Curt Maly Reveals A Better Way To Do Facebook Advertising on Bacon Wrapped Business

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Welcome to Bacon Wrap Business. I'm Brad and I'm your host today. And I want to let you know that my guest today is Kurt Molly. Now, Kurt is one of the most sought after experts in the world of Facebook media buying, social media marketing and paid traffic strategies. He is also my not so secret anymore weapon that I utilize with my clients, with my business. And he's the person that I follow first, not only call when I need advice and help, but often refer, partner and strategize with him on my client accounts and some of the businesses that I own as well. So today you are going to get a very special peek inside one of the, as I said, one of the people that I use for understanding this world even better. And because of that, I'm going to end up, I'm going to end up playing a little bit dumb, asking some questions that I already know the answer to for your benefit. That way you can kind of get these concepts that I already have up in my head a little bit cleaner. And the reason you're going to want to pay attention is because almost nobody out there is talking about the strategies that Kurt is deploying. And he's doing it in a really refreshing, cost effective and other revenue effective way that I, as I said, I have not seen other people do this. And I've been really, really happy with the results that I've gotten for myself and from my clients. He's based in Austin. His company is called Black Box Social Media and he has a client list that, you know, reads like a VIP red carpet list made up of celebrities, reality show stars, Shark Tank contestants, this guy right here, and a lot more. So I encourage you to pay close attention. And if you want the full recording and video, just go over to baconratbusiness.com and once more, if at any time during this you want to get a hold of me, you want to email me any questions and go deeper on this or get a second opinion on what you're doing, reach out to me@askbradaconratbusiness.com without any further ado. Kurt, welcome to the show.

Hello, can you hear me?

I can hear you perfectly.

That's always my favorite way when people start out the podcast and people are like, hello, can you hear me? Yeah, you did a sound check. You already did that before, so yes.

We can hear you exactly. Well, man, it's been a pleasure to have you on my show. I know I was on your show and it's been a lot of fun and I've really enjoyed Working with you and being friends with you for years. And I'm excited to be able to share what we're doing together and some of these strategies that are so effective in Facebook marketing. So you've got a pretty interesting story. I don't want to necessarily bore everybody with your entire backstory and whatnot, but you've got a very interesting backstory as it pertains to Facebook in particular. Why don't you kind of give us, give us a little bit of that background and why it actually matters so much.

Yeah, I'll give you the high level view and dive into details if you'd like. But basically, in 2007, I was in the real estate. I got actually 2005, 2006, I was working with Microsoft doing some consulting. Got out of that and into sales, self employment, investing in real estate when the market was crashing, which was great. But while the market was crashing, as I started to learn how to run some ads on Facebook. And within a short amount of time, the market completely crashed and I was soon running ads for just small local businesses. And very quickly that turned into a chance meeting. Everything happens for a reason. On a radio show with a mutual friend that we know, Mr. Mike Dillard. So someone who had made millions of dollars online. And I am like, oh my goodness, this is amazing.

You like millions of dollars too? So you're like, I like money. You like, yes.

You got a lot of money. And I'm like, oh my, this is great. I was not broke at that time, sir. I was underfunded, didn't have any money. Right. I wasn't broken. I just didn't have any money. We developed a friendship and I started running ads for Mike Dillard, started creating my own little Facebook product. All of a sudden, fast forward three years later, I'm working with the who's who, speaking on stage, traveling all around the US Speaking on very specific topics on Facebook, and kind of doing this Facebook guru thing. I had an ad agency notice I said had 13 employees downtown Austin, Texas in June 2, 2015 at 4:18 in the afternoon. I remember that time well. I received an email that said from Facebook that says, hey, this is what we call a cease insist. I'm like, what is that? Well, instantly my personal profile was shut down. All of my employees working at the time, their personal profiles were absolutely shut down. Our fan pages were gone, our ad accounts were gone. And all the clients that we were working with, their ad accounts were still running, but we couldn't touch them. The legal letter said I had 12 hours to respond because I had confidential information from Facebook. I did not know what the heck they were talking about. I was not allowed to use a personal page, a fan page. I was not allowed to have any employees that would touch it or use a third party tool. So pretty much I couldn't use things like Instagram, Facebook, what's the other thing they own? WhatsApp couldn't use that because that was a Facebook property. Everybody wondered where did figure out the legal issues.

He's not on the interwebs anymore.

I am on stage one day with Internet training products and people from all over the world have seen my content and the next day I, I am gone. That's it. So I spent 888 days in purgatory. I sat on the sidelines, why I say this on stage presentations, why I was still written by in the Huffington Post as one of the top seven Facebook marketers to follow. I didn't have a Facebook account at that time. I legally couldn't even touch Facebook and people wanted to work with me from the sidelines. So I helped build businesses from the sidelines.

So long story short, you can go into some details or as much as you want, but what is it you did that got you in such trouble? Unless you are under NDA?

No, no. That's the great thing with Facebook is Facebook's like, you're going to sign this disclosure to make sure that you don't do anything, that you're going to go away. Are you 18 years old? Yes. You're not represented by our law firm? No. You're a U.S. citizen? Yes. You promised that you're not going to break the terms of use. And since there is no financial compensation to breaking the terms of use, you will pay a $40,000 fine payable within seven days when we send you the invoice. Don't do this again.

Yeah.

Sign this. And I'm like, you didn't say anything about not talking about it. So the big thing is, I'll say this with a caveat. Everything I'm going to tell you here is Facebook is open to their very own opinion. Now the interesting thing is that intellectual we get in this conversation is whose opinion is right. Because the thing is there are no case precedents with Facebook. If they want to remove me and wipe me off the planet, I, they can absolutely do that and I have no legal recourse.

Just like Alex Jones.

Yeah. And I'm never going to tell you anything that's immoral and unethical or anything else. I Just got caught up on some of the political side. But essentially, what ends up happening is November 2014, I had 18 AD accounts shut down from 18 different clients. So do the math. If I. Each client pays me four to $5,000 a month. I have 13 employees. Employees expect to get paid every two weeks. Clients expect, since they paid us, that we should be able to run ads on Facebook. And if we've spent millions of dollars for amazing people and customer service doesn't have a phone number, won't call you back, doesn't have an email, doesn't have a process. Well, I went on a very specific mission to say I work with brilliant people in the world, and I'm just looking for answers. We went to events with Facebook. We went. Anything that we could do to raise our hand, we did. Essentially, what ends up happening is there's an employee inside of our office at the time says, hey, I know someone at Facebook. Great. They take us to Facebook. The Facebook rep says, I'm gonna get you a rep. Sure. I've heard that for a long time. Like, Brad. I'm gonna ask you this question before I go on with my story. Yeah. If you know somebody who spent $8 million on helicopters, let's just say they bought $8 million in helicopters. Do you think someone would call them and say, hey, notice that you spent $8 million in helicopters? How about. How about surfboards? No. No. How about an airplane? What can you name that you could spend $8 million on and no one would call you?

Exactly.

So I was looking for customer service because they didn't have any, and they have all these unwritten rules that were being judged by my income, was being held by. And it's not about the money. I just want to do the right thing. But Facebook on the other side says, if we tell you how to do the right thing, that means you can circumvent and do the wrong thing. So I met a girl internally at Facebook, and Facebook said after 90 days that we had. What was the term? It was a relationship that violated their confidentiality. Now, Facebook never said what that was. They never said what she gave us or anything. I was sat on the sidelines for two and a half years, and I ended up dealing directly with the Facebook lawyer, where every 10 days, we would write an emotional letter, email. Not about, hey, look, I'm right. It's, hey, look, I love what Facebook's doing. I've been sitting on the sidelines. It's now been two years. I'd like to be able to restart my Business. Here's an article that. And I would appeal on an emotional basis until Facebook finally said and literally kind of wrapped up the story. The lawyer's like, okay, Kurt, fine. Don't ever do this again. Don't ever. Just, just, just, just. You didn't really do anything that's wrong. Just don't. And I go, what do we do specifically? And the lawyer goes, here's the deal. You were asking a lot of questions before they had customer service, and Facebook feels that you were profiting from selling your courses on sites that were illegal black hat sites. And I go, just to be clear, people steal my digital programs and sell them on black hat sites. I've never taught anything this against the terms of use, ever. Yep. So Facebook guy says, it's fine. The interesting thing is the way that I was turned off. It took a month and a half for him to figure out to find a different engineer and different people, because all the people that turned me off and walked away walked away from a process that's not really used. So now I am back fully on Facebook. You will find me on my own personal profile. You will find me with that logo behind me a lot. And you will see my videos everywhere, which we will talk about here in just a little bit.

Because of all this, you are probably the whitest hat cleanest Facebook marketer on the planet. Because you don't want to pay $40,000 for every time they get.

The interesting thing is this. We've been selling our digital product for over five years. Right when you open it up, people take the training today, and they're like, wait a minute. The screens are a little different. But does the strategy work? Oh, 100%. Because it's not one of those weird tricks. So Facebook's like, okay, you just gotta be really careful. And I'm like, be really careful. Did you look at any of my stuff? Because before, I never violated anything. And this is not. I'm not in trouble because my program violated something. It's because I talked to somebody internal. So again, Facebook, did you ever look at my stuff? And they're like, no. Anyway, we'll talk to you later. And that was two and a half years that I was sitting in solitary confinement.

That's hilarious. Hey, so speak. I want to digress over to another topic. And this is right before we get into the strategies that people should do.

I love to should all over people, by the way.

What's that?

I love to should all over people, by the way. It's very important.

Let's talk about what people should not do. Because I do know that you have a very recent and hot sports opinion on a strategy that some people are out there trying to convince other Facebook marketers in how to get social proof and get thousands and thousands of likes in a very short period of time to their website using various strategies. And I know you and I have talked about this before and you've railed against it, you know, trying not to name any names, you know, not trying that hard. But I called you out last night. But so let's talk about. Let's talk about one of these strategies that's being heavily promoted out there and some of the harm that it's actually doing to people, namely these Facebook like campaigns.

So here's the deal. I am a pretty opinionated person. Not because I know that I'm always right, should be right, but at the end of the day is, and you've been doing this for a long time, is I have knowledge and insight from lots of great industry leaders directly from Facebook, lots of different funnels and stuff like that. And there's a lot of really good people in the world doing some really good things. And one of the things that I love to do is to help people with a great message do some really great things in the world. Now with that being said, there are obviously people out there that like to sell things to make money in unethical ways. And that's cool. They can do whatever they want. And some people just kind of go out there and they just scam people. When they scam people. I'm not one of these conspiracy theorists that are jamming from the top of the mountain talking about, hey, this is a conspiracy theory. But when I see something that's wrong and I have the power to help change it and influence others, I'm happy to raise my hand and be like, don't ever do this. So the interesting thing is, specifically what Brad's referring to is I recently went out to an event, a very high end event, and I gave this speech in this video that said, don't ever do this. And then I realized that the person who I was talking about was at the event, speaking at the event. So it made it a little awkward.

You talked about that on stage, telling people not to do this strategy.

I did a Facebook live before I went on stage because I saw a post that basically said, just so everybody's caught up to the story that says, learn how to get 10,000 fans in 72. Hang on a second. 10,000 fans in 72 hours. Sorry, every time I say it, I throw up in my mouth a little bit because it's such a horrible strategy. So anyway, what happens is I talk about this horrible, what I like to call Bernie Madoff strategy. Now, just to be really clear, if you ever see an ad that says, learn how to get 10,000 fans in 72 hours, please remember the following. One, this is a scam. So your brain should immediately say, this is a scam. Number two, you should immediately think, why in the hell would I want 10,000 fans in 72 hours that are completely unqualified. Let me save you the $297 product that this person spends, which you do specifically. Now, Brad, this is going to be great. So Brad, you have lots of different businesses that you invest in. I really like that. If you don't mind, I'm going to. Can I talk about one of your businesses, the beer business? Can I talk about that for a second?

Go for it.

Okay, so you got this beer brewing business. Great. Now I'm kind of sort of interested in beer brewing. I may be interested because you're interested in it. Maybe it's called an affinity audience. So it's a friend who kind of hangs out in that circle. I know the people that you're doing business with. I'm kind of interested in that. So it's an affinity audience. Okay, I may like that stuff. Well, if you target beer brewers, man, these are people who definitely like it. Now, Brad, how many people have bought your, have joined your circle or bought any of your products who are 14 years old from the Philippines?

Right. None.

10 years old from. Sorry, not 10 years old. You have to be 14 years old. How about 18 years old from Indonesia? How about a 22 year old from Albania? It doesn't matter. What this person does is they say, look, if you can get 10,000 fans in 72 hours, you're gonna have the social proof for people to do business with you. Number one, big data says no such thing. Social proof does not lead to an roi. It just doesn't. We as silly monkey humans feel that, haha, somebody engaged with our stuff, it's gonna make us money. No, it's a shiny object.

So that's us feel better than it does. I mean, social proof is a very real thing in marketing. Legit social proof.

Right.

But ultimately I think that kind of social proof makes us feel better and it gives us those warm feelings as opposed to giving it to the prospective customer. Right?

Yeah. The whole thing is. We'll talk here more in just a little bit. Is you know, we leverage a 25, I always say this, a 27 or 38,000 year old technique. What we are doing right now, people are watching us on a video or listening to an audio and we're building a rapport with them scientifically, with the chemicals in their brain. We are building a report just doing this. I, I don't need a hook or I don't need someone. Like you made a perfect example. If someone goes and takes a look at your podcast right now, your top 10 podcasts that are on Apple, they don't know if there's a million views or 100,000 views. You just have no idea. But it doesn't really matter if you have a million views and no one listens to it. If you have a hundred views and they listen to the entire hour that we're talking about now, we're building some relationships. So that has nothing to do with social proof.

Nothing. Let me, let me ask you this. I kind of want to skip ahead on this because I don't want to go too, too long on this. But basically the strategy that the, this person, these people are telling is, correct me if I'm wrong, you probably are very much more familiar with it. They're teaching people to run Facebook ads to, I'm guessing, is it to content in all these foreign countries, to people where it's a lot cheaper to get?

Really easy. While I was going over the analogy here, do people all over the country buy it? Because see, what happens is they say, okay, Brad, you have this website for beer brewing. Great. Or this fan page for beer brewing. Now the first thing you want to do is get a bunch of social proof. So the way to get that social and you're like, okay, so the way to get that social proof, what you're going to do is you're going to go ahead and write a motivational statement like I love beer. Actually, you know what, that's actually a pretty target. So let's say I love puppies. That's it. Now what you're going to do is you're going to target worldwide 18 to 65 plus for 24 hours. And all of a sudden you are literally going to get likes for pennies. A sudden. And you shut it down after a day. Now what you're going to do is you're going to do a second motivational post or like campaign and you're going to run that like in the top 10 countries or 20 countries or whatever. And then all of a sudden now you're not getting likes for A penny. You're getting likes for like 10 cents. But now all of a sudden you have like 8,000 likes. So now, Brad, what you do is you now target California people who are interested in beer brewing because you have 20,000 likes on your page or 10,000 likes on your page. So you should have some social momentum to help target those local, just to be clear, and I know we'll move on. When you start out your situation with a lie, that's where I get frustrated. Because the Better Business Bureau will do this. They'll call you and say, hey, Brad, someone was looking up your business and you don't seem to be listed really specifically what business were they looking up? The Better Business Bureau doesn't know and they weren't telling you. They're lying. They're a for profit organization. That starts out as a lie. So when you start out your fan page as a lie to do business for social proof, I get a little angry and upset with it. Especially for people who exploit it and sell programs on it. It's the wrong, it's the wrong thing to do. It ruins all of your online marketing.

Well, now let me, let me ask you real quickly, and then we'll move on about the damage it does. So because, well, and you might be even able to enlighten me on some of that stuff. So let's say somebody goes out there and gets, runs one of these campaigns and now they've got 50,000, 100,000, whatever likes on what they get 10,000 likes in 72 hours. And these are not really targeted likes at all. Like, as we said, there may be from India and Philippines, et cetera, or even just around the country of people who aren't really interested in your stuff. What's the real damage? Like, what's the harm? Because I do know you rail against this and you've talked to Facebook and told them about this. You're like, yeah, that's crazy. But is it really harmful? Does it just.

I'm gonna give you two quick examples. Very easy. And by the way, this is one of the most hottest talked about topics that I have for Facebook lives and stuff.

That's why I'm bringing it up.

Yeah, people are like, oh, wait a minute. So. The first part of it is when this is done to the page, I want you to think of this as like a pond. It's your ecosystem. Facebook has all these analytics to know who reads what, looks at what, leaves what, whatever. It's a perfect pond. So if someone poops in the right hand side of Your pond. Do you still want to swim in the pond like you could? You cannot swim in one area, but the water still is going to be kind of icky. Right? Well, what ends up happening is this is when I'm targeting people. Just like I showed you right before the show. I'm targeting people mid funnel, meaning people have already engaged with me. If someone's liked my page in an ethical, moral way and they've done it the right way, I can create great lookalike audiences. I can't do that if the page is polluted with a bunch of people who don't like this. Now, I couldn't segment people out, but here's what ends up happening. The second quick story that really does the damage. This client doctor of mine comes to me. And by the way, this is very typical, FYI, for lots of people out there. The client comes to me, Brad, and says, hey, look, I have over a million fans on Facebook. And I'm like, okay, like, did you ever buy those likes? Yeah, I did, but we'll talk about that later. Hey, I'm available. I have over 57. My show broadcast over 57 different stations all around the world. Really? Yes. I got over a million people. I have syndication all the time. I get a lot of people coming to my site. I do a Facebook live once a week.

Great.

When we do, basically, the wife of the doctor would do a boost post worldwide to get all this engagement. And then what they would do is because they learned this program, they would get a bunch of engagement, but it would be from people in all these third world countries that were really bad. So when we started running ads and doing boost posts, a million people didn't see their content, less than 10,000 people did. So they have all this social proof. They have all these likes and comments. They have all these people who are engaging, but their actual target audience really wanted to target was so small and so corrupted that they couldn't get past the noise. It destroyed their page.

So is that because. Just to interject there is that because Facebook is seeing that, okay, this is really crappy engagement as a percentage of everything else. So we're going to start to show this to less and less people.

It's all about relevance. So here's. So here's what ends up happening. We still, I say, the silly human monkeys, right? We are like, hey, I'm going to game the system. There's 150,000 different equations in the algorithm. There are brain scientists to figure this out. I'm not any smarter because I get Somebody from Indonesia to like my page. I don't need 100,000 people to like me. You've been in this game for a long time and I, you know people that have email list over a million and you can't even get people to open the email. I just need a great relationship for a small number of people and that's what Facebook allows you to do. So gaming the system, why we have the best targeting system. We'll talk about this in a minute. Like with the Facebook lives. But we have the world's best targeting system. You only need a couple of people. You know, it's the worst strategy to run like you're gaming a system that doesn't need to be game.

Right.

You're giving a bunch of shit information to something that's running on high, you know, high, high quality fuel. You're pooping in the fuel tank, right?

Absolutely. So bottom line guys, don't do that, don't run these fake engaged like campaigns because it will simply just hurt you, not help you. There are ways to build social proof and to build likes and fans using legitimate content that you are putting out there. Right.

Like one small point by the way, social media adgenius, our fan page has less than 1500 people on it at the time of this recording. We've made hundreds of thousands of dollars off the page. It's not the social proof, it's the connections and the relationships that's the point.

Absolutely. Now let's get into some of the nitty gritty. Let's reward everybody who's kind of sat through this because this is the stuff that's really working now. This is very unique methods that are very effective. I've used them, you're using them. And there is a big paradigm shift and reframe that people need to do in order to really understand the way this works. And when I know when I did it and you explained this to me, I'm like oh my God, that makes so much sense. Especially in a vastly changing marketplace where traditional like Facebook ads to landing page, like to cold traffic don't really work anymore or if they do work, they're getting much more expensive. And I know in the past with some of my clients I would just try to, to create highly targeted interest based and demographic based audiences and send them to a webinar funnel, et cetera. And I just started to see the effectiveness go down and the cost go up and sometimes having to turn things off just because it didn't work anymore. But there are some things that are working and that's what we're going to talk about right now. So shift a couple paradigms, Kurt, the way that only you can do.

So a couple of things. We're going to start from a 10,000 foot view and then we can dive down this just a little bit more. Let's talk about. Well, first thing we have to talk about is please open your mind. Be open to new ideas and new possibilities. When I say that the reason I mean that is because we're going to change some belief systems. It's interesting how many arguments I get into, Brad, which is I'm not arguing with clients on math and facts, we're arguing now on belief systems. It's what old beliefs that we think that we should do versus what's actually working right now. So number one, we just covered social proof is not related directly to roi. It's okay to have social testimonials, but lots of likes and shares don't lead to big roi. We got that one. That's easy. Let's do the second one. Click through rate is not indicative of purchases, brand awareness or brand recall. Okay, let me say that in layman's terms because remember, I have a PhD, which is a public high school diploma. We're going to make this very simple, simple and easy. What happens is Big Data has shown us that if you have a higher click through rate, right, Many times Brad will run an ad and we'll say, hey, the higher click through rate means the more clicks. The more clicks means the more people to our page. The more people to our page, the more leads that we're going to get. How do we get a higher click through rate? Facebook? Big Data says actually higher click through rates do not lead to brand recall. They don't lead to purchase intent and they don't lead the purchase. So now that means that we're driving for a higher click through rate, which Facebook says, actually people who click are window shoppers. And the people who buy, 90% of people who buy don't click.

Right?

Holy shit. Wait a minute. Click through rates don't matter and clicks don't matter. Holy crap. How do we, how does this whole thing work? Well, people don't have to be clicking on anything right now when they're listening to the podcast. They're listening and they're consuming content. So what we're talking about is a Facebook tracking issue. Our silly, fun human monkey minds are like, we must get a lead today. Like you said you saw cost going up. Because what everyone wants to do is I have a New cattle funnel. I mean, a cattle call. I mean funnel where I'm going to make 20 different ads to make sure the exact same person clicks on one of the ads that hopefully should work. That goes to a landing page that hopefully that should work with the same headline and everything else. And hopefully the green button, yellow button, red button, that should work. And maybe somebody should opt in. Well, if all that stuff doesn't really matter and people can build a rapport, wait a minute. What happens if we don't even need opt in pages anymore and we can just build a report by video? We're going to talk about that more than just a minute. So social proof doesn't matter. Click through rates don't necessarily matter. Now we're going to talk about. We're going to talk a little bit more about social proof that will really blow your mind is because I believe most people are spending too much money on Facebook. Here's the interesting paradigm and the belief system change. And by the way, I've worked with tons of people over the last 10 years doing this. So whether you want to believe me or not, it's fine. But my phone will ring off the hook by some of the people I know that listen to the show and they're going to be like, wait, wait a minute. This didn't make any sense. What about. So Brad asked me any questions for clarification because it's as you said before we started, sometimes this is just so simple. It's like, what? Yep. So here's what ends up happening. What we're doing right now is we are running a strategy called the Hot 7 strategy. And what the Hot 7 is, and we have training videos on this. We're happy to give links in the show notes, but what we do is we're going to retarget people based on have they seen us in the last seven days? See what most people do, and you're going to get a visual aid on this. If you're watching this in the video, what most people do, and this is going to be the brain science of it. Most people are like, okay, I'm going to start running a webinar funnel for Brad's beer company. I'm going to start running 20 different ads. I'm going to test five different audiences. We're going to run to this one landing page and again, I'm going to make sure the buttons blue, green, yellow or red. The problem with us on Internet marketers is we're going to start and stop traffic all at that top of funnel. If it doesn't work right away or within a couple of days we're going to shut it down. The problem is, Brad, is we don't know. Was it our ad creative, was it the blue button, was it the green button, was it the headline? Or heck, maybe we didn't even check and see if it actually loads on mobile. That could be the reason. But we think it's the button color. There's so many variables, we just don't know. So what people do is they're going to start testing out a bunch of ads top of funnel. You may be doing this right now. Most people I talk to say they're doing this right now. You test out a bunch of ads top of funnel. Well, Brad, as you know, this is, let's just say that again. You test out 10 ads to four different audiences, well, only one or two of those combinations are gonna work. So if 90% of your ads don't work top of funnel, most people set up retargeting ads and say, hey, 10% off or hey, opt in again, that's it. And they're like, hey, I ran a bunch of ads, it didn't work. I ran it to my website, didn't sell anything. Right. It's a little more complicated than that. What we do is we start bottom of funnel. So the very, very bottom of funnel, someone's going to go buy your beer machine, you know, your beer processor, they're right at the sales page. We start thinking about what do people want to see bottom of funnel. Like if they're right on the sales page. Right. Screw everything else. At this point we're just talking about very, very bottom. They went to the sales page and they were looking at your sales page and they didn't buy. What would they want to see? Well, most people want to do a 10% off coupon. But what I want to see is I want to see some social proof. When I go to Amazon, I'm going to look for some five star reviews. So if I run some ads that are image ads that showcase testimonials and some five star reviews, that's what people look for naturally on Amazon. What else they look for? Testimonials. Let's run some testimonials. Bottom of funnel.

And by the way, I just want to interject here real quickly, just for everybody else's sake, we're using terminology that some people may not understand. There is a concept called top of funnel, middle of funnel, bottom of funnel. And I'll just take the liberty to explain it. Bottom of the Funnel. I mean, they come into the top, right? They're not really aware of who you are, the problem, or the solution, and you're just trying to get awareness. Middle of the funnel is you're starting to build rapport, relationship, trust, know, like, and trust you. And then bottom of the funnel, they kind of like you. They think that potentially they want to buy what you've got. They come to your sales page, maybe they've come to your order form, and they're about ready to buy. But for some reason, they just didn't squeeze out the very bottom of the funnel. So you just have to kind of understand it's based upon their awareness, rapport, and intent. Much like if you're going to, you know, you walk into a. If you're a single guy, you walk into a bar, you know, you see a beautiful woman. Well, if she doesn't see you, that's top of the funnel. You got to first get her to see you. Then you got to go, you know, maybe walk over and talk to her. Then you got to have a conversation and make her kind of like you before you try to get her phone number or go on a date with her. So I. I don't know why I always go to dating. Dating and relationships.

Let me say this. I was explaining this to David Gonzales the other day. Really quite interesting. And I go like, here's the best way to explain it. Imagine that you own Brad's grocery store. Now, what happens is, lots of people are always concerned with, how do I get more people to the store? And I'm always saying, okay, they're gonna get to the store. What are they gonna buy? When you're at your store and you're like, let's figure that out later. No, we should figure that out first. But the best thing that you can do before we even figure out what you're going to sell, you already have people that come in the store, put something in the shopping cart, go into the checkout aisle to check out, and they're like, crap, I forgot my wallet. Those are the easiest people to market to. It is like, hey, Brad, I tell you what, you can just buy this on store credit. You already have everything in your checking card. We just got to figure out that last couple of seconds or that last step. But what so many people do is they're like, no, no, no. We just got to get more people into the store. That's top of funnel. No, you don't need more people in the store until you figure out, once they come into the store, Like Whole Foods. What are you first going to see? Like, it doesn't matter what I'm going to buy. I'm going to go buy some beer and some cereal that's way at the back of the store. So I have to walk through all the different offers. So I want to start. Like, Whole Foods doesn't open up their doors and say, hey, everybody, come in. And then they start putting food on display and stuff like that. They have all the display laid out. The very last thing that they do is they build the store, they get everything lined up, then they bring in traffic. So you want to think about your. You want to think about your traffic the same way. So you think about this bottom of funnel. So again, people come into your store, they're basically ready to buy. What content do they see to just push them a little bit more? Now, what most people do is a 10% off coupon or that one testimonial, and then they retarget for a couple of days, and that's it. Really bad marketers will retarget permanently. If you didn't opt in. They'll say, opt in, opt in, opt in, opt in until you die. What we do is we change the whole thing. We change the entire paradigm. See, nobody goes to Facebook to buy anything. And depending where you're at in the country is, you may be getting these magazines or these newspapers called the Penny Saver. Now, the Penny Saver is something that comes out once a month that is full of ads, nothing else. It's usually used as kitty litter in bird cages to clean up crap. And maybe some people who like to clip coupons. If you only run ads to your offer, that's how people will treat your offer. You'll turn your ads off and on. No one's going to be interested. You're not building a relationship.

They call it banner blindness. You just stop seeing the advertisements. You scroll right on by it.

It's kind of like the people you see stand out on the corner with signs that say, shop in my store. There's no other information. I don't know anything about you going out of business. That doesn't make me want to shop there any bit more, right? Like, not at all. So what happens is, is Facebook has over 150,000 different equations in the algorithm. So what that means is I don't have to figure out the perfect ad. Hell, I don't even have to figure out the perfect copy. I don't even have to figure out the perfect audience. I just have to put out content. So for example, we are 30 minutes into the interview at this point. 35 minutes into the interview at this point. I think there's some people so far, but go ahead three hours so far. Some people have dropped off. Some people continue to want to listen. Now Brad and I can sit here and talk about the math and science of what it takes to get people to listen to our entire interview. Facebook's already figured all this out. So we want to harness the power of Facebook. I don't have to beat. This is why I get so passionate about hacks like the, like hacks. All I have to do is some of the right things which I'm going to tell you to do. I don't have to do all these hacks because Facebook's going to figure it all out. What Facebook wants to do is basically this. I live like right next to the Austin American Statesman. The newspaper, now the newspaper. I want you to imagine this for a second. This is really going to help hone the whole thing in the newspaper. For example, they have a newspaper editor. You have an online editor and you have a newspaper. The offline editor, the offline editor has to take an educated guess on what headlines are going to work best, what pictures are going to work best. That's their guess because they're paid to do that position, whatever. Hopefully people buy this stuff. An online editor is different. Where the writers write the story, the online editor spins the headlines over and over and over to get people to come to click to the site and read the content. So newspapers are up in arms with Facebook saying Facebook, we're trying to get people to click on the ad or click on our website and come to our website. Facebook saying, you don't have to spin headlines, you don't have to spend any of this stuff. You don't have to make up stories. We have a 150,000 part algorithm that as long as you just tell a good story, we'll figure it all out for you. So for you as a producer, all you have to do is, is you just have to, you just have to produce good content. That's it. So you're gonna love this. What ends up happening is this. So we have just a second. What we do is we start running mid funnel and let's see basically what happens is this. So most people are just going to go ahead and retarget back and forth to say hey, opt in. Well, if Facebook has the world's best content or the best content searcher and targeting, what I'm going to do is two things you know, I have trainings on this. First of all, I'm going to retarget people every conceivable way I can in the last seven days. We can set up basically people who visited our website, people who became a lead, people who became a sale, people who watched a video, engaged with our fan page, went to our fan page, watched a video. There's all these different ways we're going to set it up. We call our hot seven. So our hot seven is literally anybody who lands into our spider web for the last seven days is going to see our content. Well, what content is that? Well, instead of me writing the perfect ad with the perfect hook just to see if they're going to want to see this one blog article like Brad did, I write the best blog article. Well, what I'm going to do is I have 20 different videos. They're interviews, they're Facebook lives. They could be two minute videos, they could be blog posts, but I'm gonna run 20 different posts regardless of their videos or written whatever. 20 a day at a dollar a day. That's it. I run at a dollar a day. 20 different posts and that dollar a day. I'm literally spending a dollar a day. I'm running to that Hot 7 audience. So now I want you to imagine that you see an offer of mine, they see an offer, they click, they go to my landing page and they don't opt in. Well, they're going to see an ad that says, hey, opt in again. But now they're also going to see an ad at the perfect time, the perfect place. They're going to see an interview with Brad and I for 12 minutes. It costs 22 cents to have someone spend. What do we see? What did we see? What did you say? Was it seven minutes?

I wrote it down. Yeah, I mean, we actually. You got to the point where, and this is one of the things that Kurt and I were talking about on the strategy that he's doing with me, where he interviewed me on his show and it was a 12 minute interview, then with a call to action elsewhere, but we ended up getting people to watch all 12 minutes. And this is the paradigm shift that I'm talking about, guys. All 12 minutes of our interview. All 12. In today's attention starved economy for 50 cents a person, a lot of people would be thrilled just to have an email cost 50 cents. Right? They just like, oh man, if I could just get 50 cent leads. And that's just an email. Well, as we all know, with squeeze pages and with a lot of the strategies out there, we offer this bribe that, hey, you get this free checklist. And they come over there, they enter their email. Sometimes it's a fake email, but when it's real, just to get this checklist and they don't consume anything else, they flip through the checklist. We've all done this, and we go, okay, is it useful? Is it not? That's fine. But at no point do I have a relationship with you. Even if that's a $0.01 lead, there's no real relationship there. So it doesn't push it forward. But to illustrate your point, we got somebody to watch 12 minutes of you and I bullshitting and bantering for 50 cents only. Which means that if they watch both of us and they stayed in tune with us, do we think that we've got a better relationship with them for the next piece of content, for the next offer? Yes. So did I explain that correctly, Kurt?

100%. Because the thing is, what we do as humans is we're like, hey, maybe we can write this long form sales page with 5,000 words. I wish I could spell even five letter words. Like, my spelling is horrible. But there's a scientific way that you can write emails or you can write sales letters, or there's these colors on landing pages, how you can do all these different things. And I've been studying that stuff for years. But I'm no expert like Frank Kern. Like, I'm no copywriting aficionado like Andre Chaperone, But I can record a video and we can have a conversation like this as a podcast. Whether you sell air conditioners or online dating, whatever, you have customers. They're humans. You talk to them to do business with them. We overcomplicate it online. So at the end of the day, if Facebook has this algorithm that finds the perfect person, people are like, kurt, what do you mean you only spend a dollar a day? Because we're forcing Facebook to find the right person in that Hot 7 audience that, like, Brad saw. Like, you, literally, wow, wait a minute. We had like 60 people watch and it cost us 20 cents. Would you rather spend 20 cents to have someone watch you for 10 minutes? I mean, it's like a dollar to usually get back to your website, right?

And I think that really is the key. Is that the shift of. Because I can put out content. And this does not matter if you're a SaaS, if you're a physical product company, if you're a coach or you're a consultant, professional Service provider, accountant, CPA, etc. We live in a time and age now where people are really wanting to know like and trust the person the company they're buying for and the fact that we can capture their attention and build a brand that we've never been able to do by focusing on just adding value and building connection with people and starting to think of how can I take my content, put it in front of them and get them to just consume it. Because the one thing we know is if they're consuming, they're building a brand, a bond because if they don't like what I'm doing and what you're doing, they're going to go off because there are a million other distractions that people can go do. So the fact that we've got somebody to watch like 12 minutes of us is huge. So then I just kind of want.

To know that's a brand new person who's never seen us before.

Right. So then I actually love recapping your strategies here because it helps re solidify it in my mind, which is we start at the bottom of the funnel. We started the people who've already been to the site, the page, the checkout page, etc. We create ads for them. It's the lowest hanging fruit, the closest of cash, and that's probably the easiest of all the ads to set up. The next thing we do is we go middle of the funnel as opposed to going for new people. We create that hot seven and that hot seven and once more we'll give people access to some extra training on this. Are the folks who have engaged with an ad, engage with our page, visited our page, sent us a message, done all of these other engagement activities in the past seven days, am I correct? Right now these are people who not only are paying attention, but they're paying its recency as well. You're getting recent attention to you and you continue to build this out. Let's say we've got 20 pieces of content running at a dollar a day and they'll see some, they'll see others. At any point if I'm running an offer to them, I can run a quick little video with. By the way guys, I'm doing a special training or special workshop. I've got this product, do you want to buy it? And if I'm putting it to that really hyper targeted group who keeps on seeing me everywhere, the likelihood there is a direct correlation there between like a highly engaged audience and an ROI, brand recall, etc. That you don't get with simple click through rate. Am I Summing up the Curt Molly framework pretty well.

Yeah. What's really quite interesting is like when we started off the conversation is, you know Facebook, big data says that people don't have to click to buy. Well if that means if they're not clicking on ads, well what are they doing? So they're watching and consuming. So people are watching and consuming what? Well we don't really know if they scroll down a long post. Long post working great. But we can quantify consumption with video that we've never been able to do before.

So now we can watch, we know.

We can say, we can look at literally at the math. And I have whole training on this which is it's a dollar to go to my website. When they go to my website, the average visits 30 seconds. So I get a dollar for 30 seconds on my website. But for a dollar someone will watch Brad and I for 15 minutes. Let's do this. And I know I'm not going to see website clicks. Go back to my website a ton. You will see some video views do that. But you just know that okay, this doesn't lead to a direct ROI. But wait a minute, they spent 15 minutes with me. Now I'm going to be able to retarget those people. So for example is right now we're running a special to teach people how to do messenger bots right now. So instead of me holding a webinar where I target a cold market, get as many opt ins as possible, run over five days, do a webinar, send out the replay, try to see if people pay $1,000 and then that doesn't work or if it does work and then just send regular emails instead. What I do is I'm always running like Brad Nye's interview, top of funnels. People have never seen us. They watch four or five minutes, they don't have to do anything. Now all of a sudden they see my hot seven. So they're going to see another interview with a friend of ours, Ron Lynch. They're going to see another interview I did with David Gonzalez. They're going to see an interview I did with a CEO of Messenger Bot. I also have six other videos that are talking about messenger bots. So I can turn off all the dollar a day videos that don't talk about messenger bots. So Now I have 10 videos that are running to my hottest audience. And what do people see they don't see? Sign up for bots, sign up for bots, sign up for bots. What they see is man, Kurt's Been talking to a lot of people about bots. There's a lot, like, there's a lot of information. Oh, I've been noticing he's been talking about this webinar. We should check out the webinar so it's not intrusive. Like, who is this person? It's, wow, I see lots of people talking about lots of subjects with Kurt. Wow. For the last week, it seems like they're really talking about bots and then sending him into the webinar. We're spending a lot less money and I showed you my ad stats and we're having a much bigger success.

Right. Well, and that's the whole thing. You only go to the top of the funnel after you've built some engagement. I mean, you were mentioning when you showed what you were doing with our interview, you said, you know, hey, I started off our little interview and this was like, I know, it was a little test. Started off at like $5 a day. Just boost it and we're going to see how many people we can get to watch it. And then we're going to drop it down to a dollar day, get it in rotation, keep it to that middle of the funnel audience. And once we start to get this video that, hey, listen, it is actually, it's working. It's not a terrible video. People are watching this. Then you take that out to the top of the funnel, right. Then you take it out to the interest lists you build. People who like, you know, digital marketer, entrepreneur, etc. So you've kind of already proven it or disproven it in the middle of the funnel. Because if you can't get a good piece of content to work in the middle of the funnel for people who've already watched your stuff, there's a good chance that it's not going to work. Top of funnel too, right?

100%.

Cool.

Here's the big thing. Why do people split test 10 different AD types? You don't even know if your offer is going to work yet. So now you're split testing 10 different offer types or ad types. You're split testing it to a page where you're trying to change the yellow button to the green button. You don't even know if it's going to work. So you're constantly just retargeting test crap traffic.

Absolutely. So one of the things I want to do, if you're a game, I want in a moment to start, I want you to share your screen and I want to go into, would you be willing to share some of the behind the scenes action.

Sure. I have PowerPoint presentations. We can talk about a couple of those. I can show you the ad account. Yeah.

So before we do that, I want to, I want to change things up here for my, for my listeners and folks. So if you're just listening to the podcast on here, I am going to actually we're going to end the podcast here in a moment but it's going to be to be continued because I'm going to put a link on the page and in the show notes it here. I don't know what that is yet where you're going to be able to go deeper. But we are going to cut the podcast interview here off and I'm going to put the rest of it.

A.

Little bit privately because we're going to go in, we're going to share some of the stuff that Kurt is doing. He's going to give you the real behind the scenes etc. And whatever. If there's a link on here, if it's in the Facebook post where I'm sharing this or YouTube video or in the show notes of the podcast, I want you to click on that and you can continue to get the real, really, really good stuff. Alright. So but for anybody who doesn't do that, Kurt, let's do a temporary end. If people want to just say screw this, I'm sold. I want to learn this. How do they get more information from you personally?

Two ways. They can either reach out to me on Facebooks directly, they can actually message me. I check those every once in a while.

How do they buy your stuff?

The second thing is they go to smag 2. The number 2 so S M A G that is social media ad genius. The number 2.com live L I V E Now when they go to forward slash live they're going to be taken to the Facebook Live product that I have. It's $47. It talks about the exact video strategies we talked about here. Talks about how I interview an infomercial expert who Brad has also interviewed, which is Ron lynch shows you how to.

Set up that fire strategy just to interview him. It's okay.

And also if you decide to pick it up for 47 bucks, we also give you access to our training program that gives you access to all of this stuff. It's social media adgenius. You get a free 30 day access and then if you like it, we can give it to you for 47 bucks a month. Usually it's 97 bucks a month but it's one of those things like you watch it and you're like, hey, this is great. And then you use it. Great. If you don't use it, you can cancel, you can do whatever you want. But if you want to access and do exactly everything that we were just talking about, I have it all set up, set up in trainings, by the way.

Don't walk back towards your back wall while you're talking because then people can't hear you.

Oh, then it fades out. I usually have a headset.

Yeah, I know, I know you like to pace, but stay up by that microphone. So. Smag2.com live guys, I personally have access to everything Kurt's done, obviously. And I can tell you that not only is it insanely good cutting edge, and he makes it very simple to understand, it is also insanely underpriced. And Kurt and I do a lot of work together. I'm trying to get Tim to 10x his rates on what he's doing because this is so cutting edge that it's too cheap. But as of the time of this video and moment, I do highly recommend you go buy it before I teach him how to charge an arm and a leg for this stuff. That being said, I want to encourage everybody to go do that. This is the time on the podcast where the part one is over and wherever the link is going to be, we're going to continue this inside, potentially a Facebook group or just inside an email. But say bye to everybody for this part or say, see you on the other side.

Thanks, everybody. See you on the other side.