Why You Might Just Need A SHOW with Mark Kaye

All right, welcome back to bacon wrapped business. This is Brad Costanzo and I have got a fun, epic sizzle. That's right. We don't have episodes. We have epicizzles for you. Today I have got a guest named Mark K. On the show. And before I bring Mark on, I want to tell you a little bit about the what and the why that we're doing and kind of the background about how I stumbled across Mark and how his humor is the first thing that kind of brought me in. First of all, the topic of today's episode really is how to use a show to build influence, authority, and access to people that you might never have ever thought that you could get a hold of. This is one of the best benefits that I've experienced in the past three and a half years since I've been hosting bacon wrap Business is the access and the influence of which you hear me talk a lot about that. It's given me primarily through the guests that I get to interview, but also through my listeners like yourselves. And I can't tell you how much I love hearing from every one of you. The best place I like to hear from you is obviously on the itunes reviews for selfish reasons. But in every episode, you'll hear me give out my email address, which is askbradakenrapbusiness.com where I encourage you to send me some of your most stumping business questions and things, things that are frustrating you. Whether it's you're looking to grow an aspect of your business or you're just looking to get unstuck, I may be able to give you a second opinion that will help out. But that being said, this is the show that allows me to do that. And I came across a video a few weeks ago or months ago, I want to say, and it was, and I'll put a link to the video in the show notes because you've got to see it. And it's all about what every Internet marketing video looks like. Something like that. And it was hilarious. And then the video went on to make fun of all of the idiocy going on in the and the hype going on in the Internet marketing world. And then he offered to sell you absolutely nothing. Absolutely nothing. But I got on his list and after that I started to pay attention to what he was doing. And Mark K. Who was the author of the video and today's guest, then shared another video that I'll also put in here entitled you are not Gary Vee. And as a fan of Gary Vee, it Got my attention. And I was watching what he was saying and he said, listen, you're not Gary Vee, but you don't need to be, you just need a show. And he started to talk about the differences between a show, a podcast, an interview, and quite literally his bullet copy on his sales page for his product. A thousand shows showing people how to create something just like this, maybe way better, hooked me in. I bought his product, I went through it. Even though I've got a show, I wanted to see what he's doing because I really liked his approach to things. That's how I got to meet today's guest, Mark K. So that being said, Mark, welcome to bacon wrap business.

Wow, you made me sound so much better than I actually am. I appreciate that.

Yeah, well, as I mentioned, I definitely want people to go click the links in the show notes and watch the initial videos. That got my personal attention to want to not only just invite you on the show, but even give you money.

Yeah, no, I appreciate both of those things.

So let's, let's go into a little bit of background about before we jump into this, about yourself. Like you have a show, you're a broadcaster. Are you on the radio as well that I see?

Yeah, I've been a radio broadcaster pretty much all, you know, ever since I graduated college and realized I needed to make money. And I've done television as well, you know, for years. I've worked in several different markets. A few years ago I started filling in nationally for Herman Cain who ran for president for a while. And you know, it's, you know, paid the bills, put a roof over my head, paid for my kids private school. So that was great. But a few years ago I ventured into social media more than more and more, you know, than I had before, especially Snapchat, which, you know, for at the time was the big app. It was about three or four years ago.

Right.

You know, my audience on the radio is younger, we play a lot of younger music and I need to target a 22 year old female demographic. So I got on Snapchat and I played around with it and pretty soon I realized I was horrible at it. I can't draw, you know, I wasn't really sure what I was doing, but I read an article about a couple guys who were making serious dough on Snapchat with brand stories and with advertising. And so, you know, I'm always, I'm a capitalist first. So I was always intrigued by people who could use their cell phone and their creativity to make money. So what I did was I revamped my own Snapchat formula, and I created the first talk show on Snapchat called Talking Snap. And I got a big, huge write up in Business Insider. I started getting flown all over the country. I started doing brand deals of my own. And a few hundred thousand Snapchat followers later, I had actually kind of become a Snapchat celebrity and who interviewed other Snapchat celebrities. And they even called me Business Insider, the Jimmy Fallon of Snapchat. So that's when I really focused a lot on Internet marketing and using social media and Facebook Live and YouTube and all these things to create a show, because that's all I'd done. I took what I do for a living, which is do a talk show, and I just put it onto an app, and that's what really made me successful. And when I looked around, I realized that's what made everyone else successful too. Gary V. Being the prime example with Wine Library tv. And that is something that, you know, turned him into probably the first or at least the most well known viral video star nowadays, as you pointed out in the video, you know something, and, you know, I consider it paying homage to Internet marketers. Not so much poking fun, although some of the trolls would say otherwise. But with the Gary Vee video, you know, I just looked around, and every time you're on Facebook, every time you see somebody vlogging, you just realize this person is trying to be Gary Vee. And they, you know, they don't need to do that. They need to do their own. The only thing they need to do that Gary Vee did was create a show. Well, let's explore that.

I just want to stop you right there, because there can be a difference for people who don't really understand, because like you mentioned, there's a lot of people trying to be Gary Vee. So let's dive a little deeper there. Like, where do you. What do you see people doing? And they're trying to be Gary Vee, but they're missing the point of what made Gary Vee Gary Vee.

Well, when you look just esthetically at a lot of people's vlogs, you know, the New York scenery, the jump cuts, the dark music, you know, the Uber rides, talking to the camera in the airport, wearing hoodies, cussing all the time, that kind of stuff. And, you know, and it's. I get it, it's a formula and it works. And you're supposed to emulate formulas that work, but you're also supposed to infuse your own personality and not just try to be somebody else. You know, you see a lot of it, too, with Tai Lopez, people trying to be Grant Cardone, all the big names that pay a lot of money for Facebook ads.

Yes.

The thing with Gary Vee, though, is people are right to want to have a show. People are right to say, I've got a message. I've got to deliver it every day, build a huge audience, and then make a lot of money. That is 100% accurate. What you don't want to do is try to be the character that somebody else is, because you are already your own best character.

No. Okay. Yeah. It makes perfect sense. And it's where I see a lot of people kind of stumbling up there is they want to emulate the people that are doing what they want to do. But then, you know, there's a difference between copying and imitating and using the essence of what they're doing to kind of break that down and say, okay, it's not that I have to be exactly like this person, but I kind of use the framework that they've set out and explain the diff. Because in the. On the sales page, for instance, and in your messaging, you. You talk about, for God's sakes, no more like, please God, no more podcasts. You don't need another podcast. You don't need another vlog. But then you're. And you don't, you know, you definitely don't want to do another Facebook Live either. So you're saying, don't do all this stuff, but then you're showing people kind of how to do it, but you're, you know, under the framework of a show. So how do you really. How do you really delineate between a show versus, like, a podcast, a vlog, a Facebook Live series, etc. What is. What should people really think about when they understand the differences?

Yeah, and that's something that a lot of people, you know, they write to me and they go, I really don't understand what you're talking about. But, you know, it goes back to one of my very first radio jobs. I got hired in Washington, D.C. to do a morning show. And I was in the studio, and I. The morning show ends at 10am and then another DJ comes in to take over. And there was. The regular DJ was out. I think she called in six. So this other guy who I knew came in and he was like, hey, how you doing? I go, oh, great. Good to see you. And our boss was hanging out, too. The guy who was in charge of the radio station, the program director. And we were all just kind of, you know, shooting the breeze. And I said, I go, by the way, what are you doing here? And he said, oh, I'm here to do the next shift. And my boss who overheard that just kind of stopped and said, wait a minute, what. What did you just say? And he goes, I'm here to do my. I'm here to do the next shift. And my boss went ballistic. He just freaked out on the guy. And he was like, you are. This is not a factory. You are not paid to do a shift. You're not clocking in, you're not clocking out. We don't. You're not creating toasters here. What you're doing is you're going on the radio and millions of people are listening to you and they are having crappy days and they're stuck in traffic. And your job is to entertain them, to put a smile on their face, to make them forget their worries. Your job is to get their attention long enough to. To keep them from changing the station and going somewhere else where they're gonna get the entertainment that you're supposed to be providing. He said, you are not paid to do a shift. You are supposed to do a show for the next four hours, your job is to put on a show. And then he stormed out. And I was sweating and panicky and he wasn't even yelling at me. But I always remembered that. And I think the other guy did too, by the way. That was the last time I ever saw that guy at the radio station. But I, you know, and that stuck with me. And every time I go into a studio, I go, my job is not to talk on the radio. Radio is a device to deliver a message. The message needs to be poignant and exciting and emotionally charged, and it needs to connect with people on a deep, subconscious level. And it needs to get them to do something, whether it's keep listening or opt in or buy a product. And the only way you're going to do that is if you put on a show. And it can be a podcast, a live stream, a video. Those are delivery systems. You know, it's like saying a podcast is like saying, I'm writing you a letter. Okay, Is it going to be black ink on white paper or is it going to be a 14 page color laminated flyer with a coupon attached to it? That's the difference, I think, between, you know, a podcast, a live stream, a video, and a show.

That, yeah, that makes perfect sense. So when you started to build your show outside of radio, you started on Snapchat, right?

That's right.

Did that bleed over into other channels? Are you doing. Do you have a podcast? Do you. Are you doing anything regularly elsewhere? Are you still hitting Snapchat really hard right now? Like, what. What is your. What is yours? The Marc K Show ecosystem look like? Like, right now?

That's a great question. You know, and it keeps changing, just like the Internet does, you know, as. Whereas I said Snapchat, Snapchat three years ago was the place to be for brands, and every brand just knew they had to be on Snapchat. So they were throwing a lot of money at a lot of different people, and they didn't know what they were doing. There was no way to gauge return on investment. Then, of course, they got wise and they realized they don't know how to see if there's any roi, so we're going to stop paying as much. But then I transitioned kind of into training, because what I learned was there was a lot of opportunity for people to come and speak about Snapchat. And I got flown all over the world. I went to Germany to speak at a summit about Snapchat. I went to Las Vegas, Dallas. Everyone wanted somebody to come and explain this weird thing to them. And that was great for about a year or two. And then what I started doing was transition more into podcasting myself and also Facebook Live. Facebook seems to be the steadfast, always faithful, always there, and always growing and able really just to beat down any competitor, even though it may take a little bit of time. So that's where I kind of focused my efforts. In January of last year, I started a podcast, which was a political talk show based on kind of what I did for Herman Cain. And it was daily. I Facebook lived it as well, and I published it on YouTube. And it grew so fast that it started surpassing the podcasts being created by the company I work for. And they weren't really happy about that. So one day, after about two or three months of creating this podcast, which I thought was incredible and had a huge listenership and was just, you know, skyrocketing up the charts, they pulled me into an office and they very politely explained to me, with lawyers present, that they didn't need me competing with them. And so I politely stepped aside from that. And I've been working with them on some other projects, but that's when I went back into teaching. This time, instead of traveling around the entire world, I do it from the comfort of my own home and I do it with my Facebook group and my private videos and the 1000 shows program, which, as you've seen, you're a part of. And, you know, that's kind of where my. That's kind of where I'm based right now, privately. And then of course, I do also am also, you know, employed by a company and we make some great products with their help as well.

Oh, that's fantastic.

So.

What are the, what are some of the ways that. Because I know that there's a lot of people listening who would love to emulate, you know, this show, their favorite shows, you know, all of this, and they want to get going. What do you think is, number one, kind of the biggest hurdle they face, and then number two, the best way for them to get that initial momentum of listeners, of traffic. Because it's one thing to kind of just put out, you know, put your content out there. And in the past, it was a lot easier to get noticed, like on new and noteworthy on itunes and all this other stuff. And it's becoming much more crowded. So, a, what do you think is the biggest hurdle keeping people from doing this? And then B, the best way to get that initial momentum and boost?

Well, I think what I've learned over the years of doing this in all sorts of different medium is people always kind of start with an idea like, oh, I want to do a podcast or, oh, I'm going to start live streaming. And then it takes them a long time to gain traction to figure out what they're going to talk about to see if who their audience is. And then they want to make money and they have no idea what to sell. So I always tell people to kind of flip it around. It makes it a lot easier. Instead of starting with a show, start about. Start with what you want to sell. Like, you know, you need to know your product. And once you come up with your product, whether it's a service or an e book or an actual physical product, that's what you should start with. And then you look at your audience and say, okay, now who's going to buy this product? And okay, great, so now I know who the consumer is. And now I can kind of tailor, make content that is kind of custom designed for them. And if you have a product, you know your market and you know what kind of content they want to create, creating the content is so easy. A great example of this, and one that I go back to all the time, is the old infomercials with Billy Mays, who sold everything and every, every Infomercial works that way. And it works brilliantly because it starts with the product, then they take the product and they go, okay, we need to figure out who the Mighty Putty. Who's this for? All right, Mighty Putty is for some guy in suburban. You're working in a garage and he doesn't want to weld a pipe every time it cracks. We're just going to, you know, wrap it up. Or he's got a hole in his boat and he doesn't want to have to replace his old boat. We'll just. So they create these great visual images of Billy Mays drilling holes in a boat and then filling him with Mighty Putty and going water skiing. And you know, the same thing with Oxiclean. There was that big visual image of a vat of red dye and you throw the Oxiclean in and all of a sudden everything's clean. Where did the dye? It's all gone. Right, so this is. That was a show. I mean, that was a 30 minute show that was targeted to a specific audience and sold them a specific product. And I think if more people go into their podcasts and their live streams and their vlogs and even their email sequences when they're putting together an email, you know, I say email should be a show too. So whatever content you're creating, flip it around. Don't just try to build an audience. Start with the product and then find consumers who are interested in that product and it's a lot easier. As far as the new and noteworthy and the best selling list, I think those are the worst goals for someone to have because you're gonna, you're gonna put a lot of time and effort and energy into it and there's very little return. There's so many people that make it on the new and noteworthy, but in the end, you never sell anything. I'd rather have 20 people watching my show who pay me $100 a month than 100,000 people who don't pay me anything.

That's a great point now, but is there a way that you recommend that once people have their show, they've got a few episodes out there that they should be working more? So granted, I know that budget matters, but. So if you have a big budget, you can buy advertising, you can do all this other stuff. Life is grand when you can do that. But some of the ways to start to get publicity for your show that don't involve a big ad spend and especially to get little bit of that traction. I say this also because I Know that a lot of people, if they put something out, they put a lot of work into it. They put it out and it flops. It gets really discouraging to keep going at it. And very few people have an overnight hit.

Oh, man. If you can, if you can learn, if you can ignore all your flops, then you definitely will be successful. It's so frustrating, especially when you have, you know, you wake up in the middle of the night with that great idea and you're like, oh, I'm going to start this right now and it's good. Be my million dollar idea. And we all have 5,000 of those. You know, if you, if you can just forget about it, if you can ignore it and move on to the next, that's golden. A couple things, if you don't have the budget, I mean, the Gary Vee video again, and if you link to that is a great example. This is something I knew as I was producing it. I knew would get shared. The marketing video too. I knew that would get shared because I knew the audience so well. I'm in these digital marketing groups, I work with digital marketers. I, you know, I watch their videos, I buy their products. I know the kind of, the stereotypes and all my videos and all my humor kind of plays off that stereotype, which is just a way to basically, if somebody is the stereotype, they're going to share it because they can totally relate to it. So I packed every Gary Vaynerchuk stereotype I could into a 90 second video and that helped it go viral. Now I did put some money into it too, because I started selling and, and the best thing you can do is if you sell a product that's 100, $200, something that's low end, which for most people buying online is low end, then you can dump even half of that back into Facebook ads and see an incredible return. So, I mean, the Gary Vaynerchuk video I've been sponsoring every day for gosh, it's been like two, maybe three months and I haven't done anything with it. And I keep, every day I get new members, I get new people joining my 1000 shows program. And it's just been phenomenal. So anything you can do to get that kind of viral impact, if you're looking for bigger publicity, I'll give you one of my favorite tips. And this is how I got. I got written up one year in Business Insider, MTV News, AOL.com and it was all from this one simple tip. If you go to Google and you Go to Google Alerts. Just type in whatever your broad topic is. For example, I did Snapchat, and every time there was an article or a blog post or a video about Snapchat, Google sent me an email. And what I did was I looked at the authors of all these blogs and every now and then something big would come up and I just write to the author and say, hey, I just read your article about Snapchat. Google sent it directly to me. I didn't have to search it out or anything. I have some more information or I have a related story or I'm an expert. I want to give you another take on it. And I got people writing back. Sure. I mean, they needed content too. They needed to keep creating stories on these same topics for their publications. So they were happy to talk to people that could help them do their jobs. So then would you.

Would you. I interrupted there, but would you then send them some of the content that you had created about that for them to look at and then ideally share, or would you try to get into a conversation with them?

I would try to get directly into a conversation with them. I keep everything conversational. Press releases are death. I get, what, 50 radio pub press releases a day and they just automatically go to my junk mail or I just delete them. If you, if you want to stand out, then don't write the press release. Go on Twitter and say, hey, verbatim. What I do is I say something like, hey, I just read your article about podcasting. I have some great information I want to share. Can you give me a good email? And nine times out of 10, they'll at least give you their email address. You send them a little paragraph explaining, say, when's a good time to talk. I always say something like, but you're the expert. What do you think? Would this be good for your magazine? And they think about it. Sometimes they say no. Sometimes they don't say anything. Sometimes they say, let me talk to my editor. Sometimes they say, yeah, this is right in line with what we're working on right now. Can I call you? And then, of course, when somebody in the media says, can I call you or are you free? The answer is always yes. I don't care what you're doing, it's always yes. And that's a great way to get some free publicity as well.

Yeah, I love that strategy. And there's actually a tool that I've used in the past to do this exact same thing called Just Reach out IO.

Yeah.

And it allows you to search everything from blogs to different articles and even social on people who are mentioning certain keywords, much like that. And then it's got all these pre written, highly customizable templates to where you can just click, click, click, click the people you want to talk to and then send out an email. And it's a personal email to them. It's not like a, you know, a mass one or. It is mass. It looks like that. And they've actually reach, you know, written quite a bit for you so that you don't have to think of it yourself if this is not your forte. But they're not a sponsor of the show yet. But just Reach Out IO is a great service that I personally used yet if you guys are.

I like that. Yeah. Power. Positive thinking, Brad. That's exactly right.

Yes, exactly.

What about.

Some of the bullet points that you write? Okay, as I mentioned, I'm a big copywriter and I loved the bullet points and the teasers that you put on your sales page. I actually think everybody should go check it out just to read these. And I wrote down a handful of them that I really liked and I was going to kind of bring them up to you. So first of all, did you just reveal the only way to get on the most whatever list? Was that one of the. Is that one of the strategies is reaching out to people or is there something else that.

Well, there's a couple ways. One of them is reaching out to people if they're writing a list. But you know, one of the other things that people underestimate is the value of email marketing. And if you have an email list and you want to get on the most whatever list, or if you want your view count to go up, or if you want some kind of, you know, instant viewership, the best thing to do is to treat that email list like a little army of targeted whatevers that can go. And, you know, Ben Settle. Ben Settle always says do your bidding. Which is kind of true.

I love Ben Settle.

Yeah. Yeah. And you know, and a lot of the. I mean, he told me, yeah, I guess if you read his book, there was that one line about bullet points and he said it only takes one. That's why you need 148, because everyone's bullet point is different. So if they read down long enough, eventually they'll hit a bullet point. And it's true. If you go to any website and you start reading bullet points, not every bullet point pertains to you, but if one does, then you'll buy just for that one bullet point. And pretty much Everybody buys for one bullet point. I only have about 30. I think I should probably have more. But, you know, if you go to some of these big copywriters, they've got 100 bullet points, they've got 52 bullet points, and one of them is going to make you buy. But, you know, back to your question. That is, that is one of my strategies is to say, look, if you, you know, if you want a bestseller on Amazon, you've got to get your email list to go buy the book all at the same time, all on the same day. Offer some kind of incentive. If you want to get the most listened to podcast, put in four or five of them and then blast your list over and over again and say, today's the day. I need you to go.