A Brush With Jesus In His NDE- with Dr. Laurence Brock

You know you need something, you're just not sure what. You've been listening, you're doing the work, but there's still this feeling that you're circling the same place, like you're waiting for the thing that finally moves you. Now maybe you've thought about working with me one-on-one. Maybe something's held you back, the timing, the money, or you're just not sure you're ready yet. I get that. And I want you to know there's still a place for you. I built a resource for exactly this moment, guided meditations for when the waves hit and you just need to breathe. Workbooks to help you get out of your head and onto the page, ebooks on what near-death experiences tell us about the people we've lost, and whether they're really gone, a full course for widows and widowers who are ready to find their way back to living, and a full course for the evidence of the afterlife. And all of it is available for pay what you want. Nobody gets turned away because of money. I think these resources are valuable, but I don't want to hold them back because you don't have the money to pay for them. You don't have to wait until you're ready for coaching. The next step might be a lot smaller than you think. To find out, go to grief2growth.com/store. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/store. And check out the resources I've made for you. Hey, everybody, this is Brian D Smith back with another episode of Grief to Growth. And today I've got with me Dr. Lawrence Brock. Dr. Brock has a Doctor of Spiritual Science. He holds a postgraduate degree in advanced ministerial counseling. He's also an ordained minister. A certified Polarity Therapist, and a fully accredited Advanced Biofeedback Practitioner. He had a near-death experience following a horrific car accident in 1976. And in his experience, he went to heaven, he saw Jesus, and he tapped into an all-knowing and loving God. He came to 3 days later spiritually awoke with abilities to heal, a strong belief that everything is alright and good, and a new mission in life. So over, for over 35 years, he's had successful practice as a counselor, as an energy healer, and as a spiritual intuit. He says of his journey, learning to heal has been a journey of self-discovery and spiritual awareness. He's had the great opportunity to study with some world-renowned mystical teachers from many traditions who have assisted in further awakening a special healing ability within him. So with that, I want to welcome to Grief to Growth, Dr. Brian D Smith.

Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's nice to be here.

Yeah, I'm glad to have you here. Before we get started here about your experience, I'd like to know more about some of your background. What's a, a doctorate in spiritual science?

It is kind of what it sounds like. It's, uh, basically applying the scientific method to spiritual things. Part of the program was— so I have a master's and a doctorate For 6 years, I had to track pretty much everything I was doing. Like, you know, we had these sheets, and when you wake up, you'd make a note of what time you woke up, uh, and then, you know, how many hours you slept. You'd kind of rate your sleep and how much exercise, how much meditation, how much water. By the end, there were like 50 things on the list to keep track of, and then you In a scientific way, you go, well, you try to look at the patterns there, and, you know, it's like, if this, then this, and then you write a treatise on that. So I was looking at spiritual experiences. There were some emotions to track. There was one called hidden talents. Um, there was a time we had to keep track of what we were looking at in a way to honor yourself in what you were actually doing physically, but also to tune in things spiritually. So it'd be one month was for One is to focus on what you see and what you look at. One, what you hear and what you listen to. One is what your feelings are and how you're directing your feelings. And then at the end, you— I wrote a paper that took me many years to write because I finished my schooling and I graduated about 10 years later, partially because my daughter was born right around then and I started focusing on her a lot. Part of the instructions were to write something you were passionate about, and I started a few subjects and things I'm passionate about. But then when my passion would wane a little bit, I thought, oh, this isn't the right thing. At some point I realized I was going to have to work through that time when I wasn't totally feeling it 100% if I wanted to graduate. So I did that.

Okay, well, thank you. Thank you for sharing that.

So we studied meditation, we studied all, you know, all sorts of spiritual things.

Okay. So, um, and this was of course after your, your experience, your near-death experience, which was in 1976, correct?

Yes. So my, my bio makes it sound all simple and easy. Yeah, it was a process. So first of all, it was in 1976, so no internet. I'd never heard of a near-death experience. I, you know, I read some spiritual books when I was a little younger than that, like in high school. Autobiography of a Yogi. I read, uh, Hermann Hesse books, but I didn't really think of those as real people doing that. And, um, I had my experience and it— I knew that it happened, but I had no idea what to think about it. And it took a while of learning, and I've kind of learned that that not knowing has been a very important part of my spiritual growth because One thing is, in spirit, there are a lot of things we can't really know in our mind. The other part of it is, it's just really being open to learning when you don't know something.

Interesting, interesting. So if you would, tell me about your experience.

Okay, so I was, uh, at the time— so I'm— I live in the northeast of the United States, and this is in New Jersey, but I grew up in a little a little bit north of New York City. Um, at the time though, I was living out in Colorado, working in a restaurant, you know, drinking a lot, you know, partying, sleeping late, working late. And, um, my roommate in Colorado was also a friend of mine from high school, and we drove back east to visit our parents. Our parents were— and we drove straight through, so it's 1,800 miles.. And, uh, we got there early in the morning. We each went to our houses, and I even was wondering just the other day, how did we find out there was a party? Like, now with texting and everything online, you're connected to everyone. Back then it was very different, but we found out about a party, we went to it. We had drove back in his car, a 280Z, very fast, kind of fun car to drive. So we were met at the party. I drove my mom's little Bobcat, and, uh, you know, there was drinking, smoking pot, other fun drugs to do that I definitely don't do anymore in my life. But, um, so during the party, I kind of like the girl who was having the party, and I came up with a plan. I'm gonna pretend I'm drunker than I thought I was and tell her I need to leave my party, my car there so I could go back the next day and talk to her, pick up my car. So I had my friend drive me to my parents' house. When we were almost back there, I realized my sister needed the car the next day, and I said to my friend, you got to take me back. And he of course protested. I explained I was, you know, I explained my plan to him and he understood. So I went back to the party. I went in to tell the young lady that I was taking my car. And I do remember doing that. I'd have to yell because the music was so loud. I remember walking toward the door, like crowded, like you'd have to, you know, go through the crowd. There's music, everyone's dancing. And, um, I have glimpses of walking. I don't remember actually walking out the door. I have a glimpse of walking on the pathway out to my car. And then I don't remember anything until I was out of my body in the white light, all white all around me. And the car was down there smashed. My body was leaning against the tree. My legs were straight out. My body was against a tree, and there was a police officer crouching over me, um, behind me. And The, the spiritual mystical part is, even when I think of it now, I get kind of shaky inside in a nice way. And, um, so there was— it was all white light. There was a different shade of white light, a big circle behind me, and within that circle there was like a full silhouette, a full body, uh, you know, outline of a person that was just all white, just you know, if it was like a drawing, and there was diff— all different shades of white radiating off of that with a little, little bit of gold in there. I don't know how long it was. It didn't seem like it was just one instant, but it didn't seem like some people say they were, you know, there for years. It didn't seem like that either. And then, but the feeling part of it was what really impressed me. And it was just this feeling of love, feeling of warmth. And any of these, even using words, doesn't explain it because it's like there's a thought there. And this was more just knowing in a way that there was no need to know. Like it was just this, yes, this is the way things are. Then the being behind me said, you have to go back, your father wants you to stay.. And, you know, sometimes people say, did you have a choice to stay there? I didn't even think of that. Like, everything just seemed so right that I just went back into my body and came to 3 days later in the hospital.

Stay with us.

We'll be right back.

You know, one of the hardest things about grief, most of the people in your life just don't get it. They want you to be further along than you are. They get uncomfortable when you bring it up, so you stop bringing it up. And that's why I started writing. My Substack is where I go deeper. Thoughts I don't always get to on the podcast. Essays on consciousness, on continuing bonds, on what it actually means to carry a loss and still build a life. The stuff that used to keep me up at night, written out in a way that I hope meets you in the morning. But here's what I didn't expect when I started it. The community that showed up. People who are doing exactly what you're doing. Listening, learning, trying to find their footing. Readers who comment, who share their own stories, who remind each other that none of us are as alone in this as we feel. And that's what the Substack has become— a place to go deeper with me and to find your people. It's free to subscribe. Find me at grief2growth.com/substack. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/substack. Or just go to Substack and search for Grief to Growth. I hope to see you there. So you said this figure behind you, did you see the figure?

Uh, I did, but I, I was facing this way, so I don't— you know, at some point someone said you could see behind you. I don't— it wasn't like I could see behind me, it's just like all of this I knew, so I knew that was behind me. It wasn't like I turned my head or had eyes on the back of my head. It was just like something that I knew.

Okay. And, and at the point where the figure is speaking with you, you're looking at your body, is that correct?

Yes.

Okay. And what were your thoughts about your body at that time?

Again, everything seemed fine. Like, even though I saw it, it didn't— it wasn't like upsetting at all. It was It was just like everything made sense. Everything in the world, my life, everything, everything. But even saying that is not quite it, because it's like you're saying, how were you with seeing your body? It wasn't even a doubt. It wasn't like I thought, oh, my head's cracked open, but it's okay. It's just everything was okay.

Okay. And, um, so you were there, and then you were— you said you, you were sent back to your body, but you didn't recover for like 3 days, is that correct?

Yes.

Every day.

Yeah, I kind of have a couple of memories of almost coming to, but it's just like seeing nurses or whatever moving around. It wasn't very conscious. My verbal and mental understanding didn't happen until after I started meeting. So something that happened was I did start meeting a lot of spiritual people. A lot of them, most of them have had near-death experiences, and at the time I didn't even know that. I, again, that term the whole— like, now it's a thing, you know what I mean? Like, people know about it. It wasn't like I knew about this experience at all.

Yeah, I think Raymond Moody's book, uh, Life After Life, came out like 1978, and so it was really after that that the term near-death experience became part of the culture, right?

It was around that time. But even then, I mean, I didn't even— so what happened, one of the really cool things that happened, and I didn't realize how cool this was until a couple years ago. So I was in— I, when I was healthy enough, I went back to Colorado for a little while. Then my mom kind of convinced me and bribed me to come back to the Northeast, and I wasn't really sure what to do with my life. I was working in a restaurant. It was fun, but it wasn't very fulfilling. And, um, she bought me a new car with the, you know, bribing me to move back to the Northeast and go into business with my dad. One day after work, I was sitting in my apartment and someone knocks on the door, and I open it and there was this beautiful woman there. And she told me she was the sister of a friend of mine from Colorado, one of the people that I mentioned my experience to, again, not using the term near-death experience, but So this woman said to me, my sister told me some really cool things about you. Actually, she didn't say— I, I use the word cool. She said some interesting things about you. And then she told me she knew someone who teaches about what happens after we die, and that she wanted to introduce me to him. So I was, you know, before that I had my near-death experience, but it was like, so who cares? I have to go to work, you know, make some money and stuff like that. And she gave me one of his books and talked to me about him. And, um, he ended up being a Sufi Sheikh, who— what's a Islamic— you know, the Sufis are the mystical sect of the Islamic religion. And then I spent like the next 10 years of my life studying with him. But when he started to talk to me, that's when it started to kind of make sense. So he first— he actually Actually, the first thing was I talked to him on the phone and he— it was kind of like small talk. It was pretty funny because I thought he was going to ask me questions and stuff like this, but he didn't. He sent me a remedy the next day. He overnighted it and I took this remedy. I had read his book and there was a little stuff about remedies in there and about all these amazing experiences people have after taking them. I took the first dose, nothing happened. I was a, you know, and but the second dose, I took it within, you know, within very quickly. I had a really high fever after that. And he, he had talked in his book about how it was burning off the dross, like the unnecessarily things in there. And so that was my first experience with him, and I was A little afraid because my fever was dangerously high, but I was kind of also excited because to me it was like something out of a science fiction book, and I loved it.

Yeah.

Um, when I finally got to meet him in person, he started to talk to me first about Mary, and as soon as he said Mary's name, it was like, whoa, that— and he would say how amazing Mary was, that she was open to receive the Christ energy.. And when she said that, I go, oh, that's what I felt in my near-death experience. Then he started to talk about Jesus, and that's when I knew Jesus was the being behind me in my near-death experience. So I had no idea what to think of it.

So when you, when you came to and you remember, yeah, this memory, did it feel real to you? Did it seem like it might be a dream? What were your thoughts about what had happened to you?

I, I did not think it was a dream at all. I knew it had happened. And but then there's a part of what do you do with that, you know what I mean? Like, what do you do with people in the world who, um, as I mentioned, I mean, near, uh, Autobiography of a Yogi is a real book about a real person. But to me, you know, the books and the fictional things were my reference for that. So sure, it's been a process. And it— again, that part is very important because I'm still in that process of I have no idea, and I'm still in that process of growing and learning and discovering what these things are. Even maybe about 6 months ago, I all of a sudden got it, this flash of the image in my near-death experience, and I got a whole lot of more information mostly about meditating. And I even said to myself, oh man, I knew this all these years, but I didn't quite get it. So it's that process of unfolding is just very important for me. Yes.

Well, I've heard that people that have near-death experiences, it can take years or decades to integrate them and to recall everything that you knew when you were there. So it sounds like it is an unfolding process.

Yes.

And so when you came back, did you have any, any abilities? Were there any physical changes with you? Was it— did you have a miraculous recovery?

Um, I felt like I recovered pretty quickly. Um, I didn't associate that with my experience though. Uh, there, my intuition definitely increased. The— my hands, and still do pretty much when I touch someone, become warm very quickly. So that is some physical thing that I noticed. Uh, but the thing of meeting people is perhaps— I mean, it's all again, but I didn't think like right away, oh, healing, my hands get warm, you know. It's like I never, you know, I would think about what I do now, then I would think, oh man, he's crazy.

So, so were you on— what was your career path at that time? I imagine you were— were you in college or just out of college?

I was I was out of college. I had been a chef for a little while, and then I went to be in my dad's electrical contracting company.

Okay.

And, you know, it's something I'd done a lot when I was young, like in the summer and stuff like that. So it was kind of easy. It was lucrative, and there was a lot of it was office work, doing estimates, purchasing. And these were for like big jobs, you know, supermarkets. Um, Yes, it— there was a, a bit of a conflict, and luckily the part, my spiritual part in me, has just been so persistent that I couldn't ignore it, even though it'd kind of be easier to ignore it.

Sure. So, so how long did it take you to move into more of the healing space?

That's, um, well, it took me A few years I started— well, you know, I sometimes say my near-death experience was a whack in the head to get me on track. So a few years later, I had another much smaller car accident where I didn't even really get hurt. A woman ran through a red light and I just swerved out of the way. And I woke up the next morning, my shoulder and lower back were just tight as could be. It wasn't like from something being banged. It was just from stress. So I had been working a lot. I hadn't taken a vacation in longer than I should. And I went to Vermont and visited someone who, you know, another Sufi person, and he introduced me to polarity therapy. So I had this great session. So polarity therapy is a very gentle, similar to acupressure, but much more gentle where you're just basically holding certain points, usually 2 points on the body. And I just had this profound experience because my body was kind of beat up from my near-death experience. And it, you know, I was in my early 20s, but still I felt old after this. I had flashbacks from my childhood, all this stuff. And actually got off the table, I was going to complain that it was so short because she said it'd be an hour. And I looked at the clock before I said something, it was 3 hours.

Oh wow.

So then she said to me, I know someone near where you live who does this. It'd be good if you had some follow-up sessions. So I did, and after a few sessions she said she's teaching a class. And so I started taking this class in Polarity, and it was a way I could actually use what had happened with my hands to heal people.

Okay.

That was the first thing, and I did it for a hobby for a while. And one day I realized, you know, I'm sick of arguing with men about money in the construction business, so I want to start my practice.

Okay, so you do polarity therapy, and I think you have some other modalities you work in as well, right?

Yes, I don't do polarity therapy too much anymore because I mostly— I don't work with people in person. There are a few of the— I think they're called manipulations because it was actually invented by a chiropractor, um, but They're not manipulating like a chiropractor does. If I do work on people in person, there's some of the things I've integrated into what I do. Mostly now I work via video or sometimes on phone. So yes, it was this process of studying. So right away, the Sufi Sheikh said to me, "You're sensitive," which I knew wasn't an insult, which might sound to a man as an insult, because he said that his teacher in his book he wrote called him a sensitive. And so it was being sensitive to energy, to spiritual things. So I did the polarity therapy for a while, kind of as a hobby, then doing, you know, gradually doing it more. I started to learn other healing modalities. I studied deep connective tissue massage. I studied electronic devices. That's sort of advanced biofeedback is from that. But now what I do is I talk to people like this on video and learned how to bring in the spiritual light, the energy and love and healing from my near-death experience and more, actually. So there's other energies that are similar and just help people with pretty much anything. It's great. It's— it is the coolest thing in the world. I'm still amazed at what I can do. It's really great.

So do you feel like— did something after your experience— were there, were there incidences that led you— I know you said you met people— were there other things that led you to where you are today? Yes.

Um, yes. So one big thing that happened was my next-door neighbor. So, and his grandfather was very sick, and I was talking to his father, and he was telling me, and I said I would pray for him. And I did pray for him and I felt something happen. Again, feeling that energy of my near-death experience coming in, but I knew something happened. And then I saw the father again a few days later. He said, I think something happened because the grandfather went from, you know, he was about to pass away like any second to living for months longer. And that was pretty cool. A lot of little things like that happen. I did study, spend as much time as I could with the Sufi Sheikh. I also did a lot of reading. And so he was a Mevlevi Sheikh, and they follow the teachings of Jalal ad-Din Rumi. So Rumi, the poet who people read poems, have written these volumes of books, you know, they're very spiritual. And so I studied that. I just studied a lot. I mean, I The— again, the not knowing has really served me because I really wanted to learn. I had some direct experiences with the Sufi Sheikh that were just magical. Uh, one, he was teaching this sacred geometry class in St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York City, and I told him I want to go, and he said, well, you don't really— all the other students have been studying for a while, you won't understand it. And I said, I still want to go. And he said, well, you can come there and be like my assistant. And so, but basically that was, you know, carrying his briefcase, organizing the papers, sweeping the floor, stuff like that. And, um, during one of the breaks, he— I was sweeping the floor, he said, come on here into my office. And when I think of that, I— there's, you know, I have a fondness because he was always joking around. He did not have an office. You know, people say that a lot, but that was He would joke around a lot. And he said, "Here, give me your hands." And he squeezed my hands in his and he goes, "There, you got it." And I said, "What? What are you talking about?" And then he said, "No, give me your hands again." And he squeezed them and he said, "There, you got it." And so I was trying to ask him, what did I get? What did it mean? And like most of the time, he just didn't answer me or he would say, "You don't need to know that." But I noticed after that, my hands even got more warm. I would feel the energy more in my body than I did. So that was a very cool experience too. But there's a bunch of them like that. I mean, just some mystical, magical things that I've been blessed to be able to experience.

So when you were, when you were in your experience and you said you experienced Jesus, you realized, I guess, later it was Jesus. Yes. What were your— what was your religious background before that? What were your thoughts about Jesus?

Yeah, no, nothing. I was born in a Jewish family, so Jesus was not even something to think about to me. But during my— when, as soon as he said that, I knew. So it's not like religious at all. It's not like that's against being Jewish. I mean, he was an Islamic teacher too. So, you know, when I think about it, it's kind of interesting and funny in a certain way, but there's just no doubt. It wasn't like, oh, this is not Jewish, or this is Jewish, or this is Christian, or anything like that.

Well, you know, Jesus wasn't a Christian.

Jesus was Jewish.

Yeah. And I know another— I know a guy that had a near-death experience at the age of 3 and saw Jesus. So it's not uncommon for people who are not Christians to see Jesus. So what are your thoughts now, in all these decades later, about the person of Jesus?

Well, I know Jesus is a real being in spirit, but so is Moses and Abraham and Muhammad. And so, um, so yes, I had— my near-death experience was really a big shift, but I've dedicated my life to this, so studying with different teachers and developing the skills so I can see things spiritually for people. And there's no division in the spirit. It's not like Jesus and Moses are up there fighting with each other. They're there like they're on the same team working together, basically. So, um, but I do— I go to a Unity Church that is definitely, you know, they talk about Christ a lot. So in that way, I would say I'm more Christian than Jewish because that's what I Sometimes when people ask me about my religion, I'll say, well, I'm no religion. But sometimes I'll say, well, I'm all religions because I don't really believe in that stuff. I don't really believe, but I know a lot of really spiritual people that are very religious. So I'm not saying— I think the core essence of those religions we're talking about are all the same and they're loving and be good to people, do good. You know, all that.

Yeah, I think that the core, core of all religions are basically the same too. And I think it's really interesting that, you know, Christianity has tried to lay claim on Jesus. But I know people who've been atheists that have seen Jesus, people, Muslims see Jesus, people who are Jewish who have seen Jesus. So there seems to be something special about, you know, this being Jesus that shows up in, in people's experiences.

Yes, well, he's a very all-encompassing light in the spirit. So, but it's, it's not the thing for everybody. So it's not, um, so I taught this class, it was a couple of years ago, at a place in Red Bank, which is near where I live. I was talking to people about this, and I, you know, I kind of say in the spirit, Jesus is like the go-to guy, but I also say it's not for everybody. And I was talking to this woman, and she was a white American woman, you know, not— so, and I said, what's— you know, what do you— I said, do you relate to this? She said no. I said, what do you relate to? She said Buddha. And I go, wow. And usually sometimes people say that and then it doesn't really ring true in them, but with her it did. And I go, wow, that's interesting. So, you know, she must have some karma that she was a Buddhist. And but I explained this to her. I said, in Buddhism, a lot they're really focusing on quieting the mind, but then there's the of letting in the spirit. And when I said to her that Buddha, Buddha, Buddha's energy is very similar to Jesus, she like got it. And you see her eyes lit up and she let the spirit in, and it was so cool. So, you know, whatever— it's kind of like all roads lead to Rome. So, but whatever that path is for you, whatever you feel an affinity towards, an attraction to within these religions, that's why there are different kind of pathways that all lead to the same place.

Yeah, thank you, thank you for sharing that, because, um, I do— I know a lot of times I was just looking at my YouTube channel earlier today, a comment, and it was a— I interviewed a near-death experiencer, and this person's like, well, what about Jesus? He didn't, he didn't mention Jesus, so therefore it can't be a real experience.

Yeah, well, a lot of it has to do with— everything has to do with our karma, which is connected to other lifetimes, and the path that our soul has chosen to live in this lifetime. So yeah, does it really matter? No, it's however you get there, you know.

So, um, give me— can you give me some examples of— because I know you've got these healing abilities— yeah, some people that you worked with that have, that have been healed?

Yes. Um, yeah, not too long ago I was working with someone And, um, well, a cool thing happened. He wrote me an email after a couple of sessions saying, yeah, he was very much in his head, so he was being very analytical about it, which is fine, you know. But he said my— he had very high blood pressure, and he said the last couple of days my blood pressure has been normal. He said, I think that has something to do with what you did, which So what I do is really aligning the person with the spirit and calling in the spiritual light, and just sometimes these miraculous things happen. Um, there's, uh, yeah, there's a— this family that I work with, the mother and the daughter, and the daughter had been very sick. I meant to find out what she was diagnosed with before this interview so I could say it, but Basically, she could barely get out of the house. She couldn't even drive in a car because her neck was so sensitive. Now she actually just started— she's still doing school from home, but she just started— she could barely even take a single class at home, and now she started. She has 5 classes this year. One is on Zoom. The others are more self-paced. She went to a concert last week. She goes to the— I mean, these normal things that she was not able to go to the supermarket, um, you know, go out for walks with her mom, get exercise, all these things. And she was basically bedridden before, so that was really nice. Um, I— yes, sometimes I think I should think of things before the interview, but, uh, I understand it's hard on the spot to come up with examples. I know, but I should know better. It's okay. So there was a sign happen. This was a while ago. This woman came to me and she had arthritis through her whole body. So she was hurting everywhere in her body. And as soon as she started to talk to me, I could see there was a Native American healing guide with her. And I let her talk and talk, but I knew what I needed to do right away. And after I said, excuse me, but there's this Native American healing guide with you. And she said, I know, someone told me about that. And I could see she was afraid. I said, but you don't understand, this guide is there to help you. And like that, her energy field opened up. I didn't see her. I assume her eyes lit up. It was on the phone. And she goes, whoa, the pain is gone. So sometimes it's like that. More times than not, though, there's more than just happening in one second. I mean, to really be honest about it.

So it sounds like— I mean, that sounds like your abilities go way beyond polarity therapy or anything physical. It's your connection with spirit. And you said seeing guides. Now, do you have any mediumistic abilities?

Sometimes, yes. Okay. And anything you would ask me, the answer is sometimes. So sometimes people ask me about past loved ones. They come to me for that. Sometimes I can connect with them. I can see what's going on. Oh, I mean, almost if someone asks, then I can. Yes, just the other day someone asked me about that. And so part of what happens when people pass away, there's a time— it's not really in between, but it is like the person's a little more present physically, and then as time goes by, they become more and more— less physical, let's say. So when someone wants to connect to their past loved one, it's a little more subtle than they would like. So, but I can guide people through that, and a lot of times people can feel it. There was a time a little while ago where this woman's husband came in and put his hand on her heart, and she was able to feel it. What I can do is kind of hold this energy around people When I'm talking to them, it's directing their mind and indirectly their unconscious to open up to this. And when I'm holding that energy there, it's a little easier for people to do that. People can train to do it themselves, and it takes work, and— but it's kind of like anything, some people are better at it than other people.

Yeah, what you just said there was really, um, interesting. I'd like for you maybe explain a little bit more about that, because I, I know a lot of people say I can't really feel my loved one who's passed away because I think they're trying to feel something physical. And I heard you say it becomes more subtle.

Yes. So the main clue that is usually for people is to think of their positive qualities and attributes and your love for them, and then try to feel that almost coming in and almost outside of you. And because usually that works for people. So there's, um, there's like, when I'm talking about this, there are these beings in spirit that come in. I, I don't know, the part of not knowing is really big for me. So sometimes I don't know exactly what it is beyond that. And, um, so my mind, then I want to check mentally. I'm wondering, what are these beings here for? And it's like, is it someone for you, or is it just some they're here to support this process for people to get it out in the world. Yeah.

So, so yeah, because I guess I know people sometimes struggle with, you know, hearing from, from, from their own loved ones.

Yeah.

I know, in my experience, because my daughter passed away, you know, 8 years ago. And I felt, I feel like it's, it's more subtle, I guess. Yeah.

More of a knowing kind of, uh, so for you to understand though, but it can be right here. In a certain way you're thinking it's up there, and it's like, let that come in a little more. So you could try to do it right now actually, just like imagine— it's imagining her almost like an angel coming in and connecting with you. So it is more subtle, but it's here and now also.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, really, that's really interesting. So, um, and I also understand you help people with transitioning. Is that true? Is that correct?

I have done that. There's been times in my practice when I do that a lot. Um, there— I haven't in a while, but I— someone recently— I don't know how long ago it was actually, but it's a couple years. But it was someone who was a friend of mine from childhood who grew up on the same street as me. I was good friends with her brother. Both her brothers, and her— one of her brothers was the best friends with my brother for years. And so she had been sick for quite a while, and I wasn't— I knew she was in the hospital and probably going to transition pretty soon, but I wasn't going to see her because I saw her a number of times over the years. But it just worked out where something happened where it was like the only choice to do. So my daughter, she was in I think in Brooklyn in the hospital, and my daughter wanted to go into Manhattan to see a Broadway show with some people. And I was okay with her going to the show, but I took her into the city, so I had a few hours before the show was over. So, and I looked up the subway to go right to where this woman was in the hospital. It was right there. So I got on the subway and went there. Um, And I'm really glad that I did. So I knew her family from the time I'm a little kid. I got there and it was good to see her. So we had a lot of friends in common and there was posting online. Everyone was talking about how terrible she was doing. And I, you know, something I did after I was there— I mean, even before I went there, I posted, I said, no, she's doing good, she's getting ready to transition. And these are also a lot of spiritual people. So it's— there's something in us that doesn't want people to die. And I understand that. I mean, my mom died a long time ago. There's still times I really miss her, even though I know she's doing phenomenally well in the spirit. There's still times I miss her. So I, I was there, um, and this woman, she asked me to work on her. And so I did some hands-on stuff and helped balance their body. It got her to be very peaceful. But what was going on there was her family was there, and even our friends were so anxious about her passing away, they were like almost stopping her from passing. And that was not a good thing for her. So I worked on her, and sign that happened was she— her mom kept saying, oh, you should leave, because we only have a certain amount of visiting passes. So the family could come. And at some point, this woman who was like in bed I'm, you know, talking very softly in this loud voice that I— she said, stay, like she grabbed my hand. And then her mother was like, okay. And then so I worked on her a bit longer, and then when I knew she was lined up and ready to go, I left. And then she passed away a little while later. It was very— a beautiful experience. And but maintaining that peace for me and for her when everyone around— and it was in the city, you know, it was honking and honking and, you know, all that stuff. So I'm smiling, but it's— there was something very beautiful about it, really. Well, you—

we don't want to let people go. Um, that's, that's, I think, a natural part of being human. I think there's a lot, a lot to that. We, we miss them in the physical. There's also a little bit of fear, right? Because are, are they going to be okay? Are they okay? So what do you say to people that still have that fear about where their loved ones are and where they're going?

Um, well, I try to explain to them, but I totally understand because when I'm in a certain space, I can connect to that. I don't do that 24/7, so there are times that I get into that place of just the physical level. So one thing I do, like, I've had a number of experiences where I encouraged someone who was my client, and they had a relative who was about to pass, to go tell the relative that it's okay to die. And I have a handful of times where they passed away within an hour, kind of thing, because they're— um, so what do I tell them? I do— so when I work with people, I kind of hold this energy around them, and when they feel it they get it. So there's not so much words about it. And no matter, you know, you could say they're in a better place. And sometimes I say that almost in a joking around way because so many people say it who don't connect. They don't really know that, but they say it anyway. And then I say, but it's true. And when I say it's true with my heart, people get it. Um, there was, yeah, this woman She was actually in England, and her son, I don't remember how old he was, but he was in his late teens, early 20s, died in a tractor accident. And so one of my clients suggested she talk to me, and it was kind of interesting to see because the son, who did not live a very spiritual life, like he didn't even go to church, you know, he just didn't. Do anything, but he was in a very high place for someone who just passed away. And when I looked, it's like he had a past life as an Indian Sikh. So he came into this life with all those very high spiritual things. Like, he lived a very nice life, but more like a simple farmer kind of person, you know. It was interesting. Um, so I told this to the mother, and it seemed to help her for a while. But then my— the other person who was my client said after a while she went back to being very worried about it. So she wasn't able to— you know, it's hard. It's hard to believe those things when you don't really feel it so directly.

Well, you made a good point earlier about, um, people say they're in a better place. It's so cliché. They say it with— yeah, as you said, without really knowing. So we hear it so often in such an offhand way, it can actually make us start to believe, well, maybe it's not really true, you know. And the lessons I hear from NDEs are people are like, well, that sounds— it sounds too good to be true. It sounds too fantastic.

It is too good to be true. It is, you know, it's— so yes, when I connect into that energy, like everything is good.. But I don't— when I'm doing this interview or when I'm working, I'm very connected into it. But that doesn't mean I don't sometimes wake up not feeling that way. And so I do meditation and journal writing. I do tai chi and ex— you know, other things to, to strengthen that in me, because the human part of me is strong and it's meant to be strong.

And that's, that's a really excellent point. I was telling you before we started recording, I just got back from IONS over the weekend. Yeah, you know, being there for Thursday, Friday, Saturday, energy, right? The energy is just off the charts. And people are standing up on stage and telling us we're all spiritual beings, and we're all more powerful than we could possibly imagine. And everything is okay. And then one person got up to ask the question. She said, I come to this conference, and I'm feeling it right now. But I'm going to go home next week, and I'm going to forget it all. And that's just part of being human. That's, that's the natural human condition.

So when you make it a priority— so, but I do, I mean, I make sure I do that every day because there's just days. Plus, I mean, we're talking about the positive nice things in spirit. There are the negative powers that come in and don't want us to feel that. So it— they look— the negative things are looking for openings to make us doubt and worry about it.

So we'll talk about the negative things that are here to make us doubt.

Um, well, I usually don't go into it too much because people start thinking about things they've seen in movies, and it's usually in the same way the positive things are very subtle, the negative things are subtle. Well, today I was having this thing, and, you know, I was, um, I was doing some tai chi and I just felt a lot of worry there. And I go, oh, see, when I can separate from it and go, oh, there's the negative energy trying to pressure me to not feel in my heart and not feel in the spirit, then I can kind of put it aside. So what I do is I'll ask for the light to come in to try to get rid of that and dissolve it. I, like I said, Jesus is usually the go-to, so I usually start with the light of the Christ. And but any of the archangels, any of the saints, there are other things in spirit there. Uh, someone was talking to me about Guru Mai from Siddhi Yoga yesterday, so there's the whole Hindi, there's the Devas and all the Hindi, and, you know, there's a lot of their spiritual, positive spiritual beings from all religions that we ask to come in and help us.

Yeah, that's fascinating, considering just, again, it was at IONS last week, and I was teaching a workshop on something called positive intelligence. And we, we have the sage, and we have what we call the saboteurs. And it's a scientifically based program. And I've, you know, take it and I teach it. But I always tell people that are open to this, it's like, it's a very spiritual program as well. So from what you're saying, I can see the saboteurs as being some of these negative energies you talk about. They're very subtle. They're just like our own thoughts. They're not, they're not, you know, poltergeist.

They kind of amp up our negative thoughts.

Yeah, they kind of amp up our negative thoughts. And but we can come at that from that sage perspective, the higher perspective, and when we start to recognize it.

Yes, and you— it is like there's a certain surrender in there because there, there you can't go against those things because againstness is part of the negative stuff. So you have to be— it's almost surrendering, but surrendering more to the, like, the light of the Christ or to Abraham or Buddha, you know, whatever that is for you. And you invite those energies in and that they come in because they are inherently there to help us. So all we have to do is ask.

Yeah, that's awesome. That's— I'm— I think it was a really good point. I'm glad you brought that up because— and I know, you know, we hesitate to talk about the negative because the human mind will focus on that, right? We'll do all this talking about everything is good and everything is positive, and then some— all they'll take away, take away from it is, oh, there's these negative entities I need to be— I need to look out for.

Right. So yes, it's a little tricky. And even doing the clearing that I do, so I help with people that I always do that where I'll get rid of the negative stuff that's there. And I don't talk about it too much to people just because of what you're saying. If you're too focused on getting rid of the negative things, there's a certain againstness there. And that's not what we're doing. We're clearing the path for this very positive thing. And it's like I'm choosing into this. I'm choosing into God. I'm choosing into love. And then, you know, and let me just gently push the other things out of the way kind of thing.

So, um, I was looking at your website earlier and you have something called— I think it's the L breathing technique.

Yes.

I'm really curious about that.

It's a great thing. That's what I did for my doctoral treatise. Um, it's a basic breathing technique that, um, I kind of developed over years of working. And then when I was take, you know, doing, writing my paper, I had to make it a more concrete, defined technique and then do tests on it. But it's, it's basically the first part is learning to breathe into your abdomen, which it'd be good for everyone to do that. Okay. And then there's a little So that— the way that teaches you to breathe is something like for most little babies, they breathe that way where they're breathing into their abdomen, not really their abdomen, into the bottom of their lungs. And there's a gentle movement in the spine and in the neck. So it's— so your spine is kind of, when you're breathing in, it's kind of arching. So it helps get more oxygen in by the deeper breathing. It gets your spinal fluid moving. It is really a great, great thing to do. And by practicing for a few— usually it takes about 3 months to really kick in— it will change your breathing and the way that you breathe that way naturally. I added in a part where you breathe in and out through your nose and mouth, and some of that was more based on research, but I had also discovered through the years of doing the bodywork and the work I do when people breathe through their mouth, they're more letting go of things and they're letting go of emotions. And then with this, the research, you just get a whole lot more oxygen into your body by doing that. So it's, it's kind of like you leave your mouth open a little bit and try to breathe in through your nose, and you'll see you breathe in through your nose and mouth at the same time.

Okay, and that's something that, uh, we can learn about from you or from your website?

Yeah, yeah. On my YouTube channel, there's an L-breathing video.

Okay.

Which there are links on my website to my YouTube channel. So when you go to the first page of my YouTube channel, if you scroll down, there's two playlists. One is all the meditations I've done. The other one is, it includes one meditation, but it includes other self-care techniques and the L-breathing is in there.

Okay. And so I assume that people go to your website, they can learn how to work with you. Um, you work with people one-on-one and you do it through, through Zoom?

Through Zoom mostly, yes. Some people don't like to be seen, that's— so we just talk on the phone, that's fine too.

Okay, so you can do it on the phone as well?

Yeah, yeah. And so yes, I started when my daughter was around 2 years old and she just turned 19. I started— I used to have an office in Manhattan and one in Connecticut, and her mom was going back to work, and I felt like I should be home more for her. And so that's when I started working on— it was almost always on the phone back then. It's mostly on video.

Interesting, because I, I— a lot of people, and I'm found that the people can do stuff, you know, energetically over the phone, over Zoom, over whatever. It does, it doesn't matter. But some people still feel like, you know, I have, you know, I'm not there. Yeah, physically.

Yeah, no, I, I think it makes it more magical. And I joke around, even said someone in Japan the other day, and so it was a different day, and in my sci-fi mind it's like time travel, you know.

Yeah, it's always fun. So tell people where they can, uh, where they can find you.

Okay, yeah, my website is lawrencebrock.com. My YouTube channel is Dr. Lawrence Brock. I have a TikTok, Doc L. Brock. I used to have Doc Brock at TikTok, but they got a mix-up with my age, and some— for some reason they think I'm a minor and they won't let me put certain things on there. So I had to open up a new TikTok. Uh, my— I can give you my phone number. You can text me or, uh, send a WhatsApp message. 732-567-6388. In, in the United States. So plus 1 in the beginning there.

Yeah. And, uh, for everybody, um, I'll put links in the show notes, but it's Lawrence, it's L-A-U-R-E-N-C-E.

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And Brock, B-R-O-C-K.

Yes.

Dr. Brock, any final message you'd like to leave with our listeners today?

I really encourage people to do journal writing and meditating. It's really important. And with— you don't have to do them perfectly. Definitely meditation. I've been meditating most days for 40 years, and there are days where it's just blah blah blah blah blah. I gotta answer my phone, I have to do this. But still taking that time for you and your relationship with Spirit, with Source, with God, whatever you call that, that's really important. So even if you like, don't judge yourself how bad you meditate. With practice it gets easier, but then sometimes, you know, our mind's just full of stuff, so it's taking the time. That already. I can't impress enough on people to do that.

But thank you. I think that's a very important message to give to people and to hear someone like yourself who's had the experience that you've had and who works with these energies every day on a daily basis, that you still have to stay grounded in that meditation.

Yes. If you think you've done— you're not. Just— yes, you can see I start. So in that same playlist, there's meditation. There's a journal writing to integrate the journal writing with the breathing. That's really cool. So like, you write out some things and then you breathe. You write out some things and then you breathe to help balance. It's really awesome.

Awesome. So definitely go check out, uh, the YouTube channel, check out your website, and if you feel like you, you need some healing, reach out to Dr. Brian D Smith.

Sounds good. Thank you.

All right, well, thanks for being here today.

You're welcome. It's a pleasure. It's nice talking to you.

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