Dawn Brunke's Eight Week Conversation With Her Deceased Husband Bob | EP 484

You know you need something, you're just not sure what. You've been listening, you're doing the work, but there's still this feeling that you're circling the same place, like you're waiting for the thing that finally moves you. Now maybe you've thought about working with me one-on-one. Maybe something's held you back, the timing, the money, or you're just not sure you're ready yet. I get that. And I want you to know there's still a place for you. I built a resource for exactly this moment, guided meditations for when the waves hit and you just need to breathe. Workbooks to help you get out of your head and onto the page, ebooks on what near-death experiences tell us about the people we've lost, and whether they're really gone, a full course for widows and widowers who are ready to find their way back to living, and a full course for the evidence of the afterlife. And all of it is available for pay what you want. Nobody gets turned away because of money. I think these resources are valuable, but I don't want to hold them back because you don't have the money to pay for them. You don't have to wait until you're ready for coaching. The next step might be a lot smaller than you think. To find out, go to grief2growth.com/store. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/store. And check out the resources I've made for you. Close your eyes and imagine. What are the things in life that cause us the greatest pain? The things that bring us grief are challenges, challenges designed to help us grow, to ultimately become what we were always meant to be. We feel like we've been buried. But what if, like a seed, we've been planted? And having been planted, we grow to become a mighty tree. Now, open your eyes. Open your eyes to this way of viewing life. Come with me as we explore your true, infinite, eternal nature. This is Grief to Growth. And I am your host, Brian D Smith. Hey there, welcome to Grief to Growth. I'm Brian D Smith. And if you're new here, I'm glad you found us. This show exists for the moments when life cracks us open in ways you didn't expect. When someone you love is gone and the world keeps moving, but you can't quite move with it. We talk about grief, loss, consciousness, and the questions that feel too big to say out loud. What happens when we die? Are the people we've lost still with us? And is it possible that love doesn't end, it just changes form? I bring guests who've lived these questions, not just studied them. So if you're new here, again, welcome, welcome to Grief to Growth. My guest today is Dawn Bowman Brunkie. And Dawn has spent her life listening to animals, to dreams, to the quiet signals that frankly, most of us learn to ignore. Dawn is the author of 10 books. She's an animal communicator and a dream enthusiast living in Alaska. Donna has built her entire body of work around one radical premise, and that's that consciousness is far more expansive than we've been taught to believe, and that real connection doesn't require physical presence. But then that was put to the test. Her husband Bob died unexpectedly after 33 years together, and everything she thought she knew was put to the test. What happened next became her most extraordinary book yet. Talks with Bob is a true story of grief, love, and an ongoing conversation that refused to end. Through dreams, inner world encounters, and shared thoughts, Donna Bob kept talking. And what Bob shared from the other side offers a glimpse into the afterlife that is tender, surprising, and deeply hopeful. Now time works differently there. Love keeps expanding. And the divide between here and whatever comes next may be small, maybe far thinner than we think. And I gotta tell you, I read this book and it really enhanced the way I think about the afterlife in the way of only a handful of books I can think of did. So I wanted to rush to get Dawn on. So that's why she's here with me today. If you've ever lost someone and wondered whether the silence that followed was real, whether the connection you had could possibly survive death, this conversation is for you. Dawn's story might just change what you believe is possible also. If you want to continue this conversation after the episode, head over to grieftogrowth.substack.com. You'll find an article there about today's discussion, where you can comment and connect with me with other listeners. And with that, let's get started with Dawn Brunke.

Hi, Brian. Thanks for that lovely intro.

Yeah, again, thank you so much for being here. I said in the intro, I kind of alluded to the fact that my, my schedule is booked out. We're recording this in April. And I'm booked out through November. But when I read your book, I was like, I've got to get you on now. There's a handful of books I've read that really impacted me, and this is definitely one of them.

Oh, great. Great. Well, thank you. Thank you. You know, it didn't start out to be a book. It was just conversations. And I am an author. So, you know, within a couple of weeks, I was thinking, maybe that's a book. Maybe that would help people. And you didn't ask this, but I'll just tell you that the form The format of the book is basically the conversations that I had with Bob day after day after day. So they kind of meander, and they're about a lot of different things. And it was a challenge for me 'cause the editor in me likes to organize and summarize, you know? And this is more of an invitation for readers to come along and just experience what we experienced, which was a gentle unfolding about the afterlife, about relationship, about my process through grief. And you're right, in the very beginning, You said, you know, grief cracks you open, and that is the word. It just cracked me open. And, you know, and then we're open to a lot of different possibilities of how we choose to move once we're opened like that.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, before we get into the book and everything, I always start by asking people, tell me about Bob. Tell me about your loved one.

Oh, well, he was great. He was— I live in Alaska. He was an Alaska guy, into hunting, fishing. That kind of thing. He was very much what you see is what you get, no pretenses, very solid. You know, he had his challenges like we all do. You know, he thought he was right about most things.

Yeah, we all do.

Yeah. And so, you know, a lot of discussions that way. He was just a really good-hearted person. Not, you know, I mean, I would say I'm a little more intellectual and more into the metaphysics. He wasn't. He was very supportive of my work with animal communication, and he experienced it and believed that was true. But he was just very, very matter-of-fact. He loved to help people. He was a great neighbor, always loved to tell a story. The man, you could not shut the man up. He was just a talker.

Yeah.

And, you know, most everybody who met him really appreciated his huge generous heart.

Yeah. Well, I feel like I got to know him a little bit through the book, and he sounds like a really great guy. And I love the way your relationship actually even evolves as you guys are, you know, moving through this, this 8-week period that the book covers. But, um, so Bob passed away in September 2024, I believe.

Yeah, September 11th, 2024.

Yeah, yeah. So, uh, tell people just really quickly about, about his passing and, and when did he start to communicate with you.

Yeah, it— well, it was very unexpected. He had been on my neighbor's— my elderly neighbor's roof, you know, just days before, clearing moss off with a hose. And, you know, he was a healthy guy. He It really was. The day before he passed, he worked evenings at an Air Force base to keep wildlife off the runways so that the military flights could come and go. So he slept during the day, he worked in the evenings. And the day before, he woke up in the afternoon and he told me he had bad heartburn. And, you know, he got up and I got him some Tums and some ginger ale and, you know, and then he was like, okay, I feel better. So it wasn't, looking back, I see that as a little, you know, red flag that came up. But it, you know, he got up, had dinner, went to work. And then the next morning I got a call. And as soon as I got the call, as soon as I heard the phone, I knew, I just knew. And his supervisor told me that he had collapsed and he had gone, you know, and it's, as you know, it's a shock. You do get cracked open and it is a shock. And I remember hearing the voice of the supervisor talking to me and my own voice is saying, "You're in shock. You're in shock." You know? And shock to me was helpful. It's an anesthetic of sorts, you know? It helps to get through a couple of days. And it was within a couple of days that, actually it was that first night, I was sitting in the living room, just, you know, your thoughts are just all over the place, right? But I felt Bob's presence. I did feel his presence there. And it wasn't a big, deep, profound, magical thing. It was just a knowing, a quiet inner knowing. And a few days later, I had an experience walking around a lake, and I— it was actually quite beautiful. It was a little lake. My daughter was there. She said, "We have to get out of the house." So we're walking with our dogs, and she's ahead of me. And it's a misty day, very misty day, but kind of sunny. Early September or mid-September. And I'm coming around the lake through some trees. And when I come out of the trees, I see the lake and I see the sun coming through the clouds in just this very particular way. And it looks like there's champagne bubbles in the air. And I, in that moment, I felt Bob here on my right shoulder and he whispered in my ear, I'm in your heart. Hmm. And it was just this very profound, again, unasked for, just very kind of organic thing that happened. And I called him my daughter and she came back and I told her what happened. She goes, Mom, I felt that too. Wow. So there was this lovely confirmation early on. And from that point on, it was my habit because I love dreams, as you said, a dream enthusiast. And so in the early morning, I would often just lay in bed and kind of take in the dream world and transition it to waking life. And I started hearing Bob or sensing him. Let me say it that way. I would sense his presence, and I felt him sharing kind of little dream images with me, almost sensations or visuals of what it was like for him. And that just evolved into a conversation back and forth. And I would say within a week or 10 days, I got to the point where, you know, so much was happening there. And I would, because I'm a writer, I'd want to write it down. So I'd get up, write it down. So we transitioned to a point where I would get up, have my coffee, get out the laptop, and just start typing down our conversations. Conversation back and forth. And that's really most of what you're reading in the book, is that daily early morning conversation we were having.

Yeah. And there's so many things I love about the book, but one of the things I love a lot is because I think it's 60 or 70% of people who have lost a spouse report some sort of afterlife communication with them. And they, they either deny it or they're scared to tell other people about it. And, you know, it— we really need to have these conversations so people realize this is not as uncommon as people think. Now, your level of detail with Bob is unusual, um, and I wonder how much of that you think is because of your work before as an animal communicator, because you're communicating with animals, and I guess both living and dead.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay. Yeah. So yeah, I had done that work for about, uh, 20 years, so I had a good foundation of how to do that. It was just very natural for me. I never took a class, anything like that. It It just kind of happened and evolved. And it's odd because when he died, I did not think of communicating with him that way. It was more him who reached out to me. And I also empathize with people. You know, we doubt, we doubt. I doubted it. Even after 20 years of doing this work, I was like, "Hmm, am I projecting this? Am I just missing him so much that I'm seeing what I want to see, hearing what I want to hear?" You know, so we have to reckon with that, or I did anyway. Strong inner skeptic. But so many things happened that confirmed to me, you're really hearing this. This is really real, you know. And then it became fascinating. And then I started following my curiosity and asking questions because it's something we all want to know, right? What happens when we die? It's what happens.

Yeah, we do. And I tell you, I have a friend who just lost their significant other a few weeks ago, and I feel so feel bad for her. And one thing she posted today, she said, you know, I don't get any signs. And she said, I just want to know that she's okay, you know. And that, that's like the number one thing people want to know. It's like, is my loved one okay? Yeah. And, and I think this book, even though Bob's situation is specific, and we'll talk about some of those things, I think one of the things we can always say is our loved ones are okay.

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I think so. I think without a doubt, they're all okay.

Yeah. Yeah. And so that, you know, Bob passed from a heart attack, a sudden, you know, heart attack.

Heart incident.

Yeah, it's a heart incident. Yeah. So we, you know, another thing we think is like, our loved one, what was it like for them? You know, did they suffer? And I know you got some pretty good detail about Bob's passing.

Yeah, I was, I was fascinated by it. Like, what happens? What were your experiences? And he told me, or shared with me, visuals and actual feelings of his death numerous times. And it was almost like it was a a crystal, right? And he was showing me one facet one time, then another facet, then another, you know, and I think it evolved, um, his understanding of that as he evolved there. So yeah, he went kind of into, I mean, the short version is he kind of went into this dark space, not a bad space at all, just a separating space, you know, where he saw some geometric figures. And then he was in a park-like setting and his family was there and his friends were there and it was great. And then he thought of us, myself and my daughter, and he whooshed back in, was looking at his body, that kind of above, you know, and he realized it was, it was too late. It was too far damaged to come back, you know. And so there was this kind of back and forth and then a gradual acceptance of being in, you know, the afterlife. Yeah. And I think his curiosity kicked in then too, because he had a lot of really interesting experiences. And yeah, absolutely. You know, and I think too, for people who are wondering again about their loved ones that have just passed, I think there is a sense, and I've heard this from other near-death experiencers and others, a sense of being home, you know, and a sense of comfort and something, it's something you've always known, even though on earth we forget, you know, we come here kind of with amnesia, right? And we forget things. And then you open, you expand in your spirit. And there's a sense of comfort there, I think.

Yeah. And I think one of the things that the questions that people often have, because I studied near-death experiences a lot, I've had a lot of near-death experiences on, and people will say, well, this person had a near-death experience, and they were given a choice, and they came back. I know if my loved one had a choice, they would come back. And I know, I know, some people say, no, I didn't choose to come back, I was forced to come back. But Bob's case is really interesting. It sounds like his— it's like his body was too far damaged. And there is, there is a limit to what our bodies can take, right? So if our body is damaged too badly and we're out, we may not have the opportunity to come back.

Yeah. And there was a sense that this was planned, if you will. Yeah, it was his path and it was his. And later on, there are some discussions in the book about— and in the second book about it being his his choice, you know, really to go in that way at that point in time. And because it had to happen.

Yeah.

I know you had Jonathan Ashford on and he talks about that a little bit, you know, how some things happen because they need to happen.

Yeah. Well, from our perspective, from the people left behind, death is always a tragedy. From the perspective of the soul, it's not necessarily a tragedy and it's a foregone conclusion. That we're all going to pass at some point. It's just a matter of, of when and, and how.

Yeah.

Um, and it's— and I tell people, it's never enough time. You guys were together for, was it 33 years?

33 years. Yeah.

Yeah. It's never enough time. I've had so many people say, I just wanted more time. It's like, I don't know anybody that said it's enough. My, my father-in-law passed. They had been together for, I don't know, I'm going to say about 60 years. Probably more than 60 years. My mother-in-law was like, "It was too soon. I didn't expect him to go." So I think that's just always going to be the case.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? And it's what we're used to, and it's what we love. And so when that's gone, you're forced to really reevaluate everything about your life.

Yeah. So for Bob, he finds himself on the other side. And so it sounds like it's kind of an evolution. You know, when he got there. And I think there's some things that are unique about our afterlife experiences. Some things are kind of, you know, kind of universal. And he talks about that. Now, he was a big outdoors guy, right? So describe the environment he found himself in.

Yeah, well, it was a park-like setting. And he had— every year he loved to go on this hunt by himself, a solitary hunt for moose. And I had just bought him this really nice tent and a titanium lightweight stove. And, you know, so anyway, And I was telling my daughter, because we're looking at it in the garage, I'm like, your dad is going to be so irritated that he didn't get to go on his hunt, right? And the next morning, in that in-between space, he said, I'm going to go on the hunt. I'm like, what? How are you going to do that? And he did proceed to tell me about this in-between space, if you will, kind of between physical life and the afterlife. And it's kind of a melding of that, of that space. And he did go on his hunt, and it wasn't a hunt in the sense that he was gonna kill animals. It was a hunt that he was going to deepen in awareness with animals. It was very unique. He showed me how he was pointing his finger, and if the animal saw him and looked into him, he would have the opportunity to learn about the animal. So it was so interesting, you know, how that in itself, I think, was an evolution and a deepening of what it means to hunt and be hunted. And that theme of was consistent for him for about a month because he went on a hunt with his other selves. And at one point he said to me, you know what I'm hunting, right? And I go, what? He goes, I'm hunting myself. I was like, yeah, you're hunting your deeper self. You know, you're looking for that deeper sense of connection between your many age selves, between you and physical, you and spirit. So yeah, that was also an evolution of the way that he would see the world.

Yeah, and it was—

yeah, go ahead.

You introduced a really interesting concept because you talked about his other selves. So he was seeing himself at various ages and actually meeting with these beings that were him. Yeah, yeah.

And that's kind of how he did his life review. And again, I will say, I will preface this by saying Bob was very clear numerous times that everybody's afterlife experience is unique. It's unique to them, to how they understand the world and their personality. And so Bob was very much a a do-it-yourself kind of guy. So he was going to do his life review the way he was going to do it, right?

Yeah.

And that's one way that he did it was meeting with his other aged selves, especially younger selves that had trauma or that had, you know, misunderstandings in life. And he was kind of able to follow his challenges in life to those earlier selves and to kind of see how they developed and how those challenges affected him later in life. So yeah, it was a type of self-healing, I might call You know?

Yeah. And that's what, you know, it was interesting because it's not a, um, it's not a life review in terms of like judgment or stuff. And again, as you said, you know, it's— everybody's is probably going to be different. Um, but I thought his was really interesting because it was this kind of an integration of these various selves and also introduces some ideas that really just blow my mind, like parallel timelines and alternate lives and stuff like that. So some of that stuff kind of kind of comes in there too and gets explained at least a little bit for me.

Yeah, yeah, that was interesting because he did introduce the idea of alternate lives, past lives we might call them. And what was interesting to me, I mean, I thought it was educational, right? Oh, what was our past life together? That's how you sort of begin, right? But when we went into those experiences, Bob was of the opinion that we could talk to our alternate selves in those lives and help them. And I thought it just deepened the experience for me because we were actually affecting changes. Maybe you'd say it throughout time, throughout different realities, and those selves were affecting us. And I think that just was a whole, you know, different way of looking at reality and how we perceive the world.

Yeah. So you kind of touched on this earlier. Your process became like you you would, you would wake up in the morning, you would, you would have these, uh, in-between stages also. So you, you actually experienced Bob in dreams, I think, in between stage, and then you'd sit down with your laptop and you would, you would continue the conversation with them there, right?

Right. Yeah, I wanted to get it all down because so much, you know, so much of it was kind of wispy. And yeah, and later I was really appreciating because little things that were talked about one day were then picked up in another and kind of carried through. And yeah, it was the It was a whole connected thread that was divided up by days.

Yeah. And I like the, you know, you mentioned the editor and yourself and the, I guess, the temptation to organize it. But I love the organic flow of it because we kind of, we get to go on this journey with you as you and Bob are going on. And we see Bob, his evolvement in the afterlife. And because there were some guides there also, but they seemed to kind of kind of step back because it sounds like Bob was like, I'm a do-it-myself kind of guy. So they're like, we're here if we need, if you need us. Yeah.

Yeah. They definitely were there. And he refers to them often. And sometimes he would bring in guides, like experts, you know, to do a guest appearance. But I'll say one other thing about that, which was in the beginning, Bob's voice was very much as I knew it on Earth. It was very, you know, very certain way. And as he evolved, which I really think is an expansion of consciousness, his voice changed. And sometimes he would use words or phrases that would just, I would be so surprised because it wasn't like him. And oftentimes he would say things that were outside my, the way I saw life. And that was again, a little proof like, this is another, you know, this is him in an expanded state talking to me and sharing information. And we really evolved together. I think it was incredibly helpful for my own journey. And here's an interesting thing. I think I was helpful for him. And I think that's something we don't often think about with the afterlife. You know, we tend to think, oh, that person's, you know, totally expanded. But in my experience with Bob, that's not the case. You know, that there's still evolution on that side and there's still life planning and life, you know, events that affect us in that world. And so,— it was really helpful. I mean, he said it to me several times. It was really helpful that I was there, both as an anchor in here to help him remember certain things, but also to help him expand.

Yeah.

Just as he was helping me expand. And that's really the beauty of relationship, isn't it? Of a relationship founded in love and having that expansion.

Yes, exactly. So yeah, again, one of the things I really loved about the book was, again, him with all the, you know, his younger selves and stuff. So that all those they're all still in us. They still make us up. But also the connection, again, that he— they still need it with you in order to further his expansion. And, you know, again, you do these— use these various vehicles to communicate. And one image I really loved was the image of the bridge that you talked about. Yeah. So, so tell people about the bridge.

Yeah, well, it just became a, a really good, uh, uh, symbol of what was happening. And, you know, it was the bridge between between the physical world and the afterlife. And we would travel back and forth and kind of meet on that bridge. It was as if our conversations were that way because it is, it's a segue, a meeting between, you know, physicality and spirit. And there were a lot of different experiences, but sometimes I found I could only go so far, you know? And he would say, yeah, it's like dreaming, like dream, you go in dreams and then you have to bring them back. So there was a little bit of a, of bustle work involved. In kind of opening to that and then bringing the images back. And there's also the notion that other people had made bridges between the living and the dead, and that this was a bridge, and that it was very much for everyone. You know? So you're welcome to come on this bridge because it's a bridge of connection, and it is for everyone. And the more that we do that, you know, as a world, the more openings we give, whether it's film or books or music or art, you know, there's a lot of those bridges present that help us move between those states. And Bob was always the opinion that we are of spirit. We're in spirit world. We just have forgotten. You know, the bridge is something that helps us reconnect not only with loved ones, but with ourselves.

Yeah. Yeah. And you talked about earlier about maybe being a little skeptical. Was, am I making this up or is this my imagination? And, um, one of the things that really makes me think it's not your imagination, it's just the concepts in it are so profound and they resonate so much. And as you said, it's kind of more like a remembering. So when people read and hear these things, they're like, yeah, that makes sense to me. And that's just the feeling I got when I read the book.

Yeah, thanks. Yeah, I think— and I think that's true in life, you know, we resonate with certain things and we know We don't need it scientifically documented because we know it in our heart. We know it with our being, right? So when you feel that, and yeah, I think that's why books like this or artworks or even songs a lot of times can help us move into that space, which is more open, more expansive. Yeah.

And so I don't know if you ever heard of this, the books called The Team. It's a series of books by a woman named Frances Key, and her mother had passed in the spirit world. And her mother channeled these books through her. It's a trilogy, and there's a, there's a fourth book also. Um, and your book reminded me so much of that because it's a lot of these same concepts, and concepts that to me are kind of like beyond human concepts. Like, we can talk to our younger selves and help heal our past. I'm like, that's not something I would come up with on my own, right?

Right. Yeah. I mean, the whole experience for me was an opening of possibilities. And I think when we're in that space, um, we can take in a lot more, right?

Yeah. Yeah. So as, as you're going through this experience, I have to tell you, um, I'm going through it with you as I, as I, uh, I listen to books because I walk every morning. So I was listening to the book and then I get this feeling like, okay, Bob's kind of starting to pull away a little bit and saying this is going to be coming to an end. And I got kind of sad. How did you feel when that happened?

Yeah, well, that's talked about more in the second book. Um, and yeah, he was wanting to evolve. And you know, it, it's like, this is my perception of the afterlife from him. There's this entry realm where souls come and they kind of get acquainted. They meet their family, friends, you know, maybe they still think they're eating and sleeping and things like that. And then it becomes, uh, you know, more open and more expansive and you can do different do different things in the afterlife, you know, experience different scenes and different things. And then it becomes more formless, right? So those places are— he was of the opinion that when he goes to the formless state, it would be very difficult to communicate. So I think he kind of stayed in that entry-level place, you know? And yeah, I didn't— at that point in my life, that was, again, the book is the first 8 weeks after he's died. So it's not that long. And that was the highlight of my day. Is to be able to talk to Bob. I was in this open heart, expanded space. Everything was fine. And then come 10 o'clock, after I looked at it and corrected for grammar and punctuation, I'd be like, oh, now I'm in the day. Now I have this despair. Now I have this sadness, this loss, this heaviness, right? So I forgot my train of thought here. What were we talking about?

We were talking about when Bob started saying that eventually—

Oh, that he was gonna leave.

—we're gonna be moving. Yeah.

So he wanted to expand, and I understood that, and I didn't want to keep him, you know, even though I wanted to keep him, I didn't want to keep him. And so there was a sense of him gonna go on this adventure, and that is covered later, and he does go on an adventure, and spoiler alert, he comes back. Yeah. So, and I think that was because, somewhat because of these books, and because of wanting to help people. And I think that actually the guides, some of his guides there were very encouraging, you know, not in the beginning, because in the beginning it was just us talking, but it became something. The bridge became real. It became more, I don't know how to say it, you know, I want to say concrete. It wasn't concrete, but it was metaphorically, you know, more real for people to travel. And that was an important thing. Um, and that is an important thing for all of us. Yeah.

And so, you know, I, I work with a lot of people who have lost spouses, and, um, it's— I actually wrote a little short story called One Day in Heaven because, um, almost all my clients are like, if I could just spend a day with them, if I could just spend an hour with them just to see what their life was like, you know, then I'd be okay. And, um, I love that, you know, you, you like, here it is, I had 8 weeks of this. But you, you're very honest with the fact it's like, okay, I would have this— you're on this high in the morning, you're, you're having these dreams, you're having this in-between state, you're having your coffee, you're— and you're writing. But then at 10 o'clock, you close the laptop and here you are.

Yeah, it was just— yeah. And but I will say, and especially for listeners who are going through grief, you know, um, for me what happened was the universe conspired. All of my animal communication clients went away. I didn't have anything on my schedule. I'm a very proactive person, so I joined some grief groups. I read the grief books. But more importantly than that, I sat with those emotions. Because I made that my practice, my meditation, if you will, to really feel that grief, to feel that loss. And you know, it does. It kind of comes in waves. So, you know, for a while you're fine. You're having lunch with friends and it's good. And then you come home and, "Ooh," you know? And so I would really feel that sadness in my body. And just sit with that. And then things come up, you know, old thoughts, old losses, old feelings of being abandoned. All of that comes up, you know, as you know, it's a process, right? And you're really tapping into it. I mean, for me, then it became really helpful to do that because I knew I was clearing things and I was making light of— and I really moved past my grief relatively quickly. And I think it was because of that. That, not only the conversations with Bob, but also because, you know, doing the work, doing the shadow work, if you will. Yeah. And that's, um, that is so helpful.

Yeah, I think that's— again, that's a lesson I want people— or for me anyway, um, we can have these experiences, you know, and everybody— again, if I just got, you know, one dream or one sign or whatever, then I wouldn't have to go through all the junk. And it's like, no, we still have to go through the junk.

Yeah. Yeah, it's an inside job. You still got your stuff to go through. Yeah, each of us, everybody, you know, and Bob had his stuff to go through. You know, he had his ways of looking at life and kind of what, and he wanted to, he wanted to go back there. And he did tell me, you know, there's some people who come here and they just, they reincarnate right away. They don't want to have to do that, right? Just like people here, you know, there's a lot of us who we divert, we drink or we eat or we whatever we do to avoid having that conversation with our deeper self. And so, and it's a choice. I don't know that there's a right or wrong. I think it's just a choice of what we want to do. And I was very, I wanted to, I wanted to go into the depths of it and feel it.

And choice is a really good word to talk about here too, because I remember right after my daughter passed, it was around the time that the book, The Afterlife of Billy Fingers was really popular.

Oh yeah, that's a good one.

And a friend of mine, you know, recommended me the book. Said, it's the best book, you know, you should read this book. And, and I read it, and at the end, it's like Billy becomes so enlightened that he just goes away. And I was, I was so mad. I was like, this is not what I want to be reading, you know, right after my daughter passed away, because, you know, a lot of us feel like we don't, we don't want to miss them, right? Yeah. So there is, there is a choice. And I think there is, at least from my, my understanding— you tell me if you think this, if it's different from your understanding— it's It's like we go to this in-between place and we do some of this work and stuff, but then sometimes people will go to the next level, but then they can still come back, but just they're not as attached to the Earth as they were before.

Um, they come back to the afterlife, you mean? Kind of that beginning?

Yeah, they can come back and still communicate with us is what I mean.

Yeah, it was really interesting with Bob, and I can really only speak to his experience, was that he did go on this voyage to this other space, this other realm, and came back. And when he left, you know, he was sort of like, he would talk a little sassy about the guides, you know, like, oh, there are the guides again, you know, and make fun of them in a little bit of a way, not in a bad way. And he went back, and then when he came back, he's like, I think I'm going to be a guide. What? Right? And that became his work for a while, is to be a guide, because it, I think, I don't know, again, I can't speak to the afterlife in terms of my own memory, but I think with some there is an expansion and then a very purposeful coming back, whereas other people like the Billy Finger story, you know, just went and dissipated right into the big beyond. That's a choice. And like I said, some people come back, reincarnate if you want to call it that, or go to alternate lives. However you want to see it. You know, there's again, many possibilities. Yeah. Yeah.

And so I think sometimes we want to pigeonhole it and say this is what it's like. But just like life on Earth, you know, we all make different choices. We all do different things. And, you know, as I was hearing about Bob's afterlife, like, this probably would not be mine. Spending time in a tent, it's not something that would really appeal to me. But, you know, I could see it's like, well, this is the way I experienced Earth. So this is like the next step. The next phase of that. And when people have near-death experiences, sometimes people will criticize it, say, well, is it a forest or is it a beach? Is it, you know, is it a city or is it, you know, whatever? It's like, I think it's customized. It's what we need to experience, what we want to experience.

Yeah, yeah, the way you want to experience it. Yeah. You know, and some people have dark afterlives, you know, and they do feel unworthy or judged in life. And that becomes a little bit of a scenario to to deal with. And Bob showed me a few of those, and I think he helped in a few of those. And yeah, it wasn't his experience, but he was also very much an explorer. So he was really interested in different scenes and how different people did things. And he was still talking. He was always asking people how they died and, you know, what happened, what's their story. And I think that's a common little thread there in that introductory realm of the afterlife.

Yeah. Yeah. So, so he was experiencing other, other spirits of people who crossed over, and he experienced your, your mother, I believe.

Yeah, my mom had passed away a number of years ago, and he had always had a close relationship with her. And yeah, so that was interesting. It kind of put me in touch with her. And I think when she passed away, I was okay with it. She was kind of in a space where she was ready to go, and that was good. But I realized when he put me in touch with her that I hadn't fully grieved that. And so it was a really good opportunity to talk with her and to allow that kind of stuff to come up. And yeah, yeah.

And yeah, that was lovely. Yeah. So again, you, I think, I'm not going to say had an advantage, but you had preparation, I guess, by doing this work and being maybe open to more subtle energies and understanding expanded consciousness. This. For people that are going through this now, the, um, what would your advice be to them? They're like— because I know I can hear people right now going, how do I get some of this? How do I, how do I start to experience this or open my mind to it?

Do you have any suggestions? I do. It's, it's similar to what I tell people when I do animal communication workshops. It's the first step is let go of trying, because that's a big one there, right? Oh, trying so hard. So you want to get to a quiet space you know, if it's for you in nature, if it's in the evening laying in your bed or in the early morning, and just be open. It's really cultivating a space of openness, a space of, "I'm ready to receive. I don't have to receive. I don't know how I'm gonna receive. I don't know, no, no, no, no, no. Let all that go. And I'm just gonna be open." And I would say to begin, speak to your beloved, whatever you wanna say. Everything you want to say from your heart. You just start talking. Sometimes that in itself, right, is so helpful. And then when you allow that to come out and you allow there to be an open space, you might not hear right then, but maybe that day a feather comes down. Maybe that day you see a flower in a certain way, or somebody says something to you that your beloved used to say. You know, there are these very subtle signs, and they come when we're not expecting them, when we're not trying so hard. You know. Yeah. So that's what I would say. I would be, let go, speak from your heart, be open, and, um, and welcome, welcome what comes. Yeah.

Well, that's just, uh, one of the first signs you said you got was you were walking around that lake and it was, uh, it was, you were open to the fact that there's just that, that moment kind of presented itself to you. Um, yeah. So just being open to those things, I find that people It's really funny because people tell me, I haven't had any signs, but then we'll continue to talk and then I'll say, well, except for, you know, the fact that I see the number 11:11 all the time, or this cardinal's been coming and sitting outside my window every day for, you know, for a month, or, you know, stuff like that. So the signs are not necessarily huge miraculous things. And, and Bob talked about, like, uh, you had some animal communications also, right?

Yeah, yeah. He showed up. It kind of sounds weird, but he would, he kind of showed up a few times as an animal and it was an unusual situation. And from doing animal communication work, I can tell you this does happen a lot, is that, well, not a lot, but it happens that those in spirit world will sometimes use an animal to look at us a certain way or to show up at a time when, excuse me, you wouldn't expect them there. Or you wouldn't, you know, it would be a space that you wouldn't. And again, we go back to that resonance. There's this inner knowing you have, and it is subtle. You know, you're like, what's that? Why is that cat looking at me? Right? Or you look up at birds and there's a certain movement of the birds. It can be anything. And it just, it, let me say it this way. It speaks to our heart, not our mind. You know? So if you can be open with your heart, That's the sweet spot, really is.

Yeah, it reminds me— I hadn't thought about this in a while. It was, it was a few months after my daughter Shayna passed away. My daughter Kayla was sitting on our deck and I was in my office here working. And Kayla, uh, I think she sent me a picture. She sent me a picture of like this butterfly. And I went out there and there's this butterfly that it flew around her for like half an hour, just kept circling around, landing on the rail right next to her. It let her touch it. And, you know, it was like we both knew that, you know, that, that was Shayna coming through her now. Yeah. Um, and it's interesting, I think Bobby talked like you can kind of like— it's kind of like a mind meld, I guess, with, with the animal, if they, if they allow you to, and kind of influence its behavior.

That's what he said from, from, um, spirit world. It's like a, um, I don't know if I'd say a mind meld, but it is like that. It's an, an ability to influence— Bobby's the word— influence an animal. You know, and it's gentle and it's not a possession or anything weird like that. It's just a very gentle— and I think animals are often open to that, you know, because they're more wide open than we are and more in tune with nature. And so there comes a desire to connect with somebody and sometimes they allow that, right? Yeah. So it's very natural and loving.

Yeah. And well, it reminds me, there's a woman that I know, her name is Suzanne Wilson. She's a medium. And she teaches people how to connect in spirit. And one thing she talks about, she says you need to understand from your loved one's side, the people, they have to learn how to communicate with the animals and to make that connection. So some people are better at that than others are, and I guess they have to— or I hate when we say they because it's us. When we cross over, we are them, but we have to learn how to make that connection, you know, once we're over there.

Yeah, and I think you're right. Some people are just more open to that than others, and, you know, we all have different areas of expertise. And things that we like. And I remember later Bob was talking about when he was a guide, becoming an animal often, that people, you know, spirits would be there and they, not everybody would know that they had passed, right? And so sometimes being an animal was a gentler way to convey that information, which makes me think that sometimes for us, seeing an animal, you know, or having a butterfly circle is, it's a gentle way, right? It's a gentle way of, and a safe way of touching us, of reaching us. And so maybe we're a little bit more open to that. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great way to do it. Yeah. Yeah.

It's kind of that bridge, you know, that, and again, that part of the book, I've actually used that when I've been talking to clients about that, you know, that bridge that we can build, that we can meet our loved ones halfway. So I think it's a really beautiful analogy. That shows that, you know, we've got to kind of raise our vibration, to use that, if you want to use that term, and they kind of have to kind of come down to where we can come to a place where we can kind of meet in the middle. And so you have some great stories about that. So I want people to understand, you know, as we're having this conversation, there is so much more in the book. So don't feel like, you know, we're even coming close to touching it. It's just really, like I said, really made me think a lot about a lot of things in very different ways. But again, I was coming to the end of the book. I was like, oh, I can't believe this. And it's a detailed book, but I was like, I was sad that it was over. And I realize it's been, what, about a year and a half, I guess. So what's life like for you now? It's good. It's good.

I mean, you know, we're going through a lot of challenges in the world, right? So there's that. Yeah. But yeah, I would say I still talk to Bob and he's just very much a— a loving being and a guide of sorts, you know? And yeah, there is more. So I just wanna let people know there is a second book and possibly a third, but the second book's almost ready to come out because those conversations do continue. And there's some, and it becomes really interesting, you know, about the nature of time and reality and how we evolve. And in the second book, I talk more about my evolution through grief and really coming through that, how a powerful dream helped me move through that and really changed me. Changed me in a way where I think I have a different foundation now. I have a different appreciation, more depth, more connection to really the deep love that's really everywhere as soon as we open to it.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I'm glad to hear that there is a second book coming out because like I said, the first book really left me wanting more. Um, in terms— and I, and I'm, I'm also kind of glad to hear you say that you're still communicating with Bob, because again, I, that's— I think that's a big fear a lot of us have about our loved ones when they pass. It's like, well, what if they, what if they move on? What if they, what if they leave me? What if they don't, you know, they forget about me? And I think that is one thing I'll speak for myself. When my daughter passed away, it's like, I don't want to live another 30 years, you know, at the time I was in my mid-50s, I'm like, I want to go see her now because, you know, I don't want her to evolve and become something else. So we want to be assured that, you know, where that connection is still there. And another thing, I guess we didn't really talk much about, you know, so far, it was like you, you talk about different lives and even, um, you talk about like a dream that you had, I believe, and you're like, were those people real? Were those characters real? Um, and And it's— Bob's like, well, yeah, they— I guess they kind of are. So let's talk about, you know, reincarnation, alternate timelines, and that kind of stuff that's also covered.

Okay, well, yeah, I mean, reality, yeah, right, you know. So in, in, in this book, it— we accept the idea that there are different frameworks of reality. There's different, you know, ways of seeing that. So in terms of alternate lives, sometimes, like I said before, you know, sometimes these He would talk about this past life and we would share this scenario. It would be the story of the life. Okay, is that life exact or is that a metaphor of energies that are working? Does it matter? I don't know. No. The point for me that was really most powerful was the ability to connect with those beings, those alternate selves, and help them. You know, and I remember one, a future self, who I got to see her life and the way that she dealt. And her husband, who she really, really loved so much, was living with her in spirit. So on Earth, like in her house as a spirit. And I was like, wow, that's an interesting way to do it. Like, how do all these different selves deal with this stuff? You know, how do they evolve? So the connection or the conversation connection that was allowed between that affected me. Maybe it affected her. So it's, again, I think it's a deepening of our perception of reality. It's a deepening of our perception and experience of ourself and of others. Yeah. So it's just, again, wide open. How open are you? Yeah.

And it blows my mind because I'm an engineer, so I'm kind of a literal thinker and stuff. And so when I hear about past lives and parallel timelines like that, it just kind of, again, blows my mind a little bit. But I think probably a better way to think about might be like parallel lives. And I remember reading a book years ago, I can't remember the name of the author right now, but she talked about seeing past lives. But she also mentioned seeing future lives. And people think, well, how could you see a future life? It hasn't happened yet. And she's like, well, they're all happening together, right? And so in that sense. It's like all of our little characters, we can influence the other one. We can influence even a future life. And, um, and then there may be times in our lives we felt like we got some, some sort of insight or something. It may be coming from our future self.

Yeah, yeah, I think so. And I think also it helps to think of— I know Bob would always say, everything's really now. It's all really now, you know? Yeah. And so I would think of the big now, and then I would think of, okay, but I'm in the little I'm in a little now right now. And so we have all these little nows and their parallel selves, alternate selves, however you want to say it. Yeah, because it's just a construct, right? So if it's all in the now, it's all happening right now. It's a mind blower. You know, we're linear here. That's how we see time. So you need to be able to step out of that a little bit in order to appreciate kind of the, some of the subtleties of time. And I don't know if we can do it with our brain. You know, I don't think we can really expand to that point. Right. Uh, uh, maybe you have to be in spirit to, to do that, but, but there's ways, you know, there's ways to appreciate that.

Yeah, I think that's the conclusion I've come to. In fact, it's funny, I was listening to a podcast yesterday with Neil deGrasse Tyson, and, uh, the title of the— it was on Mayim Bialik's show, and the title was, um, I think it was, are we smart enough to understand the universe? And so I, I really— I thought, and, and like people like him will say, you know, we're basically intelligent chimps, and, you know, you know, chimps can't understand, you know, advanced algebra. We— we're— these are concepts I think that are beyond the ability of my brain to really understand. I can use analogies. For example, I can, I can travel in my mind to time. I can think about things in the past. And my understanding is when we're in spirit, we can literally be there, right? We, we have that thought and we're literally there. You talked about, you know, Bob after he passed and the different perspectives and being in one place and then thinking about you and your daughter and then, you know, being there.

And it's instantaneous for him. That's what he would say. It's all in that now. Yeah. And I would also just add, you know, there have been humans who have had transcendent experiences that have gone beyond, you know, and then sometimes their life's journey, 20, 30 years, is bringing it back and integrating it and sharing with others. So there's that too. I just wouldn't want to limit, you know, how open we can be. I don't know. Yeah.

Well, yeah, there are definitely people that have different, different levels of understanding as different abilities, even being in the body. I think that's what you said, spirit. That's our natural state. Most of us are so caught up in the physical and so anchored to this point of view, we can't get outside of that. And that's, I think, another reason why possibly that you had this experience with Bob that, that goes beyond what so many people have because of the conditioning, the work that you had done for years before that. So I'm like, I don't want to limit anybody to say you can't have this experience, right? But for people that aren't having it, don't think it's because there's something wrong with you. It's like, it's just, that's the natural human state. It is.

And you know, the other thing I would want to say about that is go with what you feel. If you're an artist, a sculptor, or a painter, and that's how you can bring your connection in, that's what you want to do, right? I mean, I just happen to be a word person, so I get words, right? Yeah. But, and if you're a dancer, you know, there's something beautiful about the dance, about movement that brings things up. So we go with where we are and what our passion is and follow that. Yeah. If you're a meditator or you like to snorkel or scuba dive, maybe you find, you know, that in the ocean, right? There's all kinds of ways. Yeah.

Yeah. You're right. It's whatever moves you and helps you to make that connection. And, you know, again, I think because you're back— and again, even with the afterlife, right? Sometimes people will take some of these things so literally. It reminds me of someone I knew, or someone I know, reading the Bible, and it says, okay, well, heaven is streets of gold and, you know, rivers of milk and honey. And people go, that doesn't sound appealing to me. So if you read the book and people are like, I don't want to have to live in a tent and go hunting, hunting boots, that doesn't sound like a great afterlife for me. That's, that's Bob's afterlife. That's not going to be your afterlife.

I'm not going to be in the chat either, let me tell you.

But yeah, actually, Bob reminds me a lot of a friend of mine. And I was like, I could see my friend going, this sounds perfect to me. Yeah, yeah.

It's all what you're— what you need. It is what it is, right? Yeah.

But I think that, again, the overall, the overall lessons that we can take away from it, again, I think about about the fear that, that people have. Do our loved ones still care about us? Do they still know what's going on with us? You know, are they okay? Um, are they, are they lonely? I think this book answers all those really deep questions that people have when, when they lose someone. That, that, that first part of it, you know, you're just, you're just so fearful. I love the fact that this is going to really help relieve so much for that for Good.

That's why we're putting it out.

Yeah. So we're recording this in April of 2026. When do you think the next book will be out?

Within a few weeks. Oh, really? Okay. It's already written. I'm just formatting it and it's a week or two. Yeah. And it's the same title, just Book 2. Book 2: Beyond Grief is the same title. So, yeah.

So, Dawn, is there anything that I didn't ask you that you'd like to get across today?

You know, I think you did a great job. I think we covered a lot here. And I think there's no one answer. And that, you know, again, it's about resonance, what works for you, for each individual. And I would say, if there's one message from Bob, it's about trusting love. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. That's really what it is. Great way to end it. So remind people of your name and— and, and the title of the book?

Sure. Dawn Baumann Brunke. The book is called Talks with Bob: A True Story of Love, Death, and Life in the Afterlife. Yeah.

And I, again, I want to just make sure I emphasize this for people that are listening to this. Um, there, there's so much more in the book that we just barely touched on today. So, um, I do, I highly recommend. That's why I wanted to rush to get you on, because I think it's really, really important.

Thank you. Thank you.

Dawn, have a great afternoon.

You too. All right.

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