78. Transforming A Building Company Overnight With Keiron Moore

I just didn't want to be one of those builders that was tied to the desk, you know, more than eight hours a day. Always considered myself a bit of a numbers guy, but I soon learnt that I wasn't across my numbers as much as I should have been. I was definitely naive, you know, thinking as long as there's money in the bank account, we're doing okay. Right. I wanted to grow the business, but not in a way where I had to be doing everything. My own money aim is to be able to step back from the day to day running of the business, you know, and focus more on the business as a whole. You know, that's something that the APB has definitely taught me.

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We've got another exciting episode from the Professional Builder Secrets podcast. Joining us today is Karen Moore, managing director and owner from CKS Projects Australia. Karen, welcome to the show.

Yeah, hi, Bosco, thanks for having me today. I'm really excited to chat with you.

We're excited to have you as well, my friend. So tell us a little bit about how did you get started and your journey as a builder and what does CKs specialize in? I'm throwing you three questions all in one go.

That's okay, that's okay. So, yeah, look, we're a small boutique custom home building company here in the Illawarra region, which is on the New South Wales south coast. We have a staff of seven people, including myself. So I think the second question you asked was how did we get started on our journey? Yeah, well, Bosco, going right back to high school, I love woodwork and making things with my hands. I remember in the school holidays I used to go work with my cousin who had a commercial building business doing commercial fit outs, mainly large leagues clubs and that kind of thing. Yep. And I would just basically tag along laboring and do what I could to help. Probably just getting in their way. Looking back now, but you know, I really enjoyed being in that building environment. So from there, when I was old enough, they offered me apprenticeship which I was lucky enough and I completed the comprentorship. Working on commercial building sites, mainly doing.

It sounds like you've been in the space for a while and it sounds like you Organically just fell in love with this particular career.

Yeah, that's true, that's true. I have been around for a while, probably been in the industry I think going on the 27th or 28th year now.

Right.

And yeah, still love it.

When did you decide to start your own building company and you know, tell me a little bit about your mindset going into this, you know, new daunting adventure where you're no longer working for someone and you're doing it for yourself. You know, what did it take for you to take that next step?

Yeah, I guess in my senior years being an apprentice working in those large commercial sites, I was constantly around with, working with bigger builders. I was around site foremans all the time and dealing with site managers and I remember just looking at them when I was younger going, wow, you know, I want to be that guy, I want to be, I want to be that guy on site. So yeah, I guess, I guess from that really entrenched in me that you know, I wanted to get into, you know, running my own business one day and then I guess I just set the task going forward. I finished my trade and I went on to do my builder's license course and also a diploma in project management.

Okay.

And from there that sort of led me into more management side of on commercial building sites. So I got to start as like a sub foreman which is I guess the, which is one step under running the site. And then as the years progressed and I got the opportunity to become a foreman and then I moved on to more high level management as, as a project manager and I did that for 10 years and that really sort of gave me the experience to see, you know, how, how a larger building company operates. And you know, I really enjoyed that for, for quite, for about a decade I was doing that. But I think the time came, I think I was starting to get a bit bored Bosco and I knew I had to venture out and start my own journey. And that's where CKS Projects was, was born. When I started the building company it was me and my father in law and actually my brother in law was involved as well. And we're just doing small townhouse developments and sort of spec building for ourself. That was around in 2014 and I guess working on these types of buildings and I was working on waterfront and high exposure sites. I started to get clients or people just coming past and you know, asking me if I could quote, you know, quote on their home that they're looking at starting. And that's really where the company sort of took off. And that was around 2016.

So tell me a little bit about, you know, your ambitions with your building business and perhaps we'll, we'll cover the era before you met the apb. What were some of those ambitions and, you know, what are your ambitions today as far as, you know, your building business as well?

Well, I guess a very sort of all or nothing kind of guy Bosco. And you could say I was probably too ambitious with thinking I could build everything at the start. So coming from that commercial background and then starting a residential building company, I guess I was at the start I thought I could do it, I could do it all. You know, I could, I could build a commercial building, I could do industrial buildings, I could do residential. So I was very ambitious when I was young and or younger in my business years.

Yep, you said you were very ambitious. You, you wanted to take on more projects. Tell me a little bit, at what point did you realize that you needed to have some structure? You know, was it the fact that there was just, you know, a lot going on at the same time? Did you just, you know, bite off more than you could chew?

Yeah, really, it for me, what it was, I just didn't want to be one of those builder builders that was tied to the desk, you know, more than eight hours a day, you know, working during the day, coming home, quoting at night. You know, it's all too common with builders these days. That's, that's just how they run their business. Particularly with small builders. You know, they're on the tools during the day and, you know, coming home and spending their nights quoting and doing the management side of things. So, you know, that not wanting to do that, having a young family, I knew that just wasn't going to work for my lifestyle. I definitely wanted to have a good work life balance. So, you know, that was sort of the real awakening for me that I knew that I wanted change and wanted to do things different. I guess I started researching and looking at ways I can improve myself or improve the business.

So tell me, how did you discover the association of Professional Builders? Was it at a critical stage in your business career? What were you looking for at the time?

It was around March last year. You know, we'd just been through, I guess what we thought the worst was Covid and I was at a stage where I wanted to, I wanted to grow the business, but not in a way where I had to be doing everything, you know, wearing all the hats, as they say. So as we all do, I Started googling and you know, to try and find the answer. And I, I came across some advertising for the apb and at first I sat in the background just following their social media and, and email campaigns for a few months. Yeah. Then I saw a familiar name of a person that was a member of the APB and I started researching and seeing what success they were having. And I think that was for me, that was the catalyst. You know, I thought, okay, I'll take that leap and, and join the APB and never look back.

And what's it been like working with the apb? What have you noticed about yourself and your business as well in the, in the time that you start working with them?

Oh, look, it's been great. It's definitely been a real eye opener. As I said before, me being an all or nothing kind of guy, you know, once I became a member and then I heard they had a private mentoring program, I knew this was the right choice. Yeah. As I needed, I needed some accountability to follow their programs and their systems. So, you know, I, like I said, all or nothing. So I joined the APB and then I also joined their private mentoring program and that was a real game changer for me. I'm a very pretty, impatient person. Naturally my wife will tell me anyway, so I just wanted to make sure that if I was going to go down this path, I wanted to do it right the first time.

So tell us, it sounds like you've transformed your business working with the association of Professional Builders. Tell us a little bit about how you may have transformed your business since you started working with them.

I feel like we've transformed a lot in such a small or short time period. So prior to the apb we didn't have really, we had no marketing at all. Zero. So now we have a marketing strategy creating social media. We've got Instagram, Facebook, website, LinkedIn accounts. We even have our own YouTube channel now where I do monthly video blogs. So yeah, this was all very fine to me. I wasn't a very sort of tech savvy kind of guy, you know, more from the school of hard knocks. You know, when I did my apprenticeship there was no such thing as a mobile phone or you know, the Internet was very, very new, so social media didn't exist. So that itself has really transformed the business. Just prior to the apb we didn't have any of those things. So that's been a game changer for us for sure. Just getting our brand out there. And, and I guess also equally important is, you know, financially we have a clearer path forward on what gross profit and what net margins we should be. You know, we have better financial reporting every month by doing our WIPA and, and knowing our current liabilities every month and revenue forecasting and particularly watching our overhead costs to make sure they're in line with the revenue. I didn't know any of the, any of these, this information prior the atb, so at the apb, so it's, there have been massive, massive changes and we've also developed company vision statement and some core values. So that's, that's also been very important for us moving forward.

Sounds like you've really transformed your building company overnight with all these different teachings as well. I'm familiar with a lot of these concepts because we've had a lot of them brought onto the podcast as well. So I'm smiling internally because you've just listed probably about seven or eight different things that we've covered, you know, in past episodes that you've, you've gone through. So it sounds like you've had some, some quick wins and some fast transformation as well.

Yeah, yeah, I like to think so. I've certainly immersed myself into the APB world. Yeah, you know, I'm definitely a big fan of the podcast. I don't think I've ever missed one episode, Bosco, so I'll take that as.

A compliment, my man. We' seasons of it. But tell me a little bit about your, you know, let's start off with some technology. So you talked a little bit about marketing and vision and statements. What type of technology are you using today? Especially, you know, you talked about the fact that there was a time and era where social media didn't exist. So how do you go from that to all of a sudden now looking at CRMs and systems like that, you know.

Yeah, definitely. Look, like I said, I'd never considered myself to be, you know, a super tech savvy kind of guy, however, but I could see these younger builders coming through the ranks and, you know, having these great social media accounts and, and you know, for us not even having one, you know, I was, I was kind of like one of those old school builders where, you know, you thought a, a referral was all you needed to get by. But I soon learned very fast that it's not a very good way to, to rely on that or to base putting all your eggs in one basket. That's essentially what I was doing. So, as well as all the social media accounts now we've introduced a project management software that manages our Budgets and also keeping clients informed of progress and scheduling and contractor management.

But you've become really proactive in everything you're doing. It sounds like your communication, your marketing, your technology. It sounds like you've gone from a reactive business to a very proactive business.

Oh, 100%. Yeah. Like before APB, I didn't know what a CRM system was and we've now got a CRM system implemented and we're using it, you know, to track any new inquiries and nurture our, our leads and with email marketing campaigns like, it's just, it's just amazing. And we're also using overseas virtual assistants to help out with admin tasks, copywriting, you know, 3D rendering, you name it. We're just, yeah, really implemented a lot of things fast and we're just seeing the changes happen.

You weren't kidding, you weren't kidding about going all or nothing?

Yes, I wasn't kidding. Yeah. I think I'm, I think I'm getting a bit of a name for myself in the APB, Mr. Implementation, I've been told.

Well, I'm sure that's coming from, from one of the coaches, that's for sure. Well, look, tell me a little bit about, you know, some of the critical impact. You know, you've obviously, you know, done all these things, you're seeing a lot of activity happening. If you think about results, like quick results or quick wins. Can you tell us a little bit about where you're seeing the most positive impact today for your business?

Yeah, I'd say the most critical or positive impact is definitely financial side of things was the biggest one for me. Always considered myself a bit of a numbers guy, but I soon learned that I wasn't across my numbers as much as I should have been. So, you know, knowing my numbers and being able to benchmark them to industry standards was, was massive, you know. Cause I didn't even know what the industry standards really were until like the APB explained or showed what they should be. I was definitely naive, you know, thinking as long as there's money in the bank account, we're doing okay. Right. And I mean that's important. Don't get me wrong, there's so many other metrics that are involved in to truly see how you're operating monthly, quarterly and even yearly. So that was probably the main critical impact. And, and then also niching getting a clearer direction for the business moving forward. Right. You know, setting quarterly one year and three year targets. You know, just having a business plan and tracking our progress against it. It was a, it was a big improvement. Like I said, we, we. Originally when I first started the business I thought I could do it all, you know, in commercial, residential, industrial. But now, you know, we, we're specifically niching the, you know, high end custom home, new builds and that's the market we want to be in. And so that's the market we're really focusing on at the moment.

Now how have you approached your marketing and sales specifically? You know, you talked a little bit about revenue and typically that associates itself to pipeline perhaps or your CRM as well. Right. So how have you approached your branding and your marketing and sales? Your website looks really clean and fresh as well, having done some research on it.

Yeah, thanks for that. I appreciate that comment. Well, firstly after joining the private mentoring group and working with my executive coach Jacob, I quickly realized we had no marking period. Like it just didn't exist. So that was one of the first things that we knew we had to work on. So like I said, I was, I was a builder. I thought the word of mouth or referral was how everyone was doing it in my market. But yeah, as I said, that was definitely wrong. So, you know, with the help of APB and their rewards partners, I used smarter websites and we gauge them to build us a new high converting website based on the apb, based on the APV model. It's been a real game changer for us, Bosco. You know, just having, having a site that you can refer people to rather than going through the spiel of trying to sell yourself to everyone, every new potential client, you know, it's been great for us but you know, also to that we've, we've started an Instagram and Facebook account and then later on we joined the world of LinkedIn which we're just still sort of navigating and we're early days with the LinkedIn side of things and yeah, just really focusing on building up our social channels and in getting our brand more known, letting people know what we do and what we're about.

Yeah, so it sounds like you took a leap and you jumped all in. And it sounds like, you know, you. Obviously it takes a lot of, some people call it bravery but it takes a lot of courage to go, hey, I'm going to put myself out there, I'm going to invest in myself, in the systems and in the coaching. Why do you think it's so challenging for builders building companies, company owners to change their ways or to, you know, take that leap? Is it more fear that you have to conquer or is. Is it just that your role is just isolating? You don't have a lot of people to talk to.

All the above. All the above.

You can tell I've been hanging out with way too many builders.

You have, you have, like, fear is definitely something that I feel that a lot of builders face. Yeah, you know, I mean, you don't know what you don't know, right?

Yeah.

And I mean, most building company owners come from a trade background and the education we receive is more focused at the product, not so much, you know, running a business. So, you know, and I also, also don't think the principle of building has changed much, if at all, in my time.

Right.

You know, there's certainly new material technology that's evolving, but other than that, I feel there needs to be more education on running, on running a successful building company, like the app Deliver. So, yeah, I definitely feel that's the challenge for most builders out there.

So, Kieran, tell me a little bit about why is clarity so important when it comes to running a building business?

Clarity. I feel making informed decisions and data driven decisions rather than emotional decisions has been the most important for me.

It sounds like you've been empowered to make those decisions now and you make them a lot better and more confidently as well, from what you're saying.

Yeah, definitely, definitely. Mindset's been a huge thing for me also. Yeah, just, just having a good frame of mind and, and having a clear direction of where I want to be, you know, having that business plan that I can keep going back to and, you know, having having that focus to strive for those, those milestones that I've set for myself.

And it sounds like you've built a road map now that you can refer to. So here's a question for you. You know, you talked a little bit about when you first got in there. You had all these different ambitions and you had all these different directions. Right. But I've got a question. Now that you've got this clarity, now that you've got this roadmap and, you know, you seem really motivated with the direction you're going and it seems to be pretty focused, what do you think you're. You're transitioning your business into today? If you go, you know, where's your business going? Where do you think it. It is? Because it sounds like you've got a new vision now.

Yeah, definitely. Definitely I have. You know, hopefully, as it's only been early days for me with the apb, my main aim is to be able to step back from the Day to day running of, of the business, you know, and focus more on the business as a whole. You know, working on my business rather than in it, you know, that's something that the APB has definitely taught me. Having more flexibility for the business to operate seamlessly in my absence. You know, having been able to have some time away, I spend some time with families or go on, on a vacation and just knowing that the company can just, you know, just survive without me. So that's definitely where it's transitioning into at the moment. And that's certainly a big goal that I'm striving towards. You know, I haven't quite gotten there yet, but like I said, it's only early days and I feel if I continue on the trajectory I am, I'm sure I'll get there.

So if you had to look at your overall success factor so far and you know, the reason for your growth as well, immensely, what do you think that would look like? Like what's the main contributing factor that's causing all of this to happen?

Well, good question. Well, obviously joining the APB has been the overall success factor for me. Having that support network of other members also, you know, being able to swap stories and, and issues that we're currently facing, you know, because the last two years has been pretty tumultuous in the industry, as we all know, and, and getting that help from other builders, which was obviously foreign to me before the apb. And you know, it can be a lonely place sometimes running a building company. And I also think equally being in the right mindset, you know, wanting to make these changes and actually implementing them, you know, the things that I'm learning along the way, it's one thing to learn, but it's another ball, it's another ball game to actually implement them. So, you know, I feel that's been my success, my success so far. And then also knowing my true financial position at any given, at any given point, like tracking and constantly monitoring my financial KPIs and having the tools that the private mentoring have developed for their members is, you know, is helping me grow for sure.

So what are you seeing as a trend right now in the industry? As a builder, you talked about, you know, a challenging two years and you talked about, you know, finding comfort in talking to other builders as well. But what are you seeing, positive or negative as a trend in the industry right now?

I'm a very positive guy, so I'm definitely only going to give you any positives. Yeah, but you know, look, obviously I'm seeing social media side of things has become very popular in the building industry. It's certainly taken over and, and you know, so if you can't, if you can't beat him, you got to join them. So. But on, on a building side of things, talking about the project sort of things, I'm in my particular market, I'm seeing pools of definitely like swimming pools have definitely come back in. You know, a few years ago the projects would have come across my desk, didn't really have pools in them, but almost every project that comes across my desk now has a swimming pool. So that's certainly a trend. That's, that's come back in, in the, in, I guess in the last few years. You know, I know green living is also starting to get more popular. You know, with, with the rising cost of utilities and, and more people are now installing solar and having that, that battery storage system. That's definitely on, on trend. And another thing that we use in a lot of our houses or homes is home automation. So it's, it's become popular, especially in a very short time. You know, you can, can pretty much run your house from your mobile phone now.

Bosco, there's an app for everything, isn't there?

There is, there is. And you know, I think, well might be in my lifetime, but I think definitely 3D printed homes, you know, they're doing it now, but probably not, probably not as economical as can be or will be. But I'm sure that will definitely take a fair chunk of the market definitely in the future.

Yeah, I mean, I think I just saw a video off a robot that was working on site through artificial intelligence and robotics to actually do some construction work. And you know, this robot was lifting things and going up the stairs and coming down and I was like, O my God, this industry is changing rapidly. Right.

So that's, that sounds great. You know what that, you know, that means no more sick days.

No more sick days. Yeah. Well, listen, I, I could talk to you about innovation all day long, but I, you know, for the sake of time, I, I'll ask you one last question. And it, it really goes back to the, the heartbeat of this transformation for you. And that is what have you learned about yourself during this entire quick transformation process? And, and so much change that's happened for your business, which I'm really excited for. But you know, if you look back now, what have you learned about yourself?

Yeah, right. I guess I've learned how determined. I really want to make changes for the better. Yeah. I do love building and design. And that's why I got into the building business originally. I'm still wanting, you know, like I said, I think 27 or 28 years I've been in the trade or in the, in the building arena and I'm still wanting to absorb more, to improve, you know, to improve myself and my customers journey as well. Yeah, that's definitely what I've learned about myself is, you know, how determined and focused I am.

You feel that that's really what's fueling you every day to embrace all this change and, and not shake your head with fear, I guess.

Yeah, definitely, definitely. Like fear is something that, like I said, we all have in some shape or form. But for me, my fear was failure. The fear of failure has always been, I've always been a high achiever. So I guess at the start if you don't improve or grow, there's less fear because there's less to lose. Right. But you know, just changing my mindset and staying focused and is definitely been, you know, definitely been the best thing for me.

Well, Kieran, I really appreciate your honesty and your candid insight on your story as well. Thank you for, for telling us your story as well. And we look forward to bringing you back as your systems and transformations create an even bigger ripple. And yeah, we're wishing you all the success in your journey and we'd love to have you back again in the future.

Oh, thanks, Bosco. It was a, it was a pleasure. And yeah, thanks for talking to me today.

Cheers, mate.

Cheers mate.

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