Adam Rabinovitch- Connecting Our Paths Eternally

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Hi there, welcome to Grief to Growth Podcast. Your host is Brian D Smith, spiritual seeker, bestselling author, grief survivor, and life coach. Brian believes that the worst tragedies of life provide the greatest opportunity for growth. Brian D Smith says he was planted, not buried, and he is here to help you grow where you've been planted by the difficulties in life. In each episode, Brian and his guests will share what has helped them to survive and thrive. It is his sincere hope this episode helps you today.

Hey everybody, this is Brian D Smith back with another episode of Grief to Growth. And today I've got with me Adam Rabinovich. And Adam is the executive director, executive director of an organization called COPE. Which is a nonprofit grief and healing organization dedicated to helping parents and families living with the loss of a child. And COPE is an acronym for Connecting Our Paths Eternally. Adam was previously the executive director, executive director of Giving Open Access to Learning, or GOAL, which is a nonprofit educational program that provides children from underserved communities with the resources to help them get the most out of their education. As you can tell, Adam's been doing this type of work for a while. Prior to that, he was a deputy director of NeighborsLink, a nonprofit committed to strengthening the healthy integration of immigrants in local communities. Adam is also proud to be a volunteer board member and to serve as board choir— board chair, I'm sorry— of Brick by Brick, an NGO and social enterprise dedicated to improving the lives of children and families in East Africa. So Adam is a busy man. And with that, I want to welcome Adam to Grief 2 Growth.

Thank you so much, Brian, for that warm introduction and for inviting me to join you today on behalf of all the families that we're supporting. And really, thank you for pronouncing Rabinovich correctly. When you and I met months ago, I said, I wish it was like Smith, but it ain't. So thank you for all of that. I'm really glad to be here today.

Yeah, it's really good to sit down and get to have this conversation with you virtually. You and I met a few months ago through a mutual friend. That's where I learned about COPE. I love the work that you guys are doing. I wanted to introduce COPE to, to more people and let them know what resources are available. Because as parents that have had children pass, we can always use, you know, whatever's out there. So how did you get involved in doing this type of work? You've been, you've been doing this type of outreach for quite a while.

Yeah, so I've been committed to social impact work through nonprofit leadership for the last decade of my career as a volunteer and as a staff leader. And I came to to join the COPE community just about 3 years ago. So this is being recorded in, in the early fall of 2021. I joined in August 2018. And flashing forward 30, 40 years before that, I was born healthy and have lived 48 years and counting. In 1973, and a couple of years after I was born, my baby sister Marniette came along, and she was born very ill, and she died before the age of 2. I have some vague— somehow vague and vivid memories of playing peekaboo with Marniette and playing the big brother role for her for the couple of years that she was with us. My brother and sister came along after Marniette died, and they never got to meet her. So my parents, my family have been living with the loss of a child, with my loss of my sister for 40-plus years. And we've been living with that loss and in many ways not talking about the loss, not talking about Marniette, certainly not as a family unit. So by being able to connect with COPE 3 years ago and you and so many people in the grief and healing space, including parents and siblings and families living with the loss of a child, this club that no one wants to belong to, it's really given me some personal and professional meaning and purpose in the work that I'm doing as part of this larger community in a way that I never had. And I'd like to say and think that it's given my family some new tools and common language as well, living with the loss of a child. So that's a little bit of what got me involved in the work and has kept me very engaged and passionate about supporting other families like mine, like yours. We know there's so many out there that need support, need each other, need connection, and COPE is one of the ways that people can connect and get that support.

I think that's, that's so important that you talk about that, how your sister passed when you were a young child, and how that's impacted you even 40-plus years later. A lot of times, especially as parents, we think about how the loss of a child impacts us, we don't think about how it impacts siblings, and the whole family, the whole family unit going forward. And it's been my experience, a lot of families don't talk about it. You know, I've talked to clients that like, they don't even mention the name of the child that's passed. And they don't realize that does have an impact on everybody.

Yeah, well said. And again, I don't want to overstate the, the, the newness of it, but it's really just in the last few years that I've been able and my family has been able to use some of those tools, techniques, and go out of our own comfort zone, I guess, in some cases, and talk a bit about Marnit, even though she was only with us for less than 2 years.

Yeah, children make, they make an impact no matter how long they're here, you know, how long or how short they're here. I was Just interviewing someone earlier today who had a daughter who didn't live at all outside, outside the womb, but made it, made an impact on their family. So, you know, your, your sister is still making ripples today, and I think that's so cool. I just, I just light up when I hear— I think about something like that.

That's really, really well said and sweet. Excuse me.

Yeah, someone that came in for what seems like a short time, but, you know, still, still living to this day through through you. So kudos to you.

Thanks for that. Yes.

So tell me about COPE. How did COPE get started?

COPE came together as, again, a group of members of this club that no one wants to belong to. Our founders met each other shortly after the losses of their then adult children. This is going back to the early, mid-1990s. They leaned on each other. They still lean on each other these years later as friends, as colleagues, and as board members members and committed supporters of COPE. They started a network, an informal network, bringing together other parents and some siblings in different families across Long Island, New York, all who had this common thread of they've been living with the loss of a child or children. Built enough of a network and saw enough of a need and an opportunity for a unique solution in our area geographically, and hopefully a model for other communities across the country and beyond. And in 1999, started a nonprofit corporation. Here we are 22 years later, sustaining, growing in many ways. The last year plus, I don't need to tell you or your audience that the need and demand for grief and healing and bereavement support has only increased with drivers like COVID-19, not being the only one. Certainly, we're seeing a lot of spikes around in the communities that we're supporting, downstate New York and beyond, around death by suicide. And homicide and gun violence, and also certainly trends, which hopefully are starting to turn around locally and nationally around addiction and opioid overdose. So as families and communities continue for the foreseeable future, meaning for the rest of time, need grief and healing support, COPE wants to be one of the tools that people can lean on and again, connect with each other and get the support that they deserve.

Yeah, absolutely. So, so how did you guys fare during, during the last year or so, 2020 with the pandemic? Yeah, 2021 with the things that we're going through now, we're still not really out of it. So how did that impact the work that COPE's doing?

Great question. And as I've gotten to know you, I'll share two, two words which I know are close to your heart in your work. I'd say bravery and technology. So first, as the pandemic was rearing its ugly head, we stepped back, but really just for a minute and asked ourselves as as an organization and the community that we support, the families, can we continue to provide support? Not really should we, but can we and how? So we pivoted or moved very quickly. This is March into April of 2020 to telehealth. So instead of podcasts, we've created safe spaces, secure spaces for parents, for siblings, for teens, for other bereaved and grieving individuals and families to come together, not quite replicating replicating the experience of being side by side, shoulder to shoulder at a table, in a room together, but we've come a long way. And we've also continued to ask for and receive tremendous support. As a nonprofit corporation, we rely extraordinarily on the generosity and contributions of donors and foundations and partners across the board, and everyone has really stepped up. So between leaning into technology and, learning with technology and not being shy about asking people to support the work that we do so we can keep being there for the families that count on us. We've managed to come out of whatever this most recent chapter of the pandemic is and have some learned lessons for plowing ahead for the future, as unknown as some of the unknowns may be.

Yeah. So what are some of the services that you offer to people?

Yeah, thank you for asking. The core of what we provide are peer-to-peer support groups for, in some cases, parents living with the loss of a child, in other groups, siblings living with the loss of a brother or sister. And we also offer groups for teens living with the loss of a loved family member. So each of those support groups, historically in person, currently through telemental health, the future probably some hybrid model of the two. Each of those groups has a licensed clinician, a social worker, in the room, whether it's again virtual or in person. And they're there not as a therapist but as a facilitator. So it's really the, the peer-to-peer model with the facilitation of a professional that we hear again and again from family members helps them as they move through their grief journey. That's one area and one way that we support bereaved families and individuals. We also offer— and this has been a real, uh, increase in, in, in the way we've connected with families during the pandemic, a series of healing workshops. And you've been part of some of those as a presenter and a sharer. So we continue to design and partner with people including you and so many professionals and grieving and bereaved family members across the country and across the world to provide healing workshops open to all and any, currently online. And that includes everything from Tai Chi, which will be having another Tai Chi movement workshop coming up. We've had yoga, mindfulness and meditation. We've offered drama therapy, music therapy, trying to provide as many tools as we can for as many people to meet them in their unique grief journeys and trying to do it at a scale. And technology again has helped play a role in that to meet more people with limited resources.

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's really fascinating. And sounds like a great breadth of services you're offering to people. But it brings up the question I have, because you and I met— I live in Ohio, you live in New York. And as you said, I've spoken at one of your workshops. And I know that you guys geographically are centered in New York. And that's been your traditional base. Have you found that you're growing outside of that due to this, the challenges you're going through?

Yes, in a few ways. And a lot of it's through network and coalition building. So one of the things that I've seen— and thanks again for sharing in my bio that I've been focused on the nonprofit sectors. Too often in different fields and missions, there can be silos and some fragmentation between groups, between community organizations doing great work in their communities, but not always having the capacity or the bandwidth to connect with people and organizations across the county or across the state lines or whatever it is. You and I are now connected many states away and maybe even a time zone or two. So one of the ways that we've been both both scaling our impact geographically, but also working with other like-minded organizations is we are in our 10th year of being part of a terrific national, now international organization, US and Canada, called the Eluna Network. And Eluna supports families and primarily kids in a variety of ways, including the Camp Erin Network. And this is free bereavement grief camps for kids aged 7 to 17 living with the loss of a loved one. So we just had our 10th Camp Erin New York City, which is for the New York City metro area. And we also hold a concurrent parent and caregiver retreat. So perhaps you and your audience can envision that in a balanced camp experience. So there's bereavement and grief support along with fun, water slide and capture the flag and all the things that kids and sometimes their adult parents and caregivers want to engage in, come together for a shared experience. Experience, and also again bringing together some common tools and common languages. So we hear from families who go through the Camp Erin experience that after that, their own family unit has, has some shared new techniques that they can use around their loss of their shared loved ones. In addition to that, I'll mention that we work closely with the National Alliance for Children's Grief, and increasingly part of New York State and US initiative under the Evermore banner, which is helping to fix bereavement care for all Americans. And that includes systems change, policy change, legislation, legislative change across the country, and hopefully additional resources for people like you and Grief 2 Growth organizations like COPE so that we can do more as we continue to see increased demand for all of our services. So those are a couple of the ways that we've been connecting, learning from, sharing with, with beyond the origins of Long Island and New York City metro area.

We'll get back to Grief to Growth in just a few seconds. Did you know that Brian D Smith is an author and a life coach? If you're grieving or know someone who is grieving, his book Grief to Growth is a best-selling, easy-to-read book that might help you or someone you know. People work with Brian D Smith as a life coach to break through barriers and live their best lives. You can find out more about Brian and what he offers at www.grieftogrowth.com, www.grief2growth.com. If you'd like to support this podcast, visit www.patreon.com/grief2growth, www.patreon.com/grief2growth. G-R-O-W-T-H to make a financial contribution. And now back to Grief 2 Growth.

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You know, one of the hardest things about grief, most of the people in your life just don't get it. They want you to be further along than you are. They get uncomfortable when you bring it up, so you stop bringing it up. And that's why I started writing. My Substack is where I go deeper, thoughts I don't always get to in the podcast, essays on consciousness, on continuing bonds, on what it actually means to carry loss and still build a life. The stuff that used to keep me up at night, written out in a way that I hope meets you in the morning. But here's what I didn't expect when I started it: the community that showed up. People who are doing exactly what you're doing— listening, learning, trying to find their footing. Readers who comment, who share their their own stories, who remind each other that none of us are as alone in this as we feel. And that's what the Substack has become— a place to go deeper with me and to find your people. It's free to subscribe. Find me at grief2growth.com/substack. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/substack. Or just go to Substack and search for Grief to Growth. I hope to see you there. Yeah, it's really interesting. You know, as we, you know, as we go through challenges, and sometimes they seem like they're setbacks, but you know, as what Grief to Growth is all about, right? It's sometimes they can be opportunities. So I know, like, you and I met during the pandemic. And, you know, I've spoken to your group because of the use of technology. It's funny, all my clients are remote. I don't have any clients in Cincinnati. I was talking with talking to someone the other day about, you know, some grief work, and they're like, so how many clients do you see face to face? And I don't see any. So it's, it's a great, it's a brave new world that we live in. So it's really exciting. And I can see COPE, because of your, your caring and your expertise, really starting to grow outside of that, the area that you guys are in locally.

Yeah, that's so well said. And I do value the face-to-face time with you and so many others, even if it is pixelated or virtual. In your case, of course, it's as clear as, as it could be. But yeah, no, well Yeah, yeah.

Well, there's nothing that will replace face-to-face. As I said, it's, it's, I look at it as an opportunity to really get to get beyond, you know, I was just talking with someone right before we got on, I was interviewing with a young woman in Germany. So I was like, I would have, I would have never met her if it had been, if it hadn't been for the technology. And it's so cool that we can just get on and do this. And I've spoken with your group, and I'm happy to be part of, you know, helping people as much as I can, you know, anywhere they happen to be.

We value that, and I give so much credit to the families, our staff, our volunteers, our partners, including you, who have either embraced the new technology, even if it's not comfortable in one way or another, and really stepped up. And it's helped to keep some of those connections and ties among families, and in our case, back to the COPE organization, intact and hopefully enhanced in some ways, even though we're not there to pat each other on the shoulder, give the hugs, and dry the tears together in person.

Yeah, well, I know you, you guys are doing great work there. So for people that are remote though that might be interested in getting connected with COPE, that might want to reach out to you for some sort of help, where would you suggest they start?

Yeah, great place to start is on our website copefoundation.org, and I know you'll make sure that the, uh, the listening audience has access to that. They can also follow us on our social media feeds, uh, which they'll get to right through, uh, the website. And we have not only direct links to get involved in our support programs and our healing workshops, which will continue to unroll and unfurl in the, in the coming months and years. But there's a whole bunch of resources that people can access any time of day. We'll be not competing with you, but hopefully adding some value in the podcast market in the near future. But we have suggested reading and blogs and articles and also a volunteer-led warm line, not quite a hotline. It's not a crisis line, but these are trained volunteers, bereaved parents and siblings, who are there to pick up the phone, lend an empathetic ear, and make that connection for anyone who wants to reach out, regardless of the time zone or the time of day.

Yeah, well, I think that peer-to-peer model is really important. After, after my daughter passed, I did go to grief counseling briefly. I went to see a guy, and actually, he was a grief counselor. He was at a hospice here local, Philly. And it was, it was somewhat helpful. I was pretty far along on my spiritual journey, if you want to call it that, anyway. So I only went to him a few times. But I find it's really helpful to talk to other parents, to talk to, and to find out what they're going through and not feel alone. So I really, I really value that, that peer-to-peer connection that you guys offer. So people can say, hey, this is what I'm feeling, this is what I'm feeling. Oh, I'm not crazy. You know, I'm not insane. Because we feel like when we lose a child, we feel like we're losing our minds. You know, we really literally feel like we can't go on and function anymore.

Yeah, that message of you, I, we are not alone is so powerful. And it just needs to continue to be said and demonstrated and shown that no one in this club is alone. And it is a club no one wants to belong to it, as I said, as you may not along to, but certainly I encourage anyone who's listening and looking for a lifeline, reach out, reach out to COPE, reach out to Brian D Smith, reach out to your local support mechanisms. And please, please stay connected. You're not alone.

Yeah, well, and the thing is, you know, again, I go back to your opening, you talking about your sister. And, you know, I just look at it, no life is lost. You know, people sometimes will look and will judge. And again, as parents, you know, my child only lived for X amount of time, you know, my daughter was 15, or someone, you know, and we put— we place judgments on it. But we don't know what effect that that's going to have. We don't really know what it's going to do in the future and how much purpose that person's life could possibly serve long beyond the time that they're, they're here in this physical plane. And I see this just as you just as a shining example of that.

And likewise, and I'm so glad that we're connected and we get to, to support other families together along the way.

Yeah. Well, Adam, what else should our audience know about supporting grieving parents, families? I know you've shared a lot, what COPE can offer. Just in general, what is— what's the philosophy of COPE? What is— what is your— what is your vision?

So our vision is that no one should grieve alone. And that means no one. So as you and I have been talking about today, there's lots of resources for people to connect to, maybe not enough. And hopefully, as As we move together to increase awareness of the need for bereavement care at the national and state levels, there'll only be more supports going forward, whether it's paid bereavement leave for families who need those extra days just to make sure that they can take care of themselves, take care of their families in those, those early days, whether it's after traumatic loss or any kind of loss. So there's opportunities also to get involved and let one's voice be heard. So share your experiences with local community members. You can share your experiences with elected officials and ask for support, not only for yourselves, but for the next grieving mom, the next grieving dad or brother or sister. So amplifying the message that everyone deserves support and no one should grieve alone is critical. And we're also helping and hoping— I'm hoping that the conversation around grief and bereavement and healing changes in our country and our society so that dynamics like I mentioned in my family, maybe there's less stigma going forward about death and loss and grief and healing. And I know there's great groups who focus on that, including the Reimagine community. If your audience isn't already aware of them, they can learn more at let's reimagine and really just trying to shift the conversation so that everyone feels supported and that those who care about their grieving and bereaved loved ones have the tools and the language and know what to say and what not to say.

Yeah, I think it's, yeah, it's really important. And I like that, you know, about shifting— you said shifting the conversation. I'd go beyond that and saying even having the conversation. Again, I talked to so many people that say, I don't, I don't want to share my grief because I don't want to feel like I'm making someone else sad. And people will even say to us sometimes, well, aren't you over that by now? You know, you should, you know, and so they'll kind of make us feel shut down, like we shouldn't talk about it. And I really love your philosophy of no one should grieve alone. And I think I completely agree with that. I think we are meant as human beings, we're social creatures, and we need to share our experiences, especially this experience of grief. And when we go through it alone, um, I'll never forget, I was driving one day and I was listening to podcasts. I was like, it was right after my daughter had passed away. And I was listening to grief podcasts. I think it was Sandra Champlain. She had a woman on. Her name was Donna Visaki, and her daughter had passed away. And Donna, she tells a story about she was standing on the curb, and there was a bus driving by, and she thought about stepping out in front of the bus. And it really caught my attention because I was like, this is a feeling that I've had several times. And I was so glad to hear someone else say that out loud, even though it's something we wouldn't necessarily share, because people think we're crazy or suicidal. But it's really important that people be in a space where they feel comfortable sharing those types of things. And then they know, you know, people, they know that they're not alone. So I love what you guys are doing.

Also, as you were talking, I was just remembering, if you happen to hear typing in the background, excuse me, I just want to make sure that if your audience is interested, they know where to go. There's a platform called speakinggrief.org. And I know you have access to so many resources. If you want my help in sharing any of the ones that we're talking about today, I'll of course, make sure that you have those to share out with the listening audience or the viewing audience. And Speaking Grief is not only a documentary about some of the themes that we're talking about today, but it also has some, some great tools, not only for grieving individuals and family members, but again, for those who care about them. And so I encourage folks to check out their resources as well.

Yeah, that was a great documentary. And as you said that, it reminded me I had a young lady on who was in that film as one of my, as one of my guests. So the thing is, there's a, there are a lot more resources available now. And as you said earlier, I'm a technology guy. So I just, I'm excited about the possibilities of these things that we can get out there now, the documentaries, and that we can, we can share with people literally around the world. And, you know, I've even seen a lot of it now in media, where I think they're becoming more aware of— I don't know how Cope feels about the afterlife, but I think the afterlife is to me one of the most important things. So I'm just seeing more openness to people willing to talk about how our, our children are not lost, that they, that they, they go on.

Well, I'll just mention a couple of things on two, uh, related, unrelated topics that you just highlighted. Um, one is, uh, as part of COPE's origin, uh, and people can learn more on our website about, uh, our history, uh, at copefoundation.org. Our founder, Lily Julian, had a vision, a dream, that her daughter, who she lost, Michelle, visited her and said effectively, essentially, "Hey, Mom, I'm okay. Take care of yourself and each other." And that was part of the catalyst that started COPE. And we continue to offer a series of programs, including under the banner of Signs and Synchronicities, where professionals and laypeople and family members get to come together and share some of their stories and the signs and synchronicities that keep them connected to our loved ones. And, uh, so I appreciate you bringing that to the forefront of our conversation today. And I also just wanted to, to highlight— and I know we'll be wrapping up shortly— so just to not only again thank you for the opportunity to share, but going back to our introduction, uh, in today's conversation, that one, one of the, um, uh, clear realities that I've learned doing this work now for the last few years and talking to my family for the first time in many ways was that there was nothing like them for COPE or for us like COPE or Grief to Growth or so many organizations 30, 40, maybe even 20 years ago. So to your point, the fact that we are seeing some of these shifts and technology being one of the pieces to helping unlock that is really critical. And again, none of us can do it alone. So it's wonderful that you and I and some of our our fellow and shared, shared collaborators are in this together to support each other and support families.

Awesome. Awesome. Well, I, um, we were running time, close to time to wrap. I do want to let everybody know that the website is copefoundation.org, and there'll be a link, of course, in the show notes. Uh, Adam and I were talking beforehand, there's a lot of events that COPE does that are coming up, so I'm sure there's a calendar of events there. So for whatever time you're listening this, you can find out what's going on currently. And if you're not in the New York area, COPE could still be a great resource for you. So I just want to put that out there for people that happen to be maybe somewhere else but do want to get connected.

Exactly. Thanks. We're here for anyone and everyone, so please reach out. Um, and again, you're not alone.

All right, Adam, it was great seeing you today. Um, and, uh, have a great rest of your day.

Thank you, Brian. Thanks for having us and all the good work you're doing.

Thanks for listening to Grief to Growth. Brian hopes that you find this episode helpful, and will come back for future episodes. Brian's bestselling book, Grief to Growth: Planted, Not Buried, is a great resource for anyone who is coping with grief or knows someone who is. If you enjoy the podcast and would like to support it, there are 3 things you can do to help. The first is to share the podcast with someone that you think it will help. The second is to go to iTunes, rate and review the episode. The third way you can support the podcast is by becoming a patron. Head over to www.patreon.com/grief2growth. That's P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com/grief, the number 2, growth, and sign up to make a small monthly donation. Patrons get access to exclusive bonus content and knowledge that you are helping to spread the message of grief to growth. For more about Brian and grief to growth, visit www.grief2growth.com.

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