Embracing Pain as a Pathway to Healing: Joshua Cameron's Revolutionary Perspective on Chronic Pain and Holistic Recovery

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Hey everybody, this is Brian D Smith back with another episode of Grief 2 Growth. And today I've got with me Joshua Cameron. And Joshua is a Utah native, born and raised. He joined the Army at the age of 19. Where 8 days after September 11th, he deployed to his first war zone in the Balkans. While he was there, he was recognized for valor and service by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the highest-ranking officer in the US. Later, he deployed to Kuwait and Iraq and even has a comical stand-up comedy bit about how terrible the conditions were for soldiers there. He spent the last 10+ years in the medical field, from combat medic to pediatric, pediatric medical research and data analytics. Where he worked on the largest longitudinal study of its kind while he was at the University of Utah. He now helps people who suffer from chronic pain in their minds and their bodies, and helps them find a pain-free life by guiding them from to a place of perfect health. So with that, I want to welcome to Grief to Growth Joshua Cameron.

Oh, wow. Hey, thank you so much. I really appreciate you holding the space here.

Yeah, it's good to— it's good to meet you. You've got an interesting background. And how did you get into helping other people with their pain, though?

Well, there's a long journey, right? We often— well, really, we can only see the world from a place of who we are. And so if we are stuck in grief, well, then all we're going to see is grief, and there's really no room to help others. And in order for me to hide as a child, as a survival mechanism, to hide from the grief of growing up in an abusive household, I really buried myself in a lot of fantasy novels.. And in those fantasy novels are people who are, you know, given a monumental task that, you know, they probably didn't want to do it and it was very difficult for them. It was very scary for them, and yet they stepped up and did it anyway. And so I really resonated with that, which then, you know, brought me to this idea of, oh, well, you know, I'd really like to help out. I really like to add value. Now the problem is, is that if we don't know how to help ourselves, well, we're going to be clumsy at best at helping others as well. And so I really had to learn how to help myself and took a lot of chaos, you know, whether it be, you know, from, you know, going from, you know, child abuse and, you know, both mental and physical to then, you know, PTSD, just, you know, the different things that you, you know, can't unsee, you know, in a war zone and just how that wreaks havoc on relationships. And as that falls apart, you know, I realized that all the walls that I erected, you know, in order to protect me, well, what they did was, you know, I erected these walls to be like, hey, hide me from this pain. Well, the problem is the wall doesn't discriminate. So if there's anything that's good coming my way, it's going to block that as well. And that's usually why people go through the dark night of the soul and everything changes. Because during the dark night of the soul, which is where typically people feel like their life has kind of fallen apart, well, all the walls collapsed. And when all the walls collapse, well, then the heart is open and it can actually receive the signal. And then from there,, you know, just found a, you know, the idea of when the student is ready, the master appears. That certainly happened in my life and had a chain of them. You know, some I found on YouTube, some I actually paid for, you know, quite handsomely for, you know, mentorship and guidance. And yeah, it's been a very fascinating road since then.

Yeah. So you're also in the medical field. So how does that, how does what you do helping people with chronic pain relate to like just the, the the traditional medical training?

Well, so the, the traditional medical training, you have the Hippocratic oath, right? Do no harm. Mm-hmm. Problem is, is we've abandoned that, right? Because we, we've abandoned that for a very, very long time. I mean, unfortunately the medical system, and I was very blind to it, medical system's no, no different than any other organization, right? It's very, you know, susceptible to just doing the bidding of, you know, their largest donors. And, you know, back when my mom was a, my mom was young. Well, what those donors said is, hey, you know, pregnant woman, you should smoke because it's healthy. And then later on they said, hey, you know, person who wants to eat well and be healthy, you should cut out all that fat and replace it with sugar. And then they said, oh, hey, you in chronic pain, why don't you go ahead and take these opioids because they're completely safe and non-addictive. And, you know, hey, you know, why don't you go ahead and take this experimental, you know, whatever.

Yeah.

And it's, it's, and so, that really woke me up to, oh, okay, so we're not really here to help. I mean, the ER is like acute pain. Acute pain's amazing, right? Our acute pain system, you know, acute care system, you know, you break your arm, you have a heart attack, you have a stroke. We're incredible, incredible at that. But when it comes to chronic conditions, it's just, oh, well, here's a pill. Oh, you've got, you know, downstream effects, you've got side effects. Well, we've got another pill for that. So we call that a win.. And, and so trying to, you know, help others and, you know, working in pediatrics, right? The longitudinal study I was a part of was called ECHO, you know, Environmental Influences in Child Health Outcomes. And the point of that is to look at a whole lot of different variables, right? There were a whole, you know, conglomerate of studies, you know, packed into, into, into one. And one of those was, you know, a group of ladies who were trying to get pregnant. And as they're trying to get pregnant, well, they're giving a lot of urine tests. And in those urine tests, they're testing for phthalates and, you know, BPA.. And then here we are, you know, bringing these, their kids in, you know, 8, 10 years later. And then we're taking pictures of their teeth and we're correlating, okay, how much BPA was in their urine? And then we correlated to, okay, are their teeth breaking down? And can we create this correlation of, you know, the, you know, the hormone disruptors and the, you know, endocrine system disruptors to, and tie it to, or at least suggest that this is something, you know, that, that could be causal or at least should be, you know, look into further. You know, we take blood samples, we take microbiome samples, height and weight, you know, go through a whole list of, you know, genetic questionnaires. And so it really got me to, okay, well, this is amazing. You know, man, I'm helping kids for one. This is great. It's a lot of fun. And then when the pandemic happened, the hospitals were the most backwards. They seemed to be the ones that weren't following the science. They seemed to be the ones that were the most just trying to make everyone afraid.. And that was really strange for me. Our hospital here, you know, when, you know, at the University of Utah where I was working, you know, when everyone quit wearing masks and they said, oh, by the way, you know, it looks like masks actually don't work. The hospital took like 6 months before they quit wearing masks as if they wanted everyone to be afraid. Like, and then when I started doing a little bit of research, like hospitals, you know, I mean, third, the third leading cause of death, it's like, What? And okay, well then I have got some really strong questions to ask myself. Is this something I want to be a part of? Is there a better way to help? And by being able to ask myself better questions, well, it leads me to better paths. And I'm not saying that doctors are the problem. Doctors are just part of a system. And so chances are you run into a doctor, he probably wants to be able to help out. Now that study's very confined, you know, he or she are very confined by, you know, what the insurance agency's gonna carve out for the amount of time, you know, what the pharmaceutical, you know, company's gonna say what they're allowed to do. And so, you know, they're victims to the, to the same system and I didn't necessarily wanna be a part of that. And so just in search of something better, you know, I found Peter Sage who taught me about consciousness. You know, he's, he was the youngest trainer for Tony Robbins back in the day. And Tony Robbins is really good for,, you know, helping people get from a place of feeling like they're victims to then, you know, hey, I'm gonna go seize the world. I'm gonna, I'm gonna go do, I'm gonna make it happen. I'm gonna swim upstream and make my dreams happen. And Peter's more of a flow state and much more of a, you know, kind of a Taoist Buddhist, though he wouldn't necessarily say that, right? He's not really religious, but much more allow it to happen, you know, tune into, you know, tune into higher vibrations and attract those and then take inspired action in order to make that manifest in the world. And then, you know, from there, because of my affinity towards helping and my affinity towards, you know, I mean healing, you know, yeah, it may not have necessarily been healing in the medical field, but that's effectively the way I identified. Well, then a master healer came into my world. I thought he was bizarre at first, but since I just learned all this stuff about consciousness, how, you know, the, the brain works through neuroscience, through psychology, how even, you know, scientists back in the '20s, you know, talked about how Consciousness is primary, right? Max Planck, consciousness is primary. You know, Niels Bohr, you know, everything that we call real is made up of things that cannot be considered as real. Say, okay, so we already discovered back in the '20s that we live in a matrix, right? That everything we call particle matter reality is made up of collapsed light waves, that everything's empty space, everything's energy. And okay, well, let me give this guy a try. Let me listen to him, at least suspend my need to believe or disbelieve because it seems very bizarre. It's challenging my model of the world. And then from there, just having that ability to say, instead of dogmatically assigning a, you know, a belief system, well, that's challenge, that challenges my identity, that challenges my, the way I believe. And instead of doing what I've done so long and stick in the logical frame of mind and just fold my arms like a toddler, be like, no, I don't like those vegetables I've never tried. No, I don't like those ideas I've never tried. Right? I then said, okay, well, what if I try 'em? How do I know?

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I hope to see you there. So why do you think that, that Western traditional medicine is so poor handling chronic conditions, specifically chronic pain. Because I know people that have had, you know, myalgia, fibromyalgia, and different diseases, and they're told it's all in your head, it's not real, you know. And we just do—

we dismiss those people because the people at the top have no interest in healing those at the bottom, you know. Because if you are— if you're sick and you can't really— you know, it's hard for you to pay your bills, it's hard for you to take care of yourself, you feel like you're crazy, well, guess what you're going to do? You're going to give your power over to somebody else. And who are you going to give your power over to? Well, whoever's, you know, whoever's right there conveniently telling you that, that they, that, that they know with a certainty that they can help. And whether that's a politician, right? Whether that's, you know, a pharmaceutical, you know, system, you know, I mean, we're, we're one of, I think, two nations in the world that allow for the types of pharmaceutical, you know, commercials to even air on public TV. And, you know, pays for about 75%, give or take, of the, you know, of the, you know, commercial, you know, you know, income, you know, for these channels. And so it's really nothing more than a business model that's based on profit first, no matter what. And if people get benefit, well, then that's a happy consequence. And I think that really boils down to that.

You know, I hate to believe that, and I've resisted that, believing that for a very long time, but the, the older I get and the more I see, it's, it's, it's undeniable. And it's not just me, I guess. I'm looking at these commercials on TV for these pharmaceuticals, for these bizarre conditions that it seems like very few people would have. I wouldn't know how the ads pay out, pay out anyway. And then they give you the list of all the side effects, right? It's like, I think I'd rather have the disease. But yeah, I'm like, why are you advertising prescription drugs to people that don't have access to them, right? I have to go to a doctor to get them. So it's, it's a weird system.

Yeah. Well, it's a way to condition us, right? Why, why if you watch CNN, is there a, maybe an ad for Boeing? Are you gonna go out and buy a 747, Brian? Right. It's a way to, it's a way to condition us to be like, oh, well these are safe, you know? And in kind of the same way, you know, when I was a kid, you know, everyone would ask, hey, what do you wanna do when you grow up? I don't know. How, how about you guys help me? And then I was like, oh, okay, I do know, you know, I wanna be a marine biologist. That's dumb. You shouldn't do that. You should do what, you know, what I think that you should do. And so it's really around conditioning. And then I end up joining the Army because, you know, I was living with my brother at the time and he and his wife were both in the Army. And, you know, what do you wanna do when you grow up? Join the Army. What do you wanna do when you grow up? Join the Army. What do you wanna do when you grow up? Join the Army. Well, what did I do? I joined the Army, right? How did we get into, and then it, you take conditioning to a, you know, to a, a very dark place. You know, what did we see with 9/11? How did we get into Iraq? Well, every single news station said 9/11 Iraq, 9/11 Iraq, 9/11 Iraq. Oh, we didn't say that Iraq was responsible for 9/11. We just mentioned Iraq and 9/11 in the same sentence for years and years. And then all of a sudden we're at war with Iraq. And so it's conditioning for us to do things that aren't in our best interest in order to fuel that same paradigm that benefits those at the top. And you know, it's not necessarily, it's not necessarily for us to say good or bad in a moralizing sense. So it's easy to do. So it's, I think it's better for us to say, hey, does it benefit us? Or, you know, or, or does it detract from our health or does it detract from our quality of life? I think that if we take morality outta the question and just look at, hey, what benefits us, well then we'll find that we live in a, in a much better life and we'll be able to find that, that we can, really attract ourselves to paradigms and systems that work much better. Because just like you said, it's so easy to resist because we want to believe. We so want to believe desperately because we see these doctors are so nice and they want to help out, but they're part of a system that controls them. And if we decide that we don't want to be a part of that system, well, then we start by asking better questions rather than demanding better answers.

Yeah, yeah, good point. So I know you've dealt with some, some issues, some health issues yourself. Is that how you decided that you wanted to help other people? And what kind of things have you gone through?

Yeah, so when I first, uh, you know, started to heal— well, I first had to heal myself, right? And, you know, because, you know, no, no leader worth their salt, you know, should be trying to lead anyone anywhere they haven't led themselves first. And, you know, so I was just letting go of so much stuff I didn't know was there. It would just come up. It's like, oh my God. And, you know, it was all through meditation. And that's, that's what was so phenomenal is that, you know, I used to have a lot of, you know, chronic, you know, PTSD. I felt like I was my own worst enemy. I felt like, you know, that, you know, I mean, for years and years I would beat myself up at night, just, you know, waylaying myself for all the different mistakes I made and for all, you know, for all the times that I said something that I felt was embarrassing. And just rob myself of hours of quality sleep in order to rake myself over the coals. And once I started learning how to heal, I really just started shedding that over the course of a few weeks. And I was crying nearly every day, just like tears of joy, just letting all that garbage out. And that's when I realized just so much joy letting that out. It's like, oh my God, I can actually do this for others. And the same man who taught me how to heal taught me how to heal others. And what's fascinating is, again, if we convince ourselves of this, only this one paradigm can work for us. Well, then the body's got no ability but to listen. And what happens if that paradigm isn't effective? Well, then we trap ourselves in something that doesn't work. For instance, I was working with a lady in South Africa. She recently lost her husband. And he was deteriorating in a nursing home facility and they didn't really take care of him. He had big giant bedsores growing, so she had to go over there and take care of him. Well, he's like a foot and a half taller than her and about 100 pounds heavier than her. And so just by having to roll him over and try to take care of him for so long, well, she tore her bicep tendon and tore it over and over and over. So for years had extreme pain.. And she said that she couldn't even reach up, barely even just try to reach into a cupboard. It'd bring her to her knees in South Africa, reaching out the right side window to grab like a parking validation. She couldn't even do that because it'd bring her to me. She had to actually open the car door and reach out. Even then, extreme painful. She worked with an orthopedic surgeon, didn't help. Worked with a chiropractor, didn't help. Went to about 7 different specialists. Only thing she said that they did is just make it worse, make it more painful. I took her through some meditations because that tap her into truth and love, because love is what heals, right? So why do we have so much fear in our world? Because love is where true power is. Love is what heals. And if we can tap into the true love of the infinite power of the soul, well, everything changes. I've got an incredible testimonial with her as I'm interviewing her and just letting her tell her own story within 4 days. 4 days. She's been dealing with this for years. Within 4 days, she can now reach out her window and not feel any pain. She can now reach up into her cupboard and actually grab something. And within 2 to 3 weeks, she had 70% of her range of motion back in that arm. And because the body's intelligent enough to heal itself, the problem is, again, coming back to Niels Bohr, coming back to Einstein, come back to Max Planck, consciousness is primary. Everything is energy. And if we're over— overlaying a negative conscious awareness, well then we've got no ability other than to, uh, to run that program in our lives and our body can't help but to listen to the voice in our head.

Yeah, that— well, you, you, you mentioned, you bring up, uh, Max Planck and Niels Bohr and those guys cuz I've become fascinated with them myself recently. And again, going back to, I'm thinking about people I know that have had like, uh, chronic pain and the doctors will tell 'em it's all in their head. And I think you would probably agree. Yeah, everything is mental, right? It's all, it's all right. But they, they're saying in a dismissive way, like, yeah, it's not real. It's all in your head. And we're, you're saying, well, it is very real, but it is, it is a mental state.

Yeah. Well, and that mental state can actually come from, you know, from a, a spiritual issue, right? Because the soul, the body's effectively a container for the soul, right? And this is where awareness comes from. And this is where our consciousness comes from. And, you know, this is a model for me, right? Nobody knows the truth of capital T. So I have no way to actually show you, you know, direct, you know, evidence of this, but just the same way that GPS is not the roads that I drive on, it's a meaningful map in order for me to get to my destination. And the soul itself is in the superset. The soul is the source of our power and the soul is being drained by, you know, you tune into news media and you get nothing but fear porn, fear porn, fear porn. Be afraid, be afraid, be afraid. You're Russia, Russia, Russia, right? Whatever. Well, then we start to create blocks.. And if our soul's being drained, well then everything downstream, right? In the subset, well, it's going to break down as a natural consequence. But the soul's at full power, well then everything downstream will then heal as a natural consequence in the same way that I was able to help her tendon drastically in just 4 days. And it's incredible when you actually tap into what's true because your heart can feel it. But there's times where somebody will say something, you get chills up your spine. And he just hammers you. Just like it's a way of basically your soul remembering, hey, this is true. This is true for you, right? The mind gets really addled. The mind gets very confused. The mind gets so convinced of its own brilliance that it traps itself. Jordan Peterson, if you're familiar with him, he's doing an Exodus breakout and a bunch of different scholars. And he had this idea of the Luciferian mind, right? Because the Luciferian mind is so convinced of its brilliance, it doesn't care what's right or wrong. It says, oh, I already know. I already know all the answers. I'm going to fold my arms just like that toddler and say, hey, this is what's right. This is what's right because I'm not willing to actually step out and try it. I'm just going to go through a logical paradigm and effectively see, hey, does this make logical sense? And it doesn't. Well, then I'll dismiss it. And coming back to Niels Bohr, if you're familiar with the CIA Gateway Protocol, right? There was a very interesting quote from Niels Bohr. Where his son reached out to him just, you know, talking about how confusing quantum mechanics is. And Niels Bohr said, well, look, you're not thinking, you're only being logical.

Hmm. Yeah. Say that, say that again. I want to hear that.

Yeah. So, you know, Niels Bohr's son, very confused, very confused over the quantum mechanics, reached out to his dad. Hey, you know, this is super confusing. What's going on here? He said, hey son, you're not thinking, you're only being logical.

It's really, really interesting that you say that, because I was reading some quotes from Einstein the other day. And a lot of them were kind of like, letting go of the intellect. He was like, he would use his intellect, of course, because he had a really powerful intellect. But he's like, I really get my greatest insights when I, I move beyond that, when I kind of let go of that. And, you know, where everybody wants to talk about quantum mechanics and quantum theory now, And none of— nobody understands it that I know of, but it's, it's kind of like you have to almost intuit it. You can't really come to it logically.

Perfect. And you know, when, when we break down something illogical in a logical framework, well then it can be nothing more than the traditional Buddhist metaphor of a finger pointing to the moon, right? If you watch the finger, you'll never see the moon.

Yeah.

Yeah. I think that's, I think that's true. And it's that I'm, I'm starting to realize that more and more and I think Again, what you're talking about with helping people to heal this chronic pain in our— and again, our tradition, we're looking at, we're looking at the wrong end of it, right? We're looking at the body instead of looking at the spirit that's holding that. You know, you talk about unresolved trauma that we carry around. And but no one tells us in traditional medicine, that's what's causing your problem.

Right. We're looking at the chemistry and we're not looking at the frequency, right? Right.

Yeah, exactly. So how do we move beyond that? How do we start to look at the frequency? How do we determine what is actually causing my problem? I've got, you know, chronic pain in my elbow. Um, how do I get started?

Uh, well, you know, a great way to even get started would be to— if you go to my website at freemefrompains.com, there's a free download You can go ahead and get a free gift and I take you through some meditations and it's an introduction, but they can still be quite powerful. And some people have a hard time meditating. They feel like they don't meditate right. So the very first one is, here are the benefits of meditating, here's how this works, and then let's take you through a brief meditation. And then the second one is starting to tap you into some of these magical awarenesses that can then start to open that up. And the way that, that I often present why the body breaks down, even though I kind of already did that, but in a way that people can really latch onto is, again, everything's energy and all energy needs to flow. And just like water, right? If water's not flowing, it stagnates. Well, and what's attracted to stagnating water? Well, mosquitoes, parasites, bacteria, viruses, fungus,, right? And what do they do in our body? Well, they drain our lifeblood, they poison our lifeblood, the body breaks down, right? In the mind, well, the same thing. We have fine examples as Americans, you know, of a thought virus. All you have to do is walk into a crowded room and it's sad when you see a bunch of them getting together and they're actually having a good time. But you can say one of 3 names. You can say Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, or Donald Trump and say nothing else. And people immediately act like they just got possessed by an agent of the matrix and they start fighting each other.. And then, so then you've got these same things in the spiritual world that instead of draining or poisoning the lifeblood, they drain the life force. And so if there's an issue in your elbow, right, it could be tied to a spiritual issue. Your soul is being drained somewhere, or your soul is being blocked somewhere. And having the ability to tune in you know, you could even, you know, ask your elbow through meditation, hey, what are you trying to tell me? Rather than, you know, most people just like, oh, my damn elbow. Oh, my stupid elbow hurts so much. And here's the thing, you know, as a kid, you know, you know what hurt me most of all? As much as getting hit really sucked, being screamed at, being yelled at, being demeaned. And we don't realize if everything's energy, well, guess what? Your elbow has a spirit. You demean the spirit of your elbow and guess what's gonna happen? Oh wow.

Yeah, I see what you're saying. So yeah, we're— and we're cursing our body, right? We're cursing our elbow.

Literally.

Yeah. Yeah. So, um, you mentioned meditation, and it's really interesting because I think meditation is extremely important. I'm always pushing people to meditate, but as you also mentioned, people push back against it. I can't meditate. I can't stop my thoughts. I'm not doing it right. So what do you say to people that's to say those things? Like, you just don't understand. I just can't meditate.

Yeah. Well, first, let's watch our language, right? As soon as we say can't, well, there's literally nowhere else to go from there, right? I can't. Well, okay, well, you know, what if you say, well, I haven't yet learned how to meditate. And then, you know, the reason why it's important to meditate, because again, you know, the brain is the supercomputer of the container. The heart is what connects to the signal to the soul. And so the heart, in meditation, you have an intention. And when you give out the intention without necessarily engaging the mind, right, leaving the mind quiet, right? What did Lao Tzu say? You know, to the still mind, the entire universe surrenders. And so when we tap into the signal of the heart that is connected to the signal of the soul, well, then the soul can then reach up and start to ameliorate these issues, not because we think, oh, I need to go grab a hammer and hammer this nail and that will help me build this house. But because we just, you know, if you find somebody who can guide you, right? Like I can, you know, and what took me so long to find out is, you know, and to figure out myself was, you know, it's not what you learn, right? Any of us can pick up a book about meditating and, you know, learn how to meditate and still get, you know, very few results. So it's not what you learn. It's who you learn it from, right? I can learn how to play basketball on the streets with my friends and know all the ins and outs of basketball, but that's not gonna teach me to be, you know, great at the NBA, right? Ha, having an actual NBA head coach teach me will take me, you know, leaps and bounds ahead because again, it's not what you, what you know, it's, you know, and what you learn, it's who you learn it from. Interesting.

So tell me about the Miracle Healing System.

Yeah, well, I mean, it blew my mind when it— when I first engaged with it. And the fact that it was real, like, oh my God, this is real. Like, because I could literally feel— I could literally feel the energy, you know, in my body, like, moving around. Like, what the heck? And the fact that, you know, again, I'm in Utah. I was working with a lady in South Africa with a torn tendon for years, went to every, you know, type of, you know, expert that you can think of in order to help and only made it worse. I took her through a meditation and within 4 days, no more pain reaching out her window, no more pain reaching up to her cupboard. I mean, like, so I didn't really know what to call it. So I was like, wow, that's a miracle. Okay. Miracle Healing System. And so it was really just the, you know, a bit of, I guess, inadequacy of the language. Just like, I don't know what to call this other than it is a miracle. So here it is, the Miracle Healing System.. And, you know, I'm working with a lady right now in Denver who's got Lyme disease, right? Lyme disease is one of those things that plagues people, you know, for decades, right? Causes neurological issues, causes chronic pain. And, you know, her mind was blown. First, first, you know, session I took her through, she's like, oh my God, I've never felt anything like that before. That was incredible. I could, I, I've never felt energy like that before. And so this is, you know, again, there's, you know, you can take a Udemy course and learn all the ins and outs logically, But just because you know it logically doesn't know that you know it from your heart and your soul.

Yeah, that's really interesting. So as you were, as you were talking about that, it reminded me, because I know I've, I've taken Reiki, um, so people here have heard of Reiki, we've heard of other energy-type healing systems. So how does what you do compare to something like that?

Um, hard to say. I've never been trained in Reiki., you know, so, you know, this is one of those things that, you know, I, I didn't spend a lot of time, you know, delving into a lot of different healing modalities. The only reason why I didn't write off, you know, the great master who taught me how to heal was because, you know, Ed Stracher is because Peter Sage made me feel safe, right? And so, cuz it was a webinar, you know, about, you know, a, a webinar about speed reading., right? And it's like, oh my God, I could, man, speed reading would, would totally change my life. So I show up and then all of a sudden he takes this left turn and starts talking about all this, you know, spiritual stuff. Like, what is going on? Right? And I saw a little smirk on, you know, my mentor's face, just like he's heard it all before. I'm saying, okay, so there's something real here, right? Because, you know, mentor, I already trusted him. I already knew that he was at a place that I wanted to be, you know, and then he can help, you know, provide me the steps to get there. And what I have heard, right? But I haven't actually experienced it, so I can't really say. But what I've heard from Reiki is a lot of times Reiki can organize the energy of the body a lot, organize the energy of the mind, and you feel good for maybe a little bit. And I don't know how long the lasting effects are. Whereas when you heal the soul, not only can they be immediate and lasting,, but then you can keep it on, you know, you know, forever. Now that said, you know, if you are, you know, engaging in activities that, you know, say drive you into a ditch and then that causes, say, your elbow to, you know, to have chronic pain. If I come in with a wrecker and pull you out of that ditch and then you're healed, well, if you exhibit those same behaviors, well guess what? You're probably gonna find yourself back in that ditch. So it's also an understand, you know, also understanding that we need to change some of our behaviors or if we are going to still engage in some, because maybe it's necessary because the work that we do around people who are negative and they are trying to put all their negative energy onto us, well then just learning how to protect your energy and learn how to clean your energy and do that daily and create daily practices, right? Clean your energy. That's more important than cleaning your teeth. And I bet we brush our teeth every day and our energy is what makes up all of us. And so just Finding ways that, you know, that, that work with us, finding ways that allow us to start opening our minds. And really the best thing that we can do for ourselves is the second that, that we get triggered, be like, we feel, we want to say that guy's full of it. Say, I don't know what that guy's trying to say. Let me suspend my need to, to decide what it means and let me do a little bit investigating. Let me be skeptical. Sure. Yeah. Be skeptical. Nothing wrong with that. Validate and verify.

So is it necessary for people to begin to heal to identify a particular trauma, like this is what's caused this? Or is it more of— it sounds like I heard you say, like, almost a daily practice? Or is it both? How does that work?

Great question. In fact, I would say that if you diagnose yourself and say, this is why I have trauma, it might actually make it harder for you to heal.

Right?

Because then you're tied to your story.. And a lot of times when we're tied to our story, where we get a lot of secondary gains, right? Why do people bemoan, you know, all their issues? Is it because they're totally in love with crying out and being a victim? Or is it because they actually think that people are gonna come to them and say, there, there, I'm so sorry that you're dealing with that. And they're actually getting the love that they wanted. And that's how, that's their way of actually, you know, connecting. And so a lot of people have a stranglehold on that. And if you, you know, and that's why, you know, you may, you may see a friend, right? Or a family member who is struggling and suffering and you've got some brilliant ideas to be able to help them out and you might share some things and it's just like hitting a wall and it slides off because you're also not considering their secondary gains. And so the more time that we spend in researching our diagnosis or holding onto our story, the harder it can be to let go. And so if we understand that we have pain and don't really know why, it's actually a lot easier to heal. Because then you've got no blocks, you've got no mental blocks, you've got no story around that you've got to unravel and, you know, and let go of.

Interesting. That's really interesting. Because I, you know, I've heard of people, you know, doing past life regressions and things of that nature. And, you know, and saying, well, once I identified what caused this, then I was able to get over it. But I hear what you're saying is kind of more like we can start to really identify like, okay, this is happening because my father was mean to me, you know, 50 years ago, and I'm still holding on to that story and still carrying it around with me.

Yeah. Yeah. And so the, the past life regressions, right? Those, those can be incredibly powerful. And, you know, it's not for me to say how, you know, things are gonna work universally for everyone.

Mm-hmm.

Right? Somebody goes through a regression, it works for them. Right? And it, and it ends up healing them, helps them, you know, get over it. Well, great. Awesome.

Right?

Lean into what works.

Right.

Right.

Yeah. And I know, I know you weren't saying that, that we shouldn't do that. But I like, you know, the idea— what you're saying is, I guess it's not really necessary for me to understand exactly what's causing my elbow to hurt, or exactly what's causing me to have this, this chronic pain, whatever it happens, happens to be, fibromyalgia, whatever. Yeah, it's like we can just start with clearing and healing.

Yeah, exactly.

So is it, um, you mentioned that what you do with the Miracle Healing System is more of a long-term thing. So is it, I'm going to learn practices, I assume, from you when I, when I work with you.

So, you know, I don't really need to work with people for, you know, a long amount of time. But what I do is I record the sessions. And so that way, they've got them for life. And so that way, they can lean on them when they need to. And, you know, when I first learned, you know, how to, how to heal, how to heal others, heal myself, yeah, I listen to them daily and now I might listen to them, you know, maybe every other week or, you know, monthly, you know, cuz I just, you know, once, once you learn how to ride a bike, you don't really need training wheels anymore. And I might go, I might go revisit them if in order to really tap in and really, you know, dig into some of the found, you know, foundational, you know, aspects in order to make sure that I've still got, you know, the basics, you know, get the basics down so I can kind of advance, you know, with my own stuff. Sure. But yeah, I think with, yeah, with Anna Lee in South Africa. Yeah, I think it was only 3 weeks, you know, I, you know, arthritis, you know, I worked with a Navy SEAL who had arthritis and, you know, within that first session his arthritis was gone. Yeah, I still took him through other sessions and, you know, worked with another military analyst who had to sit in small rooms with terrorists. See on their phone all the gross pictures of like child trafficking and yeah. And yeah, within a couple of sessions he just talked about how free he was from his PTSD, how free and just how amazing it was for him and how, you know, now that he's got these, these skills and these tools to be able to do this forever, just like he can't be more grateful. It's just like, oh my God. Right? Because again, it's, there's, there's something almost like, you know, you mentioned how, you know, we're cursing, you know, cursing our body. And it creates almost like a Faraday cage around us. If you're familiar with the Faraday cage, well, it blocks any sort of electronic transmission. So anytime we're trying to send that signal to the source of our power, our soul, well, that darkness that we've now attracted around us is just suppressing it.

Yeah. Now you've mentioned a couple different things you've worked with people on. So you mentioned arthritis, you mentioned the one with the torn tendon. What other types of things have you helped people with?

There was a beautiful young lady who suffered from a lot of mental anguish. And when she did, she'd get this psychosomatic response where she'd get these bumps that would appear on her skin and she'd scratch them and she couldn't help but scratch and itch and itch and get these gnarly scabs all over. And so what I did is I healed that, whether you call it mental disorder or just mental anguish.. So within 2 weeks, right? She was only 2 weeks, she was in New Zealand even. So, you know, worked with, you know, been blessed to work with people across 5 different continents. And so, you know, once that went away, well then all the, you know, symptoms went away and then she was able to actually get in a relationship, right? She didn't, you know, she had no interest in boys cuz she was very afraid living in New Zealand where it's super hot wearing all, you know, long sleeve shirts everywhere she goes. And you know, I, you know, worked with a lady who suffered from an impacted spine and pain from that. And the pain from the spine will then, it ended up, you know, twisting her hips a little bit, which then went and pulled on her leg and her leg then pulled on her knee. So she had a whole, whole lot of problems. Right. And what was complicated with that is she was also, well, you know, an energy healer, but most energy healers don't know how to properly protect their energy. So what happens is, you know, you go and clean you know, at, you know, this darkness off of somebody, well, that's like taking a, you know, the lunch away from a lion. What do you think that lion's gonna do to you? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

And so if we don't know how to properly protect ourselves, well then, you know, we'll find that we'll start breaking down and then we'll start, you know, absorbing their darkness. And in fact, there was a great, you know, story about Gabor Maté. Are you familiar with Gabor Maté?

I know the name.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So he, you know, is an MD. He started, you know, finding a big awakening in ayahuasca retreats and he took a, you know, a whole gaggle a couple of people to South Africa, or South America rather, and, you know, meeting these shamans. And so, you know, everyone's going to go to the circle and they stop him. Hey, you can't join the circle. He's like, you mean I can't join the circle? I brought everyone here. And they go, yeah, you can't join the circle. You got way too much darkness on you. And they explain it to him. It's just that as he's helping people heal, he doesn't know how to protect himself. So he's just like a sponge and just absorbing it all.

Wow. Yeah, I've actually heard of people that are energy healers that do, you know, suffer themselves because they're not able to protect themselves or clear, or I guess, or both.

Yeah, yeah. And that's, um, and again, you can learn how to heal and you can maybe even learn how to protect yourself. And if you find the right people, you can learn how to do both. And because it's not what we learn, it's who we learn it from.. And when we tap into the true power of the soul, right? The, you know, the, I mean, the, the guy who taught me is a, you know, an inventor. He invented the microchip that goes, that went into every like NATO rocket. And you know, that was before he became a healer. And so this guy, you know, is a, an engineer, you know, he's got an engineer mind and he's the one telling me to get the hell outta my mind and to get and tap into my heart. And this guy's probably more brilliant than I am, but he's telling me to quiet the mind. And so I was like, okay, okay, I get it now.

Yeah, well, you know, again, it goes back to that paradigm that we have that it's all about the intellect, it's all about the ego, it's all about the brain. It's all about the physical. And you're coming at it from a completely different point of view was, as you said, you know, we've known for what we used to know intuitively as mankind for a very long time, We forgot. We kind of started coming back around to it about 100 years ago, I guess, um, and then like the 1920s, all those, all those brilliant guys are like, okay, we— it's, it's not about just the brain, it's not about just the physical part of it, um, and so, but the— and then you're going also going back to what you said about the pharmaceutical industry and health industry. It's not really designed to, to heal us, right?

Exactly. Or, or to cure even., right? It's there, it's there to prolong, you know, and, you know, and even, you know, if you look at, you know, cancer treatments, right? The, you know, where did we come up with chemotherapy? Well, we saw, you know, in war what mustard gas did to people. It shrunk their organs. You're like, okay, let's go ahead and put mustard gas in people's, in people's veins and let's just hope that it kills the disease before it kills them. Yeah.

So one of the things I asked you some questions that, you know, in the pre-interview to some questions that you thought would be good. And one of the questions you had was, What does it mean that thoughts weaken the mind? So what do you mean when you say that?

Well, we kind of been talking and dancing around that idea a lot, but you know, this is Lao Tzu, right? Thoughts weaken the mind, right? That's actually in the Tao Te Ching, right? Because when we get so convinced of our own brilliance, well then we'll tune out what's actually true and what's actually real, right? Because again, we'll, we'll, we'll be like, okay, does that make logical sense? And what did Niels Bohr say? Well, you know, are you even thinking or are you just being logical?

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, that's that. I think that's a hard kind of— it's, I know, it's a hard concept for me. And I'm just starting to really understand, you know, trying to get out of the head so much and to feel more into things and to trust the heart and to tap into that higher part of ourselves. So, yeah, it sounds like from what I hear you saying, like the meditation that we're doing is kind of quieting that part of us down so we can hear from our spirit.

Yeah. Well, and then, you know, as I guide people, I can actually tune in. I can tell when your mind's active and really help guide you to quiet your mind. So that way, you know, and so that's one of the benefits of working with me personally versus working with like a recorded meditation is that I can actually help guide you. Okay, your mind's active. Allow that to go to zero, right? In order so you don't block yourself and then give you, you know, give you tools for your mind to focus on in order to allow it to just quiet down and, and just allow your heart to expand and open up.

So that's the thing about working with you personally. So you're, you're able to pick up on the fact that someone's mind is still active and then help them to, to, uh, do that. Because I know a lot of people, you know, they do, they struggle with meditation because they're like, okay, I have to stop my thoughts, right? And so then they're, then it's, oh, I'm having a thought. Then they beat themselves up over having a thought. Then they're like, well, I might as well get up and leave because This isn't working anyway.

That's such a, that's such a brilliant point. And the thing is, is it's not about stopping thoughts because if you use thoughts to stop thoughts, well then you're just thinking, right? And so, you know, if you bring energy to something, you energize it, you bring neutrality to something, you neutralize it. And there's, you know, a brilliant man by the name of Jose Silva. You ever heard of him? The Silva Method? I've heard of him. Yeah. So, you know, Silva Method is this idea of, you know, creating like a window in your mind and see the accomplished event outside of that. And so I use that frame for some people who have a hard time quieting their mind is as you close your eyes, just picture a window and all the thoughts that come through, just imagine they're birds or imagine that they're animals that just float right by the window. Thank you for making my view look better, but I have no interest in following you. It's not about not having thoughts, it's about not following your thoughts. And because the more that you can allow your mind to observe your thoughts without following your thoughts, the stronger it becomes. Because the mind is meant to be an antenna, right? Like a rudder, right? The heart is the source of, the source of power, right? The heart, you know, and we measured this, that, that, you know, the heart's magnetic field extends 3,000 times further than, than the electrical impulses of the brain. And then we can look at that. And since we live in a fractal universe, we can look at that in a planet., right? Look at Jupiter. Jupiter's nothing but this, you know, chaos of electrical storms. But, you know, does that lightning escape the atmosphere? Not that I've seen. But that magnetosphere, right, that comes from the core, that comes from its heart, well, it extends beyond the, the asteroid belt, extends beyond Mars, and it reaches Earth's orbit.

Wow. I didn't know that.

Wow.

Yeah. And so, and so without the other planets and their, you know, their magnetic, you know, the magnetosphere protecting us from, you know, the sun's, you know, radiation,, right? So it's not just our, our ozone layer that protects us, it's also the other planets as well. And that's, you know, that's what the idea of, of the law of attraction is, that you're sending the heart signal out to attract it to you.

Okay. So let's talk about the law of attraction because that's something that's, I think, kind of intriguing to people. And they say, and, and you get people from on both sides of, of course, some people say, well, I've been trying to practice the law of attraction, it's not working for me. You know, I'm still, I'm still not well. So how do we start to tap into that?

Yeah, well, I mean, such a great question. And the thing is, if we're trying to become abundant and wealthy and we decide that the only way to be wealthy is to have money, well, aren't we just saying that we're poor and we're just doubling down on the fact that we're poor? But if we are then showing gratitude for everything in our lives,, you know, for, you know, is abundance maybe somebody coming up and giving you a free gift, right? Is abundance maybe coming up and somebody, you know, having an enlightening conversation and you walk away just feeling like, feeling better, feeling lighter, feeling stronger, right? And then the more you give gratitude, well, then the more, you know, just like a little kid, right? Are you going to give a little kid a giant responsibility or you give them a small responsibility and build them up for a big responsibility? And, you know, the it seems, right? Again, nobody knows the truth with a capital T, but it seems, and relying on people like Joe Dispenza, they really talk about how the quantum realm is run on a rule set. And that rule set is that if you can see yourself as Neville Goddard even talks about, see yourself as the wish already fulfilled, but not just see it, feel it, right? Because feeling is the secret. And so imagine that your goal is to get a house, right? Your dream house. And that dream house, what would it feel like to be in that house the day after you signed all the paperwork, right? Maybe your family's there. Maybe you can smell the smells, right? The more variables you can put in there and the more that you're going to attract it to you. And this is the way that the law of attraction has been brought to me and been told to me. And to kind of share a bit of an anecdote, you know, I, you know, we don't always get to see around the bend in the river. So things can, can show up as abundance and we don't necessarily understand that it's abundance yet. Right. And, you know, I, I joined a, a coaching program with a man by the name of Pete Vargas and it was a Stage to Scale. And, you know, so I'm going through this and, you know, I'm doing my manifestation, you know, stuff, you know, daily. And at the end of this coaching program, right, a bunch of people there, everybody said, hey, we're gonna do something that we've never done before. We're gonna give you guys a $5K gift. Okay, well that wasn't $5K in my wallet, but it was $5K gift. And he said, oh, you know what? You just have to make it to Miami or Denver. Okay, well you know what? There's a friend of mine who I'd really like to connect with in Denver. And then only that, but I was just interviewed by somebody, you know, on their podcast and they said, hey, let me know if you're ever in Denver. Hmm. Okay. So I reached out to him and said, hey, guess what? I'm going to be in Denver. He said, oh great, man. I'll go ahead and put you in my guest bedroom., oh, well, look at that, another gift. And then when I was at the workshop there in Denver, you know, as I was about to, to leave the first day, he texted me and said, hey, I'm at my friend's house, you should come over. Okay, well, that's good timing. So I go over there. Well, she's suffering from Lyme disease. Not only that, but she's got a whole, you know, a whole slew of people in her, you know, field who could need my, need my help. And so as I'm talking to her, you know, we are in a lot of alignment, and I started working with her, and now she's already reaching out to her friends, and her friends are already showing interest in working with me. And so abundance may not just be that a suitcase full of cash is going to fall into your life, right? It's a matter of training your reticular activating system to be grateful for. If you are trying to manifest abundance and something good happens for you, thank it, show gratitude so you're reinforcing that, so something else can come in bigger and better and greater and start building momentum.

I love that.

Thank you for that story. I think that's really important. And it's an understanding I just recently came to. I just was— I forgot what it was I was reading very recently, last couple of weeks. And they were talking about different forms of abundance. Because we tend to think of abundance as money, right? As stuff like that. But it said you can have the abundance of great communications, as you brought up, or you know, someone might give you a gift, you know, it could come in that form. And we all, most of us, we all pretty much have abundance in very, in various ways in our lives, we tend to focus on what we don't have. So even those people that have a lot of wealth, then they tend to focus on other things that they don't have there, they might be extremely lonely. And that gratitude practice that you talked about, which I think is really important. Understanding, okay, yeah, I do have a lot going on for me. And, and this might come to me in a different form. And it's kind of actually, it was more fun when it comes to you in a form like it did for you. That whole roundabout thing, it just, it makes it more interesting.

Well, and not only that, but it's also the way that, that life works, right? There's no such thing as a straight line, except in the mind of a human, right? We say the shortest distance between, you know, to any two points is a straight line. Well, try driving to the grocery store in a straight line and see how well that works. Yeah, right. And just like a river, it winds. The thing is, is we may be trying to manifest abundance and then scarcity pops up. Well, then what do we do? Do we react to our outer world or do we realize that it's our inner world consciousness? Right. Would Max Planck say consciousness is primary? So then if we close our eyes and say, okay, I don't see beyond this bend in the river, So that must mean that in a nonlinear dynamic, something better— there's a shortcut here that I just don't see. So something great is happening for me. And if we already know that we're on the right river of life and we know it's going to take us to our destination, but it bends in a way in which is counterintuitive, do we really freak out if we already know that we're on the right river?

Yeah, that's a really good point too, because again, the older I get, the more I can see that The things that I thought were detours or obstacles actually led to— led me to a better place. But at the time, I couldn't see it. And that's, that's that. That's the trust. That's the faith to have that we're on the right river, right? So when you're on a river and the river is flowing, you don't really have to do anything. The river is going to take you to where you, where you need to be. So we don't have to, we don't have to fight, we can just kind of enjoy the ride.

Yeah, 100%.

So Joshua, how do people, if they want to reach you, they want to work with you, how do people work with you?

Yeah, well, again, that same website, freemefrompains.com, right? It's a landing page with a few testimonials so you can see what other people are saying. And there's a great way to download that free gift. And that's a great way to just go ahead and get started. You get started with this. If you already know for a fact, hey, I need to reach out to this guy, Well, then you'll see a button there to set up a healing plan, and then we can go from there.

Yeah, that sounds great. So it's freemefrompains.com. Yep, people can reach you there. Joshua, thanks so much for being here today. Thanks for sharing your, your wisdom. I think it's going to— I know it's going to help a lot of people to really open up to possibilities, you know, how— because, you know, we can become so frustrated with certain things in our lives, and we go to these so-called experts that aren't helping. So this is a, an alternative or actually supplement to whatever our people are doing.

Well, and the thing is, is I was so hardheaded for so long. I was so convinced of my brilliance, right? I was right there in the depths of, you know, what Jordan Peterson would say, that Luciferian, you know, intellect that only made my life worse. And, you know, and so there's nothing special about me. I just simply had the right mentors. That, that's it. Just like, you know, if you look at people who are succeeding in business, well, it's probably cuz they also had the right mentors. And so it's, again, it's all about, you know, who you learn it from. And so nothing special about me. And if you want to, you know, learn how to heal, well then reach out. Let's get you on that path.

Sounds great. Thanks for being here.

Yeah, my pleasure. I thank you for holding the space. Really appreciate it. That's been a great conversation.

Yeah. Enjoy your afternoon.

Oh, thanks, man.

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