Bridging to The Beyond- An Encounter with Medium Debra Martin

You know you need something, you're just not sure what. You've been listening, you're doing the work, but there's still this feeling that you're circling the same place, like you're waiting for the thing that finally moves you. Now maybe you've thought about working with me one-on-one. Maybe something's held you back, the timing, the money, or you're just not sure you're ready yet. I get that. And I want you to know there's still a place for you. I built a resource for exactly this moment, guided meditations for when the waves hit and you just need to breathe. Workbooks to help you get out of your head and onto the page, ebooks on what near-death experiences tell us about the people we've lost, and whether they're really gone, a full course for widows and widowers who are ready to find their way back to living, and a full course for the evidence of the afterlife. And all of it is available for pay what you want. Nobody gets turned away because of money. I think these resources are valuable, but I don't want to hold them back because you don't have the money to pay for them. You don't have to wait until you're ready for coaching. The next step might be a lot smaller than you think. To find out, go to grief2growth.com/store. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/store. And check out the resources I've made for you. Hey everybody, this is Brian D Smith back with another episode of Grief 2 Growth. And today I've got with me Debra Martin. She's a world-renowned healer. She's an International Research Lab Certified Medium. With the Windbridge Research Center. And she's also the author of 6 books. Her skills have been meticulously documented by the scientific community, most notably Dr. Gary Schwartz and Dr. Julie Beischel. She's a spiritual coach, she's a survivor of 3 near-death experiences. And she's also a cancer survivor. And after her third NDE, she became a healer. And she developed a healing technique that's not being done anywhere else in the world, where she combines her mediumship and her healing abilities to embrace others with God's love and healing. She's been featured in national media, including two A&E documentaries. She's been on radio networks such as Coast to Coast with George Noory and Hay House Radio. Her episode titled Proof of Miracles on Beyond Belief with George Noory aired on the Gaia Network in December of 2022 with great success. She's recently filmed another episode that will be released soon. And her message is that miracles exist, and there's always hope. And that nothing is too big or too small to heal. So with that, I want to welcome Debra to Grief 2 Growth.

I'm so grateful to be here. Thank you so much.

Yeah, I'm really excited to have you here too. As we were saying before we started recording, I've known you for a while, known of you for a while. And I really want— I'm excited about getting you on the program to talk about you because you've had an incredible story and incredible talent. So let's start with your NDEs. You've had 3 NDEs. So tell me about that.

You know, you look back at your NDEs and you want to know, well, what did each one of them teach you? What was the opportunity that, that was there for you? Because when you go through it, you don't look at it as an opportunity. You look at it like, oh my gosh, what did I just go through? So my first NDE was where I was out the same night that Princess Diana had her accident, her car accident. And I was out with a group of friends and it was time, you know, we all watched it on the screen. We all felt that heaviness. I was a single mom of 3 children. Princess Diana, just, you know, the children lost her. And I just had this— everybody had that strong connection, right?

Yeah.

So getting into the car that night was a sports car. I wasn't the driver. I was going to be sitting in the back seat. I was like, I'm not supposed to get in this car. I didn't know why I had that feeling. And my friends are like, it's just because you watched the show. And I'm like, no, no, there's there's a strong feeling I'm not supposed to get in this car. Well, I did, and we were, um, on the freeway in the slow lane. It was dark, and I immediately knew something was going to hit us. It was like, like a, a vision that came across my mind. It's like, this is going to happen. And I said, not now, not yet, not now. I'm a single mom of 3. Like, no, not now. At that same moment when I said not now, A truck from the fast line lane, big truck without windows, came and sideswiped us. He flipped off the freeway 3 times and we took out 40 feet of guardrail and ended up facing traffic. At that moment, I'm stuck in this little pocket in the backseat of the car. We can't get out. We're crushed. And divine intervention came that day. I didn't know it at the time. It was a gentleman that appeared, opened the door effortlessly, carried each one of us to the embankment. And I remember him saying, you're going to be okay. And I said, no, no, no. I was wearing this one ring. It was a metal ring, very, very strong. And I said, I can't get this off. My finger's bleeding and it hurts. Can you help me? He took the ring and he put it in his mouth. I have his teeth marks to this day. And It's a bloody finger now. We wouldn't do that, right? Putting it in his mouth, and he was able to release it. He kissed me on the forehead, went to the left, and said, um, you're going to be fine. I'll see you again. Well, I looked to the right because all the ambulances— we had 5 ambulances, we had fire trucks, everybody coming. I looked to the left and he was gone. No one's ever seen him. That moment, I didn't know what that was, what, you know, I was like, okay, what just happened? And that kind of led me on my quest of the afterlife kind of this, you know, going to conferences, trying to see and get validation out of it. They kind of opened my door again. As a child, I could see spirit, but I was always afraid. I closed that off. And I think this was the first door that was starting to open that again. So then my second NDE, I was once again in a car, and I was— came to a stop, kind of like a left turn embankment. You're going to turn into a neighborhood. And you're waiting for the traffic to clear so you can cross the street. Just sitting there, no premonition this time. And remember, I didn't even know what a premonition was before, but now I did. This didn't— was not given to me. I was just all of a sudden somewhere else, looking down at what was going to happen to me. So I had an out-of-body experience. I'm standing there looking down, going, ooh, this is not good. And I remember this strong being behind me. Never, never looked back, but I felt like I knew this being. And it said, are you ready? At that moment, I was like, no, my 3 kids need me, but I'm not gonna survive that. I saw a big truck carrying tractor equipment behind it that was going to come and crush me.

Mm-hmm.

In a split second, I was now once again in the back seat of the, of the little part of the seat in the back seat of my car. My, my seat, the driver's seat, broke. I'm there with a mouthful of glass. My 4-door Honda is now crushed, all windows, everything were broken. Everything that was in the car was in the street. So I have a police officer and another, another gentleman that come to my window. 'Are you okay? Are you okay?' We tried to get this man off the road. He was in a diabetic seizure. He hit me at 65 miles an hour. I was what stopped him. And then the other gentleman, he says, 'Are you okay?' And he goes, 'No, I don't know what just happened. I should have crushed her, but something took my steering wheel, put me into oncoming traffic so I didn't hit her.' when I heard him say that, those words, that's when I was like, whoa, wait a minute, I saw that. That now led me to, okay, where was I? I heard Spirit. I know there's another dimension. I know somebody talked to me. I know it's given a choice. I know I was out of body without feeling any pain before impact. So there's a lot of things I was learning, but now I'm hearing spirit and I'm hearing very clear. So that's opened the door for me to get tested with Dr. Gary Schwartz and Dr. Julie Beischel. So that was kind of the blessing out of that one, but it, it didn't seem it at the time. So my third NDE, that one was also out of body. But this time I was sick and dying. The doctors at Mayo Clinic couldn't find out anything wrong with me. I was down to 90 pounds. They're— the doctors were saying, well, are you anorexic? I'm like, no, if I eat, I'm in extreme pain. I would lay in my bed in a fetal position in so much pain. If I would just take a sip of water, I'd be like in labor for 24 hours. Hmm. And so I lost all, um, ability to have bowel movements. So my dignity was starting to be stripped away. It was teaching me how people in there, when it's time to pass, it's not that they don't care about their loved ones here, but they know it's time for them. And they know that it's okay. So I can remember begging God, just take me, just take me. I'm, I'm in a lot of pain. I'm not serving, I'm not, I'm not serving anyone good in my family. They're just all worried about me. So I remember spiritual surgeons coming into my room, and because I was a medium now and doing readings, that didn't scare me seeing them. And I remember them, you know, they wore the whole surgical outfits. I remember them cutting open my abdomen, and it was extremely painful. And I said, I was screaming in pain going, okay, I have to go through this, but how am I going to go through this? How am I going to go through what, what they're doing? I could see pus coming out. It was like they were extracting it through a thin straw, so it was like, uh, pulling. So I decided I'm going to close my eyes. I'm just going to remove my mind with what's happening. And when I did, I transcended out of my body. At that moment, I felt like, wow, this is great! I thought I was just meditating. I'm floating, I'm going to another space. Well, now I'm seeing white, and it's getting clearer and clearer and clearer. And now I'm standing in this white light, and I'm just kind of looking around like, I'm the only one here. Now what? Where am I? And I can remember this being coming towards me, a bright light. Very clear. You could see through. And I remember the arms coming like this and started holding me. And now I'm seeing my body being held. So now I'm standing there. What I now look at, look back at, is my soul is watching. And I remember my body, my hair hanging down. I'm like, ooh, I'm really sick. I'm being carried. So I call this my God was there to carry me. And he placed me, I followed him, he placed me on a beam of light, he placed me on this beam of light, there was also a coffin next to it, it was a beautiful glass coffin and I thought, oh, am I going to get a choice? Can I at least sit in that glass coffin? It looks really, really pretty and I'm like, I don't think that's a good idea, Deborah, let's just carry on. So God led me to this space, he said, follow me, and we went into what looked like a white dome, I said, well, why do we have to go in there? It's interesting, I'm questioning everything as I go along. It's like, because what I'm going to share with you, only you can hear, no one else in the universe. So it's like I was sitting down at a table and God stands behind me looking over, and I see a lifespan contract, and it's my contract. And he's like, you were on borrowed time, but we can reverse this. You can go back. And I'm like, well, I don't want to go back. I'm happy. I'm filled with love. I'm pain-free. Why would I want to go back? It's like, well, you need to go back. And I said, well, can I first see my parents? No, Deborah, if you see your parents, you'll never go back. So I read the contract and there was a lot of words. One was healthy and one was voice. Health didn't have the L-Y there, and I'm like, well, health means nothing with the— unless it says healthy. So I'm kind of bartering, like I needed to say directly what I— if I'm gonna go back, I wanna be healthy. So then I saw voice. Well, I was like, oh, that's easy. I'm just using my mediumship. That's my voice. Well, I was downloaded with much more than that. I was downloaded with the gift of healing. And I was told I would have a new mission and not to forget this date, 1/21/12. All numbers are reversible, and so is this here today. But God also signed that contract. So I remember him saying, now you need to go back. So when I went back, I can remember going back into my body, almost like you're, you're going like an air mattress, you know, like it fills back up. But I remember almost like you're being held out underwater and you go, oh, like that. I'm like, oh, I just took my first breath. Hmm, am I the same person? What just happened? You know, and you're, you're, you're now, you're kind of questioning what is, what was that real? Was that just a vision? What, what, what really happened? So I started writing it all because I didn't want to forget it. I won't forget it because it was deep. It hit deeply into the core of who I am. And I started, um, doing healings.. And I started seeing miracles. Now, I was— it took time for me to heal. It wasn't like I just came back and I was healed right away, which showed me that healing can be a process. And I had to stand in this knowing that I would be healthy and that why did I not ever find out what was wrong with me? Why did I not know the title? Why couldn't doctors find this out? And this is important for the viewers to know because a lot of people want to know I want the diagnosis so I can fix it. What happens is I was told when I went into prayer, we didn't want you to be labeled with it. Once you receive a diagnosis, all of a sudden you own it and it becomes part of you. It was me, it was a part of me. Without that attachment, it's so much easier just to heal because we don't just say, oh, that I had that, or I still have that, or it could come back. So it was a powerful moment, but I started doing healing and I learned this. This kind of makes me weep every time. I use my mediumship in my healing, right? And so I'll see loved ones come in the room. I'll see spiritual surgeons come in the room. I'll see God come into the room. I'll see angels come into the room. I'll voice words from loved ones that are there for their love. You know, connecting with the person that's healing. But what's most importantly is Spirit uses my voice. I will know things that there's no way I would know about you. I won't know anything about you, and it might come— it might be something that you were dealing with at the age of 7 that you totally forgot and you pushed deep down. God brings that forth, and you're like, I, I I forgot about that. And so it's so profound that they could not be my words. Kind of like when you do your mediumship, right? You're allowing the words to come through. They mean nothing to you, and then you deliver them and they mean so, so much more. But this goes on such a deep level because now we're healing physically, our body, we're healing emotionally, and we're doing spiritually. And there'll be times where we go on a spiritual journey where they actually feel like they're having an out-of-body experience, or they're just having the vision give to them for them to visualize in their mind. But I've taken people on spiritual journeys now to have their own connection. People have felt the embrace of their loved one. People have smelt them. They felt their body, like, wrap their arms around them. They've heard words from them. They're having the one-on-one connection, and I get to witness it and speak it. And it's healing. It's beyond healing because it goes deep within, but now you're healing two, two that have lost that connection, right? And, and so the mediumship just goes on a whole nother level now where I allow the voice of spirit to continue to take over in all areas, emotionally, physically, and spiritually. Stay with us. We'll be right back.

You know, one of the hardest things about grief? Most of the people in your life just don't get it. They want you to be further along than you are. They get uncomfortable when you bring it up, so you stop bringing it up. And that's why I started writing. My Substack is where I go deeper. Thoughts I don't always get to on the podcast. Essays on consciousness, on continuing bonds, on what it actually means to carry a loss and still build a life. The stuff that used to keep me up at night written out in a way that I hope meets you in the morning. But here's what I didn't expect when I started it. The community that showed up. People who are doing exactly what you're doing. Listening, learning, trying to find their footing. Readers who comment, who share their own stories, who remind each other that none of us are as alone in this as we feel. And that's what the Substack has become. A place to go deeper with me and to find your people. It's free to subscribe. Find me at grief2growth.com/substack. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/substack. Or just go to Substack and search for Grief to Growth. I hope to see you there. Yeah, speaking of that, you— before we started recording, you mentioned that your mediumship had recently changed. And what, what way has it changed?

Well, so now when I do readings, I do readings with my healing. So it's like, are you dealing with grief or do you have stomach issues or do you have back issues or what else is, is, what are you dealing with? And then have you lost a loved one? Is there somebody that you wanna connect with? Could that be maybe a root cause or do you just wanna connect with that loved one? So this family came. The mother had been to many mediums. All of them have had readings. The children are now older, but the father passed of suicide when they were teens. I think the youngest was 9 at the time. And so she wanted to do a family session with the dad. So I will connect with the dad for about 45 minutes before the session. I will get a bunch of information. Right? I will relay that information before the session, go into the healing. Now we're going to heal individually. That father, we went on a spiritual journey. He lined his entire family up. He spoke directly to each individual verbatim, what they were doing in their life, what he had to say to them, maybe what they were holding on since he was— they were a child since he passed. But when it came time to talk to Mom, Mom comes up front and center. They're talking face to face like this. Kids are all in a row. And he speaks to her and says all these words. I couldn't even repeat them. But she emails back and says, I'm astounded. Every word he spoke was verbatim what he wrote in his suicide letter to me. Hmm. I mean, you can't— when it just flows like that, it's not like me, but they, they all healed. They healed on a physical level. One was suicidal. One of the boys was suicidal, and she didn't know that he was even going to survive. 2 weeks later, he's thriving with work because his father says, I believe in you. I know you have this ability. You're strong, and you know, you're as smart as I am. So allow me to help you. I'm going to work through you. 3 weeks later, he's engaged. And now they're pregnant. Oh, wow. His, his life totally turned. And so it's, it's this, we have a stigma, the society of religion right now. Like, you know, what do you believe? And is one religion better than another religion? And I'm like, if religion works for you, I think that's really great. I think that, um, they're all schools. That's how I look at, they're all schools. But I think right now, it's like a knowingness that we need to connect with. It's a power, it's an infinite love. And I think if we can don't have judgments, don't have expectations, or what we have to do in order to believe, in order to receive, and just be and know that we can connect and have that relationship no matter what. I think that's what it's all about. And I think that's the same when we use our mediumship to help others. It's opening that door of awakening them to know that there's more than just what exists in front of us.

Yeah. I want to talk to you, Debra, about, about mediumship in general. I do. I have some skeptics, let's be kind and call them skeptics, who follow my channel. And I have people that say to me, mediumship is all fake. It's all— they look you up. I've got a guy now telling me just exactly how they do it. You Google the person, you look at their obituary, etc. I know you've been tested by Dr. Gary Schwartz and by Dr. Julie Beischel. So tell me about what that process is like.

So you can look it up on the Windbridge Research Center, windbridge.org, and it's laid out exactly what we went through. So it'll be described more in detail than what I can tell you. But I'll give you a little idea. Okay, so It's quadruple blind experiment. So Julie, Dr. Julie Beischel, will know who you're gonna connect with, right? So she picks someone for you. You're told that it's a male. That's it. Okay. But it doesn't come from Julie. She passes it over to somebody else that gives it to me. So there's no way that this person knows anything about where it's coming from. Right? So we alleviate that. So then now I get, it's a male. So I have to sit down with that male. What does he look like? How old is he? What's his personality? Does he have a message? Who does he have the message for? Um, how did he die? What is his personality? What are his traits? What is he like? All of that. And so it, it gets tricky cuz you're writing it and then you have to submit it. So you have to make sure I received it this way. This is how he showed me. He didn't tell me he liked the color blue. He showed me the color blue. Things like that, right? Mhm. So then that sitter— the sitter is the person with the loved one, right? She's going to get two readings in front of her. One is the actual reading, and one is somebody else's reading. No. Okay, so she now gets these, and that comes from one of somebody else, like not Julie, not this person submits. She has to score it, which one's hers and how many things are correct. And that's how we got scored whether it was real or not real, because there was no one else involved. And then the, the last step is we have a one-on-one with, with the sitter. So it's quite the process. I know that she's, she's tried to go through a lot of testing and eventually she had to stop the testing because people couldn't pass it. So the group that we have now that she, that we are the Windbridge, you know, mediums for her, it's, I'm pretty proud to be, to say that I was a research medium because you're going through the process and you don't know, it's like you're handing over information. You don't know if it's correct or not, but you're trusting it.

Yeah, and thank you for going through that. And I know Gary's process is similar. I've read The Afterlife Experiments many years ago, and I work with Gary now. And I know that both these people are very serious. They understand how to design protocols. I've got lots of friends that are mediums. I know that mediums are good people. There are some people out there who are fraudulent, that's for sure.

Right.

But the things that I've had mediums tell me, the things that people can't— people can't look up. And I know that you've had those experiences as well.

Well, some things will tell about the future. Like they'll tell something like, I'm holding a baby over here. I know that you're gonna feel like, oh, I'm missing out. But oh no, I know this child, I know everything about this child and put a little personality into this child. And then all of a sudden, 2 weeks later, they find out somebody in the family is pregnant. Mm-hmm. You know, and so it's, it's fascinating because us mediums, when we deliver the message, we don't know nothing. We just give it.

Right.

And then when we're finished giving it, we're like, okay, are they gonna validate anything? Are they gonna come back and tell us anything? And that's what tells us like, okay, we were correct. I did a murder. Um, I don't know if you know that I did a, a murder that went international. That— yeah, so it went in the Psychic News magazine. It was the COVID And so what happened was, is the news wanted to come in and, and do a, a live recording, and they wanted to bring the person in so I would know nothing about them. So that person wanted to connect with her deceased aunt, and so she came, and she came with her nephew and the mother, the sister of the person that was deceased. And as we were sitting there, she starts telling her, like, you had such a difficult morning. You just got your bangs cut. You're so worried about today. You were just so fussy about, like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna look good for TV. And she's like, yeah, I did do that. So she kind of set the tone where she knew, like, okay, I know I'm connecting with her aunt. Once I got that, all of a sudden Kid you not, it was like this huge movie just went right across my face. And I went, I had to take a deep breath and I go, oh my gosh, I got to deliver some news that's going to be really, really hard to say. So I had to say it delicately and say, okay, I want you to know she's okay, but I don't know if you're aware, but your aunt was murdered. And so she showed how she was murdered. Why she was murdered, who murdered her, descriptions, names, that she's in a photo with him wearing a blue shirt, that it was for the property, to sign over her property to these two, two men, but she didn't want to, so they strangled her and they took over the property. So that woman knew that this was her aunt, went back to Peru, had the body exhumed because she was told she died of stomach cancer and a heart attack. And the coroner said this is impossible, that this, this is a body that's been in the grave for 3 months. All her organs were fresh. They were able to rerule and say she didn't have stomach cancer, she didn't die of a heart attack, she died of asphyxiation. Wow. So then they handed over to the investigators and they were able to see the signatures were forged on her property. And the name that I gave, they were able to find him. And he admitted to the crime and was serving 30 years in prison. I knew nothing. She knew nothing. I couldn't read her mind. Where did that information come from?

Right. And I know, I know mediums, and it's interesting, the police will contact mediums that I know, and they don't, they don't publicize this, but they do contact mediums. And sometimes they find, they find people alive, they find people not alive. I was in a situation once, I shouldn't say the names probably, but I was at the Helping Parents Heal conference. And there are a couple of mediums doing a demo and someone asked about their loved one. And I watched both mediums independently getting information. About this person that was missing and, and knew where they kind of like what location they were in, what the environment was like. It was, it's fascinating.

It is fascinating. I've done a couple of those. In fact, I, I don't like watching the news because it'll be like, I know where she's at. So I remember reaching out to the police in, um, San Diego. This girl went missing and I told him where she was. He goes, And I told her that she had a missing shoe and that was found. And like, that— we haven't put that in public yet. How did you know that? I said, I'm just giving you the information. No, then they think you're connected to it.

Right? Right. That can be—

you have to be careful with that. So, but what I always say is spirit has a voice, so people better be careful. Right? They do.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting because I wonder sometimes as we progress and start to realize that this is true if, you know, people can testify at their own murder trials. Once we start to realize that mediums really have a connection.

They have been, I think, in, in another country, they use them in court. Yeah, they do. Because if the evidence is so— if the medium got so much evidence, why not? Look at what happened here in Peru. They had said, would I, would I come to Peru? And because they were going to do a movie, I guess they're doing a movie on it. I said, I'll send my book with with the story of it, but I'm not coming to Peru. Yeah.

So tell me about your, your healing sessions, because I know they're different than people might have experienced before. What is, what are your healing sessions like?

Okay, so if somebody contacts me for a healing, I do group healings and I do private healings. What's nice about the group is I get, I do people all over the world and we all gather as one, right? And then I see. How do you want to say, when more than one people gather, that energy just raises. And we just— it's remarkable to hear and to witness how many people will come with, I got a kidney issue, I got a knee issue. I'm like, okay, this group has formed. So let me just walk you through the process of a healing session. So you'll email me and you might not tell me anything. I don't need to know anything. I just need a healing. I'm struggling. Okay, so all I need is your picture, and I want a full body picture. Some people like to tell me what's going on because they like me to put that in my, my prayers prior. So instead of saying, um, this is John and he has heart issues, I'll say, here's, here's John and thank you for healing his heart issues, kind of going in with that positivity. So then, because I've seen spiritual surgeons before, I will see that once I take their picture in my healing room and I let it sit there for hours, when I come back, I can see the spiritual surgeons have set up the room. And then I go into prayer, and then, then I go into the session. When I go into the session, I will lay down on a healing table. I place your picture on my abdomen or I can become your proxy. At that moment, I'm now connected and I can feel the energy. Sometimes I can see the energy in the room, but my stomach will start going up and down. And what happens is a beam of light, God's beam of light, will come and attach to the solar plexus. And now my stomach's breathing and I'm connecting to that oneness, that same frequency and energy, and that's flowing through me. That energy of healing light and love is coming through me, but it's also taking out of the body through that beam into the universe. What will— that that body doesn't need anymore. So we've healed cancer, we've healed emotional mental illness, we've healed everything and anything could be healed, even as simple as a toothache. And so during the healing, I might see spiritual surgeons start working, and when they start working, sometimes I have to feel the pain. I'm like, oh, oh, they're, they're in the gallbladder, or they're in, you know, they're in the groin, I'll feel it. But when I feel it, people feel so bad because they hear me because this isn't live. This is all— you're in your sacred space. I'm in my sacred space. I'm recording it and you will get the recording after. And so when they hear it, they're like, I'm so sorry you went through so much pain for me. And I said, no, no, that's a gift. Because if I feel it, I know that they're actually working there. But you have to have such a trust what you're saying because I'm saying, you know, you have kidney issues and you're wearing a bag on your left side. I know nothing, and I'm going to send that across the world and they're going to go, how'd you know I had a kidney bag, right? How'd you know that I had these issues? And it's not me, it's the voice coming through me. So I, I, I give the credit all to What I say is God. People say divine source, absolute oneness. All to me, it means, means love. And so we're putting love into action and we're healing. And so if we go on a spiritual journey to, to God has words for you, you're going to meet a loved one there. I've had children come meet their parents there. When they, when you do, it's like, okay, The vision comes to me as if that same movie, I'm seeing it in my mind and I'm explaining, okay, here we go, this is what we're going to do. And I walk you through the process and I'm there to witness and see it all. And it's just, it's beautiful. It's beyond beautiful. I've been able to go to spaces that are, that you don't see here on Earth. These colors are vibrant and, and the amount of peace and love. And every time I feel God enter the room, I will weep. Uncontrollably. You can't even— I can't even help it. It's like, sorry, you know, crying. But it was— it's just beautiful because, you know, they're being held in, in this God's love and, and light and healing. So then when this session is all over, we just kind of all just breathe, you know, like come back into your body and we give gratitude for what took place. And then I have to— I only do one healing session a day because it takes a lot of energy. But I also want it to be that person's day, so they will continue to heal for 24 hours. I've had people on their end say, I could feel exactly what you were feeling at the same time. I had one person that had bile duct cancer, and I felt like I was going to throw up. I'm like, I'm going to throw up bile. I'm going to throw up bile. I'm throwing up bile. She was throwing up bile at the same time.

Wow.

So when she documented, it's like we were feeling the same thing the same time. I've connected where I'm like, oh, your, your daughter's here. I see her. Across the world in the UK, she's now seeing her daughter at the same time I'm saying that, right? So it's just like, it's miraculous. You can't make this stuff up. And so you receive this feedback, and it's hard to even put into words because it's just so profound. And after every session, I'm just in awe, like, wow, look what I got to witness. Not one's ever the same. I was like, What am I going to see today? What's going to transpire today? And then when the session's over, I sit in gratitude and I email them that MP4. Some people will listen to it over and over and over, and they say, I'll hear words that I didn't hear the first time, the second time. Um, healing— some people heal instantaneously. They'll heal before they even receive the recording, as the energy's already you know, shift it. Some people it takes time. So healing can be a process too. So you never know. But I always say just stand in faith. It's all right there. Um, I just did a, a Gaia show for a little boy that was healed of leukemia, um, cancer. Wow. He had 2 weeks to live. He's on 7 months right now.

Wow.

Yeah.

So tell me, tell me some more of your, your healing stories that you've had.

Okay, so, oh, there's so many. How can I choose? So there's one woman that she wanted a healing for her mom. Her mom was— had deep, deep grief. She was married for over 52 years and lost her husband. How do I, how do I live in this new reality? I'm sad. How do I live without him? How do I walk forward? So we had the session and the father comes through and I remember I connect beforehand, so I'm getting all this stuff and I'm getting all this stuff about pineapples and palm trees and Maui and like, okay. And so he now takes her on a spiritual journey and says to the daughter too, who booked it, brought her into the session and said, you need to take mom there. I've always wanted to take her. We were gonna go there. You need to make this happen. And so Mom was healed mentally, emotionally, and then physically. The daughter didn't think she could physically go to Maui. About 2 months later, I got pictures from Maui that they went and they saw heart clouds. They, all their, the room numbers were 22. He said, look for the 22s.. And it was just, it, it ended up being like that, that reading, that healing kept giving. And to see that it was so profound that she actually made it happen. Hmm. It was beautiful. I had another one where a mother was in deep, deep sorrow. She lost her little girl and I saw the child come. And embraced the leg. And as she embraced the leg, I could feel the love between the two. And the mother picks her up, looks at the child. The child takes this little necklace and holds it, and I'm seeing it, holds it, says, 'Thank you for wearing this.' And I described it as being a silver heart. And the mother emailed back and said that was meant so much to me because I have her ashes in that silver heart necklace. And so, um, I did one, one healing for a person in Shanghai, China. She had, um, terrible back pain, she had toothaches, and I can remember the back pain being pretty serious. And before she got the MP3, All symptoms were gone. All the way to China. Think about that. So that was really cool. I've had people that are addicted. One person says, can I do a healing for someone that doesn't know? How do you feel about that? Well, to me, it's like saying a prayer. If your intentions are out of love, then this is okay. So the mother was addicted to alcohol. And being abusive. She's not happy now. The whole family is— it's like ruining— it's not their mother anymore, right? So she did a healing for her, and her mother stopped drinking. And she's like, not only did we get our mother back, you healed her from so much pain that was deep within. And It was like God said, you're not going to have the taste or the kwayar for alcohol. When you taste it, it's not going to taste good anymore. And that's what happened. It just switched.

Wow.

So we go to mental illness. I had one. This is a really good story. You'll like this one, Brian D Smith. Okay, so this is where you can't make stuff up because I'm even laughing at this one. So I'm taking this person on a spiritual journey. And I know she's right here and I see this umbrella and I'm like, okay, I feel like Mary Poppins right now. And I'm laughing cuz God can have a sense of humor. It's like, okay, so here we go. Up, up, up like Mary Poppins. And we go and she was struggling from mental illness. She had struggled for 20 years. She's had 3 suicide attempts. She's been in, in and out of mental hospitals for 10 years. And, um, when she received the recording, she said that before she even listened to it, it was like the light switch went on. She could only see dark, and now she was seeing the sun. Now she was seeing like so many beautiful things around her that she didn't see before. She felt like this weight that she'd been carrying was just lifted, and she was like, is this real? Like, why? How am I? I'm feeling it. I'm actually feeling emotions again. Well, then she listened to it, and I now get the email. Well, Deborah, you know the Mary Poppins thing? I'm like, mm-hmm. She goes, well, I was— I used to live in the UK, in London, I think it was, and I learned English by watching Mary Poppins. All my friends call me Mary Poppins, and my mother says I pack my bags like Mary Poppins. Who would have known?

Yeah.

Yeah. So sometimes it's like you just have to go with whatever you see. Even the Mary Poppins, you have no idea, and you— it, it could be just like in mediumship, right? You, you don't know. It could be the craziest thing, but it ends up being the biggest thing. And I couldn't look that up on the internet.

Yeah, you know, that's the thing. I almost laugh at some of these people because I got one particular troll right now because I just put out an interview with Stacy Lynn Cripps a few days ago. And he's like, don't you know how they do this? They look everything up on the internet. I'm like, no one can look up the type of perfume my daughter has on her dresser in her room, or the books in her bookshelf or the color of her bedspread. And I've had mediums who can give me very details about my house that they've never been to.

Evidential, very evidential. And it's like, we don't have the time. Sorry, we don't have the time to sit and try to Google everything, nor do we want to, because then that takes, that takes the credit away from us.

Yeah, yeah, right.

And sometimes it does seem so real that it's like, well, how would they know? So they're trying to make, they're just trying to make a reason out of it.

Yeah.

And what is a miracle?

What—

and those are miracles that are coming to you, the words. What is a miracle? Something that's not explained.

Well, and it's very interesting, like I said, because they'll give you these very simplistic things like, well, of course, she knew that, you know, she had red balloons at her, at her life, you know, service, because it was, it was mentioned in the obituary. And there are some things that people can look up, of course. But I had a medium friend of mine, and she was telling me, your wife had a rainbow birthday cake recently. And I was like, I didn't even know myself. So she wasn't reading my mind. And I asked my wife that, you know, when she got home, she said, yeah, yesterday at work, somebody brought in a rainbow birthday cake. That's again, it's not something anybody can look up.

And that's what's beautiful is what you didn't even know.

Right?

Right. And so I always say to people, I'm not here to make you believe. This isn't my job.

Right?

So either you're going to accept the words that come through, and sometimes people are not ready for it. Have you noticed that? They're just not ready for the information. It's too much. Then they have to say, oh no, you just looked it up. Because it's too much to embrace.

I have had people— it was interesting, someone I referred to a medium friend of mine, and they went to this person and they came back and they said, she must be fake. I said, why? And they said, because she got everything right. So she must have looked it up. And I'm like, you just— it's a self-defeating thing. Because as you said, they're not willing to accept the fact that it's, that it's, that it's real. And you're right, we can't make people believe. What I do want to do is, for people that do see mediums, I don't want anyone else to take away their, their hope, you know, because they'll be told, oh, you're just being played because this person looked up everything on you. And, uh, so I like when you share stories of things that you can't look up. And I love the fact that you've been certified by not one but two, you know, very well-known certification programs that I'm familiar with. I've, I've read Julie's book, so I'm somewhat familiar with that. And instead of Gary, uh, Schwartz, I've worked with, and I know some of the other mediums that he's worked with, and I know these protocols. So it eliminates, you know, cold readings, it eliminates hot readings. You're not reading the person's body language because you're not even seeing them. You don't, you don't. And even the researcher doesn't know who the target is.

Yeah, and it, there's just no way to debunk it. You can't. And I just find it all fascinating. And I hope that people just look at like this. There are two worlds are blended. We're here.. And it feels so much better to be in this space than without it. Right. And to have that connection, to know they're with you. And I hope my family, like, when I pass, that they don't grieve. They celebrate. Celebrate me, who I was and who I still am.

Yeah.

And just have that new connection. Of course, we're all going to grieve. I mean, that's the price we pay for love, right? We're going to feel that pain. But if we can have this new— expand our awareness, expand our heart, and accept it. And I'm not saying you have to just believe it. You don't have to. But when it hits you to the core where it's like, oh my gosh, she was so right, it shifts you. You have to sit back and go, whoa. And that's a powerful moment.

Yeah. Speaking of healing, so do you ever get like someone is just like, it's not time for them to be healed or something like that?

There's been times where it's like, I remember working on this gentleman for a while and we had such great success and then all of a sudden he passes. I'm like, what the heck? And so it, what I kind of had my hands slapped cuz like, it's not up to you. Mm. So I have to go into every session removing my humanist and allowing God to orchestrate, because I don't know what each person's gonna get. One person came to me that, that was dying. There was no way of turning the corner. So I was like, well, how can we, what, what can I do? Don't turn her away. Okay. What am I gonna do? Uh, what am I gonna get? So with her, her father came through and said, don't be afraid. He wore a suit. He showed up in a suit, like, I'm going to be there. I'm going to walk through you with you. You don't have to be afraid in those last moments. And do you know, her husband contacted me and said right before she passed, he looked at her and said, my dad's here. I'm now ready. Wow. It gave her peace in passing. So we never know what each person's going to need. And it may not be the miracle that we think it is. Um, it might be something else. Like, I did one for Brenda, which is Suzanne Giesemann's, um, friend who she connects with still.

Yeah.

And she's in my book, and, um, she actually brought me to Brenda. And Brenda was supposed to pass, but we both, we both felt in her healing like she's healed. Brenda's like, should I just stop my funeral arrangements? Should I just stop this? And I'm like, I think it's good just to have everything in place anyway. Mm-hmm. And she was the one that was throwing up bile at that same time.

Oh, okay.

And it was just so real to her. But she said to me, Deborah, you healed such childhood pain within me that it was so much greater than healing my actual cancer. But I think it's all healed. And I was like, wow, that's a huge statement. Well, she ended up passing, but she had 2 weeks of feeling completely healthy. She got to be with her friends, she got to celebrate, people got to see her as a healthy Brenda. And when she passed, she said that she was able to heal all the baggage before she passed. Who would have known that? So there's just so much more than what I humanly can understand with the healings, because each one's different, but But when we open ourselves up to everything and all, it's just miraculous what can come through.

Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I was hoping you were going to talk about— I know Brenda. I met her a couple of times at a couple of Suzanne's events because she used to follow Suzanne around and I would see her different things. You know, incredible, incredible woman. I know that she felt like she was healed spiritually. And, you know, I think we have to keep in mind healing of the physical body is great, but we're all going to pass at some point. At some point. And that's not, that's not a defeat. That's not a loss. That's, that's the plan. So sometimes, sometimes physical healing is in the cards for us, and sometimes it's not.

I like that you say that, because if I could heal everyone, wow. Right? So there's, there's really no guarantee that you'll be healed the way you want, but you will be healed and touched in the way that you're supposed to be.

Yeah.

And and just coming in with, you know, here's what I have, let's get— let it go, let God take over, and no expectations, and see what all comes. It's just beautiful. You're opening yourself up to even more, to receive more than what you expected. And I think that's— it's right. We're all getting older. Our bodies are going to go through things, and sometimes we have to go through it. When I got cancer, Brian D Smith, I was like, what? I'm a healer. Like, how am I going to tell other people that I have cancer? And do I tell other people? Do I just not tell people? Well, I started writing it. And I was told by Suzanne Wilson, you've got a lot of, um, a lot of tools that you've learning on the way. And so I decided I'd write it before I knew my ending, right? And I used to call it my beast. Okay, beast, you're inside me. And I remember I would go and meditate and I would, you know, we, we think fight that cancer, you know, we're going to fight it. We're going to, we're going to beat this. And that's okay. Some people feel that that's the way they have to walk through it. But I decided to embrace it. So I decided to send love to the cancer. And I started, started to love that area, sending love to it. Like, you know, you've been a magnificent body. You've been wonderful for me. And what do you want to teach me? What are you here to teach me? And so I learned so much more compassion when dealing with people that have cancer, that if I never had cancer, I would not be walking the walk with them. So I found the beauty in my beast in the end.

Yeah.

And some of our greatest hardships can be our greatest blessings. So I embraced it rather than fight it. And I feel sometimes when we fight things, have you ever felt like you're frustrated with your body? Like, ah, I wanted to jog today and my knee hurts. Frustrated because I wanted to do that. Well, frustration causes resistance, and resistance doesn't allow it to heal. But when you sit there and you put your hand on, say, you're a wonderful knee. You've done so much for me. I love you. And it's like a child that's sick. You're embracing it with love. You're nurturing it. It heals, and you're opening yourself up instead of resisting what's there for you. And then you cause blockages when you have that resistance and frustration. Not saying you can't have frustration, because frustration is an emotion that we all have to go through and walk through. But once you recognize it, you can decide what you want to do with it.

Yeah, I love what you said about that, getting curious about this. What is, what is you here to teach me? And I've heard people that have had cancer, which is one of the worst diagnoses most of us can imagine, say it's the best thing that ever happened to me. Which sounds strange to us, maybe, who haven't had it, but they've— they learned something about themselves. They learned something about their body, learned appreciation. It taught them to slow down. It taught them what was important. It might have refocused their life. They may have made, made changes after that, that they weren't— wouldn't have made before. So there can be a lesson in any of these things, including something that we may not have chosen as a human being.

Yeah, it made me stop. My whole world stopped, right? And at that moment, what mattered, right? What was really what matters? Those that you love, those that's around you. Give love, receive love, and just be present. And having to— because you have no choice, you have to be present. How was I going to choose to to— what am I going to bring in my life that where I am just being? And I chose to bring joy. And I think when you choose to bring joy and love into your life, it raises that vibration. I mean, think about it. If you're home and you're lonely and you're not being talked to for weeks upon weeks, and then all of a sudden friends come over with little kids and they're jumping around and they're making you laugh, all of a sudden they leave and you're like, wow, that was a good night. Because you raise the vibration filled with joy. So what can you do to bring joy? Is it just watching the birds and seeing like those? That brings me joy. Is it turning on music? Is it watching a funny movie? Is it saying, oh my gosh, I can throw in a long load of laundry because 2 weeks ago there's no way I could even walk to the laundry machine. Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, there's this— it doesn't have to be hard. It can be simple. Yeah.

Tell me about your Army for Love global gatherings.

Oh, yes. Okay. So Army for Love was given to me when I was going through cancer, when I was under the radiation, getting radiation. It was like, build your army and build it of love. So when I was going through cancer, it's like, those that are around me are my army of support. So the number 4 means that we're always surrounded. Somebody's walking in front of us. Somebody's walking behind us so we don't fall. Somebody's walking on both sides of us, right? We always have support. So my Army for Love, I do a, a, a monthly Zoom on Tuesdays. It's for anybody that's struggling, no matter what you're struggling with— grief, emotionally, physically, spiritually. You come to this platform, it's with no judgments. We put love into action. We're there to listen. We're there to help. Some of us will have that experience that can help another. People gather from around the world. Some people just come to listen because they want to hear the message. But at the end of every session, group meeting, gathering, I do a mini healing. Those healings, those, they're just like Spirit talks through to me for the group and they're all closing their eyes. This one that happened was, um, for a mother that was going through a lot of pain with her child being sick. And God took us all to the ledge, to the ledge of a mountain. And he said, how do you feel? How do you all feel? Are you scared? Would you jump? Are you nervous? Do you not like heights? Do you like heights? How do you feel at this moment? Each of you are going to feel different. And I'm going to ask you to step off that ledge. Can you do it? So we all step off the ledge and we're just floating. And he's like, see, I never let you fall. And he goes, but the biggest thing is you took the leap of faith. We're all done. The mom, mom raises her hand. She says, I have to share something with you. And she's bawling. And she said, she says, only God would have known this, but I only told my husband. I didn't tell anyone else. And I said to, I said to God, if you take my son, I'm going to go to the top of the mountain. I'm going to jump. And she says, he told me I already took my leap of faith. I don't have to jump. Oh, and so, so healing. And so we never know what's going to come through, but they're just, they're, they're little pieces of love and nuggets and, and just welcome anybody to show up, you know, because it is just love in action and no judgments. We don't talk about politics ever. And it's just, how are you feeling today? What is the message of the day? Wow.

So how can people join that?

They can go to my website at goldenmiracles.com. And if they go to Army for Love, there'll be a link, a Zoom link for them to join. It's on the first Tuesday of every month at 3 o'clock Arizona time.

Okay. Okay. Nice.

Yeah.

And if people want to reach out to you to get a reading or getting it, get a healing, um, are you taking people for that now?

Yes, there is a long wait, but if it's, you know, we try to fit people in if they have an emergency and if we get an opening, we keep a list of that. But that's at goldenmiracles.com too, through the website. Okay.

So how long is your wait right now?

It's September.

Okay. Okay.

So it's not too far. It's not too far.

Yeah, it's like 2 months. That's not bad.

That's not bad.

Yeah. Well, it's been really great talking to you and learning more about, you know, what you do and how you help people. And hopefully this will bring some people some hope and some peace. And I know one of the things I want to talk to you about was maybe a final question is, how do people find hope? How do they keep their faith when they're going through difficult times?

That's a really good question, because I always say, Um, never lose hope. Now, when somebody's already lost hope, how did they gain that back? Right? Because they, they may have been through the deepest pain they've ever been through and like, God's not with me. I don't feel God. How do I open that up? First of all, I would say you have to love yourself, right? Give yourself love, hug yourself, look inside the mirror. Have you ever looked in the mirror and looked at your eyes and said, I love you? I love you. And I think once you start loving yourself, then all of a sudden that, that love can now embrace you, and it raises that hope. You'll start to see that hope again. Without that, you're just so heavy, you can't get through the trenches. And so we have to start doing self-love first. But hope is always there for you. It never is— it has never left you. That's one thing I want you to know. Hope is never ever gone. It's just you can't see it or feel it. Thank you.

Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for that, for sharing that. And I want to remind people, your website is goldenmiracles.com, goldenmiracles.com, so people can find Deborah there. And I know you've written 6 books. So tell me about your books also.

Yeah, Proof of Miracles is one of my books that will show people the different types of miracles.

Yeah.

And I've had, um, people read them and say, oh my gosh, I could actually feel the vibration in those words. I could actually feel connected. And it helps them walk through whatever process. They might resonate with one chapter versus another. You don't have to read it from COVID to cover. And then Doctor's Faith and Courage, that was my journey through cancer. And I wrote a lot about what did cancer teach me, but how can you use the tools that I use? I wrote my prayers, I wrote the tools, and so that you could use them on your journey as well.

Awesome, awesome. Deborah, again, thanks for being here. Uh, enjoy the rest of your day.

It's been such a pleasure. Thank you so much.

All right, have a good day. Hi there, I'm really excited to tell you about my latest ebook. It's 4 lessons that you can learn from the near-death experience without going through all the trouble of dying to learn them. I've been studying NDEs for several years now. I am completely convinced that not only are they 100% real, but that there's some very universal wisdom that we can get from the near-death experience. And I've distilled that down in this book into 4 short lessons. And I've also given you all the reasons why I believe that NDEs are absolutely real. So go to www.grieftogrowth.com/NDElessons to pick it up for free. www.grieftogrowth.com/NDElessons. I hope you enjoy it.