53. Mindset of a Professional Builder With Clint Best

I sort of think of mindset as the key to unlocking your potential. You're not going to learn from your successes. You're always going to be learning from your failures. You don't need to be a mathematician or a scientist to understand the numbers in your business. The mind is like a parachute. It works better when it's open. Growth is about recognizing the effort as opposed to the result. Good is what keeps people away from getting great because they put a cap on things.

This is Professional Builder Secrets, the number one podcast to help you grow your building company safely and securely. Brought to you by the association of Professional Builders. Join us every week as we talk to industry experts and your fellow professional builders on everything you need to know to generate more leads, more sales, and higher margins while improving the building experience for your clients. Hello and welcome to the Professional Builder Secrets podcast, a podcast by the association of Professional Builders for building company owners, general managers, VPs, and emerging leaders. Here we discuss all things running a professional building company from sales processes, financials, operations and marketing. We have another exciting episode from the Professional Builder Secrets podcast. I'm joined today by Clint Best, executive business coach with association of Professional Builders. Clint, lovely to have you back again. How have you been, man?

Hey, Bosco, I've been fantastic.

That's great.

You know, learning and growing all the time.

Absolutely, absolutely. Well, I'm really excited to be talking about the mindset of a professional builder today and, you know, let's get cracking. My first question for you is, how does mindset or successful mindset impact a professional building company? And should builders care about having a positive mindset?

Yeah, well, you know, that's a super easy one, of course, because how could it not impact them? Because what we're talking about is I sort of think of mindset as the key to unlocking your potential. You know, having a healthy mindset or having the right mindset. And we'll get into that, but really, you know, it's really the key source of leverage in life and in business. You know, I think about concepts like the. I'm trying to think of the. The. The author's name, but the law of the lid. And we have all these things that keep us where we are or stuck or limited. And I think when you work on your mindset and it's really about how you're thinking about things. Right. It's really about what's driving your thoughts, what's behind those things. Yeah, when you, when you start to release and unlock your thinking, you start.

To release and unlock your potential can you categorize mindsets? Like, what are the various types of mindsets that you could potentially have?

Well, you know, there's a book called Mindset written by Carol Dweck, and it's been out for quite a few years. And in there she makes the case between a growth mindset and a fixed mindset. And so a lot of people will be familiar with that. They might not be familiar with her as the author. It's a great book. I highly recommend it. A simple way to think of it is open and closed, right? Growth is open leads to growth. Fixed is closed, kind of keeps you stuck, right? So, you know, I guess to sort of drill down into that a little bit further. Growth is about recognizing the effort as opposed to the result in putting more emphasis. Fixed. Most fixed mindset, you know, might put a little too much weight on talent. And, you know, you're sort of born with the talent you have, and those are the cards that you've been dealt. So stick with that. And, you know, so it's very limited in that way and it's subtle. Right. I mean, we don't think. We think that way. Right. But if we really kind of dial up our self awareness, we can see where that might be getting in our way. So, you know, obviously the growth mindset recognizes that you can learn anything if you want. I was just. I recently listened to Sky's podcast on skills, right. Skill building. And, you know, so. So the growth mindset is really connected to that idea of building skills. And I can learn anything if I put in the effort.

And it's interesting that it's. I find it really fascinating that she talks about fixed versus growth. The author that you talked about, Carol, because I thought you were going to say positive and negative mindset, but then I just realized that's an emotion. It's not necessarily just a mindset. So I thought it was really cool that you talked about, you know, from looking at it from a constant state of being in a progressive state of being. I know the association of Professional Builders advocates for playing to people's strengths. How does this fit into the concept of mindset? Through the coaching programs that you guys have and the mentoring programs. How do you bring this to the coaching? And how do you get your builders to play to their strengths?

Everybody has their strengths and weaknesses at any given point in time. And obviously, if a fixed mindset is about just doing what you're good at, which you're already talented at, and a growth mindset means that you can get better at things when Somebody decides to make improvements in their business, and they reach out to an organization like ours to help them and help accelerate that effort. Oftentimes they've got to earn the right, I guess you could say, or they got to get there first. Right. So they might be a sole operator that needs to. Still needs to kind of juggle all the balls or work in all areas of the business. And. But the way that the growth mindset fits into that is that is when they start identifying, start setting goals, start prioritizing areas of the business. And of course, we help them with that. We help them do that strategically. Right? Because you can't do everything at once. So picking those spots that are gonna help you based on where you are right now, and then prescribing the training and the learning, that will help them to implement the structure into their business and help them develop themselves personally to overcome those things. And so eventually they can. They can start delegating more things. Right. And, you know, as they increase their profits and their resources and their ability to bring on more people or invest in more technology and continue to build their business, there's a whole learning curve that comes with that. So as you go, you can earn the right to play to your strengths. Right. In other words, as you develop those things in your business, you put yourself in the position or create the circumstances for a builder to do the things they're really good at and the things that they really enjoy. Does that make sense?

Yeah. No, absolutely. So give me an example. What are the various examples specifically for the builders out there and for our listeners who are builders as well? What is a classic example of a fixed mindset for a builder versus what is the classical example of a growth mindset for a professional builder? So let's just say I'm a builder. I'm coming to you for coaching. What would be the two different patterns between the two?

Yeah. So again, you don't always know whether you're not always aware that you're in a growth or a fixed mindset. It really comes out in your behavior, as do most things.

So.

So what I found is that people who are in a fixed mindset, you know, struggle to get their. Their homework done in between coaching sessions. Right. And so they're kind of in that victim area making. Making excuses or blaming it on. On something or. And. And obviously somebody who's in a better place in a fixed mindset is kind of eager to dig into that homework. They really enjoyed it. They get on the call, they're excited because they learned something. Right, so you mean.

You mean the. Would do that, not the fix. The growth mindset would be that they want to actually, like, they're eager to grow their. Let's use the wipa, for example. They'd be, you know, all over it. They'll be coming to you going, hey, we've just done this. Take a look at it. Tell me what you think. That's the growth mindset, right?

Yeah, exactly.

They're.

They've put in the effort.

Yeah, Right.

They've pushed through whatever's in their way or not in their way, because they have a growth mindset.

Right.

And they're experiencing success, which, of course, motivates them to experience more success. So, yeah, that's. I mean, in simple terms, that would be it. Right? I mean, because growth mindset, people who are operating in a growth mindset are students. They're learners.

Right.

What's the old, old story? Learners are earners. Yeah. Right.

So this seems to be a really good pattern here, because what you're saying is really, if you have a growth mindset, you'll see it in the execution. The devil's in the details of the execution, right? They'll actually. They'll actually go above and beyond what. What's expected is what you're. What you're really coming at me with.

Well, absolutely. And. And through encouragement, people can get out of the fixed mindset. I mean, that's the key here, Right. The key point is that it's a choice, right? It really is a choice to stay there. And, of course, one of the things that we do as coaches is we, you know, try to shed more light on the benefits and of making a change.

Right. We'll have to have another podcast episode for people that don't do their homework and what Clint does to get them to do their homework. But that's a whole different podcast. Look, I really find this topic really fascinating. I've done a TED Talk, and it took me so much time to do, and it was something that I had to really have a growth mindset for. I've lost a ton of weight. That was my personal story. I'm just curious, what's your personal experience been on this whole mindset journey? And, you know, if you look back now down memory lane, when did mindset really play a really big role in your life?

Boy, that's a great question. It makes me think of as growing up. You know, I was always, as a kid, right from my early teens, interested in personal development. I found it inspiring. I found it aspirational and Uplifting. I just loved new ideas. I guess I'm a bit of an idea guy. So that led, you know, so that led to some reading and some learning. And so, you know, as, as I progressed in my career in the early days, I was dressed for success was something that I bought into. Right. So, and just learning and applying myself because, I mean, it's a big part of being successful in business is, is that continuous learning and continuous improvement. So I became a student of business as I got my first career job and, and also became a student of building relationships with people and showing up, but not just showing up, showing up in an appropriate way, whether it be the way I was dressed or the way I behaved or the way I was groomed. And that led to promotions. Right. And that led to, you know, better lifestyle. That's been my journey is, is what I've learned in life is that when you stay open and you put yourself out there and you keep your mind open. Right. The mind is like a parachute. It works better when it's open.

Yeah.

So then you, I mean, that leads to the aha moments, which leads to the breakthroughs, which leads to, you know, better results. Right. And, and so that's been my experience. I, I, I'm completely bought into the whole idea.

Well, at the Associated association of Professional Builders, you have all the different business protocols or business units. We talk about sales, we talk about marketing. How does mindset apply for builder within those business protocols?

So that, that's the word that we use, business protocols. And we really talk about them as they really are what most people think of as departments in a business. You know, marketing, sales, operations, or construction, in this case, hr, finance and, and leadership, we think is the one that we believe is the one that sort of lifts everything else up. So we call it the plus one. But yeah, I mean, you know, in all of those areas. So marketing, you think about limiting beliefs, right. That, that hold us back and everybody picks some of those up along the way. Right. So marketing, for instance, you know, spam, you know, all marketing is spam, or I've got to take the customers that are coming to me as opposed to the ones that I really, really want or would enjoy working with. Right. So one of the shifts that people make in their thinking as they learn as they apply themselves, right. And put in the effort and open themselves up to the possibility that there's a different way or a better way, is that great. Marketing doesn't feel like marketing. It's, it's helpful, it's not spammy. And there are. You can get a better quality client, and you can get more of them, you know, if you're just more helpful. So really, you know, sort of engineering your marketing in that way. So in sales, one of the limiting beliefs people have is that salesmen are pushy, right? So they feel like when they're selling that they're being pushy. Right? You know, when really the shift should be to presenting value and having a good process. And when you do that, people start chasing you instead of you chasing them. So operations, you know, communication, or the idea that nobody can do better than me, then you start to learn about delegating and developing those skills. You can see. You can see how the skills. There's skills attached to each one of those disciplines. Hr, your ideal client or ideal employee, you know, and rather than just sort of tolerating what you have, raising the bar and accepting that they're out there, if I learn how to attract more of them to be a better employer, and, you know, what that'll do is, you know, I had a client recently in Saskatchewan here. His name is Todd. He really bought into this idea, stepped out of his comfort zone and learned how to do it differently in a relatively small community, attracted a couple of key people within a short period of time, which, of course ended up giving him a bunch of time back and just, you know, improving his mood and his confidence and everything else.

I'm wondering if this is the same Todd that was on our podcast a few episodes back. Maybe.

I think it was. Todd Lake. Yeah. Shout out to Todd.

That's cool. What you're telling me is it sounds like there's a glass ceiling that needs to be broken in order for the mindset to change as well. Because, you know, you talked about certain trigger points, like, you know, the perception of marketing and sales. You know, let's talk about pricing. You know, pricing. Sometimes people need permission to succeed, to have the right pricing. So would you. Is it fair to say that builders need to break the glass ceiling to give them that permission to succeed?

Oh, absolutely. Because the glass ceiling is the limiting belief. Right? And. But here's the thing, right? Those beliefs seem like the truth to us at the time that we're holding them. So we hold them very close and very tight and down deep, right? So it takes the effort, right. And the openness. That's how you break through those. Those glass ceilings. And. And I'll be honest with you, I mean, and. And, you know, I'm a coach, so obviously I advocate what we do, but the accountability is a big part of that. Right. Because most people will give up. Right. And. And that's really another one of those classic signs of a fixed mindset. Fixed mindset, you give up, really, a growth mindset is all about persevering. And I'll figure out a way, and I'll make it work. Right?

Yeah. I've just figured out that you're also probably not just a coach, but a therapist as well, because you're basically also getting builders to admit things and have like, a really honest conversation with themselves to apply and understand and then change those mindsets. Because it takes a lot to go, hey, this is my limiting belief. It takes a lot of openness and getting rid of the ego and the pride and the fears and going, hey, I'm struggling, or I need to do better in some areas. So that takes a lot from a coaching perspective as well.

Well, you know, people are. Are a big component of business. And so, you know, as a coach, you have to know. Understand people and understand psychology and understand what gets people in people's way and be able to comfortably talk about those things, you know, and we don't know what we don't know. And so. So how do you get around that? Well, again, just opening yourself up to the possibilities and applying yourself and learning and, you know, it's kind of like when that aha moment comes for people and they see that blind spot. Right. And they see it, and sometimes it just happens. Like, it doesn't often happen in the moment that you're talking about it. It usually happens later on when they're doing something else and their mind is relaxed and something else happens, and they connect the dots between this thing and that thing. Right. But you have to trust the process in order to put your. Himself in that position. And then it's kind of like, I kind of think of it as like, you know, a gopher in a gopher hole, and he thinks, that's the whole world. And then finally has that aha moment, pops his head out, looks around and goes, holy. Oh, there's a whole nother world of possibilities out here.

Right, right. Okay, well, psych. You talked about psychology as well. You know, society has a way of putting labels on things. People have a way of putting labels on things. They say that labels play a big role in mindset development as well. Can you give us some of your insight from the front lines and examples of clients that you've worked with where you've, you know, had these areas where they've either been in a label or They've had to crack, you know, the, the glass ceiling as well.

Yeah. So labels really feed those beliefs we're talking about. And of course, you can have positive labels and you can have negative labels, you can have empowering labels, and you can have disempowering labels. So, you know, one of the labels that, that we come across a lot is, you know, I'm not a numbers guy or I'm not good with numbers. Well, you know, the reality is you don't need to know, you don't need to be a mathematician or a scientist. Right. To understand the numbers in your business. And I think what we do, the way that we break down that limiting belief is by, you know, simplifying it for. For our builders and then through repetition and practice, helping them to understand that if they know the key numbers in their business and they're able to control those, you know, it's an entirely different ball game. Suddenly you can be very good with numbers, which doesn't mean, again, that you're. That that's your favorite thing to do or that you're a mathematician. So labels are dangerous. Right. And they're just something that we need to be aware of because people get attached to those things. Right. And I'm not a psychologist, but I know enough to know that, that when you let go of that attachment, things can change pretty quickly.

Right. From everything I know about the association of Professional Builders, you're all about changing the professionalism within this industry. You're all about taking people to a new. To a new height that they haven't achieved before. And I know that, speaking to other builders, they always tell me how the APB has helped them be on the business, not in the business, and they had to overcome some certain myths to get there. I'm just curious, what are some of the most common myths and obstacles that your clients must overcome to start to live that growth mindset?

Ah, well, the first thing they have to do is ask for help. Right?

That's a hard one.

Yeah, no, it can be. It can be because it's. Again, right. If. If you happen to be in that growth mindset or sort of that fixed mindset, then you probably kind of don't want to know that you're there. So it's. It's easier to. To stay stuck. I mean, they have to get a. So they have to get over their fear of failure. Because in a, in a fixed mindset, you know, we tend to be afraid of failure and look at that as a negative thing. In a growth mindset, Kind of flip that around. And, and we look at failure as an opportunity to learn. Right. So you've probably heard old sayings like fail forward. Right. Fail faster forward. Right, Right. Learn, you know, don't you know you're not going to learn from your successes. You're always going to be learning from, from your failures. So getting over that tendency to be too cautious, you know, taking a few more risks, but calculated risks. Right. We talk about helping builders grow safely and securely. So we're not about being careless or reckless. It's really about using proven systems. So that's where our confidence in saying, hey, don't worry, it's not going to hurt you.

Right.

You're going to be fine. It won't hurt you or your, or your business. So I think being judgmental as opposed to, you know, being positive and encouraging with yourself or with others. Yeah, I mean, one of the, one of the hallmarks of, of a fixed mindset is looking for approval. Right. As opposed to really not caring what anybody else thinks. Just feeling confident that you're doing what you need to do to get where you need to go. So does that make sense?

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. How does someone get started on working on their mindset? Okay. So they've, you know, they've come to terms with things. They need help. They realize that. They acknowledge it. Now what happens?

Yeah. So again, right. Start educating yourself. I think Carol Dweck's book Mindset is, is a great book. I think you mentioned one earlier. What was that?

Yeah, it was called the Big Leap by Gay Henriks. And it completely blew my world, I think was one of the catalysts for some of the changes in my life, both personal and professionally. But it talks about being in the conscious zone of genius as a. Opposed to doing things in the unconscious zone of genius. And yeah, I think, I think both, you know, it sounds like Mindset's just, just a great book to read as well.

Yeah. So there you go. Right. You start to start to do some research, start to learn. I think a big part of getting set, Getting started is just setting some goals. Right. Setting some goals and setting some targets. Because, you know, one of the ways that, you know, your, in a growth mindset is that you start to hit your goals and you start to achieve your targets. Right. So you know what another way is just simply looking after yourself. Self care, exercise, making sure you're getting enough sleep, making sure your diet is working for you. Because those things affect your mood. They affect your ability to learn, to take in, to retain information, to Be open to be creative, making a plan and sticking with it. Right. So, so what that does is it forces that perseverance, right? Because you know, you're not overthinking things, you're not letting your feelings direct your actions. Right. Because you know, we don't always feel like doing what we need to do to move ourselves forward. But here's the thing, right? And you might think of feelings or motivation, like what comes first, motivation or action? Well, a lot of people think you need to get motivated to take action, but oftentimes you need to take action to get motivated because you start to get that movement and momentum. So getting started on something, making a plan, sticking to it, and of course.

Getting yourself a coach, I think they call it activation energy too, which, which then leads to the motivation as well. So we've talked about, you know, the hallmarks of what a fixed mindset would look like. And you know, you pointed out a really good one which was, you know, looking for validation from others. Let's look at the other side of the spectrum. So, you know, let's talk about the growth mindset. What are some of the successful habits of high performing building companies that you work with today that you know, you've already transformed from the fix to the growth? What are some of the trends you're seeing in the market and what are those behavioral habits look like?

Yeah, so the behavioral habits would be all of those important but not urgent things that we think about when we think about the Eisenhower grid, for instance. Right. Like planning, developing people and not doing everything yourself. Like, so that would go to training. Right. Really, really dialing up your belief in good training and investing in those things. You know, again, right. On the personal side, exercise and reading, and on the relationship side, hanging out with maybe a higher quality of people. Sometimes as much as that sounds bad. I mean, really, a lot of people stay stuck that way. So I think those are, those are some of the key behaviors that show up. I think that, you know, problem solving, doing more problem solving, that's a, that's a behavior. In other words, not just accepting things, but challenging, you know, challenging things we can do better. You know, what's a better way? That sort of thing. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it's, it's sounds like the human character traits also blend in with the business character traits. From what you're telling me, like when someone's going through a growth mindset, there's a blend of both. It sounds like from what. For what you're getting at, so.

Oh yeah, absolutely. The Two are tied pretty closely together.

Okay, so what are some of the tips on developing a growth mindset that can impact a building company positively? What do you encourage, you know, when you take on a new builder? What are some of those tips that you want them to take on so that they can start seeing the successes? Let's say you're working with a new building company, you know, you're, you're trying to encourage them to move towards a growth mindset. What would those early initial coaching calls look like to get them to that area that you want them to be operating out of?

Well, first of all, we do provide training on mindset just to start opening up their awareness because typically, typically they, I mean some, some are real heavily into personal development and then there's a whole spectrum of people. But okay, so first of all, the accountability, right, and calling people out and asking them the challenging questions and asking them a lot of open ended questions to get them to think and to get them to. And then sort of allowing for that awkward pause while they are thinking. Right. And not letting them off the, off the hook. So accountability is, is a big tool that we use and it shows up in those ways. Providing a safe environment, I think is a, is another really important part of working with anyone. Creating the conditions where people feel like they can be vulnerable and open up and let go of those things or, you know, start that process. So I think those would be big ones.

Okay, what are some key benefits that come with developing a growth mindset for builders? Where does the benefit show up in the business typically?

Well, the big benefit of course is just the return on investment, you know, financially that's, that's always going to be there. But I think other benefits are, you know, on a personal level, just feeling, feeling fulfilled. Right. Or filled full. Right. As they say. And just that, that level of satisfaction in what you're doing and that transfers onto the team. So it really just the process of learning and growing. Bosco. Right. I mean you're a, you're a student of life, right? Once you've had it, man, once you get a taste of that, it's addicting. It is addicting and in a very good way.

Right, right. So from a coaching perspective, where do you measure a success mindset? Are there any metrics that a positive growth mindset could show up? You know, let's use the building side of things. You know, what metrics do you look at when you're working with your CL clients to know that they are in a growth mindset?

Well, that's easy because we have a whole set of KPIs. We have them track key performance indicators. That would be the acronym KPI. And, and so whether those be, you know, on their P and L or in their sales process and their marketing process at the team level, when those dials or those start to go in the right direction and those targets are hit, it doesn't always happen, you know, quickly. You know, sometimes it takes effort to move them. So patience and persistence are key. But yeah, I think, you know, the metrics are in the business. Right. And then of course, and so you know, your leads, your conversion rates in your, in your sales, the quality of your leads, the number of leads that you're getting, and of course, your, you know, your margins, it's going to show up there. And then of course, on the personal level, you're going to feel less overwhelmed, you're going to do more in less time. Right. So you're going to get more done in less time because you're coming more efficient, etc. Your team's going to probably grow. Are those kind of metrics you're.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just curious because obviously, you know, you're dealing with mindset often on the calls. I'm just curious how you do. You keep the builders accountable. But it sounds like you guys have systems in place to know how that accountability measures up as well.

And, and I would. I. Sorry, Bosco. I just have to sort of reassert that if they're not gonna. Those targets are not going to be met. Typically, if they have a fixed mindset, it's just because they're not going to do the work. Yeah, yeah. It's really difficult to coach somebody that stays in there, stays in that fixed mindset. They really have to come out of it.

Fair enough, fair enough. I think I know the answer to this, but I'm going to ask it because I've always thought about this as well.

Sure.

Is there destination on a successful or growth mindset or is it a continuous, constant work in progress? You know, I'm always thinking about this at the back of my mind. Is there a place of nirvana that says, hey, you know, you've arrived, or is that something that continuously changes over time?

Well, I'm sure you do know the answer to this. And the answer is, of course there's. It's unlimited. It's unlimited. Right. Possibilities. Potential is unlimited. It'll be different for everyone because everybody has their own version of nirvana. Right. And. But the reality is, I mean, how, how, you know, Good to great. Right. Is a perfect example of that. Right. It's good is what keeps people away from getting great because they put a cap on things. And at the same time, I think what people realize is that there's such a sense of empowerment that comes from being and staying in a. In a growth mindset where at some point, at different points, you will shift to different areas of your life. Right? Right. From your business goals to your relationship goals, to your health goals, to maybe your spiritual goals or any of those things. So. So I'm not advocating by any means that being successful in a building company is all about being rich and famous or, you know, those. Those sorts of things. It's really about being happy and fulfilled and feeling like your. Your life is balanced and, and you're enjoying it.

Fair enough. Fair enough. Look, I could talk to you for hours on Mindset, but I'm conscious of our time today together. But I'm going to end with one really important question, and I guess it's a future perspective, but a current perspective as well. We're living in a world right now with so many uncertainties and challenges and pressures for building companies as well. Builders are feeling it. You know, they've been feeling it for a few years now. But how do we hold ourselves accountable as business owners, as builders, as professionals? How do we hold ourselves accountable to ensure that we maintain ourselves and not let the challenges and pressures of this world get in the way of what we're trying to achieve? And I'm sure it comes across your calls with your clients as well, where, you know, they talk to you about some of the current challenges or the uncertainty as well. You know, how do you help them or empower them stay true to where they want to go?

One of the ways that we do that is we keep it real. One of the quickest ways to fail and to make bad decisions is to operate from a place of fear because. Well, for obvious reasons, I like to think of it as staying realistically optimistic. Right. Being a realistic optimist. Because the reality is, Bosco, in terms of trends is we've been living in a hyper sort of heated economy for a number of years now. So we're simply, in a lot of ways, just course correcting right now. And particularly it's been particularly unhealthy, I think, in the construction world. Right. In the building world. Because of course, when there's way, the kind of demand that's been placed on the building industry and then with the upset in, you know, in supply chains and, and those kind of things to exasperate those that overheated industry really, you know, even though people have been busy, nobody's really winning. I mean, I think as things cool down and this is where mindset will be so, so important. Right. Because those, those builders who have been working on themselves and on their businesses and quietly putting the right things in place will still be there when the dust settles. We've fervently believe that. So I think there's a lot of healthy things that are going to happen. You know, again, in a positively realistically optimistic mindset, we're going to see the demands on employees start to improve and the demands on materials and supplies. You know, all of those things are going to lead to, I think, a better result for a better outcome for both the customer and the builder. But again, right. We have to be, you know, growth mindset is, leads to a resilience and flexibility. Right. That they can't be achieved in a fixed mindset. So as things change, we need to change along with them and we have to be following what's going on and interpreting those in a kind of an empowering, positive way. Not, not walking around with rose colored glasses, but really making well educated, well timed decisions and, and yeah, those are the guys that are going to win.

Any final words for our listeners out there around mindset? Any words of wisdom from you before we wrap it up?

I think I've said it all so far. I would just encourage, you know, anybody who is not happy with where they're at right now to really take a hard look in the mirror and say, how am I getting in my own way and how can I, how can I make some improvements to that?

I think someone wise said once to me, know who you're becoming. Right. And that sort of changes the entire conversation. So I think that really resonates with me too. Well, Clint, it was a pleasure talking to you again. It's been a while, but I'd love to have you back again in the future. But always appreciate the stimulation that you bring on these, on these interviews and I wish with you well in the, in the future calls as well.

Thank you, Bosco. It's been an absolute pleasure. So right back at you. Hope, hope life treats you well till we see each other again.

Thanks for joining us today, mate.

Thanks, Bosco.

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