75. The SORCI 2023 Report Insights With Russ Sky & Andy

This is actually one of the biggest projects we have to do every year.

In this year's report, over 1,000 building companies took part.

You can actually see if you're above standard, if you're in the majority or the minority.

Things like marketing and advertising have definitely suffered. And what that's going to create is a hole in their construction scheduling. Down the line, you know, we can.

Be quite insular, right? We can always start thinking, I think it's just me, that my area is different or it's, you know, this is what it's like in Australia. And what proves time and time again.

It'S actually not, not what you know you don't know that hurts you. It's what you don't know that you don't know that's what really hurts you.

This is Professional Builder Secrets, the number one podcast to help you grow your building company safely and securely, brought to you by the association of Professional Builders. Join us every week as we talk to industry experts and your fellow professional builders on everything you to know to generate more leads, more sales and higher margins while improving the building experience for your clients. Hello and welcome to the Professional Builder Secrets podcast, a podcast by the association of Professional Builders for building company owners, general managers, VPs and emerging leaders. Here we discuss all things running a professional building company from sales, processes, financials, operations and marketing. Joining us today is Sky Stevens, co founder for the association of Professional Builders. Lovely to have you, Sky.

Thanks, Bosco. How you doing?

Doing well, Russ Stevens, co founder for the association of Professional Builders as well. Great to have you again, Russ.

Good to see you, Busco.

And my main man, Andy Scarta, head coach for the association of Professional Builders. Thank you for joining us today as well.

You're very welcome, Busco. I didn't have anything else planned.

I look forward to having you all on another exciting conversation and this time we're going to be talking about the SOURCEI Report. And for our new listeners out, what is the SOURCEI Report?

Well, it's a very comprehensive survey of the industry where data is collected from the owners and directors of residential building companies in Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the United States. And when I say comprehensive, these builders, or I should probably say businessmen, they answer over a hundred questions regarding marketing, advertising, sales, process, construction, financials, operations and of course, their team. So that is a big commitment and it does take a lot of time on their behalf. And in this year's report, over 1,000 building companies took part, thanks to our industry partners, which include software companies like buildertrend, buildxact, and Builder Price, as well as other industry giants such as Pro Builder magazine in the us and once we collect the data, we then analyze it in a number of different ways in order to compile an annual report which is then shared with the industry.

Now, Russ, this sounds like a mammoth project, and every year it seems to be getting bigger and bigger and more insights are collected. What went into this year's production of the source of the report.

I mean, look, with everything, each new version, anything we do here at apb, every new version, every new release, anything new that we do, it has to be better than the last. That's our main criteria. So we always need to beat what we have previously. And like you said, this is actually one of the biggest projects we have to do every year. It might give some team members a little bit of PTSD because it is that huge, it takes so much. So if I can break it down, what we do is we. We have a period where the survey is open. And so like Russ has just mentioned, we've got over a thousand builders that go in and complete this survey and all of the preparation that it takes to even open up this survey. Like, we look at everything we did last year, as we're even building last year's report, going through that survey, we are constantly have having all of these notes back and forth of what we need to change, what we should update next year. What would be better? How's it being received? Are people asking questions? Are there any gray areas that maybe we should add more questions to? So that's sort of like a constant work in progress. But then we go into all of this work to actually set up the survey and this is like how we can actually launch. Okay, how can we get as many professional builders in the industry as possible to take and complete this survey? Because it's not short, as Ross has mentioned, it's comprehensive. There's a lot of questions here. It doesn't take two minutes. Tick and flick. These are quite a few questions that you can go in and answer for your building company so that actually can create a comprehensive report. So stage one is the survey, and that can stay open for a few months while we collate our responses. But we have a very hard survey closing time because as soon as that survey is closed and we are not taking any more responses, that is where the real work internally starts. Because we have to do so much data cleansing. We need to validate every bit of data so that there's no rubbish answers in there. If we've asked profile questions at the beginning to understand their building company and how big they are in terms of projects. We want to validate that later on based on the other answers that they've given us so that every bit of data is accurate. So there's a lot of cleansing that goes into it. And essentially then we're able to create reports and graphs. We can compare different countries based on different questions. And then internally it's a whole review and we need to write a commentary because we can have all of these bits of data. But I think that's really useless to a lot of builders just to read reports and read numbers. I think the value that comes out of sourcing every single year is the commentary behind it. So that's a whole big process of getting the writing done, actually making valid and interesting and thoughtful commentary on what we're seeing in those numbers and we're asking more questions. Okay, so what's the subset of this group doing? Okay, and this, this is how we were able to establish that margins are linked to marketing. It really is where we can get all of that information.

And I think we should say a special shout out to one of our team members, Peter, at this point, because when sky talks about data cleansing, Peter is fanatical about the data being accurate, which makes this report so valuable. And the lengths that she goes to to ensure that is just phenomenal.

100%. That's what I mean by PTSD as well. So it's a huge initiative with the survey and then of course the report. But then what also goes into this behind the scene is how many sponsors we have and the amount of sponsors we've had for our sourcing report has grown year on year on year. So we're partnering with companies like BuilderTrend, like CB USA, to bring this report to as many buildings companies as possible throughout all these different countries that there's a lot more effort that goes into partnering with our partners to get this report out there. So they're also getting their builders to complete this survey, actually read and understand the findings inside this report. So it's not really just internal anymore because it's involving so many stakeholders to make it as valuable as possible for the industry.

It's amazing because it sounds like there's so many moving pieces that are happening all at the same time to get this piece of information out to the builders out there. I'm just curious, are builders making data driven decisions today? And is the source report a great way to validate those data decision making choices?

All right, Bosco, strap yourself in Here we go. My favorite mantra words create worlds. Builders probably not. Professional builders improving. That would be the distinction that I would make that we are finding professional builders are not only making data driven decisions generally, but they are finding things like the Sourci report incredibly helpful in terms of seeing how they fit into the overall picture globally, nationally, etc. Etc. So there's certainly amongst the professional builder population a far greater emphasis now being placed on data and accurate up to date data. Not just kind of thumb suck and hope, but getting the real numbers and then making decisions based on that. It's definitely improving.

Okay, now let's get into the report itself and the findings around it. What was the biggest find in this year's report? Without trying to give away too much, what was the biggest find and if anything, was there anything there that surprised you from the survey?

One of the biggest things to come out of the 2022 data was that 58% of job were actually completed on time. And I think that is an extraordinary achievement by the industry given all the challenges that were put in front of builders throughout the year with these supply chain issues, lockdowns, labor shortages, it's incredible challenges that they faced and yet the majority of projects were still finished on time. Extraordinary, extraordinary tenacity being shown by builders there. But another thing that I guess maybe surprised us a little bit was that the number one challenge in terms of marketing for builders was generating quality leads. It's been that way for a number of years, but the number one challenge in terms of sales was dealing with quality leads. And although those two things in themselves weren't a major surprise, what was a surprise was that 60% of builders didn't email their database at all during 2022 and 68% didn't create a single blog post. And social media activity was actually down in 2022 compared to 2021. So I think all those things are understandable when you look at the challenges builders face during the year, the amount of time they had to spend rescheduling jobs time and time again to account for these delays and these no shows on site. It's understandable that the marketing took a back seat, especially when sales were quite easy to come by. However, what is surprising is that quality leads was then mentioned as the number one challenge in both marketing and sales, and these things that lead to quality leads weren't being done. So I guess it's good in a way because the number one challenge that builders are facing can easily, easily be solved. It's quite a straightforward process to solve that. But yeah, that was probably the most interesting and surprising thing that come out of the data.

And what are some of the key areas of focus from the builders surveyed and from all the partners out there? What are we preparing for and what are they focusing on in the future?

Well, we've got over a hundred questions. So I think what's the most interesting about Sourci is a lot if not all. All builders have a focus, right? You're thinking I need to focus on my sales or my marketing or this is a certain challeng and you sort of think you know where a lot of the problem is. And really, if you were to ask, that's all they would talk about. But what's amazing with Sourci is that we get to survey our builders or any builder who takes the survey on all of the different areas of the building company. So we go from sales to marketing, their whole company profile to advertising, projects, technology, financials, planning team, even training. And so that you can actually get a very holistic view of your building company, but then your building company compared to other other building companies. And that's where you can actually see where is the trend. Is the whole industry struggling with this or that? Is it marketing? Is it generating quality leads like Russ just mentioned? You can actually see where do you sit within the rest of the industry that have taken the survey. And I think that is what makes sourcey so valuable because you get to go through everything yourself and then you get to see where everyone else is sitting and then you get to break it down by country so then you can establish, okay, is this just an Australia thing, a Canada thing? And I think we, you know, we can be quite insular, right? We can always start thinking, I think it's just me, that my area is different or it's, this is what it's like in Australia or this is what it's like in New Zealand or wherever. And what proves time and time again is actually not. And so it's an anomaly, it's an exception to the rule when you see certain countries spike with a particular problem. And that's where our commentary comes in. So I think that's what makes it really cool. You can see everything and then you can really spot the outliers in this whole report.

I think at this point we should give a big shout out for Canadian builders who really did lead the way in a lot of the data in terms what they're doing in terms of marketing, advertising and sales process and technology, they really are head and shoulders above the U.S. australia and New Zealand.

And I think this goes back to what we were talking about before. Like, what goes into this? We're constantly trying to improve it. And while we're surveying multiple different countries, builders in multiple different countries on all of these topics, we've added some new questions in the 2022 survey ready for the 2023 report. We had new questions about how has your mental been in 2022 compared to last year. We brought in a question like, is your carpentry work completed by subcontractors or in house employees? Because it will enable us to write a better commentary based on those previous years. So that's why the reports are just getting more and more refined and we can really pick into how a different country is operating. Why is it different? Why could they potentially be doing better? Because we're just getting more and more data and we're getting more answers.

What are some of the biggest hurdles that builders will need to overcome for a sustainable future? Looking at this report, that's a little.

Bit of a how long is the piece of string question? Because I don't think that it necessarily gave us any new problems that we didn't know existed in the industry. What the report has done for us, though, has given us some ways of quantifying that year on year to see is it getting better, is it getting worse. Russ has already touched on the fact that because of the pressure on builders last year to. To get through the work that was in front of them, things like marketing and advertising have definitely suffered. And what that's going to create is a hole in their construction scheduling down the line when they get to the end of all the current work. So that's going to be something they're going to need to look at. I was quite interested to see that only 50% of builders actually have a documented sales process. I always say to our clients, when they say I don't have a sales process, I ask them whether they're married and if they're married, then they have a sales process. There's no question that they have a sales process. Well, if they still married, maybe that's a better way of putting it. So the point here being in a lot of cases, the emphasis needs to go on the word documented. In other words, have they proven a system that works and then they're going to keep repeating those things that work. So sales, obviously on the back of that marketing, once that marketing activity starts to pick up again, that's obviously going to expose any sort of shortcomings that they've got in that area, I think Russa said operations generally were great and the fact that such a high percentage of jobs was delivered on time was really fantastic. But what Russ didn't mention was that we've got just under 40% of the jobs that were delivered were over budget. And that means that builders have had their margins eroded by really having to take the bullet in a lot of cases for circumstances that were completely beyond their control. So there's going to be some work need to be done there in order to recover those kind of jobs. It's not that there's really anything new in there, but what's happened from what we can see is that the focus on where builders are going to, professional builders again are going to have to put their attention to get back to where they want to be, has now been highlighted very much in that marketing, selling and then making sure that margins come back to where they need to be so that builders can grow safely and securely.

For the builders that are busy and time poor and have all these different obligations, what's the incentive for those builders that take part to give up their time and take, take part in this survey? What can they expect from this process?

Yeah, I think that's a question we asked ourselves before we launched the very first survey three years ago. Why will builders actually invest all this time? Because we were asking them a lot of questions. But I think the, the answer has really jumped out to us quite quickly and, and been very apparent. It's effectively a self diagnostic tool and a very, very, a very powerful self diagnostic tool as well. And as Andy always says to us, it's not what you know you don't know that hurts you, it's what you don't know that you don't know that's what really hurts you. And these questions that we ask, they are thought provoking and they lead to a lot of self improvement. So I think it's incredibly beneficial for every single builder that has ever taken part in one of these annual surveys because these questions would trigger a thought process about their own business. And of course it's something that you can do every year because your business moves on. So you do this self diagnostic, it generates ideas as to where the gaps might be in your business, in your building company and you work on those and then you revisit the next year and you find there's an extra couple of questions that provoke even more thought. That would be the incentive for builders and it's why I would urge builders to be putting it on their calendar for 2023 for when we start collating the 20 data.

It sounds like a business assessment, too, as well, from what you're saying, Russ, that they're also assessing what they're doing in their own business, too.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it really does. It highlights the gaps. Yeah. That they didn't know existed.

I think that's why we've got so many participants as well, because it's not a survey that's just looking for good news. Like, we're trying to get data from all kinds of building companies. We'll scrub the data. If they're too small, we don't publish them in the report. Like, we have a criteria for whose data we publish. So it's very specific to a particular niche of building company owners. You're a custom home builder, you're a modeler, you're doing over a million dollars in revenue. These are all criteria so that you're looking at building companies of a similar caliber. But this is what makes the report valuable, because if you're only sharing and doing a survey when you can tick all the boxes and everything's good, that report is completely worthless. This is a real survey of every building company as it stands in the industry that year. And so as it gets bigger and bigger, you've got more data to work with and you're going to trends and where the average is and where it's all sitting, but it's actually going to be reflecting reality, which I think is so important.

Yeah. Keeping it niched is, like sky says, what makes it valuable. Because if you had a commercial builder doing 100 million, had their data thrown in there, it's absolutely meaningless. And it is why we. We do clean the data. And obviously we have a lot of different tests in place that help us to identify data that isn't really part of what we're looking to achieve here.

Now, speaking of data, how can builders use the report as a benchmarking framework?

Well, I think it's when you actually get to downloading the report. So if you were to download the 2023 Sourcy Report, and we'll just keep calling it Sourci, that's where you'll actually be able to see there's the commentary. So every new section that I just mentioned, whether it's sales or advertising or team or planning, each section starts with the commentary. So it's a small bit of writing that actually summarizes the next few stats that you're to see, and it pulls out for you the most groundbreaking stats. And sometimes in the commentary as well, we compare it to, well, what did that question have as an answer for last year, you know, in the last year's report? How does that compare? Is the industry improving? Is it going backward? So each of those sections starts with the commentary and then you get the questions that were actually asked and you can see the breakdown between who answered yes, who answered no. But then on some of those questions you also get tables and we break down those answers of what percentage of builders voted yes were in Australia, how many were in the United States, how many were in Canada. And so you've got a few different layers of benchmarking, right? You can read the commentary and see where the industry is going and what's been said. You get to go through each individual question, you knowing what you would answer. Do you have a documented sales process? It's yes or no. There is an I don't know there if you're not quite privy to that information. But it's yes or no to that question. And you know, do you fall in the yes camp or the no camp? So you get to see where you fit. But then below that you can see, well, you know what, I'm in Canada. How many builders in Canada said yes? Oh, it was only X amount or it was this amount. And you can actually see if you're above standard, if you're in the majority or the minority. And I think that's really cool when you get to break it down by country because let's be honest, there are are more reports. There are reports, of course, in an industry, but they're all country specific. The ability where you get to see how do I compare to that builder across the pond, that's incredible. That's the value as well.

There was a lot of times the data is quite similar country to country, but we do get a few exceptions. And one of them that really jumped out was cost escalation clauses. Two thirds of builders in the US have cost escalation clauses included in their contracts, but on Australia it was less than a third. We didn't ask that question 12 months ago, but I'm sure that figure was massively up from what it would have been had we asked it 12 months earlier. But it's all good intel and good data to compare to, see that I'm not the only one that's putting cost escalation clauses in my contracts.

And this is where you can see like the report is maturing year on year on year with where the trends and themes are going in the whole industry. This was a huge topic. So we, we had to put it into the survey to ask, it's almost like prove the point. Well, if this is standard over here, but it's not over here. And on the other side, if it's not standard, these are all the problems that are getting caused. Well, okay, let's try and analyze that a little bit more.

And I'm just curious, you talked about the industry. Is the industry evolving? Is it maturing? Because when you look at the report, you talk a little bit about coming up with narratives and that's where the interest is, that storytelling of the data. Otherwise, you know, the data would just be boring on its own. I'm curious, what are some of the behaviors revealed of the builders you interviewed from this report and what have you learned about them as well?

Well, I obviously in the space that I work with our private and our elite mentoring clients, we spend a lot of time around things like planning, for example. So I was very interested to see that those stats are improving, that professional builders worldwide, they're not yet taking enough time to plan, but that sort of thing is definitely improving. So a lot of stuff around their recruiting, their team building kind of, you can see that there is a growing understanding of surrounding myself with quality people who I don't rush to hire, but I put them through a process that means they are the right people in the right seat on the bus, the bus is going to the right place. That sort of behavior definitely seems to have improved. There's some of the normal other issues out there. I was surprised to find how many people are still doing free quotes. When we look at it again from a professional perspective, there isn't a doctor in the world, There certainly isn't a surgeon in the world that'll see you for free and operate for free. It's not going to happen. There's still some work to be done in that area. It's really around building the rest of the business. Russ made the point at the beginning of this discussion that we're really talking about businessmen here. Although they happen to own building businesses. The behaviors where we starting to see the pickup is in those, those non construction things in the financials, in the recruiting, in the planning, those kind of things is really where we're seeing the behavior changing, which is wonderful to see. Very, very positive for the industry.

It's good to see all aspects improving across the board year on year. And now we're in our third year. We can see that more guys have a sales process, more guys have an org chart for their business and job descriptions. They have more guys have project management software, which is how they've been able to deal with all these challenges. It's fantastic to see. An interesting thing I heard at the International Builders show in Vegas recently was that the construction industry lags behind all other industries in terms of the adoption of technology. Yeah. Which is a little bit concerning, but apparently it's right down there at the. The bottom. And the. As if to really force home the point, they said we're even below agriculture. I do feel when I look at this report and the way I see adoption and the way I see everything improving, I. I feel we are catching the farmers up and, and we're going to overtake them pretty soon.

It sounds really wonderful.

Yeah, yeah. A wonderful analogy. We nearly as technologically advanced as the farmers. Nearly. That's. That's wonderful.

But it also speaks to the credit to the APB's work as well. I mean, a lot of the systems, and I know enough from the podcast episodes that there's a lot of implementation that's come from the last three years. So the fact that there's an improvement in numbers also speaks to the efforts and the vision that you've all had in mind in the last few years as well.

I think we'd like to take the credit, wouldn't we? But really it's the members. The members have got to take the credit. They're the ones doing the work and doing the implementation 100%.

But you know, even to clarify, the builders who take the survey, they're not all members. So you really are getting a deep dive into the whole industry, which, you know, whether you say that's good or bad, we'd love them all to be members. But it's not exclusive for members to complete. So, yeah, a lot of members do complete this survey and provide information, but it's so many other building company owners as well that take part. So you're really getting a good overview of the whole industry. It's not locked, it's not exclusive.

Yeah, no, there's no nepotism in this. It's honestly is a global broad survey of building companies, full stop. Which is. Which I think is part of that. Plus the fact that we're in year three now. We've kind of touched on the wonderful trends that we can start to see because it's not just, gee, that's interesting. It's how does that compare to last year and how does that compare country to country? That's what's starting to come out of it. So it's really, really exciting in terms of where it's going.

I mean, just wait till we get 10 years on and then you get to compare our first report to our 10th report and you really get to see, really, that was a problem back then, like having this all documented because we summarize the year that was as well. And so it's going to be so easy to forget. What were the problems of 2022? You know, what were the problems of 2023? Like, it's all there in writing and you got a beautiful catalog of how the industry has gone.

For the record, I did document the year I lost my hair, but that's a whole different personal problem.

And I think we just proved that we nerds, guy. I think we've just blurted it out. Now. The whole world now knows that this is the stuff that gets us goose pimply wait.

The whole world doesn't keep a spreadsheet and documents their life year on year and see how it's improving.

Apparently not. It's only us.

How. How is the APB planning for the future based on the findings of this year's report? What did you look at this year in the report and said we should plan for that or we should do something for that particular. Particular.

I think sky already mentioned we're always adding more questions based on what's actually happening in the world and in the industry and removing some others and even rephrasing some as well. Because when the data comes back, the most powerful thing I think about the data is cross referencing it with other parts of data. Yeah, it's how we've been able to prove that margins are linked to marketing. For instance, we've been able to prove that the company's at that spend more money advertising, do enjoy the highest net margins, not just gross, but net. And finding better ways to really represent that data can come from rephrasing questions and times change and different questions need to be asked. And I think it was mentioned as well earlier about mental health. Staggering that 22% of builders said their mental health had deteriorated in 2022, which is very, very, very concerning. And that is information that needs to be acted on. And obviously with APB chapters, that's exactly what we're doing. I think another thing that we went a little bit deeper on this year was the work in progress calculation where this year 50% of builders said they did not know how to do this calculation. And that's fair. Nothing surprising there. But the bigger concern was that 50% said they did know how to calculate it. But then when we tested them on how they were actually calculating work in progress, 80% got it wrong. So that's a bigger concern, isn't it? It's the ones that think they understand it, that maybe, well, not maybe in the data, they are doing it wrong. And that represents 90% of construction financial reports being incorrect. That's something we've got to do our utmost to address this year. It's something we are working on, trying to raise it with the authorities to get this fixed up, because unprofitable building companies are proving a danger to the professionally run, profitable building companies and providing unfair competition from as well. And that's something we really want to address.

Has the vision for the report changed or evolved in the last three years?

I'll give you my answer and then everyone else can jump in. But I don't know about everyone else, but I think we're maybe dreamers at heart. And so when we wanted to do sourcy, it was always going to be big. Like it's not as big as we want it to be right now. Like, we envision this to be huge. This is the survey, this is the report that every professional building company owner reads every single year. Like, that is the vision. So to me, I would say no, it hasn't changed in that respect. If anything, like where it is right now, we need to make it bigger and bigger and bigger and literally involve as much of the industry as possible to actually take this survey so we can publish a report. So it's really penetrating every single building company. What I will say though, and I think this is from my perspective and by all means you guys dive on in. Has the vision for the report changed or evolved? Probably more so, in terms like it's actually a resource for all of our industry partners. I think we're very, very much always focused on how does this benefit and help our builders and the builders in the industry and professional builders, most importantly. But I think over the last couple of years of doing this, especially having our preferred partners and of course our sponsors for sourcing year on year on year, it's really obvious. It's like sort of slaps you in the face now that this is such a huge resource for industry partners, partners, they're able to help their own clients tenfold with the information in this report. Because again, it's data, you just get to back up, you know, why you need systems and software and outsourcing and higher margins and everything. So I think maybe I underestimated personally, you guys dive in how much of an industry resource it could be. For not just the builders but all the industry partners as well.

Yeah, I think you summed it up beautifully there, Sky. I think it surprised us all just how well received it has been by the industry. And even now sharing with, you know, we've had so many new partners coming on board and sharing last year's report with them. The excitement they're showing after receiving the report has been fantastic and I think it's very beneficial for them. Obviously we've been analyzing software for a few years now, but for this year's survey we brought on a new partner, HazardCo, a very big in New Zealand and quite large in Australia and getting bigger all the time. Time. And because of that we asked a couple of questions regarding workplace health and safety as to how many companies have got a system in place. And that really did throw up some eye openers there that I think has been very useful to to the partners because although New Zealand seems to lead the way or the builders in New Zealand lead the way with using a system and Australia not too far behind, it's very much lagging in North America, particularly in the US And I think part of that is because of a lack of a solution in the US for builders, which really does show the opportunity there for the safety software companies currently based in Australia and New Zealand. There's a huge opportunity for those guys to really expand in North America.

You asked has the vision changed? I don't think our vision has changed, but I think that what we're learning is is there are so many other facets to how this data can be used. And everything that Russ and Sky have touched on is really saying, I won't pretend that when we first started talking about there was some we wanted to know, so there was some self interest in it. But I think where it's getting to now is it's starting to become a major force in terms of improving the industry as a whole, which of course is part of why we exist. So this is really another other string in the bow that I think is going to help us even focus the solutions that we offer to the kind of problems that builders are expressing and really put us in that proactive space which is great for the industry as a whole.

Speaking of usage, how should builders, or especially builders who've not come across this report before, how should they be reading or looking at the data and using this report for their business out there?

I mean, Scar said it already, it's the most fantastic benchmarking tool people they're ever going to get their hands on. It's a wonderful way in which to measure how do I compare globally, nationally, by state, by the part of the industry that I work in. And really we, depending on how you want to look at this, benchmarks are sometimes setting the minimum standard, in which case, well, if I'm not yet achieving the minimum, I better get my A into G and at least be hitting the minimum standard and then obviously grow from that into the rest. So it's a wonderful planning process tool in terms of a builder being able to plot themselves relative to the rest of the industry.

My final question to you all is where can our listeners get access to this report? Where can they find it?

If you head to the ABB website. But you know what? Even easier, we'll pop it in the show notes here. You can get an instant download of the PDF of literally all of the answers of over a thousand builders that took part in the 2022 survey to get published in the 2023 report. You can can get all of that information, all the answers, all the commentary, everything in a download as a PDF. And we'll pop the link in the show notes here. It'll be all over our website as well. But I think it would be a really good opportunity just to make a special shout out and mention to all of our sponsors that made the 2023 Sourcei report possible. We had Pro Builder magazine come on board, build a trend, CB USA build exact, build a lead converter, HazardCo builder price and builder nuggets. And without our spons we wouldn't be able to keep producing reports like this and get this information out into the industry. So a huge shout out for those guys.

And also worth mentioning as well that when we initially launched the State of the Residential Construction Industry Report, we actually sold this for a couple of hundred dollars. Now we give away the PDF free of charge, but there is an opportunity to obtain a hard copy free of charge as well. All we ask is that you cover the postage and packaging. So that's an opportunity. There is a limited amount available, but that is an opportunity. When you download the free PDF you'll get the opportunity to, if there's any left, to grab a hard copy free.

Of charge as well, which I would recommend doing. These are beautifully printed, beautifully presented and they are so good. I think I underestimated, like, you know, when you get physical things anymore, you're like, oh, we're all online, we don't need that. But we all have a copy of every year's Saucy that we have and you just have it on your desk and you just end up referring to it like what is standard here? Or what is normal? You just pick it up and you just go and read it. And it's such an awesome resource. So if, if you can and you have that opportunity, definitely try and get your hands on the physical copy. You'll be surprised how much you reference it.

While we're doing shout outs, I'm going to throw one in as well. Everybody that completed the survey, we really do appreciate it. Without that data, we we wouldn't have anything to report on. Thanks guys. See you all again next year.

Well, Russ, Andy, sky, that concludes our conversation today. I look forward to having many more with you guys, but thank you so much for your time and I look forward to diving a little bit deeper into this year's Socio report.

Love it.

Thanks. Thanks so much, Bosco.

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