From Caregiver to Purpose-Driven Leader: Caren Paskel’s Journey of Transformation- EP 418

You know you need something, you're just not sure what. You've been listening, you're doing the work, but there's still this feeling that you're circling the same place, like you're waiting for the thing that finally moves you. Now maybe you've thought about working with me one-on-one. Maybe something's held you back, the timing, the money, or you're just not sure you're ready yet. I get that. And I want you to know there's still a place for you. I built a resource for exactly this moment, guided meditations for when the waves hit and you just need to breathe. Workbooks to help you get out of your head and onto the page, ebooks on what near-death experiences tell us about the people we've lost, and whether they're really gone, a full course for widows and widowers who are ready to find their way back to living, and a full course for the evidence of the afterlife. And all of it is available for pay what you want. Nobody gets turned away because of money. I think these resources are valuable, but I don't want to hold them back because you don't have the money to pay for them. You don't have to wait until you're ready for coaching. The next step might be a lot smaller than you think. To find out, go to grief2growth.com/store. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/store. And check out the resources I've made for you. Close your eyes and imagine. What are the things in life that cause us the greatest pain? The things that bring us grief are challenges, challenges designed to help us grow, to ultimately become what we were always meant to be. We feel like we've been buried. But what if, like a seed, we've been planted? And having been planted, we grow to become a mighty tree. Now, open your eyes. Open your eyes to this way of viewing life. Come with me as we explore your true, infinite, eternal nature. This is Grief to Growth. And I am your host, Brian D Smith. Hi there, I'm Brian D Smith, and welcome to Grief to Growth. And whether you're a brand new listener, or you've been with us for a while, I'm so glad you're here. This podcast is all about navigating life's challenges, uncovering life's deepest, deeper purposes, and discovering how we can grow through what we've gone through. Together, we explore the big questions of life, like who are, who are we? Why are we here? And how can we live a meaningful life even in the face of loss? László. So today we're diving into the power of transformation and the courage that it takes to reinvent yourself. And you know, we're all about that here. My guest is Karen Paskal. She's a, she's a true example of what it means to evolve through adversity. Karen is a bestselling author. She's a speaker, and she's the founder of the Self Evolution Education Foundation. She's also the author of The Power of Self-Belief, a book that's inspired countless of people to rise above their circumstances to create meaningful change in their lives. Her story is one of resilience and reinvention. As the former owner of N Soul Yoga, she managed multiple studios while caring for her husband during her— his battle with the terminal illness. And this profound life experience, coupled with the challenges of the global pandemic, pushed Karen to reimagine her life's mission. Today, she empowers others to tap into their inner strength, to build supportive communities, and to embrace their own transformations. So in this episode, what we're going to do is we're going to explore how Karen turn personal loss into a life of purpose. And she'll share actionable insights to help you do the same. We'll talk about the role of self-belief in overcoming life's biggest obstacles, the importance of self-care for caregivers, and how building community can fuel your personal growth. If you've ever felt stuck or unsure of how to move forward, Karen's wisdom will inspire you to take that next step. So stay tuned for this empowering conversation. And afterwards, join us at grieftogrowth.com/community community to carry on the conversation there. With that, I'd like to welcome Karen Pascal.

Thank you for the beautiful introduction. Very grateful to be here with you. Thank you.

Yeah, I'm really looking forward to sharing this time with you today. You're just a great example of the type of people that we have on Grief 2 Growth. A lot of us have been transformed through the transition of a loved one. And I always like to honor that person that's contributed so much to our life. So tell us about your husband, his name, and just tell us about him.

I love talking about my husband because it keeps the spirit of him always alive. And I— that's what happened through his passing is I just kept sharing the story and I still feel very close with him and I know that, um, he's forever with me in this way. Plus I feel that because I'm here and he's not, um, one of my responsibilities and my joys is to carry his legacy and the mission that he wanted. And he was really all about impacting the world and making major change. And so I decided to carry the baton because why not? And it really inspired me to do so. It gave me a purpose that was much greater than I had ever thought for myself. So his name is David Prentiss, and I met him through online dating. And it was like just the last, you know, I was kind of giving up at that moment. And I had this one last date with, with him. And I was like, you know what, I'll just go meet this person. It sounds like a fun event. And I didn't even have a care about it. I wasn't looking for anything really, because I had just been so disappointed by everyone else. And so I just thought, oh, okay, this is— this isn't going to be my soulmate. And it really was one of those love at first sight story where I had never experienced that before. So, um, sometimes it's hard to believe in something you haven't experienced for yourself. And I had been married before, so this was different. And I saw right away he, he was 12 years younger than me. But I saw within him— he smiled so big from afar and we spotted each other, and there was just this, this ray of self-belief. That's really all I can explain it as. It was like a sunshine, and I felt the energy, um, of this man's belief in himself, this, this confidence. And it wasn't arrogance, it was just this, this, this deep sense of of drive and determination within him and knowing that he could accomplish anything that he put his mind to. That just came off, you know, that's just what he was breathing. And so we did. We just— that was it. The moment we met, we were together. We, you know, had a 6-year time together. He was diagnosed with brain cancer when he was 28. And that was a few years ago, more than a few, about 6 years ago. And he had a 2-year battle with that. First year was a brain tumor out of nowhere, it felt like, because there was nothing, no symptoms, and a big seizure that took him to the hospital. And that was a grade 2, I think it was called an astrocytoma. And In that year, he actually got better, a lot better. And we, we decided to recreate ourselves in so many ways. Our relationship became closer, and we really decided to think about what matters to us the most. And we were starting to work together as well and thinking bigger and how can we, we help more people in their, in their health and their vibrancy and their success and their businesses, because we had both started our own business. And it was beautiful. But after that one year, he did— another tumor grew back, and that was the terminal diagnosis. So he had a second surgery, and it was, it was, it was a short amount of time after that that he declined and, and passed.

So, um, you were his caregiver during that time, and you were, you were young, and you guys only been together for a short time. What was that experience like being a caregiver for someone that you expected to live, you know, for a long time with?

It was funny, we always made jokes about him being younger. And, you know, I was— if you think about, you know, not everybody, of course, but naturally we, we think that if we're older, we'll, we'll be the ones to, to go through things. He would have to be the one to go take care of me, you know, first. And so, um, it was a shock to everybody. I think that it was only one year after we were married that this happened, and we had just started our lives, really. I had just opened a yoga studio, and he had just started his own real estate business. And we felt like this unstoppable power couple, really. It was pretty incredible. So for that to have happened, it was like everything had to stop and we had to do a reevaluation and reexamining. And it was not easy to be not just a caregiver, but his caregiver, because this man was extremely independent. And he was stubborn as well. And he was so young. He didn't want to be cared for. Like, you know, I mean, who really does? He didn't want to be in the situation. And it killed him to think that I had to take care of him. You know, he didn't want me to have that role. And it was really hard for him to believe that I was okay with it. That I was happy to do it. I think he thought, and he often said, you know, I get it if, you know, you didn't sign up for this. I remember him saying that one time. And he really thought that I might leave because during the pandemic and we had just moved into a new home and gotten back from overseas and he had a tumor growing that we didn't know. The MRI we just knew something bad was going on. He was having seizure symptoms. He wasn't well. But the whole situation was so stressful, I ended up getting really sick. I was so inflamed, I ended up going to the hospital. But right before that, I just lost it. I had a breakdown, and I had to just get out of the house. And I went to my mom's house because it was empty. They were in Florida because they're snowbirds. It was winter. And I just had to have quiet and just come back to myself. But I've been on this path of self-development for so long that I knew if I didn't take care of myself and do what I needed to do right then, that it was going to be worse than just a pancreatitis attack and in the hospital for 2 days. Like, it could be very destructive. And so I was at my breaking point. He thought I was abandoning him. He thought I had, had left and I was done. And I was like, no, I just needed space and time to come back to myself and to heal because I was falling apart. And, you know, he didn't grow up in that kind of environment to learn about self-care and healing. It was pretty rough. He was on his own at— he was— he had his own job. He told me, he's like, I became an entrepreneur at 8 years old. I started mowing lawns to make money because there wasn't enough food on the table. I wanted more food. I wanted to figure out how to get the things that I wanted to get. So he started making money at a very, very young age and learning that, oh, there are resources out there. I just have to, you know, work at it.

Right.

So I think that I was the person who inspired him to take care of himself, to slow down more. And when he got sick, that's really— we, we focused on that more. But to become a caregiver at, at a younger age with someone who's a lot younger who you're married to, for me, was a very, um, interesting dynamic, right, that I had to, you know, be sensitive about because he, you know, didn't want a lot of things. And so I had to kind of go about it in a different way and get creative about it. Also, thank goodness, my brother-in-law, which is his brother, was living with us. And so I didn't have to do it alone. And I think that was one of the elements that helped me to thrive and even come out of this with any ability to move forward.

Yeah, I was going to ask you about that, doing it alone, because I know that, you know, being a caregiver is an incredible burden— or, or, but I hate the word burden— but incredible responsibility to carry, uh, especially by yourself. And so many people, you know, they don't know like when and how to reach out for help. So it sounds like you did have that, the opportunity of having your brother-in-law there.

He was living in the house. That was you know, I mean, David was having seizure symptoms a lot. And so there was always sort of this emergency state that we were in. And if he wasn't there, I don't think I would have ever gotten any rest or sleep. I don't know how I would have because I was in the fight or flight state. I was in survival mode.

Sure.

And so that allowed me to help myself enough to manage to take care of myself in, in ways. And also I had to open up to more support. I had to open up to friends and family, even though it felt like— that felt like it was bombarding me because I had no personal space, because everyone wanted to help. But once I let go and let other people in and help, then that took a lot of pressure off of me. And I think it was really important for me as a caregiver to ask for help, to embrace it, really to let it in, to allow other people, um, to support him as well. I think it was good for him, and it allowed me to have more of a relationship as husband and wife than just caregiver, which I think often— oh my gosh, those roles, right? Those roles change, right? And I didn't want to lose my husband, and he didn't want to lose his wife. And I think that having more help and support really allowed us to still stay very intimate in the husband and wife relationship and feel that connection still, especially so early on in our, our relationship.

Yeah, exactly. So did you— when you knew that he was going to transition, or you accepted that, did you talk about what life would be like after. Stay with us.

We'll be right back.

You know, one of the hardest things about grief— most of the people in your life just don't get it. They want you to be further along than you are. They get uncomfortable when you bring it up, so you stop bringing it up. And that's why I started writing. My Substack is where I go deeper. Thoughts I don't always get to on the podcast. Essays on consciousness, on continuing bonds, on what it actually means to carry a loss and still build a life. The stuff that used to keep me up at night written out in a way that I hope meets you in the morning. But here's what I didn't expect when I started it. The community that showed up. People who are doing exactly what you're doing. Listening, learning, trying to find their footing. Readers who comment, who share their own stories, who remind each other that none of us are as alone in this as we feel. And that's what the Substack has become. A place to go deeper with me and to find your people. It's free to subscribe. Find me at grief2growth.com/substack. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/substack. Or just go to Substack and search for Grief to Growth. I hope to see you there.

I so didn't want to think about that. And For me, being older, David said something when he met me. He said, you know, I, I've dated the 20-year-olds, and I was in my mid-30s at the time when we met. And he said, it's such a relief to talk to somebody who, you know, has their shit together. That's what he said. Who's— who had like a job and who has things to do. Because when we first met, I couldn't even meet him because I was hosting, um, a Life and Teacher yoga training. And there were 2 weekends that were blocked up. And so our date had to be, you know, scheduled pretty much the next month. And he wasn't used to that. And he loved that. He loved that I had things going on and that I had purpose and I was doing something with my life. And so because of that, I think that I knew, even though I didn't want to think about it, I knew it was going to be okay because I had meaning and fulfillment in my life. Before I met him. That increased through the time I met him. He was the one who really stood by me in opening up my own business. That was extremely difficult for me to do. And, you know, he believed in me at the time more than I believed in, in myself. And I used that. And so I think that I became more empowered with him. And even as a caregiver, I built more strength in what I had to do for him and us in the house and the dogs and my business. That, that internal strength— I knew I was gonna be okay, but I didn't really want to think about it. But the part that I think I had this realization, I talked about it on another podcast with the, the Life Shift, and it was like The moment that he told me that he saw my success, that he knew of his impact on my success, because I completely shifted my business in the pandemic and became more successful in closing my studios while my husband was sick, while the house was under construction. Than, right, than when circumstances were normal.

Wow.

And so I think that he vicariously lived through me. He enjoyed watching me, you know, recreate my business. And, and he told me, and he got to speak it out on our— I think it was our third wedding anniversary that we made it to. Right before, like the month before he died. And he got to tell me with tears in his eyes, you know, I'm— he basically said, I'm okay to die. And I didn't know that I was giving him that by doing what I was doing, by becoming who I was becoming. So that moment, because I was always just focused on— there was no time to like reflect on it, like, oh, I'm so proud of myself. It was like that moment that he recognized it and was like, you're a badass, you've done this, and I'm okay to die now because I know that the person that I impacted the most that I never even thought would be is, is you. And I can leave knowing that, you know, he was trying to change the world and he didn't realize that it's more meaningful when you actually change one person and you get to see that person's change. It was just the greatest gift for him.

Wow.

And so he kind of like had peace, you know, at that time. He was fighting and fighting and fighting the whole time, battling the cancer, and I'm gonna live, I'm gonna live, I'm gonna live. And that's just, that's just who he was. But then as things started to get real bad and decline, he found peace and seeing me in my growth.

Yeah.

In my— because I grieved a lot during the 2 years that he was alive. So he saw me put that grief, you know, to, to growth. That's, that's really what happened. I chose to do that, and he helped me do that in multiple ways. And that recognition in that moment was so incredible for both of us. But I, I think in that moment, I also realized I've set myself up for when he— for after, you know. And, and we didn't need to then talk about it. We did talk about, you know, all of the, the things that you need to in terms of if this happens, what do we, you know, to planning financially, those things. We did talk about that so that I wasn't overwhelmed with everything. So we, we went through the setup and the stages but we didn't really talk about what life would look like because I think we wanted to just hold on and be present to what we had. And he knew I was going to be okay, and I knew I was going to be okay too. I didn't know what it was going to look like, but I had to focus on each moment in the moment versus the future.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So I want to make sure I have the timeline right. So when you met him, you— did you have the yoga studio at the time?

No, I just was leaving. Like, it was tumultuous. It was, it was not a good place. I was exiting from a company that I had been— it was my brother's company, but there were many owners and there were disagreements with ownership. They were trying to push him out and franchise, and that's all okay, businesses change. But they wanted me to take more of a leadership role but without the control of how I wanted to lead. And so, um, I knew I had to leave, and it was very upsetting because I was there for 11 years and I built a whole following. I was managing many teachers, many, um, studios. I, I had benefits. It was really, you know, a good job. This was very difficult for me, and he came at that right perfect time when I was in the transition. I was still kind of there finishing things up, and I was planning to open my own studio and, and still work with my brother a little bit. He was in California, so we were both going to have our own studios but still teach together and do trainings together. And I was terrified of opening my own business and doing it by myself. And I met David right, right at that point. That was crucial where he was just like, you can do this. This is, you know, you've got nothing to lose and everything to gain. And that attitude has stuck with me. I've got nothing to lose and everything to gain. That is truly the attitude of growth. If you want to grow in any circumstance that's challenging, it's always an opportunity for growth. So I have that mindset of there's nothing to lose, there's everything to gain. And he said the only thing that you might lose is some money. You know, people lose money when they start a business sometimes. And it did happen. I found a location, signed a lease, put in some money. It fell through, lost the money, but it was no big deal because that is just part of the stepping stones of entrepreneurship, right?

Right.

And he understood that. He's like, there's no failure, there's just learning and there's just growing. Like, that is, that is really true. If I never give up, right? See this through. So that was the, the time in which we met and he was that power of self-belief. Um, the catalyst, I call it. For me to really step into my entrepreneurship and, and go for this and start my own business.

So you had the, you had the yoga studios and then the pandemic hit. Is that what caused you to, to have to shut, shut those down?

Yes, I was maybe 3 years in and my business was going really well and I had a second studio in Detroit and I was almost opening a third studio. And right as the third— I'd signed the lease to that too— he, he was sick. He got the, the— he had the first seizure. And he looked at me and just said, Karen, because he saw how stressed I was with managing 2 yoga studios and him not being well. And we had just gotten a puppy as well, a Great Dane puppy. So he said, I think you— he's like, I love you and I think you would be— you're going to do amazing no matter what you decide. But I think we need to reevaluate everything. And instead of adding more on our plate, You know, another studio for you. You know, I, I don't— I think you need to talk to your landlord about this. Because I felt like, why? I already committed. I'm very loyal, right? I already committed and I signed this lease. He's like, circumstances have changed, and, and that's okay. And I'm so grateful that I decided not to open that third studio. My goodness. And so When he got sick, I'm trying to think of the timeline. It wasn't the pandemic yet. That came a little over a year later.

Okay.

So around the second diagnosis hit terminal, like a month or two later, the pandemic hit. And then that was when the mandates came for the shutdown. And it was a total of 7 months of my studio being completely shut down. So I had to figure out how to do my business with, with no studio available, right?

Wow. So you're going through life and, you know, it's interesting how life seems to kind of push us forward or kick us forward sometimes, or, you know, what, what are your thoughts about that? Do you feel like it's— is this some sort of a plan, or what are your thoughts on that?

I think the universe has our back. I, I think that sometimes it's hard to get out of our own way and we just wait. I, I was always the type, um, to stay small, and so I'm grateful for what the pandemic did for me and my business because I probably would have stayed in the studio setting for quite a long while because it was going well and I felt responsibility to the students and the teachers. And but I was bigger than that, and it allowed me to let go and, and, and just get out of the lease. And, you know, it forced me— yeah, it forced me to look so deep within myself. I call it getting in touch with my soul's desires and the wake-up call, really, that's what it was in terms of my greater mission and purpose in life and, and being really true to myself. I don't think I could have done what I've done staying in that role. There was too much day-to-day. It took everything out of me. So relieving myself of that allowed me to open up to a much greater plan um, where I felt more divinely aligned.

Yeah, you know, uh, as you were saying that, it reminded me when I was, uh, young— let's see, it was 27, 28 years ago because my daughter just turned 28— I got fired from a job when she was 9 months old. And it was— it sounds kind of similar to you. It was a job, it was, it was okay, and I was making good money, but I wasn't really happy there. And it just Suddenly, the next thing I knew, I, I, they just let me go one day and led to bigger and better things. I, I'm a believer that sometimes the universe does kind of kick us along when we, when we need to make a move. But that, that, that transition can be so, so painful. I remember hearing a sermon once, it was called, um, It's Hell in the Hallway, right? Because you hear the thing like when one door opens another one, or one door closes another one opens. But that, that transition period where you know, the pandemic shuts down your studios, or your, your husband's diagnosed with a terminal illness. It's— how do you, how do you navigate that and have belief that things are going to be better, you know, eventually?

My goodness. Well, you know, I just think that life is so incredible. And I don't think that anything really happens to you. I think that happens— life happens not even for you. It does happen for you sometimes, but it also happens from you. And I believe we're the creators, we're the ultimate creators, whether we know it or not. And so I believe that I created this circumstance for my growth, and I just decided to step into that fully and believe that this is all part of the, the grander plan. And I stopped questioning and playing a victim. So I became the victor through gratitude and blessings. So when I think about my husband, my mindset is instead of, why did this have to happen to me? I lost the love of my life. Um, I'm never gonna find anyone like this again. This is so terrible. I think God gave me this beautiful human for 6 years that completely transformed me. I now have strengths that I never would have had, and I'm living my life in such a beautiful way. I believe in myself, and I wouldn't have been able to do that if I didn't have the mirror in front of me, which was him, right? He challenged me and I just didn't have a choice. I just, okay, we have to do this, or okay, I have to do this over and over every day that I just got so used to. It's no, not a challenge anymore. It's an opportunity and a yes, I can do it. I came from an upbringing where I was coddled, I was spoiled, I was the baby in the family. My brother and sister are 8 and 10 years older. So when I came, it was like, everyone's just going to take care of little Karen. You know, she's the saving grace of this family. And I was really shy and really introverted, and I complained a lot, you know, and I got taken care of by others. So I learned how to take care of myself finally, like, fully in my later 30s because of my husband. So I think gratitude. I learned how to be grateful. I learned how to be of service. I learned, you know, how to contemplate on higher truths of life, all before I met David. So my path of self-development, self-evolution, which I— is my business, that I think is what got me through everything and allowed me to become a greater person from it.

So you said you were on that path before you met David.

Do you—

and so you came from this background, you were kind of coddled. What do you think actually put you on that path? That's— was that just something that was within you, or where did that come from?

I was always an artist, so I was always creating, but it wasn't until about 15 or 16 I started to develop panic and anxiety And my mom, um, suggested going to yoga. And there was a family— my brother's friend actually— who owned this yoga studio, the only studio around. So of course I, I went to that class, and that was the first time where I had a spiritual connection with myself. Um, I saw myself differently, and I just had a different experience. And with that It was so profound. I, I kept it up. I kept my yoga practice up. And at some point, because I was doing so much yoga, I just naturally came into this role because people wanted a yoga teacher wherever it was. It was— if I was a counselor at camp, if I was, you know, in school, or in— I worked at, um, I was in art school at the time in California. I'm dating, um, someone who managed a gym. Hey, you go to yoga all the time. Why don't you teach a class? And I was like, I don't, I don't really know what I'm doing, but I wasn't trained in this. But it's like, it's okay. And I just found this love of speaking about life while I was guiding people. I, I was guiding people physically and mentally and spiritually, and it came natural, and I stuck with that. And then eventually I did take a yoga training But that led me to start reading on and reflecting on the higher knowledge from, from, you know, yoga philosophy. So I started to learn more about how to live versus making a living. And this was education that I had never received in all the years of schooling. And I just took to it. I mean, I was like a sponge and thought, My God, you know, I've had anxiety, depression. I've been on all this medication, sleep disorders, you know, body image stuff, uh, and, and a host of other symptoms. And I discovered this knowledge and it completely transformed me. I became so much happier and healthy. I got to— I just naturally went off all my medications that I was on, and I was able to leave my first relationship, my first marriage, and get out of that because that was very unhealthy for me. So I was already transforming myself, healing myself. And I went to India, and I even— right before I met David, I, I had gone to India for a month, and I was ready to go again the next year for another month voyage to be in proximity with my teachers on an ashram. It was called the Vedanta Academy. And that, that it was clear to him that this was my path. I said, he's like, how can you leave me for 4 weeks? I said, well, I already had this plan before I met you, so I'm not going to cancel it, but you have to understand, this is what I do. I'm going to leave often to develop myself because then I'll be a better person for you and everybody in the world, also for me. So I think I prioritized my, myself evolution because of the positive impact it had on such an early age.

That's awesome. That's, that's really awesome. Um, you mentioned earlier, you know, the way that you choose to look at what, what you've gone through, you know, and, you know, so many times, you know, this is just human nature, we look at what we've lost and we can— you said we can, we can play the victim, we can say nothing ever goes right for me. Um, can you give people a hint? How do we get to this attitude of gratitude? How do we start to, to go down that path? Because again, especially once we lose somebody, it's really easy to say nothing is right. I mean, the whole world looks bleak.

Yes, this is a common theme that I hear from people who have lost and from many of the people that I work with as well. And what I learned is called bhakti yoga, which is the path of yoga for your mind, and it is the path of devotion. And so bhakti yoga really just means recognizing and being aware of the innumerable blessings that are showered upon you at all times. And so it's an acute awareness followed by a feeling of gratitude. And so I started to practice just being aware of the fact that my eyes can see, and it takes, you know, a million different operations in my eye to, to look at you and see what I'm seeing. The fact that my breath is automatic, it's happening without me even thinking about that. The subconscious mind created my, my organs and healing process. I mean, we can go into the blessings, right? So it's being aware in any given moment. Oh, I can Even if something smells bad, I'm just grateful I can smell. I'm aware of the gift, right? So whenever— it's a practice is, is the answer. Gratitude is a practice, but it takes more. I tell people all the time, it's not just writing down everything you're grateful for, because what happens when all those things change or are gone? Where does your gratitude go? So gratitude can actually be quite selfish. Oh, I'm so grateful it's a beautiful day because the sun's shining and the temperature is what I like it to be. Well, what happens tomorrow when it's not, when it's gray outside? Are you not grateful anymore? So you, you, you have to practice being aware of how blessed you are as is.

Yeah, yeah.

At this very moment. And when you develop that practice on your own And again, again, it's okay to make lists, but you have to tap into the feeling. It has to become a feeling of overjoy versus overwhelm. And most of the time, every, every day I practice this, I, I feel it well. I become feeling of blessing. It, it's so intense in such a good way that it brings a tear to my eyes. And that's how I know I feel it, that I've come into the feeling of gratitude. Not just saying I'm grateful for this, that, or the other and making a list. Oh, I made my gratitude list. Great. I journaled and journaled in my gratitude, and now I'm off with my day. For it to empower you, for it, for it to keep your mind at ease, see, when you're in true gratitude, it actually fosters a deep sense of joy and happiness within you that cannot be broken despite anything. And that's what happened with me because I practiced it before. I knew how to practice. I kept practicing. So I felt this blessing every day of my life despite the changes that David was going through, the pandemic, whatever was happening. I didn't look at it as a loss. I looked at it as a change. And that's a different wording. I often look at things and decide, is this in the positive or negative in terms of how it's affecting me? What am I saying? How is it affecting me? What am I thinking and feeling? And I work to reframe it. I come up with a new language. There's an older language of struggle, and I, I've identified some of those keywords for me, and I choose to change the wording because it brings about a different feeling. So this is the practice, and it takes I believe it, it, it takes mentorship, coaching, you know, support. It, it's not easy to instill this attitude and new mindset in your life unless you are practicing it consistent and around that energy. So that's why I really believe in community. Even if you can't afford one-on-one mentorship, I've created communities so you can be around this higher vibration of feeling, you know, blessings. I had this— I hear this a lot, people in the caregiving group where they talk about the gut punch, you know, that, that feeling that you get stabbed when you get bad news and, oh, we got more bad news and this is, you know, horrible and there's more bad news. And I don't know how many— how much more bad news I can take. And I try to reframe and remind everybody that it's just information. It's not bad news. It's, it's not bad or good. It might seem that way to you because it's not what you want to hear, but it's just information. And so we get to decide what we're going to do with that information. And, and the blessing is that we get information to help navigate the next steps and stages of life and of caregiving and of the patient, etc. So this type of thinking is different from the victim mentality. You know, you're, you're grateful to receive some information and now you get to reflect on that and you get to have different choices and view it in the way that is more positive. And for me, that's the difference between being, you know, happy and being absolutely miserable. And you have a choice. And for me, life is so precious, especially watching a 30-year-old die who was so animated. You know, and so strong, this big 200-pound guy, just zest for life. I, I watched the life leave him, his body. For me, I don't take one day for granted. So even if I wake up, so to speak, on the wrong side of the bed and I'm not feeling my best, whatever, I'm just like, thank God I'm alive. So I've trained my brain immediately when I wake up to realize the gift of life. And if you realize that, you understand that life is about comings and goings. It's a constant state of renewal. So I don't look at death as anything bad. I look at death as graduation, continuation. I look at it as, um, stepping up in your journey and your path. So even though I miss him and I didn't want him to leave, and I still wish we were in a marriage and he was in the, you know, his present form. I know he's gone on to greater and bigger things, so I'm like, God bless, that's his journey. I don't take it personal. I'm just so grateful I got to be a part of it for 6 years.

Wow, that's just— that's incredible. Uh, you said so much there that I want to talk about. One of the things is that you know, this, this practice— and I completely concur with you that gratitude is a practice. It's not something that necessarily comes naturally, and it has to be a feeling. We can't just make a list or anything. But the right time to start that practice is, as you did, before you get into the crisis. You know, if you can be blessed enough to do that before you get— because people might look at something like what you do and say, well, I don't need that right now because I'm not in grief, or I'm not a caretaker. Um, I, I try to tell people, start it today, no matter where you are, because something is going to happen. As you said, life is a series of changes. It's always coming, you know, comings and goings. And we, we tend to want to cling to things. And it's only when something like what happened to you that we realize nothing is permanent, and it's not even going to go the way we think it's going to go. We— you said you're 12 years old, you're— it's like, I'm going to go for— and I say to my wife all the time, I'm older than she is. I'm going to go first because I truly believe that. But I don't know that. My daughter passed at 15 and it was, it was sudden. So let's talk about what we talked a lot about, what you have done. Let's talk about what you do now. And you talked about helping people build community and, and have self-belief. So tell people what it is you do now.

I think that I inspire people. You know, to, to, to grow and to evolve and to not settle. And that this is the mission and true purpose of life, to come into your highest state. And that is again, um, something that I discovered through my studies and my journey. And so I do believe in perfecting yourself, uniting with your true self, and that, that is the process of life. That is what we are here for. And we can use all of the circumstances, all the relationships, everything to, to unite with ourselves. Then we're always going to be growing, and with growth there's always outgrowth, right? And so navigating that, things falling off, like just letting go of what was, and relationships changing, etc., is all a part of it. So in inspiring growth, there's so much that comes with that, that if you really want to grow, I've created, and, you know, all the tools to help, meaning the books to read and the teachings, the concepts that are eternal, you know, the universal laws to, to help us reflect and understand and apply in our own lives. Um, the self-care practices. I truly believe there's so much that goes into— like, your, your job in life is really yourself. Like, that's the greatest commitment and priority because you're the only one with you from the time you come into the time you exit. And so it's like a refocus. And it's interesting because with my spiritual partners, we're we are, we are going to be launching, it's called Youthful Longevity. It's a Youthful Longevity Mastermind. And it's, it's all really about, I'm the poster child because I'm in my, well, I'm gonna be 47, so I would call it later 40s now. And I feel younger than ever, younger than even when I was in my 20s. Cause I was so unhealthy internally. I just felt tired and inflamed all the time. Mm-hmm. And that was debilitating. So I, I want to inspire people, but as I inspire people, I want to give the support. And that's really what I do— inspiration and, and support through your growth journey into your greatest, highest potential. I call it— I'm a spiritual escort, right? I'll escort you to your highest potential. That's really what I do now. And I have been mentoring and escorting spiritually for, for, you know, quite some time, and it's been really wonderful and beautiful. So now I am, I am deciding to give back more and work in bigger groups and sort of this masterminds platform so that I make a greater impact. And I've also, you know, supported and coached many people to become amazing coaches. So if anyone wants one-on-one coaching, I'm like, I've got a bunch of beautiful, you know, beings who have grown so much who can coach you. So I feel that I don't necessarily need to coach as much anymore. And I'm just creating more of these communities that can all grow together because the, the truth is there's so many different energies, right, around. So I love to create this very positive, high vibrational vortex where people can be a part of so that they can gain that energy and keep it sort of as a protective shield when they go out into the world. And into all the other energies, and they don't get sucked in and pulled in and drained by that. And, and so it's really just building each other up in this really beautiful, wonderful way. And of course, offering all, all my, my wonderful things that I, that I have in my tool belt. So it's kind of, you know, I've got a big buffet for people, and the caregiving mission I realize it's just a beautiful part of my life now where I can give in terms of my resources, yoga classes, my book, to caregivers who are really in need of this right now. And that is a gift and a blessing to me as well. But I, I did just, um, launch— I am launching my signature program. It's called Karen's Notes on Happiness. It's like a condensed version of the, the decade that I took to go to India and to do all the things to develop myself. I was like, how do I get this in like a shorter form, like Cliff's Notes? Yeah, so that people can do this in less time. And I created this. It's like a 3-month course, and it has everything in there, all the modules. And I, I— this was the first thing I launched when David was alive, and this was how I recreated my business and had coaching clients, and I wanted to be able to give this to the public. So I'm just wrapping that up to be able to present it and say, here, you can just purchase this course now. And I think that to me, that's legacy. The fact that I can leave something like that behind, that means that's so fulfilling to me where it doesn't have to be me. If I, if I don't exist tomorrow, I have gotten all the teachings out in my books, in my programs. And even helping others for them to be light leaders in the world. So I always say too, the best way to live is I think about if tomorrow was my last day, would I have regrets today? And I don't. I would be totally good. I don't feel like, oh no, there's more to do. I mean, if I'm here, yes, there's more to be and there's more to do. But if I'm not, I, I feel very good about what I've created, especially in the last few years since my husband has passed. And that's really the mission, to just continue to, you know, speak about it. I always say, show up in your glory and share your story. I teach people how to be visible and be seen and not play small. I mean, it's really most of my clients, and it can be any age, but most of them are midlife. I mean, I have a client, I have a yoga client who's 82 years old who I, I see 3 times a week. So people want to be around this kind of inspiration, this kind of youthfulness. I feel like it's called— I call it agelessness. Like, there's no, you know, you— it's, it's not a horizontal line, it's, it's vertical. Like, we're going up, we're, we're, we're getting greater and greater and more graceful and graceful and wiser and wiser. And I think life, for me, the— through all that I've been through and this, the so-called tragedy or loss The truth is my life has gotten better and better with age. And that's what I'm here to inspire people by, that your life truly matters, that you have so much to offer and give, and you're such a gift to the world, no matter who comes and goes. And that's what I do.

Awesome. That's awesome. Okay. We're coming to the end of our time. You did a— I loved having this conversation with you and talking about, you know, what your what you've been through, what you're going through, what you're doing, how you're transforming lives. So let people know where they can, where they can reach you, and, uh, tell— remind us the name of your book and any other resources you want to offer.

Absolutely. Well, my baby is my book, The Power of Self-Belief. It, it's just— even the symbol of the butterfly on the front is going to remind you of your worth and your value and of transformation. That's what I wanted the symbol to be, just it guides you back in, which is why I wear the butterfly, because when I see it, I'm reminded of my true self within and that power that it has. And so, yes, The Power of Self-Belief, it's on Amazon, it's, it's in bookstores. You can find that, you can Google it, you can get it anywhere. And you can find me on my website, KarenPascal.com. Real easy. Um, everything's there. And Instagram is just Karen Pascal. And I, I'd love to, you know, hear from you and, and connect.

All right, well, Karen, it's been great getting to know you. Uh, when we first started, you, you mentioned you're on your, on your next venture, you're moving. So, uh, good luck with that, with whatever comes next in your life. I'm sure you're gonna crush it.

Thank you so much. Yes, just keep moving. That's what I always say. Make moves. Don't wait for it to happen. Make it happen. And life is really beautiful. Thank you.

Have a great day. You too. Hi there, I'm really excited to tell you about my latest ebook. It's 4 lessons that you can learn from the near-death experience without going through all the Trouble of Dying to Learn Them. I've been studying NDEs for several years now. I am completely convinced that not only are they 100% real, but that there's some very universal wisdom that we can get from the near-death experience. And I've distilled that down in this book into 4 short lessons. And I've also given you all the reasons why I believe that NDEs are absolutely real. So go to www.grieftogrowth.com/NDElessons to pick it up for free. www.grief2growth.com/NDElessons. I hope you enjoy it.