Tips for Exceptional Customer Service w/ Lauren Vahey | Podcast Ep 39 | Toolbox for the Trades

I really think that clarity really is the name of the game here and that any position will have unlimited success as long as they know what's in their boundaries.

You're listening to Toolbox for the Trades, brought to you by Servicetitan, a podcast for top service professionals where we interview leaders for their best tips and tricks of the trades. Learn how industry trailblazers stay ahead of the competition and how you too can be at the forefront of an industry. Let's jump in.

Hello, contractors, and welcome to the Toolbox for the Trades. Today's guest is Lauren Vahey, director of Customer experience at Nicholson Plumbing, Heating and Air Conditioning in Boston. Lauren is a total rockstar. In just four years, she's grown from a CSR to a key member of Nicholson's management team. She's executed amazing customer experience strategies, responsible for the team's impressive Google star rating. She also helped pioneer the Lady Titans community, a group for women in the trades to network, share best practices and grow their careers. It's pretty awesome. I should know. I'm a member. We talk all about this and more in this energetic conversation. I hope you enjoy my chat with Lauren as much as I did. Lauren Vahey, welcome to the Toolbox for the Trades.

Thank you. Thank you.

I am so excited to have you on today. You have been on my radar for quite some time. I'm going to be honest. Many guests, not only in season one, but in season two recommended you as an excellent guest and I'm really excited for you to join me today. You are the director of customer experience at Nicholson Plumbing, Heating and Air right out of Boston. And we're going to get into all of that. But before we do that, let's start the way I always do, which is how did you get into the trades?

So I got into the trades largely by accident. I am definitely not one of those born in the trade, built for the trades people. In fact, my experience with the trades prior to this job was non existent. My dad is the customer that we all hate. He did everything himself. He's, you know, he's a handy guy and he. Yeah, so we. I really didn't have any experience with plumbers coming to my house or H Vac technicians or maintenances or any of that. That was all new to me. My background is actually in restaurant service and retail management. So like the customer service world and my life prior to Nicholson, right before Nicholson was spent working for and ultimately managing a specialty store, both with an online presence and a brick and mortar store. And my transition away from that into My current role really had to do with my work life balance. My round trip commute was three to four hours a day, depending on traffic. Though it wasn't super far. There's just no way, you know, there was no good way to get there. So I would get to work agitated from sitting in traffic and have a whole day in front of me. And then I'd get home after sitting in traffic again and being tired from being on my feet all day and working and, you know, just. Just kind of grinding it out all day. And it was starting to affect my family. I was irritable, I was exhausted. And I really just decided that maybe an authority role or a management role kind of wasn't my thing. And I really just wanted a job where I could, you know, go to work, punch in, do my job, punch out, and not think about work again until the next day. So in like a fit of, I'm exhausted, I can't do this anymore. I, like Robo, applied to a ton of different entry level customer service jobs, got a bunch of interviews, got some job offers, and one of them was Nicholson. So I started as a csr. I was the third person added to the office staff in addition to the accountant and the office manager at the time. And we've grown since then. But yeah, it was, it was definitely an accident. And I can't, you know, my work life balance is better now, even though I'm still in an authority position.

But yeah, you can't escape authority. You can't escape management. It's like the phrase, it's like the people who should have power, the ones that don't seek it or something like that. I feel like that's a quote that someone gave once, right?

Not, we'll just patent it. I like it.

Yeah, we'll patent it. I love what you said about lifestyle. I've been thinking about this a lot and how also, like, in terms of toolbox for the trades, you know, one of the reasons we started this is obviously there's a hiring crisis within the trades. Obviously, like, we need to do some PR as a whole to make the trades attractive to people coming into the workforce. Right. And I feel like there's so much pressure about who you want to be when you grow up, what kind of work do you want to do? But we never ask people, what kind of lifestyle do you want to have? Totally your answer right there was, did you want to commute three to four hours and miss time with your family and be irritable? And the answer was no. And it's great that Nicholson provided you an opportunity to not have to do that anymore.

Yeah, they totally did. And what I learned through the process, because I've been there now a little bit over four years, is that really the stress from an authoritative role. You know, I'm not going to say my job is not stressful, but what I will tell you is that even on the bad days, I still love my job. Now I don't feel like I take it home and I'm, you know, burdened by it. When I wake up in the middle of the night and I'm thinking about work, it's because I have this idea that I want to try. Not that I'm like, oh, God, I really don't want to go to work in the morning. And so the. What I found is that this kind of work life balance really has more to do with the culture that you work in and the culture that you're helping foster more than just straight hours that you're working or anything like that. So, you know, even though I may be actually working more hours than I did in my retail position, I'm so much more fulfilled because of who I work for and who I work with and who works for me.

I love that. And talk to me about the culture and how the culture of Nicholson brought you in, because, you know, I hear a lot about people who want to not just recruit more people in the trades, but specifically want to recruit women. And obviously, you had a great career prior to going to the trade. So what was it about Nicholson that made you think, all right, I'm gonna give this a try? Even though I don't know H vac and my dad's the worst type of customer.

I mean, I will tell you that I don't know that at the time, they were specifically marketing culture any differently than anybody else does. I mean, they did the whole get your birthday paid off and all these things that now in the position that I'm in, I see that everybody posts those things. And so it drew me in because from someone not in the industry, it was something different than I had typically seen. But what drew me to it, I'm going to be honest, was the commute. I was so not making decisions about culture at the time. I was just like, I am not in it for anybody but me and my family. I want to show up, I want to go home, and that's the end of it. But what kept me there and what made me comfortable with transitions into leadership roles was being passionate about the work that I'm doing being passionate about all of the rest of the team succeeding. You know, if you had told 16 year old me when I had all these dreams about going to college, majoring in dance, opening my own dance studio, like that was my whole life, right. Which is completely different than what I do now. If you had told me that at 35 I'd be helping to run a multimillion dollar plumbing and H Vac company, I would have said, a, there's no such thing as a multimillion dollar plumbing and H Vac company and B, no, I won't, you're insane. So, you know, it's funny the journey that life takes you on and it's funny how you kind of fall into things, but really, you know, I don't know how I feel about destiny and all of that, but I mean, I don't feel like I know I'm where I'm supposed to be and I'm very grateful every day for being able to work with the people I work with.

That's amazing. And yeah, I'm so happy you made that clarification about what made me stay was the passion for what I'm doing and also the people that I work with. That is such an underlying thing right there that shows if you want to attract great people and keep great people, you need to have a team of other great people. Don't let Sometimes we get energy vampires. That's a term from someone, remember what? But sometimes you get bad seeds in a group and it's sometimes really important to get rid of them because they can really influence the culture.

No, it's true. I mean, one of the biggest compliments I get, and I say it on the customer facing side too, right? Like when someone posts a review for our company and they say we've used Nicholson for years. One of my like fast answers is usually, thank you so much for continuing to invite us back into your home. That's such a compliment. But we also have a lot of people internally who work with us who refer their friends and get jobs, you know, for their friends through us. And you know, they go through the same interview process, but really what ends up happening is when I have an employee that's telling their friends and family how much they love their job and you should really come work for us. I can't think of a better compliment of them wanting to open our doors to the people in their life that they love and care about because they see not only a future for themselves, but a future for the people in their life. So you Know the second I stop getting employees coming to me saying, I know a guy or I know a girl or you should talk to this person, that's when I'll start to think maybe we're starting to do something wrong.

That's good to know. I love that you made that point. Let's talk. I want to get into Google reviews. I want to get into the customer experience. But before we do that, just tell me a little bit about Nicholson so the folks at home can, who are listening can kind of get an idea of the kind of business you guys do. Like, how many techs do you have, what kind of services do you do? That kind of stuff.

Yeah. So we have been in business for just over 11 years now. I've been there for a little over four years. Right around the same anniversary date. We have 48 employees, I think as of like right this second, which includes 17 technicians. We have two comfort advisors. We have 11 apprentices, assorted office and warehouse staff. We have a management team of four people, including myself. So we're, you know, that's kind of us from a size standpoint and the work we do, we do residential plumbing, H VAC and electrical work. Not a whole lot of new construction, not a whole lot of commercial. We really, we kind of try and stay in that residential space.

Nice. 11 apprentices. That's pretty high. Is it?

I think it is pretty high. So we, this is actually part of what I love about us is that we have more technicians right now that started with us as an apprentice than we do that we hired as a technician. And there's. It's almost like a proud momma feeling. Right. When you graduate someone from apprentice into technician and you put them in a truck and you release them into the world. And you know, these people we've seen grow from age, doesn't even really matter, but very green. I mean, we have one guy who prior to working with us was a cna, a nurse at a nursing home. He did that for, I want to say, 15 or 20 years. He's a handy person. He's again, a friend of a friend who had a mechanical aptitude but had zero trade experience. And he came on board with a good attitude, a good work ethic, team player, positive and just ready to learn and took everything that we gave to him and was like, yep, give me more, give me more. And that's the stuff that you can't really see until you see it in action. Right. But you know, people can learn how to use tools. People can learn how high efficiency systems Work people can figure out and get. Get training for troubleshooting or installation strategies or things like that. But what you can't teach is that fluffy stuff, which is like, where I live, I live in the world of fluffy. And you can't. People are either wired for positive attitudes and having a sense of teamwork and camaraderie, or you're not. So we really focus on hiring a human instead of hiring a skill set, because we can teach a skill set.

I absolutely love that. And I've heard a couple people on this podcast say the same thing or have shared that on webinars, because you have this giant hiring crisis, and it's like experienced techs are just so in demand and it's so hard to hire them. A lot of people are adopting this style of, let's find just great people, people who work in restaurants, people who work in retail. The nursing is also great. And let's train them on the technical. And then not only are they great for the human aspect because we hired them for their personality, but now they know how to do things the way we like to do things. And up to our standard.

Right.

This might not be your department, and if it's not, feel free to pass. But can you talk to me a little bit about how Nicholson tries to find these apprentices or what that recruiting process looks like?

Yeah. So a lot of it is word of mouth. A lot of it is our guys in line at a supply house and that very common conversation of, oh, how do you like it where you work? How I love it. How do you like it where you work? Oh, it's all right. And kind of keeping that line of communication open, we do the standard, you know, posts on job boards and Facebooks and things like that. Really what I think it comes down to is your reputation precedes you. And if you're someone in the industry and you are maybe not in love with where you work already, you're going to look for people that have good reputation online. Their technicians seem happy. You don't see, you know, and everyone knows everyone. Right. So just because I might, you know, I'm a technician at Nicholson doesn't mean I'm not friends on Facebook with a technician at anyone else near us. So people see each other's posts, and if you don't see your employees posting, you know, I can't believe I have to go to work again. Or, you know, people are very open online and, you know, so I think just being the company that we are attract people in, I hope, anyway. And the rest kind of just falls into place. We've been very lucky. I can't say we're not hiring because we're always hiring great technicians, but I think the best way that we recruit people is just by doing the work that we do and keep looking forward.

I love that. That's awesome. All right, so you went from. You got hired as a csr. You're now the Director of Customer Experience, one of four management members, so pretty high up in the company. Talk to me about how you tell me your transition. So that was CSR to Director of Customer Experience in four years. How did you make that climb and what happened?

This is going to be another answer people probably don't want to hear, but by accident. So I think it kind of goes back to what you said earlier, that you're kind of wired leadership, or you're not, and you kind of can't avoid it. So when I got hired as a csr, I did make it clear, like, I'm just trying to punch in and punch out, right? But through the osmosis of things, and as we grew, the management team that was in place at the time really wanted to stop fielding every single phone call from a customer who wanted a refund or a customer that wasn't in love with something that happened. So what they said to me was, we're going to give you a promotion. We're going to give you the title of customer service supervisor. And what that really means is you're going be the buffer between, you know, a CSR and the management team. And so if there's someone that's upset and another person takes the call, they'll pass it to you first. That way, the customers feel like they're climbing a ladder of some kind. They're feeling heard, and it was my job to listen, to have empathy, to try and diffuse the situation, to try and reassure them, have empathy and hopefully solve the problem before having to escalate it to begin with, they did a really good job of giving me clear and concise guidelines that I could operate by. A certain amount of money I was allowed to refund without asking for permission, a certain amount of service plans maybe I was able to give away in a month or a quarter or a year, things like that. So I was able to make decisions without having to put people on hold too much and ask around or email back and forth, which was really good. I think clarity is key for anybody in the office of being able to understand exactly what power they have. So that was kind of my first progression out of just the straight CSR role and then through some major transitions in our. In our company, the rest kind of fell on my lap. And it was all stuff that I had already done, right? Like the payroll side of it and the benefits, administration and marketing and all of these kind of auxiliary things that obviously help a company grow were all part of my prior life and my retail job. And as there were gaps left behind by other people, I kind of absorbed them happily again, working somewhere I loved, it didn't feel like work. I felt like this is a need I want to help. What's good for me is good for everybody. And so I was happy to take it on. And then that eventually morphed into the role of Director of Customer experience, which anyone that's in the industry that's familiar with verbal packaging really just means, oh, yeah, bring that to Lauren, that's her job. Or, yeah, that's Lauren's department. She'll take care of it, so just bring it to her, please.

Do me a favor. Verbal packaging for me, the layman's the person who's constantly learning about how to run a service business without actually doing it. Can you just provide me some clarification?

Yeah. So verbal packaging really is more used on, like the option side and the technician side, where instead of calling something a toilet, you can call it a porcelain waste removal system, which is absurd, but it's a way to kind of fluff it out so a customer can't, you know, Google or Amazon or something to kind of spot check your pricing or what it is that you're. That you're proposing to them.

I love it. I'm going to be referring to my toilet as a porcelain waste removal system from.

Very fancy.

Thank you.

Very fancy, sophisticated.

So a couple of things you touched upon there that I want to talk about first. I absolutely love that when you were assigned that role as the buffer between CSR and management, you were given so much clarity and so many guidelines as to what tools you had at your disposal to appease this upset customer. If someone like that went off on a light bulb for me, what recommendations would you make to other companies out there who are trying to implement a similar system?

So I really think that clarity really is the name of the game here and that any position will have unlimited success as long as they know what's in their boundaries. I think when I try and give that authority to my dispatcher now, I involve her a lot in the conversations that do get escalated to me. So she has the role now where if an Upset customer calls in. She talks to them first, but if she can't solve their problem or they're really not budging, she passes it to me. But she comes with it. She comes to my office, we have the phone call together. She hears how I handle the call. She hears the things that I say. And I think when. When you are part of that conversation and you're hearing what a common solution might be, because not every customer wants money back. Not every customer. You know, the solutions are different to everybody. And often I think the assumption is that a customer, you know, from our side, we think a customer wants more than they actually might. So it's about teaching them how to gauge a customer, teaching them to ask the customer, what did you have in mind? Or what were you looking for? Or how can I help? And kind of putting the ball in their court. But then as she sees me handle these calls and she sees common solutions that work, that from our perspective really don't impact our bottom line a crazy amount. I mean, what is refunding a trip charge? Is that really going to impact whether we are or are not successful for a year? No. What about a free service plan? If it means they're going to use us for years to come, you know, to recover one thing. The other thing, too is I remind everyone that works for me that the mark of a good company is not getting it right 100% of the time. The mark of a good company is someone who makes it right when you fall short. And so giving them the grace to not be perfect and just kind of the ability to take responsibility if they maybe say something that they could have said a little bit differently or, you know, just constantly have that learning experience is huge. And then for anyone that wants to implement anything along the lines of assigning certain levels of authority, I would say, well, what would you do if you were handling that call? What would you offer? And if you're finding that you're offering the same thing over and over again and you trust that person's judgment, then just let them have that power. And you can have. You can set up a debrief to review it as they're first starting out. And if you feel like maybe they gave away a little bit too much again on that one call, maybe it's not the end of the world and you can use that to retrain.

That's great, man. So much good advice there. And I love giving them the grace not to be perfect. To be. To not be perfect. I wrote that down. That's wonderful. So you Mentioned that as you grew in your role, you got a lot of rogue responsibilities that got dropped. A marketing, payroll, benefits. So what is your role? What do you oversee now? What are your main objectives as the Director of Customer Experience?

So ultimately my responsibilities are whatever needs to be done. I have a role in it and I try and delegate, but people know they can come to me to spot check and sanity check day to day. Operationally, I handle payroll and I handle benefits and I manage the office girls and I listen in on their phone calls and I coach them. I help develop processes for the guys in the field to make sure they're efficient, to make sure that they have what they need at their desire disposal so that they can be as efficient as possible, but still provide customers with an exceptional level of communication, exceptional level of service. And I think to add to the vague answer, it's anything that could possibly contribute to the growth of the company kind of falls on my lap.

So, no, I love everything.

My responsibility is everything.

No, I love that lot of hats. But also means you have a ton of experience. So I want to get into some more of the best practices you've learned in your role. But before we do, I want you to talk to me about some of the biggest obstacles or one of the biggest obstacles you've overcome in your trade career and how you overcame it.

Sure. So I will say that first of all, this is like, this is a vulnerable question, right? This is called lay it out on the mat for everybody to hear. So I'll just lean into my newfound love of Brene Brown, which I know you're already aware of, how like, you know, what a fanatic I am out of nowhere. So I'll just try to be fully transparent here. I could talk about tangible obstacles all day, like, you know, unexpected staffing changes or Covid or things that are procedural, like switching to a new software platform, like when we move to servicetitan. But I think really the underlying obstacle that really any of us have in our professional challenge is whatever the personal mindset is simmering underneath. I think really for me, the biggest obstacle is trying to overcome the imposter syndrome, which, you know, for anyone who's not familiar with it, even though I think it's pretty self explanatory, it's just feeling like I don't belong here or that eventually someone's going to figure out that I really don't know what I'm talking about and I don't have my shit together. You know, it goes back again to when I was 16 years old, I would not have believed that this is the position I was going to be in. So subconsciously I'm feeling like I don't really belong in the community or the industry and maybe someday I'll get over it. Or maybe more likely I'm actually not alone in feeling that I'm not fully a grown up yet or that I. That I'm surrounded by more people like me than I really think and that we're all doing, you know, the next right thing, whatever we think that might be. And, you know, maybe we're all just not grown ups.

Hello. Yes, you're speaking with someone similar. Very familiar with imposter syndrome. I lean into Brene Brown quite a bit and we quite a lot in this podcast. Definitely recommend her books, Dare to lead. But even just the gifts of imperfection, even just her 20 minute Ted talk, just do yourself a favor and watch it.

That's it.

But yeah, I think mindset is so important, especially, you know, in your situation. I'm kind of similar in that I do a podcast about the trades and I've never been in the trades before and I feel that same way a lot of the time, honestly, Lauren. So I'm right there with you. I think as someone looking on the outside, in your experience, I don't think you should feel that way. I'll let you know. But I personally find that the only way I can overcome it is by doing it and just giving 100% giving space to the voice in my head when it comes up being like, I acknowledge you, I see that you're here, but we're gonna move on anyway. What are some ways that you kind of try and overcome that imposter syndrome?

Well, I will say that instead of trying to prevent the meltdowns, I just let myself have a meltdown every once in a while. I also try and really surround myself with people who help me to chill out a little bit and give myself a little bit of a break. I will say that as part of being a user of Service Titan and having access to the wonderful community of people that also use Service Titan, it's introduced me to people that I can't believe I've noticed, known for longer than I have. I mean, if it wasn't for the Stacey Fors and the Jessica Smiths of the world, I swear to you, I'd be like crying on the floor of my office every day because, you know, I'd be thinking, it can't. I must be missing something, right? So I think that really what helps me get out of my own head is people like them when they say to me, first of all, you need to chill out because you're fine. Second of all, even if you're not fine, it's okay that you're not fine. So just have a meltdown and then pick yourself up again and answer the next email or the next phone call and. And, you know, the rest will kind of fall into place. So I love it.

Jessica is also going to be on this season of the podcast, but Stacey 4 was on season two. For anyone who's listening and all, including.

Yourself and in good company.

In good company for sure. So, yeah, I'm going to talk about your networking in the trades and working with other women in the trades, specifically in a bit. But before we get to that, I really want to talk about just what you've learned, because I think that processes you've put in place, the knowledge you shared, you've learned a lot at Nicholson just in the four years. And I want to kind of share your knowledge with the audience here. So here at service time, we talk a lot about having rock stars in the office, like how it's important to have good CSRs, good dispatchers, talk about call scripting and call coaching. So, like, what do you feel are some of the essential qualities or training a person needs to flourish in this role? Especially being in the one right now where you are literally watching your dispatchers, watching your CSRs, and looking for opportunities for growth.

Yeah. So I think the biggest thing is giving them the same level of access to information that I have. I in no way am an expert in anything that we do. I don't care if it's internally or externally. There is someone doing stuff better than us, and we are doing stuff better than other people. That's just how life works. And by being part of something like the mastermind group on Facebook, it's been super helpful for me. But I encourage everybody that works at Nicholson to also be part of that group, because anything that we're struggling with, we are not the first people and we're not the last people. So a search the group and see if the answer already exists. And if you can't find exactly what you're looking for, ask the question, because I promise you'll get way more answers than you expected to get. And so I really think that when you empower people to find the answer themselves and be part of the solution, it helps kind of develop that leadership potential in them. My dispatcher now started as a csr and it was the same situation as me. I mean, she worked for me, actually at the store prior to Nicholson and I referred her in. And at the time she was. She wasn't even 21 yet. She was just in a very different place in her life. But since joining Nicholson, she's grown into, like, I'm so proud of her. I talk about her all the time like she's my own and I adore her, but she's just. She's grown so much because I feel like she was given the space to grow, given the space to not be perfect and given the space to say, I had this idea. What do you think? Can we try it? And so really that's kind of how I try and foster the overall attitude is that if anyone has an idea, please just bring it to the table. Not saying it's going to happen, but we're at least going to talk about it. And I will help to identify, you know, maybe we've already tried it and we'll talk about why it didn't work or maybe there's a new way we could do it and we'll talk about if it would work. And I really just want everyone to feel like they're part of the overall big picture instead of me, really, because I don't feel qualified every single day. Hashtag imposter syndrome.

Again, you just said some. Two things really great there. And the first one was giving your team access to information that you have, so making sure that they have literally all the resources they can succeed. I've seen this, and I've seen this with some other companies where they sometimes get very possessive of their people, for.

Lack of a better word, or protective.

And they don't necessarily want their folks to be on, for example, the service Titan Masterminds group or other service groups on Facebook or even like just another networking circles. What would you say to someone who said, like, oh, no, I don't do that with my people?

I would say that this is kind of a common topic that you don't want to share too much because you're worried someone's going to poach. Right. It happens very often when people, you know. So first, perfect example, we're redoing our website right now. We're going to launch a new website soon. And one of the things that our, the company we're working with suggested was an about us section. And they said, oh, we'll have a bio of your technicians and it'll be so great. And I said, yes, I want that. And they were like, okay, do you want first and Last names or just first names. And I hadn't thought twice about it. Right. You know, we don't have bios of our technicians on our current thing. We send them out with appointment reminders and things. But on our website, we don't have, you know, a class photo or anything. So I didn't even think twice about it. And I was like, why? I mean, talk to me about what the difference would be. And they're like, oh, well, some people are really worried that if you have first and last names posted on your website, that another company is going to go there and they're going to poach your people. And I just, like, it just never occurred to me, right. Because I'm just often in my blissful world of let's just work internally. I think that when people, again, feel like they're part of the big picture and when they feel like their voice is heard, that instills a sense of loyalty. And if you're worried about people taking your staff from you, it means that they're trying to identify a gap in that person's work life that they're going to exploit. So if they think that. That my CSRs don't feel fulfilled, they're going to try and say, we listen to your ideas and we value your opinion because they're trying to make it seem like we don't. So I just. I try really hard to make it clear that we care very much about them on an individual level. We care about them as part of the team. And as a result of that, it's instilled the sense of loyalty. I think that's why our apprentices stay to be technicians. I think it's why our CSRs grow into dispatchers or install coordinators or bookkeepers or, you know, any of these other roles that we've been able to add to our company, because people are happy to step into those roles. They feel fulfilled.

Yeah. And I will also say to that in. This is my. This is my opinion, Right. Granted. No, I've never hired. I've never been in this industry before, but I feel like the more protective you are of your people, the more they'll sense that and the more resentful they'll get because you want to give them areas to grow. I mean, the other thing you said that I absolutely loved was entertaining all ideas that come to the table and giving people the opportunity to make a difference other than the, you know, daily. The daily operations of their job. Like, if they have an idea for a marketing campaign or for something you should do on the website or on Facebook. If you entertain that and hear it and listen to their pitch for it, that'll make them feel seen, heard and understood, which is what we all want, essentially. Right?

Well, that's what it all boils down to on any level. Personal, professional, anything. I mean, when you look at someone that's in an unhealthy romantic relationship, if they feel like they're with someone who's very possessive and protective and controlling of them, it doesn't make you want to stay in that relationship. And I think it's the same thing on a professional level. Right. If you feel like you're not valued and you're not heard and you're micromanaged and you're controlled and your voice doesn't matter, you're not going to want to stay there. That's not somewhere that you're going to have long term. And those are the people that will be able to be poached by your competitors. Because the grass will look greener. If the grass looks greener on my side, because we're watering the grass, to use the cliche, no one's going to want to leave.

So I 100% agree with you here. All right. I knew we would be talking for a while and I want to get. I have a bunch more questions for you. So you guys currently have, I think, as of this morning, 852, 4.9 stars. 852 reviews. 4.9 stars on Google. Go. You talk to me. I mean, you've already kind of talked to me about the breakdown of how you kind of had this escalation process at Nicholson for dealing with customer concerns. But what are some other things that you guys really do in terms of going above and beyond to really make happy customers that will go on Google, leave you five stars and write about how much they like you? Because honestly, a lot of people don't do that. A lot of people do not do that.

So step number one is to call a spade a spade. And when a technician's in a home and they know it's not going great, they know it's not going great. And so we have processes in place and escalation processes where they can call before they even leave the house to see if there's anything that can happen, they know they can reach out to someone and say, you know, this. This just isn't going great. They're upset about whatever the case may be or they're not moving forward for whatever reason. And so we try and work through it in Real time. We also empower our technicians to have conversations with homeowners like they're members of their family, like they're just human to human. And it's not customer and service provider. We have our technicians ask customers, you know, is there any other questions you have today? Is there anything that would prevent you from leaving us any less than a five star? Is there anything I didn't do for you? And they just really want to make sure that they are providing the best service possible too. I mean, that really just comes down to work ethic. If they care about the work they're doing, the rest will flush itself out, pun intended. And, you know, we'll, we'll be able to uncover things before it happens. Now that doesn't happen 100% of the time. Right. So of course we also have processes in place where we are a little bit blindsided by someone who wasn't happy. And in those instances, that's where someone from the management team will get on the phone and again call a spade a spade and we'll say, Listen, Mrs. Smith, Mrs. Jones, Mr. Whoever. We don't expect to get it right 100% of the time. We know there are times we're going to fall short because we're human. So let's just move forward. What can we do? Where's the gap that needs to be filled? What are you feeling like didn't go the way that you expected it? And when you work with a company like Nicholson, you're working with people who are going to make it right and that are going to work with you. Even when we don't hit it out of the park the very first time we do it, it.

I love that. Because when you work with us, we're going to make it right no matter even if we didn't get it right the first time. I really like that. I also really enjoy that transparency and I'm sure customers appreciate that too. Instead of a gut reaction being like, oh, are you sure? Or well, according to this report, this and this happened. It's. It sounds like you really take them at their word and say, we hear you, we see you, we understand you. Back to what we just said and we're going to do our best to make it right for you.

Well, and make it right doesn't always mean give them what they're asking for. Right. Like, every person's perspective is only as good as the data that's in front of them. So they feel that they are just as right about the situation as we do and trying to Put ourselves in their shoes and understand they're feeling this way because of X, Y and Z, because that's all the information they have. But we also have A, B and C. So maybe if we share that, that's what helps diffuse the situation. That's what helps them feel like they're dealing with humans instead of a company. And that's what ultimately, you know, gets them to. We're not giving away the store every time something doesn't go well. It's just about having a conversation and sharing with them that, you know, I understand why you feel that way, but here's some more information about it. Let's talk about it. Are you still feeling upset? Is there. You know, maybe there's a different way we can go about that. This and it. I mean, I really, truly. The honesty and transparency, I believe, is why people continue to use us.

I love that. I also love the idea of exchanging information with the customer opposed to kind of getting into that defensive net. There's like a subtle difference between sharing information and getting defensive.

Sure.

Yeah. I think that's really great. And so you already talked about a couple ways, and you have 11 apprentices. You have a lot of guys that were apprentices first and now are technicians. I hear a lot that a lot of shops struggle with techs following protocols or following systems and processes. It really feels like you guys have a pretty solid handle on making sure your technicians deliver a customer a great customer experience. Can you talk a little bit about how you've been able to make that stick and how the process has been repeatable in the last four years that you've been there?

So, first of all, thank you for thinking that we do things so consistently. Consistently. Because I can tell you right now that some days it feels like someone threw a bunch of feathers at a fan and we're just kind of scrambling. So we really just try to involve everybody in the process. If we're going to change something, we talk about it first. And the way we make it stick is we explain the why behind we're doing things. I try very hard not to just dictate things unless it's like a really serious situation where a boundary was crossed or something. But we don't run into that too often. And so because we explain why we're trying something or why a process is going into place, we talk about why it's benefiting. Maybe let's say we're going to put a new form into place that we want the technicians to fill out. Well, why is it good for you guys, why is it good for us? Why is it good for the company? And as soon as you take that wall down and you explain, the thought process behind feels a little bit more intentional, I think. And so people are more apt to give something a shot if they feel like they understand why it's being done instead of it just being dictated to them. Other than that, we're lucky that we have ServiceTitan, which is such a dynamic software and it allows us to run our business the way we always have. And I say all the time, I joke when I talk with the Stacy's and the Jesses of the world that we're all running the same business, but we're all running completely different businesses. There's a million ways to do service plans, there's a million ways to do maintenances, there's a million ways to do everything. And we're all doing the same thing, but we're all doing it so differently. So to be able to have a software that's so customizable and the more work you put into it, truly the more work or the more you get out of it couldn't be more true. And I don't think we'd be where we are if we didn't make that transition a year ago.

Yeah, that's really interesting. I'm really mulling on it. It's like the model of the service business is fairly straightforward, I should say.

Except it's not.

It's not. It's like, it's really when you're at the owner, when you're an owner, when you're at the management leadership level, you really have the power to influence what the company is. It's like, yes, we're an H Vac company or yes, we're a plumbing company, an electrical company, or all three. Irrigation, pest control, garage door. I'm going to shout, you guys, whatever.

Yeah, whatever.

But it's really kind of that top down mentality that really gives the flavor, the culture of the business and makes it an exceptional place to work, an exceptional place that people want to do business with. I'm actually, I mean, after this interview I'm picking up my car from my mechanic who I absolutely love because they just, they call me by name, we joke and it's just such a lovely culture. And it's like I don't know anything about cars and I use cars in my analogies only because I am not yet a homeowner so I cannot relate to the homeowner issues. But it's like when you, you really you're so much more than a service business, right? When you really get down to it.

People are asking us into their homes and this year more than ever, their kids are home, they're taking care of family matter. Well, we are in people people's houses. It doesn't get much more personal than that. And so it's really important to break down that barrier and to be personable because it's really intimidating, you know, to have a stranger come out to your house, be in the parts of your house that don't get a lot of attention. I mean, how many people have sparkling clean basements or attics or utility closets or anything? You know what I mean? So like our guys are going in there and they're seeing the skeletons and that's nerve wracking. It would be for me anyway if I had someone coming over to my house. I'd be like power cleaning everything and I'd be so self conscious about it. So that's what our guys are walking into every day. And same thing with your car guy. That's my Starbucks girl. Like, she sees my car pull up, she sees me walk in, she sticks my coffee out, she knows me, my name and I've like, I would know her passing her on the street, but I don't know anything about her life other than that she knows my coffee. Or she's so flipping friendly when I walk in and out. And she really starts my day off on a great foot. And if I have that mentality about every phone call we answer, every door we knock on it. Really, truly. At the risk of being super fluffy and kumbaya, it's another opportunity to make somebody's day.

I love that. All right, final question on technicians and CSRs and operations. So rumor has it, sometimes there's tension between technicians and the front office.

Really?

I know, crazy. Given your role, I imagine you get to see if it exists. You probably get to see it. So I would love to hear your thoughts on how to resolve that, how to work with it when it comes up and what tips you would give for folks who are maybe dealing with that at their own business. Business.

So I feel like I keep giving you the same answer, but it really just boils down to give people the space to be imperfect. Everybody has a bad day. There's plenty of days I wake up in the morning and I'm just off and I might not be as bubbly and warm as I am on most days. And if I look at somebody else who's kind of having a meltdown, And I remember that I kind of have meltdowns too. Sometimes it really helps to take the edge out of any particular scenario. The other thing too is just understanding perspective. There's this really great image that I pull up for people anytime that they're kind of throwing attacks in any direction where you can Google it. But there's an image of two people facing each other. And I think they're even like stick figure drawings. But there's two people facing each other, and on the ground in front of them, there's a number drawn on, and from one person's perspective it's a six, and from the other person's perspective it's a nine. Well, neither one of them is wrong and neither one of them is right, but they're just not seeing it the same way. And again, it just comes down to the data you have in front of you. Right. So if you can just try and ask same questions we do when we're trying to overcome objections. Right. Well, explain to me why you're thinking this or what can I do to help you understand or, you know, if you handle that scenario the way you would handle a customer interaction, it takes the bite out, it takes the personal aspect of it out. And really then it just becomes fact finding and compassion for the other person, knowing that you really, truly are working towards the same goal. You're just seeing it from two different ways.

I love it. The theme of this conversation is definitely compassion and giving grace, which delights me. So I thank you for that. Not to put you on the spot, but is there a particularly memorable customer experience you have from working at Nicholson?

Oh, my gosh. I mean, there's a recent one that I can tell you. So we had. So we're 24 7. We had a guy go out to a call, and I didn't know that we had even been out to that house until I got the alert on my phone from my Google app that we had gotten a one star review. And I'm like, no, it's Sunday morning. What am I? I don't want a one star on a Sunday. Come on. So I log in, I'm like, what happened? And I look at the call in service titan and I reach out to the technician to find out what's going on. And I reach out to the customer and he gave me the same. I never go online and post and I'm not that person. I'm like, okay, so we talked a lot. I did the same thing. The mark of a good company is what happens when we fall Short. And it really didn't matter to him. I think he was so, you know, he. He was stressed out. He felt like he paid money and got nowhere. He felt like it was a waste of time. He felt like he wasn't being heard. And for the life of me, I just could not. We just were not speaking the same language, and it was an exercise for me and really just taking a breath. And sometimes you have to say, let me review the situation, Let me talk to the technician and you kind of regroup a little bit. But ultimately we were able to make it right. We sent somebody back out, and he's one of those people that I don't think he's ever going to really, truly be perfectly happy. But we got, you know, he. We made him happy to the point that he took the review down. He didn't update the review. We didn't get a five star out of him, but we don't have the one star anymore, which I love. And, you know, really, it was a lesson in humility and to not get comfortable in the same things you always say. Because once you get on autopilot, for me, that's what it was. It was, you know, looking in the mirror of autopilot that, like, I always say the same thing, I always give the same answers, but at a certain point, that's going to come across as really disingenuous. And I think that's the line that I crossed, and he could feel it. So it really forced me to reach out to people that I know, ask how they handle situations like that. I got really good input about things that they say, kind of on autopilot that I've never said before. So that's where my community comes into play, my support system. And, you know, I really just try and surround myself with people that if I zoom the lens out, it's, do I ask this person for advice in any point in my life? Do I ask them for personal advice, professional, romantic, parenting advice, financial advice, whatever. And if the answer is no, that's kind of where I draw the line. And I'm very lucky that I have so many people in my life that I can reach out to on so many different levels, because it really helps me stay focused and kind of open my eyes up when maybe stuff that I'm doing is getting a little stale.

That's a fantastic answer. I'm so happy you answered that and were very honest with me on it. I mean, we. I know scripting is huge in the trades. Chris Cruz this season, he talks a lot. About scripting and why it's important to know it so you can really improvise with it. Like, if you know, if you're on autopilot with how you're supposed to say it and you know it inside out, you can kind of weave in and out. But I think it's also great to notice it and say, like, something's not working. How can I make this better? And reaching out to your community and doing that. So I want to talk about your community and we go into that. I just want to ask you, like, point blank, what's it like being a woman in the trades and more importantly, a woman in leadership in the trades?

So I think it is equal parts of fun and amazing combined with terrifying combined with difficult. I mean, it's every emotion depending on the day, depending on the hour, the minute, the second. I am lucky that the place that I work, the owner of my company and the other members of my management team really do value my opinion, and they give me the space to have ideas and they don't shush me. I don't like to be shushed. And I am lucky that our team of technicians is, for the most part, very understanding and open to what I have to say. And even if we clash, I'm not going to sit here and talk for an hour and a half about how perfect we are, because I promise we're not. But. But even when we clash, we're able to have a heated conversation, but everybody stays in the room. And that it makes me so happy that people don't just storm up and walk out. But I can tell you that as I've tried, you know, as I've expanded and I grew into a leadership role, it does expose you to different people. It exposes you to your vendors, to your territory managers for your supply houses. It exposes you to all your vendors for, you know, your credit card bills and your answering service and your advertising companies and all of these different people that you work with, not every day, but they're an integral part of your company. It also opens you up to the world of, you know, other business owners and things like that. So I will say that that is where I've struggled more. And I think it's because I've been so spoiled with where I work that I kind of have this jaded view of the rest of it. But. But there have been times where I asked a question and I feel like the answer is like, why are you at. How dumb can you be? Why are you asking that question? Or you wouldn't get it. You're just a girl in the office or you just answer the phone or you're just customer service. And so that's been really the more challenging role for me. Not every day is a challenge. There are plenty of people in this industry who do give women the voice to be heard, but it's not always perfect.

It sounds like for you, as you got into your director role, there was some old school thinking and maybe some old school management that you clashed with, opposed to the culture at Nicholson, which is, it sounds like very accepting of diversity in the trades and all of that. So we've mentioned already Stacey4 and Jessica Smith, who are two wonderful people. Stacey4's episode is out now. Now, Jessica's will come shortly after this. Talk to me about how you three founded the Service Titans, Service Titans unofficial Lady Titans group. And was who did anyone. Am I missing a founder name there as well?

So I think it originally started with the three of us and then we like lassoed people in because we. Yeah. Yep. Well, no one's safe from us. So I reached out on the Masterminds Group and I. So we just to.

Just to clarify. So Service Titan Masterminds Group is a community of all of our customers where they meet together and they share workflows, best practices, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, Just wanted to clarify that. Continue. Sorry.

Yeah, so I posted a workflow question and Jessica and Stacy were nice enough to offer like, hey, why don't we jump on a zoom and I'll show you how we do it and we'll talk about it. And at this point, I don't even remember what it was. It was either like inventory control or how to set up system sales or maybe it was adjustable capacity. I don't know what part of it it was, but whatever the question was, I reached out and they jumped at the opportunity to help me. And I am not shy about saying, yes, please when someone offers to help. I'm not bashful about it. So we jump on a call. I met with Stacy and her husband Mike, and then on Jess's side, her and her brother, her and Gary. And we just kind of chatted and we talked about different ways that we all do the same thing. And that led to a group text between me, Stacy and Jess, which led to a post that I posted in the Mastermind group that basically addressed Service Titan as a whole and said something along the lines of, of please send Stacy up to me and Jess because Jess is in Massachusetts too, said please send her up here because we need some like serious girl talk in the trades. Pow, wow, like workflow sesh. And it was, I think, different enough from the normal content that people were like, oh, look, something different. And so they got a lot of likes and a lot of attention and ultimately Bahi ended up seeing it and he was like, you know what? I got your back on this. Sure. If you like, if we can do these couple things and you can check these couple boxes, then yeah, we can have your back on that. We'll send out mugs and tote bags and T shirts and, you know, maybe once the world opens up again, we can do some in person stuff. So it again, very much like my entry into the trades, my entry into my current position. The group was accidental, but it has been. I mean, I can't. I get very emotional about it and I'll. I'll either swear or cry. So I'm just, I. I'm so thankful for everybody that has come to each other's rescue and come to my rescue, people that I've been able to help out as a result of it. And I'm kind of blown away, to be honest.

That's awesome. So Lady Titans is a group separate from Masterminds in that it's really talks about women's issues and the trades. And we've had. I'm a part of the group as well. We've had several sessions. Like the most recent one was about goal setting. So it's more like kind of big topic items, like not necessarily in the weeds, like how do you run this adjustable capacity planning and service Titan, but more like what are some things that you as a woman deal with in the trades? And what I love about it is that there's also men there too. You know, guys who are coming up in the industry and want to be good allies to women as well. Like Jonathan Brewer is an excellent advocate, an ally in that group. So can you just talk a little bit about what the mission of Lady Titans is?

Well, the first mission of Lady Titans is to put together an official mission of Lady Titans because again, it happened so fast and it's so big now. I still really can't believe it. But I don't think we expected it to turn into something as officially official as it really is. And so really what the, I guess, impromptu mission is to help women find their voice, to help them feel like they have a connection to the work that they're doing, a connection to the people that they're working for, the people they're working with, to give people Access to just other people in the industry that you maybe might not feel like you have access to, to share best practices, to share meltdowns with. I mean it's kind of like, like the good, the bad. Stacey put it best recently. It's like the good, the bad, the sad, the hilarious, the wtf, all of it just rolled into one. Because on any given day we could have any one of those different days. So really the mission is just to have each other's backs and help people find, find their voice.

Yeah, it's really a community, I think, of women in the industry who just can network with one another and, and help lift each other up and just really, I mean, you already said like Jessica and Stacy have been tremendous allies for you and growing your career. Also growing personally. And I mean the more I talk to people in the trades who, whether you're the owner of a shop who's trying to go from like 3 to 5 million or you're someone like you, Lauren, who's got this director role and you're like, you maybe have some imposter syndrome. Like to growing and to overcoming those goal, to hitting your goals and to overcoming obstacles, is to talk to people that are in this same place as you, that are doing the same kind of things that you are. And sometimes just knowing that you're not alone, I feel such a difference just in your mindset, which we talked about already, and your outlook on life and the kind of energy you can bring into an organization and you just said it so yourself, like the energy that you bring into that Nicholson brought the culture they have there, that's the reason you stayed. So I mean, it sounds to me like Lady Titan's just another awesome tool for women in the trades to get connected and to get to know one another and just empower one another because trades is a great career, it's a great industry and more people should know about it, especially women.

Million percent agree with you. I mean, I have an eight year old daughter who if she, the second she turns old enough to work, if she wants a job in the trades, I will happily sign away college and tell her she's on the right track because I think whether she wants to be a technician or she wants to work in the office or she wants to, you know, even these marketing companies, for example, that specialize with the trades or anything like that, there's, it is such a surprise for me, a surprisingly rewarding industry that I don't think gets the credit it deserves from the general public, the general population, but internally I think we all get it. Like once you're in it, you're kind of sucked in and it's kind of hard to get free from it, which is good. I agree.

So obviously, I know we're running at about an hour now, but I have a couple more questions if you'll still entertain me.

Yes, I could talk to you all day.

So obviously I first became aware of you because you are a pretty big power user of Service Titan and I don't necessarily want to talk about how much you love it or anything like that, but I really would love to know about what it takes a team like yours to adapt to change and a new way of doing things. Because that's like Service Titan obviously is a new piece of software that's coming into a lot of these shops. Right. It's a whole new way of, of leveraging technology to do business. So like, what are some tips that you have on change management and getting people on board to do hard things or different things?

Yeah, I would say the biggest thing for change management is don't be afraid to push back a deadline. If you're not ready, you're not ready. Service Titan is a perfect example of that. If your say quickbook file isn't ready to go go, don't do it. That you can push back your go live day. If you feel like you need more training, just go get the more training. You know it still, again, I keep giving you the same answer, but give yourself the grace to not get it right the first time to say I need help with something and to really, you know, reach out to the community of people that is more confident and understand that nothing's permanent. So even when you do implement a change, there's nothing saying that that change is written in stone or blood or whatever. If you changed it once, you can change it again. So if it really doesn't work, it's not the end of the world. It's like a bad haircut, right? Hair grows. So nothing really truly is actually permanent. And if it doesn't work, you can pull the plug on it just as fast as you plugged it in.

Yeah, that's a great way to answer. I have some rapid fire questions that I did not, I did not give you beforehand. But if you've listened to other episodes, which I know you've done, you probably know what I'm going to ask.

Yeah, and I was panicking before I.

Do that, is there anything we should have talked about but we didn't talk about?

I don't think so. I just very much appreciate the dedicated time with you and really just giving. This is just another notch on the board of giving women the voice and letting me share my story. Hopefully, maybe there's a CSR or, or a dispatcher that will hear it, or someone completely not in the trades who stumbles across the podcast by accident, that will have the same by accident journey as me and land in a position that they love.

I love it. Oh, before I get to the rapid fire, any quick tips for owners out there who are trying to recruit more women?

Be open about it. Be like, shout it from the rooftops that the trades are not just for men on any level. Be open to train women. And don't you know, if someone comes to you that if a woman comes to you and says, I want to be a technician, but they don't have the experience? Well, I've had guys that start with us that don't have the experience and they're great. So there's no difference in a woman that doesn't have experience than a man. I also think that they can be understanding of a woman's perspective and how our brains are just naturally wired differently and giving them the space and the maybe different style, even though the message is still the same of training or mentoring or teamwork or even the environment that you have your employees working in.

Love it. Great answer. All right, rapid fire questions. Ready?

Okay.

How do you take your coffee? Or rather, what does your Starbucks girl know about you?

My Starbucks girl knows that in the summertime, I'm not one of those New England people that drinks iced coffee year round. So winter time.

And also surprised that you're a Starbucks person, not a Dunkin person.

Yeah. No, I can't. It's kind of recent, I'll be honest with you, because we didn't have a lot of Starbucks near me, and it's more on my way. Even though there's a lot of Dunkin. I don't. I don't know what it is. I don't know. But so wintertime, it's venti with a little milk and sugar, and in the summertime, same thing, but ice, kind of plain.

Nice. No, not plain. If you could have dinner with one person, dead or alive, who would it be?

I was hoping you wouldn't ask me this one because there's so many answers I'm going to go with. There's about a million different answers I can say for famous people, so I'm just going to skip all those and I'll say, my grandfather, he is someone that through stories I've heard a lot about. And I knew him, but I wish I knew him more as an adult. And I think he was a really beautiful human that I wish I would have known more in my adult life.

Yeah, I love that. What's the number one thing you're trying to learn more about right now?

Other people. And I would say, I'll be honest, I kind of want to learn more about, like, actual. The technical side of it. I want to know how the systems work because I feel like if I don't know what I'm talking about, then I sound like an idiot.

You should talk to Vanessa Gonzalez about that. She did that. Do you know her?

No.

We. I'll make the. I'll make the connection after we record.

Thank you.

If money weren't an object. So you had unlimited resources, what's the first thing you would do?

Take my kids on a vacation.

Love it. Any podcasts or books that you recommend to the folks listening podcasts would be.

Toolbox for the Trades, obviously. Because really, truly, it's the only one I listen to. Although I. Maybe that's like a New Year's resolution is to listen to more and. And books Brene Brown all day.

Yeah. Her books are phenomenal. What's the hard girl crush? I saw her live when she did the book tour for Braving the Wilderness, and I just was like, I have tears in my eyes.

Did you cry? I would cry. Yeah.

She has podcasts. So now that you know, I know.

Actually, I did know that I lied. So that means I lied to you. I'm really sorry. I have to listen to her.

What's the. Finally, what's the number one thing every contractor should do to run a successful business?

Just be a human. Just like, be a good human. Whatever that means to you. Just be a decent person, please. In general.

Yeah, I agree. Lauren, thank you so much for joining me on Toolbox for the Trades.

Thank you.

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