Deb Strebel: Turning Sibling Loss into Legacy Through Memorial Jewelry

You know you need something, you're just not sure what. You've been listening, you're doing the work, but there's still this feeling that you're circling the same place, like you're waiting for the thing that finally moves you. Now maybe you've thought about working with me one-on-one. Maybe something's held you back, the timing, the money, or you're just not sure you're ready yet. I get that. And I want you to know there's still a place for you. I built a resource for exactly this moment, guided meditations for when the waves hit and you just need to breathe. Workbooks to help you get out of your head and onto the page, ebooks on what near-death experiences tell us about the people we've lost, and whether they're really gone, a full course for widows and widowers who are ready to find their way back to living, and a full course for the evidence of the afterlife. And all of it is available for pay what you want. Nobody gets turned away because of money. I think these resources are valuable, but I don't want to hold them back because you don't have the money to pay for them. You don't have to wait until you're ready for coaching. The next step might be a lot smaller than you think. To find out, go to grief2growth.com/store. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/store. And check out the resources I've made for you. Close your eyes and imagine. What are the things in life that cause us the greatest pain? The things that bring us grief are challenges, challenges designed to help us grow, to ultimately become what we were always meant to be. We feel like we've been buried. But what if, like a seed, we've been planted? And having been planted, we grow to become a mighty tree. Now, open your eyes. Open your eyes to this way of viewing life. Come with me as we explore your true, infinite, eternal nature. This is Grief to Growth. And I am your host, Brian D Smith. Hi there, I'm Brian D Smith. I want to welcome you to another episode of Grief to Growth. And whether this is your very first time joining us, or you've been with us for a while, I am truly grateful that you're here. This is a space where we navigate the toughest parts of life. We talk about grief, we talk about loss and everything in between. While we're also exploring the big questions: Who are we? Why are we here? What happens next? Today's conversation is one that touches the heart in a deeply personal way. We're talking about legacy. We're talking about what it means to remember, to honor, and to carry the essence of those we've lost forward into our everyday lives. My guest is Deb Strabel. She's the founder of Lee Alexander and Company, a custom jewelry company inspired by the memory of her beloved brother Lee. Deb's story begins with the tragic loss of her brother Lee, an experience that shaped not only her grief journey, but her entire identity. From the ashes of heartbreak, she created something beautiful, a way for others to wear their stories, to carry memories and express love through intentional handcrafted jewelry. In this episode, we're going to explore what, what makes sibling loss a unique form of grief, grief, how Deb processed that loss over time, and how she chose to honor her brother by naming her business after him. We'll talk about creating and wearing custom jewelry, custom jewelry became a path to healing, and how these tangible pieces can serve as powerful reminders of the people that we've loved and lost. We'll also dive into what legacy truly means. Is it what we leave behind? Or is it what we continue to carry and to create? So whether you're navigating a personal loss, supporting someone who is, or simply interested in how creativity and remembrance intertwine, I think you're going to find deep meaning in today's conversation. And as always, I invite you to continue the conversation at my Substack at grieftogrowth.substack.com. Where I'll be sharing an article about this episode. And I'd love to hear your reflections, your stories, and how you honor the legacies of those you love. And with that, I want to welcome Deb Strabel.

Hi, Brian. Great to be here.

Yeah, it's great to have you here, Deb. And whenever I'm talking to someone who has a loved one who is— who has passed on, the first thing I want to do is honor that person. So tell me about your brother Lee.

I would love to. And also, thank you for that beautiful introduction. That was Lovely. I couldn't have said it better myself. So my story starts about 20 years ago next year. I grew up in a very, I guess, conventional, in what a lot of people would think is a conventional family. My parents have a lovely, wonderful, and loving relationship. I have one brother who Um, was, uh, a little over 3 years younger than me. And, um, we— family was like really big growing up. My mom always made sure that we had dinner together every night and that we had a family day every Sunday. So we grew up very close. Um, him and I fought a lot, uh, as kids. I was not the nicest, um, older sister looking back. Um, but we also had a very close bond. We had a lot of similar interests. Um, so we did spend a lot of time together, whether or not that was our choice. Um, and then as we got older, we definitely became closer. Um, and our interests merged a little bit. We definitely stopped grief, um, bickering. Uh, and then, um, I turned 18 and I was going to college locally, so I moved, into an apartment in town. Um, and we still, you know, saw each other on a regular basis and kept in touch. He would have been about 15. Um, and then, um, I, I was, I was snowboarding, um, for my gym credit in college, and it was a terrible day outside. Um, and I, um, so we ended up leaving the slopes and going back to the college, and I was in the library, and I remember at one point having this like crazy chill come over me that I've never experienced since, um, or before that. Um, and I said to my friend, like, did it get like super cold in here? And she was like, I don't know what you're talking about. I'm like, all right, like, that was really weird. I'm like, to my core freezing. And then I sort of moved on. And about an hour later, I went outside and I had a voicemail and it was a message from the police. And they said, come to the hospital. Something happened to your brother and your dad wants you to be there. And I was like, oh my God. Like, I can think of no other, I can think of no other, um, outcome, then he has died. So we speed to the hospital. We pass our high school where he was a freshman— no, sophomore. And there's an ambulance out front. And I was like, I don't know what that means, but I'm just— I'm convinced he's dead. And we arrive at the hospital. I go to the desk. I'm like trying to talk to them. And I remember looking to my right and I see my dad like through a door in this like little window in the door. And I see his face. And, you know, that kind of confirmed everything. So, um, it, it was completely shocking. He, um, he was in class, he was in a theater class, and he just dropped. Um, and it ended up being something called myocarditis, which is a virus of his heart. So just a virus that made its way to his heart. And otherwise he was a perfectly healthy teenager, um, and that changed my life forever.

Absolutely. I'm so sorry for that. Um, so it's, it's actually really reminds me kind of my, my daughter's story. My daughter Shayna was 15 when she passed, and it was a, it was a sudden thing. Uh, and my other daughter Kayla is 3 years older, so they were, they were 18 and 15. So you're I can't even imagine the, the shock. And you said— it's interesting, you said you had this idea that he was dead, but at 18 and 15, had you ever even had a thought like that before?

No, I had never had a thought like that. I, I think it was just the idea that it was the police who called me.

Yeah.

Um, and I, I may have called them back, actually, now that I think about it. I think I called the number back and They wouldn't give me any information. Um, my mom was in California on a business trip that she had just arrived in Huntington. So, um, she got this, you know, terrible phone call and had to come home. Um, yeah, I don't know why I knew. I have no idea why that was my thought. I had never experienced anything like that before. I don't think I've been to a funeral.

Yeah, I, again, I can't at 18. My daughter was 18. She was actually, Kayla was on vacation. So she was in South Carolina with friends when it happened. So I had to make the phone call to her and, you know, she had to fly back home. So I'm seeing, you know, a lot of parallels here.

Yeah.

Um, the thing is, you know, I've, I've, I've experienced a loss of a daughter and I've talked to a lot of people that experienced a loss of a spouse or a parent. There's something I think different about sibling loss. So describe what that was like for you.

Um, so, you know, in the aftermath, it was everyone shows up, right? And you have like all of these people that you know and love that are trying to help in the next few days until the service. But then after the service happens, um, everyone leaves.

Yeah.

And my parents, like, there was so much support for my parents, you know, because this was just so crazy and Lee was involved in the community a lot. He was in, um, an improv class and he was in the school production. I, I think there was a production in process at the time that he was a part of. Um, he had so many friends. We have huge, wonderful families. Like, um, there was a lot of, of, um, blah blah going on. And then everyone left. And my parents had this wonderful, you know, support of their friends. Um, but every We— I remember we went to this, um, there was some sort of, um, memorial ceremony that was held locally. I'm not sure what the context of it was, looking back, so much as a blur. Um, but my parents were being talked about, my brother was being talked about, the experience was being talked about, but they definitely left out the fact that he had a sibling. And I remember sitting at the table by myself because my parents were being honored somewhere like up towards the front of like a stage sort of thing. And I'm sitting there like, oh my gosh, like, I feel so invisible. I had been so deeply affected by this, not just because I lost Lee, which is huge, but I also like didn't realize that you could just drop dead. And so I'm questioning everything. And it really, it, it, it changed every piece of me physically, mentally, emotionally. And, and it was really hard because I just, I did feel a bit alone, I think, in comparison, my parents were amazing. They were incredibly supportive. They, you know, tried to put me into grief therapy and all of this stuff. Um, but I don't know, there it, it was this unique feeling. And other people who shared this, because I did know a few other people who did lose a sibling, they had other siblings. And I think that's so helpful. Like, I found myself like, why did my parents just have two kids? If I had another person here, they would understand what I'm going through, but I'm just alone. I'm an only child now. Um, and my parents, who obviously also didn't know that this was something they needed to be worried about, turned their attention to me and then were constantly terrified that something would happen to me. And so I kept thinking the same thing, um, not just for my own sake, but if something happens to me, then like, what about my parents? Um, and so it was like this crazy dynamic that developed early on. Where I felt huge pressure, um, and also fear, right?

Yeah, that, that thought that comes in your mind that, you know, anything could happen at any time, I could, I can imagine becomes a, a very pervasive thought. And, you know, when you talked about being an only child, I remember my, my daughter Kayla said that, and it just broke my heart when she said, you know, now I'm an only child, um, So there's that, you know, as you said, it changes everything about like who you are. You go from being a big sister to being an only child. And, you know, as a parent, you want to be there for your child that's still here. But you're, you know, we get so— we want to honor the one that passed too, right? So that we want to, like in our house, we put pictures up and stuff. So did you experience that where your parents were like putting a lot of attention into Lee after he passed.

Stay with us. We'll be right back.

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You know, I, I'm not sure. Um, I don't think— I don't— when I look back, that's not necessarily a feeling that I identify with. I didn't, I didn't feel like they, um, they didn't add photos. We had so many family photos around, they, they really didn't, um, you know, turn their attention to that. I think they, um, they were very— they were— I think it was almost the opposite, like, uh, And they, they honored him. I mean, they, they went to therapy immediately. Um, all kinds of therapy in our family at that time. Um, and so I'm very grateful at how they handled it really. When I look back, that's not feeling neglected by them or overlooked by them is not a feeling that I recall. Which is great. So I feel like they did a very good job of like balancing, um, how we moved forward.

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's, that's a hard thing, you know, and that's, that's a great thing that your parents were, you know, able to do that because sometimes, um, you know, it's not intentional, but people will just again spend so much time and effort on, on the one that's gone, and sometimes the one that's left feels a little bit, you know, invisible. Um, but you talked about, I guess, maybe the people around you, like, they kind of tended to help your parents. And, um, so that, that feeling— so when you went, I'm just curious, when you went back to college, what was that like for you, that experience of, of going back and, and telling people what had happened?

And I went to school, um, I started at a community college for what was going to be 2 years and then was going to transfer Um, and so I didn't have to tell a lot of people because we're a smaller community and, um, a lot of people knew. So I luckily did not have to share that information. They already knew. Um, my guidance counselor at my community college was a longtime family friend, and so, you know, he helped handle things at my school. I ended up having to go for, um, an extra semester, if I can recall, um, or I guess dropping for that, that semester, which meant I went for a couple, an extra year at the other— I went, I transferred to another college, um, but it, it, you know, I tried to continue with school, which was kind of crazy, you know. I took like a, a brief bereavement period and then was like, you know, I can, I can do this. But no, no, I mean, it was, it was kind of a nightmare when I look back at like the pain and anxiety. I was just mentally just messed up. And so I definitely needed extra time to figure that out. But I did have a lot of people around me who, who knew what happened. I think it was that a lot of them didn't know what to say. And they didn't know how to react, which I understand because even now, um, when someone around me loses somebody, it's just every situation's so different. Every situation, even if there's like so many parallels.

Yeah.

Everyone grieves so differently. And, and so I, I understand that. At, that there's no right thing to say other than, I'm so sorry, can I bring you food? Um, can I sit with you? Um, but I, I definitely felt from, you know, I guess a community standpoint or something, like everybody was like, how are your parents? How are your parents?

Right.

And I was like, well, they're, you know, they're struggling. I'm struggling too.

Sure. Yeah, again, I just, as I look at you, I see, I see my daughter. And I remember she was, she was a freshman, uh, in college, and my, my Shayna passed the year between her freshman year and her sophomore year. And we were like, well, maybe take a year off, you know, just stay home for a while. But she was, she was just turning 18 actually when Shayna passed. I guess she was 18. Um, she was like, I want to go back to school. I just want to be normal. But she didn't want to tell the— she didn't want to tell the kids at her school. And she went to school 3 hours away. But she was like, I don't want to be the, the girl with the dead sister, was the way that she put it. And this was, this was 10 years ago, so it's completely different now. But I think sometimes kids want to just like— I want to just go back to, to quote, normal as soon as possible. And as, as adults, we have to understand that, you know, at 18, you grieve differently than we do at the ages that some of us are.

Absolutely. Yeah, 18-year-old Deb was a completely different person. Although, you know, I think a lot of that is attributed to what happened. I didn't mind talking about it. I mean, I, I wanted to keep his memory alive. I felt like this was good information for people to know about me because again, it I was, I was unpredictable, unpredictably different than before. I didn't know what that meant. I just knew that I was a different person at that point. And I didn't mind sharing this story. I mean, it's such a shocking story. Sometimes I would find myself telling the story and go, is it me? Is this my story? Because Why? Like, how did this happen? I, I had this just such a traditional upbringing and I hadn't had a lot of obstacles at that point of, you know, just very average in every way. Yeah. And this was not average. This was just this curveball that I, I just didn't know could be thrown. So I didn't mind that other people knew this.

Yeah, that's the thing. You know, it comes in out of the blue. And it's one of those things you think happens to other people. You know, we know that it happens, but it doesn't happen, you know, in our household. So that, that, that lack of feeling of safety. So how did you— how have you navigated that, that feeling like, like you said, the responsibility, your parents, maybe a little bit of hypervigilance, which we went through with my daughter Kayla. So How did you guys go through that?

Well, I— looking back, it's really interesting because on one hand, I felt this, like, immense pressure to make sure I was very safe. And so anytime I was in a car with somebody, I was like, remember, like, my mom would text me and be like, tell them that they have precious cargo. So, you know, I'd be like, listen, you have a big responsibility. Please don't kill us. And I'm 18. So, you know, every time your 18-year-old is on the road, terrifying. Yeah, yeah. Um, and I, I feel like on one hand there was recklessness in a way, which is, which is weird, but I was like, not to a point where I felt like I was in danger. I don't look back and think like, oh, that was a really dangerous situation, other than like driving too fast or trusting a couple people that I maybe shouldn't have trusted. I didn't go on like some sort of like really reckless binge of, you know, partying or anything like that. But I was like really wanting to maintain a, a normal experience. I had been so looking forward to college. I really had a wonderful high school experience and I just wanted to, to be normal while balancing the fact that my parents were like so worried about me. They couldn't get in contact with me. They were very nervous. I remember one time I was at a party around the block from my parents' house and something happened. Oh, I had a bunch of missed calls and I finally was able to answer these calls. And it was that a police officer showed up at my parents' house and my mom immediately thought that I died. I mean, and so, but all it was is that some on the block, there was a break-in or there was some— something was called in and the police were just checking to see if everything's okay. But I remember my mom, like, absolutely broke down and couldn't get a hold of me. And I felt so guilty that she couldn't immediately get a hold of me to say, like, no, I'm fine. I'm just at this person's house over here. And so that was terrible. But I don't remember it lasting too incredibly long, that stage. I remember, like, you know, again, therapy for us was so, so helpful. We all went to different therapies. My mom tried to do, like, family therapy together and separately. I did not find that helpful. And I don't think it was the grief therapy itself. I think it was the therapist wasn't a good match for me. I remember her telling me, like, sometimes you'll cry, sometimes I'll cry, and sometimes we'll cry together. And I was like, I can't deal with you, Brian. That is not going to work for me. Yeah. Because I was like, this isn't, this isn't gonna work. And then, but I had this trauma where I started having panic attacks. I started, I started having panic attacks. I started just, I was convinced that I was going to drop dead. I mean, and statistics meant nothing, right? So people would be like, the likelihood of XYZ. And I'm like, the likelihood means nothing because what's the likelihood of a perfectly healthy 15-year-old old, just dying. So I don't subscribe to that thought process. And now I'm afraid that like the most unthinkable thing will happen at any time. So I ended up going to, you know, a different therapist. And I got— I had EMDR, which is Eye Movement Rapid— no, I don't remember what it stands for. EMDR.

Yeah. Eye movement desensitization, I think, something.

Yes, something like that. And I will say, like, it helped me so much because I kept— every time I thought about seeing my dad in the window at the hospital, I just couldn't. Yeah, it, it, it took me out of wherever I was and just put me into a panic state. So, um, I used EMDR with, with a different— with a, you know, with a different kind of therapist, a regular therapist that I had started seeing And it helped right away. I mean, I could then have that thought without breaking down, which was a huge relief. My dad also was traumatized because he was the first one at the hospital and he was with my brother. I actually did not see my brother. I was asked, like, do you want to see him one last time? And I said, I don't. I want to remember him as I do. And the idea of seeing him not alive anymore was just too much. And I don't regret that. I feel, you know, I don't feel like that would have— I don't know what would have happened if I did make that decision, but I feel okay with, with it.

Yeah.

Um, and, um, and I, I feel like I, I changed so much after, after all of that happened. Um, prior to him passing, I feel like, you know, I'm a millennial. We watched a lot of, of teen movies which were, you know, had a kind of a formulaic approach where, you know, there's high school and there's cliques and there's cool kids and there's the not cool kids and there's the importance of, of being cool. And I think that that was— that having friends and being seen as like a cool person those were— it was a very high priority for me over success in school. Um, I didn't— I, I had a wonderful family, but I don't know that I ever, um, realized how lucky I was to have that family. And I don't think I was grateful to have that family. I was just like, whatever, cool. Like, of course I have this family. It's again what you see in portrayed in movies. And in, you know, I was very average in a lot of these areas. And after he passed, I became so much more feminine. I think after, after I had the therapy, after I really worked on myself after the initial grief period, because I don't think— I'm not sure that anyone can, can really become this enlightened person right after something like that happens. It's like a very long period period of time where I had to work through some, some crazy things, and my body like revolted. I had health problems pop up. I had no idea that could happen, that like a trauma or a death could then affect your health that way. You know, it was just all over the place. But, you know, a couple of years later, I found myself— I found that I had completely reprioritized everything. My, my relationship with my parents, I feel, was so much better. My mom and I used to butt heads like crazy. I'm a very hard-headed, strong-willed individual, and I'm not someone who enjoys taking no for an answer, especially when I was a teenager. So after, after Lee's passing, knowing that your whole world can just end at any time, on one hand was the curse that I had to figure out how to navigate because nobody could say like, it's not true. No one could say like, no, nothing's gonna happen. That's just not something that, that exists. The only thing you can do is say, well, it's not likely to happen, so worrying about it's not gonna do anything. And like, How, how can you prepare yourself or how can you live your life in a way that says like, okay, anything can happen at any time. So my relationship with my parents became incredible. Um, and I made sure that every time I spoke to any loved one, friend, family, whatever, I was very clear about my feelings with them, um, in a loving way. Yeah. Um, because I pictured, you know, every conversation could be the last conversation. Um, and it changed everything. It changed everything about me.

So in terms of your, your parents' relationship with each other, without getting too personal, there's— there is a— it's a myth that when parents lose a child, that it drives them apart. And some people think their divorce rate is like 80% or something for parents who lose a child. Again, that's a myth, so I want to put that to rest. But how would you say your parents' relationship— it sounds like your parents, your relationship with your parents improved. What was your perception of their relationship with each other?

I had heard about that myth, and I didn't know it was a myth, so I was terrified. Um, and when I was around them, if they would be, you know, if they argued with each other, I did find that they— I felt like they were arguing more. I didn't live at home either, so I wasn't with them all the time, but I did feel like they were arguing more, and maybe that was just my perception because I was so sensitive to it.

Yeah.

Not that they argued a lot and they didn't have an unhealthy way of communicating necessarily, but, um, I was terrified that they were going to get divorced. I remember on a road trip one time, my parents were were arguing and my dad got out to get gas and it came up like somehow my mom was like, she like knew. I don't know if I voiced my fear. Um, but my mom was like, you know, we're okay. Like we're not, we're not going to break up. And she might've said it's a myth, you know, because I think I was very scared.

Yeah. There's a lot of fear. There's a lot of fear that comes up with, with this, you know, And the— again, the worst thing that we can think of that could never happen happens. Like you said, it kind of takes all the— you can throw the rule book out the window, right? I could just drop dead at any moment. Um, I used to have panic attacks when I was young, and one of the things I would tell myself was, well, I'm too young to actually die. But when you see somebody 15, and, and it's— and, you know, I'm sure you know this now, it's not as unheard of as people think it is. You know, my daughter was 15 when she passed away. I've heard of kids in their kitchen at the age of 10 that just suddenly passed away. And unfortunately, it's a reality of life, which doesn't seem fair. It doesn't seem right. But, you know, it does happen. And when it does, we have to change everything we think about the world.

Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy.

So you went ahead and finished school. And then you had a career after that. What did you, what did you do after that? What was your, what's your major?

So my parent, this is, this is an interesting tidbit. So, um, my parents are, um, they, they have, or they had, um, a wealth management firm. So they did, uh, financial planning, investments, insurance. They have had clients for, I mean, well over 30 years. Um, work with them. They, you know, try to make sure that everyone, you know, that their, their clients have this like amazing plan in every aspect that they've like, you know, accounted for. And they work with them throughout their lives until retirement. And, and they were great at it. You know, they, they love their clients. They are very well educated around these subjects. They kept up with the education. And they really cared about the people they were working with. And it was my dad's dream for me to do this. So I worked at their firm, um, on and off when I was a kid. Uh, you know, I would like have a little afterschool job. Um, and then I would say, I don't want to do this. And my dad's like, well, you're not doing what I do. You're filing. Filing is terrible. And I'd be like, okay. And you know, that kept happening through life where he's like, you know, you would be a great financial planner. You know, you're really great with people and you're passionate and you care. And all of those things made sense to me. So I'd be like, okay, okay. But then I would like think about it more and be like, but I don't really like money. I don't like thinking about money. I don't, I don't, I don't want to have to have that piece, which is a really important piece to understand the ins and outs of the technical, the technical side of like insurance and wealth management and all of that stuff. It's really important. And I couldn't stand it. So, and then my, and then later in, in high school, my dad said, you know, I will, I will very much help pay for college if you go for financial planning. And I was like, oh man, I want to go into advertising or something. And, but I was like, you know what, fine, I'll do it. And, and college, you know, I had the, I had a great college experience. It was after high school that I sort of learned how to learn, um, which, you know, doing your homework, really important, it turns out. So, um, I, I, I became a much better student. I graduated with a, a business degree with a big focus in financial planning. That's like, I think part of the degree program. That was my major. Mm-hmm. Um, did internships at several different firms that were not my parents' firm. Um, but while I was in high school or college, I'm sorry, uh, the 2008 crash happened and I had been interning for that summer at my parents' firm. So I saw the worst of the worst. It was probably my dad's worst nightmare. Not just that this happened because of all the, you know, the way that his clients were reacting and the way that, you know, I mean, I'm sure every financial advisor and every person who has money in the in the market was just freaking out. Yeah. Um, so I watch all this take place and my dad must have been like, oh my gosh, I can't believe that she chose now to be an intern watching this nightmare.

Right.

Um, it was terrible. I think that really sealed it, watching my parents just try to navigate this situation. I think they both became substantially more gray and I was like, I could not handle this responsibility. I don't feel like this is what my passion is. And I think that's when I was like, yeah, I don't think I want to do this. And so I didn't really know what to do with myself. I mean, I did work at some financial services firms. I still pursued it just for a lack of not knowing what to do when I thought maybe the passion would come after I fully understand the work. Um, but, uh, it never— it just never became something that I loved. Um, and it's so interesting when I look back, um, that my dad wanted me to do this family business. It was really important to him. They had built up this wonderful company and he just wanted to be like, right here, right here is this great position. I will teach you everything. And I was like, I really don't want to do it. Um, and simultaneously, after Lee passed, um, you know, my parents, my parents got an urn, but I was at college. And so the biggest thing for me was I was like, well, what am I supposed to do? Like, I have a sweatshirt of his, you know, but like, I don't have a piece of him. I know he's in this urn, but I, it didn't compute in my brain. I felt like I wanted something with me, and that's when I found out about memorial jewelry. Excuse me. I didn't know that was a thing. I didn't know about anything surrounding death, um, and I found out about memorial jewelry that like really fit what I was looking for, um, but like I couldn't find anything I liked, uh, it was all very inexpensive because it was made of like, you know, it silver, and there was a screw and a little place to put the ashes, and they screwed it closed. Uh, I didn't really like any of the designs, but again, the point was that I wanted him with me when I left for college, which I was a couple hours away when I transferred. So a bunch of us got pieces. My parents were like, oh, that's, that's a good idea. And a bunch of us got these pieces, um, and I wore it a lot. Again, I didn't love how it looked, but it was really important to me to have him with me. Sure. But then I got into a hot tub one day, and next thing I know, the whole thing is just green. It is ruined. And, you know, it's a screw, so there's no way that, like, water didn't get into it. And that was devastating to me. So I had, you know, I talked to my parents about it., and we acknowledged like, okay, we want something long-term. They're willing to pay for it. Because again, I was a college student. We went to a local jeweler and had pieces made for us. And, um, and okay, great. Like now I have something more substantial that I can feel comfortable with. Again, it wasn't completely what I, what I wanted, but the concept was there. Now I didn't have to worry about something terrible happening to it. And at some point we were like, you know, there must be other people. Who want something that'll last a really long time and that they actually, like, really love the design of and they feel really connected with. And so my parents decided to start— well, we decided, but I was at college and I didn't have any ability to, like, really work with them at the time. But they started this group with a designer and a couple other people who helped start this business. And so it became sort of like, oh, Maybe I can do something with this. Maybe I don't have to do financial planning and I can still be part of a family business. I can work for this jewelry company. Um, that was, you know, kind of my brainchild in the first place anyway. And, um, and I was passionate about the idea. And what's funny is that I immediately regretted it before we had ever made a sale. You know, we were sort of like, okay, what do we have to do to make this business known? How do we get our first customer? Well, blogs were starting to be a thing. This is like back in, I don't know, 2014 or '15 when I kind of joined into what they were doing. And I found myself surrounded by death. So instead of like the responsibility of the financial planning side of things where you have to be like responsible for people's well-being, really, if something terrible or you miscalculate something, like you could really mess up the future of someone. And that pressure seemed really immense. And then we go over here and I was like, oh my gosh, now I'm just thinking about death. Now I'm just completely thrown into the world of death. And I already am in the world of death. That is my brain after this happened. I was like, this isn't going to work. But I worked through that and And it turned out that I wasn't surrounded by death. In fact, I would say, um, there was just some— once people started, once we, once we had our, you know, first couple of sales and I, and I got the response from people about how just grateful and thankful they were to have something so beautiful and, um, important. And how, I don't know, it just seemed to bring a lot of people some sort of closure, some sort of positive feeling in their journey. And I was like, that's it, I figured it out, that's what I want to do. Um, yeah, and here we are.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I understand what you're saying because sometimes people ask me, like, with what I do, they're like, doesn't that bring you down being around, you know, people talking about death all day? And I'm like, no, absolutely not, you know, because it is It is that legacy that people— you know, you've created a legacy, or you're creating a legacy with your brother Lee, and you're helping other people to create and preserve the legacies of their loved ones. So it's very honorable work that you're doing.

Thank you. Thank you. It feels like it. I didn't think so. I just didn't realize the impact. I knew how I felt. You know, I have— I have a ring now that like one of our original designs, when we haven't had a new designer, I actually was able to participate in the design process, which I wasn't able to do the, the second time, I guess, because not the first cheap piece, but the next piece. I, I didn't identify with it in terms of the style, but it, it was a better quality. But we went to another person who was able to really work with me one-on-one and create a design that like really spoke to me. I chose an aquamarine stone, um, for— and this is funny— a lot of my customers, um, they, they focus a lot on birthstones, um, have having some sort of meaning to the month that they were born or they died. And even if they don't like the color.

Yeah.

And so I thought that was interesting because I actually chose an aquamarine because my brother and I shared this unbelievable love of the water, of the ocean. And so it reminded me of him. It reminded me of us. And that's it. That's the only reason. That's a great reason. Yeah. So I encourage people, you know, you don't need to pigeonhole yourself. The person that you're memorializing, if they're somewhere, because I have no idea, but if they're somewhere and they can see you, they're not They want you to be happy. They want you to have something that makes you feel joy. And so if you find that the birthstone that, that, you know, matches their birthday isn't your style, don't feel like you have to do that or you're not honoring them appropriately. And I hope people realize that because I think they do put a lot of stock into you know, connecting it to something like a birthstone. Not that there's anything wrong with doing that. I mean, it's a beautiful thing. And if— and many people are happy doing that.

Sure.

But I just want people to feel more empowered to, you know, whatever, whatever brings them the most joy when remembering their loved one. I think that's the most important, important part of it. But having a— having my own ring. Um, there's something, there's something about having him on my finger. I don't know what it is because I don't, I don't feel— I'm not, I'm not a person that feels like if I don't have this with me, he's not with me. Um, I don't feel like this is something that everyone needs to have in order to have their loved one with them. Like, however people desire to remember, uh, and to honor It's such a personal experience. There's no right or wrong way. But I love it. I love that every time I look at my hand, I think of him. If I'm not— I mean, he's always there, but I think of him even more. I mean, he's like against my finger in a way. And I think about, you know, it brings me luck. Like if I'm doing something important, I put it, put it on my finger and I'm like, you know, be with me and help me navigate this thing that I have to do. Um, and I don't know, it's a feeling of closeness that I can't describe that was so important for me to achieve. And having it is so special. Um, and so I want anyone looking for that to feel that way too.

Yeah, I think it's, I think it's wonderful. You know, we all, I think we all want to find ways to carry our loved ones with us in a sense. And I remember when, when my daughter passed, you know, we were like, you have the choice between cremation and burial, and some people choose burial. We chose cremation because one of the things I did not want to be tied to a physical location if we ever decided to move or whatever. It's like, just, just that was my— that was our decision, right? And so there's— we have pictures, we have other things we can do, but having a piece of jewelry, as you said, it's not them, but it's a reminder of them. It's a token of them that you can have with you, you know, constantly. I can see the appeal for that. So we talked about, you know, some of the shortcomings and some of the other jewelry you looked at, which you didn't like about. Tell me about the process of working with Lee Alexander and Company. If I come to the website, how do I start? What's the process?

So we have, um, uh, a variety of designs that are, that are ready to, um, be purchased. Uh, now they're— they don't exist yet, so everything on our website, um, is the design that you would get. Uh, but we make every piece to order. So we have people that come to our website and go, you know, I love this piece, I love this necklace, it has these in it, that's what I want, and they can purchase. And then from there, um, we have a kit that we send to them with instructions and we collect the littlest bit of ashes, you know, uh, to put inside cuz they're very small pieces. Um, they send it back to us with this, with a label that we provide and we, you know, go to production. They, at that point they can, or when they're purchasing, they can, you know, personalize it with a little symbol. We have a symbol. It's an— our logo is also an infinity symbol. So a lot of people really like that. Or they can do initials or they can do a different symbol. We have a lot of options because a lot of people memorialize pets or, you know, there's something that resonates with them that they want on that piece. And so we can add that on to the design that we already have very easily. And so the process is about 4 to 6 weeks. Uh, sometimes we can do it a lot faster depending, um, and, uh, but it's usually within that time period. Um, and so once we get the ashes back, we, we fill up the piece that we had in production while we were waiting for that kit to come back. Um, and we, uh, we fill the little chamber. It's a, it's small, um, it's a small chamber within each piece. We fill to the top with the ashes or, you know, uh, pet hair, you know, locks of hair, um, sand, earth, t-shirt, anything that brings somebody, uh, a feeling of closeness to their loved one. Pretty much we will accept and put into a piece of jewelry as long as we can get it to be small enough. Um, and then we, uh, seal it with a laser welder so that it is completely and totally sealed. You will need to, um, you will need to have the intention to unseal it, um, and probably need help doing that. Like, I couldn't do it. I don't think I could get this open. Yeah, I would need help. Um, and so when we finish, we send it back along with any of the material that's left. Um, We send it insured back to the customer. If somebody went to our website and they were like, you know, I like this piece, but I wish it was different, or beautiful pieces, but nothing that fits what I want. We, we work with customers all the time to either alter designs or create something completely new. Um, we, we really want to accommodate. Um, and so as long as we feel confident in the strength of the piece, so as long as like, you know, we, we really won't make something that we fear will fall apart. Um, unless it's insisted upon, like we are very clear, like this design, we would do XYZ to make it stronger. Because we want it to last for generations. We want our pieces to be passed down so that the person's legacy, their memory, they'll be talked about. It's a physical thing that, you know, when I pass it down to my daughter someday, we'll talk about her Uncle Lee. And I mean, she'll know all about him and just know that there's a little piece of him in here. So we make sure that we're very clear about you know, this is a piece we're confident in, or we're, we're worried that this piece has some issues. And sometimes customers are like, you know, I want what I want and it's fine with me and I'll be careful. And we're like, okay. But typically, you know, we can make some adjustments to make sure that it fits into that long-lasting category. But yeah, really, we can do almost anything. Okay, we can do almost anything. Um, the sole purpose for us is to fit something super, super special permanently into a piece of jewelry. Um, and so we only work with certain materials like, um, platinum and 18-karat and 14-karat gold. And, um, and then we, you know, we can accept almost any stone as long as we can— as long as we can find it. And, um, and that it's not too soft. You know, like a pearl in a ring might be something that's dangerous. It'll— it's a very soft stone. So we help navigate how to find a stone that works, that will last for a long time, because we just really don't want anyone to find themselves in the position that we were in where, you know, your, your most important piece of— a, a important piece of— an important piece of jewelry is, uh, is broken, that I think it's a much more emotional process if that were to happen with this kind of jewelry than anything else.

That's awesome. I love that. So, and remind me, how long has it been since your brother passed?

He passed in 2006. It's going to be 20 years next year. Yeah.

So what do you— you mentioned earlier, you said you don't know where our loved ones are for sure. But what are your thoughts? What do you think Lee would think about where it is you are now, almost 20 years later, and how his legacy has been carried on?

That's a great question. I think he would be entertained by the fact that he is such a prominent part of my life. He was a very funny and sweet kid. Um, and he was very sarcastic. And so, um, I think he would be like, I'm glad you found your passion and, and I'm so honored that you're doing this for me, but I also, you know, haha, I am, I am so much a part of your life every day. I bet you didn't think that would be the case. Um, But I, I don't know, I imagine that he, if, if he's consciously around me somewhere, that he would be very honored and, and happy to see like us helping other people in this, in this way.

Yeah.

Um, yeah, he was very empathetic. Um, and I think he would just be happy that I found a lot of positive ways to deal with his departure, um, in helping people and in my own life and how I navigate my everyday. I think he'd really, um, I think he'd be happy about that.

Yeah, I think it's truly amazing. We think sometimes, you know, of the impact where our lives are going to have. And we think, oh, my life is not going to have that much of an impact. And you think about a 15-year-old passing away in high school. And there's a lot of times there's a fear that people have that some— they're going to forget my loved one, people are going to forget. And I love this story because it shows that, you know, you go back 19 years ago, and nobody could have envisioned what your life was going to look like today. And I love your thing about, you know, Lee's like, like getting a kick out of it, right? Because I think, I, I think, I think that we do know that when we're on the other side, we do kind of have a plan. But on this side, we have no clue. And, uh, it's just a great example of don't worry about your loved one being forgotten. Don't worry about you being forgotten, that you could have a bigger impact than you can even possibly imagine. And you're what you're doing now is having an impact on people. They're buying that jewelry. That's going to— that's going to be a legacy in and of itself.

Yeah, I, I truly didn't realize, I think until really a few years ago, I didn't realize the impact. You know, it was like it is, it is a service and it is a special piece. But it wasn't until I started receiving these phone calls after people received their piece, um, their pieces. I would get, I, I would get these phone calls where, and I worked very closely with my customers. I think that's part of it. Like a lot of my customers, I get to know pretty well. We are communicating throughout the entire process. I'm checking in with them to make sure that like things look right. Um, I'm giving them updates and I, and they've often told me their story. So I know something very intimate about them. Right. And so oftentimes, like, we do form somewhat of a relationship over, you know, the time that they are a customer, especially if they're making a custom piece of jewelry, because that's a, that's a very in-depth process to, to have an idea in your head and not necessarily know how to communicate it. We work back and forth a lot to be like, is this, is this right? That's what you thought about, you know, And so on the other side of that, I'm anxiously waiting for them to receive the piece and to hear their thoughts because the last thing I want is for someone to get their piece and go, oh, like, this isn't— that's my, probably my biggest fear in this business is that they receive a piece and they're like, well, this isn't, this isn't what I wanted. Which has happened twice. And when that happens, then it becomes my goal then is to go, okay, How do we fix it? And so we've, we've taken both of those pieces back and, and gone, okay, let's rework this. Let's think about this again and see where we went wrong. And then, um, and then the, the, um, I get so, um, I get so much, um, satisfaction when the second time around they're like, got it. This is it. You did it. You figured it out. Thank you for sticking with me. You know, because I just would hate— I want this experience in the world of darkness that they are in. I want to provide an experience that is light. I want to make sure that every step of the way is as easy as possible and that on the other side of it, they are so happy that they did this, that they chose us for something so important. I, I, I just want people to, to, to love us forever. And, um, and so to get— I, I didn't realize the impact necessarily. I, I knew this was a special thing, um, but until I started receiving these calls in the last couple of years where my customers were just— they sounded very sad, I will say that, you know, they're they're crying, they're crying. And that's, that's something that I didn't want to cause, but they're crying tears of gratitude. And they're just trying to express this, that they never envisioned how, how great this would feel like, that it would partially fill this hole in their heart. You know, they know I can't bring their loved one back. They know that I can't change the circumstance. But this made them feel so much better and more relieved than they, I think, even realized when they began the process. Mm-hmm. Uh, and I began to live for that. So anytime I meet a new customer, I'm like, that is my goal. My goal is to have you just be so incredibly happy on the other side. Obviously, I guess happy is a loaded word because every customer I have is going through something. And even if they lost a loved one some time ago and they're just getting to memorialize them, we have a lot of people who like couldn't, could not think about doing something like this immediately after they lost their loved one or didn't know this existed, but they've always had these ashes. Somewhere and wanted to do something with them and found us eventually years later, I think it brings up old feelings. I think it, you know, kind of pushes them back into this, into this feeling of grief. But to, to have somebody call me and express this overwhelming gratitude about something that I've done, it's not, it's not an experience that I'd ever had before. Yeah, I, you know, I've Tried to be a good friend and, you know, person in people's lives, be there for them when they're going through hard times, be a sounding board. But nothing I've ever done before this brought about that reaction. And I think it just— I realized like this is what it's like when people say like, you know, this is my calling. Um, I never understood that. I never understood what it was like to like know what you should be doing in life. That was not a thing that I— it was always like, oh, I could be doing this. You know, when I was little, I was like, I'll be a dolphin trainer. And when I got a little older, like, I'll make commercials. And I was just really all over the place in terms of what I wanted to do with my life. But it wasn't until I had an impact on people's lives to the extent that they expressed to me that I was like, this is everything.

Yeah.

And so really, every new customer I have, I'm like, it's an opportunity to make your life just a tiny bit better. And I want to do that.

Yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. I love your passion. I love the legacy that you've created for, again, your family legacy, the thing that the things you're doing. And, you know, I hope this podcast will inspire other people to figure out what is my thing, what is my place. And you're not going to know it right away. As you said, you know, you didn't know this at 18. You're not going to. But it's just trust in the process that you're going to get there. So Deb, we're coming to the end of our time. Remind people of where they can find you, the website, and if people want to reach out to you, if they can reach out to you personally. Sure.

Um, so our website is leealexanderandco.com, um, all spelled out in Word. Um, and, uh, there's, you know, a form on the page. There's an email on the page, um, info@leealexanderandco.com. Um, I am on the other side of that, so they'd be reaching me. Um, and, you know, we're on, we're on Facebook and Instagram and all that good stuff. Um, so, you know, if this is something that people are looking for or know someone who could be looking for something like this, you know, a high-quality piece of very personalized, uh, memorial jewelry, um, that, that we're here and, and we're ready to help. But I also want to remind people, like, there is— there are so many ways that you can honor your loved one, and, and I encourage people to, like, you know, like look into that world. One crazy thing I did in this, after starting this company, was we went to a Funeral Association conference, and that was bonkers. The experience was incredibly overwhelming for many, many reasons. But one thing I got to see was like all of the different ways that people to memorialize their loved one. There are a lot of companies there, and there's a lot of really interesting, um, things that can be done with ashes. Um, like there was somebody who did a painting with ashes. There's just whatever, whatever makes you feel, um, a little bit of closure, a little bit of closeness, whatever that thing is, like explore it. And I completely agree with you, Brian D Smith, when you say, like, you know, trust in the process. I think I have, like, become somebody who I wasn't before, but I think I've become somebody who thinks, like, you know, everything maybe does happen for a reason. I'm not a particularly religious person. I'm not a particularly spiritual person. But I think my life has changed so much and so much has happened to lead me to this point to go, you know, maybe maybe there is more to this than I gave credit. Um, and, and I, I don't like to say I'm— I mean, I think that I would have changed everything, you know, if I have an opportunity to go back and save him. And, you know, but I also wonder what kind of person I would be. Where, where would I be in life? I wouldn't have found this. I wouldn't feel, um, so, um, full, I guess. And so there's like a, there is a silver lining that, that I do believe people can find if they can, if they can think about like how, how they can change, how they can live their lives in honor of, of their loved one in a way that their loved one would have appreciated, or, you know, that, that recognizes the um, oh man, what is the word I'm looking for? That recognizes how fragile life is. Yeah. Um, and so how necessary it is to be grateful for, for every moment that you have and every experience you have with your loved ones and to take your opportunities. Like, don't put things off. Don't, don't, you know, just work all of the time and, and think I'll have fun later. Like, Nope. Uh, spend as much time as you can with your loved ones and, and tell them how you feel. Tell them that you love them.

Yeah.

Uh, I think that those changes in me are, um, amazing. I'm so thankful for that. And it made, it really actually helped me deal with the idea that like things could change in an instant because I, I think I, I wouldn't be somebody who goes I regret— I wouldn't regret anything. I wouldn't feel like I regret the last conversation we had, because in our last conversation, even if it was a tumultuous one, I would have finished it with like, well, I love you.

Yeah. Well, I think, um, I am a person to believe that things happen for a reason. And, and I, and I look at people's— I get to hear your life condensed into a 1-hour interview, so I get to see this overarching arch arc of your life, arc of your life. And I, and I get to do this a lot, so I, I see how things kind of come together. And I think the older we get, the more we can, we can appreciate that as we look back. Um, so yeah, I— you're— the lessons that you've learned, the, the, the choices that you made, your family was very intentional about getting therapy and getting help and telling each other you loved and doing the EMDR and all— it's work. I mean, you did the work, but now you're reaping the reward. So it's a beautiful, uh, beautiful thing to observe.

Thank you. Yep. I, I really just want people who are going through this to, to know, like, it's just not, not always going to hurt this much, you know. Be kind to yourself and definitely get help if you, if you need help. And most people need help in this situation. We are not automatically built to navigate something like this. Um, it's okay to find the right help, you know, not everyone is the right help. Um, and I, I am somebody who experienced that too. That was like, you know, maybe I, I, I can't be helped. Um, but it really was like the person that I was going to at the time. And, and so, you know, give yourself grace, give yourself time, expect the unexpected. Um, realize that like grief pops up in every area. Like, I— one of my best friends got married a few years ago, and, um, I think it was like around like 2017 or '18 or something. And, uh, and his sister gave a speech, and I cried my eyes out because all I could think about was that, um, Lee wouldn't be giving a speech at my wedding. Yeah. And my friends must have been like, what's happening? Why is she inconsolably crying right now at this reception. And I didn't realize again how far in the future I could be impacted at any time. But I just think it's important, just remind yourself, you've maybe never been through this before. And even if you have been through it before, it's different. It's different every time. And you just don't know. Give yourself grace. Give yourself— be patient with yourself and know that it will get better.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, Deb, that's, I think, a great way for us to end this afternoon. Thank you for spending your time with me. Thanks for sharing Lee and your company and the things that you're doing. So I encourage people to go check out the website and reach out to Deb if you have any questions.

Thanks so much, Brian D Smith. Thank you for having me, and thank you for doing this wonderful work.

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