70. Why Every Builder Must Have Tenacity With Stacey Shotwell

So I'm 100% honest about everything that goes on with the homes. You have to just lay out all of your expectations up front. Once I got apb, I was able to zone right in on my weaknesses. It gave me so much more confidence in being a builder. To be successful, you got to stick to your plan and you have to be able to roll with the punches.

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Hello and welcome to the Professional Builder Secrets podcast, a podcast by the association of Professional Builders for building company owners, general managers, VPs, and emerging leaders. Here we discuss all things running a professional building company from sales, processes, financials, operations, and marketing. We have another exciting episode from the Professional Builder Secrets podcast. Joining us today is Stacey Shotwell, project manager with Parks Hatherley Custom Homes. Stacey, lovely to have you on board.

Ah, great to be here. Thanks for having me.

So, Stacy, tell us a little bit about what you do today and how did you get into this fabulous world of building?

Okay, so I'm in the Dallas Fort Worth area. I'm building homes in an area called Gunter Frisco Prosper in that area. And I got into the world of construction through real estate. I used to actually be a barber, and I started flipping homes and couldn't find the workers to get my homes done. So I had to stop cutting a customer, ran out to the job site and started working on my own homes. And then it just became an issue where I was at the homes every day working, and people started saying, hey, can you fix this? Can you do that? And I became a contractor slash barber. That's what really got me started.

So I've got to ask, do you still barber on the side today?

No, I stopped cut. I cut my last customer in November of 1997.

Oh, it's been a while. Okay, fair enough. Fair enough.

Yeah.

So how did you. How did you. Let's, you know, let's talk about this. So you were. You were cutting hair. How did you get started in the industry? And how did you discover your purpose in life? Was this your purpose in life?

Well, and that's a good. That's a good question. So my family were builders in Bermuda. That's where I'm actually from. From Bermuda. And my grandfather kind of him and my uncle kind of raised me. I had a dad in the house, but my grandfather and my uncle, they really were instrumental in my upbringing, is what I should say. And I used to be on the job site with them in Bermuda, which is a total different construction process. But so my grandfather passed, and we were very close. And one night I had a dream about him. Well, it was an event. I don't know if it was a dream or not, but he came to me and told me that I'm supposed to be building homes. And he showed me a future picture of us, and he was guiding me in. I was. I was backing in a tractor or something, and we're building a subdivision. He's like, this is what you're supposed to be doing. And I woke up like, what? And that kind of let me know, okay, maybe I shouldn't be in this hair industry. I need to be doing something else.

And.

And that's what really got me, got my mind going into construction.

So when you get started, obviously you have some mistakes that everyone makes in the industry that you always remember, you know, and sort of define your journey. What were some of those memorable mistakes that you made when you first got started that sort of defined who you are today?

Trusting everybody to do what they said they were going to do?

Oh, it's a simple start.

Yeah. Yeah. Because when you're starting out, you don't know that people out to get you. You're thinking that, okay, I'm honest. So they're honest. So we're gonna. This is gonna be a beneficial relationship. But then you just. You see what's going on, and you have to. You have to put those blockers up to hold everybody off. And starting out, you don't do that. You let everybody in. You talk too much, you believe too much, and those are. That's, like, the biggest pitfall. And I still carry that around to this day. We have a screening process for our customers. I don't even talk to our customers until maybe the third or fourth meeting because of that. Because I'm a nice guy sometimes, and, yeah, I'll give away the farm, so I have to do that.

So, you know, tell me a little bit about being burnt. I guess, you know, you talked a little bit about how that sort of stays with you. What were some of either the worst clients or subcontractors that you've had, and what do you learn from that? And how do you avoid getting more like that?

So the worst customer ever had was Mrs. Johnson. Ms. Johnson, if you're watching I'm sorry, but you were the worst. So. And there's. I've ran into Ms. Johnson since then. There's a Ms. Johnson on every block. So these Ms. Johnson's, they want you to give them everything that they didn't ask for, but they believe that you should know they want it so. And to stop that from happening, you have to just lay out all of your expectations up front. So that's how I prevent it from happening now. And I still run into a few Ms. Johnson's here and there, but I'm able to mitigate how much we lose in the. In the transaction as far as information, conversation, because I lay out this is what we're going to do. Nothing, nothing extra is going to happen. If you need me to know something, please let us know before we get started. I don't. You can't do any changes after stage two with us. Once the foundation is poured, there's no more changes. So that really stops all that from happening.

And that reflects, I guess, in your contracts, right? That. That probably reflects in your contracts. Okay. Okay.

But you know, customers don't always go back. They just, they. They do what they want to do anyway.

Fair enough. So what are you known today for in the industry? By your clients. Obviously you've been doing this now for a while. You mentioned that you're in the Dallas area as well. So, you know, what, what do they. What do they know when they pick up the phone? Parks Happily Custom Homes.

So I actually started when I moved to Dallas. I couldn't bring my company. I had to work for a different builder. So I worked for the largest national home builder in the world. I worked for them for seven years. And I created a Persona that I carry around with me now. And it was the guy I wanted to be then, but I couldn't be. And that's the honest guy. So I'm 100% honest about everything that goes on with the homes. And I don't give them false pretenses. I don't give false expectations. I tell them upfront I can do this, but it's not my specialty. I don't like it. If that's what you want, we can do it. And beautiful. So the word beautiful. When I was working for Lennar, I used to get these big banners and I would stick them on all my doors, and it said, this beautiful Lennar home is being built by Stacy Shotwell. So then people started calling Lennar, asking for Stacy Shotwell to build their home. So that really pushed me out there, and I Got a lot of customer, clients, prospects that will call and say, can you build us a home? Right now I cannot because I'm working for a different builder. And I just said their name like four times. Sorry about that. So that kind of propelled me into the area of being known as being honest and upfront right there. So I have a lot of customers that are from the India population, Indian population. And that's one thing that hits big with them. Like, they know they can trust me. They've been told that they had the same situations before where they get lied to by contractors, and I'm the only one that's been honest with them. So I'd say the honesty, that's like the big thing.

Would you say that you've got, you've had to build some tenacity as well where you are today? And if so, why should every builder be tenacious in this industry?

Well, not only every building, everybody in the world, anybody that wants to improve themselves, improve upon their business, their marriage, their relationship with the children, you have to have tenacity. I, I use a different word to describe tenacity. I use grit. Because sometimes being tenacious can be dirty. And grit allows for a little dirt to get on your fingernails. And you have to put in that grit, put in work to get accomplished what you're trying to do. And you have to be able to roll with the punches. And speaking of the punches, like, like Mike Tyson said, and building is a lot like a boxing match. You come out, ding, ding, ding. You start and then the punches fly. You get hit, and you have to think, Mike Tyson says, everybody's got a plan until I punch him in the face. And that's how construction is every day. You get up in the morning, you're like, okay. And then wham, wham. All day long. So that tenacity, that's what allows you to fall back on the ground, pick up your, your plan and say, okay, I'm supposed to do this. Let me stick to the plan. So you have to, you have to have that. If you don't have tenacity, you're not going to be. You'll last maybe a year and a half in industry, and that will be purely for marketing.

Right. So what goes into having a great mindset? And when was the last time you had to apply that mindset for your own business as well?

Yeah, I got that right there. Mindset and gratitude right behind me. Because I had a lot of issues in my first endeavor with custom homes. I hired a professional business coach, and he's also a licensed therapist. So whenever my mindset gets kicked out of line, I can pick up the phone, make a call, and get right back there. The mindset is. It's the difference between saying yes to something that's going to cost you an extra ten grand, or saying no. Your mindset could say, oh, well, I didn't deliver, so I better do what I can to keep this client happy. Or you can be in the mindset where I'm delivering the perfect product to you so I don't have to take a loss. We can discuss this, and we can make it beneficial for both parties. So that mindset is extremely important as well.

When you look at your success today, what were some of those tenacious moves that you had to make? And you mentioned a little bit about your family, right?

Telling them no, like, I'm not going to accept this negative belief you have about me. I'm going to stick to my plan and I'm going to make it happen. That that was the hardest part. Everything else, like, I expect everybody else to have put up resistance, but I didn't expect it from my family. That was rough. And getting licensed was rough as well.

Why was the getting a license rough? Was it the critics around you that were constantly saying, you can't do this, or was it sort of your own inner battles? How did you overcome that?

I was operating in a city that was corrupt, and I didn't have the right politicians around me to secure a contracting license. So I had to take the test a few times to pass. I answered the questions the exact same way every time. Down here in Texas, though, you don't have to have a license, so it's a little different. But up north, where I was originally building it, it's pretty rough. And we had labor unions and things like that. You had a lot of opposition? Pretty much everything. Every person you encounter was an opposition. They want to get something from you, you know, be it. I've had inspectors come to me and. And ask me to pay a car note, like, yeah, my car loan is due and you need this house passed. Like, wow, can we just do the inspection and make this, you know, make it the way it's supposed to be? So I ran into a lot of that, but it was a corrupt area. It was. It was very corrupt.

How much time do you spend today working in your business or on your business? Would you say you're working on your business? A little bit more, yeah.

So before the rush, before everything got. When the pricing increase went up a little while Back I worked on the business probably about four hours a day. I'm probably down to about two hours now. And it's a little different what I do. So I'll start my day as a project manager. Nobody knows I own the company. They believe that I'm just a project manager representing the company. And when I come home, I have to switch hats and then go through all my systems. So I do like a checklist. And the checklist is very high view and it shows me where, not necessarily where I failed it, but where my company failed that day. And I use that to build the business. So I'm working on the business pretty much from 6:00 clock until dinner time. So two or three hours a night, maybe two hours. I won't say three, two hours. So I'm in the business all day and I'm working on the business about two hours a day. But those systems, that's what helps me to keep everything in check. And it's not, it's not perfect, but it allows me to see where I'm weak at, where the business is weak. Then once I find that weak spot, I log right into apb. I can pick up a module and say, okay, I need training on this area right here. And I'll watch that module over and over and over. It just makes. And I didn't do that before I had apb. Once I got apb, I was able to like zone right in on my weaknesses and say, oh, there's a module for that. Oh, I suck at dealing with customers. There's a module for that. So it just made it very easy to do. I kind of look forward to doing it, actually. This is like a relief from the rest of the day.

Yeah, yeah. It breaks up your day a little bit. Before we talk about the APB and how you actually got, you know, got to know them. Tell me a little bit about the systems that you enjoy using or what are some of the systems that you're using. You talked about the fact that you're in the systems as well. What are some of the systems that you currently use that really help your, your business?

As far as Software, we use BuilderTrend. I was using CO construct for a while, but BuilderTrend just offered more. And it was, I, I believe personally it was easy to expand the company with buildertrend. So I have a purchasing department now. I have a legal team, I have accountants in there. And everybody is able to log in and see what's going on. So I love that. But like the first real business Tool I use as far as software was Google Keep. Believe it or not, that's what made me a star at Lennar. I use Google Keep and I would make these long checklists and I just made a template for the checklist and I could check off everything. So it gave me the consistency that I needed.

Right.

So yeah, Google keeps nice.

How did you come across the association of Professional Builders and what is your relationship with them today?

So I came across them. I believe it was a YouTube video. It was a video a long time ago. It's been a while back. I've been around for a little while and I didn't think that they could help me because they were in Australia. I was like, you know, what do they know about this? But then I did a little, you know, research and what we call research, watched a few videos, read a few reviews, and I came to the realization that construction is construction. Wherever you are. You got Ms. Johnson's in Australia, you got them in England, you got them in South Africa, you got them everywhere. So it made it easy. And then when I saw, when I saw the layout, like how they had it structured, it gave me so much more confidence in being a builder. Like when I went back out on my own, I was worried that I didn't have the structure. Honestly, working with APB gave me the confidence to implement the structure. I was like, okay, I know I'm doing this right now. I have an industry standard to look at to see if I'm correct or if I'm wrong. And if I think I'm wrong, I could pick up the phone and call someone. So, right. It was pretty much a no brainer.

And for our listeners out there, we also have. The APB also has coaches in the US too, as well. I've had Eric on the podcast before as well.

Yeah, that's my coach.

Yeah. Yeah. So Eric's from the US and we also have Clint in Canada as well for our Canadian friends. But what advice would you give other builders considering the association of Professional Builders? You talked a little bit about confidence. So obviously when you're going out, there's a lot of fears that you have to manage. What do you feel builders need to do to become successful and how do they, how do they approach the apb?

Well, to be successful, you got to stick to your plan. You cannot, you can't get into the job thinking that, oh, I can fix this down the road. You got to have everything worked out and planned out right away. Like Mike Tyson said, everybody's got a plan until I punch them in the face. And you get punched in the face every day in construction. You got to have that plan. And that's where APB comes in at. They solidify your plan. You know if your plan is correct or not. By talking to people like Eric and getting everything legitimately written out, finding your weaknesses, knowing where to focus your energy on, that's imperative to anybody. If you, if you want to make it an industry, you have to have a big brother to tell you what you should be doing, because you can't. It's like having a coach in a boxing ring, you know, you got to have that coach on the side telling you what to do. Because you're in the fight, you're just swinging. You don't really see what's going on. APB is that coach.

So what were some of the key struggles that you encountered in the building industry? Post licensing? You mentioned that you were in a pretty corrupt part of town. You had a lot of scenarios where people were looking for handouts after you got your licensing and, you know, you got into the industry. What were some of those key struggles in part of that growing the business process. And would you change anything today?

Well, I was very young. I was 23, 24. So it was being taken seriously. That was, that was a huge thing. So I did a whole lot of advertising. I got billboards, magazines. I had a $30,000 a month advertising budget in 2003, 2004. That was a lot back then. Now that's nothing. But that was a lot of money back then. I would say that the advertising, that form of advertising is no longer needed. You can, you can basically put yourself out there on social media, people like apb, situations like that, you can expose yourself. And what was the other part of the question?

Oh, the other part was, what were some of those key struggles that you had? And you mentioned a little bit about the advertising. And so I was just curious, how did you overcome those. Those key struggles?

Overcame them with the grit, with the tenacity. Just staying to my course. Even back then, I had a plan. Plan wasn't a good plan, but it was enough to keep me going. And that was. That was a struggle, just not giving up. You have to put all your energy into it. The moment you say, oh, I think I got this, I understand it, you're getting hit again. So you have to. That tenacity, it has to be in check all the time. You have to be like a rubber band.

Tenacity and elasticity. I'm going to use that question for you, about the $30,000 a month on advertising. You know, you mentioned that you were advertising that much. Did that. Was that effective at that time? Obviously, we're now in a digital era, but how did that work for you? Did that actually bring you any success?

I got one call from someone in Minnesota, and I was in Indiana, and I couldn't do the job. All that advertising, one call. Every home project that I got in Indiana came from them seeing a yard sign in front of the home. Those yard signs, those are magic. That's all I use now, really. We have a realtor that does our marketing for us. I use, basically, yard signs and a website, and they see the yard sign, and then they go to the website. Yard signs are king.

Wow.

And I have APB on my yard sign, too. I have the company name, and then I have APB at the bottom.

Oh, wow.

It gives me a lot of credentials. Yeah. A lot of validity. Yeah.

Excellent. That's. That's great to hear. That's actually the first builder I've heard that's actually used our yard sign, and it's generated quite a bit of traffic. How does the APB help you with your business? A building company today. How did it help you? So you've got a coach you mentioned, or you've worked with Eric as well. What was the big transformation for your business?

Taking advice from believing that the other person that you're talking to is correct and that you're wrong.

Wow.

That's the hardest part, because, like, my grandfather really was instrumental to me being raised, and he was. He was an old Portuguese contractor, a carpenter. I'm sorry. And when he said something, he was right, and that was it, and I adopted that. I'm right, you're wrong. So even if I kept it inside, I still felt that, okay, yeah, I'm gonna listen, but I know what I'm talking about. But when you get coaches that have been in the industry and they can relate to what you're talking about, coaches like Eric, you really have to just put that down and listen to what they're saying, because they know, again, they're your coach, you're in the fight. They can see what's going on. So it's very important to listen to those coaches and do what they're asking you to do and keep that tenacity in check. Keep it there.

So what are you planning for in the future? Obviously, we're going through uncertain times. We have been for a while, and the world's changing. What does Stacy do?

What are you Focusing on Stacy buys more land.

Okay, tell me a little bit about this.

I'm not believing in what they call the downturn. It's a business cycle. I've been through enough of them, so I understand what's going on. This is a buying opportunity. So we've just filled up our land portfolio with more land. We're doing two subdivisions right now. And I believe that these downturns are an opportunity to bring fresh buyers in. Because a lot of people sat on the sidelines and was like, I'm not going to buy right now. Price is too high. They still have the money. The interest rates are a small issue, but it's not that big of an issue. And you can always refinance. I did some day trading for 10 years, so I've been through the roller coasters. I see what, what happens. I don't fall for the, oh, we gotta, we gotta liquidate, we gotta do this. Nah. And actually, I didn't even raise my prices during the price surge we had. My prices have been the same all the way through. I just closed on that project I told you about. We could have gotten 20 more, but I didn't raise the price. We kept the pricing where it is. So I'm just gonna straight stay right in the middle there, keep buying land and keep, keep the stuff coming. Yeah.

So what do you think has been the contributing factor to your success? You know, you talked a little bit about your grandfather and your uncle playing a really big role in your upbringing. You talked a little bit about coaching. You talked a little bit about having grit. You look back now on your illustrious career and if you had to go with either a defining moment or something that's really helped contribute to your success, what would that be?

Defining moment. Well, so I was at a church revival. I didn't want to go. My mother in law made me go. We get there and it's a lady and she's preaching, she's an evangelist. They brought her in from a different area. She was from a couple states away. And she walks in and I was still a barber at the time, just straddling the fence. She's on stage, it's a crowd of people. She calls me out of the, out of the crowd, pulls me up there on stage and says, God wants you to be a builder. God wants you to build subdivisions. I'm like, okay, who told this lady what I was talking about yesterday? She didn't know me, I didn't know her. That right there, that was about six months after the dream I had about my grandfather. So those two things right there, I was like, okay, I don't have a choice. This is what I'm supposed to be doing. That was it for me. So. And that's what gives me my tenacity, is like, I can't quit. And I know it's going to be rough because when God tells you to do something, it's like the world comes against you. But that's what makes you keep fighting.

What should builders prepare for in the coming months and in the coming years? You've taken a strategic approach. You're looking at land, you're looking at all these different projects. But for the builders out there who are struggling or don't know what to do, what's your advice for them to prepare for the future?

Okay. It depends on the future they see. If they see the future where they're going to be slow, then stock up on materials, get a warehouse, start holding things. Don't throw away everything on the job site. We usually throw away about four or five thousand dollars worth of material at the end of a job. Now I'm stocking that stuff, and that's because I see a different future. If they see a future where it's going to keep going the way it is, then alternate your plan to work with that. Just stay adaptive, stay nimble. It's like. It's like a boxing match. I don't know why I keep going back to boxing. I don't box. But you have to duck and move. You got to keep moving, and that's the biggest thing. Don't get complacent thinking, oh, I'm a builder. This is what I build. This is the way I do it. I've done it like this for 20 years. Yeah, well, that doesn't work all the time. A lot of people go out of business because they cannot adapt. That's the biggest thing I would say.

Yeah. How do you get your leads? Today you talked a little bit about the yard signs, but do you get a lot of referrals? You talked a little bit about being called the honest guy. How do people find Stacy today and who wants to work with you?

So my realtor, he does most of the marketing. He takes. He does MLS shots and puts everything on mls. But those yard signs, they're golden. Some of the communities that I build in, they talk a lot. They'll say, hey, if you want a home built, you should go talk to this guy. So it's word of mouth, it's personality. The website is there, but the website, I believe the website comes into play after a person has already heard about us, they go to the website to verify. So your website, to me, is your verification tool. Your product is everything. And if you got a nice product sitting there and you have a nice reputation, I think you're golden. That that's the biggest thing.

Right. And how are you known in the industry? You talked a little bit about, you know, being known by certain communities as the honest guy. But for the companies that you've worked for or the bigger competitors out there, do they know you because of the product and service you put out there? How are you perceived by your fellow competitors?

You know, I don't know. I've met. We've had small conferences where 20 to 30 builders in my arena are involved. And I go to some conventions where there are larger builders. I like to keep the low profile and not really be the guy that everybody expects you to be when you're building. I don't know how they feel. I really don't know. That's a hard question to answer. I don't know. But actually, I don't care. That that's probably. That's golden because I'm not going to modify what our company is doing and what we stand for because somebody else thinks a certain way. I actually had a company come to me. They invited me to a golf outing, and they were like, we can buy. We can get all your materials for you real cheap. All you got to do is give us three grand and we'll take care of you, blah, blah. So I'm like, okay. And they showed me these papers showing big discounts, 20 discounts on lumber package pricing. So I said, okay, I'll do it. They called me back a couple days later and they're like, we need you to do a questionnaire. We have to do an investigation, and we need you to come down and ask you these questions. I'm like, what is this about? He said, we just want to verify that your company is who you say you are. And I stopped him right there. I said, no. I said, I'm not interested anymore. I said, the moment I have to prove myself to my own industry, I'm failing. So I'm not going to even start that. I proved myself to my buyers. That's the only crowd that I'm going to prove myself to. And I cut it loose. Found out later on that their product they was pushing, and I hope they're not affiliated, but it wasn't what it was supposed to be anyway. It was a bunch of marketing, and they Prey on builders that are trying to save a dollar.

Right, right, right, right. So when you look at the industry, I mean, I could talk to you for ages. But I'll ask you my final question. It's been great getting to know you a little bit. But you know, where do you feel the building industry is going and what is it evolving to? If you think about the future, what do you think of the future of the industry that you're in?

The industry as a whole is still stuck in the past. There's a lot of technologies that we have not adapted to that are starting to come out. Like the 3D printing right now. 3D printing has a bad rap in this area does. And I actually just saw article that said it's a Texas builder, I think from Austin, Texas. He just got a 57 million dollar contract do 3D homes on the moon. On the moon. So I'm like this, this can't be real. But a news station picked it up. So things like that. If we, if we are looking down the road and we see we can adapt things to construction that will allow facilitate building on the moon. That really shows me that this industry is prehistoric. If we're already looking at building on the moon, we're still doing things the same way we did. Only upgrades we have is because of a code change. That's horrible. So I'd like to see, I'd like to see new materials. I'd like to see fireproof lumber. I'd like to see steel beams that don't give way if you have a fire. I've tried mixing of materials to keep homes to make them safer. And I would like to see more safety in a home. If a hurricane comes or tornado comes, we shouldn't see a whole block devastated. We have come too far. You can be in a two seater econo box doing 60 miles an hour, have a crash and walk away. Why do you sit in your home and worry about a tornado coming? You shouldn't have to. Our products, our technology needs to change.

Stacy, do you see parks at happily custom homes on the moon in the future anytime soon? Or is that, is that an aspiration for the future?

No, I don't, I don't, I don't aspire to be there. Not at all. No, no. That was my first question. Like, okay, if we get the job on the moon, where do you put the porta potty? You know, how can I get a porta potty out there?

I'm just thinking, I'm just thinking of the Dallas Cowboys are going to be playing on the moon anytime soon because it'd be a boring Sunday without any NFL football. Right on Sunday.

That's right.

Well, listen, my man, it's been great having you. Great getting to know a little bit about you. The next time you talk to Eric, tell him I say hi. And thanks for being here. We really appreciate your insights, your story, and going back to that grit mindset as well. I'm wishing you all the best in your success as well as a builder in the future.

Thank you, sir. Talk to you soon.

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