97. Controlling Your Sales Process With Sky Kolade

It's just this vicious circle and it never ends well. And it all starts from caving at that point in the sales process. It just. It just goes downhill from there.

Welcome to Professional Builders Secrets, the podcast for building company owners wanting to grow safely and securely. I'm your host, Will Blunt, and today I'm joined by the co founder of the association of Professional Builders, Sky Coladay. Sky, welcome to the show.

Hey, Will, how you doing?

Yeah, really, really well. How are you doing?

Yeah, good. I'm excited for this one.

I'm really excited. We haven't done an episode, just you and I. So really, really excited to get into it.

Yeah, just us too.

Exactly. The reason we're doing this episode today, sky, is we had a meeting recently with a number of our members and something that came out of that meeting was really quite interesting in terms of how they were handling the sales process. Do you want to just explain a little bit more about that?

Yeah, well, this one was so interesting. So this came from one of our members, like you mentioned, and we were talking about the sales process. We were talking about the biggest challenges that are coming back, I suppose besides the fact that sales hasn't been a problem in the last few years, and suddenly it's now something you've really got to focus on. What was really interesting was the amount of prospect effects that builders have that are wanting to source their own materials, labor, like fixtures, fittings, all of that, and it had gone. Or what they were mentioning is the amount or like the frequency that this was happening now. So from back in the day for it to happen, you know, between one in every ten prospects and inquiries that that was coming up, and that was a question to 1 and 2, like feedback. 50% of your inquiries and prospects now are trying to source their own components, which is a huge difference and just ringing all these warning bells for builders around, because, I mean, we all know that's not an ideal situation.

Why is it not ideal that they might want to bring some of their own materials or do bits and pieces themselves?

Well, I know I don't have to convince anyone listening of this because everyone has either dealt with it, gone through the experience themselves, or they've been very close and seen what happens, and it just ends up being a total nightmare. It's your prospects essentially wanting to take control. And I don't think it's necessarily from prospects thinking, how can I be difficult today? I think maybe there's a small percentage of people that ever go into that camp. I think it's just from a Lot of uncertainty in the marketplace. When you look at what's happened over the last few years, what the media is reporting on at the moment, there's not a lot of confidence getting inspired in the building industry right now. So when consumers are thinking, look, I still do want to build my dream home or renovate that, when they have that much uncertainty and not much trust in the industry or the process, they are trying to limit their exposure by thinking, well, what can I control? And I think that's where it's coming from. It's not a very malicious place. But regardless of the intent, for any building company owner, you know it only ends in tears. You're a professional, you want to control everything. You have a process, you have a way things are done. And unless you can control it all, you can't control the whole outcome or the final outcome right at the end. And it always ends in tears. No one's ever 100% happy. It'll still miraculously always be your fault and you have to take responsibility for it. So it's a nightmare from start to finish. And I think what's really concerning to a lot of people is to go from 1 in 10 to 1 in 2. If that's happening everywhere, you suddenly feel really trapped and you actually start thinking, well, is that the market now? Do I have to do that? And that's where it becomes like that really, like dangerous mindset.

Yeah. So what kind of, what problems do you see coming from like letting like your consumers and your clients starting to control that process?

Well, the second that happens, like you obviously lose complete control, you end up having to essentially compete on price. Because if they're wanting to source their own materials, source their own labor, you know, their brother in law does the tiling and whatever it might be, suddenly you are competing on price because it's about price, even if it's nothing to do with the relationships for them. Some people want to source their own materials or source their own fixtures and fittings because they think they can get a better price. They're going to go and get options that you couldn't get. And suddenly you're left fighting really for your value, trying to really prove every little thing. So suddenly you're competing on price. Competing on price only leads to one thing, which is low margins. As soon as you have low margins, you start hating your entire life. And by that I mean your work. But you just hate your whole life because it's a huge fight every single day. And if you feel like that, make no mistake, your team will Feel like that. So morale in your team gets lower and lower, which means there's going to be a high turnover in your staff. So then you're perpetually trying to recruit, and you can see immediately it's just this, this vicious circle and it never ends well. And it all starts from caving at that point in the sales process. It just. It just goes downhill from there.

Yeah, I can imagine, though, like, to your point, like, if there's challenges with getting leads at the moment and you just want to get a deal over the line, so if someone comes in and says, I want to do my own windows or I want to do my own, like, you know, fixtures and fittings, like you said, it's hard to push back on. Right?

Yeah, exactly. And we've talked about this so many times in the past, you know, so at risk of sounding like a broken record, it's why you're, like, maintaining and monitoring your supply and demand levels are so important. If you're capping and, you know, your capacity for your whole building company is to build, you know, 10, 20 homes in the next year, say it is 20 homes. You want to have enough inquiries so that you're turning people away, you're saying, sorry, let's book you for the year after, and blah, blah, blah. And that's a good thing. That's how your margins increase. But this second you need a lead. The second you need someone, you're emotionally invested. And if you're emotionally invested in sales, you've lost. And it. Look, it's not like sales is all about winning and losing. And, you know, it's like winning and you charge the most and you get the most margin, but it's whoever is prepared to walk away will get the better deal.

So you're saying you really need to take the emotion out of it and just stick to process a hundred percent.

Hundred percent. Because that's. Think of. I think it was Warren Buffett that said, if you cannot control your emotions, you cannot control your money. And that really just goes straight into sales. If you cannot control your emotions and get emotionally uninvested, and you are looking at the problem as a very logical problem and you're providing a logical solution. And yeah, the sales is important to get your prospects emotionally involved, but you shouldn't be as the seller. You need to be really cut and dry. This is how you work. This is the process from here. We'd love to work with you, but here's how you're going to work with us. And then you step them through that way. Because the second it's, oh, but I really do want this contract. What can I do? I can work with you. And then you just start losing control and then you get that downward spiral, vicious cycle.

It must be tough being in that situation, though, because I'm sure these people that want to build their dream home that come to you, they are emotionally invested themselves and there is a lot of emotion attached to that process. And you probably become quite attached to them during that process as well.

Definitely. I mean, it's a huge. It's. It's such a long sales cycle. But this is the key. This is why you need to do your qualification and disqualification as early as possible. And this really comes into disqualification. You need to sit down and work out your line in the sand. Are you going to do this? Now? It's not for us to tell anyone to do it or not to do it, but we wouldn't recommend allowing consumers to do this because it just ends in tears. Like we've seen it again and again. No doubt you guys listening have had it happen to you or you've seen it again and again as well. So it doesn't necessarily end well. But it's not about just saying a no and not being helpful. It's about, well, how can I avoid either people wanting to do that or how can I help them understand that that's not the best way forward? We need to actually seek first to understand, then to be understood. So if we can try to understand, well, why are they wanting to source their own? Are they concerned that we don't have the variety available? Is it to do with cost? Is it to do with deadlines and timelines? And they've heard about all these delays in the industry and they know someone who will do it very quickly for them, like, where is this coming from? And if we can actually understand that first, then we can demonstrate to them why we do it our way and how we are going to overcome that problem anyway in our own process. But it comes down to a certainty problem. Jordan Belford does this really well. He talks about the certainty scale and to sell anyone, you need high levels of certainty in three different areas. You've got high levels of certainty in the company, so your brand, high levels of certainty in the product that you're doing. So design and build, like your whole service offering. But then the third area of certainty is in you. So you want to establish really where is their trust and certainty falling down, because that's what you need to demonstrate. Demonstrating trust isn't about caving to all of their requests because now they're feeling like they're in control and they're going to have to dictate the whole job because that's the only way things are getting done. And you can just see that's where it just gets worse.

Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, you think you're doing something right by helping them out, but you're actually showing a lack of confidence in that process.

Yeah, you're showing that. Oh, okay, well, we can do it your way. So then really, internally, people could be thinking many things, one of which would be, did you have a plan? Were you even going to think of this if I didn't mention it?

Yeah, exactly. So you kind of mentioned a few of the challenges that builders will face within their business. What other implications are there of, you know, giving over control and succumbing to other people's requests like this?

Well, I mean, ultimately, if you deliver a subpar experience to your clients, like people talk. So that's your reputation. That's how your whole brand. So you're not doing your own building company, any favorite for any favors. But also the fact that your clients are not professional builders. They don't. They don't run a building company. They don't do this for a living. So when you cave and you let them take control of the process, ultimately they are going to be unhappy. Ultimately, they're going to be dissatisfied with the results because in their mind, it's still your site. Like, you are still running this and things have gone wrong. They have mentioned that they want to source their own. Let's just go with materials, for example. But because you were relying on them, maybe it wasn't ordered on time, maybe they then, you know, changed their mind. Maybe they didn't go through a reputable company because they didn't know them. It was just someone they found. Ultimately, as much as you know, that that's not your fault, they think it's your fault because A, you agreed to it, and B, you're responsible for the rest of the site and they don't know your huge Gantt chart that you're working off of. And this one delay has a domino effect on everything else. So I think it's. It's so detrimental to your whole brand, your whole reputation, that it's just. It can slowly sink you. But then on the flip side of that, what it does to you as the owner, what it does to your team members, even if it's not you running that project, like that's A slow burn. You've already mentioned this, Will. Like, you're working with your clients for so long, even in just the sales process, and then you got to get to construction and actual delivery of the home. It's too long. And it's. It doesn't make it a happy process. It doesn't make it interesting, doesn't make you want to do it again. And to be honest, Will, this is why so many builders, even in just the last three years, dealing with the clients that they've dealt with, have just thought, you know what? I don't need this. And they want to leave the industry. You don't get into this industry for anything else than any. Any other reason, to be honest. And you love it. And a lot of guys end up leaving the industry because they hate it now, which is so disappointing. It's just such a shame.

Yeah. And I guess it's all those things that add up to that, right?

Exactly. Yeah. And it's all these things without being Ms. Hindsight, they can be avoided. And we've spoken to so many members that have just gotten to the end of one of these projects, whether they were a difficult client for other reasons or it was sourcing their own materials, and then the project went from bad to worse. But we've spoken to so many clients, and they all say it. They all can say, yeah, the warning signs were there at the beginning. But. But it's this little lie we all tell ourselves. And it'll be different this time. Like, it's okay, I think I know what's wrong with this. But, you know, you think you're emotionally invested, so you either need the job, you need the cash flow, you need something, so you're emotionally invested, you want the job, and then you tell yourself this lie of, well, it'll be different. I know what to look out for, and I won't let it, you know, go from bad to worse. But it always does, unfortunately.

How do you push aside that little voice which is saying, it'll be different this time? Because we've all had it, like, in all parts of life right before. And I'm sure it's one that ticks away until you've actually been really burnt by it?

Yeah. Well, I think this is where you can't do it alone. I think if you're the only person in sales in your building company, it's even more dangerous because you kind of feel like it's all on your shoulders. That's. You need. You need to get out, you need to talk to other building Company owners, you need to have this conversation. If it's you and like other people or there are a couple of people on your team doing the sales, make sure they talk and regroup and, and have a mastermind together. Just a debrief. Because it's that accountability. As soon as you say it out loud, your tail kind of goes between your legs because you just know that it's not okay and you know that it's wrong. And it's like, nevermind, don't need the answer. I know what to do. But when you're by yourself, the little voice inside your head is convincing you to do the wrong thing. And it's out of emotion, out of need, out of desperation. So you just gotta be able to voice it, talk about it out loud, and talk about it to other people that get it, because they will be strong for you. This happened in our group recently, didn't it, Will, of someone posting this in the group. And there was just dozens of guys commenting going, you don't need to walk away, walk away now. Red flag, red flag.

Yeah, exactly. And I guess having, as you said, other people that are going through similar things to talk to can be really valuable.

Yeah, totally.

Just so you know, you're not alone.

Exactly. Because otherwise, you know, you're so much more emotional. It's not just like one subsection of emotions that's getting you. It's everything. You feel very anxious. You feel like, well, everyone has this. This is how the industry operates now. These are all the inquiries I'm getting. This is how I have to pivot and how I have to change. And it's not at all, we can change other things instead and still work with the clients we want to work with.

Okay. So I bet you there's a lot of people out there at the moment thinking, great, yeah, I run into those problems, but what can I do? So how can builders take back control of the sales process before it gets to all these challenges?

Well, don't take on those clients. Number one, I think that'll be. That's probably the last checkpoint you can get to. The second you say yes to a client's request like that, that's where it becomes really, really difficult. So if we sort of combat everything before saying yes. So if someone's actually requested this from you, I mean, we could talk all day long and we have talked about it, like changing your marketing and what we could address in your marketing to attract better kinds of leads. But say you're talking to leads in front of you and they have this request, the most important thing we can do is check our emotions, park them to the side, and just be inquisitive. We need to truly and deeply understand where these questions are coming from first so that we know how we need to sell them after. A lot of the time your prospects tell you how to sell them because they then tell you what, what they're afraid of, what they value, what they're looking for. And as long as you can take detailed notes, you can customize your pitch to make sure you hit all of those and then you can knock it out of the park. A lot of it does completely depend on how many systems you already have inside your building company. Because like we just talked about, if you succumb, your clients are going to think, well, you didn't really have any of this thought about or in a process anyway, so they're dictating it. So if you can have this crystal clear, nutted out, you know where you're going, it's a lot easier to then stick to your own sales process if you have one. You know, you don't have to go to their buying process. So have a written down sales process that you know works. You know what the criteria is to move someone to the next stage again and again and again. But make sure you're not in one of those business models that is competing on price, that's putting all of the focus on really everything but your value. And that really is the difference between a cost plus contract and a fixed price contract. And really your whole business model. Make sure you're providing a valuable service from start to finish. You are design and build. You're not just there to quote on someone else's plans and then do a cost plus job. Build in full value, make yourself a whole package because then it's a lot easier to sell that as a whole solution and then give all the reasons, those features and benefits as to why you do that. It's so that you don't have these outcomes, you know.

Yeah, definitely. And I guess it comes back to your point, like it all feeds into each other. Like if you're not getting enough of the quality leads though, it's much harder to have that business model because you're more likely to, you know, give up and just accept the leads that you do get.

Well, exactly. Yeah. So I mean like ultimately it starts completely on the marketing end. You want to make sure you got your messaging right and what's your niche and what's your unique value proposition? What's unique? Your selling proposition, like get all of those right and then you want to be advertising and marketing to generate the leads. We've talked about this so many times. I'm not going to bore everyone with the whole supply and demand. Of course we need more leads than we truly need and it's so we can pick and choose and it's so that we have that confidence because we've got a line out the door. But you just got to make sure your sales skills are staying sharp because good marketing, I'm sorry, good marketing doesn't make any company super successful. It can still fall over because you need to have the other processes to back it up. Good marketing gets people in front of you. You have to be able to close and you have to be able to follow your own sales process to close consistently and to close the leads you want to close. And then you need a process for how you're going to deliver it. Your company can still fall over at any one of these points if you don't have the next system available. It starts with marketing. But you cannot neglect your sales skills in the middle. If you don't qualify correctly, if you don't do a deep enough emotional discovery, you're never going to be able to close them right at the end. So it all flows so well onto each other. But you just don't want to neglect any of those skills that really we just have to focus on sharpening and dusting off really from the last few years that we never had to worry about it.

Can we go a little bit deeper on that sales process? Obviously, APB has a sales process that it teaches in our action plans, but can you just talk through the steps of that and maybe just highlight the key points of each step so that people can understand what they need to learn more about?

Yeah, 100%. So if you think, if you go from marketing, we really separate the difference between someone who's like a marketing qualified lead to someone who's sales qualified. And really that is the difference between someone who's a lead who's just joined your database and you're sending them information to someone, you have an actual phone number for that you can call and have a conversation with. And the importance here is good leads aren't just people with phone numbers because you want to get them so early in the journey. You want their email addresses, you want to market to them. But when you can have a conversation with someone, these are the numbers you want to measure. If you can have some kind of measurement that you can get people onto your database with phone Numbers. Now is the time that you want to be able to create appointments. This is where it all starts. And if you can have these phone call appointments with people, but really ultimately what you're trying to do on that phone call is qualify them. There's only two outcomes. You're either qualified or you're disqualified. And if you're qualified, well, great, we get to move on to the next step. But if you're disqualified, it doesn't mean you're never going to build or you're never going to renovate your home or whatever it is that you do. It just means you're not going to do it right now. Now some people are disqualified forever. Like they're just out of your catchment area, they want build a deck and you build custom new homes, you know what I mean? So some people are disqualified, sure, but some people just haven't settled on their land yet. Some people, you know, it could be many different things. You know, they're going to live in Europe for a year for work or something. So it's a timing thing. But ultimately when you get them through to qualified, it means they've hit a small amount of criteria for you to actually invest in them. And again, this is why the non emotional is so important, because if you're emotional you can argue any one of those points and logically it doesn't make sense. Like they're going away for a year. Why are you even going to book an appointment for next week? They leave on Wednesday, you know.

Before you move forward there. So can you just like. So it's like almost like a fire round of closed questions that you're asking to just like a yes, no, you're out or you're in.

Yeah, but with a little bit more skill, a little bit more tact. Otherwise we're kind of like those insurance guys on the phone and it's like very boring and very disability engaged. So you put a little bit of spice behind it so it feels like a conversation. The best qualification calls don't feel like you're being qualified, they feel like a conversation and you get to the end and you didn't even realize that they were following the process. So, yeah, I think there are about seven questions that we go through with our members and you need a particular answer, whether it is yes or no or the budget's in the realm or whatever it ends up being. Which budget, by the way, is not a qualifying question. That comes later in the next part. But after you've gone through those questions, that's a warm Conversation. Even though there are seven, it's not a seven minute conversation. Like a good qualification call can be 20, 30 minutes because it's back and forth. You're making people feel heard, you're having a conversation, it's going back and forth. But only when they're qualified do you invite them to the next stage. You can have a deeper discovery. The next stage. Just knowing they're qualified isn't then inviting them to your offices and trying to get them into designs and go, go, go. You still need the emotion behind it. So you want to then move into what we call as a discovery and there'll be like seven, eight, nine more questions to go through to really understand the emotion behind, like why they want to build, why they want to renovate. What is the most important thing to them about this build, what are their concerns? Because again, people will tell you how you can sell them and you just need to make sure that you are proving that you've listened to them because that's all interesting.

So it sounds like the qualifying process is more binary, whereas the discovery process is a little bit more emotional and understanding what's driving them.

Yeah, the discovery process is where you get to really show off your sales skills. You can't, you, you can't wing a discovery. You know what, we've got most of our builders, or a lot of our builders, I should say, actually break up qualification and discovery. So even say it's just you and your building company doing the sales, as the owner, you still do all the sales, that's perfectly fine. But there's no way you can field every qualification call.

Yeah.

So what some of those guys do is they have their office administrator, their receptionist, you know, office manager, do the qualification calls. Because it is like you say, it's so binary. It's yes, no, you're either in or you're out. And whether they pass or they don't pass, that administrator, if they pass, can send them through and schedule the call with you. If you're the one doing solely all of the sales calls and you're only talking to people who are qualified and now you do an emotional discovery, does it mean 100% of those people go are actually fully qualified after you've done discovery? No, people can still deselect themselves in that process. But compared to how many people you're talking at qualifications level to then discovery, you've weeded out a whole heap and you didn't even have to do it, you got your administrator to do it.

I imagine the mindset's different as well. Like, I know in the past where I've been doing sales, you if you go into a call knowing they've already been qualified, you've got a totally different mindset about how to approach the call.

Oh, my gosh. And people get excited to do it as well because they're like, here we go. I can see the criteria. They've got land, they're in my area, they have built before. They hated the experience because this happened. That makes sense. Or whatever it ends up being. And suddenly you're like, I'm ready to go. You're excited to make that call, whereas we've all been there. You get a lead and you're just like, I know nothing about you. It's a bit like the anonymity there is allows you to ignore it for a little bit longer at least.

How quickly can you actually disqualify someone jumping back a step? But I know you love this disqualification process. I'm just asking.

Depending what they say. No, it can be as quick as like five minutes. And that's a really good point, actually. Just because you've got seven questions to go through, they're disqualified on the first one. Please don't ask the remaining six like, they're done, their time's up, you just got to get rid of them and move on.

Yeah, we joke about that in the interview process.

If someone's not a fit, they can go.

It's the same kind of thing. Right. You're going through a similar process when you recruit.

Exactly. And think of how many interviews you have to do, how many phone interviews. The same with qualifying. Like, you do not have all day and you're not a charity. I'm sorry, you're running a business. And even if you're not doing them and you're thinking, it's okay, I'll get my administrator or a junior person on the team to go through it, make sure they are trained in letting people go and get off the phone if they're not qualified early on. You don't owe it to anyone to finish the list. They're disqualified. You don't build 400km away from where you're located. It's just not possible.

So would you always do the discovery on a call or maybe an in person meeting or is that coming next?

Well, look, you can. You can be very dynamic. I was going to say flexible. You can be very dynamic with the person in front of you, depending on a lot of the answers you got on qualification. To be honest, what we teach, what we recommend is try doing it on the phone. And often, you know, and again, this depends who does your qualification, if you're doing it, or the salesperson on your team does the qualification, they can go into discovery at the same time. And that's, that's actually a real benefit of having a sales team member do qualifications, because you can do it all on the spot. That's a 45, one hour conversation. Like you can get it all done, whereas if it's broken up, yes, from a time perspective, it's a lot easier on you. But then that discovery has to be scheduled. I would definitely make sure it's then on the phone as well. So you're not getting all these in person meetings and it's still a bit disjointed, especially until you've made it a true art form. Some guys, you guys have incredible offices. Like that is a sales pitch in itself. When you get people to come in and see your space and all the artwork around are basically renders and photos of the homes you finish and they sit on your beautiful couch and they have these gorgeous brochures in front of them and everyone's happy and smiley. That can seal the deal in so many ways for you as well. But ideally, if you reserve that until you know they're qualified, you know that you've got how you sell them because your discovery is done. Invite them for an in person meeting. It doesn't have to be in person. You can very successfully do this on Zoom. But a lot of you guys have offices and it works out very well doing it in person as well. Invite them into your offices, go to their house, coffee shop, wherever you want to go and have a meeting with them. You're basically like recapping a lot of the discovery because there's going to be a separation from that phone call to when you're meeting them. Make sure you've got all those notes, like you're very clear and where it is, like, what are they looking for, where are they going? But ultimately, if they come to your offices, the goal, once you've qualified them, they've done a discovery, you've got to get them into concepts, like a concept design agreement. You want to be able to take these guys out of the market and sell them on how you and your team can help them design their dream home on this unique block of land that they have that's going to suit their lifestyle. And that's a pitch you really got to have ready in advance. And that's why your discovery matters, because you know how you can pitch it based on their fears, their desires, what they're looking for, their timeline, all of it.

Yeah. It's a tricky one. I guess I can see both sides of that process. Whereas you said splitting up qualifying and discovery, that makes sense for giving the salesperson better quality calls, but then it also draws out the sales process. Right. Cause you've got to have two calls.

Yeah. So one's not necessarily better than the other. It's just going to see what fits within your building company because one isn't more detrimental than the other. Honestly, as long as you do the process, the most important thing is the sequence, not the speed. As long as the sequence is there, you can go through it as fast as you like or as slow as you like. And everyone can think of one client that took so long to sign up, but they still went through your process. So the sequence was the one thing that mattered. Speed did not. The one thing you cannot do in sequence is you cannot skip too many steps. You have to go from one to the next to the next. You skip too many steps, it ends in tears. It's a shambles. So you have to be able to work through your process.

I don't know why I'm thinking of this. It's quite weird, but it's reminding me of SQUID games for some reason. I don't know if you've seen that show.

Yeah.

But like there's this one game where they're like, got to go from room to room, but they've got to solve the puzzle in the first room to get through the door of the next room. So it's like you can't progress to the next room until you've finished the first room.

Everyone just gets so frustrated. So as long as you're there with empathy and you can explain why you're not going to die, but this is the next.

Well, you are in SQUID games, but you're not as a builder.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. Okay, so you set the appointment, qualifying's done, you've done a discovery meeting or call, whichever works for you. And you've unearthed, like, the fears and, you know, dreams that your customer has. How do you go through this concept design agreement process?

Oh, such a great question. Because you're going to nail your pitch the more you do it. At the end of the day, this is why it's supply and demand. You want to be, you know, unless you're building just one home a year, which honestly not many of our members do, there's a lot more than one opportunity coming through the door each year. So you want to be able to really, really nail how you're pitching your concept designs. We'd highly recommend some kind of a presentation, some kind of visual that you can refer to so that you can get it closed. But at the end of the day, the clearer it is that you actually have a package. It shows that you're prepared, you've thought about this, you've done it before, you know the drill. Here are all the features, here are all the benefits, here's how long it's going to take and you know, here's where you sign the dotted line. You get started today, and here's. Here's what the first meeting looks like. And you get to paint the picture of what the next four to six weeks or however long this concept design process is going to take at your building company. Like really future pace them, let people see. Okay, so we would meet on Wednesday and then we're going to go through this first and then I get introduced to Sally and we're going to do that. You know what I mean? Like actually demonstrate what that product looks like to them and doing it visually is best. Like, people remember like what they look at in those meetings in your offices. And I completely left this out. But what you'll find is what works incredibly well is at your offices you're going to have prepared and ready because you've already done your discovery, you will have pre prepared. Well, guys, based on our conversation, I wanted to show you some previous homes we built with or some people who came to us with very similar criteria as to what you're mentioning. So let me show you what we've done and you get to walk them through all of your expertise and get them to really fall in love with. Oh my gosh, these guys know what they're doing. That's what I want. I love that kitchen, I love that bathroom look. I don't like that feature. And encourage that. Like, tell me what you like about them, tell me what you don't like. I want to hear, you know, your understanding. And that walks you straight on into then pitching your concept designs and walking them through what happens from here. It's perfect sequence.

Yeah, they do that on Property Brothers on. I don't know if you've ever watched that show before. No, but they, well, they don't have the pamphlets and stuff like that of previous homes. They actually walk them through like a designer home and say, what do you like? What don't you like? And that crafts the whole story of like, what they, what they come up with to pitch them.

Gosh, I'm getting ahead of myself. But can you imagine the AI in future? And it's just, you're ticking, you're crossing. It could be like completely interactive. You could tap on your iPad, tick, cross, tick, cross, and then it could spit out this whole criteria. It could be amazing. But maybe it's not that futuristic.

Actually, that's pretty. Pretty upon us.

Basically, in one year, we can do an anniversary episode of this podcast and be like, well, it's here.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Okay, so are you getting them to sign an agreement, a legal agreement in that concept meeting?

Yeah. So a concept agreement, we talk about that. It doesn't need to be a huge legal whatever. It's a product, it's a sale. So you're basically the goal of that meeting is to make a sale. Now, what you charge for your concept designs is going to completely differ for every single one of you guys listening, because you all have very different products. Really, what caliber of home are you building? Are you doing renovations? What's the size and what's the scale? So you want to be really in line with your market, certainly initially. Then you want to get to above it. You want to be the premium, you want to be the best, and you also want to have margin on that. And again, the more demand you have, the more that you don't need. Every sale that comes through, you want the people who are prepared to pay for you guys as the premium and this is what you deliver. But whatever that ends up being, it's an amount that anyone can put on their credit card. If you're in the luxury ultra high end, even though super expensive concept designs, people got better limits. So they're still putting that on their card and you can still get the sale. Yeah, exactly.

I'll get all the points for it anyway, so.

Exactly. Look, ultimately you can get them to sign the agreement that you're getting it started and it's just a wire transfer. Like, it's just not a big deal. Right. You can get them to pay on invoice and it's due within, you know, X amount of days and they sign here. If. If that happens. And even if it doesn't, they pay by credit card. Just make sure you book the first meeting to initiate the concept design process and phase with your designers or the roundtable meeting where a few people are involved, where it's like, you know, the brain dump meeting and you're getting everything out of your head. Make sure that is booked because it's almost like it's alleviating any of that buyer's remorse if you just get them to pay and then they walk away and it's like, okay, we'll be in touch with what happens next. Like, that's not a good experience. So pre book like what those next few weeks looks like. So they get excited and name the meetings, make sure it's in their calendar, have all the reminders set up. Because ultimately you're not in business to sell concept designs. You're in business to sign a building contract. And this is just, you know, really the first thing you're getting them to pay for. Ultimately, when your concept designs are done, you have a meeting. You've been working on it the whole time they've been involved, they, they know where it's going, so it's not a surprise. But that final meeting you have where you present those concept designs, that's not the end of the meeting. The whole point of that meeting is to then get them moving through your sales process to the next step, which really is the fact that they're in love with the, they're chomping at the bit. They can't wait to get started. Well, okay, here's the next step. And you're just very easily guiding them towards. Well, it's a preliminary building agreement. We need to get it costed, we need to do engineering, we need to do all these different things. And whatever you put in your prelim package, again, it's completely customized and the cost is going to be very relevant to the kind of building you do. But that is the stepping stone between the design of the home and the contract of the home. It's that pre construction agreement, preliminary everything that you can take out of the contract or that needs to be done before you build the home. Engineering, soil tests, like anything, there's so many different things you can include, but obviously fixed price contract creation as well. And that's, that involves creating a schedule that involves getting complete costings, materials, labor, who's going to be working on this project. And you can explain and demonstrate the value, how long it takes, how much work it takes, and you can sell them a preliminary building agreement. You have the next few meetings booked, or you walk them through what that process is going to look like. And then finally on that last prelim meeting, when you deliver the fixed price contract, the goal of that meeting is to sign it. You're there to sign the contract and get the job.

So how do you get them to make that, that commitment in the moment, like put their credit Card down and purchase the concept agreement. So you'll go through and actually build out the full costings and everything like that. What urgency can you use to get them to jump on board?

Such a good question, because most consumers do not understand how long these processes take. So will you and I, we're sitting down here. It's the second half of the year, easy. I could be sitting down, talking to you, being like, okay, I definitely want to move in to the home you're going to build me by this time next year. That's a year. You got plenty of time. It's not too big. I'm just really excited. And we all know that it's just not that easy. Number one, you could be booked out for the next year anyway. So you get to address that in qualification. Right. So all these phone calls we've done in advance, qualification and discovery, we've really understood what's realistic and what's not and what their expectations are as well. Because ultimately, even if they're thinking end of next year, so it's over a year away before they want to move in, ultimately, a lot of consumers do not understand that. Okay, well, to go through concept designs could probably take two, three months if they're decisive. You know, if they're not, it could take a lot longer. Then they need to understand. What does the rest of the process look to you? Well, look, you know, Sam Kelly, we don't make you go straight into a building contract after this. What we have is something in the middle. We call it a preliminary building agreement. Essentially what it includes is this, this, this, among other things. You know, we can talk about the details when we get to that point. But the reason we do this is because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You get to explain that, you know, you get to get it fully costed. You create a schedule, you do this, you do that. Demonstrate the value and what it means to them, I. E. The benefits, so that they can actually work back in their heads going, oh, so you only work on particular amount of construction slots, slots. You're booked out until the slot that's starting in March next year. A home of this caliber could probably take anywhere between X amount of months in this amount of months. So suddenly they're thinking about it and you're providing so much value because you're educating them on that process and they're suddenly going, oh, so okay, even if we were to say yes today, that means I'd have to sign next year's construction slot tomorrow just to know that I get it done. By Christmas. Is that right? You're like, yes. So they're like, okay, so concept designs, I should have started four months ago. And you're like, yes. And then you get to unpack that whole process. But it makes them very realistic in their future expectations. So genuine urgency and genuine scarcity, of course, but it's by explaining the whole big picture. And so that's when they're like, wanting to get started sooner rather than later. A lot of guys just procrastinate because they don't understand that design takes time and so does preliminary.

Yeah, I think you're coming from a position of strength there as well. If you've, like, you know, you booked down in advance, you've got construction slots in place and all the things you just mentioned there. Whereas if you don't have any of those things, you just like, you know, it's a bit of a scramble.

And if we rewind all the way to the beginning of this conversation, I feel like we've almost gone off track. But if we go to the beginning of this conversation, anyone who's saying, I want my own materials, I want this or that, it's like, look, we're, you know, we've built a company that delivers all of this. We've got this many happy clients. That's just not something we do because we can't guarantee the outcome. We don't know those suppliers or that's not our preferred ones who work to our standards and to our timelines. So, look, if that's a deal breaker for you, completely understand, it's unfortunately just we can't build it. So all the best with your project, and that is who's willing to walk away first. And to be honest, if you can back everything up, if you've got the systems and processes in place, some people are just going to go, okay, it's not that important to me. I'd rather go with you guys and your guys, who you'd recommend because you guys are confident. You seem like you're very happy. You know your process, you've got it all going, you've done the prep work. I have that certainty in you now and I'm willing to go ahead. Some people not so much, but you wouldn't want them anyway, so see you later.

Yeah, because I guess some people might get to that design concept stage and they'll be like, oh, yeah, I can get those windows done, or whatever it is. And that's where you need to stand strong.

Absolutely. That's a really good point. So imagine if right on Qualifying and on discovery. None of that came up. They never mentioned any of their suppliers. Because this can happen. It can happen right at those concepts. Stand your ground, be willing to walk away. Just because they're in your offices there and then doesn't mean you need to keep going. You don't need a concept design sale that bad. You want to be able to put your line in the sand and they can either step over it and come towards you or that's where you part ways and you can separate.

Yeah. Nice. So the prelim building agreements in place is what happens next?

Well, that can be a huge process depending on like what you include in your prelims. Right. So these are completely unique packages, depending on what you include. Ultimately the biggest thing you're trying to include in your prelims is the fact that you're going to price up a whole building contract and try and get it to a fixed price so that you can present it to them. You'll hold the price 30 days, let's get it signed, we'll get a contract drawn up, blah, blah, blah. That can take a really long time. Again, depending on how big the project is, but then depending on how many other things you include. We've got a lot of clients that do their full selections in prelims as well, which you should in order to create a fixed price contract. So how, what value are you adding there? Well, your in house interior designer, you get to work with them and you get to bounce off of someone to choose all of your selections. You know what I mean? Like that's difficult, that's, that's really overwhelming for so many clients to do themselves and ultimately leads to delays. Pairing them up with a designer keeps them on track, keeps them on good taste as well. You know, it can all work and it can all flow. So that timeline really varies depending on you guys, your type of building that you're doing. But then ultimately you got to make sure that it's as quick as it can be so that you can still keep up the momentum of the sale and still keep in their expectations of okay, if I know when they wanted to move in, what were their timelines, I need to logically know when, what slots I have available. And you want to be communicating that with your clients the whole time for when is the next construction slot they can start. Because some clients as well, I don't think they really understand that just because you signed a contract doesn't mean your construction starts the next day. Like it's not how it works. And it certainly shouldn't be how it works. You want to have a con, a contract signed, but it stipulates the construction start date and that's your next slot available. And if you're doing this properly and you're doing it well, you've got a very balanced calendar full of all your start dates. So you're not starting them all at the same time. They're very balanced, very scheduled. And if they delay making a decision, if they delay getting back to you and someone else took that slot, this is another example of standing your ground. You're not just going to bend over backwards to, okay, we'll do two slots at that time. If you only do one. No, because that's just going to throw your system into overdrive and it's not going to help your suppliers, your contractors, nothing thing. So, yeah, it's going to depend on the homes that you're doing, how long that process is going to take. But you want to be communicating with them constantly so that they're not disappointed and they're excited to move to the next stage and ultimately sign your building contract at the end of that.

Well, as you said, like, communication is the big key there. If you've spoken to them about the slots throughout the whole process, then that's not going to be a shock to them when they get the contract. But if you haven't, then that's. That could be a tipping, Like a tripping point.

Exactly. And can you see how all of this just sounds like a lot of work on the surface? I was gonna say, it's really not if you have a system, you know what I mean? Like, there's a lot of things that it's like, okay, yep, gotta write that down. Yeah, gotta do that, gotta do that as well. But honestly, all of this is completely documented in a sales process. Like, we have this totally written down for our members, like play by play as the sales process. So it's not anything that, that's new, it's not anything that you have to reinvent. And honestly, even if every single builder in this industry would have just used even our sales process, all that means is there's consistency. So clients can't even pit you against each other and say, well, this person doesn't do this, or that doesn't make sense because there's a standard. So it's only a good thing if everyone uses these systems, you know.

Yeah, but I guess you've got a choice. So you can use a longer process which builds value at every stage, or you can use a short process and scramble to compete on price and all those things. But it creates more headaches and more work and you're making less money. Whereas if you build more value through a longer process, you have less slots, bigger margins. It all just means a better business.

Oh, I love that. The longer the process, the higher the margins.

Not too long.

But. No, it's very true. It's more about how much value you're building along the way, not the timeline, obviously. But I mean, look, the shorter the sales process, the shorter, or excuse me, lack of sales process, the lack of value that you're even having the ability to build in anyway. So if you're not having all of those steps, how many opportunities do you really have to talk about your value? You don't. You're just following their lead and answering their questions and constantly on the back foot trying to justify your value, not demonstrate it.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, sky, you mentioned that APB sales process available. Available to members. But you also. Is there somewhere else that other people can go to find that process?

Yeah, well, look, we give away a PDF version of our sales blueprint. We call it the Sales Blueprint for Builders, and you can grab it completely free. I think. Let's just chuck it in the show notes. Notes of this episode. That would be worthwhile, but it walks you through that whole process that we've just gone through from start to finish, start. Even including a little bit more detail about marketing that I didn't even get into. And it will give you all of the numbers, the ratios, what your conversion points or your conversion rates at each point in the sales process should be as well. So it'll be an incredible resource to get your hands on.

Yeah, perfect. We can include that in the show notes. Well, sky, thanks so much for coming on the show today. My biggest takeaways were, I guess, really truly understanding what your customers are driving your customers to build a home in the initial discovery is really important. And also just being willing, willing to walk away. I think that's like such a powerful statement to make. If you're willing to walk away, you're going to only work with the best clients. So is there anything else you want to add before we wrap up?

Oh, look, I think just giving everyone the confidence. And if you don't have the confidence solo, just make sure you talk to other people. Make sure you have that accountability to other builders in the industry, people, you know, people on your team. Because that little voice in our head can lie to us. And no, that's not every prospect at the moment. Not every prospect is demanding. You know, you follow their buying process and you cave to their demands. No, no, Stick to your sales process. Be a professional. Deliver value. But talk to other people, and you'll know you're not alone. And you get that confidence from other people. Yeah.

That's great. And as you said, the confidence that you that comes across to your prospects, it goes a long way to actually getting them to be confident in what you do.

Totally. Totally.

Awesome. Thanks, guy. Well, thanks for coming on the show today, and also a big thank you to all of our listeners out there, wherever you are in the world. If you like the show, please subscribe to Professional Builders Secrets on your platform of choice. And if you're feeling generous, leave us a review. But until next time, have a great day.

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