Direct Mail Marketing: Building Brand Equity | Podcast Ep. 132 | Toolbox for the Trades

Guy Fashano, you are the sales manager of Mailing Systems Inc. But better known as MSI to most of our audience here. We're going to be talking all about direct mail in this episode. I am so psyched to pick your brain. But before we do, I'm going to ask you an icebreaker question, which is a new way that I'm introducing the podcast. Now I would like to know what is your favorite time of the day and why?

First of all, Jackie, thank you for this great opportunity. You have created an excellent form for the home services contractors and I'm truly excited to be able to talk about direct mail. It's what we do, it's what we love and what we really, really are focused on and helping our customers grow. So best time or favorite time for me, definitely the mornings. I've been married 22 years. I got four kids. So a long time ago I started getting up early before the house woke up and really just focused on relaxing, having some coffee, maybe working out, but really getting the day going. So the mornings are definitely my my time that I like to get up and enjoy by myself.

I actually agree with you. I'm also a morning person, although my schedule these days, I love sleeping in, but I do love being in the being up and about in the morning and starting my day right. I also want to mention real quick that listeners of the show may notice a little click clacking in the background when I am talking. My producer may notice it too. I am dog sitting again. This time my pupper of the weekend is r muscle and he's really nervous because his mom and dad aren't here. So in case anyone hears that, I apologize. But we love dogs here on Toolbox to the trades. So I appreciate your patience with it. And Guy, I appreciate your patience with it as well. So let's go into my next question which I always ask on the show, which is how did you get into the trades?

You know, I know you asked that question, so I've thought about it. So I have a little bit of an interesting way that I got into it. So MSI, I started dealing with them over 20 years ago as a vendor. So I was a customer of msi and during those early years I became pretty close with the owner founder of MSI and him and I became friends. At some point I no longer utilize them as a vendor. I had moved on. I had my own business and I was no longer using them. But I always kept in contact with the owner founder. And in 2019 he called me and he says, hey, you know, would you be interested in going to lunch? And I was like, oh. I go, that's going to be a serious conversation. Because I could tell the tone of the. And he approached me about coming to work for him and helping him, you know, take his company to a different level from a sales and professional standpoint. And we went back and forth and lo and behold, in 2019, I went to work for, for MSI. And MSI has a long, long history of working within the trades. Like I said, 30 years they've been in the trades and working with them. And as soon as I started with them, I was introduced to a lot of the customers and that was my, my introduction to the trades.

That's awesome. And I, you may have told me this when we first spoke, but what was your first business? You had your own business.

So I, yeah, so I used to own my own business. It was a wholesale print and mail company. So. So I wasn't a manufacturer. I was more on like the agency side. So that's why when I had print mail, they need to be done. I connected with MSI and they did that for me. So I was reselling their products. So I got to know them very, very well over the years and, and I was in that business for eight years servicing my clients. So yeah, so I've been in print and mail a long, long time, not only as a business owner, but now is back in it and people and I had some friends of mine joke, say, dude, you got out of print in mail and you actually came back. What the heck? But so much has changed technology wise and it's just a, it's just a great, great opportunity. I mean I love, I love printing mail and it's, it's so integrated. So much is happening.

Yeah, for sure. And I mean here at Service Titan, right? Cloud based software, like one of our earliest selling points was don't write paper invoices anymore, like get rid of paper. But we launched, I don't remember the year, but on our Marketing Pro product we launched direct mail because we saw that it was a value for a lot of our customers. And I'm curious, throughout your career, have you always worked with contractors?

I have. In some capacity or not always some type of contractor in the home services world, whether it be, you know, roofers, plumbers, H Vac. So I've always had some connection. So I, and actually at some point I looked at Entrepreneur by nature, actually looked at buying a H Vac franchise probably back in the year 2000 2001. So actually went through the process of. And now I kick myself because I didn't know anything about it. I was like, who would utilize, you know, is there really that many people that need those services? Well, now I realize there are.

So, yeah, I mean, should have, could have, would have, right?

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

So you're clearly a direct mail expert. So let's talk a bit about why should contractors use or do direct mail?

So the first thing that I thought of when, when I saw this question was direct mail is proven or right. It's. It's tried and true. And we have several H vac contractors or contractors in general that have gone from, you know, two to five trucks to 50 or 100 million. We actually have a customer that built their maintenance club to over 100,000 members. And their primary method for marketing is direct mail. So my first point is it's tried and true. The other thing that is special about direct mail is it's physical, it's personal. And every piece that you send is going to get touched and recognized at some level, right? We all go to our mailbox, we all grab that stack and we have a right and a left, right, trash, keep track, keep. So we all do that. So we know that every piece of mail is being touched, and we know who it's going to because we sent it there. We know the person's name, we know where they live. The third thing that I thought about was mail is sticky. And what I mean by that is it stays around, right? We all know that when you go through your email box in the morning, it's, you know, you're swiping and deleting, swipe and deleting with mail. We hire customers every year. They come to us and they say, you'll never believe what happened. This guy came to me a year ago after I sent him this offer. So I sent him an offer a year ago. He put it, saved it, and now he wants to move forward with an opportunity I sent him. And the last thing I would say is mail traditionally years ago, was not trackable, meaning it was hard to track. Where digital is somewhat easy to track. Well, all of that has changed. I mean, we can track every piece of mail to when it was delivered to the address. We have developed what we call a matchback or impact report, where we'll pull the data from the customer. We'll match every piece of mail that goes out there, that becomes a customer, and from that data, we can tell the cost that to acquire the customer, their average sale for the for the overall mailing, we'll tell them, you know, what their cost per piece was. I mean, there's so many different things that we can do from a reporting aspect that years ago was not available. So those are, those are kind of the main things that I thought of when you talk about why people should utilize mail.

Yeah. I mean, you've convinced me to do direct mail and I don't have my own business, but maybe I should start sending out flyers for Toolbox for the trades. That would be a trip.

Yeah.

No, you know, as you were talking and I mean, these numbers don't lie. Right. Two trucks to 50 million just using direct mail campaigns. You're the contractor you mentioned who has over a hundred thousand service agreements all through direct mail. Like that shows that this type of marketing is successful. And as I was, you were talking about that, I was also thinking about, you know, because I've grown up, my career has primarily been in digital marketing where you're fighting for a lot of space on a webpage. You know, like what kind of banner ad can you afford? Where is it going to be placed? What's it going to look like? And I feel like the tangible, physical piece of mail can be a really more memorable way to connect with a customer than just an ad. Do you agree?

Absolutely. And to add to that, I think the one thing that is unique about mail is you can tell a story and you can build your brand and you can connect with a customer. So we do a lot of mailings that are, they're not your traditional postcards, they're letters, long form letters that are printed, folded, stuffed in an envelope and put a stamp on there. So some of our best marketers, that's what they do. And they're writing engaging copy. They're writing, telling the story of how long they've been in the community, what they do, what they guarantee, who they are personally, why they got into the trade. So all of those things are hard to get across in a, in a digital ad. You could probably do it better in a video, but you could do it every day in direct mail. And we believe that direct mail is moving more towards a personalization. Right. So you're going to know the person that you're talking to. You could know how long they lived in their house, when they bought their house, the age of the house. So being able to tell them that story, not in a, a weird, like Big Brother, I'm, you know, know so much information about you, but more of a way that I care about you and I'M trying to help you. And you could do that with direct mail.

Yeah, Yeah, I totally agree. So let's talk about what can contractors expect from direct mail?

You know, when you wrote, when you sent me that question, I was like, ah, you know, that's, that's a tough question because it kind of ties into everything. The one thing that they can expect is it's a marketing tool again, that, that is proven to be successful and it's scalable. So the other thing I think is important to point out, too, and it ties into that first comment, is it takes time and you have to be patient. And you'll hear me say that multiple times. So direct mail is a tool that once you get it working, you can scale it up. Right. So it takes time to build that, that, that equity in your brand so people recognize it and they're willing to take action. You know, the, the magic number in, in marketing is 7. You know, it takes sevens, impressions, really, for someone to feel comfortable, to reach out to you, connect with you in some way. So depending on how many times you're getting in front of those customers, whether it be tv, radio, billboards, digital direct mail is a piece of that puzzle. So we like to say, hey, we have to continue to get in front of people. So, so setting the proper expectation and having patience is key. And that's something that someone needs to expect if they're going to be moving into direct mail. And the, also the other part that I think is important is direct mail can do multiple things. You can build a brand with direct mail, kind of like TV and billboards. However, you can also have a strong call to action that's personalized with direct mail. So someone can either scan a QR code, they can call you, they can go to your website, you can, you know, direct people to a specific landing page. So, you know, I sent this piece of mail and I directed them to this landing page, and you can check the attribution. So, you know, if I mailed out 5,000 pieces, how many pieces went to that landing page? Because those are the only people that know about that.

Yeah. So you're talking about kind of two different levers you could pull here. Brand awareness and then also lead generation. Is there another lever in there as well?

I would say those are, those are the two. The two. And I would say the third one really is, is again, building that relationship. Was this kind of tied into the brand equity, you know, telling that story? Direct mail is a, is a great, great tool for that.

Yeah. And retention, too, right? I know a lot of folks will send, like, happy birthday to your equipment messages, stuff like that, or it's been a while since we've seen you. So do you see a lot of those campaigns utilized as well to keep the customer base?

Absolutely. And a lot of them, too, is, like you said, anniversaries to when they installed their equipment or maybe when they moved in their homes. You know, there's a lot of people that do new mover mailers where they know, you know, when someone moved in a house. Hey, welcome to the neighborhood. We've been in your neighborhood. We service a lot of your neighbors. We'd love to be able to offer you an opportunity to become a maintenance club member, and we'd love to come into your house and show you what we can do for you. Or we have a lot of customers, too, where we know that we installed the equipment in that specific address, but the people moved out, and now they're the new owners, so they're your new customer. So you have that opportunity to, one, follow the person that left that house, and then also you have the opportunity to connect with that individual who lives in that house now. So through data, we can. We can track where people are going, you know, because traditionally, everyone either forwards their mails or lets the person know where they're moving. So it's kind of a. A dual opportunity.

Very, very cool. So, Guy, one of the reasons I was so excited to have you on the show, you. I was introduced to you by Sarah Gerardo, who's our resident marketing and the trades expert here at Service Titan. And she was like, guy knows everything about direct mail. You got to talk to him. And also, you said that you just love helping contractors. Like, you just love being a resource for folks that, you know, for them to just call you up if they have any questions about direct mail. So I was hoping that for the bulk of this episode, we could kind of go into some really, like, tangible tips that folks can use to either inspire their new direct mail campaigns or to maybe tweak their existing ones. What do you think?

Absolutely. And speaking on Sarah, and very thankful for her. I've known her for many years, and I recently watched her interview that you had with her, because I had not seen it. So I watched the last couple days, and it was interesting for me to realize kind of where she was when we originally met. And then now she's with Service Titan. Her and I recently connected where she came from to town here, and I got the opportunity to take her on a tour. We have Two facilities in Northern California. Both of them are, you know, over a hundred thousand square feet and very impressive. And she's kind of like a marketing geek. Like me. I just love, you know, anything and everything related to marketing. And she's very intentful about giving back. Right. Like you had mentioned on her podcast, she's always posted on LinkedIn and Facebook and you can always reach out to her and connect with her. So I would like to extend to your listeners or anyone on this that use me as a resource. Chris Ekasawa is a partner on our team. Ton 10 years worth of knowledge in the trades. Another person you can reach out to, you can email, call us, text us anytime. We want to help you guys grow, help you to achieve your goals. Whether you're using my services or not. Using another direct mail house, feel free to say, hey guy, what do you think about this? What could I tweak? What could I change? So we're big believers when, when they're winning, the customer's winning, we're all winning. So anything and everything that we could do to help with that. And the last thing I wanted to mention because I, I had the opportunity to show Sarah when she came through is we recently installed a brand new printing press. And I don't want to go crazy on, you know, equipment and stuff like that, but we bought this state of the art, you know, it's a multi million dollar piece of press, piece of equipment and it's, we set it up specifically for our contractors. So it runs letters, it runs postcards specific for their layout. And it is an amazing tool that can be highly, highly personalized. It's a variable inkjet web. So every letter, every postcard can be personalized. And, and that's one of the things with mail in the past is everything had to be the same. You know, we had to print 10,000 cars. They all had to be the same. Well, now we're really trying to make it so it's more personalized to the individual because we know that personalized message is going to perform better. So we've made that investment and it's a great tool and we're seeing phenomenal success with it. I know. I did not answer.

No, I didn't ask a question. I was just saying let's go into tips. But I believe that I'm on a podcast right now that I host and we're talking about marketing. And you use the word printing press in like an exciting way. Like it just, it's interesting. It's like the combination of old Technology and new technology like coming together to do some pretty incredible things. So I'm excited about it. You can geek out on equipment all you want.

Yeah. And this, and this piece of equipment is, is truly. It doesn't even look like a printing press. It looks like a, like a rocket. I mean, it's got, it's just incredible. It's just a different, different animal. And we're, we love to have people come through here. And I actually had an H VAC customer come through on Tuesday and they were, I mean, literally blown away. They said, guy, we had no idea that this was even possible when they saw all the we all that we do here. So it's just a good reminder. It's nice to get, you know, get people through and see because we see it every day. Right. But to have someone come through and see it is pretty, pretty amazing.

That's awesome. All right, so let's get into some tips. What are some common mistakes contractors make when they, when launching direct mail campaigns?

So the first thing when I, when I thought about this was most people, when they come to us, they want to get new customers, which makes sense, right? You're going to be doing the marketing efforts. Well, I want some new customers. However, their most valued asset are their existing customers. So what we always recommend is we say, hey, let's go out to your existing customers. And they ask, well, why would I do that? They're already my customers. Well, it's like a seed that's already planted in the ground. We want to nurture it, to get more from it. So for example, just the other day had a guy on the phone. I said, hey, how many customers you have? He says, I have about 5,000. I said, okay, do you have a maintenance club program? He goes, yeah. I said, well, how many people are on your maintenance club? He says, maybe 10%. I was like, wow, there's a lot of opportunity right there. Right? So you want to go out and try and go to a brand new customer or prospect who's never met you before and try and convince them or put something in front of them where they're going to buy from you. Why don't we go to them and offer them an opportunity to become part of your maintenance club? They already know you, you've been in their house, they've already purchased from you. There's a higher likelihood that they're going to, they're going to transact on that. So we try and help people to see that opportunity there. Another thing is we ask them, hey, do you have Multiple services, right? If you're in plumbing, do you do H Vac? Do you do electrical? Let's cross sell your services to those other. To your existing customers. Right? That makes sense. The third thing is ask for referrals, right? I mean, if they know you, they like you, they trust you, more than likely, they're willing to refer you to their friend or their neighbor. So again, the first thing we do with someone, when someone comes in and we see a mistake there, I don't want to talk about my existing customers. I want new customers. So we try and kind of talk them back or give them a mix. Say, hey, let's do half to your existing customers and half to prospects, right? So let's mix it up and then we'll measure it. We'll see which one's performing better for you. The other thing that I would say is people come to us and the first thing they say is, hey, how much is it going to cost per piece and what can I expect for an roi? And that's. That's real difficult to tell because we don't know what their brand equity is, right? We don't know. Do you do any other marketing? Are you doing tv, radio? Are you. Are you out there? And people. I don't think people fully understand the value of a brand and what it takes to build that. And the more equity, the more people that know your brand, it's going to, you know, have a higher recognition and cost cost less to convert someone into a customer. So, you know, I always, I always like to joke and say, hey, you know, melts in your mouth, not in your hand. Everyone thinks Eminem, right? Just do it. That's Nike, right? So you're in good hands with Allstate, right? So all of those have strong brand equity, right? So they paid millions and millions of dollars to have those. So for you to have the expectation that we're going to put a piece of mail out and someone's going to raise their hand and go, yeah, come on in my house. You know, I'm. I would love to have you. It takes a little bit of time to warm that up. So in the market, what we say is kind of best practice is hit your customers, not hit them, mail to them at least four times a year, once a quarter. And best practices for prospecting, Define a prospect list and go out to them every five to six weeks. And we say seven or eight times a year. So pick a group or a budget that you can go out with consistently. You know, it may be only 2000 but build that rapport with those 2000 people and we'll help you define who that best 2000 is by zip code, by home ownership, by the age of the home. You know, we, we're big believers in helping our clients define a zip code or a group of zip codes and then really dominate those. Right. Let's stay strong within those. Let's not try and go out to brand new areas. It's, it's take some that are doing well for you now. Maybe they're close to where you're dispatching from so you're not driving all the way across town and really maximize those.

Incredible tips. Incredible tips. This podcast is for free. I just want to remind everyone that this podcast is free.

That's right.

Seriously, guy, that is, I mean, I think just the simple way you broke down how folks often will say, how much is this going to cost and what's the ROI going to be? I love how you flipped it and it, and you offered, well, what's your budget like? Where are you able to test this out? And let's break up your audience into new prospects to potentially retention campaigns. Right. So I really love that. I think this is really good insight and it's just a testament to how long you've been doing this and where you see success. So I would love to talk, if you could tell me, I know you can't really speak about customers directly because you don't have their permission to use their names. I get that. But I would love it if, if you could tell me about one of your all time favorite direct mail campaigns.

Absolutely. And in talking specifically about customers, and again, completely offer this out to anyone listening or hearing this. If you want to talk to us personally, feel free to give us a call and we could talk more about specific customers. We traditionally don't share any information with anyone that's in your region. Right. We're very respectful of that. If you come into our building, you have to scan in and scan out of the building. We have a high, high level of value and we value security for our customers and their data. So that's, that's important because if someone's given me their customer list, we want them to know first and foremost that that is of the highest priority to them. So I always like to say that. So when, when we talk about a favorite campaign, I thought about this and I thought about one recently and I was just on the phone with a person that was referred to me by an existing customer. So they're in a very tough market. They came to me. And they said, hey guy, we've done direct mail in the past, wasn't successful. We want to try and go back into it. We understand that you guys do a great job with it because you're being referred to us. So we said, okay, we set some expectations and we decided to go out with a mixed campaign. So they said, hey, we have these customers that we serviced one time. They've never come back, they never bought from us again and they're not club members. We'd like to try and convert them to club members. And here's some zip codes that we've had success with and have a lot of customers in. We like to go out to them. So what we did is we put together a basic program and I think they gave for their club program. They said, hey, we'll give you two months free if you sign up for a year. So 12 months for the price of 10 in essence. And then they, they just, they had a, like a tune up offer, a replacement offer. And we just went out with this. The other thing that this customer did and I think what was most important too is we have a digital tool called Next. And what it is, it's, it's a digital tool. It's connected to Facebook, Instagram, Google, Informed delivery. It has eight different platforms in. It doesn't compete with social media. It enhances direct mail. So we take your direct mail and we upload it to this portal and we manage all the ads for you. So it's kind of like a done for you social media experience. And it has a dashboard so you can see everything. So this customer said, hey, we heard that this other guy's doing it, so we want to do whatever he's doing. So they were very fully in. They let us guide them. So and I broke down some numbers. So we basically took a list of. The first list was 7,000, so not huge. And we went out four times to it. They had some success. The next round we took it, we doubled the list, so they had 14,000 and we went out to it eight times. So we're averaging right around 2,000 pieces of drop. And then the third one, the one that we just recently did, we went to 20,000 again, stayed right around 2,500 per drop. And we, we went back and we measured. So for this last drop they had over 130 phone calls, they had 36 new club members and they had over $20,000 in sales. So it's working, but it took some time. The first one wasn't great. The second One is okay, but the third round, really, we saw it pick up. And that's kind of the big message that we like to put out to our customers. You have to, you have to have a plan and a budget that you can be disciplined with and that you can stick with. Because direct mail takes some time, but it's kind of like a water well. Once you start pumping it, it'll keep performing for you as long as you keep investing in it, putting the energy towards it. So in the, in the other numbers I pulled. So on the last campaign, we mailed 20,658 pieces. With our digital, we had over a million ad displays, a hundred, I'm sorry, eleven hundred engagements. And we're able to track four, three hundred people that went to their landing page. So again, all of these, all the digital and all the direct mail are working to elevate the effectiveness of the mail. So it was in the reason why I like it, because this isn't the biggest customer. And they didn't have $100,000 campaign. They were just your, your average guy and a tough market, but they were committed to it. So overall, they went out, they had 20 drops and they mailed 43,000 pieces of mail. So not, not small, but it was just gradual, you know, over probably, I'd say over. I don't even know how long it was. Probably over a six month period.

Wow. I mean, that one, you gave like 20,000 mailers. And then we got 4, 300 visits to landing pages as a result of that. That's almost like a one to four ratio, right?

Yeah.

Am I doing my math right? I'm bad at math, so I always have.

No, no, you, you actually.

Growth areas.

Yeah, there's opportunity.

My language. Yeah, there's opportunity. Okay, that's awesome. And thank you for sharing so candidly about like some of those just, you know, you know those, you know, contractors who are in heavy markets who maybe don't have like these crazy budgets to send really expensive mailers or have a giant list because, like, it shows what you said at the beginning of the show, which is patience and how important patience and dedication and being smart about how much money you can allocate to something like this, like how that can pay off as long as you take the time and you plan it out effectively it sounds.

Yeah. And I think one of the keys too is measuring. Right. Coming back. Okay. We did this campaign. Feed me some data. Let me do some math. Let me see what worked, what didn't work. We can, if they have Coupon codes, we can look and say, hey, this coupon performed a lot better than this one. You know, maybe, maybe we should adjust that or maybe we should re up it again. The other interesting thing with this customer too, is on the third campaign, they said, hey, you know what? We're, we're, we have electrical. We've never promoted it. So we want to put out an electrical offer letting our customers know. So I think they saw that and they go, you know what? There's a great opportunity. Let's try and bring some of our other services with this one.

That's awesome. So, guy, you've been so generous with your time. I've got one more question for you. What tips? And you've already given so many, so if you don't have any more, it's fine for you to say, jackie, I'm tapped out, but I would love what to hear what tips you would give a contractor who's launching their first ever direct mail.

That is a great question. So these are like the foundational things that we try and express to our, our customers when they're going out with mail for the first time. Your number one priority is your list. And if you think about it, it makes complete sense, right? Whatever we're putting this piece out to, it has to be to the right person. So your list is number one. You have to make sure that the company that you're partnering with has a strong data team so they can extract your customers. So we go out and buy a data list, we suppress out your customers, because we wouldn't want to be sending your customers a brand new offer. They're already your customers. So strong data, data is number one. The second most important tip is consistency. And what I mean by that is you have to, once you decide to do mail, you got to stay at it, right? You have to be consistent. So we, we like to say, hey, let's talk about a budget that you can live with. So let's just say it's $5,000 every month for the next three months. We'll work back and say, okay, we can put out this much mail. So let's create a plan specific to that. So when you get your bill, you're like, okay, it's working. It's not working as great as I want, but I'm committed because the consistency and the discipline to stay with it is going to reap rewards in the long run. But you have to stay with it. I would say the other thing, and I know this kind of a buzzword is omnichannel so we believe that all pieces of marketing work together. And we believe in digital, we believe in direct mail, we believe in TV, we believe in Google, AdWords and LSA. All those have to work together. And we believe that mail helps all of those. Because traditionally, I think it's 86% of the people that get any type of advertisement before they pick up a phone, they go to your website. So we know that we're driving people with our mail to your website. Well, that helps the algorithm for Google, so you're going to get recognized more. So, though, all that stuff works. So that's why we've embraced a digital tool. Our next digital. We feel it's a great fit and it helps all those processes. The last thing, and I think one of, again, one of the most important, when you're committed to direct mail and you're doing it to do it right, you have to measure, you have to go back and say, okay, what worked? What didn't work right? We hear roi. One of the other terms is roas return on ad spend. So you can understand, hey, I invested $5,000 or talk about what did I get from it. And we, we want to be very upfront with you. We want to take your data, put it against your mail list, output some information that will help you make a better decision. How many new customers I get? How many club members did I get? What was the average cost to acquire a new customer? What was my average ticket for my sales during that period? So the more granular we could get with that information is going to help us moving forward. And we know that not everyone has a ton of time to sit there and figure all this out. That's our job. That's what a good partner should do, and that's what your direct mail house printer should be doing for you. And if they're not, maybe you can encourage them and ask them and say, hey, how could, how do I get these numbers right? I heard they're available. Let's work together to make it happen. And like I said, I'd be happy to share. We have dashboard reports, we call them impact reports. Well, we'll take the data, we'll push it through, and we'll send it out to our customer. I could, I could I have some of those that are generic, where I pull out the customer's name and so they could see exactly what that would look like. So if someone wants to reach out to me, you know, I'm sure you're going to. Well, my email is right there on my name I don't know if they can see that, but they can email me.

But it is guy msi mail.net so that's guy g u y@msi mail.net and.

I'd be happy to give out my cell phone number too, as well. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.

No, no.

So my. My direct cell phone number you can call or text me anytime is 916-769-5200. Again, 916-769-5800. And you can find us on the Internet@msimail.net Guy, thank you so much.

I'm going to ask you one more question, which we can cut out if this does not work for you. So I'm glad we had that part, but if it works, tell me a bit about what experience you've had with Marketing Pro Direct Mail.

So that's an interesting question, and I'll answer it and you can decide if you want to. Want to cut it out. So the Marketing Pro tool with direct mail that Sarah has been a big part of designing, I think is a phenomenal tool. And we're in the process of partnering with Service Titan to become the fulfillment side of that. So that mail would. Would come through us and we would actually print and mail it on behalf of your customers. In addition to that, if someone wants to learn more about direct mail, I've been invited to come and attend the marketing summit that's coming up in Utah next month, July 20th and 21st. I'll be speaking, I think, twice at that, talking specifically about direct mail. I'll be there for the two days. I'll have samples with me to hand out. So if anyone's interested in learning more about direct mail, I know Ara from your guys's company will be. I'll be co presenting with him. So he'll be talking more specifically about the direct mail piece that's integrated into Service Titan and how they can utilize that. So I'm excited. I think it's fantastic.

Awesome. I'm gonna see if we can get this episode out before then. But, Guy, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it and really appreciate your partnership.

No, absolutely. I appreciate you guys and all that you're doing. I'm a big fan and a big supporter of Service Titan and would love to help and continue to partner with you guys.