. The guardrails on a highway. I'm not sure if that even makes sense, but if you can picture that, it just keeps you on track. You're always moving forward, but it keeps you on track. So you're not going to go too far out, you're going to color within the lines and then you will be a recognizable brand if you follow these principles.

I think the brand guidelines that sky and the team developed for APB is probably one of our most important documents and probably most used because creating the brand is one thing, but protecting what you've created and staying on track is just so, so important. And brand guidelines not only helps you and your team do that, but all the other companies that you bring into your world, you know, marketing agencies, etcetera, they can all access the brand guidelines. So it's such an important document as you continue building your brand.

And they can be massive, but they can be really small as well, because even us introducing the concept of brand guidelines, so we've talked about this to our members and our document is quite long, but they're very detailed because we've spent so long building them. But to be honest, you can launch with just going, here are our primary colors and here's the main font, and then you build from there. Now, our guidelines now include things like imagery and photography. Here's how we depict our clients, this is how we don't. So we always have yes and no versions. Here's our logo. Here's how you can color change it. Here's how you should never color change it. Here is our tonality and here's how we talk. And this is our brand's voice. This is how we do not talk. It's literally, yeah, those highway guardrails. But it doesn't have to start being anything complicated creating a brand and creating those parameters. It just involves starting and then you can build from there.

So let's talk a little bit about the next steps after we've built the identity. So it sounds like you've nailed the guidelines. You've talked a little bit about the looks and the messaging and everything else. What are the necessary steps after that look and that guideline is built? How does that reflect into the hiring process and the experiences? Do you have a blueprint where if a builder comes to you and says, I need help, I don't know where to start? Where do they go?

Well, I think Sky's covered. A lot of the fundamentals lie in your development of your marketing and your messaging and everything that's around that. And I think the reality with this is it's a process that evolves over time. It's not something that you're going to literally get everything done immediately. If I think back even to the APB and I got to share the story of the history. Anybody that's read the book that Russ and Sky have written will know that we didn't start out as the apb. We are the combination of a number of different experiences that have happened along the way, and the business has kind of evolved from all of those experiences. So I think that the fundamental thing which we've touched on already is don't rush it. You're going to need some fundamental things in terms of imagery and colors to actually register the business and start trading. But it's important that you don't necessarily bind yourself to what you start with because it could quite easily evolve over a period as you develop. And here's what we spoke about earlier. As you develop your reputation in your niche with your particular ideal client, that's obviously going to start to build in these other things that sky and Russ are talking about.

Let's touch on that for a second. Because when we start working with builders and talking about putting in place a brand, and first up is messaging and picking your ideal client and your specialty. What's the one thing, Andy, everyone gets one very nervous about if they haven't done it already when you're telling them, okay, you need to niche, you need to specialize in a certain type of building. What is the biggest fear they have?

Well, that they're going to lose out on stuff. They try to be all things to all people and end up satisfying nobody at the end of the day.

Exactly. And it's just, it's crazy because the opposite is true. If you let go of, instead of doing, you know, new homes and renovations and extensions and basically like, you know, you're a professional builder, of course you can build anything. But if you go all in on one and you really just carve out and completely display and showcase and show these ideal clients that this is exactly what you specialize in. Your margins go up, you know, and this all comes back to building that brand. You are the specialist and everything you do and even affiliate with and align with showcases that as well. I loved what Russ said just before. It's our brand. You're getting judged literally not just on how you look and what you say, but it's who you're affiliated with. So every person and business that you are affiliated with reflects on your brand. So you want to make sure you're aligned with the best people as well. And that are specialists and high end, if you're high end or family homes, if you're family homes or whatever.

And I think is your, your brand is the average of the five companies you associate with.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. And I think the other thing that's, that's important, we don't. Russ touched on this earlier. Apple, they don't sell fruit. What they did was the reality of the Apple brand is the experience that every consumer or customer has with Apple. That's what turns us into raving fans and disciples. At the end of the day, the logo is quite cute and quirky even. It has changed. If you go back and look at some of the early iterations of that Apple logo, it didn't start out the way it is today. It's almost like the one hand is washing the other as the experiences grow, as the reputation grows. So you get this evolution and this morphing coming.

I do love that. We can't be afraid to evolve.

Yeah.

Because a lot of building companies, when you start, it was a formality, let's get a logo. Some people really overthink their logo and they spend tens of thousands and too much thought. If you're just starting a company, like get the company to work, then we can figure it out. But don't be afraid to really sit back now and look at your own building company and think, okay, what do we actually look like? Because I remember having this conversation with some owners of a building company and I had permission to be very objective about their logo because they were really looking at, you know, building their brand and it was okay. If you really want some objective commentary on what it looks like, your logo has a hammer in it. And if we're trying to appeal to some high end clients, because we're building these kinds of homes, we kind of look like a carpentry company. So it would appeal to a builder because they're looking at a logo. So we may need to rethink some of these logo marks because that icon in your logo is usually what gets used as, you know, your favicon on your website or little icons on your social or anything like that. So don't be afraid to look super objectively at what your brand looks like right now and you can refine it over time. We've even done this, our colors, we've had brand guidelines and even now we're thinking, okay, we need to like turn up the saturation. We're trying to deepen some of the shades we're going over here and that's fine. Because brands can and should evolve. Just like Apple.

We often say, don't we? What got you here is not going to get you to the next level. And that means looking at everything, not just your processes, but yeah, not being afraid to relook at what you've done in the past with a fresh set of eyes and a fresh vision leads.

Me to my next curiosity here as well. You talked a little bit about people niching and not being afraid to let go and actually hang on to something here. Is there a commonality where builders struggle when it comes to brand building? Do you notice a few areas that are common or is it sort of different based on every builder that you've worked with in the past?

Yeah, I think there's a few things that kind of affect most builders and one of those is short term thinking rather than long term thinking in terms of creating their assets. Because it's not just about the, the quick wins, but it's also about those things that can have a lasting compound effect which probably can be a little bit more gritty. So yeah, it can kind of get exciting to produce a logo and choose your colors and even the, the USP for the, for the company. But some of the other stuff takes a bit more work and you're not going to see a benefit from it straight away. Things like case studies and creating a client booklet and a company brochure and your lead magnets, which are your how to guides which gets people, people to opt in. These, these things can take a lot of work and you're not going to see an ROI from them, but over time or you're not going to see an ROI in the short term, but over time these are very, very valuable assets. So yeah, long term thinking is important, but also to plan your vision and get it written down and, and shared. Just be very clear in your vision about what you stand for, what you want to be known for and then work towards it and the way to work towards it. Yeah, probably the most important parts of that is sharing with your team. Make sure that you bring your team with you, that they're clear on where this company is going and what it stands for. But not just your team, you've got to share it with your, with your audience, your public via your marketing and even your, your suppliers. Because again, these are the companies you're associating with. Very important that they understand what your brand stands for because they're representing it on site as well.

I love that. And to add to that as well, I think another struggle is design. And I don't mean that we're building beautiful homes or these building companies can build beautiful homes, but brand design is just, it's a Totally different beast. When we really, like, went all in and decided to get into it, it's just a minefield. And so we have to be prepared to know that we're not going to make the best decisions. I remember when we first started working on our brand and we were working with a brand specialist. It was great because it was engaging a professional. And so, yes, you need. You truly do in building design, everything. You get what you pay for. So find a specialist and a professional. And it quite literally is their job to fight the battles that are the most important. Because I remember going and having these conversations, and we had primary colors and secondary colors, and in the secondary colors, it was like, nope, don't like. No, no, no. Do not like that color orange. That's. No. Our designer knew that that was a battle to fight. You do not use this color orange everywhere. It is used in these examples. And they gave, like, 10 different examples of how it's supposed to get used. And it was like, okay, point taken. Yes. You know, like, you're clearly the specialist there. So I think the struggle in brand building is not being able to often ask for help and find specialists to involve and loop in so that we can develop. And probably just also the investment side, because the investment. There is an investment in building a brand, and it's not just, you know, for one designer to build some brand guidelines around your logo and fonts and all your colors that you use. Honestly, that really is just one part of it. The investment in your brand is exactly what Russ said. It's getting professional case studies. It's all of those photos and videos of your projects of the perfect, ideal projects that you're trying to promote. All of this is content building and then brand building, because they're all under this perfect banner of how they're supposed to look. And it takes A, a lot of time, and B, it takes cash. Like, it is an ongoing investment. And unfortunately, or fortunately, you're never done. Because like Andy said, you got to constantly be evolving.

If I can just back up. One thing that sky hasn't touched on that she's very good at is having made those decisions, you've got to passionately defend them. I can remember in my early days with the APB putting together a slide deck and getting back a very, very short and to the point email that said, this is not how we do things at the apb.

Sorry, Andy.

No, absolutely, no. No, not at all. But the point was, because of the work and the effort, the blood, sweat, and tears that had gone into creating what we had, she wasn't prepared to just throw it out the window because some new upstart decided he was going to do things differently. That's part of, think of what we were saying earlier about not rushing into this process, getting to a place where you are confident in the brand that you are building and that you truly believe in it. It's a reflection of your values. It's a reflection of the way you do things throughout your business. And then you need to defend that passionately.

It adds to such a positive because think of your client journey, right? So you have a prospect that sees you on social media. They then follow you for a while. Maybe they go ahead and download something after reading a blog article on your website. They then download something, everything from the social to the website to the article to the email that they got to the lead magnet, like how to guide that they got was so consistent. And then the salesperson that got in touch with them was so consistent and passionate about the brand that they've built and who they serve and what it is that they do. And then the meeting that was in the office, the brochure, they got to walk away with the presentation that got them into concept designs, how they were presented, how the presentation for prelims was presented, how the fixed price contract proposal was created. If that was all so consistent, that's an amazing brand experience. And that is what we're about at apb. We are trying to improve the client experience, well, the whole experience for builders and of course consumers. And so having as many professional building companies as possible roll out a brand experience like that, that's game changing. That's so professional.

Speaking of values and speaking of brand consistency, I do remember having a guest, a builder on our podcast who actually had his values on the wall while he was being interviewed by me. And I remember at the end of the interview I asked him, I said, what is that on the wall? And he said, oh, this is inspired for my coaching. And we actually live and breathe our values. And I remember seeing it on the wall through the entire interview and I was curious about them and it was my last question after the interview as well. So you are right. And it's interesting how people live and breathe values and that's what they put into their brand as well. You're probably going to know what I'm going to ask next and that is, can you tell me off an APB member who inspires a strong residential brand. How did they transform their business into a powerful brand?

The problem, Bosco, always with These questions is they're too limiting because no, I can't tell you about one. I could probably tell you about 20 and that would probably be unfair to the other 25 that I wouldn't think of at, at the time. But let me say this to you, there are a number of our members that over a period of time, exactly the discussion that sky has just taken you through, you can only create the brand that epitomizes what she's just described. When you've done all of that work. She's using words that there may be a lot of people listening to this podcast that they don't even understand exactly what we're talking about when we talk about some of the processes that have just been mentioned. But that's part of building this consistency into the business is actually step by step working through that client journey. All of your messaging, all of your communication, etc. Etc. We have a bunch of people that as we speak, have been trading very successfully under one name and brand. But exactly as Russ said earlier, they've got to the point where they're ready to move to the next level and that kind of messaging is not going to serve them to make that transition. So I'll try and keep it as broad as I can. Their business until now has been named after their family surname. They are now thinking about moving it to something that is more relative to the work that they want to do. And take that back to what sky said earlier. At some point in the near future, they're going to think about exiting their business. If the business is still named after them when they try and leave, the incoming buyer now has a problem. Whereas if it's branded as something that speaks to the client, that client base isn't going to change. If we talk about most businesses go through that, you start off self employed, then you become a business owner because you get some people and then you become an entrepreneur. The brand kind of needs to wait until you're at least at the end of your business owner moving to entrepreneur, where you actually have some runs on the board. I personally would probably be saying to a client, don't invest the big bucks that sky was talking about in the first year. Get something that serves the purpose in the interim while you build those other things. And then when you're comfortable that you've now got a business that actually has value and assets. Now let's see, get together with a brand specialist and now let's bring that all together. And just as an aside, those values that you saw on the wall of that particular person. What he didn't tell you was he makes every employee tattoo them on his chest as well. Just. Just to really ride them up.

And looking at a high level as well. We've seen so many building companies change their process which then becomes part of their brand as well. Yeah. For instance, the building companies that started out just quoting plans and were a commodity. They evolved into design and construct companies, which is where the margin is. And their whole brand evolved as part of that process as well.

And even the people behind the company, just to add on to that as well, think of so many of our members when they have first joined APB compared to where they are now. These owners of building companies are straight up professional. It goes back to so many episodes we've done in the past. But even so much as mindset, even remember that whole idea of self concept. And we can really only earn what we truly believe we could earn. So if we were to raise the stakes and raise our game, we can only earn what we believe we can earn. And these companies have completely transformed into such professional building organizations. That's how they're earning the margins they are now earning because the complete brand transformation, but also the people behind the company, that transformation as well from all this effort and learning that has gone into it. Also, just to add a little bit of a story, it's very hard and I think it's very, very worthwhile to explain this. It is very hard to train your brand because it's so much work and effort involved. But one thing I can promise is that it's worth it because we have done it. We've done it more than once. But when we rebranded and I suppose like created the association of Professional Builders, that was a change in name. And I remember you guys would remember this. When we did that, when we started that we were starting to put out the association of Professional Builders, we redid a lot of materials. And it's so clear the first time we heard our clients repeat it back in a video interview and they started referring to us as the association of Professional Builders. And it's so, it's so worth it. And it takes a couple years for everything to come out in the wash for you to update everything. But it's just one thing at a time. Don't think you need to be working on this for two years in the background. So then you flick a switch and suddenly you've gone from complete renovations company to then this custom design and build new home company overnight. Like all the branding is done. Everything's updated. You can do it in phases and it can take a little bit of time, but I promise it is worth it.

I can remember the kind of the time that sky is talking about where because it was clear, we could virtually go back and look at even content that we'd created that we literally knew that no longer fits what we want to be putting out into the universe. We could literally go and redo major chunks of the business because we'd got that branding as clear. And Sky's analogy of those Armco barriers, those guardrails on the freeway is absolutely fantastic because it literally guides virtually every process within the business. Once you've got it set up correctly.

It makes it easier for you to say goodbye to certain testimonials and case studies if they no longer align with where you're going. It makes it easier to remove certain pieces of content, certain posts on social media, because you're realizing that's not where you're headed anymore. So it makes your decision making a lot easier. But again, not just your decision making, but the entire team because they're all working on this same direction for the same brand.

Let's talk about the team side of things and people in the workforce as well. Andy gave a great example of the past where he was reminded of where the direction is, where the brand is. But why is that brand alignment so important? From leadership to everyone on the front lines, your workforce, why is that so important and how do you inspire that in a team? I'm sure the builders are probably going well, how do I make sure that the people that work for me actually wear my brand and live and breathe it?

Brand alignment is so important because I think exactly that we're not going to spend all this time, energy and effort, it's so easily can just fall under. You know, that's marketing's problem to fix it up. But no, it then becomes everyone's problem to make sure we're all aligned and where we're going. And the biggest fight in any company usually is between the sales and marketing department because sales always say the leads aren't good. And marketing could always say we have all the leads in the world. You know what I mean? Like, you don't want there to be any of that conflict. So we do want that alignment between marketing and sales, that this is who we're targeting, this is our ideal client, this is what we stand for, this is our target, where we're headed so that it's completely uniformed and aligned like what we're saying, even what we're Putting out there in marketing, like the clients that are in our case studies, the their homes that we are photographing and showing online, they're the kinds of homes that we are looking to sell and the sales team are looking to sell. It just makes us all very much on the same page and singing from the same song sheet.

And I think the absence of this as well, people would naturally go in their own direction and do their own thing. So all of a sudden you don't have a brand at all. You have a lot of mixed messaging out there and different standards because everyone has their own opinion on marketing.

Yes. And slide decks.

I won't let this down.

I don't think you're going to listen.

You're over it now, though, Andy?

I'm over it. I've had counseling. I'm fine now.

I'm fine.

Tell us how you really feel. Maybe that's another episode, but. All right. How do you take brand messaging to the market? The association of Professional Builders has had every year has been even bigger and stronger than the year before. The media, the attention on tv, the national coverage. How do you ensure that you're taking the right steps to take a brand into the market?

Well, it is every interaction that you've got to be aware of. So first and foremost, your website has got to be on point because that's one of the most interactive components that you're putting out there. But it's your blog site as well, which is containing all the articles that's got to be consistent, the videos that you're producing as well and putting out into the marketplace. Getting on podcasts as well has been quite powerful for a lot of builders where we're seeing and that helps them to get their message out to the market again, you know, through a third party channel. It's their signage, even their sites. You know, if you think about a builder's sites, how that can damage a brand. Looking at a messy site with messy workers on site. This is all part of what you stand for and the rules that you're putting in place. And then of course, the advertising that you're putting out there. And if you're working with a marketing agency, it's very important. You've got the brand guidelines for them to follow to make sure the advertising is consistent when you go out to market.

Yeah, it helps. You have higher standards. You really set it in stone. Because I know certainly we end up saying this internally all the time. It's no, no, no, we're apb. We can do better than that. How Are we going to look how well groomed are we going to be at any event? You know? No, no, we're APB and I know that that just comes out internally and that's. It just becomes part of the culture. And imagine building that for your own building company because you can, any of your team members can go onto any site and be like, no, no, no, we're APB luxury homes. We can do better than that. And then everyone just holds that higher standard. It's amazing.

Yeah. I think a good example of that is the live events that we do. And because we aspire to such a high standard and we want to help our members achieve such a high standard as well. Whenever we do a live event we always go to the best hotel in the city because that is part of our brand. We're right on the high end. So yeah, it's being consistent right across everything that you do.

I've actually had the good fortune of attending these events and I really resonated with the attention to the detail. Everything from the little booklets to that experience that, that they had networking with other builders to the fact that they all wanted to connect after the event as well. So I have to commend you all for the attention to detail and it was details across the entire experience from start to finish.

And it's great the way builders respond when they come to these events as well. They dress up. It is a special occasion, it's a special night out. We don't have the guys turning up in short and fluoros. It's. Yeah, nothing wrong with those events but that doesn't fit with our brands. That's not what we're looking to achieve in the marketplace.

And it sounds like the events are going to be a signature thing for, for the association of Professional Builders long term by the sounds of what you're saying. It sounds like the builders are wanting more and more of this as well.

Yeah, the builders love the, the network in. Because it can be very lonely place in business, business and especially in a building company with all the pressures so to come out in a nice environment and relax with a couple of drinks and talk to other like minded people. And I think that's the key. It's not just about talking to other builders, it's talking to like minded builders. Builders that also aspire to improve the building experience for their own clients. You know, this is what members of the APB are all trying to achieve is to deliver that better experience and of course to get well rewarded for the service that they're providing.

Let's talk a little bit about accountability, especially with keeping the brand. We talked a little bit about having that uniformity and alignment as well. But is there tool or is there a way of internally communicating with everyone to make sure that everyone's accountable?

Well, I think a really good step to actually achieve that is to have some form of structure in, in a way of brand guidelines. And just like we talked about, it doesn't actually need to be anything complicated. Honestly, you don't even need to design a very fancy PDF for it. Have it somewhere that you're going to look at it all the time. Where is a document that you can at least have all of your assets so high resolution copy of your logo. What are your brand's three primary colors? And honestly, they're just going to be probably the one or two colors you already have in your log and black as a primary color. You can go into secondary colors but if you're not there, just don't worry about it. What's your primary font and get really clear on those things. That's just one part of it though. That's the design section. Map out in its simplest form what it is you specialize in. Your ideal project. Literally, do you build, you design and build custom new homes between 800,000 to just under a million. That's like your sweet spot. Of those custom homes you build and you do, you know, maybe 20 of them a year, maybe six, maybe whatever. Get really clear on what and who your building company actually is and how you look and then get it written down. Because as soon as it's written down, it's a little bit more set in stone, a little bit more formal and just share it and communicate it it to your existing team and just make a really big point to always reference it in anything that you do, any marketing activity, anything at all. And then just make a point to invest in it and build on it. Don't go all out and spend all this money putting together such a massive deal. Right now. Just get started in its simplest form, refer to it, loop in your team, make sure they're very aware of it and call them out if they do not make something correct as per the brand guidelines. And that is how you can set up those highway guardrails, just to keep people moving forward. But you've got your initial parameters. That's, I think the easiest place to start.

I could talk to you guys about different topics for a very long time, but for the sake of time in this episode, my last question is how does the association of Professional Builders empower residential builders to design remarkable brands? And what are some of the resources that you provide to help them along the way?

Well, I think I'm going to be my usual obtuse self and tell you that we don't, but that's not 100% true. If you think about everything we've discussed, really, it's broken into two pieces. There is a design element that a lot of builders may not necessarily be comfortable in that space. And I think that's why sky said, when you are ready, when you've got it clear and you know, this is who we are, then get a professional involved. But we obviously, within our library of training videos, sky has broken the process down into bite sized chunks and we literally walk members through everything that we've mentioned today, website design and brochures and all of those kind of things, company manuals, handbooks that are given to clients, et cetera, et cetera. All of these things are explained in a lot of detail. But I think really, what, what if we're going to talk about empowering people, the two things that stand out to me are this one at the apb, everything we do is authentic. So it's not a made up, let's pretend to be X. It's actual values that are lived and breathing in the business on a day by day basis. It is the way we do things and that's what we're reflecting. So that that reality and that authenticity, I think is a major part of this exercise if it's done to impress somebody else, but it's not true, it's not sustainable. And what you'll find very quickly is the dissonance that that is going to cause is actually going to work against you rather than for you. So it's really the empowerment comes from us teaching builders to be consistently professional. And when they have become consistently professional, it's then a lot simpler to do the design side of representing that to the marketplace.

As someone once said, brand is the most important investment you can ever make. So it sounds like this is a continuous practice that you're inspiring your builders to put through. Once again, I really appreciate your insights and your time today a lot that we've unpackaged. I'm sure we'll have more episodes around this in the future as well. Sky, I want to thank you for your time. Andy and Russ as well, I want to thank you for your time as well.

Thank you, Bosco.

Thanks, Bosco.

Cheers guys.

Thank you for listening.

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