From Corporate to Clairvoyant: Andrej Djordjevitch's Extraordinary Journey into Spiritual Enlightenment and Mediumship

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Hey everybody, this is Brian D Smith back with another episode of Grief 2 Growth. And today I've got with me Andre Djordjevic. Andre is a resident of Cardiff. He is an esteemed spiritualist medium. He's a healer. He's a trance medium. And he's a tutor at Arthur Findlay College. And if some of that goes over your head, don't worry, we're going to talk about what Arthur Findlay College is, what trance mediumship is, and all that stuff. For several years, Andre has walked a spiritual journey. He's dedicated himself to not only understanding but living the spiritual principles that he's, he's unearthed. He's, again, he teaches at Arthur Findlay College, which is a world-famous college for mediumship. He also works with people one-on-one giving readings. Doing trance mediumship and doing healings. He serves the Spiritualist Church, and we'll talk about the Spiritualist Church, Spiritualist Churches. And he does something that's called evidence-based mediumship. He helps to nurture individuals to tap into their own potential and teaches people to be mediums as well. So with that, I want to introduce to Grief to Growth, Andre Djordjevic.

Thank you, Brian. Good to be here.

Yeah, it's really a pleasure to have you here today. I was saying before we get started, we have a mutual friend who who speaks very, very highly of you and said, you've got to get Andre on your program. So here you are. I'm excited to have you here today. I always, when I talk to people that are in mediumship, I'm always curious, how did you get started on this path? It's not a normal path. It's not a very typical path that people do as a, as a living. So how did you get started in mediumship?

Well, that's, that's a great, it's a great story. Because my background was nothing to do with mediumship. I wasn't one of these people that saw spirit as, as a child, you know, I knew nothing about mediumship, nothing about the spirit world. I owned a steel company, I was managing director of a steel company. So I was very much following a pathway of industry. And obviously, being managing director, I had the perks of owning a company. And I had private medical healthcare. And I would take clients out for lunch, we play tennis, play squash. And one day I damaged my cartilage in my knee. And a friend of mine that night said, oh, tomorrow, Fred the Healer is coming around. He can, he can have a look at your, he can have a look at your knee for you. I said, don't be stupid. I said, I have prime, prime private medical healthcare. And I will go to Bupa, or whatever it was, I can't remember.

Okay.

Well, I never went to Bhupa. My knee was still bad. And a week later, my friend said, oh, friends coming around this afternoon. And that morning, I'd gone to the opticians to get my first pair of bifocal glasses, you know, the ones where you look down to read. So I said, okay, I said, I'm gonna sort this Fred out. I've had enough of this Fred guy. So I get my new glasses. I go back to my friend's house. I say, okay, I got some money. How much does he want? No, it's free. I'm in business. Don't be stupid. Nothing's free. There must be a catch. He said, you know, do I have to sign up for some cult? No, it's free. I said, okay, I gotta sort this guy out. So I walked into the room. And I sat down in front of him. I put my knee out in front of him. I was challenging him. I folded my arms tight. And I glared at him. And I can remember these words. I said, I've been told you can fix my knee. I mean, I thought this guy was a joke. And he said, okay, and he put his hands either side of my knee. As I looked down, I could see what looked like smoke coming out of my knee. That's the only way I could describe it, Brian. And afterwards, I went back to the opticians to say, I've had these new glasses this morning. And the reading bit, when I look down, I'm starting to see things. Can you change your prescription? They said, we're terribly sorry, sir, we'll change it for you now. Well, they checked the prescription. And they realized there's nothing wrong with the prescription. And this is, this is where the weird things started. Half of me is panicking. Because I'm starting to see things. The other half of me felt completely normal about seeing things. And it's a weird thing for that to happen at the same time. So I rushed back and luckily Fred was still there. And I walked into the room. And he looked behind me and he started talking to somebody. I turned around, nobody there. I thought, this guy's nuts. Who's he talking to? Remember, I knew nothing about the spirit world. Nothing about healing. And Fred said, look, I've just been told to tell you, go to a spiritualist church, there's a message waiting for you. I said, what church? When?

How?

Who? Where? Yeah, he said, I've been told to tell you, you choose at random, don't tell anybody. And I didn't even know what a spiritualist church was. I looked up spiritual churches, found a church, didn't tell anybody I was going, no connection to Fred. I went along Sunday, 6 o'clock, opened the doors, a full congregation of people and 3 ladies at the front. And as soon as I opened the door, the middle lady turned around and pointed at me. And she said, we've been waiting for you. We have a message for you. Well, I'm starting to shake in my boots now. Because there's no connection between Fred and this woman, none whatsoever. And I could have run or go in. So I went in. And basically the message was, this is a pathway that is open to you if you wanted to walk it. Do you want to walk it? And I virtually became clairvoyant overnight with that one touch from Fred. Well, it wasn't Fred, it was the spirit world. Wow. But when I look back, I think the spirit world was probably knocking on my door for quite some time. And I wasn't listening. I didn't, I didn't even know there was a spirit world. So they were making things more and more and more dramatic. But that becoming clairvoyant, and someone telling, you know, repeating what Fred had said with no connection, more or less sold me the pathway.

So how were they knocking on your door before that?

Well, again, I didn't know at the time, right? I didn't know at the time. But looking back, I was in business. And I was good at what I did. When I was interviewing staff, for instance, I'd have a board of directors with me. And there'd be CVs for all the candidates. And people would walk in and I would say, he's the one. And they say, well, how do you know? Have you got a CV? I don't know. I don't know. I don't need to read your CV. I just thought I was a clever businessman, making clever business decisions. That's what I thought at the time. How could I have been different? But in reality, oh no, I was, I was being inspired. I was exercising my psychic senses. I didn't even know I had.

Wow, that's fascinating. So how about your knee? Was your knee healed at the time?

My knee's still bad. Oh, again, and this is perhaps something good about healing, you know, we get drawn to healers for maybe a problem that we think that we want to have cured. Maybe the reason is there's something else that needs to be addressed.. And in my case, it was certainly to feel the touch of the spirit world, to awaken something within me.

That is fascinating. Because, you know, I know people, you know, sometimes go to healers and we say, well, the healing didn't work, my knee is still bad, or my elbow is still bad.

So fixated on the physical symptoms. I've got a bad elbow, I'm going for healing. Maybe they— well, I know it, the healing will work, but maybe not in the way that you think it's going to work.

Interesting. Interesting. So with the, with the clairvoyance, when did you realize that this is something that you wanted to do, to teach and to go into it as fully as you have?

Well, again, everything is about reflection and looking back. I want to go back to my teenage years. I was in school. And I always wanted to be a teacher. I just had this feeling I wanted to teach. That's what I wanted to do. And, you know, in the UK, we have our exams, I think it was 16, where we sit our O Levels to go to teacher training college.. And I didn't do any work. Because I knew I was going to teach. I didn't have to sit for my exams because I knew I was going to teach. So anyway, we all sat our exams that summer. Of course, I failed them all. Because I hadn't done any work. All my friends went to teacher training college. And my father said to me, son, you were gonna get a job. I thought, and again, I was in complete confusion, confused. So I had this, I really wanted to teach. And I couldn't understand why I wasn't going to college at 17 with all my friends to learn to be a teacher. But it wasn't until later on, very later on, did I realize it was a different type of teaching. So it's something that's always been within me. And I teach in an altered state. I teach in a trance state. And basically, I believe, or I know, that we are all part of everything that is. We are universal consciousness being expressed through a physical body. And we can tap into any aspect of universal consciousness, whatever resonates with us. And I guess I've always tapped into an aspect of teaching. And so that's something that completely resonates with you, you know, it's like somebody that, if they play a sport they really, really love, They're tapping into their inner joy, what they want to do.

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I hope to see you there. I'm thinking, so you're a successful business owner, you go and you have this experience. And I think it's interesting also that they said that this path is open to you. So it wasn't like it was forced on you. It doesn't sound like it was, it was your choice. And so what did the people around you think when you said, I'm going to make this transition into this world?

Well, again, it's, it's all about starting to undo our human conditioning. Yeah, because we put on a persona to the world of what we want people to see. So if I was a businessman, I put on this persona of what I think a businessman should be like. But now this other part of me is unfolding. And initially, it was quite difficult. The hardest part was telling my parents, You know, I mean, I was— I was in my late 30s. And my father, he was from Serbia, or Yugoslavia in his day, but now it's Serbia. And they never talked about spirituality. They'd never talked about the spirit world. My father was a— he worked in a factory all his life, you know. And he came from a small village in Serbia. So I said, look, Dad, I said, I need to tell you something. You know, I wanted my parents to know, because I was starting to develop and work a little bit, and I wanted them to know from me. So I said, Dad, I need to tell you that I'm following this pathway of healing, which just happened all of a sudden. And my dad looked at me. And he said, oh, that makes sense. So what do you mean? He said, well, your grandmother was the healer for the village.

Oh, wow.

Auntie was the seer. They would go to your auntie when to plant the crops. And they would go to your grandmother when they were ill. Now, he never told me that in 30 years.

Wow. Wow.

So that was my first step, telling my parents. And then I didn't actually tell anybody I just ran my business, but also followed this pathway, evening and weekends. And so gradually, more and more people started to find out about it. But because I was the boss, I don't think they did. They didn't challenge me. And it got to a stage where I had to make a huge decision. Because it was taking up so much of my time and running the business. I couldn't do both together. And so I decided to give up the business and to follow this pathway full time. Wow. I wish I'd done it 20 years ago.

Wow. So how did the clairvoyance present? Because you mentioned clairvoyance, but you also mentioned healing. So sounds like the clairvoyance developed first. And what was that like? What were you— what were you seeing?

Well, again, I have to say I am very, very lucky. Okay, I'm very lucky. The very first thing when something new happens to you, you want to find out what, what do I do? What's the next step? There's this thing that's happened. What do I do? So you start asking people, what do you do? Meditate. I didn't even know what meditate was. So I was okay. So I started to meditate. But what happened, this is, again, this is crazy. When I closed my eyes to meditate, I got taken, I can only describe it as taken to a place that resembled the world of Avatar, you know, Avatar, that film?

Yes, absolutely.

Yeah. I first day, close my eyes, and I was in Avatar land. Oh, wow. Yeah. And then these beings of light, I thought I can only describe them, they weren't human. But they were this intelligent beings of light, showed me things. And I sat for an hour to 2 hours a day for 2 years. Because I was having these unbelievable experiences.

Yeah, yeah.

So After about a year of this, I started to talk to people. Are you meditating? And they say, no, boring. So what do you mean boring? Don't you get taken to this strange world? Don't you have these intelligent beings show you stuff? They said, what strange world? What stuff? Oh, so I realized I was having a totally different experience.

Absolutely.

So the clairvoyance initially helped me to process all the information that this intelligence was sharing with me. Then I had to decide how I was going to present that information. So in other words, I had this information, I had this knowledge, I had this connection to this intelligence. Next stage, what do you do with it? How do you, how do you express that? So I started off by expressing it as healing. That's how I started, because healing is what's known as a passive mediumship. So in other words, you don't, you don't actively do anything in the healing session. You just become the healing intelligence that you're connecting to. And then the healing intelligence just manifests through you automatically. So healing was my very first way of expressing this spirituality.

So were these beings giving you information? You know, you were, you were spending quite a bit of time with them. Were they telling you about the spirit world, about our world? What were they, what were they expressing to you?

Oh, they, they, well, again, it's, it's very difficult for me to explain the process. Okay, and I'll try to explain the process. Because what— how the information is transferred is you become part of that journey. You become part of what they are showing you. And then you just know things. And so very early on, they showed me a healing process of just actually learning to become the healing intelligence. And they were just showing various ways that they do it by just accessing different aspects of universal consciousness, depending on what's required. And so they would act, they would show me, it's like a universe, where they could just go to any point in the universe and access any energetic point, whatever was required. And when they accessed an energetic point, they become that energy. So they wanted healing, they just go to a point of healing in the universe, become the healing, and it manifests. And so on and so on and so on. The other part of the journey for me is about personal growth, undoing all our human conditioning, because we are totally conditioned. We are totally working through a way that our parents have taught us, our religious teachers have taught us, our teachers in school have taught us. And maybe, maybe that reality isn't exactly what we need. So part of my growth is undoing a lot of the things I've been told, certainly about mediumship.

Yeah, yeah, that's, I think that's true for all of us. You know, we do, we have all been, as you said, programmed in a certain sense. And we all put on these masks and we walk around and people expect us to wear the masks. And we said we want to decide when to take it off there. They're not usually very happy about it.

Well, I mean, I deal with a lot of couples who are having problems in their relationships. And I, you know, from experience, I would say, most of them have that problem. They've put on a mask of what they think their partner wants to see, which is great for a year or maybe two, but when they revert to being what they want to be and who they really are, the partner says, what's happened? You changed. You're not the person I married. You're not the person I fell in love with. You're a totally different person. But they're only being themselves.

Right?

You said this, they're no longer presenting that mask that they presented at the beginning.

Right, right. So I'm assuming that you initially did your healing and your mediumship probably in the Spiritualist Church, is that correct?

Yeah, I started 100% in the Spiritualist Church.

And for people that don't know, could you tell them what the Spiritualist Church is? Because it's not as big here as it is in the UK.

Yeah, well, basically, a spiritualist church is basically like a church service, where there are prayers. There is some philosophy. But also, spiritualists believe that there is no death. And that when the physical body dies, you, you actually don't die, you move on as an individual energy starting the rest of your— the next part of your journey. So in the Spiritualist Church, rather than people say, look, this is what you must believe, they try to prove through evidence that there is an afterlife. So in other words, they say, okay, I have your mum with me from the spirit world. And the, and the people in the audience will say, okay, how do I know it's my mum? And so they would have to provide some evidence to say, well, this lady's name is Joanna. And she's got dark hair, and she worked as a nurse. And by providing that factual evidence, it gives the people in the audience not only comfort that their loved ones are not dead, they are still alive. But also, they are never going to die. And maybe that's perhaps more important. Because once you know, once you really know, you can't die, and there is no death, I think your life changes completely.

Oh, absolutely. And that, that brings us to— I was going to ask you to describe evidential mediumship, because again, I think it's a little bit different in the UK than it is here. From my understanding, it's like, it's really emphasized in the UK to provide evidence. And I know a lot of people in the US are skeptical about mediumship because they say, well, you just say general things. So can you maybe talk about the evidence in a spiritualist church and why it's so important?

Yeah, one of the biggest problems that spiritualism has, Brian, is that there's not enough good mediums that can give factual evidence. Okay. That's the major problem, you know, I would love it to be in a situation where anybody can go at any time to any spiritualist church and have factual information all the time. It's not quite there. It doesn't always happen. And I understand how some people go, and even in the UK, they go, and there's this general talk, which doesn't really prove a lot. But my training was with the Spiritualist National Union, the SNU. And part of their tenets, part of their philosophy, is you have to provide evidence before you can even go on to give a message from the spirit world. Because anybody can say they're giving a message from the spirit world. So we endeavor to try to give as much information. So the person in the church is fully happy. Yeah, that is, that is my mom. That is my dad. That is my child. And that evidence, that evidence can come in different ways. It can come in, in names. Personality is personality is very easy to do. Because you feel the personality of the person. Relationship, job, hobbies, method of passing, shared memories is another one, you know, you know, and so yeah, initially, we try to prove that evidence first. And then if it's a message, thing bring a message. But I think things are changing, Brian. And I'll tell you what I'm trying to do. I teach something that is called— because I specialize in trance, I thought, well, if I can learn to allow the intelligence of the universe to speak through me, If I can learn to allow my spirit guides to speak through me, there's no logical reason why I can't learn to allow a discarnate spirit to speak through me. So in other words, there's no reason why I cannot become a discarnate spirit. And speak to the sitter directly. Rather than the medium say, I have your mum in the spirit world. And she's telling me this, she's telling me that. I become mum. And I speak to one of your— I don't know if your mum is in the spirit world or not, Brian. But if she was, I would become your mother. And I would speak to you. As your mother, using the terminology that your mum would use between you, using the perhaps the words, the phrases, the tone, the pitch, the pace of how you would speak to your— how your mother would interact with you. And also give you an opportunity to speak back to your mother. So that's the way I'm now starting to approach what I call evidence.

Okay.

And it is— I teach it, but it's really hard. Because there's no hiding.

Right?

You are either mum, or you're not. I—

that— thank you for sharing that. That's the first I've heard of what that definition of transmediumship. So you're saying that you're, you're connecting, and I hear the word blending all the time, meaning I'm blending with the spirit. But you're allowing that spirit, you're becoming that person and speaking directly to the sitter as their, as their loved one.

Yeah. Yeah. Because, but don't get me wrong, I teach it, Brian. It's hard. It's really hard. But when it happens, it changes the world. It changes everybody's there's no hiding.

Sure.

You know, you know. So yeah, so basically, trance mediumship, as I call it, is blending with an aspect of universal consciousness. I call universal consciousness everything that is. So when I do trance mediumship, The bulk of what I do, I tend to blend with a healing intelligence. For healing, I tend to blend with an intelligence that speaks. So I call it intelligent thought, and then blend with the discarnate spirit to become that person. So once you've learned the ability in trance, to remove your consciousness and just allow that energy to become part of you. You then just have to decide what particular energies you want to become part of you, what resonates with you the most.

So you said it's really hard. What, what's the— what's hard about it? What's different? What makes it so hard?

Well, practice. Think of it this way. Most people, when they blend, say, with their spirit guides— let's call it spirit guides to make it easy— they spend a couple of years building up a relationship, feeling comfortable, allowing that guide to come closer and closer and closer. And then over a period of time, allow the guide to fully be part of them. Maybe take couple of years for that to happen. Now, look at Discarnate Spirit. You're asking a stranger who you never met before, never met them before, to blend fully, blend with you fully on day one. Even though you have developed that trance to allow a blend to happen, it's a complete stranger.

And so it's different every time.

So some people find that difficult. And quite rightly so, it is difficult. But the more you practice, the more comfortable it gets, and it can be achieved.

So we mentioned, I mentioned earlier in your intro, you teach at Arthur Findlay College, and most of my listeners probably know what it is, but some people probably don't. So explain to people what Arthur Findlay College is.

Yeah, basically, the Arthur Findlay College is, I would say, probably the most prestigious place in the world to learn about mediumship. They have courses on all types of mediumship. Most of— again, this is something I want to share with you— most of the courses tend to be about evidential mediumship. But in reality, I'm finding not so many people want to learn evidential mediumship as much as they did.

Really?

Yeah. Bear in mind that you can only learn what you have been told you can learn. So if you want to learn mediumship, if I would say to you, Brian D Smith, you're going to learn some kind of mediumship, you'd automatically think of evidential mediumship. But there's healing mediumship, there's trance mediumship, and there's evidential mediumship. And I'm seeing more of a shift between moving away from evidential mediumship into trance and healing.

Really?

Yeah. Yeah. Think of it this way. I have lots of clients that come to me. And, you know, as people who are struggling with their life, perhaps, okay, they have a problem with their life. And I say to them, okay, what do you want to learn? Do you want to connect to the spirit world? Hmm, not really. Do you want to be a platform medium? No, not really. What do you want? Oh, I want to know why I'm here. What I can do, how can I grow as a person, how I can serve humanity? You know, how I can become a— help people to become better people. That's what I want to know.

Yeah.

I'm finding more and more people are far more turning towards self-development and growth. Don't get me wrong, a lot of people still want to practice evidential mediumship. But I know if I look at the courses at the Arthur Findlay College now, there are more and more healing courses, there are more and more trance courses being presented. But of course, there's a lot of evidential mediumship courses still being presented. And they basically give you an opportunity for you to unfold, to practice in a way and get some guidance and some advice on what to do.

Yeah. Well, speaking of that, because I noticed, I mean, you do, you do healing. You do also trance mediumship where you're bringing someone through, but you also sounds like you coach people, you help people. As you said, why am I here? What's my life path? You know, all that kind of stuff. And I don't hear that from, from most mediums that I work with. So how does, how does that process work for you?

Well, again, that evolved. Everything evolves. I started off very much teaching evidential mediumship, healing, and trance mediumship. Okay, fairly standard. But I noticed over a period of a couple of years, that I started to change. And more and more of my teaching, more and more of my sittings were about self-growth, but also about teaching. And I started to realize that I work in a far deeper altered state. Well, I teach, I teach in a trance state. And I can remember the first time that happened. It was amazing. I am— I work with some organizers, some course organizers in America. And we planned this weekend on— it's online during COVID And, you know, we set the days out, the times, what we're going to cover, what I was going to cover. And then I work with an intelligence that I call Michael. That's not his name, but I label it Michael, okay. And that's the intelligence that guides me and supports me. But it's only a label that I use. And then one day he said, oh, Andre, I'll take the course this weekend. And I said, yeah, of course you will. You know, you, you, you inspire me to move and say certain things. No, he said, I will take the course this weekend. Hmm. What do you mean? He said, well, on, on Saturday morning, you turn the machine on. And on Sunday night, you turn the machine off. Wow. And all of a sudden, I'm emailing America. Can we change the weekend? Yeah, what you want to change around? What, any time slots you want to make different? I said no. Can we change it where I will do it in trance?

Hmm.

And again, huge decision to make. I could have said no.

Yeah.

I'm good at what I do. I'm a good tutor. I plan things out. All of a sudden, I've been asked to put that to one— put all that to one side and just allow the intelligence of the universe to teach. And that's the best thing I ever did.

Wow.

And that has now evolved again into what I teach is called transformational spiritual life coaching. What I do, what I teach, is to first of all, teach people to be able to go into the trance state. And then get people to allow the intelligence of the universe to analyze the client and to manifest for that client whatever they need. Because normally, we, as humans, we like to control everything. Somebody comes to you, I got a problem. Oh, I'll give you some healing. But how do we know that they need healing? That's a human thing. That's a human thought. And so I'm, I'm teaching this to allow people to completely surrender to the intelligence of the universe. And let the intelligence of the universe decide what the person needs to experience to grow or to get better. Is it a pure energetic healing? Is it trans-speaking words of wisdom? Is it trans-evidential where a discarnate spirit comes in to say hello? Is it learning them to be a coach and to guide others into a process? And I just, I get people to trust in the intelligence to call the shots, not the medium or not the teacher.

Interesting. Yeah, I've never heard that. That sounds, that sounds fascinating. And something actually, frankly, of great interest to me. I have, I have a lot of good friends that are mediums, and I'm trying to learn to rely more on my own intuition. And I think it's kind of like you were saying earlier, though. We all have this certain level of intuition, you know, that is with us during our lives, but we don't call it that, you know, we, and we just say, I just feel like I knew this, I knew the right thing to say. And not realizing that it's, that it is coming from, you know, from some other intelligence.

Exactly. It's best part of us. And Perhaps, perhaps that's one of the first things we all have to learn. I thought again, I was so naive when I first started developing. I thought I'd have two minds. I have Andre's mind with my thoughts, and then separate mind with the thoughts of the spirit world. Doesn't happen that way. It all happens in your mind.

Interesting.

Yeah.. And I was taught very early on, especially for trance speaking, that I would go into a sleep-like state, I would not know what was happening. And when I was in a sleep-like state in trance, the spirit world would speak through me. So I'm sitting in quite a deep altered state. And then one day, Michael says, I want to speak. And I said, you can't, it's not allowed. So what do you mean? He said, well, I know who you are. I know what you're gonna say. I'm not in a sleep-like state. I don't want people to think I'm cheating or pretending. So no, you can't speak. And it went on for months. I'm trying to get into this sleep state. Michael is saying he wants to speak, I'm not allowing it. So one day, Michael said, okay, Andre, there's only one way around this. Why don't you say to your friends, your colleagues, when you're in your group, why don't you say to them these words? Why don't you say, can I share my thoughts with you? I thought, hmm, yeah, I can do that. Because I'm not cheating. I'm conscious. And they are thoughts in my mind, in Andrei's mind, that I'm going to verbalize. So I said, can I share my thoughts with you? Not a problem. And the moment I did that, the first couple of sentences were Andrei's thoughts. But then the third or fourth sentence became Michael's thoughts. Because it's going through the— it's going through the process of Andre's mind.

Yeah, thank you.

That's, that's really interesting. Because I've heard people— there's a debate about what's truly trance. And, you know, I know some teachers even say there is no such thing as trance. And if you're in trance, then you shouldn't remember, you know, what you said. And I hear you saying there's something different, at least in your experience.

Yeah, well, that's how it starts, basically. So in other words, that's probably a light trance. In other words, okay, where you are speaking the thoughts of the spirit world, you're speaking the thoughts of the intelligence of the universe. But you also have an awareness of what's being said. And I can only describe it, and there's no disrespect to the spirit world or Michael or anybody. It's almost like you get bored listening.

Hmm.

I'm there. Oh, yeah, what's Michael talking about? Oh, yeah, great. And then, oh, no, I think he's not speaking about healing again, is he? Okay, I'll drift off a bit. And then I just gradually removed myself a little bit. So in other words, I wasn't putting my awareness on what was being said. I knew he was speaking about healing. But I wasn't listening to every single word.

Yeah.

And then a bit later, you know, 6 months later, maybe a year later, whatever, I removed myself even more. So I got to a stage, okay, I know I'm speaking, but I don't know what I'm speaking about, but it doesn't matter. And then gradually, I got to a stage of not knowing anything. But also what I've learned is, is that it's important to have that ability to go from a light trance into a deep trance. But also realize that if you're going to allow the intelligence to become part of the process, and call the shots, and make the decisions, you may not need to go into a deep trance all the time. They may say, okay, this client here needs to hear the human Andre speaking and engaging. And so you only go into maybe a light trance. The next client needs to go— perhaps needs you to go into like a mid-trance state. And there are some clients where you go into a deep trance state. Again, I've learned to trust in the intelligence to make the decision what's the best thing to do for me.

So from the client's perspective, would, would I be able to tell the difference if I'm speaking to you, whether you're whether you're Andre or whether you're in a deep trance?

Depending on your sensitivity, most people who have a degree of sensitivity, not a developed medium, a degree of sensitivity, would know the energy shift. Okay, shift in energy. And what, what Michael does, he does demonstrations. And if I knew what he's going to do, I wouldn't allow him because I'm putting myself out there. And I look back on recordings, and the things that he does is to say, look, I want you all to experience different energies. And he will say, okay, I'm going to access different points in the universe, and I'm going to change the energy for you all to feel the difference. That's a big statement for him to make. Because if things go wrong with Andre, people are gonna look at Michael. And so he will go into a deep healing energy. And everybody will feel a deep healing energy. Okay, then you say, okay, now I'm going to shift that. I'm going to shift it to this type of energy. And he will just change it and say, right, you should all feel a shift in energy and a different energy change. So yes, yeah, to answer your question, yes, you would know the difference.

Okay. Well, I was thinking about like, I just read the Seth books recently, and Jane Roberts, you know, when she would do Seth, she'd take off her glasses and her voice would change. And I've seen other mediums, you know, female mediums, for example, that will actually speak in a male voice. So I've seen people do things like that. With you, your experience is not dramatic when Michael's coming through. It's not like you completely change personalities.

No, no. For me, I am just allowing Michael to access my mind and use Andre's physical apparatus to share that information, to share I mean, people say, I mean, people say things like, my eyes change color. When Michael comes through, I don't know if he does or not. Logically, I don't see how that can happen. But, you know, I don't— again, everyone's different. Everybody processes the information in a different way.

Right.

Right.

I think it's important to respect other people's experiences. I hear so many people say, well, this is impossible. I have an acquaintance who's a medium, and she can shift very quickly and start channeling other beings. Other people said, well, no, you can't channel that quickly. It takes, you know, half an hour or takes whatever amount of time to get into that. So we try to limit other people's experiences, which I think is mistake.

Oh, yeah. I mean, it's all down to the development of the trance medium. I mean, I've been doing this for 30 years. I can quickly go into a trance state and quickly come out of a trance state. Whereas when I first started, okay, my early years, it took me 15-20 minutes. Now it takes me 3 or 4.

Okay. So, you know, we talked, we started off and talked about your story, which I think is really fascinating that you, because you said, I didn't see spirit as a child. I've talked to a lot of mediums who did, you know, they start off seeing it. But then I, when I heard about your background, it sounds like you at least had latent ability because it comes through your family. And I've seen that seems to be a common theme too, with people that are really highly developed, it seems like there's, there's a almost a genetic component to it. So do you think, can anybody learn to become a medium if someone goes to Arthur Findlay and dedicates himself? Or is there a certain, is there a certain amount of innate ability that you have to have?

Well, I, I think anybody can do anything to a certain level. It's like football. Okay. And everybody can play football. Okay, anybody can play football. But some people play football better than others.

Yeah.

And people can train as hard as each other, they can all do the— have the exact same amount of training, the exact same amount of willpower. But some people will shine more than others.

Right?

I think it's the same as mediumship. I think everybody can practice their psychic ability to a certain level. But I think everybody has different— I don't think I don't want to use the word gifts. Everyone has different abilities in life. Some are more trainable than others. So I know, I don't think anybody can become a medium. I think to become an effective medium, I think it has to be something within you. But that's not— but that doesn't stop anybody from practicing and being able to do it to a certain degree.

Yeah, thank you. I think that's— I happen to agree with that answer. So it seems like a good answer to me, from my experience, because I've heard some people say, well, anybody can become a medium, like, but can anybody become a good medium? That's, that's the question.

Yeah. At the end of the day, it's all— I want— what I do with my teaching and my training, I really simplify everything. We've made it, we have made it so complicated. And when I say to people, look, the only thing that matters, the only thing that matters is the quality of the energy and the quality of the information. Full stop. How you get that information how you think you get that information, who you think your guides are, who you think you are connecting to, is just noise. It all boils down to the quality of the energy and the quality of the information. That's what I try, because we're all— we're always— again, we're taught, get to know your guide. I think that's wrong. What I say is get to know the energy. Yeah, somebody says you get to know your guide straight away. That's putting a conditioning on you. Oh, I got a guide. Okay, who is my guide? Man or woman? Or neither? Or angel or ascended master or something else? And all of a sudden, what should be a simple process of get to know the energy has evolved into this huge process of who is my guide? Where did he come from? What does he do? Does it matter? It's a quality of the energy, the quality of the information. Yeah, I've done a, I've done a blog on my website about who is Michael over 25 years. And how much—

I'm sorry.

And how much he— how much it's changed.

Okay.

Again, day one, what do I do? When I first started to develop, oh, you've got a spirit guide. What's this? Again, what's the spirit guide? I didn't know. Oh, it'll be an indigenous person. Oh. What's an indigenous person?

Mm-hmm.

And they said, oh, well, probably it'll be a North American Indian, a Chinese herbalist, or a Tibetan monk. Now, the church I first went to tended to have a lot of dreamcatchers in the church. So okay, the energy I feel, I'll call it, let's call it a Red Indian.. And so when I connected to the energy, I pictured this North American Indian. Mm-hmm. As I developed into healing, this red Indian was more of a warrior than a healer. And so the feeling of the energy, I changed into a Chinese herbalist that was more suited for healing. Then as I became involved in philosophy, I was starting to do church services now with philosophy and demonstrations. I became more philosophical. The energy became a Tibetan monk.

Interesting.

Then I realized it was a group consciousness. And maybe the Tibetan monk was the spokesperson for this group consciousness.. And then that evolved into just pure group consciousness. And now it's evolved into pure universal consciousness. Now that's evolved over 30 years. And when I look again, when I look back on it, it's still the same energy on day one. It is just my perception of what I was perceiving altered as I grew as a person. At one stage, Brian, I had a database of guides on an Excel spreadsheet. Yeah, I thought, hang on. It's— why is it so complicated? And I realized because I made it complicated.

Interesting.

Yeah.. And now it is just the intelligence of the universe. And I access any point to that intelligence of the universe, depending on what's required. I do it through the angel Michael.

Now, as you were saying that you were talking about these different nationalities and stuff. And it reminded me of— I was thinking if we reincarnate, we've probably all been various nationalities. But what does the Spiritualist Church teach on reincarnation?

It depends on who you listen to. For instance, the Spiritualist National Union, the SNU in the UK, they are a firm believer of proof of evidence. Okay. So in other words, evidential mediumship isn't a fact until it's proven. And you prove it by giving the evidence. Reincarnation. How do you prove reincarnation? How do you actually prove reincarnation? And that's— and I think the SNU, until they, until they, until someone can prove to everybody that reincarnation exists. Their stance on it is that they don't say it exists. They don't say it doesn't exist. Okay, prove it at the moment.

Okay.

Personally, Andre, to my point of view, I think we come from a pool of consciousness, reincarnate, we go back into a pool of consciousness, but still retain some individuality. And so that pool of consciousness creates again. And so part of us, part of us, part of the energy reincarnates. That's my— that's Andre's best understanding at the moment.

Yeah, that's fair. Thank you. Appreciate you explaining that. Because I know there's— I've heard some people say the Spiritualist Church does not believe in reincarnation, but I guess it wouldn't be fair to say they disbelieve in reincarnation. It's more like, it sounds like they're more agnostic about it.

Yeah, basically, they are saying, you know, they're saying it may exist or it may not exist. So it's proven until there's a way of actually effectively proving it. Bring it into their philosophy.

Yeah. Well, I, you know, I appreciate that point of view. And I think it's really interesting because again, coming back around to mediumship, even because that, that group, the spiritual church, you know, they're so skeptical. And I use skeptical in the sense like, prove it to me. So when it comes to mediumship, because again, a lot of people here, we have, unfortunately, we don't have the standards that you guys have in the UK in terms of mediumship. We have a lot of terrible people running around saying that they're mediums. And we don't really have too much of a certification process for mediums. So that makes a lot of people in the United States doubt that mediumship exists, because all mediums will tell you is that your, your grandmother loves you, and she made cookies, and I have someone here with a J name, you know, and that, that passes for mediumship sometimes here.

Well, it's pointless, isn't it? Yeah, it doesn't do anything. Right. But I'm leaning more to the fact that people need to understand that to move forward in life, they have to start to make their own decisions for themselves. And I really think But everybody— people come to me for healing and say their life is in a mess. And they don't know, they don't know what their, what their problem is. Say, yes, you do. You know what the problem is. But you haven't got the clarity, or you haven't got the strength to make the decision to make changes in your life. You know, certainly from a healing point of view, A lot of people need clarity and strength. Yeah, and mediumship. It's strange. I can see some huge changes happening with mediumship, Brian. I really can.

Okay.

So I'm seeing more and more people. They're fed up with, as you said, going to a medium and the medium is saying, oh, your mother, your grandmother loves you. She makes cakes in the kitchen. You know, and she understands life is tough, you know, but she, and she sends the support. That doesn't do anything, does it? That doesn't do anything for anybody, right? Apart from the ego of the so-called medium, right? So things have to change. And I think, I think, I think things are changing. I really do.

That's, that's good to hear. So tell me, how can people reach out to you? And do you still do medium readings for people? I know you do, you do healing. So what services do you offer people? And how can people find you?

Well, basically, I do everything through my website. I would say 75% of what I do is teaching. I teach people how to do trance. I teach people how to do healing. I do mentorship. I do a trance, trance mentorship, where I thoroughly give people a background in trance. I do a trance mentorship on transformational spiritual life coaching. Train people to be able to allow the intelligence to work through them. I do one-to-one coaching, or one-to-one healing, all online through my website. I travel the world. All my courses, they're all on the website.

Awesome. So if you wouldn't mind, just tell people what the website is. I'll put it in the show notes, but sometimes people are listening, they don't get— they don't read the notes.

Basically my name, andrejgeorgievich.com. www.andrejgeorgievich.com.

Awesome. Awesome. Now, again, the spelling will be in the show notes. Andre, I want to thank you so much for your time today for sharing, sharing with me, sharing your story, your wisdom, a great perspective on mediumship and the spirit world in general. So thanks a lot. Anything, anything you want to leave the audience with as we leave today?

Yeah, the only thing that I really like to share with everybody is that be yourself. People say to me, how do I become a good medium? How do I become a good person? I say, be yourself. Because by being yourself, you are expressing the intelligence of the universe. You know, you can't be anybody. You can't be the illusion of yourself. That doesn't work anymore. So just people realize they are unique. They have their own connection, their own understanding, and just express who they are. Simple as that.

Awesome. Awesome. Thank you. Enjoy your afternoon.

Thank you, Brian. Thank you so much.

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