Awakening to New Realities with Mycailin Callahan

You know you need something, you're just not sure what. You've been listening, you're doing the work, but there's still this feeling that you're circling the same place, like you're waiting for the thing that finally moves you. Now maybe you've thought about working with me one-on-one. Maybe something's held you back, the timing, the money, or you're just not sure you're ready yet. I get that. And I want you to know there's still a place for you. I built a resource for exactly this moment, guided meditations for when the waves hit and you just need to breathe. Workbooks to help you get out of your head and onto the page, ebooks on what near-death experiences tell us about the people we've lost, and whether they're really gone, a full course for widows and widowers who are ready to find their way back to living, and a full course for the evidence of the afterlife. And all of it is available for pay what you want. Nobody gets turned away because of money. I think these resources are valuable, but I don't want to hold them back because you don't have the money to pay for them. You don't have to wait until you're ready for coaching. The next step might be a lot smaller than you think. To find out, go to grief2growth.com/store. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/store. And check out the resources I've made for you. Everybody, this is Brian D Smith back with another episode of Grief 2 Growth. And today I've got with me Micheline Callahan, or Cal as her friends call her. She grew up as a mystic who commonly experienced ecstasies from the age of 5, under the guidance of her daemon Michael, and we'll talk about what a daemon or demon or daemon is. By the age of 15, she'd become an empiricist. She'd set Michael aside as her childhood imaginary friend. However, at the age of 20, she had an NDE, and she found Michael again in what she calls the lustrous void, where Michael gave her a life review that was so redemptive, she had to return to tell everyone. So this was in 1978, though, and the world wasn't ready for the message. So fast forward 45 years later, and she feels that the world is ready because Michael has brought her so much through and brought her so much and restored her vigor so that she at the age of 65, could complete the mission she rushed back for in 1978. So since then, after coming through a long illness, she's written several books, we're going to talk about some of her books. And she is going around telling people about her story and about her experiences. So with that, I'm really excited to finally have Michaelene Moore, or Michaelene Callahan, on Grief 2 Growth.

Great. Yeah, I'm excited to be here as well, Brian.

Yeah, we've been Facebook friends for a while. And I've seen a couple of your interviews. And I'm really, as I said, interested in sharing your story with everyone else. You talk about your guide Michael, who you said you've been connected with from a very early age. So tell me about that early connection through your NDE when you were in your— when you were 20.

Okay, that's really critical too, because now as I look back at 65, I can see the trajectory of the path, the actual curriculum Michael has had all this time. And it's really in concert with the theme of your show, Grief to Growth. What he has been teaching me all along is to to become lucid, which is defined a particular way by Michael, to become lucid in the dream of the world and realize that every time I think I'm suffering, or I'm frightened, or I'm angry, or I'm imagining myself unloved, unseen, that it is a, like a token or a cue to wake me up to the understanding that I have lost my lucidity. In the dream of the world. And I have imagined myself as some sort of being who can suffer loss and die. Okay, let's back up because we're going to return to that. That's an ongoing theme. Okay. As a child, there was a pedophile in my family, not my direct family, it was my grand uncle. And my father had a very bad temper, because he had been abused as a, you young boy. And so my mother regularly would take me and leave me at her mother's house or at her aunt's house. Her aunt was wonderful, never had any problems there. Grandmother and grandfather on her side, wonderful. But they had an outboard motor business. And they worked on it sometimes even on the weekends, and grandmother would leave me at her brother's house. And her brother was a pedophile, unbeknownst to them, apparently. I choose to believe she did not know. I met Michael the first time in my psyche, and this is the first time the grief to growth theme comes up. I met him the first time when I was 5 years old. I was— it was around Easter, and I was attempting to hide from Alfred. That was the pedophile. And I was wearing my Easter dress and Sunday shoes. And it was nothing to climb in. We were a very poor family. And these were some of my best clothes. And I didn't want to ruin them. And I was always— we were always made to be cognizant of our clothes, lest we destroy them because they were so expensive, particularly shoes. And I had on these little slick-soled Sunday shoes. And I knew I was never going to get up the tree that Michael suddenly came into my consciousness as this incredibly intelligent presence that I could feel. And I could— he wasn't speaking in words. He was speaking in concepts and speaking with a forceful love, a love that was not deniable. His presence was palpable when he directed me up this tree and I argued with him internally and said, I can't get up those, that tree with these shoes on, break my shoes, I'll get a spanking. Michael said, don't worry, basically, I'll show you where to put your hands and feet. Go to the tree. And I went to the tree and like the handholds and the foot placings were immediately obvious as they became necessary. And I was guided up this tree. And then my grand uncle passed by looking for me, thrashing the shrubbery, which was azalea hedges along the house, looking for me because I had often hidden there. And he had one wooden leg, so he was thrashing the shrubberies with his cane, pushing them aside, looking for me. But I wasn't there this time. I was up high. There's a funny thing about people, you know, they don't look up that much. So up high, I learned to climb. I learned to climb as a way of hiding. I did a lot of hiding in my life. But one, the place where this comes up is, yes, I was repeatedly assaulted by this pedophile, but there were blessings in it. And the first blessing was that I found Michael. And because I found Michael in my psyche, and there was a connection established where I was anxious to hear from him. Once you've felt this kind of love, this ecstatic love descend over your psyche, you want it more. And it raises the frisson, you know, the hair stands up all over your body and chi spangles all over. You feel like angels are dancing all over your skin, or God has just kissed you on the head. You don't know what has happened, but it's so delicious. You just want to chase it. You want it more. And so this was a great blessing, because as a 5-year-old, to be tuned so deeply inward at that age, where you're looking and listening inward, literally my life, I went through it, looking to provoke the rushes of that chi, the feeling of that presence descending on me. And so if I said, or I even thought, something and that phenomenon occurred, I attended to it. It was like he was teaching me going Marco Polo, Marco Polo, to find him and to do what summoned the chi. My father, having the bad temper that he did because of his terrible past, he and I had a contest of wills for many years where I just kept loving him. And forgiving him, even though he blistered my bum every day. Okay, every day until I— between the ages of 3 and 11. I got it some days twice. And he would always weep afterwards and say, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. You deserve a better father. I hit you in anger. I should never hit you in anger. I said terrible, scary things to you in anger. I should never speak to you that way. And so this incredible bond between Daddy and I grew. And over time, Dad became just sweeter and sweeter and sweeter. And he respected me more and more. Because I wouldn't lie to him no matter what he questioned me on. Did you do so and so? Knowing I was gonna get blistered, I would say yes, sir. I did. Okay. Because I couldn't lie. First of all, I was a terrible liar. It showed all over my face. There was absolutely no point in even trying. And I knew I'd get it worse if I did lie to him and he discerned it. And also because I did not want to offend Michael. I did not want to offend this loving presence whom I initially thought was God. Okay, now technically, we're all God. There's nothing here but God. Anyway, so over the years, I would climb into trees daily to try and get it to rain. I would sing to the sky in the summer when it was too hot. We had no air conditioning. It was that long ago. Yes, sorry. And I would climb the trees in the afternoon and sing to the sky hoping that if I pleased God with my song, he would bless us with rain to cool things down so we could all sleep. So I went until I was about 15 years old doing this almost every day in the summer. And I thought it was me bringing the rain. And, well, God bringing it because of my songs. And then at the age of 15, I learned about a weather phenomenon called the Bermuda High. The Bermuda High is actually responsible for the rains coming every afternoon between 4 and 6 in the summertime in Florida had nothing to do with me. And this kind of shocked me into a reorientation. All right, all what I considered at that point, suddenly, that's magical thinking. I set it aside. Okay. Michael is not real. That's just something imaginary that I made up because I had such a tormented childhood. Part of my greater self created this relationship and this being, this presence. Apparently, this is— this was the thinking at the time. So from 15 to 20, I tried a lot of drugs. And I became an empiricist. And I became very focused in the physical. I was always a very athletic child. And rash, because up until 15, I didn't think anything was going to hurt me. I appeared to be made of rubber, or I had somebody looking after me, absorbing all the blows for me. And up until 15 and learning about Bermuda High, I believed it was Michael. Hmm. So then at the age of 20, I was out being rash, riding horseback with a friend of mine. I'd forgotten— I was on a barrel mare named Ticker, very gentle 13-year-old horse, and I had forgotten to bring the feed. For her, um, and to lure the male, the stallion that I didn't want to ride because we didn't have a good rapport, me and the stallion. He didn't like me, um, but he liked my friend. So I was going to catch him for her. And as I'd forgotten the feed, I'm on Ticker and I'm saying, you know, I'm— I bet I can maneuver him into the paddock chasing him on Ticker because she's so maneuverable, and then we'll catch him in the little paddock. And so I spun about on Ticker, and we went after this stallion. And I was in a hard run, not a full-out run, a hard gallop, I would say, close behind the stallion, very close. And he was a big horse. He was over 17 hands. And everything— I don't know if you— hands are 4 inches, 4 inches. So 17 times 4 at the height of the shoulder. Big horse, okay, almost 6 feet at the shoulder. And everything slipped into slow motion. Now I'm like in jockey style, standing in the stirrups with my knees bent, you know, with the saddle hitting me in the bottom on every stride. And everything suddenly slips into slow motion. Now I've seen this by this time many times in my life, things slip into slow motion whenever something bad is about to unfold for me. And generally, I know with a few seconds lead what it's to be. All right. And Michael said to me, he's kicking. Again, without words, was just an announced concept, an announcing concept. He is kicking. And I said, he can't get me up here. Boy, was I wrong. This is where he kicked me. Okay. He hit me in the face. I never felt the blow. I watched the hooves coming towards me in slow motion. And just before the impact, I left, I rolled left out of my body. I had been one to bilocate as a child very easily. I would be, for instance, laying in bed and looking at a window. And suddenly, I'm at the window looking out the window, but my body's laying in bed. I can remember looking out the window wanting to go out into the yard and play and that the neighbor had a turkey in a coop. Behind my auntie's house. And I'm standing at the window and suddenly, whoosh, I'm standing over the bird in the cage. And of course, my body's still back in the bed. So in this instance, here comes the hoof. I roll left out of my body. It's not something I can do at will. It happens or it doesn't. There I was, about 150 feet away, somewhere between 100, 150. And I turn around and I look back and I watched the horse striding watched the body, let go of the reins, the head snapped back, it fell backwards onto the rump of the horse, and it bounced a few times as the horse kept striding. And I'm thinking, gosh, I, I hope the feet don't get stuck in the stirrups. And they didn't. The body went over the back of the rump of the horse, landed on its head, and then the shoulders and the hips and the legs hit. I was in a lustrous vast. And I felt perfect. I felt so good. I said to myself, nothing— I'm perfect. Nothing can ever hurt me again. And suddenly, boom, I'm aware of Michael, I feel his presence. And I hear him more or less say to me, Nothing could have ever hurt you to begin with. You're an eternal being. Okay, well, the interesting thing at this point is that I can taste, not with my mouth, but with my being, the verity of what he's saying. Truth has a taste or a scent, like the scent of mashed potatoes is wedded to the mashed potatoes, to the actual physical thing. So too, truth has its own taste. Anyway, I knew right away he was telling the truth. And I said, well, that being so, why was it all so scary? And he said, because you believed you could suffer loss and die. But that was necessary too. Because if you had not believed you could suffer loss and die, you would have never taken the experience seriously. There wouldn't have been as much, so to speak, skin in the game. And you wouldn't have learned what you went there to learn, nor would have you done what you went there to do. And I said, well, I don't remember what I went there to do. Tell me what it is. And he said, you went to summon your will. And I said, summon my will? You mean I went through all of that suffering just to learn or discern what I want? And he said, no, you misunderstand what I mean by the will. Okay, at this juncture, I became aware that there is individual desire. And then there is the will that is holy. Okay, by holy, I mean it is wholly shared by all creation. All creation wills this together. We have just forgotten that we will it together. And that will is that the venue and every point of consciousness within it, waken and remember its true nature as consciousness itself. Because this puts us in our experience of our godly estate of being able to summon into what we call the real world, okay, that which we desire, which is different from the will. Okay, anything that is contrary to the will that is holy is just your personal desire. There's nothing necessarily wrong with it except for that it keeps you from your full attainment, and it is perhaps limiting others in their attainment. Um, and that full attainment is to your godly estate. So that the physics— and he assures me this will happen— the physics of the venue will change as we as humanity have perfected our benevolence so that we can be trusted to wield our wills without hurting ourselves or each other. And he tells me this is the number one thing that holds people back and all this attraction and all this, okay, trying to get things to manifest, etc. That's all well and good. But if it's— if you want it to actually happen, you have to perfect your benevolence. And what you are willing or wishing for must be in concert with the will that is holy, because if it's not, you are going to be in conflict with the designer of the venue itself. And so it's going to be detrimental to the awakening of the venue and therefore detrimental to you. So we are kind of in a rubber room here where the— we pray things all the time, not knowing we're praying them as we say them. You make me sick. I am sick to my death with your behavior. I am so fed up. These are things we say to ourselves, which have repercussions in reality, as we call it. Okay. Jeff Thompson, I just watched your interview with him this morning. He's, he's really on to the truth that we speak into being many things, even if we're not speaking them out loud, not realizing what we're doing. And that we need to be more mindful of the energy we're hurling out into space. Because this is the purview of a conscious creator, of an awakened creator, of a lucid creator. So anyway, during this NDE, the first thing he did when he said he had to show me was he sent me to back down into the dream of the world, reliving a part of my life where I was 18 months old. And mom was putting on me my first set of new shoes. And this was a big deal to mom. I lived this through mom's perspective and mine as an 18-month-old laying on the floor screaming because she— I thought she tied me to the ground. I didn't understand why I had these stiff, nasty things on my little dainty feet that wanted to feel the earth, not the shoes. So Mom, at the same time, had gone through a lot of trouble to set aside the money to get these shoes for me to protect my feet. So I had— I saw in this, being the child and feeling through my mother and watching all of us at the same time, it was very interesting. You relive it and you experience it from everyone's point of view and watching it too. The shoes had been given. To protect my feet. And I, by the labels I had assigned to the experience, had made it the horrible situation that it was to me. Horrible situation I experienced was entirely of my own creation. Suddenly, with this realization, I'm back with Michael in the lustrous fast. And I'm like, did I get that right? Is that what you're trying to show me? That is indeed what he was trying to show me. So if I had seen the blessing at that time for that tribulation, I'd have been able to turn the grief to growth, I'd have been able to turn the poison to an elixir. You can still do it in retrospect. You can do it years down the line by reassigning yourself lucidly, consciously, the significance that you give to an event. Once you find the blessing in it, you know, because it's automatically the thing that lifts the burden of the grief from your heart. It happens automatically. You have found the boon sufficient to justify that suffering. So another venue, another vignette happened, and it was of struggling with Alfred, of fighting Alfred, and of knowing Michael's presence with me in that event, of feeling him, of leaving my body, over and over again when this abuse happens. And it happened, and I learned from that not only that I was accompanied, and that I had this, this incredible resource, Michael, his love, his ever-present love, and his redemptive sight. He could look upon things and show me the blessings outside of time. I did not have to wait as far down the time stream if I would listen to him. I wouldn't have to do it as much in retrospect. It could happen as it happened. I could understand, or I could— and this is what I advise everybody, is what I learned from this— reserve judgment. Don't label it at all. Wait and see. Wait and see how it rebounds. So the third— back with Michael, I went into the luster's vasque, asked him, do I get this right? That I found the boon was you, and that I learned that I was not my body. I learned, I began to learn I was not my body. Because whenever anyone would touch me, my dad spanking me, Alfred abusing me, I would say to myself, he cannot touch me. He can touch my body. He cannot sully me. He cannot even touch me.

Right.

So that is what I learned from that. And that is a beautiful boon to realize you're not this form. The next vignette, my dad was wearing a switch out on my legs. And the same thing happened again and again. I mean, it was not just one episode of dad hitting me with a switch. It was many that I relived as a sort of this sort of event. This sort of event happened so many times, okay. But I realized each time I just left my body when it was happening. Again, I'm not my body. Okay, so I had found this escape hatch. I'd go— so from these, I learned that everything that happens to us is actually happening for us. People say, Why is there so much suffering? Well, your memory is not being wiped before you get here. There is no river leith. I take that directly from Michael. There's no river of forgetfulness. The reason you don't remember is very simple. The human brain, when you're born, takes almost 30 years to mature. And during that 30 years, your brain which is a mechanistic, chemically working thing, orients you to live in this venue. It orients you to believe you're a body, to believe you're your family, to believe your pets, to believe you're your house, your neighborhood, your friends. Okay? All of the things that are important to the body's survival. But nobody wants you to forget. They want you to wake up. They want you to remember, that's why there's so much suffering. Every time you suffer, it's an opportunity to wake up. In fact, it should be like a token to you saying, wake up, wake up, you've lost your lucidity. You think you're something that can suffer loss and die. But there's something in this for you. Because you're an eternal divine being who came here to awaken the whole world to the fact that they're dreaming. Now, dying was exactly like awakening from a dispiriting dream. You know, you wake up from a bad dream, you think, oh my God, I'm so glad I don't— my existence comes from a higher level, and nothing in that dream can actually hurt me. That's exactly what it was like when I died. It was holy smoke. At this point, I'm going, nothing in the dream of the world could have ever hurt me at all. That is amazing. Okay. And everything that hurt me hurt me because of the labels I assigned. Everything I suffered, I suffered because I made it with my labels. The situation that it was for me, other people were having a completely different experience. Shazam! Mom was putting shoes on my feet because she loved me. Okay, so at this point, I'm, I'm laughing. I'm laughing because people do this to ourselves constantly. Michael and I are just roaring with laughter at the way we pray— play this prank on ourselves. This is a prank. It's very funny from outside of the prank. When you get into your eternal perspective, you're going to go, that was hysterical. I can't believe I did that to myself, right? Because from there it's funny, but from within the venue, not, not so funny. But it's supposed to wake you up. Okay. Now, because I was going through all this stuff as a child, I had bad nightmares every night. I didn't want to go to sleep. Michael started coming into my nightmares and making me lucid in the dream. Why are you running? I'd be running from monsters. Why are you running? Because the monsters are gonna get me. They're chasing me. And he would say, no, they're not chasing you. They're coming out to greet you. You made those monsters, you summoned them into being, they're coming out. They're coming to you to show you that you're the power that created them. They're trying to show you where the power is. Now, this never really sunk into my awareness, into my being until over time, many times, like in, in the near-death experience, I became lucid. Looking back on the world saying it's just a dream. This is lucidity. I became aware of my own creative ability that I had been doing unconsciously before by labeling situations in such a way that they were painful to me, instead of not judging or labeling it in the way I chose to see it consciously. Jeff Thompson was saying he's in the space between the judgments. He is the space between the judgments. He isn't in it. He is that space. And that's the next level you move to realizing you are that consciousness itself, in which all of this is unfolding. The way out is in, and you're the portal. Okay. So We laughed and we laughed about what an incredible joke we're playing on ourselves, because we're godlings, making ourselves miserable or making ourselves happy by the way we wield our wills to label situations. And then we wept and we wept, because it's a tragedy that people wield their godliest state unconsciously and make themselves miserable. This was the source of all of the suffering in the world. It could all be stopped if people just learn to become lucid in the dream of the world and consciously supervise their mind instead of letting their mind impersonate them with a whole bunch of scary thoughts that get triggered in situations that remind you of some bad thing that happened before. And letting those scary thoughts full of energy and passion because they're born of some sort of trauma run away with you in the present moment. The only way anything from your past gets into your future is through now, your present moment. So you have to choose to supervise your mind. And Michael, in my last really big revelation with him in 2007, said to me, remember, I taught you to be lucid as a child in your nightmares. Remember, I taught you about lucidity when you died. Now I'm telling you, anytime you imagine yourself some suffering, sad, pained being, you have forgotten what you are. You have descended into identity communication with a character you're playing in a temporal dream. And when you leave here, you're going to remember you are not that being. You are this consciousness. You are consciousness, okay, itself. You are awareness. So now he says to me, anything that upsets you, you need to remember it. You need to use it as the thing that makes you Lucid. Aha, I'm in pain, emotional pain. What am I saying? What is my mind saying to myself that is generating this pain? Okay, because usually your mind is lying to you. Your mind is telling you some past situation that was dangerous, sad, hurtful, whatever, injurious, is back. It's back. It's happening again. And it's usually not. You're having an irrational response to a present situation because of a past event that has been triggered and is now impersonating you, you the consciousness, using the energy of your godliest state to create an experience you don't want. And that's the way it actually factually works. And once you discover that you're the one doing it to yourself. With the labels you apply, you become the space between in which all of this unfolds and cannot really hurt you. So with this, I said to him, my God, this is also clear. It's also perfect and beautiful. The suffering wakes us to remember our true identity. We stop being programmed by our brain's maturation process to identify with all the stuff we are not. And realizing this, I thought, I have to go back. I have to go back, Michael. How do I go back? I have to tell everybody. How do I go back? And he said, well, you can go back anywhere you want. Now, this took me years to realize how critical what he said next was. He said, you can go back any place you want. You can go back into the moment before the accident occurred and avoid the accident altogether. Together and live your time stream, having never had this accident. But if you go back that way, you will not recall what I just showed you. And you only want to go back to tell everybody this, so that they too can be free. So in order to go back and, and keep these memories as part of that time stream, you must go back back through the last moment and reinhabit the damaged body as it, as it is in that time stream. That way, you'll keep the memories. So I said, well, how do I do it? He said, remember the last moment you were in your body. And that was easy, was the rump coming up in the air. And him saying he's kicking. And then summon your will to return. Okay, this is what he said I came here to do. To summon my will, and he meant the will that is holy. And the will that is holy is the manifestation of the golden timeline where the venue itself and every point of consciousness within it wakens to being conscious, to being lucid. All right. So I did exactly what he directed. I remembered the last moment. I willed passionately to go back. Because I was full of love for everybody in the venue, but especially for the thousands of people that I saw were like me coming into the venue and having NDEs to give it a reorientation, to refresh their memory of who and what we all really are, so that they could bring that memory back and jostle everybody else and say, hey, wake up, wake up, we're doing this to ourselves, and we're doing it together. Okay, and we can wake up together. So bam, I was back in the dream of the world, felt like the rushing of the wind. Pardon me. And there I was back in my body trying to make it stand up. That's my NDE. The messages of that NDE— I'm 65 now— have matured over time. It's like he planted— like he did. First of all, it's like he took my old belief system. Your belief system limits your perceptions. Your belief system limits your ability to grow in many ways. Okay. And what he did was shatter the edges of my empiricist mind. Okay, he took it apart so that he could rearrange the connections between the dots. Of my own reckonings. Okay, and give me a broader, expand— more expansive view over time. And over the years, he's prepared my mind to be able to accept larger and larger chunks of understanding of the way this works. And what the purpose of my still being here is, because after you've had experiences like that, the world's pretty mundane. And you keep saying, okay, when am I going to do the thing I came back here to do? Because I'm ready to get out when you're ready to let me out. Okay. I still— I walk in— I'll walk outside in electrical storms now. I'm not scared anymore. If he wants me, he can have me. And I don't think he wants to take me out because, as he says, you're lucid now. Only a lucid dreamer can change the dream. We want you to stay in the dream.

I'm excited to announce I have a great new resource. It's called GEMS, 4 Steps to Move from Grief to Joy.. And what it is, it's 4 things that I've found that I do on a daily basis to help me to navigate my grief. And I'm offering it to you free of charge. It's a free download. Just go to my website, www.grieftogrowth.com/gems, G-E-M-S, and grab it there for free. I hope you enjoy it.

Okay, we've prepared you all this time. Now we need you to stay in the dream. So that's kind of where I am now. But I will say, I'll add on, the thing that has most matured my settlement in awareness of what I am was last year, I took myself off Lexapro, which is an SSRI, under doctor supervision. Okay. Lexapro was not playing pretty with my other medications, and it nearly killed me a few times. And I— with drug interactions. And I was in hell, figuratively speaking, but very real hell, because the suicidal impulse was chronic. I'm not talking about ideation, I'm talking about impulse. I took myself almost completely off my pain medication at the same time because the pain medication was mixing with the Lexapro to cause serotonin syndrome, which is what nearly killed me over and over again until finally we diagnosed— I figured it— Michael told me what it was. I looked it up, I called the doctor, and sure enough, they said, yeah, that's what it's been all this time. Isn't that interesting? Anyway, the nerve endings throughout your body scream, you feel like you've got the flu. Everything hurts way worse than it should. Constant suicidal impulse. It feels like it felt to me like I was being stabbed all over with tiny little stainless steel cocktail knives, the swords, you know, the little cocktail swords that they put the— okay, that's what it felt like, all over my muscles. So not only was I sick, it felt like the flu, and in a lot of physical pain, and that's nerve pain, the stabbing sword feeling. But the suicidal impulse was constant, constant. Just like your brain says, roll over in bed, because you're uncomfortable, or eat even before your stomach growls. It's, you know, Brian D Smith, eat. My brain was saying, make it stop, kill the body, make it stop, kill the body, you know, because it was that physically intolerable. And so what every— worse yet, every bad psychological bundle of frightened, angry self-talk I had ever constructed anywhere in my mind space came alive and started playing. Constant dread. Every second I believed I was going to drop dead. I'm just going to drop dead if I don't kill myself, right? It was just— it was 11 months of this and not sleeping for days on end. And the only way I could escape this was I would go in and lay down and I would I would create— I created a metaphor. There was a place I had been in my life, a natatorium locker room where I learned to scuba dive, where I had felt Michael intensely present in my late 20s. And every time I went in there, I had this really strong feeling of presence. And so I— and I had met Michael in dreams when I started shortly after I started writing. He came to me in dreams in the context of that locker room is where it was sighted. And so in order to be closer to him, I would go into this locker room metaphor, I would visualize it really intensely. Michael calls this imagine-festing. Because you're hearing it, you're seeing it, you're smelling the chlorine from the pool above, you hear the pumps chanting, the pool pumps chanting distantly, you know, the water's dripping in the showers, drip, troop troop. The air is very moist. And so there's this haziness, you magifest it. And then I decided at the top of the stairs where the natatorium used to be, I was going to create another world, a knockoff of this one that was a little bit better weather-wise. And I would go up the stairs, magifesting the light streaming in around the doors, throw the doors open, walk out onto the beautiful sandy beach that I am manifested many times very, very vividly. Okay, because the mind is like a teething puppy, it needs something to chew on. All right. So when the mind is rebelling so badly that it just won't quit, you can forcibly put it onto something precious and beautiful. Instead. And so you put yourself into that. So I learned to do this over and over again. And now, I've just learned to supervise my mind so much so that I have, as I mentioned, I'm not in the space between the judgments. I am the space in which it all unfolds. I am unbothered. By most things anymore. And if I am bothered, I stop and I say, what silly story am I telling myself? Hmm. Okay, because none of this can touch me unless I give it power to touch me. All of your frightening pain thoughts get all of their power to affect your experience from you. And yet all of us believe we are victims of our emotions. And the emotions are the result of your self-talk. Whatever you're feeling, it's something you're saying to yourself. So this is where I am now. I have to say that the boon I got from Lexapro withdrawals was I am like the— first I went to the observer mode, observe the mind, observe it creating your experience, observe it creating the emotions. But after a while, the observer sufficiently fed the chooser. And the chooser began to direct the mind and choose the narrative it preferred. So this is where I am now. And if you can get yourself into chooser mode, if you can just be observer, you'll eventually awaken the chooser. The chooser, once you've observed long enough, you sabotaging your own peace and happiness. Once you observe your mind attacking your peace and happiness, you realize it can't attack your peace and happiness if it were you. It's not you. It's your tool. This kind of snaps you into chooser mode, that realization. It's like an aha, I found the switch that activates this the way I want it to work. And you're the switch. It's your will. It's your attention. It's where you put your focus. Last metaphor. If your mind is like a dark space, and over in this corner of the room, you've got all your hopes and desires and fondest memories. And over in this corner of the room, you've got all your fears, your losses, your disappointments. But you are the one with the flashlight, and that flashlight is your attention. Supervise your mind. Cast the light of your attention where you want things to grow, because you're the light that makes them grow. So there we are.

Absolutely. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. There is So much I want to talk to you about. First of all, I want to— there's, there's a word that you used earlier, and I've heard you use in other interviews, and it confused me at first. So I'm gonna clarify it for people that are listening that might be— because you use the word chi or chi, and chi. So tell people what chi is. I know now, but I didn't know when I first heard it.

As a scientist, it's difficult for me to use words imprecisely. So I have to say, as a scientist, I cannot tell you what she is. As a mystic, I can tell you she is love. Okay, there is nothing here but God. Nothing but God. Everything here is made of God, by God, from God. Okay, there is no evil. It's just different players in this prank, provoking you, provoking us all, shaking us up, unconscious that they're being used by higher power to do that job. Everybody's just doing their job. If there's a devil, he's just doing his job. Okay, his job is to test you, to push you. If there's a devil, it's probably you. Okay. She is experienced by me. I can be precisely correct about that and sure that I'm saying something precisely correct. Chi is experienced by me in a variety of ways. It feels like light dazzling all over my body, or angels dancing on your skin. It feels euphoric. It feels like love. It feels like a love that has nothing to do with the love that we call love here. It is much more encompassing. If there were a word for what it closely resembles, it— I would say it's compassion. That sort of love. It is a love that includes everybody and everything. Even your worst enemy. Do you know who I really look forward to celebrating with in the eternal is Alfred, the abuser. Okay, because we're going to laugh at how we played this game with one another. And he, loving me, volunteered to be hated by me until the time I was able to forgive him, in order to give me an experience of Michael at such a young age, to push me so desperately and deeply that I found Michael in my own consciousness, that he was eternally available. This is like somebody offering to be hated by you because they're going to do something to you that's for your own good, but you're going to really hate it while it's happening. Okay. So I look forward to celebrating with Alfred and having a good laugh. Okay.

That's a, that's a very deep concept. I know people are going to have to have to chew on.

They'll wrestle with that.

Yeah, people will wrestle with that. And as I've heard you speak before, and even as I heard you this time in the telling of your story, your love for your father just comes through, like, incredibly. And you say that he beat you every day from the time you were 3 to the age of 11. And then every day he would apologize for it. How did you forgive him at the time? Was it later when you forgave him? Because it sounds like you forgave him right there at the time.

Every time. Because I could feel his pain. And there was no relief from me, for me, from his, from my suffering until he was free too. It's the same thing with Alfred. For many years, I endeavored to totally be free of any signs of any of the damage he did to me, to take away his effects, to nullify his error. Because I wanted him to be free. I didn't want to be tied to that electromagnetic frequency of suffering. I wanted instead to redeem it, to find the elixir in the poison, to find the pearl hidden in the muck. If I could find the pearl hidden in the muck, I could redeem anything. And we're the redeemer. We choose to condemn, or we choose to, to free. It's not really forgiveness is freeing, you're freeing yourself from the burden of that negative energy. You're freeing the other person. Because how can you be happy in heaven, knowing that person is excluded and suffering in their own created hell? How can compassion won't let you do it? The love that comes to you from that perspective demands you find a way to free the one who freed you through making you suffer. They made you suffer and you became free. Because of that suffering, you disidentified from anything that could suffer. And you want to give it to them. It's the natural response to say, well, he's dead now. So how can I do it? I will destroy any sign of damage in me and totally transform what he did out of being misguided and suffering himself, no doubt. I will transform it to something beautiful to bring back to my maker to say, this is what I made with a tragedy you gave me. I did this. Okay, this is my magic. Stay with us, we'll be right back.

You know, one of the hardest things about grief Most of the people in your life just don't get it. They want you to be further along than you are. They get uncomfortable when you bring it up, so you stop bringing it up. And that's why I started writing. My Substack is where I go deeper. Thoughts I don't always get to on the podcast. Essays on consciousness, on continuing bonds, on what it actually means to carry loss and still build a life. The stuff that used to keep me up at night, written out in a way that I hope meets you in the morning. But here's what I didn't expect when I started it: the community that showed up. People who are doing exactly what you're doing— listening, learning, trying to find their footing. Readers who comment, who share their own stories, who remind each other that none of us are as alone in this as we feel. And that's what the Substack has become— a place to go deeper with me and to find your people. It's free to subscribe. Find me at grief2growth.com/substack. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/substack. Or just go to Substack and search for Grief to Growth. I hope to see you there. Yeah, that's beautiful. Thank you. And you use the word venue, and you talk about life being kind of like a dream. And I was— I think of The Matrix. I think The Matrix was a fantastic movie on so many levels. So tell— what is your interpretation of the world? Because I think I also heard you say, there's no world out there at some point. And I've heard this concept over and over again. I've been reading Tom Campbell lately, and I just read Biocentrism. And I'm reading all these people that are saying that— saying there's no world out there. So what do you mean when you say that?

Now, mind you, Michael started telling me this. I'm— the other thing that Michael did was he created a— by blowing apart my belief structure at the edges so he could integrate new ideas in chronically, he also sort of opened a hole in my mind, a conduit between us where we could meet and I could understand things, hear things from him, even that didn't yet make sense. And one of them was about 4 or 5 years ago, he started saying there's no world out there. Everything will start to make sense to you once you get your orientation. You're not oriented. The orientation is this: there's no world out there. Because there is no out. There is no out. Consciousness exists not in a spacious way. Everything is happening inside consciousness. So there's no world, there's no out. So there's no world out there. Everything is happening in consciousness. But we have these meat suits that we put on in order to interact in this venue and to trick us into thinking we are the meat suit, because it can suffer loss and die and it can hurt. So The objective is to reorient us with our suffering. And that orientation is you're actually creating your experience. It's happening in a— at the level of consciousness itself. It's not happening to you, thrust upon you in some outwardly real projected venue. That is all being filtered, projected through your eyes and your expectations and this apparatus to give you an experience of spatial existence. It is a simulated— he tells me time can exist without space. Okay, now this, these are images he's been working with me on for a couple of years. Time is change. Without change, there is no time. So as soon as you introduce a thought, you have introduced change. And time has begun. I kind of think the first thought was a thought of spatial— spatiality.

Okay.

If you, if you realize that everything that happens in your life, the last moment could contains everything that happened before. Every parameter is in the last moment, like nested little Russian dolls. The last moment implies every antecedent condition, okay, of the whole thing. So if you take— in the lustrous vast, everything exists simultaneously possible. Okay, some things are more easily possible than others, more likely than others, but all things are possible and exist as hypothetical realities, hypothetical realities that you then experience as if you would be reading a book, watching a movie. You go into that moment containing every antecedent moment, every antecedent condition. You go into that moment and a spatial environment expands around you. Okay, it's all hypothetical. That's why you can go into the lustrous vast and go into a life review and relive a vignette. That's why he said to me, you can go back at any moment you want and live it differently. You can even avoid the accident, but you won't remember what I just showed you, and you'll have to wake up again with some other incident because you won't be able to carry the awakefulness. Is the knowledge that you are the conscious knowledge that you have previously been unconsciously constructing your own reality, and doing so through your fears instead of through your love and your joy and what you aspire to. Okay, so that's what I mean by there is no world out there. There is no out. God created all of this. By recombina— recombining various traits, trait packages to create dreams of us individual little beings. Your trait package, my trait package, my history, your history, what we've gone through to bring us to this moment. Okay. And we as gods are capable inside our own consciousnesses to create worlds. And I'm a writer, I create worlds and characters. Okay, I'm only come recently to realize that they have their own reality. And mindspace is contiguous. There are no separations, you can get into the, to the locker room metaphor. Anybody can get in there. All right, because mindspace is contiguous, there are no separations, but we explode. Everybody's looking for the other added dimensions that we can't see. Dimensions. There's all these dimensions, physicists say. Well, they're looking in the wrong place. They're inside our consciousness. The dimensions explode inwardly as God expands through each of us, creating more and more venues of interaction, of experience. So I know that's quite a rambling answer. And it's a lot of stuff. It's really dense. I hope it people can pick it up somewhere and it lead them someplace fruitful.

Yeah, there, there is a lot. And again, it's a concept that I keep coming across, and I need to hear different ways from different people. So I want to say to people, if you're struggling to understand this, you're normal. It's like when you first start hearing about quantum physics, you know, someone said, if you think you understand quantum physics, you don't understand quantum physics. The idea that time and space are relative, you know, it's a concept that we— it goes against what our senses tell us, it goes against what our meat suit is telling us. People say, well, my experience is there is time and there is space. But so we have to just kind of—

Experience.

Yes.

Experience. Experience changes from moment to moment, from person to person, from label to label. So why would we count it to be so important? It's— people go, direct experience is the measure of reality. Oh, poppycock. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, all you have to do is look at a few optical illusions to understand that our experiences and what's necessarily true and understand the way that, way that our brains work and what our brains filter out. You know, perception is not what we perceive it to be. It's, it's, it's, it's subjective. We all have different experiences, you know, even if we're in the same place having the same event happen around us. So these concepts actually go back to what we actually understood before the modern era. I mean, really, it's only about 100, 200 years ago that we really got lost with understanding the way the universe works. And I believe that the things that Michael is showing you is what the mystics have told us for thousands of years.

Yes. And I am obviously a mystic. I mean, I used to— I'm a little kid who used to go climb up into the trees in order to commune with God and it. She rushes through my body and, and sings to the sky. I didn't realize I was a mystic for many years, except for— well, it took until I was about 11, 12 years old, where I realized every time I tried to talk to other people about this subtle experience that I was having that was so compelling, they were like, they had no clue what I was on about. And so I, for many years, I just stopped talking about Michael and stopped stop, particularly after the near-death experience, when I started trying to tell people right away when I got back. Right away, I started telling my family because I wanted to wake all them up right away, you know, right? We're all like, it's just brain damage, you'll be all right, it'll go away, you'll recover. That was their reaction.

I want to talk about the word mystic though, because I'm a scientist also, I'm a chemical engineer. And I think the word mystic it makes us think, okay, these, these are people that are studying things that aren't real. They're not this. But I think that is actually the ultimate reality. So like, I just appreciate— I just read Tom Campbell's book, Theory of Everything. The guy is, he's a physicist. But he also studied at the Monroe Institute and has had all these out-of-body experiences. So we call it mysticism because our instruments can't measure it. But I believe it's the actual ultimate reality. So when we do turn within and we do start to understand these concepts, it's not woo woo. It's not wishful thinking. It is actually why we are here. And it makes sense. And I'm glad to see people like you who are putting such thoughtful words behind it and who are explaining it that way. And Bernardo Kastrup is a guy that I've read, like, everything he's ever written. He's a, he's a computer scientist and a PhD in philosophy. And he writes about he brings the science and the philosophy together, which is where I think where the ultimate truth comes. So what you're saying to me makes, makes perfect sense. And I want to, I do want to talk about the idea of manifestation also, because I, it's one of those things, it's kind of like reincarnation. I believe it's real, but it's not the way most people think it is. Because we hear manifestation, we think, okay, That means if I just believe hard enough, I can be a millionaire, I'll never get sick, and I can drive a nice car. But I hear you talking about manifestation more of like the Will, capital W, and being in that will. So could you explain that a little bit more?

Okay. The ultimate thing that we all want to be is happy. Yes, we are all praying to be happy, consciously and unconsciously, all the time. We at the same time shoot all our prayers in the foot by negating them with the words we choose to utter those prayers. Or with which words that we choose that counteract those prayers. You— I'm having a hard time, a little seizure. I have those from the brain damage.

Yeah.

But it's— I'm blessedly, really, it's not bad.

Take your time.

I just lose my train of thought for a moment and I feel a little unwell and I flush. But that's why I'm disabled. This. Okay, we all want to be happy. We're always praying to be happy. But then we're saying things to ourselves that counteract our own will. We're not even paying attention to the words we're uttering. In 2008, Michael said to me, and this is one of the few times that he came very close to using words, he said, if you want your words to have power, you must first cull from your speech and your thoughts, all the words you would not will to empower. The venue is designed to protect you from your rash utterances. We're children of God, we are godlings. We have massive power. Have you ever watched a baby elephant learn to use its trunk? Okay, it's all over the place. They smack themselves in the eyes and ears trying to use the thing. Same thing with our godly estate. Same thing with our desire. Our passion summons to us the safest version of what we are emotionally, spiritually prepared to have, the safest version that will do us the least harm. And as long as we are rationally uttering things and doing it unconsciously, The venue is not going to change the physics at a quantum level to deliver to you anything that is dangerous to you or someone else. I like if, if I learn how to wield the will in this venue and do things that other people can't do, it's like handing the neighborhood bully— do you hand him a plastic baseball bat? He's going to smack the other kids with it. No, the venue is going to hand you a Nerf bat. A Nerf bat won't hurt anybody. Okay, as a metaphor, the more perfected your benevolence, the more you're living in your compassion, the more the venue, the more you're not uttering words rashly, you're being conscious about what you will and what you say and what you try to manifest with your labels. The more you're doing that consciously, the more the venue, the power comes to you because it's safe. You're not going to hurt anybody with it. I mean, I start noticing I have literally materialized things, not before my very eyes. I don't know why I'm not allowed to see it happen. But I have said I want this thing and I need this thing. And I went away to look for it elsewhere. And I was very passionate about it because it's a very important important situation at the time to me, emotionally very important. Walked away to go look for the things I needed elsewhere, searched all the places it should be in the house, came back out to where I was working outside, and there were the supplies I needed next to my— next to my tools. All right, they had not been there. Okay, they had not been there. In fact, there was a gentleman working there with me and I asked him, Red, Where did these nails come from? Okay, I went inside and searched all the vessels where I keep nails and bolts and nuts and stuff like that. And these weren't here. They're laying right here next to my hammer, exactly 4 nails that I need to finish this job so that I can put my peacocks that are coming into that coop. All right. And he was like, I haven't been down off the roof. I'm working up here. I haven't been down. I don't know what happened. I've seen this happen more than once. It's happened quite a few times. And I think the reason it happens— and I find things.

I've—

not long ago, I went to my sister's house. She came to the door. She was weeping. I was like, what's the matter, Chrissy? And she was like, I've lost mom's ring. You know, the dome ring with the diamonds that I gave her? I've lost it. I can't I've been looking all day. And I said, okay, well, take me inside where you last saw it, or take me, take me where you think it should be. Right? And she's what I've searched. She takes me to her bedroom. And she'll have searched all over every place. And she's standing right there next to her bed. I'm standing in the doorway. And I say inwardly to Michael, Michael, please show me the ring. And my head literally turns. Of its own accord. And my eyes land on the ring. It's like 3 feet from her where she's standing in that very moment, laying in the middle of the pillow where she lays her head on that bed. Wow. I'm like 14 feet away. And Michael goes, mm, with my head and lands right on that ring. And she's standing there and she can't see it. Did I materialize that ring? Did Michael materialize that ring? I mean, did she just suddenly become able to see it? I don't know how these things happen, but I can tell you I have seen things that I knew where they were supposed to be disappear from where they were supposed to be. And I have said to Michael, please give it back. And I looked again, there it was. Okay, he's given me an experience over and over again that this venue is not what it appears to be. And things can come and go from it. Okay, I had a dog I lost for 4 days. 4 days I looked for this dog in June. I found her 4 days she had been locked in my van in June.

Oh, wow.

In Florida. Wow. And she was fine.

Wow.

Okay, I found her after days of looking for her and hearing her barking and thinking I was losing my mind. I came from— because I'm hearing her, I'm thinking, I'm so tortured by what's happened to Gracie, right? And I came in to undress, having been 30 miles away, leaving flyers with the, you know, the people at the agricultural stations, etc. I, you know, came in from that, and I'm undressing, and I think I hear Gracie barking again. It's raining. Her son, Atman, is in the back porch. It's because it's raining, storming hard. I think I hear barking again. I start to weep because I think, okay, this is driving me crazy. So much guilt over this dog and where she's gone, right? And Atman barks. Atman. And I hear in his bark, no, it's real. That's really Gracie. She really is nearby. You're not imagining that. And I go out onto the front porch and I say, Michael, Show her to me. And my head goes, me, onto the van. And I go, oh my God, 4 days in June and she was fine. And she hadn't done anything untoward in the van. Yeah, that's a miracle, you know. So there are things that you think can't happen. The dog cannot survive being locked in a van with the windows closed for 4 4 days in June, right, with no water and no food. Right. And she did.

Yeah, it's— you're right. It's one of those things that, that's like, you can't explain it, you know, other than maybe she, she wasn't there for 4 days. And when you, you manifested her back, because again, I'm reading everybody's superposition, right? You talked earlier about how everything exists in potential until it's observed.

Exactly. I am such a fan of Schrödinger. Recently, my sister again had misplaced this ring. Hmm. This was my dad's ring. And so is this. Okay. She had misplaced this ring and an earlier version of it that had been dad's. She thought someone had stolen it. She looked everywhere, everywhere, everywhere for these rings. There are more rings missing too. She said to me, I've looked everywhere. There's only one place more I can think it could be. It might be in the strongbox located dot dot dot, fill in wherever. I put it there because no one will think to look there. It could be, but I haven't looked there yet because it's such an unlikely place for me to put it. Because I would put it in my ring collection in my jewelry box so I could get to it to wear it. Okay, why would I put this ring that I want to wear in such a difficult place to get to? And I said, now, okay, look, She said, I don't think it's there. I said, so don't go look now, because you just said, I don't think it's there. So what I want you to say is, and I want to hear it, it might be there. It might be there. Yeah, say it. She said, it might be there. I said, you know what, I think it is there. What do you think? She said, I think it is there. It's there, isn't it? It's Schrödinger's strongbox. That ring exists in that strongbox. Until you say it doesn't or go in there and observe it to not be there. So say it is there and look again in a couple of weeks. Yeah. Guess where it was?

It was in the strong box.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, you know, again, that I'm saying you go back a couple hundred years and they were, they were really onto a lot, you know, Schrödinger, Einstein, Bohr, Heisenberg, all those people that said that the universe is not the way we expect it to be, that it is— it's, it doesn't exist until it's observed, and that it's actually the observation that creates the, the event, the stuff that's around us. And in which case, if it is all consciousness, then it's not as set in stone as we will— we, we think it is.

Um, and the label is the observation.

Right, right.

Label is the observation. That's why when you, when you crown the event with your label as the godling that you are, you have made it appear to be set in stone, right? You put it in that timeline.

Yeah, well, let's talk about timelines also, because I heard you say something that was very close to— and maybe you were saying this because there's another concept I've been coming across— is that we can change the past through our, through our observation. You talked about, you know, look, looking at this event and kind of redeeming it, or in a way almost even changing it.

Yeah, you reassign the significance. You just decide it meant something different than what you originally called it. But it has to obviously be something that resonates with you and which redeems the event for you so that you see a boon in it that's sufficient. Okay, like For me, the, the boon sufficient to redeem Alfred's error is that I found Michael. Okay, the boon sufficient to redeem my daddy spanking my butt. Well, there are two. One is I learned I was not my body. And eventually, it changed Dad. You know, you can't, you can't take an innocent person or child, and have compassion in your heart at all, to be lucid at all at any level, and, and torment that person over and over again, and then continue to love you and continue to extend forgiveness over and over again, without it eventually being like hot coals on your head, right? You have to change. You have to do something to get a grip on yourself. And for Dad, his past trauma had been like taking over his mind space and his behaviors so that he spanked me and said things that were inappropriate to me. And at the age of just a few years before he died, and I hadn't seen him in a couple of years, he looked at me and he said, I can't believe I beat your butt all those years trying to make you do what you would have gladly done for me for the sake of love alone. Had I just asked. I was trying to make you do things to be obedient to me. You wanted— the last time he spanked me, I asked him, I was like 10 and a half, 11. I looked up at him and as he, as he was hitting me, and I said, how will you ever know I'm doing what I'm doing? Because I love you and want to please you. If you think I'm doing it because I'm scared of you? How will you ever know? How can I show you that when I'm good, I'm doing it because I love you?

Wow.

He was dumbstruck. He was— it just like stopped him. He dropped the switch. He dropped to his knees. He hugged me. I mean, I'm just a little thing, you know. I've always been short. I was little, even 11. He hugged me, and I could tell he was fighting back tears. And he said to me, cracking voice, give me back my pocket knife, honey. He'd given me his pocket knife to cut the switch he used to spank me. You're never going to need it again. Wow.

That's powerful in so many ways. And you learned through that, you learned compassion for your father. You somehow saw through the pain that he was inflicting on you. And you saw the pain that he was going through. And you recognize that But as you were saying that, it reminded me so much of so many people's image of God, that God wants to bend us to his will by, by beating us, by, and, and making us submit. And you said something very powerful there. How would God ever know we loved him if we only obeyed him out of— because we feared him?

That's right. And God doesn't want to beat us into submission. God wants us to come to him out of love. Yeah, God wants us to come up to him out of love and to come to our brothers and sisters in love to try and relieve them from their suffering. And living in fear of God is absolutely— I see somebody say, I'm a God-fearing person, I think, oh well, you're not. We're not for each other because I'm going to be trying to tell you God is no one to fear. He's no one to fear. There's absolutely nothing to fear There's nothing to fear, except your own labeling, your own unconscious labeling, your rash utterances.

As we're— I want to wrap up here pretty soon. But I do want to talk to you about a concept we started talking about a little bit before we started recording. And that's the idea of people— why do certain— why do people come into the world? Where do you see the world heading now? What's your view of the state of the world and where we're going?

You know, if you look at any toxic behavior pattern that is making you more and more unhealthy and more and more uncomfortable, eventually you come to a crisis, okay, where you have to either wake up from the toxic behavior pattern. When I say wake up, I mean observe yourself consciously, observe that you have been unconsciously doing the same thing over and over again. Okay. I see the world coming either to a place of crescendo of toxicity. It's all hypothetically possible. Okay, if enough people can be awakened, and that's kind of why I've come out of the closet as a mystic now, if enough people can accept the message that they are responsible for the thinking that is creating their experience, and take charge over their minds, supervise their minds, observe their minds and their emotions being created by their self-talk until the chooser is awakened by all that observing where they just say, why should I? Why should I suffer? Why should I? Okay, looks like something really terrible has happened. Will suffering make it better? If enough people can come to that and say, you know what, I think I've cried enough. I think I've cried enough. I think now I'm going to live in tribute to love by being heroic in what I do, by loving heroically. Okay, if enough people can come to that, then the world has a chance of not coming to a negative crescendo. It can just sort of even out, undo the toxicity lessen the fear of the people who are right now, like in the United States, we have such a divisiveness. And I've talked to a lot of people on the other side. I used to be in that camp, in that party. Now I'm not particularly either. But they're all in fear. That's why the news media has discovered that frightened, angry people check the news more so they can sell more ad space. Okay, so they couch everything in the most alarming terms to get people to keep coming back. This is toxic. This is not helpful. This is not in concert with the will that is holy, although it serves to wake some people up. So if we can soothe each other's fears and show one another, like the people on the other side who think we want to kill them all off or whatever, crazy thing somebody has planted in their head to grow there to fester. All right. We can show them love, just like I continued to show Dad love. Okay, eventually the hot coals poured on the forehead of the person who's, who's being unkind, and we continue to love them. They have to see it. Eventually, they have to see that they're creating their own fears. That their fears are not founded in an objectifiable reality. But you—

yeah, because you mentioned earlier, I think you said— I think we were recording, you talked about people with NDEs coming back to help wake up the rest of us. What are your thoughts about other people that— who haven't experienced NDEs? Do you think there are people that are here for this time?

Say again, what's the last question?

Do you think there are people that are here for this time that try to help us through I hear a lot of people say we're at a crisis point and there are people that are coming in deliberately because of this time.

I think— I'm just guessing now as a scientist, I, you know, I can only tell you what I think. My inclination, my feelings. I think that the people who can help with this time and who came here to help with this time have already been here a long while. And that the new people coming in are hopefully going to enjoy the fruits of our— the older people's influence, make things better for them. Okay, because it's like, I have nieces and nephews and no children of my own. Alfred wrecked that for me. But I am motivated to help improve things for my nieces and nephews, and I'm motivated to help improve things for future generations. I'm a biologist by training, interdisciplinary natural sciences with an emphasis on marine systems ecology. I can— I know what's happening because of climate change. And I know it's real, and I know it at a level of physics and chemistry of the ocean and how it's going to change because of the change in temperature, what it's gonna do to the physics, what it's gonna do to the chemistry, and what that's gonna do to the life forms living in the ocean and how that is then gonna redound out into the rest of the environment and affect the rest of the world. So all of that matters to me at a very intricate level of behavior. I prefer to believe that we can, because all things are hypothetical. And being a fan of Schrödinger, I prefer to believe that we can actually, with enough love, with enough conscious awareness being channeled into it, that we can summon an outcome that will be beneficial to all, like people freak out about the idea about volcanoes erupting and stuff. But if it's not— if it's a volcanic eruption, for instance, of the right magnitude in the right place, it can actually lower global temperature. And not to— I know it can do it really dramatically, or you can do it just enough, just enough to give us more time to get our act together so that rising sea levels don't start inundating coastal homes. But as to that, even that would be good in a way, because the people who live on the coast— everything has its redemption— are the people with the money and the connections to say, hey, guess what, climate change is real, my house is underwater, maybe we should do something about this. Yeah, exactly. Okay, they're the ones who have the connections and the money.

So that's a good point. There's a lot of prime real estate disappearing, right?

They're the ones who will make a difference. Parents, uh, when it starts impacting their pocketbooks, right? All right. So, um, you know, nobody wants to see anybody suffer, but if that suffering actually leads to a good outcome, the suffering is redeemed by the good outcome.

Yeah, that, that, and that's, that's where we're coming back to, you know. And I think that, um, I love your, I love your story. I love the way you tell it. And, and, and, you know, I try to use analogies to help people understand about, you know, like suffering, and they're like, well, nothing would be worth this. And I'm like, Well, you think we take our child to the doctor to get a shot, and the child screams bloody murder because they don't like the fact they got a shot. But we give them the shot to protect them from a virus. And sometimes things happen to us that we don't like, but it's for our own benefit down the road. And we don't get to see it till, you know, you and I are both in our 60s. And when you're in our 60s, it's easier to start to see these things because we've got it's played out over a longer time. So the terrible thing that happened to me when I was 12 doesn't seem so terrible now, because I can see how it's been redeemed, as you, as you put it.

Yeah, well, you asked about, you asked about going backwards in time and reassigning significances. I don't know that you can't actually change the timeline that you experience as having been yours. For many years, I lived in the pervasive experience of my terrible childhood. Oh, okay. Until, until the prank was revealed at age 20.

Okay.

And in laughter, I realized I was the one who had assigned all the significances that made it such a terrible thing.

Yeah. Well, you get back to your point of lucidity. You know, and it's just one of my favorite songs ever is called Silent Lucidity by a group called Queensryche. And they talk about— it even starts with, you know, I woke to the thought of, or the dream of someone dying, someone, someone leaving the dream. That was a line, someone leaving the dream. And this world that we live in, when you, when you can wake up in the dream, and understand that one day you're going to wake up for real,. But when you can wake up in the dream, it changes your view on everything.

It does. And it changes what you can do within the venue. It changes the way the venue responds to you. Yeah. It changes, it changes the way you experience anything that happens to you. You're experiencing it as the consciousness in which it unfolds and you're deciding what it means. You decide what it shall mean to you. What shall I teach myself from this? That's what I say. What shall I let this teach me? Okay. And it's such a blessed place to be, you know, it's, it's such a— until we're, until we're back again with, in the eternal with everyone that we love and reunited, and that does happen. Okay. And hopefully we all awaken to the point to where we can come in and out of all sorts of other venues, because there are many, many worlds to be visited. And never forget our divine identity. Never come to fall asleep again in a dream of some venue, of some world where we're a character who can suffer loss and die. We wake up. That's getting our wings. Because that's what the wings are symbolic of— the ability to come and go without losing your lucidity. You're mobile. That's what I have become, like a piece of the cog, a cog in the machine that woke up and knew itself as the machine and then floated off into the cosmos laughing, having a good time. Yeah, you know, just a freewheeling cog here, having a grand time.

Well, that's a—

go ahead.

That's a great way to wrap up. What I'd like for you to do, though, is tell people where they can find out more about you. I know you've got a couple or several books. So talk about your books and, and what they are about.

Okay, well, the first book is called The Fiddler's Laughing Bride. I assume we can post— you can post for me a link.

Sure, absolutely.

The Fiddler's Laughing Bride is a memoir, and this is about my relationship with Michael and how I came to these physical— for their actual recounting of the events through my life and how they impacted what I learned from them. How Michael brought me to this place of lucidity. Okay, up to this current moment. That intertwines because in with the fiction series in 1995, Michael had said to me, don't, don't marry your first spouse, first spouse, Bob, nice guy, but he had said, don't marry him. He's not really for you. He'll be nice, but 1995, I told Michael, leave me be. 1995, 6 years into the marriage, Michael returned. He had been there all along. He told me when bad things were about to happen, warned me of imminent danger regularly, but he had kept quiet for those 6 years. And he came back and he started dictating these books into my head, literally a stream of words. He lit me up, woke me up with Kundalini awakening at the— in 1995, I think I was 36, something like that. And said, go sit in front of the word processor. I have a story to tell you. I promise it'll be a great adventure. And this series of fiction books began to pour out of my psyche. Like another of your guests said, they just sort of drop into your headspace, and there they are. And so that world, that fictional world, as we call it fictional, which is since all dreams are equally real and equally unreal, they're just dreams. The truth is one and anything else is a dream. And all mindspace is accessible to everybody. There's no such thing as fictional worlds. They're all equally fictional. Okay, so that means it's irrelevant. I mean, calling them fictional is silly. Once you've imagined the thing, and even the Christ told us, if you imagine it, you might as well go and do it in physicality because you're creating it as a reality at some level, putting your mind and your attention on it, ruminating on it, you create it. Well, this world, this fictional series basically hijacked my life. And it felt to me really weird because I was getting ready to go into graduate school for marine biology. And all of a sudden I'm going, I'm writing. Why am I writing? I'm not a writer. I think Michael was like, write, it'll sell at the appropriate time. Well, so my experience of this is it hijacked my life. So that series, that fiction series intertwines with my life by so drastically affecting my life. Okay. And I found in the process of writing it that a lot of times I couldn't make characters do things I wanted them to do to take the story in the direction I thought it should go. They just wouldn't. I— and I'm the one with my fingers on the keyboard. How does that happen? So I began to wonder about the nature of what was actually happening. I was like, okay, I hadn't figured out yet that since it's all dreams, all dreams are equally real, all dreams are equally unreal. So they all— they all count, right? Anyway, so that series of books Now I've realized that on some level I've created those worlds. I've created those characters and I'm responsible for them and I have to help evolve them. And so I have begun to interact with those worlds in that series in later books. There's 6 of them in the series. 2 of them are up. They're called The Vampire Grail Affairs. And, uh, the, uh, the Fiddler's Laughing Bride, the memoir. Those three are all available at crackedpotpublications.com.

Okay.

Um, yeah, where my motto is leaking light into a world of shadows. Okay. Oh, may we all be cracked pots leaking light. I love that. Um, yeah, so, um, yeah, they can find that there. And I think that they'll They'll, they'll find if they read these books, they are books teaching all the fiction, teaching all the same principles that Michael has taught me, but through a very sexy story of vampires and forgiveness and redemption and transformation that would attract a certain set of readers that would never read a spiritual memoir. Yeah, so the two of them get— the Fiddler's Laughing Bride and the Vampire Grail Affairs reach a much bigger audience than I could with the same concepts just in the memoir. So those are available, and I'm gonna give you a special coupon for your subscribers, coupon code they can enter to get 20% off. Okay, on the books.

Yeah.

And, um, yeah, sounds great. Yeah.

And I assume people can email you through your website?

No, they can't email me directly through my website. Um, but if you could post links to my Facebook, can you do that so that they can— yeah, they can reach me through Facebook. And then I'm happy to give also my email address. Um, which is michaelinemoor@gmail.com. And I know you'll post it on the video so that people can find it. Yeah, Michael Moore, Gmail, because my name is spelled strangely, but you'll see it written out there. Um, and what else?

That's it, that's it. So I, I really— I'm glad we got to do this. Uh, we've— as we've been friends on Facebook for a while, it's first time we've talked, uh, face to face. Uh, Really appreciate your time, me being here today.

Well, I really hope we get to talk again, Brian, because I already love you.

Yeah, there's— well, we have a lot more to talk about, so I'm sure we'll do this again.

Okay.

All right, enjoy the rest of your day.

Thank you, Brian. You too.

Bye. Hi there, I'm really excited to tell you about my latest ebook. It's 4 lessons that you can learn from the near-death experience without going through all the trouble of dying to learn them. I've been studying NDEs for several years now, I am completely convinced that not only are they 100% real, but that there's some very universal wisdom that we can get from the near-death experience. And I've distilled that down in this book into 4 short lessons. And I've also given you all the reasons why I believe that NDEs are absolutely real. So go to www.grieftogrowth.com/NDElessons to pick it up for free. www.grieftogrowth.com/NDElessons. I hope you enjoy it.