Early Tragedy Led Her to Create Holistic Wealth- from Keisha Blair

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All right. Hey everybody, welcome back to Grief 2 Growth. Today I'm honored to have a very special guest with us. She's an award-winning international bestselling author. She's an economist. She's a Harvard-trained policy expert, has been recognized by world leaders for her groundbreaking work. Her name is Keisha Blair. She's the author of the phenomenal book Holistic Wealth Expanded and Updated: 36 Life Lessons to Help You Recover from Disruption, Find Your Life Purpose, and Achieve Financial Freedom. This transformative book has been lauded by CNN senior political analyst Kirsten Power as an essential guide to the art of recovery from disruption. And by iconic actress Kelly Rutherford, who also wrote the foreword. She describes it as game-changing. Keisha is often referred to as the mother of holistic wealth. She's also the founder of the Institute on Holistic Wealth and the driving force behind the holistic wealth movement. Her innovative approach to wealth that extends beyond the financial into the personal and professional realms of life has shifted paradigms and challenged conventional wisdom. Her expertise has set her— has seen her, I should say, as part of the Prime Minister's supporting delegation to the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, and the East Asia Summit in Singapore. Her profound insight and wisdom have featured in The New York Times, Real Simple magazine, Forbes, the Harvard Business Review, Essence magazine, and many others. Her viral article, "My Husband Died at Age 34: Here Are 40 Life Lessons I Learned From It," deeply touched more than 50 million people around the world, and that exhibits the powerful impact of her messages. Her books and her wisdom have also garnered recognition from people like Maria Shriver, the editors of OprahDaily.com, OprahDaily.com, the producers of Jada Pinkett Smith's Red Table Talk, the Laura Coates Show, the producers of Mel Robbins Show, as well as Yahoo Finance's The Final Round. So I'm really honored that Keesha has chosen to be with me today. And with that, I want to welcome Keesha Blair to Grief 2 Growth.

Thank you so much, Brian. It's great to be here. And thank you for that wonderful introduction.

Well, you're quite an impressive person. I appreciate you taking the time to sit down with me today. I'm really looking forward to talking to you about your financial work, but also what led to what you're doing. So first of all, I want to say I'm really sorry about, you know, what happened to your husband. That's something that you and I share, is losing someone very close at an early age. How did that affect you, your life? And did that— is that what led to the work that you're doing?

Yeah, no, absolutely. It had a huge impact on the person I am today, and it's inspired this whole holistic wealth journey and the movement. Uh, you know, he passed away pretty young. He died from a disease that is so rare, most doctors will never see it in their lifetime in a living person, uh, only in textbooks. So it's, it's so rare that 1 in 1 million people get it each year, and it You know, it became a medical mystery when he died quite suddenly. It took 1 year for the autopsy results, and it was just a harrowing process. I remember the night he died, I walked out of the hospital room, and you mentioned that viral article, Brian D Smith. I walked out of the hospital room that night with a white plastic bag with his belongings, some of the most precious things, uh, you know, like his wedding ring. And I remember thinking, you know, those aren't the things that last, you know. What lasts is our legacy, the way we treat others, the more intangible things in life. And as a trained economist who, you know, worked on measuring GDP growth and measuring economic growth, it became very clear to me at that point. I'll never forget, you know, holding that white plastic bag and thinking there has to be more. There is more to this. And so, you know, as I explained in the book, I, you know, I went on a soul-searching journey, and that inspired this holistic wealth framework that I came to develop while on sabbatical, while on leave. But absolutely, like, this whole, um, experience with grief and having to overcome that kind of tragedy has absolutely inspired who I am and the journey and the whole holistic wealth movement and why you know, I came up and coined the term holistic wealth because during the midst of tragedy, it becomes clear, right? And I know, you know, in the midst of tragedy, it becomes clear that, you know, it's, it's how we impact others. It's the legacy we leave, and it's, it's, it's the intangibles, and it's about honoring those who we love in our lives. So that's basically the inspiration behind this movement.

And how long ago was it your husband passed away?

Quite a while. So it's been, what, 14 years to be exact.

Okay.

And, um, you know, quite a lot has happened since then. Uh, so it's, it's taken that long, and I've been working on, you know, writing since then and working on everything, the nuts and bolts of— so this hasn't been overnight by any means. This has been a long process of slugging through grief and coming up with this framework and and really trying to, to educate others and, you know, inspire other, um, people going through this type of a setback that there is hope. So it's, it's, it's, it, it has been a while, and it, it's by no means— I know people hear my story sometimes and think, wow, this is overnight, like, how did you do this overnight? It has been, it's been a long journey.

Yeah, people do want to assign like, oh look, it's, it's, everything was fine, right? But so that's why I like to set that, that expectation for people that we can recover and we can do better. But also, a lot of times we can be very impatient with ourselves, and we'll look at someone like yourself and say, I should be doing what she's doing.

Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. And, and even when I, uh, you know, when it happened, when tragedy struck, it took me a while to even think about, okay, what do I do next? And then I decided to take that one year, you know, pack my things in a 40-foot container, rented my house, sold everything else, you know, took my babies and went on that soul-searching mission. And that was a whole process in itself in terms of the decision to do that, the mechanics of how I did it, what I had to put in place to get there, um, and that year that was transformative for me. So absolutely, I think we need to be patient with ourselves, give the process time There's no one-size-fits-all process in terms of how we grieve, in terms of, you know, what we should be doing when. I often, you know, say to people that, you know, grief, grief is like mushrooms. It just pops up. And, you know, those, you know, things that happen to you along the way make it fertile for that grief to grow. And sometimes you're fine and sometimes you're not. So absolutely giving your time, the space, giving yourself the space and the time to grieve and to figure out next steps is absolutely important.

So I assume you were doing the economic work before your husband passed. Is that true? Is that correct?

Yes, that's correct.

So, and then you took some time to, to kind of reset and then came back. How did it feel when you came back into that work after, after that sabbatical?

Stay with us.

We'll be right back.

You know, one of the hardest things about grief? Most of the people in your life just don't get it. They want you to be further along than you are. They get uncomfortable when you bring it up, so you stop bringing it up. And that's why I started writing. My Substack is where I go deeper. Thoughts I don't always get to on the podcast. Essays on consciousness, on continuing bonds, on what it actually means to carry loss and still build a life. The stuff that used to keep me up at night, written out in a way that I hope meets you in the morning. But here's what I didn't expect when I started it: the community that showed up. People who are doing exactly what you're doing— listening, learning, trying to find their footing. Readers who comment, who share their own stories, who remind each other that none of us are as alone in this as we feel. And that's what the Substack has become— a place to go deeper with me and to find your people. It's free subscribe. Find me at grief2growth.com/substack. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/substack. Or just go to Substack and search for Grief 2 Growth.

I hope to see you there.

It felt different, because I was not the same person who was there before in terms of my mindset, my core values. I was transformed. And I, you know, this impacted my work in a positive way, but also it made me realize certain truths. You know, like I mentioned in the book, like I was on a path to being, you know, um, one of the few leaders chosen to lead the organization, um, going forward. And even though I still went on that path, I realized that there were certain values that were more important to me, uh, this work and my life purpose and my mission in terms of connecting with with people who were grieving and other widows and, you know, children with mentorship and youth. Those were also important. So that made a big impact in terms of, you know, how my career turned out and the decisions that I'd made afterwards, even with writing the book and even with updating the book during COVID-19. So it, it's unbelievable once this happens and you realize that your life purpose is so much greater and so much bigger than that. I mean, some career highlights that you included when you introduced me, Brian D Smith, were after that sabbatical, um, part of the Prime Minister's delegation and supporting delegation. That was after that sabbatical. But still, I really feel like even it influenced my work, the type of advice I was able to give, and leading into this phase of my life that I'm in now with the Institute on Holistic Wealth, coaching women on different forms of trauma, including money trauma, coaching women on grief. Uh, it's influenced that tremendously, and even through the Holistic Wealth Podcast. So, uh, I think, you know, if people are in a point where they're thinking about transitioning, especially after you've been through a tragedy, know that it doesn't have to be in a vacuum. Like, all of your experiences can be used to influence, to make the impact that you want to make. It doesn't have to be one or the other. You can absolutely make the impact within your job, outside of your job, you know, or vice versa. Like, it, it really is that taking that holistic perspective of what you want your life to look like and how you want to channel that grief, you know, just like what you've done, Brian, with your experience. So that's basically how it, it turned out in my own life. But it's, as you said, it's a process. And it takes time. And it's unbelievable that we can all get there, you know, in our own unique way, because we each have stories that are so important to tell and that the world needs. So it's, it's really important.

Yeah.

And I—

you mentioned so much there that I want to dive into, you know, because there's— I know a lot of times when things like this happen, we feel like, okay, my life is just over and I can't Imagine how difficult it must have been for you. You're 34, is a very young age to pass away. You had a couple of young children, I think, at the time. How did that feel? I mean, how did, how did you feel at that time?

Yeah, so he was 34, I was 31. I had just given birth to my second child 8 weeks prior. And I had a near-death experience with my first child, which was 3 years before my husband died. So you can imagine when it happened to me, I was— it, it was horrific. With, with the second pregnancy, um, that was also difficult. And, you know, as I wrote in the book, like, I was not healed physically myself. I had undergone a traumatic, uh, pregnancy like many Black women Um, because of the first one, I'm a maternal near-miss survivor. So for myself personally, in terms of what I was going through physically, that was harrowing in itself. And then to have your husband suddenly pass away, um, not have any answers, not know why— like, to us, he was a healthy 34-year-old running marathons at the peak of his life, a great dad, a great husband. And it was just a huge, huge loss. It was a shock to my system. I remember losing 40 pounds in like 2 weeks. I couldn't eat, my stress levels were so high. I couldn't breastfeed. Uh, luckily my friends came over and took turns in the night to wake up to feed, um, you know, because feed Alex because he was 8 weeks old at that time.

Yeah.

So as you can imagine, my whole life was turned upside down. And that's why I've stated in the book that when you're going through a period of grief and tragedy, your relationships around you are key. Um, those relationships can really provide that buffering that you need to, you know, go through that period. And, um, you know, it's unbelievable, Brian D Smith, that when that viral article you mentioned went viral. That was after my sabbatical, and I came back, uh, you know, and they said to me, you have to write a money book. An agent said you should write that book, and you should write a money book. And I said no, like, I can't just write a money book. There's so much more to this story, to this, you know, than money. And it's unbelievable that all those core facets of holistic wealth were what got me through that grief. It was not only the relationships, but it was, you know, taking the time to deal with my mental and emotional health. It was trying to get me on a path to eating well again and to nourishing my body. It was spiritual self-renewal every day, meditating, praying, thinking about and reflecting upon my life and where I wanted it to go. And, and, you know, what was this story and what was the universe trying to tell me here? Um, it was those various facets of holistic wealth that kept me afloat. And that's what I think is the key in terms of building resilience and having that core, that core set of beliefs that can guide you through any setback regardless of what the setback is. Uh, but that's why I think, you know, how we look at our lives and thinking about holistic wealth and thinking about living holistically wealthy lives where you know, not focused just on one area of our life, but we're focused on all these different facets also helps us to build resilience. And, you know, it gives us that strength to weather setbacks.

Yeah. Now, you mentioned you had a near-death experience with your, with your first child.

Did—

how did that impact your view on life?

Yeah, no, that is it's become a part of my mission in terms of, um, you know, giving a platform to others like myself, maternal near-miss survivors, and those who have, um, are working in the field, are doing advocacy, advocacy organizations. And, um, you know, it's, it's, it's tremendous, the barriers that Black women face. It's tremendous in terms of or healthcare, what we go through. And so for me, it's basically been a part of my mission. It's, it's influenced this holistic wealth framework because as I went through that near-death experience— and I wasn't the only one whose, whose life was at risk, uh, my baby's life was at risk— so both of us nearly died. He had the umbilical cord, it was wrapped around his neck, and so his heartbeat went to almost nothing. Like, it— so Uh, you know, health and access to proper care is a big part of the narrative. It's a big part of holistic wealth, especially for certain communities, for the Black community. And we've seen with COVID in terms of what, you know, uh, what we've been through, the Black community has had the biggest losses during COVID-19. And if you look at the, the impacts afterwards It's, it's ongoing in terms of the economic and social impacts in terms of our health. And so it's been a huge part in terms of this social justice piece and this healthcare piece of, you know, of that holistic wealth framework. So that's been a big part of my work as well as just, you know, getting people more aware. Yeah, I know the causes.

Yeah, I don't think a lot of people are aware of the health issues that Black women have, not health issues, the issues they have with the medical community, and how they have more often Black women die in childbirth, for example. And it's not just economic, it's, it's, it's across all economic strata. So is that true in Canada as well? I know it's definitely true in the US.

It absolutely is true of Canada as well. And, you know, in terms of the causes, the racism, you know, sexism, like, there's, there's a lot to unpack in terms of why it's very similar in Canada. The contributing factors for Black women are pretty much the same. I mean, our healthcare system is universal care, so it's a bit different in terms of the structure of the, the healthcare system here, but the underlying causes of why, you know, we don't get the standard of care are still the same. They're still absolutely the same. So it's—

and, and that's what I learned— go ahead.

Even with a health system that's structured differently, right? Similar outcomes.

Yeah. And, and that's, I think, the most shocking thing. So I think a lot of times we think that because Black healthcare outcomes are because of economic issues, but even when you, even when you allow for that, it's the way doctors treat women and the way doctors treat Black women in particular that leads to these negative outcomes. So I'm glad that you're bringing that forward because I think it's really important for people to understand.

Yeah, absolutely.

So you, when you came back from your sabbatical, and you know, you mentioned core values, which is another thing I really want to talk about, because I think it's really important that we understand what our core values are. Do you feel like your core values changed after your husband's passing? Or did they just become more important? Or did they become more prominent? How would you describe that?

Yeah, I think core values. It's interesting that you asked that question because I think from— for me personally, most of my core values had remained the same. I think what shifted with the tragedy was, okay, are they now— are they in alignment with the path that I'm on, you know? And will I be able to stick with the path that I'm on, wholesale and retail, and still make the impact that I want to make, do the type of work that I want to do? So there there was a conflict. There was a conflict. And I think it's the conflict with the values that causes the problem for most people. Because when we look at what we spend our time doing for the majority of a workday, or for the majority of our days, it's, it's in conflict with what we want to be doing and what we want to be achieving. So for instance, family was always a core value for me as a mom. But then how do I structure my day to spend more time with family? How do I structure my day to impact my family in the way that I want to and build a type of collective mission? Because I talk about building a mission as well as part of holistic wealth. So I think with many people, I think the values are often in conflict with what we want to get done. And so it's looking at where that conflict is. Why are— what are we spending our time on? Like doing that inventory and then figuring out, like, are, you know, are there things that are, you know, not in alignment? Like, I often talked about, you know, this values pyramid that we can use to, you know, fish out our top 5 values. What are your top 5 values in that pyramid, and what's out of alignment? Because I think that's a way of prioritizing what we should be spending our days on and spending our time. So it's important to look at not only values writ large, but what are the top 5 values and is it in alignment with how I'm spending my time, which is, which is core. And I think for me it was just kind of rejigging my life so that it became more holistic. So, you know, if I needed to build out this framework and impact the community in the way I wanted to, what did— what do I need to do? And some of that work was basically, you know, given to me by readers when the first edition of the book came out, readers came forward and they were like, well, we want to be certified holistic wealth consultants, we want to go out in our communities and impact other women and teens. And some of them are now doing voluntary work with the YWCA of Canada, they're doing work, and I mean, they're certified holistic wealth consultants all over the globe in their communities doing work. But most of them came forward to me saying, we want to be certified to do this work How can we impact our community that way? Because I, you know, we see where we can use this in our various communities. So basically it was spending that time that, you know, I needed to craft these different programs so that women could go out there and impact their communities separate and apart from me in a way where they were empowered with this message and the tools and the framework to, to go out there and do it in a systematic way that was in alignment with the work that I had done. So that's basically how the message has spread. It has been really organic roots, like bottom up, with readers just saying to me, you know, this is what we want to do, let's see how we can work together to do it. And I find that once, you know, you become more aligned with your purpose, and once you become more aligned with those values and you start putting them into action then it becomes really easy for that to take shape and for that work to take on a new, you know, meaning and, you know, start impacting in the way that you want that impact to take place.

Yeah, I think that— yeah, thanks for that answer. I think that's a great answer. And I kind of think the core values tend to not change. And I know we do change as people, we grow, but I think core values pretty much stay the same. But I think what happens when these tragedies happen to us, it causes us to reset, we examine things. And we accept in our Western society, living out of alignment with our core values, we just think that's just what we do. We don't, we don't even examine our value. I don't even know what my values are. I just know I go to this job every day. And I know that I hate it. And I can't wait till the weekend, I can't wait to go on vacation, I can't wait to retire. But we don't really question like, what can I do different? And when your life is just ripped apart, everything's up in the air, everything's up for grabs, and you say, oh, I could do anything I want. What am I— what do I want to do?

Yeah, absolutely. And when, you know, as you said, you know, Brian D Smith, just know when your life's ripped apart, when mine was, I started thinking, well, no, I'm a single mom, how do I spend more time with my kids? Like, that was— that became a core need because not only was my oldest son now grieving the loss of his dad, but he had one parent left. And so whereas I would be able to spend more time at work before he died, doing the things that I, you know, in terms of my career path, I had to set that aside and now focus on them. And that was now what was just, you know, became a core need. Yeah, and so that was it with, with everything. And then it— with me personally, with taking that time that I needed. So absolutely, you're absolutely right, it— the korva, they're always there, but you know, it often takes a reset, um, that's required for you to, to say, well, yeah, you know, I have to flip this, this switch now. This is absolutely necessary.

So during that time that you took off the sabbatical, which I think is so wise, if you're able to do it, that's just awesome. Did you think, like, about not going back? Did you think about doing something completely different? How did you realize that you could do what you were doing and align it to your values?

Yeah, so there were thoughts, there were different thoughts going through my mind. At one point, yes, I thought, well, maybe I should not go back. Uh, um, maybe I should just go full-time into my, you know, into, into writing. I had started writing on sabbatical, started doing different work on sabbatical, as a, you know, not work work, but exploring different passions. And, and, you know, different people started saying, well, you should explore those passions full-time, like don't bother, you know, going back to work. Yeah, you're obviously talented and gifted in this type of space. So just, just focus on this. But at the time, I made that cost-benefit analysis. And I'm, you know, if, if anybody's listening in and they're thinking, what should I do? I'm at this stage, I'm at this critical juncture. Do that cost-benefit analysis. And this is where the finance comes in as well. And this is where everything comes in, in terms of your family, your age. Do you have a young family? At the time I did, I was 31. I was still very young, and I thought, you know what, like, I still had certain career goals that I wanted to achieve, which I did. I've always wanted, for instance, to, you know, to, to do certain work as an economist. And, you know, going back to work gave me that opportunity because I landed in a spot where I started doing this type of work. And being able, you know, to participate, um, you know, in supporting delegations and that type of thing. And of course, that is invaluable, and that became an invaluable part of my story, and it gave me certain skills which were also invaluable. And I'll never ever forget that. So I think, you know, if, if people are listening in and they're thinking, well, you know, I'm at this point, I'm at this critical juncture right now, well, do that cost-benefit. You know what you to achieve. You know what your financial goals are. Are you there yet? How do you want to retire? How does your retirement look like? And I often tell people, you know what, this is what we do at the Institute. We help people with their holistic wealth portfolios. And if you are at a particular spot, we'll look at all your goals holistically and think, think about where you are right now in this moment and what you want to achieve. And that's what I did. And I figured, you know what, I still have some career goals, um, that I want to achieve. But yet still, I know that I, I have this greater purpose now which will eventually take over, which will eventually be the emphasis and focus of my life. And, and that's how I did it. So it was a slow transition, and I used my experience to gain the skills that I needed because I knew I still needed to fine-tune some skills. I knew I wasn't quite there yet. I was still young, still had young babies, and I needed to do more. And, you know, that was invaluable. So if somebody is thinking of doing that, listening in, then just think about where you are right now, what your goals are, what you want your life to look like.

Yeah, I just love the way you said that and the way you did that. It's like instead of just throwing everything away and starting over, I mean, you have this incredible skill set that you could use and you say, you'd say, okay, here's my, here's my values, here's my holistic goals, here's a skill set I have. How can I take this skill set and meld these two together? You don't have to throw everything away. And I know people are like, I just, I want to do something meaningful, so I'm going to quit my job and go do something else. It's like, yeah, yeah, that might not be practical.

Exactly. Exactly. And it's one of the things too, that with having holistically wealthy workplaces on the other side of it, for organizations to actually think about how they can accommodate employees who've had these transformative experiences and want to make an impact in their communities. Well, how can we help you achieve your purpose? How can we keep you interested and focused at work? Yes, but with this newfound, um, you know, experience that you've had and these new skills that you've picked up and this new impact that you want to make, how can we help you foster that? And for me, there was a bit of that at work as well, where the first edition of the book came out and I got that tremendous support. That was tremendous. And so absolutely, it's not just about throwing everything away. It's about thinking about how I can achieve this purpose in the most practical, efficient way possible. And yes, maybe early retirement is part of what, you know, my long-term goal is, but how do I transition into it and how do I make it work financially, and otherwise in a more holistic way, so that I'm not, you know, just, as you said, just taking these huge risks, and then not knowing how to deal with a setback if a setback arises. Right.

Well, we've talked a lot about holistic health. Let's, let's define it.

I'm excited to announce I have a great new resource. It's called GEMS: 4 Steps to Move from Grief to Joy. And what it is, it's 4 things that I've found that I do on a daily basis to help me to navigate my grief. And I'm offering it to you free of charge.

It's a free download.

Just go to my website, www.grieftogrowth.com/gems, G-E-M-S, and grab it there for free. I hope you enjoy it.

The final formula, Holistic Wealth, is— it's a framework that, you know, I developed. And it basically, it's this new paradigm of how we define wealth. So traditionally we defined wealth as, you know, net worth, and we looked at wealth in terms of our assets and, you know, more physical material possessions. With holistic wealth, we're also looking at not just that, because that plays a part, and it's mostly in terms of financial independence more than just physical assets. Uh, but also mental health or spiritual health or emotional well-being or physical health, and also having a life purpose and meaning and/or relationships. So in the book, I go through each chapter, and each chapter builds on— especially in the new version, the new edition of Holistic Wealth— each chapter builds on the other until we get to the part where we build a holistic wealth portfolio. And you can see the key facets of holistic wealth. They're the key pillars, and what I'm saying here is they're all interdependent. You know, we— everybody knows that quote, "There's no wealth without health," and that's so true. And it's also more than that. It's also all these key pillars that provide this buffering that we need in times of setback that help us become more resilient and able to overcome these setbacks. So it also builds resilience and helps us overcome, you know, these tragedies and, and hurricanes and storms that happen, you know, over a lifetime.

Yeah, absolutely. I love the fact that you're, you're integrating this, this all together. It reminds me, I interviewed recently a couple of people who are transpersonal psychotherapists, psychotherapists, which is something I really hadn't heard about before. But they're, they're looking at the whole person, they're looking at spiritual, emotional, you know, as well as mental health. And in this case, when you talk about wealth, it includes everything in our life, it includes, you know, resilience, as you've talked about a lot. So when people, when people do discover this, are the people that you work with, are they often coming out of grief? Is that what leads them to you? Or are healthy, you know, not healthy, but people who are relatively happy, do they come to you as well?

So the women, the people who come forward are people who are often helping other people in a professional capacity. And they've read the book, and they've realized, oh my gosh, I don't even have half the tools I need to really help in the way I want to help. And it's unbelievable, because let's say there's some that are financial analysts who are working with people out there who have suffered various setbacks, and they've read the book and they've realized that their training and their experience hasn't really equipped them to really advise on certain things. And they've read the book and they're like, oh my gosh, like, you know, we need to be certified, we need to go deeper into the material so we can help others. With these kinds of setbacks and give better advice. So we've had people from every industry and every walk of life, but the key thing here is that they've all felt ill-equipped, um, you know, to really help people in the way that they really want to help. And so we've been building on that to help them to help people who've been through money trauma, because 80% of the population has some money trauma. And especially if you've been through grief of any kind any loss of any kind, you have some money trauma. And so, uh, helping them to help other people who've gone through this kind of trauma has been very fulfilling because it's just so widespread and it's not talked about that much. Even when we speak about grief, we don't often speak about the money trauma part of it. We don't speak about the fallout in terms of how that, you know, how that experience makes me feel about money and my personal finances now. But it needs to be spoken about because I know I went through it, and I know so many people are going through it. And even as a trained economist, I can't imagine if I didn't have the training I had how I would, you know, come out of this without the kind of support and help needed. So that's one way that I've melded my experience and my background having also gone through grief and loss to try to help others.

Yeah, tell me about the money trauma. What do you mean by that?

Yeah, so, you know, it's, it's unbelievable. As I said, 80% of the population, almost 80%, has some kind of money trauma. And money trauma is basically just trauma that arises from some sort of financial situation. Most people, though, have, you know, experienced it even through childhood and have experienced, you know, whether it's, you know, parents arguing about money or growing up in poverty, growing up in scarcity. And even if you grew up in abundance, there can be money trauma. Yeah, uh, it just arises because of a wide— it could be intergenerational, it could be the narratives you've heard about money, money is evil, it could be any, you know, situation. It can be something catastrophic, like a divorce, or, you know, your spouse passing away, or a child passing away, that causes some sort of financial implications. And even if you have things in place like a life insurance policy, or even if you, you are in a state of abundance and it happens, just the grief and those feelings can also cause money trauma because of, you know, the feelings that arise in grief and, and the fact that your life has been upended. So we've been trying to do some work around that to educate people who've been through grief, people who've had a loss of any kind. It could be chronic illness, it could be loss of a job, it could be loss of a spouse, could be loss of a child, loss of a parent. Any kind of setback like that can cause some form of money trauma. And, you know, being self-aware and recognizing those feelings in terms of your finances is one, one way that you can recognize, hey, something's not right here, you know. I'm disassociating. I don't want to think about my finances. I don't want to think about money. I'm not checking my credit cards. I'm not checking my bank statements. I'm— every time I think about money, it just makes me feel nervous and anxious, and I get butterflies, and I feel nauseous. Those are some of, you know, some quick symptoms. And, but being self-aware, especially if you're going through a period of grief and loss of any kind, is critical.

Yeah, a lot of times grief can actually trigger or can reignite other traumas that we've had. So as you were talking, I was thinking about, you know, you talked about relationship with money, like when you're a child, whether you had money or didn't have money, your parents' view of money, All those things, you know, we carry around with us, and then they get these— they get activated when we go through an event. And we might even— we might be carrying them around subconsciously, and then they just suddenly come to the surface.

Absolutely. And I often tell students who take the course with me, you know, plot your disruption timeline and start from your earliest memory. And all those disruptions that you've had, think about any of those that had financial implications or that impacted your money mindset or your money situation, and really write it down and write down how much it impacted you. And I think if we go through our lives like that and you think about, you know, so many people come on my podcast and they're like, oh, my parents lived through— my grandparents lived through World War II, or my grandparents had to flee as refugees, or my parents had to flee as refugees, and it, it's impacted the way that they view money, their relationship with money. So thinking about all those disruptions into adulthood can give us an idea of really the kind of money trauma we're dealing with, whether it's significant or it's just, you know, mild, or— but it really does put things into perspective.

Yeah. And you, you've mentioned several times the word resilience, which is a word that I, I, I always talk to my clients about as well, because The time to build resilience is when you're not, not in crisis, because we know these disruptions, as you call, as you call them, we know they're coming. You know, every, every one of us goes through them in some sense or another, whether it's a health thing, a divorce, you mentioned divorce, whether it's, you know, losing a child or a spouse or financial setbacks or job. So we constantly have to be building our toolset, which it sounds like what you help people do. To be ready for these disruptions.

Yeah, absolutely. And I actually train my students, like the Certified Holistic Wealth Consultants, to plan for 2 setbacks per decade because studies show— and even when we look at different financial crises, like I've spoken about in my book and I've studied as an economist coming up from, um, you know, the, the big one we had in 2008 and even before and after We see where there's been at least 2 big ones per decade that globally we face, even if we don't think about them, the other ones that we're facing in our own personal lives. So if we can plan for 2 setbacks per decade, uh, you know, to help us have that resilience that you mentioned and build a portfolio that is resilient, then I think that's, that, you know, that's, that's a good thing to do because we know setbacks are coming and It's just being ready for them.

Wow. Well, when you said two separate, I had two feelings. One is it's great to be ready for them. The other is that sounds like a lot.

Exactly.

And if you look at this COVID period, I mean, we've been through, we've been through a lot in these few years. And I mean, this isn't typical. I know this isn't typical. But even as an economist, and I'm thinking this is unprecedented. This is like any unlike anything I've seen in my memory in my living years. So even if we take this small period, you know, then we're thinking, yeah, we actually need to be doing far more than what we're doing to build that resilience, to build our portfolios, to plan ahead.

Yeah, this, this last 3 years has been crazy on so many levels, on the economic level. But since we're talking about holistic wealth here also, you know, it's affected all of us mentally and emotionally, and we're still dealing, dealing with supply chain issues and You know, people, whether I'm going to work from home or go back to the office. And now there's a conflict because a lot of employers want the, want the people to come back to the office and people are like, I like working from home. Yeah, they're quitting their jobs and say, I'm not going back.

Yeah, absolutely. There's unprecedented disruption. And as I said in, you know, Holistic Wealth, this is the art of recovery from disruption. It's how can I build those, you know, if we're talking about personal finances. It's how can I build that financial resilience piece so that I have everything in place so that if my employer says, well, um, you know, we're bringing everybody back into the office, it's how I can put things in place so that I can make a transition out. Or I'm thinking of staying, but I'm thinking of, you know, doing certain things. It really lends itself to the conversation that we've been having so far, Brian, in terms of How do we structure our lives in a way that honors those core values, that we're able to live that genuine, authentic life that we've always dreamed of? And it is doable. It's just a matter of putting those pieces in play. And especially when you've been through a big setback like we've had, and one that is life-defining, then it's even more important to, to really take the time to do it. Mm-hmm.

I know you work— you mentioned that you work at a certification program for people who are financial advisors, which I think is awesome. I'm going to talk to my financial advisors about— they're really good anyway about that kind of stuff, but I'm going to let them know about your program. But you also work with individuals, and I guess you have like coaching program or programs that people can go through. So tell me more about your individual work.

Yeah. So, yeah, so the certification programs for sure. Are for people who want to be certified to go out into their communities to help others, people who may want to then earn revenue from it in terms of helping clients or add to their suite of services and or go out into nonprofit organizations and be certified. But then individually, I do help clients one-on-one, like I take on, um, you know, a core set of clients on an individual basis. And that can also be in terms of just one-on-one coaching. So I referenced The Art of Recovery from Disruption. There's that piece also where I've had, you know, women come to me and be like, well, you know, I've been through a divorce, or I've been through some kind of setback, and I need some mental work. I need to really bolster my mindset. And I feel like I've been down a rabbit hole, a path that I'm going that I can no longer go down. I've had those experiences where I've had to coach people just one-on-one through that. So there are the different key pieces of holistic wealth that require not necessarily certification but require that kind of one-to-one piece. Somebody has been through something similar, and, you know, I have the tools and other pieces that I can readily just pull on to help. And I've done that in terms of just one-on-one as well with people who need different, very specific guidance in terms of building back a life from scratch, or, you know, just mindset work, or, or something else, you know, that they're thinking, you know, I need help with to kind of go on, and I need someone who has done the work themselves and who's figured it out.

Yeah, now I, I had a misunderstanding about the certification program, so it's not just for professionals.

It's not, and it's not just for people in the finance industry, right? People who've participated who are doctors, who are interior designers, uh, teachers, nurses. So it's, it's, it's for anyone who wants to be able to dive deeper into the work to help others. And so that's the key. Like, I get people who come to me individually, they just want to deal with their personal issues, their thing. But once you want to help somebody else as part of your mission, or you want to help somebody else through a suite of other courses that you might have or other online offerings, then that's where the certification is very helpful in giving you those tools, because it also comes with the tools, you know, that you can use with clients. Yeah, it's very helpful for that.

Yeah, that's fascinating. I'm glad, I'm glad that we cleared that up because I could see a lot of people, people that do the work that I do, I think would be very, very beneficial for all these things. And I love the word holistic, because all these things tie together. So we often think of time in our finances as one thing, our physical health is one thing, our mental health is another thing, our spiritual health is another thing. But they're all, they're all, you know, they're all tied together. And for example, if you're financially stable, then that takes some pressure off of all the other things, you know, but if you're not, then it's like Maslow's hierarchy, right? If I don't have enough money, it's It's kind of hard for me to self-actualize when I can't pay the electric bill.

Exactly. And it's, you know, you mentioned the sabbatical part of it, for instance. So I do train people who want to take a sabbatical because you mentioned that, right? Like, if you're not, uh, financially able to, then it's very devastating when something happens and you can't take that time off to really grieve or to set your life in a different path. And that's what having those key pieces in place enables you to do. And so other people came for, and they're like, yeah, I want to take a sabbatical, can you coach me through that, or do you have a course? Which we have for the— at the Institute on Holistic Wealth to help with that. Because I went through that whole planning stage, and now I'm helping people to do that who need to take that time off and do it very productive and, and do it in a way where they're not going to ruin their finances or ruin their career. You're doing it in a systematic, planned way where you will come out, you know, with some key outcomes that we've, we've outlined, some key outcomes that will put you on a path to being able to, you know, actualize your dreams, as you said, and to live the life you really want to live.

That is, that is so profound because, as you said, we know we're going to have a couple of events, you know, a decade. And we know something's going to happen. So being able to have that buffer, because when you're in grief, people that are in certain, you know, professions are like, okay, you get 3 days, you get 5 days if it's somebody close.

Yeah.

And so now you're trying to deal with your career and all that stuff. And meanwhile, you're dealing with brain fog. And you're, you know, because the first couple of years of grief, your brain doesn't function properly. And it's just, it really prolongs, I think, that recovery period. You know, what you were able to do to take that sabbatical can make it a transformative event, which— because you're just— it's a reset almost.

It's a—

we just said, you know, looking at my values, I'm looking at my skills, I'm combining these things together, and you can do it without that pressure of the day-to-day, having, you know, 9 to 5 going into the office.

Absolutely. And you know what, like, Brian D Smith, I had to take a no— I had to take no-pay leave. And for the majority of us, like, I did one year. For the majority of us, if not all, let's say in a work setting, it would have to be no pay for that kind of time, right? But when you look at the cost-benefit, and yes, I did give up, I did give up some stuff, I did, uh, but when you look at the cost-benefit of what I was able to achieve personally and in terms of a reset of my own life, like, I can't imagine what would have happened had I not taken that sabbatical. Like, I don't even want to think about it. And when I think about the path that I'm on now, because I was able to take that time not only to build back who I was but to think about how I was going to live my life, there's just no value, monetary value, that you can put on that.

Yeah, you know, it reminds me conversations we've been having, my, my daughter's mid-20s, and all our friends are mid-20s. So they're, you know, they're thinking about careers, or they're in their careers, and they're thinking about getting married and having children. And my wife and I have had a couple conversations with my daughter recently. I'm like, I'm glad I don't have to do that again. Because, you know, it's like, I want to have my career, I want to be independent, I don't want to depend on anybody else. I'm like, once you have children, you know, then, then you've got, you know, soccer practice and swim practice and basketball practice and all the things that they're going to be doing. And if you're both out working, you know, full time, and you're both like all about your career, I'm like, well, I don't want to navigate that. And we haven't taught people how to navigate that holistically, right? Because people think it's got to be one or the other, either I'm going to be super career-oriented, or I'm going to take care of my family.

Exactly. Absolutely. And especially in the face of a setback, we haven't taught people that. And it's so funny, when the first edition of the book came out, Arianna Huffington, quote, quoted a line from the book on her social media that— and I mentioned the education system not having prepared me. I don't have the exact quote from the book. I wish I did right now. But basically, the education system teaches linearity. It doesn't teach the art of recovery from disruption. And you're absolutely right. It doesn't— we're not exactly taught how to balance all of these competing priorities. And we're taught one, one thing, just this linear approach. So when, you know, life doesn't work that way, then it becomes confusion, and there's no real framework that helps us to get through this. So that was kind of my thinking as well, especially as an economist, about, well, I wanted to talk about grief, but I wanted to do it in a way to help others recover in a systematic way with a framework that was ready for them because I felt like when I went through it, there was none. There were tons of grief books about grief, stages of grief, what to do, you know, grief in your 60s, 70s, 80s. There was nothing there for me at 31.

Right, right.

31, just had, you know, a baby 8 weeks prior, to get back, you know, a life and to rebuild and to think about how to do this holistically. So that's the framework that, um, you know, I try to provide to others. And, and I'm glad, like, every time we have, you know, I get the opportunity to have this conversation, it becomes a blessing to me because I know it's so needed for people out there.

Yeah, absolutely. It's 100% needed. And you're just such a great example of, of resilience and what we can do and how, you know, I talked to so many people who they go through a tragedy, and they say, well, my life is over, you know. And in a sense, one part of us does discontinue and become a different person. I'd imagine you would probably say after you came back from that sabbatical, you're, you know, in a way, a different person you were when you, when you left.

Absolutely, absolutely. I still remember the day, you know, sitting in front of my boss, one day soon after my husband died. And I remember him looking into my eyes and saying, "We want the old Keisha back. We want the old Keisha back." Because I was, you know, killing all these targets at work and achieving these milestones. And when he said that to me, I was like, "Well, I don't think the old Keisha is coming back. You're going to get a different Keisha, a new version, but it's not going to be the old Keisha." I am so—

I just got goosebumps. You said that. I'm so glad that you said that. Because people are like, people around us was like, I want to get— I want you to go back to who you were. And my clients will come to me and say, well, I want— am I ever going to be the person that I was? And I'm like, I sure hope not. I'm a very different person than I was, you know, 8 years ago. It'll be 8 years for me in exactly a month or month and 2 days. So I'm a, I'm a different person. But that's, that's a good thing. That's not a, that's not a bad thing. Yeah, we are, as humans, we, we want to avoid change, we want to avoid disruption. That's natural. But the reality is, we can't, we change, things change around us. Disruptions happen, as you said, at least twice every, twice a decade. So we have to accept that we have to figure out, okay, what do I do with this? What, how do I take this? And how do I make it into something, you know, beneficial.

Absolutely. And I think it's a lesson for those around us as well. So not just in the workplace or organizations, it's a lesson for friends around who are witnessing this transformation, you know, and, and how do you support that? And how do you, you know, enable that? Because that's that wanting the old Keisha back, wanting the old Brian D Smith back isn't going to happen, you're going to get a new and improved version. But how do we you know, support that, this new journey, that's this new phase, this new season of life.

Yeah. Well, after, after 14 years after your husband's passing, and I know this is a, this is a delicate question, but how do you feel? Do you feel like things like this in life are planned, you know, by like some sort of soul planning or something? Or what are your, what are your feelings about, about that event now?

Yeah, so yeah, it's, it's unbelievable because going through the tragedy, I often wondered, you know, was this planned? Was this a part of what was supposed to happen to me? And I do think so. I am also a spiritual person, so I believe that our lives you know, are ordered somewhat. I do believe that it was to be a part of my journey. Uh, there is no way, you know, that with how my life has turned out that I could say otherwise. It has just been, uh, too obvious to me personally with my story and my life that this was supposed to happen. And it was to be used as, you know, a lesson and, um, for purpose and to help humanity forward. And when I look at the unique skills and experiences of my life, not just the personal part, but my background, my training, my skills, my personal journey, it's obvious to me that that happened for a reason and that yes, it was a part of that journey. Um, you know, I remarried afterwards and I did have a daughter and, um, and my life looks very different now. But absolutely, absolutely, I do believe that this was part of my destiny. The work I'm doing now was ordered and that I am just basically doing what was meant for my life. And it's a soul calling, and I feel it very deeply, and I feel that, you know, this message that I'm bringing forth has been ordered. And so, you know, it gives me great, um, relief, and it makes me feel very whole and very comforted that something so positive can come out of this great tragedy. And if I can use this to help others, then my life wouldn't be in vain. And that my, my children losing their father at an age where they'll never remember his voice, right, ever again, that won't be in vain. And sometimes, most times, I pray that I'm able to do this in a way to truly touch the lives of others. That's my prayer right now, that I'm doing it in a way that honors that. So absolutely.

I suspected that would be your answer, just from the feeling I get from you. You're such an inspiration, and you're in your, in your story. And I believe, you know, I believe that believing we have a purpose helps us achieve more, you know, I can't imagine living a life where I think everything is just random, that, you know, this tragedy befell me and nothing good will ever come of it. I just— it doesn't work for me. I know some people choose to believe that way. But the people that I— maybe the people that are attracted or drawn into my life, but like someone like yourself, I'm like, yeah, this has got to be ordered. This has got to be, you know, planned. And I see the impact that you're making. And It's so interesting. And I say this for the people that are listening, because I know when you're 6 months in, a year in, 2 years in, 3 years in, this may sound crazy to you. But once you— I want to give an example, somebody that's 14 years into this and can see, see the path now behind them and say, wow, that made some sense.

Absolutely. And as you said, Brian, you know, it gives great comfort and relief that, uh, you know, there can be that, that huge positive, um, benefit and that impact on others. And absolutely, you know, I could go into detail about so many things that have happened that have, you know, that are obvious, obvious that, you know, this is— this was meant to be. And And that, yeah, we're making an impact and doing the work. And I, you know, it's great the work that you're doing too, and the lives that you're touching in this space. So absolutely.

Well, it's interesting, you talked about the detail, because people ask me like how I got to be where I am like, that would take a very long time, because the synchronicities start to happen, you know, doors start to open, you meet certain people, certain things happen in your life. And again, they just, they're not random. They're not coincidence. It's like, you know, if you're, you kind of get on your path, things— it doesn't mean you don't have setbacks, doesn't mean you don't have difficulties, but things do seem to go easier when you're going in flow.

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And you're right, certain people come into your life, you make these connections, and, and it just, it just happens. And it gives you this greater awareness that absolutely, This is the work that you need to be doing at this moment in time. So absolutely.

Yeah. Well, Keisha, tell people where they can reach you. Remind them about your book, your programs, all that stuff.

Yeah. So the book is available everywhere online and in bookstores. It's on Amazon. It's in Barnes Noble, Target. It's in bookstores all across the globe. And my website is keishablair.com. The courses are available on the Institute on holisticwealth.com. I'm on social media at Keisha O'Blair on Instagram and Twitter, and I'm on Facebook at Keisha Blair Author. You can check out the Holistic Wealth Podcast. Tune in to hear about other people's lives and how they live this holistically wealthy lifestyle. And yeah, you know, uh, connect. I love hearing from readers, so So that would be amazing hearing from people who've tuned in or who've read the book.

Well, it's, it's been an honor and a pleasure to have you here today. Thank you so much for doing this.

Thank you for having me, Brian. This has been amazing. Thanks for having me on the show.

All right, enjoy the rest of your day.

Thank you, you too.

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