Life After Live Events: How to Turn Post-Conference Energy into Real Profits | Podcast Ep. 297

Hello and welcome to Toolbox for the Trades. I'm Amanda Salvatore. Here's the scenario. You just got back from a conference. Your notebook is full, your brain is buzzing with ideas, and you've got a list of new contacts. And then Monday hits. The trucks need to roll out, the phones are ringing, and the notebook gets pushed to the side. Sound familiar? Today, Ellen Rohr, co-founder of ZoomDrain and brand ambassador for ServiceTitan, joins me as we break down how to turn those conference takeaways into real projects and why networking doesn't have to feel like work. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Ellen Rohr, you are the co-founder of ZoomDrain and brand ambassador for ServiceTitan, and you're joining us today to discuss how you can translate conference notes and new contacts into workable projects and real relationships. Welcome to Toolbox for the Trades. Yay! Hi, Amanda. Hello, bring in the energy. I am absolutely tickled pink that you are on the podcast today. You bring so much joy, so much energy, and so much enthusiasm. So I'm really excited to get into this specific topic with you today about conferences and translating all of those notes in that notebook into actionable items. But as you know, first and foremost, we always like to start off with a little icebreaker here on Toolbox for the Trades. This one is really just for me, so I know, but what's the best conference swag you've ever received?

I'm still bitter about this because I didn't receive it. I saw others with it. So sometimes you have to move fast on swag. And it was these crossover bags that ServiceTitan had. Like you could wear it as a fanny pack and I loves me a fanny pack. But in Australia, you're supposed to call it a bum bag, by the way. Just, oh, pro tip.

Oh no. Oh no.

But they were really cool. They had the ServiceTitan logo on them and they're really nicely made and I missed them. So I'm in search of the ServiceTitan fanny pack or crossover bag. And I will say I always like a good die-cut sticker because my husband Hot Rod collects them on his toolbox. So I like me a die-cut sticker. What about you?

I do love a sticker. I am a big notebook sticker kind of person. I'm trying to think about if there's like a water bottle. I always need a water bottle.

You know, because you just left it on the plane. So there you go. Exactly.

Always. Yeah, I'm always leaving them off somewhere. But we are always looking for great ideas for our podcast booth at Ignite and Pantheon. So, Fannie Fives.

I know there's a great idea cooking at the podcast booth. I've got inside scoop on that. Jackie Aubel has a great idea. So you definitely want to stop by the podcast booth and sign up for a podcast and get some swag.

This is so amazing. This episode is being released the week of Pantheon at Ignite. And I thought, what a great opportunity for once you're back on the plane, you're in your truck, you're driving home after the event, you need to listen to something. And here we are to help. And what a great opportunity to think of all that you can actually accomplish after an event. It's so overwhelming. I would love to, before we get into this, I get this is a runaway train already. Can you feel it? It's already— I'm just— it's just 2 gals chatting. I apologize for those who are—

Well, we're keeping the magic going, though, putting ourselves in this moment. If you're not, if you're listening while you're at Service Titan Pantheon, we've got great tips. But if you've already gone home, you're on your way and it went like a freight train fast. past you because doesn't that always happen? Like you were gonna meet this person and do all this and it's over. It goes fast. So many people, so much happening, and it's so awesome.

It's the best.

Pantheon is my favorite, and I've been to 100,000 conferences in my long life. So yeah, Pantheon's the best. It really is.

I love that. Well, I have to ask, what makes it so special?

People who don't go to any conferences go to Pantheon. Like, you will see, you will see the unicorns at Pantheon, you know, folks that you met a million years ago or, you know, up-and-comers in the industry who you're like, oh, you've seen them on podcasts. Like, it really has. I think it's just the best place to make friends and to have fun in the industry. And you'll be so inspired. We're going to hear from on the main stage from all the big guns. And you'll be— if you miss something, it all gets recorded. So that might go on your list too. Doesn't come out right away, but pay attention to your, your ServiceTitan account and you'll get word that they're here, all the recordings.

So let's get into it. You just got back from a conference. You have this notebook. It's full of ideas. Where do most leaders go wrong in the first week?

Well, first off, if you took notes, you are so ahead of the game. Take a minute. Take notes. I was just watching Tommy Mello do his podcast and he's got his glasses on. He's 40 now. And he's writing like everything. He takes more notes than anybody. I was inspired again, write stuff down. We're too old to remember anything. So keep a notebook with you. It could be your phone. Like you can take notes on your phone if you'd rather, or a reMarkable or just pen and paper, but take a lot of notes and also insist that your team members do too. If they've taken notes, it makes it easier for y'all to compare, like who, who, what hit. Who during the course of the conference. So taking notes is a big win already. Now, here's an idea. Go back to your office. Oh, if you took some team members, it's so helpful because when you go back to your office, you got to communicate what you learned, what you saw, what you experienced, what you want to do. So you're going to have a meeting and you're going to debrief. I would, if you had other team members, debrief with those folks too, because now you're all on this high-flying disc for a minute and you can relate to each other. You're going to blow away the rest of your team for a hot minute. So if you and the team members who went to Pantheon get together and make one long list of all those things that you said you wanted to do and get to do. Here's the problem. When you have a notebook, it's all yours. So this is why making sure that list becomes public, either Through Basecamp or Monday or Asana or one of those list-making apps. Or you can go all old school and put the flip chart papers on the wall and just summarize all the things that you want to do on those pages. A download of all the ideas. That's, that's a good step. And then you can see there's some redundancies. You don't have to repeat them. There might be some nuances worth adding and repeating. But now we have what Al Levy calls the all projects list. If you have one already, you're going to add to it or refine your all projects list. And this is just a lengthy list of all the projects that you want to get done over the course of your life. Could be 150 items long. So Amanda, what could go wrong now? We got 200,000 ideas up there.

So how do you break down a big list of conference takeaways into something workable? How do you start chipping away at it?

This is like, this is the obsession of my career right now. Like, you know, I'm all about the money. We get the score and then how do we change the score? Well, we need to engage projects. We got to get stuff done. And my mama didn't teach me how to do that. Most people don't know how. To get a project done. So it takes edumacation, as Homer Simpson says, on how projects are done and managed. And I've spent a lot of time, energy, and money learning some skills. So let me share a bit of what I've learned. You can do this any way that serves you, but there are some basics of project management that can help a brother or sister out. So let's dig into that. Okay.

Yeah, so absolutely. We have this idea, so there's to-do lists, there's projects. What's the actual difference and what does that look like in practice?

Yeah, that's such a good question. A to-do is a one-off and a to-do might just be yours. Doesn't need to go on the project list. So for instance, a to-do is call your mother and a project is to throw your mother a 65th birthday party. Okay. So a project is just something with a lot of to-dos in it. Or as one of my friends told me, John Young said, it's an engineering problem. It has a lot of variables. That's a project. It's all it is. It's just packed together in order to get that outcome that we desire by doing that project. We are going to have to break it down. So projects are things that have to-dos or tasks. loaded up in them. And those projects hopefully are going to move a statistic, help us increase sales, profits, cash, help us teach our team members better skills that'll help them be more successful, help us get a rock out of the road, a problem solved that's keeping us from achieving sales, profits, and cash. So there should be a point to the project. Which we'll get into in just a second. But overall, first off, without editing, without critique, we're gonna dump all of them on these charts and have all of our projects lined up. And then we're gonna decide on just a few that we're gonna focus on. Now, there are lots of ways to learn how to do projects. A very sophisticated path to project management is called EOS, Entrepreneurial Operating Systems. A lot of our Service Titan companies use it. A lot of bigger companies use it because they know they got to get some arms around these projects, figure out who's doing what, et cetera. The book Traction by Gino Wickman is the introduction to EOS. And then there's lots of books and lots of help out there for implementing EOS at your company. That in itself is a project and it's a beefy one. So you could go all the way with EOS, or if you're on EOS, it's time to Get back on the wagon, tighten up your meetings, have a meeting to get back on the saddle. Sometimes we drift. An easy way to get projects done, I always go old school. I go easy if I can. My buddy Al Levy wrote The 7 Power Contractor, and in that skinny book, he's got 6 pages devoted to planning power. And I'm going to describe the basics of planning power because within EOS, within any formal project management system, you're going to have these basics. So the way Al does it, the way he taught me, and even though I love EOS, I love when companies use formal project management systems, you can start today with Al's approach and it'll get you very, very far. So you make the big list of all projects, and then Al has you select your top 30. Now you can select the top 30, or you could go directly to the top 5. Maybe you don't even have 30. Chances are that list will get longer and longer as you get into this. But if you don't have 30, don't worry about it. You're going to move to your top 5. Top 5, no more than 5 projects can be energized at a time. This is so exciting because think of what's already happened. Now you're going to have a meeting with the whole team or with departments, and you're going to show them the big list and you're going to ask folks to contribute to the big list. This is what we found at Pantheon. We want to do these things. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. We can't do it all at once, but we can start chipping away at it. And if you have an idea that's going to solve a problem or capitalize on an opportunity, put your idea up there. This is where a manual list can be really helpful. If it's on Asana, your service techs may not be on it. See where I'm going? Old school is fine. Now, I guarantee someone is going to put Amanda needs to get a life as a project, and you're just going to simply say, noted, put a star next to it or whatever. I mean— They're not wrong.

They're not wrong.

Yeah, they're not wrong. And they're just breaking your shoes, which is fine, because one of the things that happens when you come back all fired up from Pantheon or other great events is that Your team, some of them are just waiting for you to settle down. Like it'll all be going back to normal soon. This energy is going to wear off and nothing will change and we'll be fine. But you want things to change and you want to move in a positive direction for everybody. So stick with it and just take it like a duck. If somebody is giving you some, a hard time or they put up something ridiculous, we need a blimp. And well, maybe we could get a blimp. Why not put it on the list? So you put all those things on and you invite folks to take a look at it, and you might even ask their vote or opinion as to what would be a top project. Now, Al says pick the first 30 if you've got a super long list, because Al maintains this. He is so smart. Listen to this. He maintains that you could probably get 30 beefy projects done in a year. And what would your company look like if 30 of these things— doesn't it just give you goosebumps?

Yeah.

If 30— if a year from now this work was behind us, what would the company look like? So that's kind of sexy, right? But then the meat and potatoes is going to come down. We can't do all of this at once. So let's pick 5. And I generally look at it like this. Pick a financial one. Like clean up the scorecards, get to a known financial position, implement ServiceTitan is a beefy project. Maybe you'll only have 3 top projects, or implementing EOS is a beefy project. And then put an easy one in there. We want to create a procedure for starting an install job. So whatever that is, like we go to a job, we're a hot mess, we waste a lot of time. One of the techs says, why don't we just have like a standard operating procedure? And you're like, great idea. So that one gets put to the top 5. It will solve a problem, a lot of wasted time. It's a big deal what a project like that could do, but it's also one you could probably click off fairly, fairly quickly because what we want to see is progress. Wouldn't it be cool if we got something done around here?

Yes. I love this idea of something simple. I think it's motivating. It's satisfying to complete that project and it's going to motivate you to complete the bigger projects. It's going to inspire you and get you excited.

Yeah. Okay. So like once upon a time, Al Levy worked with Tommy Mello and taught him this system. They had their top 5 projects and like, Al, that's what he did. Now, I just saw a reel of Tommy talking about using Claude to help him with projects. And I flashed on this idea that he knows how to run a project because he did it old school for starters. Now he can escalate a project by using Claude to help him go through steps of delegation and set up the meetings and assign the responsibilities and the due dates. Like all of those are elements of getting a project done that he learned old school. So yes, AI can help with everything, but it's okay to slow down a minute and pull out the flip charts. And just catch people up before you go 100 miles an hour with AI. Just a thought. I mean, this is from an older person, but does that resonate with you?

Absolutely. I think AI is a tool and not the solution. So whatever you're putting into AI, that's what it's going to give you back. So if you don't have that experience, relying on AI might not necessarily be the smartest choice. Really kind of honing in on what your project looks like and setting up those goals first and then having AI enhance, I think, is the way to go.

So good. So well said. So let's see, let's— where we are on the list. We got the big list. Maybe we got a top 30 and now we pick a top 5 and maybe there's a financial one, probably a sales one, sales training, sales system, sales convention. A marketing one would be another one, a people one, as far as like, do we need to improve our operations to make things easier for our team members? So try and mix it up a little bit. No more than 5 at one time are going to get the status of top projects. In EOS, they call these rocks or something you're going to hit. And this can get a little confusing because there's going to be a stat assigned with this project. Like, A known financial position. That means that we can run our balance sheet and profit and loss once a week, that they're pretty darn good, and that they're right, you know, they're accurate or pretty accurate, and that we understand them. And then once a month we do a close by the 10th of the following month. Tick tock, the game is locked. Okay, so that's like, then we know that it's done, but now we have to back up. Like, how would one get there? That's the to-dos. Those are all those to-dos that are baked into a project. So once we get to that project, as Al Levy recommends, for each of those projects that have been greenlit, we're going to go through the steps of delegation. And we do that with a meeting. Now, meetings have a bad rap. Oh, great. Another meeting. Good. I'll get my email caught up while I'm at the meeting. Right. So the problem is that Your meetings are just bad and they're not focused on— that's why you hate them. And again, like, who taught you how to run a meeting? You need to learn these skills and they're going to be bad until you start to make them a little better. And then every now and then you'll crush it. So, you know, that's what we're looking for is to make this better. So if we had meetings on those projects and say all we talked about at that project was going to be, let's take the example of the pre-job checklist. That's the topic of this meeting is the pre-job checklist. And at that first meeting, you invite someone to join you for this meeting. Like everything that's on this list is yours until you get somebody else involved. And listen, you're never going to grow your business if you're doing everything. We all know this. Well, this is a good Practical tip for getting somebody else in the game. Let's have somebody else run the project and you're going to hold their beer. You're going to help them. All right. So let's say Suzette is the technician who came up with the idea that we want to have a checklist before we start a job. And who's the most likely person to want to get this job done? Suzette. Well, let's ask her to play. So she put the idea on the list. But she probably doesn't know how to do it, so let's figure it out. But Suzette, I need somebody to drive it. Could I count on you? And could we do it together until we both get better at this? Okay, great. So now you and Suzette have a meeting, and at this meeting you go through what Al calls the steps of delegation, but they're really the journalistic questions. What are we doing? We're going to create a checklist before we go on the job. Why are we doing that? So we're not such a hot mess on the job. So we don't have to go back to the office for parts. Like, you come up with good reasons why, because otherwise, bail, right? So what are we doing and why? All right, who's going to be in charge? Suzette, are you in? Yeah. And I won't let you fail on my watch. We're going to figure it out together. This is a doable project. Fair enough? You pinky swear, you and Suzette. But Suzette is going to lead and you're going to help this person win. It makes me cry talking about it. Like, wouldn't that be nice?

What I love about this specifically is that you are not just handing off tasks that you don't wanna deal with. You're not just, you do this, you do that. When you hear delegate, that's often what you think of. But really what it is, is supporting an initiative that one of your team members is spearheading.

And making it safe to fail.

And providing that support.

Yeah. Like, if we fail, we'll learn something that didn't work, but we're going to figure it out. This is a doable task. It's not an impossible thing, right? We'll figure it out. And what you described too, we often abdicate, not delegate. And then you do it. And then they come back with either having done nothing because they don't know how, or done something and you don't like it. And now everybody hates each other. Like, that happens a lot. So, okay, now Suzette knows you're going to be there. You're going to meet with Suzette and we're going to get started and then we're going to help each other make this happen. All right, then you go. So we have the what, why, and we have the who. By when? Name a number. And this becomes name that tune. Suzette, feeling it, feeling it, says, I'll have it to you tomorrow morning. And you go, well, we haven't had it for 20 years, so you don't have to have it tomorrow morning.

You got time.

Slow your roll. How about 2 weeks? Okay. Like, again, usually a team member will give— add pressure. This is not an emergency. We work in an emergency-based business. Sure, we want to have some speed to action and some people move faster than others. All of it's great. I don't mean to slow her down. Make it a week. Probably within a week. Are you good? Okay. Or if she says a day, Make it a week. Like, give her some more breathing room. All right. So we've got what, why, who, by when. What kind of time, energy, and resources am I going to give you? We can't expect Suzette to do it on Labor Day, right? It's a day off if she has the day off or on the weekend or in her spare time, whatever that means. You're going to pay Suzette to get this project done. So this is going to be work time. Can you imagine? Like, but we think this is going to suddenly— where is she going to find the time? Especially as a service technician, you're going to have to carve out that time. So let's say she has Thursday, 2 hours until it's done. Tuesday and Thursday, 2 hours. Tell dispatch, whatever, we get it figured out. So now she has some time. Who else would you like? So when we get to who, she could even say to Sue, who else? Would you like to have help you? Let's bring in Ishmael. We'll have Ishmael help her. Okay, so now we got a team on it. And now the next question. So who, what, all right, what are we doing? Why are we doing it? Who's doing it? It's Suzette and Ishmael is the sidekick. And by when? And when are you gonna work on it? What kind of time, money, and energy do you need? Really just time. Just time on this one. And then the last question is, how? How are you going to do it? And so at that very first meeting, you could superthink, you could brainstorm with Suzette. But here's what I recommend you don't do. Tell her how to do it. What if you just said, I don't know, what do you think? Or how about you and I both write down— let's get Ishmael in here. The 3 of us will write down 10 ways we could solve this problem. And Amanda, as I share this and you think about it, just for reals, let me put you on the spot.

Oh, great.

What's something Suzette and Ishmael could do that would move this project ahead?

Ooh. Oh my gosh, Ellen, you're putting me on the spot. Let's say they create a working list of how to do research for the project.

Great. So we could ask someone else how they've done it. Okay.

Tap into our network, see what they're doing at their shop. Maybe.

Go visit their shop.

Yeah.

Okay. Do you see, like, it could be solved very quickly. Maybe we could just ask Bob for his checklist. Maybe we could Claude it and try it. And now it's got to get documented and it's got to get trained. So as we have this conversation, we end up with, well, how will we know that this project is done? What's the scope of the project? How much do we expect from these folks? And then have them bring their best work to the next meeting. And we could maybe hammer that out. Maybe we need one more work. Should we have a training about it? Does everybody know how to do these steps? Maybe we could do a little Loom video and show that. And where would all this stuff get stashed? In Google Drive? Are we going to lose it? Do you see? That's how it gets a little bigger.

Yes.

It got simple and then it got a little bigger. But isn't that— doesn't all of that sound workable?

Absolutely. What I love about this philosophy on taking a to-do list and really making it manageable, or a project rather, right, is that these items hold people accountable. Saying, how are you going to do it? Having a workable due date for it, having that accountability with including more than just one person on the project. These are all opportunities for follow-through.

Well, and let me tweak that a little because I just learned something. And I love when I hear a word that I like better. And I was listening to Keith Mercurio the other day and he said he doesn't like the word accountable. Just the word accountable brings up going to the principal, getting in trouble, you know? And I thought, yeah, it kind of does for me too. And he said, What if we substituted the word responsible? Would you be responsible for that? That sounds a lot more positive. So again, like, as we do this, could we question how we usually come down with these mandates and do this? And how come you did it this way? Like, what if we just let them think and show off that, just be responsible for coming up with something. And I promise you, we'll have a step forward and we maybe even learn something that isn't going to work. Right. Right? Leave them safe to fail. But it hasn't been done for 20 years, and we may solve a really big problem. Yeah. This is so exciting. Now, look at the rest of the team. They see now Ishmael and Suzette are working on a project, and it's being respected. And what are they doing? And that's kind of cool. Maybe even a little resentful. How come I'm not asked to work on a project? All of that could come up. Somebody has a great idea, and there are great ideas on that all projects list. Tell people when it goes on the all projects list, it's going to mold there. It's going to rot there until it moves to the top 30 or the top 5. It's not going to happen. But you've been heard and it's a good idea. And you might need to champion that idea or look for ways that if we don't move that to the top 5, we're going to really feel it.

Yeah.

You see where I'm going? So now we get Project champions developing. Good news. The checklist for starting the job is done. We have room for a new one. Should we vote? Should we, like, you have to present your ideas? I mean, you as the cheese, as the owner, the president, you would be the one to make the final call. Like, Amanda Get a Life is not making it to the top 5. Sorry. She's going to go without a life for another— she's molding over there.

You know what? Maybe 2028. Maybe 2028. We'll address it. Finally get there. Finally get there.

But you can see, like, nobody taught us how to do projects. And this is why I'm so grateful for Al Levy for his 6 pages of planning power. Gino Wickman, like this idea that we get inspired at Pantheon, but it's implementation that will make all the difference. Let's get some stuff done, get a reputation. of being someone who gets stuff done in spite of the odds, in spite of the politics, in spite of the bureaucracy, just to get some stuff done. The mundane work of leadership is project management. That's how you do it. You get inspired, you get a vision, you're marching in the same direction. But who's going to come with you is everything about getting a project done.

Yeah, there's so many things.

No fluffing at all.

Yeah, it— no, absolutely not. And I think that's where you go to a conference for maybe the first time, you come back, you're so excited, but now what? Now what? And that must be an incredibly overwhelming feeling, realizing that you spent all this time, all this money to walk away for a few days from your business and then have to come back with all of this great stuff to do, but it's all about that implementation of it and making sure that you're, you're setting your projects up so you can bring back what you, what you want, bring back all of that great stuff that you have in your notebook.

You know, getting like, what do we want to do? Like, maybe you're even thinking as you're listening to this, well, I don't even know that I'm clear on what I want. A really cool project would be An executive retreat, a key team members retreat. Now, I happen to have written a book about it called The Weekend Biz Plan. And the idea of it was like just getting to this point in a conversation when, oh, I don't really know where we're going. I don't know. I don't have my budget set. I don't have my goals for next year. And maybe, so maybe a retreat is one of the top 5. And we come out of that retreat with some metrics, with some game, you know, with some philosophy, some values, and that inspires us or then informs the selection of those top projects.

For this retreat, would you suggest doing it before an event like Pantheon and Ignite, or is this a separate project?

Oh, I love that. I say it's better done than not done whenever you do it, and to have it on a regular basis. Now, in EOS, in that particular formal process for getting things done, they— it's very robust, and they do have you go through a yearly quarterly cadence of meetings and retreats to make sure that you're picking the rocks and the projects that are going to help you move in the direction of those rocks. And it's very formal, but it's always the same stuff. Like, where are you going? What's the point on the horizon? And then lists and then behaviors.

I love it. All right. Before we move on to the next facet of the conference world networking. Do you have any more advice about project management and how to achieve that?

My friend Steve Sola told me once, you're going to, you're going to suck at something before you're good at something. So like, this is a learning experience. You're not going to be great at it right away. But this is where I started with realizing there had to be a better way. When we were kids, there were 5 kids in my family, my mom would say, I need all of you all day Saturday to clean the house. And we would hate this so much and would line up and she would give us some micro task to do, like take this can of Pledge and this rag and go do that table. And then you'd report back in. And I remember thinking, if I could just get a list of things that I could do and then be done and See ya, bye on this Saturday. But my mom didn't know how to do a project like that. What she did know was to micromanage. She knew how to clean. She was really good at it, but it wasn't effective in terms of getting the house clean or having any kind of happy employees.

There you go.

So you don't have to micromanage and you can fail until you get better at this. But if you work on it, your project management skills are going to improve. And so that's my love and encouragement and no judgment here.

Incredible. Let's get to networking. So you have your notebook, it's all filled up, but also you have met so many incredible people while at this conference. What does functional networking look like after a conference beyond following someone on LinkedIn and giving a thumbs up on a post?

Yeah, uh, well, first off, I have a really— like, it's why mine is called One Tap Connect, and it's an app that has like all my contact info on it. And then you can either touch your phones or you can share an app like this. I don't believe in business cards anymore. I've never once in my whole life put the information on a business card. So try and get like, use technology to make it a little easier to get in touch with them. And then if you take a picture with them and you make that their profile picture, you'll remember who they are. That can help. That's helped me a lot. I mean, I still fail on this one, but I've gotten so much better. Like, who's this guy? And then you take a hold of your badge, like, you know, just let me— the company. And they might not have the contact information you gave them. That'll help you also have a clue as to who they are. It's best to change— exchange information on the phone. But then I will, I will block down like an hour where I'll just say, look at my contacts or, you know, love on people. They'll just be some thing right there. And then I'll go to my list of contacts or go through my pictures and I'll just try and remember something. Now, Tommy, our boy Tommy Mello, just had a big win in his business and that was highly publicized. And I was on a webinar today and we were talking about Tommy and the host on the webinar put up a picture of Tommy and I took a picture of the webinar of Tommy and I sent it to Tommy and Bree. Just because it was a lovely thing. Like, it was just a chance to say, you are really cool. And we were talking about you and just wanted you to know that. So like finding little ways, or if their name comes up or someone you know knows them. The guy who started Send Out Cards, his name is Jordan. He calls it a prompting. Like when you're prompted to act on the prompt. You know who would love this is Jackie Aubel. So I'm going to send her a picture of that. You know what I mean? She would. I know she would love it.

She would.

hear what music you're into, what adventures you're going on or whatever. And if I think of her, I try to remember to send some love. Or someone mentions that they really did— like Tom Howard comes up a lot. He's a really amazing guy in so many ways. Kerri Kelch, everywhere I turn, I'm seeing her right now. And she's helping a lot of women own their power, own their businesses. And if I see her, I say, I just saw you. Or Just a way to let them know that I appreciate what you're doing in the world. It doesn't have to be about a sale. It doesn't have to be about a sales pitch. It's all about making friends. In fact, I've quit using the words network and mentors. Mentors, I just like, bleh, because a mentor implies seniority.

Mm-hmm.

You're better than me, or I'm better than you, or like, could we just be friends? You just don't know where you're going to end up, what tables you'll be sitting at, what job you're going to have. I'm all about now using the word friend.

Yeah, I hear that.

Yeah. Does that make sense?

Absolutely. You're more likely to help your friend than some random person that you met a couple of months ago.

Or network has so much pressure.

Yeah. Networking. Kind of, you know, I think that unfortunately it may feel a little icky to people because ultimately you want to connect and I'll— I wanna help you as much as you wanna help me. I wanna celebrate your wins as much as you wanna celebrate my wins. And it sounds to me like what you're doing is finding opportunities to celebrate others' wins and using that as an opportunity to connect. And celebrate them.

Celebrate. What a great word.

Yeah.

Let me, let me, let me comment on a word you used. You said it feels icky. Do you have an experience of networking that felt icky? It seems like you do.

Absolutely.

Okay. All right. That word caught my attention.

Yeah, it can feel a little icky. I was in the entertainment industry for a very long time, and I actually took a class on networking and goal setting. And one of the suggestions that they gave us, and I think this was so smart, is that when you're at a party or even maybe at a conference, you can talk about, especially if it's, it's after hours, we're having a drink, that's a great opportunity to say something that you're personally doing for yourself. Maybe it's a vacation, maybe it's about a home project that you're doing, something personal, and then also mention something In the conversation about your business and maybe some, a hardship that you're trying to figure out so that you're able to balance something personal, something that you would reveal in a friendship, something that you would talk about with a friend. And then also, we're all together in this. We're all business owners. You can mention your business, but being able to mention something personal to yourself. Really opens up others and allows them to kind of see into the person you are and connect with you on a different level than just about the business, which makes it feel more about developing a relationship as opposed to networking.

That's really beautiful. Yeah. And Howard Parchard, my friend, he uses this line a lot. He says, well, maybe let's go, let's go out to lunch. Let's get on the phone. Maybe we can, maybe we can help each other. Maybe we can help each other. Who knows? And, you know, we're giving and getting. Just let's see where this goes is really fun. And I think also too, when you're starstruck from, by some people, they are not immune to a kindness or a gesture or something that you saw that you thought reminded you of them or a compliment. These things we don't outgrow. And so don't be shy. Another thing is I like to go to a shop. I love to visit a shop. Khadijah J had— I told her I'd come visit her shop when I met her 2 years ago. And it's been bothering me that I have not gotten there because I really wanted to see her shop. She and her brother Odari own this generational business in Atlanta, really supportive of the Black community. And I'm like, girl, I gotta get there. And I went week before last and had the best time. They took such good care of me and their shop is amazing and they, so much history and pride and both of them are just so smart. And we dug into numbers and what they're doing with their team. And I, it was just, it was great. Nothing like a shop tour. And you learn so much about business. You'll also learn nobody's doing it all right. But you can see with clear eyes. So your thoughts on someone's business are really helpful because sometimes when we're in the middle of it, we can't see it. But you have a friend who sees all the good things that you're doing and can make a suggestion about something that they tried in their business that was effective that you might be interested in. And here's the form that I used or how we got some buy-in on this particular project or what kind of projects we have going on at our shop. So you've got this connection, but then in real life, you could put your board here, you could stage the equipment there. Being on site at a shop, you learn so, so much. It's so much fun.

Oh, I believe it.

So, and I've never been rejected for a shop tour. I've never had someone say—

Who would reject you? You know what I mean?

Well,

you could come, you could come hang out in my shop anytime.

Well, not everybody loves me, but I have not been, I have not had someone say, don't come. Like, Usually someone's like, okay, I'm going to clean up before I come. And I encourage that. Okay, get ready. Like, get it shiny. Isn't that nice when you have a party? Your house looks great.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

I love this idea. I'm sure that as soon as you walk into the shop, you're taking notice of where things are. How even when you walk into a space, how does it feel? What's the vibe? Right.

And that definitely tells a lot. It does.

Yeah. It tells a lot about company culture and how happy people are. Is it highly stressful? Is it so relaxed? That's something I'm looking for. There's so much more that you can understand just by being physically in the space. So I wanna get to conversation between you and someone you may have networked, a friend.

Yes.

You say to give a phone call. For a more nuanced conversation versus a text or an email. What constitutes a phone call? Because I know in, in society now, text messages are kind of where it's at. This is how we're communicating. We don't want to bother you. We know you're busy, and a phone call can kind of feel a little bit more intrusive. So how do you navigate that? What constitutes a call?

I text first. I'll text first. Hey, it's Ellen. I might resend my card or whatever. It's Ellen. I saw you at Pantheon and I— here's a really great one. Here's a really great one. If you asked someone, oh, so good. If you asked for someone's advice, you meet Ken Goodridge, larger than life. You meet Ken Goodridge and you ask for his counsel and he shares something with you and you text him to say, I tried what you suggested. And here's what happened. He will love it. He will love it. Do you have time? And I will often say, do you have time to break it down? 3 minutes. Let me know when you're available. Just something like that. And he can say yes or no. He's a busy guy and I'm putting a timeframe on it and he might even set the timer. That's fine. You have something that you want to share and get feedback on or love to give him or whatever. Have an intention for that call. And bring it in in under 3 minutes. And then maybe, you know, you can say it's been 3 minutes and he may decide to continue the phone call, but you have that, you know, you're sending them some love. And I will text first before I just call because they don't know your number. It might not come up. It might not work. So, but a text seems to, they can ignore your text. Also, if I really want to get ahold of someone, I will reach out 5 times. You know why? Here's a, it's a great story about this. I've had a million jobs. I have had a million jobs. I started working as a 14-year-old and I always had 2 or 3. One year I had 7 W-2s. I just, I would job hop. If I wanted to learn something, I'd get a job, I'd move. I was just a working girl. And I once wanted, I wanted to learn how to sail. So I went into this marina when I was staying in Ocean City, New Jersey for the summer, went into the marina and I said, I'd like to work here. I'm like, 19, I think. And he goes, do you have any sailing experience? Nope. Have you ever been on a boat? I've never been on a boat. And he goes, well, listen, I got nothing. So I came back Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. He hired me because he said, at least you'll show up. Girl, girl, dedicated. I learned how to sail. I learned how to merchandise. I learned how to sail a Sunfish and a windsurfer and be a crew member on a catamaran, on a Hobie Cat. I learned I got everything I want. So like, if you're looking for, Zig Ziglar says, you can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want. And so like that idea of like, what did he want? He wanted me to work in the shop. I didn't want to work in the shop, but I was good at the shop so that I could escape out onto the dock. Like, you know, we just, we found it out. Yeah. Tevis Wernickeff, I still love him. To this day. That was like 50 years ago.

Gosh. I think I just have to— you're a delight. Like, that's— to me, that's so cool.

You are too.

We love each other. You're so cool. My next life, I'm coming back as Ellen DeGeneres. We're theater kids.

We're both theater kids. I think we have that in common.

Yeah, it's a vibe. It's a vibe. It's definitely— you've got it. You've got the energy. Ellen, this has been such an incredibly informative conversation. an inspiring conversation. I hope those who are listening feel excited about getting back into the shop, getting back to their employees, and hit the ground running. Before we go, what are your final thoughts on making the most of a conference once you return to your crew?

Hey, I think we went over a lot of good stuff here, and I would just let yourself— you know, grace is a word I'm trying to Embrace more these days too. Give yourself a little grace. If you don't get the list done today, get back on the wagon and start it tomorrow. Put time on the calendar. I think that for me, like my calendar, people laugh at my calendar. It is packed, but everything I want to do takes time. So if I don't put it on the calendar, if it's just on a list somewhere, it'll mold there. So that's the idea of that. That top 5 ends up becoming something that has meetings on your calendar because it's going to require time. to get things done. So give yourself a little grace, get back on the wagon once a week, map out those, you know, what you have to do, time spent with family, funds, health, all that. And then those meeting times that you're gonna hold to so that you can get some stuff done. Production increases morale. You and your team are gonna feel better as you knock some of those things off. So let that inspire you and give yourself some grace if you fall off the wagon. Get Right back on.

Ellen Rohr, incredible advice yet again. Thank you for coming on Toolbox for the Trade.

You ask me anytime. Call last minute, I'm coming on.

I'll, I'll hold you to it.

Yay.