47. The Discovery Process With Russ Sky & Andy

Discovery is what transforms your building company. We want our builders to have a race to the top, not a race to the bottom.

Well, that budget's meaningless without a discovery process. A military plan doesn't survive the first shots being fired.

In order to manage our clients expectations, we first need to understand what they are.

Builders often don't have enough leads, therefore they're desperate. And because they're desperate, they try and cut cor us.

This is Professional Builder Secrets, the number one podcast to help you grow your building company safely and securely. Brought to you by the association of Professional Builders. Join us every week as we talk to industry experts and your fellow professional builders on everything you need to know to generate more leads, more sales and higher margins while improving the building experience for your clients. Hello and welcome to the Professional Builder Secrets podcast, a podcast by the association of Professional Builders for building company owners, general managers, VPs and emerging leaders. Here we discuss all things running a professional building company from sales, processes, financials, operations and marketing. I am joined today by co founders sky and Russ Stevens, as well as head coach Andy Scarter for the association of Professional Builders. Sky, lovely to have you on here again.

Thank you, Bosco. These are so exciting. So happy to be here.

Russ, always a pleasure to have you join us as well.

Thanks, Bosco. Really looking forward to this one today.

Yeah. And Andy, thanks for taking the time from your busy schedule to join us.

It's always a pleasure to see you, Bosco. Happy to be here.

Well, you know, I'm a bit of a sales nerd, so the fact that we're talking about the discovery process today really excites me. And I'm going to start off with a really, really important question, which is what is the discovery process and how does it fit into the entire sales procedure?

Well, it's part of the process of qualifying new leads. However, that process is made up of two parts. There's the qualifying and then there's the discovery. So qualifying is the first step and that's where you can quickly identify if there's even an opportunity just by asking some closed questions. And it takes about five or 10 minutes. And it eliminates people that will never build or are simply using you as a price check. However, the second part of that process, which is the discovery, that takes a lot longer because this is where you go deep and you ask open ended questions that are going to reveal the emotional drivers behind the or a decision to build. And the reason that's important is because as humans, we make decisions based on emotion, but we then justify Those decisions with logic.

So how can the discovery side of the questioning really impact the business and a sales process for a building company?

Well, it's massive because just like Russ said, you've got qualifying and that's do they qualify to do business with us? We did a whole episode on qualifying and all those different questions. Discovery is what transforms your building company because exactly like Russ just said, it's the emotional answers. It's the reasons someone is choosing to design and build their very own custom home and why it matters personally to them. These are very open. They're not a checkbox kind of answer. And you can hear all kinds of things. And the answers essentially give builders and building company owners the ability to sell based on value over price. Because if they do discovery well, they're going to hear what truly matters to these prospects in front of them. Maybe it's communication, maybe it's the quality of finish. It could literally could be anything. Maybe it's the timeline because, you know, someone's coming over or a new baby is coming or whatever. You're going to get the real emotional driver and real value there, and you'll be able to sell on your value overpriced because you can essentially craft the perfect offer to match this person in front of you.

It creates stronger connections as well, doesn't it, the discovery? Because you're going deep, you're asking those questions questions. And when you create stronger connections, then that improves the conversion rates, which obviously is very important for the whole sales process.

It transforms an entire sales process, doesn't it? This could not be better timing because Russ and I were actually on a call this morning together. We were on a call, essentially a sales call with another company. And I can't tell you how awful it was. Not only was there no qualifying, but there was such a lack of discovery that they went straight into telling us all about their company, how good they are. There's so much value that they can deliver without knowing anything about us. And why would we care at that point? You don't know anything about us. You don't know how you can actually help solve our problems because we had a very specific goal. And so without a. A lack of qualifying, I think they're qualifying was sort of like just a couple of questions rather than a very set criteria. Yeah.

Are you breathing?

Yes. Jupa Pulse. But with such a lack of discovery, they had no idea, like the depth that we could have told them, you know, that we were so ready to talk about and to do a proper discovery. Lets the other person know that you truly care and they feel heard, you know, they feel seen because you have such a genuine interest in everything about this project. And it literally happened this morning. It was just such a good reminder of this is too important.

Scott, you talked very quickly about selling on value over price. Why is that important in today's market?

Well, at apb, what we've always said is we want our builders to have a race to the top, not a race to the bottom. So we are not here to service any of the cowboys in the industry that are just here to undercut each other on price. That's not what it's about at all. And so in order to have a race to the top, that means no one competes on price. The price is the price. What we're trying to compete on is value. So what that value means to any prospect, it's going to be different to each one. You can have your ideal clients, maybe they're all in the same similarities of what they're looking for, but one person is going to seriously value communication because of this experience they had. And so we can sell on value by actually overcoming all of those fears and pain points by addressing them with guarantees and unique value propositions and different features and benefits. That's it just has to happen in this industry. Otherwise you just get into that price wall with every other builder in your area.

Are they. Are the discovery questions that we are inspiring our builders to use open ended and what are they designed to do for a builder?

Oscar, I think I'll jump in on this one. I cannot remember a single client that I've ever worked with that's told me they enjoy sales. It's kind of the one thing that virtually every builder comes and tells us. I hate selling. And I think that's partly because selling as a process has a bit of a grimy reputation. You know, you kind of the secondhand salesman, secondhand car salesman, that kind of thing connotation that comes with it. What discovery does is it stops the selling of what we have and it moves the conversation to what need does the client have that I can fulfill? And that's critical to a builder because we've got to understand we're not selling a commodity. It's not a cap or a T shirt or a pencil. This is a in some cases 12 to 18 month relationship during which time we are going to spend the most money that this person has ever spent on a single thing ever in their lives. And that puts it into a completely different place. So any builder that doesn't want to be selling, but wants to be helping clients solve their problem. And that's the thing, it turns the conversation around. It's the opportunity for us to use what we've been physiologically given. Two ears, one mouth. In this part of the process. We should be listening literally. The questions you asked, are they open ended? Yes, they are. Why? Because we want the client to talk, we want the client to unpack those emotional reasons and done properly, what discovery will do is the client will tell you exactly how they want to be sold. We've literally seen this come to pass where statements that have come out from a client's mouth in the discovery process, we've been able to then essentially play back to them and that's been what sold them. It's logical if you think about it. I'm thirsty. I'd like a drink of water. I have a drink. I have a glass of water. Would you like a drink? Boom, Done.

I love what you just said there though, Andy, because they are open ended and I think this is where most of the training ends up coming from. They're open ended. And when we teach discovery questions, we've got, I don't know, maybe seven. I think there are about seven discovery questions and you sort of think, oh, that's quite quick. But think back to our episode on qualifying. It's not, it's not just those seven qualification questions, it's get the specifics. They're sort of like pillars and they're. That's even more relevant when it comes to discovery. There are seven main pillars for your discovery, but my goodness, do you have to go so much deeper? So you're just trying to get the prospect in front of you, feeling so comfortable, to really open up. Tell me more about that. How do you mean? And really, really dig and get as much clarity on everything as possible. Because if they're giving you very short answers, it's very surface level. You are not guessing the emotional responses, which is the whole point of discovery.

Yeah. What we're doing here is really revealing the drivers, isn't it, behind the decision to build. And like you said, Andy, it's revealing the intel, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely intel. And you've got to lock this information because we are going to use this all the way through the sales process. But most importantly, we're going to use it right at the crunch in the contract proposal because this is where we address all those things that came out in discovery.

And I think it's important also that we kind of realize we don't have anything in our sales blueprint that doesn't have a goal. So if you look at it, the purpose of this process or this piece of the sales blueprint is to get to the place where I can propose a concept agreement. And the way we teach that, that's going to be paid for. So what this is really doing is it's taking you to a place where two major things are going to happen. Number one, the B word comes up for the first time in its true context. A lot of builders fall into the trap of going straight into the what's your budget? Well, that budget's meaningless without a discovery process. Because if I tell you my budget is $300,000 and you don't know what I want, what can you do with $300,000? Do I want to build a three story luxury mansion or do I want to build a granny flat? That is critically important in terms of understanding what it is that we're talking about first and then being able to link an available amount of money to that particular process.

It's a good point. You cannot disqualify people on budget during those initial closed qualifying questions, can you? Because like you say, it's completely meaningless. You can only do it at the end of discovery when you've got all that knowledge, you've got a good idea and you've built trust with them. And way too often this happens way too often, doesn't it? It's one of the first questions that get asked within the first five or ten minutes. What's the budget? No, they're dreaming. We can't help them. It's like a missed opportunity.

But how many clients or members have come to us very early in their journey and we've taught this concept and it's a straight up rule. I'm just going to waste my time then. So I have to do all of this qualifying and then do all of this discovery to then find out the budget is unrealistic. I mean, let's talk about that because that happens very frequently when you're new to this process and not quite understanding how discovery works because it's too surface. If you're still getting to that budget question, they qualify on everything else. Something's missing.

Yeah. No, and I think Russ said it earlier, although we name these things two different things, we talk about qualification and discovery. And the reason we do that is because it goes back to Bosco's question. Are discovery questions open ended? Yes, they are. Are qualification questions closed? Yes, they are. So it's really. We could almost Call this qualification part 2 in reality, because what you're doing is making sure that you're not wasting the client's time and your time. If they don't make it through those first seven questions in qualification, they're not even going to get into discovery because they're not the right client. And the quicker you both accept that, the better.

And on the converse of that, they could be completely qualified on paper, they could make it through your qualification questions, but they could all fall over somewhere in discovery when you start digging a lot deeper. And that's okay too, because you should, or we all should be investing that amount of time to properly qualify everybody. It's actually not a waste of time if you do it all in 30 minutes on that same phone call, as opposed to what, weeks, if not months, working with them for them to ghost you because of some other reason?

Yeah, absolutely.

You fuse the two processes together between the qualifying and the discovery. Can you have them all in one go? Is there a way of doing it in an integrated manner too?

We have clients that well again, and it probably depends on what they're doing. For a custom home builder, it's a reasonably simple transition. If you get to the end of the qualification and everything's tick, tick, tick. And yes, we can move ahead. You can pretty seamlessly move straight into discovery. When you talk about remodeling or renovations, get a little more technical because unfortunately, I have the greatest respect for people that work in that space because they are venturing into the unknown every single time they take on a project. There's that standard joke of they talk about planning as a business concept, that a military plan doesn't survive the first shots being fired. Well, the problem with a remodel or renovator is he takes that wall covering off and he has no idea what he's going to find behind there, you know, and it could be anything, including granny, you know, so it's there. We would normally recommend a separation and a physical site inspection as part of the discovery process. So go and have a look at the job. If they qualify, go and have a look at the job and run the discovery in tandem with your site visit.

And I was expecting a box of chocolates analogy from you right now. When it came to remodeling, I can see they're going, life is a box of chocolate. So is remodeling?

Yeah, absolutely.

The discovery and qualifying can also be broken up and we've got a lot of members that do it really successfully when, especially for smaller building companies, if you Know, as the owners, you're doing all of the sales, it's probably the one thing you end up holding on to the longest. You know, as you start delegating a lot of other systems and procedures in the building companies, so you tend to hold on to sales. But as your marketing scales and your inquiries come up, you're going to get a lot more inquiries that you need to qualify. And that's when that headache comes up that, you know, I don't have enough time to go through all this qualification and we start getting sloppy because we want to move faster. And so this is where you can actually separate your qualification and your discovery. And you can, you can literally give qualification to anyone on the team as long as you systemize it.

Great point.

And yeah, they can do the qualification. If they pass those seven questions and those seven checkpoints criteria, then it can move on to you or someone else on the team, someone in sales who can do the discovery. And yes, it's very much like another qualification, just like we've all talked about. But you can separate that procedure among different people, not just different phone calls.

So I'm going to ask the question, can you guys give some examples of some of these effective discovery questions that can aid builders in the sales process? And why are these questions so important?

Well, I think a good one to ask a potential client is what's the most important thing about this project? Because what we're really trying to understand is what compartment the prospect falls into. Because typically there are three things and one of them is going to be a primary and one's going to be a secondary. And those three things are quality, timeline and budget. You know, any prospect you speak to that's looking to build one of those is their primary focus. If they're building their first home, budget is going to be extremely important because they simply don't have the ability to go over that budget. If relatives are coming over from overseas, then, and they need to be in by Christmas, timeline, you know, is their most important thing. And then of course, if they're older in years and they're building their dream home they've built a few times before, it's very much, it's all about the quality. Now if you ask a prospect, you know, what's most important to you out of those three things, they'll tell you all of them. So again, where it comes back to discovery, it's not a closed question. It's a, it's an open question. So, yeah, by saying, what's the most important thing about this project, you're trying to coax out and understand what is their primary and their secondary, because then you can tailor the way that you, you speak to them. Another good one to ask is what concerns you about building? You know, do you have any reservations about the build process? Because what we want to hear about is those horror stories that their friends and relatives have had and things that might concern them going forward. Because we want to make sure we address those in our sales process, either through guarantees or showing how our process actually avoids these things happening to them to reassure them. And if we know what their concerns are and we're the only one addressing those concerns, I mean, how many builders do you think they're going to be talking to by the time it gets to contract stage? You're going to be the only one. Another good one to ask as well is when would you like to be in your new home? Because again, if you ask someone when they'd like to start, they don't know how to long the design process takes and how long construction takes. So you're the expert. It's down to you to work backwards. And most people are blown away. They're very surprised at how long the whole design process takes. And they're not even too aware of how long the pre construction stage takes either. When you've got the design and you need to get the engineering and the selections all documented. So asking that question, getting an idea of what their expectations, expectations are, working it backwards. You're the expert, you're going to guide them. It's all, it's really simple stuff, you know, when you, when you hear it all. But it's about having that conversation to reveal it in a relaxed atmosphere rather than a tick and flick insurance form.

And I think that's the key. It is so simple. So keep it so simple. Like the best sales in the world are the most simple. It's easy to remember, can be easy to forget, but it's easy to remember because they're not these complicated convoluted closes that you need to remember to do this, that and that. Keep it simple. Just like Russ said, they're not, they're not necessarily groundbreaking, but if you do it well, it just works.

And it also sounds from the questions that you've given Russ that some of these questions are also managing your future client expectations as well. You know, it was interesting when you asked about the question of when do you want to move into your home? Because if someone has an unrealistic expectation, you want to manage that expectation before you even Take the project on too. So it sounds like you're also looking at it not only from a client perspective, but you're also looking at it from, is this the right client for us as well?

Yeah, I mean that's a really good point. And in order to manage our clients expectations, we first need to understand what they are. So again, this is why it's so important to do this research and uncover this intel.

It's that whole seek first to understand, then to be understood. Did I take the words out of your mouth, Andy?

Literally, I heard meatloaf playing in the background as you went.

But I think seriously, the discovery just uncovers what you need to teach and share and help with.

Well, we talked a little bit about the B word and we talked a little bit about budgets. I want to get into why are the financials and budgets such a sensitive topic and what is the methodology of approaching this question with care but also at the right time?

Well, it's such a sensitive topic because it's money. People can be a little bit private with money, naturally. But this isn't how much of those pair of shoes or how much is this new laptop going to be. This is serious money. This is often people's biggest, most expensive asset that they're ever going to purchase or pay for in their whole lives. So we're not talking about, you know, just a couple hundred dollars anywhere. It's serious money. And so that B word, the budget question, it can be so taboo to ask it too quickly because there's just a lack of trust. It's sort of like walking up to someone and going how much is in your bank account? Like you just wouldn't do that. So we need to take them on a journey. So if you've come to us and we're talking, you know, you know, we're a customer home design and build company and you've made an inquiry. Let me qualify you. Let me ask you those seven questions. Okay, let's now go into discovery. I need to understand where you're at. Why now? Why are you looking to design and build a new home? What concerns you about the building process, blah, blah, blah, Move them through that process so that by the time we ask a question that has something to do with, by the way, how much money do you have? There's a lot more reason and justification for asking this question. And we can be really tactful about how we ask for it as well. Like we don't want to be, what's the word, gauche about saying how much money do you have how much is this? It's more so, okay, so how much were you planning to invest in this new home? Around 700,000. Maybe between 7 and 900,000 or over 900,000. Especially if people are colder in front of you. If we let them self identify into a category or put themselves into one of three, they can be a little bit more open. You're going to get some people on the other end that like, oh, our budget is 1.1, you know, and they feel so comfortable because you've taken the time to get to know everything else about them. But certainly it's a very, very warm way of opening up that conversation. And again, this is where we dig. We can get a little bit more information, but it's a pillar question.

It's all about trust, isn't it? Really? That's the crux of this. It's sensitive because consumers don't trust builders when they go to meet them. So that is why they're either reluctant to reveal their budget or they're going to throw out got a false figure. Because they figure if I tell the builder exactly how much I'm prepared to invest, they're just going to spend a lot and maybe I could have got it 50 or $100,000 cheaper. Now, us in the industry, we know that's not true because we know that's not how the industry operates. You know, competition, you know, cease to that and the end of the day, the price is the price. It's going to be what it's going to be. But the budget helps the builder get a gain an understanding really of what they're thinking in, of quality level and inclusions rather than what they're going to ultimately spend. It helps him understand where they want to go with the specifications. But it's very hard to get that across, I think, to consumers because there is this lack of trust at the beginning.

And I guess also the tone of voice when you're navigating through this is just as important too, because if you're feeling uncomfortable having that conversation, I can only imagine what the consumer is feeling. If you feel like you're shaky when you're addressing the budget question or, or coming back from someone that's given you a really small budget, there's not so much you can do with it. I guess the tone of voice is really important to consider when you're maneuvering through this conversation too totally.

It is a conversation. That's the keyword that you just said. It's a conversation. It's not interrogation. It's not the insurance tick and flick Russ just mentioned. It's a conversation. We're just talking here. I'm not locking you into anything. You have the ability to change your mind. We're just talking.

One of our members recently was on the podcast, and he was sharing how he hated sales, hated those conversations, and was nervous and was sweating. So you can kind of imagine how that would come across to the client. You know, if the. If the builder's nervous about this project, you know, should I be concerned? But now, you know, he says it's. He absolutely enjoys the process, and you can just imagine how that comes across to prospects as well. When you're passionate about what you do, it fills the other side with confidence.

What are some of the best practices when asking discovery questions, and what are the things to avoid?

Well, I think I'll just carry straight on from where Russ and Sky have kind of left this because they've covered the first one. And that is, this is a conversation. And if you're having a conversation, you take your time and you have a sip of gin in between, and you work through it at the pace that works for both of you. And that's the key. I don't think you can rush this. Whereas the first part of this is maybe fairly staccato and kind of anybody can do it. We say it so often on this podcast, people buy from people that they know like and trust. So we've covered trust fairly well already. But this is the conversation where people get to know you and like you and vice versa. You've heard me say it before. Building a home or renovating or remodeling a home often takes longer than some marriages. This is not a quick, you know, I love. I hadn't heard that before today, but, you know, tick and flick. That's not what this is. And as much as the client is assessing you, you need to be assessing them, because we have so many of our members, and particularly the guys that are in the mentoring program, who become almost lifelong friends with a lot of their clients because of the relationship that has been built over the 18 months and the trust that has come out of the way they've handled that building project. This is your opportunity to decide whether or not you want to spend the next 12 months of your life with this person. And the number of builders that have told us that at the end of this process, they just had that gut feel that this wasn't a good idea, then they ignored it, and then they realized three months in, they should not have ignored it. So this is really the key here. This is where you start to make those decisions. Do I want to move ahead with this, with this project? And really, it's. Slow it down, have a conversation and listen more than you talk.

That's a really good point. And I think we can learn a lot from the airline industry in that regard, because Sky's brother is a pilot. And as of part, part of the interview process, which is very long and very demanding. But I remember him saying to me, he said, at the end of the day, what they're really trying to figure out is, could another parlor sit in the cabin for 12 hours with this guy? They don't want people, you know, they're not going to get on with the, you know, not going to fit the culture. Yeah. They're not going to be able to get along with people in a confined space for an extended period of time. And they reject pilots or potential pilots on that basis. And that's what we got to be looking at in this industry as well. Can I exist in a close relationship with this person for the next 12 months, or do I want to?

If not, you think of your team here, because this is company culture.

Yeah. I mean, you don't want to be building Richard Cranium's next house. That's just the reality. Stay away from it.

What you're talking about now is not only just looking for red flags, you're also looking at how to protect your team and your members and everyone in the company as well. Protecting time, which is a big currency for everyone as well. So I'm going to throw that question out there. What are the red flags to look out for during this discovery process, other than the fact that we want to have someone that we enjoy working for?

There's a couple of questions that we always give our members to ask during this part of the process. One of them is, have you built before? Yeah, a lot of people would have built before, especially if they're building their dream home. And you follow on from that. So what did you like about that builder, and what did you like about the build process? Because when you ask someone what they liked about something, they're sure enough they're going to tell you what they disliked about it and the hardships and the problems. Yeah, they're going to come out pretty quick. So that's all very good intel. But if they like the builder and they built before, one of the questions you've got to be asking is, you know, will that builder be quoting on this job? Because if they say yes, that is a huge red flag, you know, why would you be talking to me? They probably won't share with you. Well, I'm just Price checking him to keep him honest. But yeah, that is a complete waste of your time. So, yeah, that's not the conclusion you want to get to at that part of the discovery process. But better you get to it now than three months down the line when you spent a lot of time offering your expertise. Another one, I think that's important really during the discovery process is extracting who is going to be involved in the decision making process. Yeah, there's a. Husband and wife are both decision makers here and you can't take this stuff for granted. Sometimes there might be a third person not suggesting anything untoward here. But yeah, there could be another relation that's included in the financing. But we need to understand who these people are very early because we don't want them coming in right at the death where they can only make a decision based on price. We want them in at the beginning of the process so that they can understand the value and we can also understand their fears and what's important to them. And when you do get those people that come to you and they've got this budget already fixed in their head because someone down the pub has told them this is what builders work on, it's X per square meter. Yeah. So all of a sudden they're an expert, which is quite dangerous. So for those kind of people, you, rather than being dismissive or disqualifying or telling them that they're dreaming, just to simply ask them, well, you know, what have you based that budget on? Because this can kind of reveal some red flags for you as well. So as you can see, they're all very soft questions and in themselves it's not a yes, no red flag, but as you go deeper, you're going to kind of uncover things that for sure, as you're halfway through the build, you'll be thinking, I wish I'd asked that.

It's interesting. What are some of the conversational techniques that can get the most out of the prospects that you're going through a discovery process through?

Well, Andy mentioned it before. We've got two ears and one mouth. So the most important thing is to actually listen. And actually listen. I can't stress that it's not being quiet just for the sake of being quiet. I asked you a question. You're supposed to answer, really listen, and if we do not understand with total clarity what they mean, clarify it we have to be able to understand everything, not. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I think I understand it. No, actually understand it. So there are a couple techniques that can be used. The first one is obvious and it is silence. And it's purely. If we can build this habit of not interrupting people, not liking the sound of our own voice more than others, we need to be able to actually ask a question and let them speak. And a really good technique is just staying silent, even in your head. Count to three before speaking again once the other person has finished talking. Because often they might just be pausing for breath, they might be gathering their thoughts and they might be ready to keep going. So if you can just hold off in your response just for a little bit, that silence there, naturally some people can feel quite uncomfortable so they are going to fill it and they're going to keep talking. And it's a nice invitation for someone to keep talking. If that was it, there was just silence. You've counted to three and there's no more. You can use some other techniques. So we talk about mirroring. This is a fabulous technique. It's actually in the book Never Split the Difference. Chris Foss highly recommend reading that book. It's a great book. Everyone on our team has read it. And Chris Voss, he teaches this concept called mirroring. And it's not that whole nlp. You're copying their body language and they sit back, you sit back, they lean forward, you lean forward. It's a concept of say they talk about. Yeah, we have built before, but that was about 10 years ago. And so you say 10 years ago, you just repeat the last two, three or few words that they have said, repeat it back to them with a slight inflection. It's as if you've just asked a question but you've not used up all the questions you're allowed to answer ask because it wasn't really a question, you've just repeated what they say or what they did just say. So if they're saying, we haven't really thought about a budget, you haven't really thought about a budget. You know, it's just repeating it back to them to sort of say it's okay, keep talking, you were halfway through a sentence, let's keep going. So that's a really good technique. Another technique that you can use is instead of asking a lot of follow up questions, which is fabulous, you know, tell me, tell me more about that or you know, how do you mean those kind of follow up questions? And trying to get some clarity at awesome. But using statements to respond to what they've just said. So statements like, okay, tell me a little bit more about that, because that wasn't a question. There's no inflection. There could be a statement like, that must be really frustrating, or that must be difficult, or that must be stressful. It's an invitation to. Yeah, it is. Because of this and because of that. And we get to go so, so, so much deeper. So there are a lot of techniques you can use to get the other person talking and keep talking. And again, we are listening, actively listening, and we haven't mentioned it at all in this episode, but it's too important. Not to mention, and I know it's boring, but write everything down because there is no point in doing a 45 minute to an hour's discovery. And you don't have detailed notes, you may as well not have done it. We don't remember everything. No one on your team, I don't care how good their memory is, remembers everything. And if they're away or they go on vacation or they're sick and you need to pick it up, you have no idea where it left off. So make those notes.

Notes.

Notes matter. And you have the perfect opportunity to take down as many notes as possible because they're the ones doing all the talking. You're just inviting them.

And there's a great opportunity as well. If you're doing the discovery on the phone is to utilize the mute button, because when the other person's speaking, if you hit the mute button, that's going to create a delay for when you can jump back into the conversation. And that little delay can encourage people to go deeper as well. Now, we call this embracing the silence. And, yeah, not being fearful of the silence, because all to happen, you know, salespeople, they want to keep the conversation going and the other person might finish speaking, they're still kind of thinking, gathering their thoughts, and you can move away too quickly, whereas if you just let that silence hang, they can continue and go deeper and then you can get some real gold. And I guess we're talking here in terms of, of the builder, the owner of the company doing this. But if you've got a team, this is where it's really powerful to have recordings so that you can listen to those and actually coach your team. Because it's one of the things that we found over the years to be one of the biggest gaps for listening to salespeople. They're jumping back in way too quick. And it's a very, very simple Thing that you can do, which makes the prospect feel a lot more comfortable and reveals a lot more insight as well.

And always have an excuse up your sleeve, because if you're silent for too long and maybe they were finished talking and there really is that awkward gap, you might hear them say on the other end of the phone, either you still there? And you're like, yeah, I am. I'm just making some notes. Or, you know, I was just thinking about what you're saying. Have those ready. It's actually fine. And it goes to what we were talking about before. If you have that cool, calm, conversational energy, suddenly it's not awkward anymore. They're just like, are you there? Yeah, I'm here. I was just making a couple notes about what you said. I found it really interesting you said this. Tell me more about that. And it's a really easy way to come back from that.

Interesting, because you're also asking the builders to be present and mindful, which. Which is an interesting observation because we're in this day and age right now with that is so important to create an authentic conversation. That's what I got from that entire presence, is to teach people to be present as well.

And you got to let them know. I completely hear what you're saying. What do you mean by this? You know, really tell them, like, those are good words. Because you're like, okay, great.

Yeah, it's interesting. I think when I look at the sales process as well, I remember a time when if someone sell me something and they come back and remind me about something that I said that I didn't even remember saying, it actually goes, okay, he was actually paying attention, or she was actually paying attention. So that's an interesting thing as well, is when people take notes and they remember things. Things as well.

And that's a great one as well, because that is consistency. That reminder is reminding them to stay consistent with what they've previously said, which is incredibly powerful.

So where do builders struggle with the discovery process? We've talked so much about the best practices. We've talked about the hidden secrets and some of those questions. But where do they really struggle?

Well, I think, Bosco, the answer to that lies in exactly what you asked. There is no process for most builders. Most builders see this as best, a necessary evil. They generally don't like doing it. And it is not a process. It's not something where they have systematically sat down and worked out. I'm going to take an inquiry through these six steps to get them to a place where I'M ready to propose a multi hundred thousand or million dollar contract to them. So it's actually the lack of process that causes the struggle. And then obviously we've touched on the fact that a lot of people learn bad habits. And because they don't know any better, it's not because they're in any way deficient, it's just they're ignorant. I read this wonderful quote the other day that says we're all born ignorant, but we have to work really hard to stay stupid. It's one of those things that as soon as somebody goes through an understanding of, if I have a repeatable important word process, I'm going to say this, then I'm going to say that I'm going to ask this question, then that question. It's all leading to a conclusion. And you know, we've spoken about techniques and things here. I think it's important just to make it clear this is not Jedi mind tricks. This is not let me manipulate you to do something you don't want to do. This is a genuine conversation. Sky said it earlier, seek first to understand, make sure that the cookie that this client wants you can actually bake. Don't take them for your sake and theirs through weeks or months of preparation to find out they want a chocolate chip and you busy making coconut cream. Okay, you don't want to do that. So the struggle here is one, builders often don't have enough leads. Therefore they're desperate. And because they desperate, they try and cut corners. There's number one, number two, no process. They need to sit down. And what they'll find in a lot of cases, if they think about successful sales, they'll start to see the commonality. I did this, then I did that, that, then I said this, then I said that. Those are the kind of nuggets that they need to look for. And the big thing here is they're in a hurry, they're time poor. They want to get this done and out of the way. This is worth every minute that you invest into it. No matter what the outcome is. If you do your job properly in this and the answer is we're not proceeding, that is such a blessing because it frees you up to be able to work with people that you will be able to solve whatever their problem is or help them get into that home of their dreams.

I think another one as well for builders in this process that yeah, they can struggle with is trying to solve the clients or the prospect's problems or concerns too quickly. Because when you're Going into this process and you're listening to concerns and challenges, what you must remember is this is a consultant approach. And what we need to do is to let the tension build, because tension leads to attention and this is what we really want from the prospect. So when they start revealing things that might have gone wrong, you don't leap in there and explain how that won't happen with you. Because you've got this process and they come up with another concern and you've got this guarantee that covers it off. You're just listening and making notes, like Skye said, very important. And you'll tie it all together at the end in a summary. But moving too quickly to address those problems, that can just release tension.

It gets people's backup, doesn't it? It's sort of like, well, you don't know anything about me just yet. Just hold on. Like, who are you to tell me you're better? You've no idea. You know, there's no permission earned.

I actually learned this technique from a builder when I was selling software. And this builder, he called to cancel, told me why he was canceling. I just leapt straight in to give him the solution as to why that wasn't a problem, why that wasn't valid. And he just told me to shut up and listen.

There we go.

That's interesting. I have a question about the builders, actually. And Andy, you brought this up too, that in past episodes. And I think, Andy, you also, Russ, you also talked about this too, where we had builders that hated the process and then they got to love it.

It.

And the question that I had is, how did you create that transformation from not being so comfortable with the sales process to loving the sales process? Is it the fact that the routine of practice and the routine of having consistency in building a process, in this entire process, is that what created success and that's what gave the builders confidence. How did you get them to love the sales process?

We're all applying the silence technique now just to kind of. No, from what I've seen, it is really found. The foundational solution is we have turned it into a process. We've broken it down into manageable, sequential, logical steps, and then we work with them on each step. You can't go to Discovery till you've done qualification. Let's get qualification nailed first. Once we can do that in our sleep, then let's work on qualification. Then let's go to concept, then let's go to prelim, then let's go to proposal, then let's go to presentation and as each component gets worked on, and more than that, they start to see it working. They see that they're getting the results that we told them they'd get. That's what builds the confidence to the point that they actually start to enjoy it.

Procedures make everything a lot less emotional. So you're not hoping that you can build for everyone, because if you then disqualify them, you're not getting them to a certain part in your process, and just doing anything to get them over the line because you need them at that point makes it so much less emotional. And so it makes it easier to move on, I think. And then that transformation really happens because it's almost, in a sense, it gives builders permission to let go of certain people and move on and then go talk to someone else or permission to go deeper and talk for a lot longer with particular people as well.

And we've. We've spoken a lot about niche. You know, we don't want to build for everybody. That's the reality. We want to make sure that the people we build for are the people that we can really be successful with and for. And if we can get to that point of. That's really part of what this process is, is making sure that there's a good fit between what we can deliver and what they're looking for. And if we get that part right, this becomes an absolute pleasure.

So consistency builds comfort, and comfort builds confidence.

There you go. Look at you. You should make T shirts.

Paying attention. I'm paying attention. Well, my final question for all of you today is where can the builders get some of these amazing resources and tips and questions, and where can they go to get help to become better salespeople?

I think a great starting point to not only go deeper on the whole qualifying, but understanding the WHO sales process as well, and how it affects every part of a building company would be to go to Amazon and get the book Professional Builders Secrets. It's also available on Audible, but that will give builders some great insights into not just discovery, but the entire sales process.

And, you know, again, let's. We. This is not. It's not a plug. It's just an answer to your question. We've got some really good resources on our website around the subject. And obviously, if anybody's not yet a member, becoming a member of the association would put them straight into the ability to actually do all of our training on this particular subject, which makes it really easy.

I love Andy. He's always plugging membership in every single podcast episode. Without fail. You are.

We want members. We love members.

Well if it's anyone, if it helps I have done some of the training and I have to say the training, I think I called it the Netflix for training because it is amazing. I've gone through different layers and lots of different steps covered through this process and I've got to say it's definitely given us a lot of confidence to learn more about this topic. So yeah, I want to thank everyone for your time, your energy today and another insightful interview. I look forward to jamming with you some more in the future. But again thanks for being here.

Thanks Bosco.

Great episode. Thanks Bosco.

Thanks Bosco.

Thank you for listening. Remember to subscribe to Professional Builder Secrets on your favorite podcast platform and leave a review. To learn more about how the systems at the association of Professional Builders can help you grow your building company, visit associationofprofessionalbuilders. Com. See you next time.