He Died for 3 Hours — The Near Death Experience Transformation That Changed Everything | Jonathan Ashford | EP 478

You know you need something, you're just not sure what. You've been listening, you're doing the work, but there's still this feeling that you're circling the same place, like you're waiting for the thing that finally moves you. Now maybe you've thought about working with me one-on-one. Maybe something's held you back, the timing, the money, or you're just not sure you're ready yet. I get that. And I want you to know there's still a place for you. I built a resource for exactly this moment, guided meditations for when the waves hit and you just need to breathe. Workbooks to help you get out of your head and onto the page, ebooks on what near-death experiences tell us about the people we've lost, and whether they're really gone, a full course for widows and widowers who are ready to find their way back to living, and a full course for the evidence of the afterlife. And all of it is available for pay what you want. Nobody gets turned away because of money. I think these resources are valuable, but I don't want to hold them back because you don't have the money to pay for them. You don't have to wait until you're ready for coaching. The next step might be a lot smaller than you think. To find out, go to grief2growth.com/store. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/store. And check out the resources I've made for you. Close your eyes and imagine. What are the things in life that cause us the greatest pain? The things that bring us grief are challenges, challenges designed to help us grow, to ultimately become what we were always meant to be. We feel like we've been buried. But what if, like a seed, we've been planted? And having been planted, we grow to become a mighty tree. Now, open your eyes. Open your eyes to this way of viewing life. Come with me as we explore your true, infinite, eternal nature. This is Grief to Growth. And I am your host, Brian D Smith. Hi there, I'm Brian D Smith. I want to welcome you whether you're joining us for the first time, you've been with us for a while, to another episode of Grief to Growth. This show is here to help you navigate life's most difficult moments and explore the deeper questions that we all ask: Who are we? Where do we come from? Why are we here? And where are we going? I think today's conversation is one that may just shift your entire understanding of life, death, and what lies beyond. I've studied the afterlife for quite a while, and one of the things I find most compelling about afterlife studies is the near-death experience. And my guest Jonathan Ashford is someone who didn't just have a near-death experience. He says he actually died. On May 22nd, 2023, Jonathan's organs failed, his skin turned yellow, and he was clinically dead for 3 hours. But during that time, something extraordinary happened. He wasn't just floating above a hospital bed. He was immersed in what he describes as divine consciousness. He received teachings, he had a life review, and he was given a choice to stay or return. Jonathan had spent 25 years at the peak of material success, climbing the corporate ladder, living in abundance, and avoiding anything remotely spiritual. But after that experience, the version of him that returned was profoundly transformed. The man who came back was not the man who died. That executive, he says, is gone. Today, Jonathan is part of the IANDS, International Association of Near-Death Studies, and the NDERF Research Studies in Near-Death Experiences. And since August 2024, he's been helping others explore, explore across the world, I should say, explore through speaking, private lessons, and spiritual guidance. He's not here to self-promote. In fact, he was told not to. He's here to serve, to share what he experienced with those who are ready to hear it. So in this episode, we'll explore what really happened during those 3 hours, what it felt like, what he learned, and all we need to know about the life we're living before we cross over. What's the difference between a near-death experience and actually dying? How does free will fit into what he was shown? Can intellect stand in the way of truth? And what happened when the heart finally takes over? So this isn't just a story. It's an invitation to reexamine everything. So stick around.. And as always, the conversation afterwards continues over at my Substack at grieftogrowth.substack.com. There you're going to find an article about today's episode, where you can keep the dialogue going. You can ask questions, and you can interact with other listeners to the show. So with that, I want to welcome Jonathan Ashford.

Thank you, Brian. I'm happy to be here.

Yeah, I'm really glad to have you here. I understand you had a pretty— well, all near-death experiences are unusual. I think yours may have been more unusual than some others. I know you say that you didn't just have an NDE, that you actually died. So what is it you mean by that?

Yeah, so I died from stage 3 sepsis, uh, which brought on organ failure, multiple organ failure. And when I went to the other side, uh, I was told that I passed, um, which is why I was given the choice to stay there or return. Um, when I did return, my body was 94 degrees. I had lost 1 degree of temperature for hour that I was gone., which I understand from a hospice nurse I had recently given guidance to, that, uh, that's normal. It's, it's normal past death to lose that body temperature. So yeah, my experience is a little bit more rare than others in a way. Um, I like to say there's a dial of near-death experiences where you start at the 12 and most go to the 3 or the 6 or the 9, but mine went fully to the 12 where I was asked what I wanted to do when it was over.

Hmm. So were you, you were in the hospital when this happens?

No, actually I had been to the emergency room twice. I had collapsed 2 times over 2 weeks and both, both emergency room visits missed it. I was a super healthy guy, a 2-hour-a-day gym guy, and they couldn't find anything wrong. They found some acidity in my blood, which would've been the marker for them to find something, but they actually attributed it to my ketogenic diet at the time. Oh, so what turns out happened is I had a gallstone get stuck in a duct and that led to sepsis, led to the infection, which has 3 stages. The problem is when most people get a stone of any type, they feel it. I happen to have a DNA mutation to pain and I never felt it. So I just kept getting sicker and sicker and sicker until everything failed. The night I passed, my skin turned completely yellow. I had lost most of my eyesight. My hair was falling out. I had lost, I don't know, 7 pounds maybe over the 2 weeks. And I thought I had picked up COVID from being in the ER. So I thought, wow, this is pretty serious. This is kicking my butt. And then it turns out that night I woke up and felt completely different and ended up passing. It took a few months for the doctors to figure out exactly what happened. But considering the damage I have, the extensive damage inside my body, Uh, from that night, yeah, I died.

Oh wow. So how were you— how were you just— we're going to go to the physical, then we'll go to your, to your actual experience. But how was your body found in your house, or how—

no, no. So the 3— I, I had this experience where I made it to the bathroom and my— I was dragging my right leg down the hallway. Didn't— everything felt different. It was kind of like I was being moved to the bathroom at 4:30 in the morning, and I had been sleeping 18 hours a day. I had no idea why I had even woken up at 4:30 in the morning. And it wasn't until I made it to the bathroom doorway that I realized, okay, I'm going to collapse again. And I don't know why, and I don't know if I'm going to be able to make it to the sink to prop myself up. So I kind of fell into it. And when I fell into it, I noticed that my hands were completely gray and all the fluid had leaked out of them. And I thought, wow, that's strange. What a weird hallucination. And then I looked up and I saw my face in the mirror. And when I saw my face in the mirror, I like to say there's a part of you that knows when it's about to die. It's similar to, you could say, elderly relatives who are in the funeral home who just have this knowing when they're gonna go. And there's something in me that clicked. My face had sunken in, all the fluid had leaked outta my face. It was completely gray. My eyes had sunken almost to the back of my head. And it was that click. And I knew I was about to die. Everything had been removed from me. It was kind of like I was in front of all the thoughts of, well, how is this even possible? Or what about my family? Or what about my friends? Or what about my dog? Like, that was all peacefully removed from me. And you just kind of go through the experience of— I'll call it very graceful. In my case, it was very graceful. It was peaceful and it was beautiful. But there's no part of you that says, well, no, I don't want to. Right. There's no fighting. It just happened. So in that space, I collapsed again and I wasn't found at all. I woke up 3 hours later. I was a crumpled mess. I actually felt myself come back to my body. I felt the fluids start to move. I felt what it took to have the heartbeat one time. I felt my lungs inflate a little bit before I was even breathing so that I could breathe. Uh, they were like pancaked on my back. Um, I felt my consciousness sort of grow within the body cavity and kind of take it over. Um, and it wasn't until I was able to get off the floor that I realized my face had filled back in. And I had taken my temperature at that point and it was 94 degrees, which is emergency hypothermia in itself.

Right.

And my resting temperature that week was 97.1. I kept testing it, not understanding why it wasn't fluctuating considering how sick I was, which is another marker of sepsis. And it wasn't until all the doctor visits over the next few months that everyone was starting to put together, wow, you're real, really lucky to be alive. But I had this nagging message in the back of my head. From a being that I met on the other side that said I had passed. Um, then from there, within about 2 or 3 months, synchronicities started happening, psychic messages, predictions that were coming true. And, uh, Dr. Jeffrey Long's, uh, NDERF, the research study, showed up in a YouTube feed, and I thought, well, we'll see. And I clicked and I watched his, uh, interview, and I thought, well, that's just a little strange. He said something that really rung my bell and said, you don't have a life review. You don't review your life during the hallucination. You don't review your life in a coma or being passed out, but you sure do review it when you've passed. So I submitted to his, uh, research study to be investigated, and sure enough, it came back as— there's a 4 rating, and I was at the, at the 4, which is the smallest group of us who have had a very deep experience. Mm-hmm. Um, And then there's the other aspect that I returned nothing like the person who left. 3 hours later, I was a completely different person. There's no explanation for it other than that experience over that 3 hours. So there were a number of things pointing to my passing and, and being able to intellectualize it in a sense and say, okay, yeah, it happened there. There was an interesting thing as part of the return is I, for 2 weeks, had been home and at every gasp or shortness of breath I had while I was sick, I had 911 on speed dial and I thought, okay, I'm, I kept the doors unlocked in case the ambulance need to come and get me because they had no idea what was going on with me and I just kept getting more and more sick. And on my return when I stood up and my leg was working and my face had filled back in and I had some color, there was no part of me that said, oh, you just collapsed. You should call 911 again. It was kind of like I had one leg in this world and one leg on the other side. And I know that to be part of the experience, to not have the trepidation, to not have the panic of something physically bad just happened. You should probably look into it. In fact, I just went about my day. I went to find my dog, and when he saw me, he looked right through me. Like he didn't recognize me, but he did. So I thought that was odd. And then the dominoes just kept falling to add up that, yeah, it was a full experience.

Wow. So let's talk about your experience on the other— on the other side. You said you found yourself in the presence of divine consciousness, I believe is the way you put it.

Yeah. I started my experience. I didn't have any spiritual beliefs. I used to make the joke. I was not a great guy, and I used to make the joke that, well, if God existed, I'll just meet him when I'm dead. I mean, I go, don't, don't bother me. Um, but I also had that fear. I, you know, I wouldn't go to weddings in churches or funerals in churches for fear of being struck by lightning, considering the kind of lifestyle I lived. So I was welcomed into a light-filled landscape that looks something like the Scottish Highlands. It was just these rolling hills and this grass that was all the same length, no trees., and it was moving like it was underwater. It was just waving, and there's all this light emitting from everywhere, and it was beautiful. It was incredible. And, from what I understand in the studies, we're all welcomed by a view or an experience of something that does welcome us the most. You know, if I had seen a church upon my passing, I would have been like, I would have been like, I'm in trouble.

Yeah.

So, for me, it was nature. I always had, no matter who I was in my material existence, I always had an affinity for nature, and that's what it, it kind of dropped me into. And from there, um, from what I understand with the studies, none of us know we've passed. I didn't. And it wasn't until I met a being who looked like he belonged in that place, and that being was dressed like a hiker, like somebody I would pass on a trail and just say hello and keep going. And it wasn't until I, I met this hiker that I will say I made eye contact with him, but I know I didn't have a body. So it was kind of like when my attention and intention hit his, I received this immediate— I call it the 3-hour beach ball of conversation. It just gets put into you, um, this immediate telepathic communication about where I was, what had happened, you know, kind of who he was. He's there to welcome me. All this, all this love that I can't quite put into human words, it's like the greatest welcome you can't give anybody here. But it was from that experience that the near-death side of it happened.

So tell me about what, what happened.

Yeah, so from there, he sensed that I was trying to figure out who he was. And I'll just say this, you can give him any name you want. The names don't really matter over there like they matter here. Um, identification is very different from you know, I wasn't Jonathan over there, you know, I wasn't a male or female. I wasn't a Democrat, Republican, a Christian, Jewish. I wasn't anything. I was a being experiencing the expansion into the fullness of many existences. But this being, I'll say, was 33 years old. He had brown hair and brown eyes, and it was like I could place him, but I couldn't place him. It was like remembering an old friend but forgetting their name. And upon that, he stepped towards me, he could feel that, that wonder on me. And he started to show me a number of different existences that I had lived, as well as summing up the answer to who he was, which was, I am you and you are me. And from there it went right into the life review. Now, my life was not— I was not on the positive side of things. So it was all the nitty-gritty. But that being wasn't there to judge me through it. That being was there to love me through it. And even doing the worst thing I had ever done in my existence, I was loved unconditionally through that experience.

Stay with us. We'll be right back. You know, one of the hardest things about grief— most of the people in your life just don't get it. They want you to be further along than you are. They get uncomfortable when you bring it up, so you stop bringing it up. And that's why I started writing. My Substack is where I go deeper. Thoughts I don't always get to on the podcast. Essays on consciousness, on continuing bonds, on what it actually means to carry a loss and still build a life. The stuff that used to keep me up at night, written out in a way that I hope meets you in the morning. But here's what I didn't expect when I started it. The community that showed up. People who are doing exactly what you're doing. Listening, learning, trying to find their footing. Readers who comment, who share their own stories, who remind each other that none of us are as alone in this as we feel. And that's what the Substack has become— a place to go deeper with me and to find your people. It's free to subscribe. Find me at grief2growth.com/substack. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/substack. Or just go to Substack and search for Grief to Growth. I hope to see you there. So was this any— was it— you, you mentioned that you were pretty materialistic before. Uh, was this a shock to you? Um, how did you receive this?

No, it's not a shock. You know what it is? It's— I like to say that the intellect does die, right? The part of you that has the desire to act a certain way here does die, and you're free. You're free of that filter piece, at least in experience. I was free of that filter piece, which allowed me to experience my life review from more of a— for example, if you did something, you would give it the excuse, well, I had a bad day that day, right? Or I was in a— I didn't sleep enough and I was grumpy like that. That intellectual part of you doesn't make the trip, but the part of you that does is the part that recognizes, okay, I didn't— I didn't understand my connection with another person in that conversation. I didn't show them any compassion. I didn't have love for anybody. I was selfish in that place. Right. So you're feeling it for more, in my case, an observational view, but still tied very much to the being that I was. I would slip in to myself or I would slip in to somebody else in the experience and sometimes have a third, like a third party view of some of the experiences that I had. So you're really not tallying like, okay, screwed that up, screwed that up, screwed that up. You're just kind of you're experiencing from a view without the lens of your human nature, which is desire for gain, right? We're always— every, every action we take is in the name of gain or comfort in some way, whether we realize it or not. And you're free of that there. So you get to the truth of why you do the things you do when you do them. But you also don't have that filter. You feel them in the full brunt. You don't have the filter that says, Well, that's partly their fault too, right? You don't have that, that negotiating piece. So I loved the life review. I feel like I never left. I wish everybody could have it. It's such a tool, uh, to walk through existence having that feeling.

So it sounds like you take ownership of your part in things, but it doesn't make you feel guilty.

No, there was no guilt. There was no shame. There was no judgment. If you want to use the word judgment, you could say there's judgment, but judgment's a harsh word. There's more— more— it was more along the lines of, oh, I missed that opportunity, right? You're not judging or condemning yourself. You're kind of like, okay, I see that, I understand there was love there and I denied it. Um, so in that sense, it's— it can give you great direction. Um, it was just amazing. I could talk talk about it for the next 3 hours.

Yeah, well, go ahead, talk about it.

Yeah, so one of the really interesting parts is coming out of the life review was understanding how connected we all are. It was like when I was slipping into another being experiencing what I was saying to them, it was feeling what they felt. It was feeling what I was, you know, what venom I may have been pointing in their direction, but also having the understanding of if we felt our true connection to each other, we would not— or if we just acknowledge it, we probably wouldn't put ourselves in the position to even have an argument in the first place or say something crude in the first place. So the life review showed me how we are literally connected to all things everywhere, all at once, even things that we think aren't alive. There were scenarios where I would have an argument with somebody and I was the third-person view but I was also the pavement. I was also the paint of the parking lines. I was also the brick building we were next to, the car. I was the sky. I was the sun. And you just feel a wincing. You feel the aliveness of all things around us, and you feel its witness of our existence. And it kind of just winces a little bit. And when you understand that everything here is a part of your existence, there's no such thing as anything not being a part of your existence. You kind of lend yourself to open up a little bit more to, all right, it's not just about me and another person. It's about the future. It's about the past. It's about how this resonates through all existence for all time. Can we just be a little bit more conscious that when we pass, this will mean what it means right now to us in a human state? It'll mean something more for all in another state. So it's, it's something that gives pause to existence. It just grabs you for a second before you engage in something and say, okay, what's this about? And why, why am I, why is the human part of me trying to win? Why is the human part of me trying to gain when it's a false gain rather than from the heart, which is the true gain? Wow.

So, um, You said you, you were, you were dead out for 3 hours. What was the time? That's clock time here. What was the time frame for you like on the other side?

Oh, very, very long. Very long. Um, I can't quite relate it to time so much. I didn't feel time when I left. I didn't feel time in the life review. The life review seemed instant, literally like a snap of a finger, as well as drawn out. For like every second of existence. So it was like this paradox of two experiences in one.

Mhm.

After the life review, I was given the choice to return or stay, but feeling that connection to all people, all things everywhere, it's kind of like you now understand how to facilitate love properly. Do you want to ignore that and stay here, or do you want to go back and help do that? When I said I would go back, I had a second half of my near-death experience which is a little bit rare. And that's where I was giving all these revelations and teachings about time and consciousness and truth and perception and how we work through reality and how it affects all things everywhere. And those teachings, I'll call them teachings, seemed to go on forever, far more than 3 hours. They only stopped at a point where I call it— I received the embrace of God. If you want to use the word— the word God is too small. It's far too small. But, uh, a light appeared and it just started to grow, a different kind of light that just consumed everything. And then when I was fully integrated in that light, I was kind of dropped like a raindrop off of, uh, an edge of a tree branch down into my body. Um, but it was far more than 3 hours. I don't know if I was there 3 million years, 3 years, you know, far more than the time I was gone.

Yeah, so time dilates on that side is what I understand.

Yeah, yeah, it's like it doesn't exist. It's, it It's one of the things that's changed for me on return. Time has never been the same for me since coming back, and I don't know if it's because I experienced its flux in a state, um, on the other side, but it, it doesn't register as time. It seems like everything is immediate and everything is really drawn out, so it's hard to say what time is. I, I like to call time nothing more than a slow-motion view of what existence really is. Existence was shown to me as sparks. So as soon as it gets hot and red, it dissipates. So it literally is immediate. An entire existence is one snap of the fingers. It's immediate. But time is the slow motion view that allows us to experience it. So with that, without time, we wouldn't have the ability to build awareness of how we're living our lives or what love feels like or all the beauty and the richness of existence. So time does serves a purpose here, but not so much there.

Yeah. So you, you said you also, you received some teachings. Now, I've heard, I talked to a lot of people that have had near-death experiences and say, I, I got the teachings, but I wasn't really able to bring them back. Were you able to bring them back with you?

Yeah, there are a couple rare things about my experience. The first one is I could remember it when I got back. You know, for most of the studies, it takes years before, you know, I think the average is 7 years, and then they're kind of like, well, something, something happened. Um, in my case, I remembered it right away, immediately. The other thing is all of those teachings returned with me. I came back with them. I was given a couple of warnings about them before returning by this being, but it's— I feel like it's a part of me in a weird way. It doesn't come from memory. It's like it's baked into the DNA now, which is very strange. Um, when I do interviews or anything like that, I don't have to think about them. They just come out. They have a life of their own. One of the things I was told, the teachings were for the one, not the 99. And I didn't understand really fully what that meant until I started giving audience talks and guidance where people would say, oh, this is really interesting. It's really unique. There's something I picked up on that. There was that one thing you said, and I get emails. There was the one thing, the one thing, the one thing. And I realized after a bit they were hearing something I wasn't saying. So they were taking information in. It was unique to them. It was catered to them. They would— it would resonate with them. They would feel something, a shift inside, and they would move through life differently. So I figured out it was for the one because it is alive in a sense. And everybody who hears it, it's customized to them. It wasn't for the 99. Like, it's not okay, everybody, this is truth. Right? It's going to be customized to the way you understand truth. So it does have a life of its own. It comes out in different ways. I record my talks just so I can go back and understand what came through oftentimes. But yeah, I just know that the reason I, I didn't forget it or the reason it's baked into me is because I was told on the other side I'm supposed to share it. And that's all I'm doing. I come back and I talk and I say yes to everything and I try to provide guidance. I don't charge anybody anything. I live off donations, and I'm just here to give you that information if you seek it.

So, um, what are— what were some of the things that you were— you were told? I know this sounds like it's probably a lot, but, you know, some of the— some of the— I would guess some of the questions that people have, like, why are we here? Is there anything that loves us or cares about us? Those types of things.

Yeah, there's a, uh— I mean, having met it and having been integrated with it, there's, beyond doubt that there's a benevolent force in and around you all day, every day. I like to say we're the children walking through existence, holding the hand of a parent, but we always forget we're holding that hand until we stop and they go, oh, you're still here. So yeah, there is a benevolent force around us. Our lives are— you could say everybody looks for their purpose, but I like to say that on my return, there's nothing to do. There's nothing to change and there's nothing to fix. There's only to experience your existence through a heart space or a heart-centered space rather than the material view of existence, which would be through your intellect, which always, always desires more. It's insatiable. You could get all the answers of the world today through the intellect and you would still look for another answer tomorrow. So it's also understanding that because we're so connected, our lives really aren't ours in a sense. It's— we're all here serving. We all bought the ticket to come down here, and we're all serving each other without realizing, without realizing we're actually serving each other. Our existences can only be rich or fulfilled through what we experience with others, whether that's at work or school or your neighbors or your friends. So we rely on each other to provide this golden experience. However, we're constantly trying to separate ourselves into something unique and different so that we can focus on our experience. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that. Everybody does it. It's just on occasion when we do encounter others who are maybe hurting or suffering or angry with us, is to remember that they're just experiencing what they need to experience through us, as I am through them. So purpose is kind of like— it's not an individual achievement here. It's a collective movement. And the more you sit in that space, the more that benevolent force around, around us kind of says, okay, you don't need the heat anymore. You don't need, you know, to be pushed in a certain direction. Your free will has now aligned with what real purpose is, which is just to be aware of our existence and how it affects others.

Yeah. So you, um, you mentioned when you got the— you, I think you said you felt this great love A lot of times people, they'll say, well, I don't want to come back. So you made the conscious decision to come back. What was— why, why did you decide to come back?

It was coming out of the life review, realizing what our connection was to all. It was kind of— and I don't know if everybody gets to experience that. But in my case, it was so deep. It was understanding my connection to eternity in a way, to all humans. There was something in my life review I was shown, you know, being a busy executive, I was the kind of guy who was just not empathetic or sympathetic to anybody ever. I just didn't care about people. And there was a circumstance where I had somebody in an office, uh, that I was managing who was just looking for a little bit of time and reassurance to know that this gentleman was not going to get fired. And instead of giving him that time, he would show up in front of my office door every morning before I was at work just to say good morning and to let me know that he was here on time and he was going to do the work. And instead of giving him the time, I ignored him and I shunned him. And it was like, I don't have time for you and I don't have time for the weakness that you're showing me right now. Well, when I experienced that on the other side, it was more than eye-opening. I would say it's soul-changing to understand every time he walked away from my office and went back back to his, I was shown how his mood changed, how depression set in, how other co-workers would try to cheer him up and fail, how he ended up drinking heavily, even more than he had already been drinking, how it affected his son's birth, his marriage, how it was passed to his son in the behaviors that he had. They were— I was shown the ripple of a, basically a stone dropping in a pond and how everything ripples out. So leaving, leaving that, uh, life, I guess the life review, in the situation where I felt— I just felt a oneness and a love for everybody. I mean, just immediately it was kind of like, well, of course I'll go back and help. I mean, existence was only shown to me as that it's over. So from that perspective, it wasn't like, well, I'm going to come back for another 50 years. It's kind of like, I'll be back in a second. So yeah, of course I'll go help. So in my case, it was— I like to say it's a divine joke. There was, well, do you want to stay here with me, or do you want to go back? And I'm like, well, I already feel my depth of connection with everything. Of course I'm going to go back and help. Why would I stay? You know, I'm going to be back in a second. So yeah, that, that's why I chose to come back.

Wow. So were you able to bring that continued sense of connection back, or do you feel isolated like, like the rest of us do sometimes?

Yeah, no, it's very strange. Like, for example, I hated my neighbors. I just didn't like my neighbors. And within 3 hours, I'm back, and I'm— I remember taking my first shower and just laughing. I'm like, I can't believe it, I love my neighbors. I don't know why, but I love my neighbors. And it's strange, I just have this different view of existence now, and I love everybody. I literally, across the world, I don't care what anybody has done. And I just carry that all the time. And people say, well, that must get tiring, you know, because there are all kinds of people. And I said, no, it's actually freeing. I don't have to judge anybody or where they are or what they're doing. I love everybody. So I live in this gifted space. Like, for me, it's like, yes, my existence is completely different. I won't be buying boats or cars. Like, I won't have that part of me that didn't return. But I have this essence within me now that I just get to share with people, and it's the most amazing thing. It's so much greater than what I would call a rich human existence.

Yeah. So did you quit your, your job when you came back?

Yeah, I was a C-level executive, you know, um, a six-figure guy, and I just literally, the day that I came back, within an hour, I just knew I could never be in a position to trade something for money. There was never going to be a transaction. I managed large groups of people as an executive, and you're always trying to move the pieces on the board for the business's gain, not their gain. So there's a manipulation problem in that space where you're just constantly trying to wring blood out of a stone, and nobody's getting raises for it. They're just feeling fear of losing their jobs, so they do it.. And I realized I could never ever do that again. I could never be in a position where I tried to manipulate somebody for my gain. It just, that, that it ended that day. I never went back to work. I sold everything, sold, literally gave away, lit— I live like a monk. Everything's gone. I live off donations. I've lived off donations for the last 3 years and I make enough to eat. And that's perfect because I have— I didn't return with desire that said, oh, that pair of jeans would be good, or, oh, let's go to a restaurant. I have no desire whatsoever for food, money, sex, companionship, entertainment, nothing. So for me, having just enough to eat is perfect. It's a perfect existence for me. And that's why I give this information away. There will never be, you know, pay, pay for my course kind of thing. That's just not the spot that I'm in. But, and I don't know how long I'm here for. I, I don't imagine it's for another 50 years. So I'm just here to share the information, to help as many people as I can shift their perspective. And in doing so, that relieves suffering.

Yeah. And I know you were told not to self-promote.

So yeah, I was given a very clear message. Receive only what you are given. Take nothing for yourself. And people, when people hear that, they hear it different ways. I know that receive only what you are given is basically saying you, you will be taken care of. Don't worry about it. Like, you don't, I, I've received that message a number of times. Do not worry about money. Okay. So I, I go and I buy groceries and I always know there's money in there. I don't check it. I just trust it. The second half of that is take nothing for yourself. That was more for me, in a sense, because if I'm taking something for myself, if I'm desiring something or I'm going after it, I'm saying that there's a yourself that I'm doing it for. The fabricated self. I returned without that fabricated self. There's nothing to take for. There's nothing to do for. There's no nothing to reach for or entertain. Uh, I don't have the desires that are based on the fabricated self, whereas before as an executive, I have all the things I want to go and take, right? I want the good champagne, the good food. I want the good golf course, all the stuff, right? So that message was very clear to me. And that's why I don't charge people. The second I start trying to put myself in a position where I'm rebuilding a fabricated version of who I am, then I'm taking things for that fabricated version. I'm no longer in the space of giving.

Yeah. So this is— this is— that's the message for you. Is, is this something that we should all take in? Which we not have money? Is that a bad thing?

No, no. And I have a lot of wealthy people ask me those questions. You know, I have two houses or a few boats, an airplane. And I tell everybody, everything in your existence is there for a reason. It's more about the shift of perception, right? If you're a multimillionaire and you have all the things, you could say the part of you that got you all the things was this constant reach out of the— in the name of desire. I want that. I need to have that.

Right.

And then the shift in perspective is, well, I have things. How do I share the things? How do I have gratitude for the things? Like, I was the kind of guy that bought a boat. Then I realized one boat was enough, so I bought another boat. Then I have two boats. And then you look at both boats and you're like, neither one is big enough. So you keep shopping. You just keep looking for something more.

Yeah.

And it's when you catch yourself in the space that you realize, well, I can have gratitude for where I am today, right now, in this moment. I don't need a new boat today. I could have gratitude for the stuff that I have. So it's not whether you release everything or sell everything. It's more about shifting to that heart-based perspective, which is there's that benevolent being around us all the time. I have the boats because I'm supposed to have the boats. Can I enjoy the boats from a place of gratitude and the heart versus need more stuff.

Yeah. So we— you, you mentioned this earlier, and because most people have an NDE, it takes them quite a while to integrate the experience. Yeah, you said 7 to 14 years on average to, to fully integrate it. People come back a lot of times depressed, you know, um, feeling disoriented, you know, confused, you know, all those things. Sometimes takes a while to recall them. So where would you say you are? Because you're like, you know, as far as NDE person, you're like a baby NDE person at this point.

I know, it's wild. Um, I sat on a bunch of the experiencer calls with IANDS, um, just to see. I was curious, where, where am I as far as the experiencers go? And I was so rare to sit on those calls, sometimes 30, 50 other near-death experiencers, and not have the problem talking about it, not have the problem sharing any part of it. Like, there were people in there that I've had experiences for 30 years and have never even shared it with their significant other.

Exactly.

Yeah. And it was just so strange for me, other than what I was told on the other side, like, you're going to be sharing information, you're not going to be able to be you anymore. And it's kind of like, I understand it in a way that there was a sacrifice. I was not returning to life. Like, this isn't a second chance for the executive. I am here strictly as a piece of paper with a bunch of notes written on it. I don't get to fly to Italy to eat the pasta or drink the wine. There's no part of me that would ever imagine doing it. So I'm strictly in this space of being a mouthpiece for whatever it wants to say. I came back with all the clairs. I came back with psychic abilities that just keep growing stronger. I've done medium work, all the stuff that that if the executive had heard of it, he would have laughed, right? Laughed in your face at the thought. So I'm here for a specific reason. There have been people that I've spoken to that have had incredible shifts in their understanding or in their lives, spiritual shifts. And I think I'm just here for that. I'm not here for everybody. I'm not somebody who's walking around the planet saying, okay, I need to get in front of more people. I don't, I don't promote myself. But there seems to be this magical thing where people are placed in front of me when they need to be placed in front of me. So I just consider myself, I'm a tool in the garden that gets picked up every once in a while. Like I'm, and when I'm not, people ask what I'm doing. I'm sitting on a park bench feeding birds kind of thing. I don't do anything. I don't entertain myself in any way. Other than existing. So it's, uh, yeah, it's very different, and I don't know why it's so different other than the information I was given.

Now, I'm, I would guess by now you probably heard the term walk-in if you've been around Ian's people. Uh, would you consider yourself a walk-in?

Yes and no. I consider myself more of a walk-out. Um, so it, you know, the way I've read about walk-ins is one soul decides to check out and another soul says, I'll come back. There's a part of me that knows that that soul that left didn't come back. Something else did. I don't know if you would call it another soul who's looking to fulfill something. I, I tend to think not. I'm more like a walkout because things have come in and out of me. Sometimes I call myself a canoe in which some things just come in for a ride and then leave. It's, it's a different existence in a way. Where I don't have the human part that is here for the lessons anymore. Right. The lessons come from— I would get into a relationship and see if— how can I manage through that relationship as a near-death experiencer with information? But I know I'll never be in a relationship, right? I know I will never be put into a situation where I have to pick money versus person. All of those things have been removed. So it's why I call myself a walkout, because there's nothing in here that's supposed to experience existence in a way that I have to worry about another life review, right? That's kind of like it's done. It's ongoing in a way, but it's done. I'm never in a position to fight desire anymore.

Yeah. And, you know, when I first heard the term walk-in, it sounded like it was like a soul swap. Like, you're one person, then you're another person. Now I think of more of a— like, it's like an upgraded version of yourself that walks in is the way I kind of view it.

Yeah, I could say that, um, in a way I think that person who was in here was certainly upgraded. But like, for example, that person— I could also say that person never returned at all because there was so much missing from that life. It's like I have some of the memories of that life, but I'm missing so much, and I can't feel the memories, which is very different. So I have them of kind of like Polaroid pictures or short videos. I can't feel the experiences. Like, hmm, I had really wanted this specific motorcycle that was a, you know, like a customized anniversary edition of this bike. I knew everything about it, how fast, how heavy, everything, the year. And I came back and when I looked outside and I saw it in the driveway, I couldn't have told you anything. I still can't. I know nothing about it. I know, I know the brand. I don't even know the model, the year, nothing. And I have so much of that where I felt that this person who was in here was very into certain things. And now I'm in this place. I know nothing about them. So I have a hard time putting a label on exactly what it is or why.

Sure.

But I just know I'm here to— I'm here as a messenger in a way to, to release some information. And then what happens from there, who knows?

Yeah. And you mentioned some of the clairs that you have. For those people that are listening, clairs are abilities or senses, extrasensory, I guess. Um, so tell me about the clairs that you came back with.

Yeah, I have all of them. I can see the knowing, claircognizance. I can hear, uh, auditorily. I'll know if something's in the room or if I'm about to get a prediction. Um, I get visions. I can smell. I can taste it. Um, I have like this soul scent, which I believe Rudolf Steiner talked about a little bit. Um, it's, it's all of the above. Um, there's no one part of it that I don't have. It took me a year to kind of settle into this because I to go from a materialistic executive who was worried about who's playing football to now getting predictions about things happening in the world, took a bit to get used to. I predicted the LA wildfires 3 days before they happened, an avalanche in Switzerland that swallowed a village, earthquakes throughout, and many things to come. And I use it for people. I don't use it for myself. That was a message I received. Again, it was like, do not use anything for yourself. So I help people who have lost others with medium work, or I help them with guidance. Um, you could call it psychic readings, but I, I try not to. Um, if you're looking to know who you're supposed to marry or not, I won't give you that answer. That doesn't serve as, as progression. So I know I'm given these things strictly to help others progress through the places they're stuck with their their view or their lens of what their existence is actually about.

Yeah. Now, I— most of us live with this thing that we call the veil, uh, or I call the veil, right? This, this forgetfulness, this not— we don't have the clairs, we don't have all those senses.

Yeah.

Um, what do you think the purpose is of you having these abilities? Because I, I, I tell people, I think the veil's there for a reason. Be careful what you wish for, because people— a lot of times people that come back from these experiences it's not a, it's not a good thing to have an NDE. Sounds like it's a different experience for you. But for the rest of us, what is the purpose of the forgetfulness?

Yeah, I would say it's definitely not easy, or I wouldn't recommend an NDE. You know, your life, it literally gets turned upside down. Um, you know, the veil— I look at the veil a little bit differently. The forgetfulness, when I experienced a view of other existences on the other side, and I have also experienced it here as well, some more. If you can imagine what it would feel like to have— imagine every thought you've ever had. Now multiply that by another existence, the weight of it, the yearning for happiness, comfort, the desire for things. Imagine all those thoughts you've had in your lifetime. Now multiply that by multiple lifetimes. You don't want to remember. You trust me, you don't. When I felt— and when I felt that it was crushing, I think it would break us if we did have the remembering. I do believe there's a bleed over, though. We're supposed to remember certain things, right? We're drawn to certain things in our life for certain reasons. You know, some of us are drawn to sports, or some of us are drawn to cooking, and you wonder, well, why? I don't know. It's just something I liked. And you're kind of— you understand that existence is like this simultaneous this thing that happens. It isn't linear time, like, oh, that, that existence was a thousand years ago. It's kind of overlapping in a weird way. So you have this bleed through, but the veil, as I understand it, is, is more transparent than you would believe. The veil— I like to call you the veil. Who you think you are is the veil. Like, all of our spiritual beliefs, all of our definitions of what we think reality is, all our positions that we take for understanding. When you start to release them, you start to pull back this curtain, of which on the other side is the sun. The sun's always been shining. It's never not been shining. And when you kind of pull it back, you realize, oh, did you guys know there's a sun out here? And it's kind of like, yeah. And then you shut the curtain again. You know, you, you stub your toe in a piece of furniture and this curtain gets shut, right? So it's it's being aware or finding stillness within yourself, which is the absence of that fabricated self trying to find and get or seek something. Yeah, that allows that curtain to be pulled back. And I like to tell everybody, yes, I was given a lot of information and I have a greater understanding of how existence works. But you can have that too. You don't need the experience. You know, it's more or less pull, pull the curtain back and let yourself feel it every now and then, expose yourself to it. It's there. It's literally knocking on the window on the other side of the curtain. And when you get into that space, you— that's when you start to remember. A lot of people say we're here to learn. And I'll adjust that word a little bit. So yes, there are some things you are here to learn. But for the most part, you're here to remember. You're here to remember you're a loving being. You're here to remember your connection to all things. You're here to remember that there's a benevolent force around us all the time. And when you start remembering in that space, it— stuff is given to you. You just receive. You're in a state of reception versus I need information to give me an answer. That's pushing it all away, right? Somebody's trying to hand you something. You're like, no thanks. Let me, let me go get it. So it's really recognizing where you are in your existence. You know, have a, have a meditative practice that'll help you have a gratitude practice when you wake up. That'll help you. Or just take a walk in nature every once in a while and just be grateful. It's in those spaces that you're allowed to remember more.

Yeah. So, Jonathan, I'm curious about relationships because, again, a lot of times people that have had a near-death experience struggle with relationships. You know, they might come back and their spouse says, I don't even know who you are. What's it been like for you with family, friends, etc.?

Yeah, friends across the board, I would say I lost 99.9% of them. I mean, I was not a spiritual person. I would have laughed in your face if you were spiritual. So I hung out with those people. Sure. And here I come back as fully spiritual. And they're like, no, no, no, you're changed. So all the friends disappeared. Family's good. Family. It's hard, right? It's like my mother and brother, I think, have a harder time with it. My father's on his way out of existence, so he's very open to it. But— it's how do you rationalize someone who you knew so well, who then wakes up and is not that person anymore? It's like, you look the same, you sound the same, but you're not the same. And I think that's across the board. I, I don't— I was a single guy when I passed, happy to date anybody kind of guy. And now I'm sitting in this place where I don't feel the need for any type of relationship. I don't seek friends. I love everybody. I don't have a definition of what a friend is. I'll do anything for anyone if I can. I don't have a definition anymore for what's family and what's not. It's after experiencing and understanding that connection, we're, we're more connected than we realize because those ties are far deeper than any familial tie we think we have. It's like everybody's your mother, everybody's your brother, everybody's your sister. So I walk through life with just, I don't know you, but I already love you. What do you— what can I help you with? How can I serve you today? Um, so yeah, it, it's part of that complete change that I came back. It's not a normal human existence.

Yeah, I would imagine not. And, and I know when we, when we try to change, a lot of times family's like, no, no, no, this is who you are. You've always been Jonathan. You've always been like this. So you've mentioned your mother and your brother. Did they ever say, no, I know who you are?

No, I can feel things on them. They don't come out and say it, but I can feel the thoughts. Uh, I get one of the gifts. Um, no, there was never any challenge to me about who I was because it's so different. It wasn't like I came back 3 degrees different, right? It was like completely different. So it's just kind of like, okay, that's who he is now. Um, I have had friends though wonder, right? You know, friends like, is it true? Is it real? Like, is it real? And then you have like the 10-minute conversation with them, and instead of, you know, giving the special handshake or like bumping elbows as just one of the bros, you're like, let me give you a hug. And they're like, there's just something so weird with you, something so different.

Yeah.

So it's— yeah, I don't get the calls to go out for a beer anymore, any, any of that stuff. And I came back I would never have one again. So it's kind of like it just slowly dissipated. No one ever challenged me from the friend pool because I know they can feel what's on me or in me or around me. And when I walk by people in the grocery store, they, they can feel it, especially the ones who knew me before. Yeah.

So you mentioned you wouldn't go out for a beer anymore. You don't drink beer. Are you vegan? How have the things changed?

Yeah, a lot. You know, I was a coffee snob. I had 10 different ways to make coffee in the house, and I would do pour-overs and all the special stuff. And I loved getting into making coffee, and I came back and I can't drink coffee anymore. It's just, I'm not allowed any stimulants. Coffee, sugar, alcohol. Alcohol was a part of my life, being out and socializing. Even the sports that I did were, you know, there was always an alcoholic aspect to it. More you went out and nope. No alcohol whatsoever. I was somebody who ate out almost every night. I wanted to be in the busy restaurant enjoying the great food. I haven't eaten out. I won't eat out. I seek solitude. I was the guy that wanted to be in the busiest bar in the middle of the tornado with the band going and everyone's getting loud and having fun. And now I struggle to walk into a busy coffee shop. I just feel too much. So Yeah, life changed. My diet is different. People ask me all the time, are you vegan? Do you eat meat? And I said, well, what I experienced on the other side is everything is here experiencing what they're supposed to experience. And if the cow chooses to experience as a cow to be eaten, then that was its choice because it's not really a cow. Everything here is a being. Everything here is alive. The rock you kick is just as alive as the cow. You just don't realize it. So it's kind of like there is nothing here that we're not supposed to experience. In fact, there's no place that we can stand where we don't affect the life and death cycle of all things here.

Exactly.

So all we can do is experience it and have gratitude for it. You know, we look at death as an awful thing here. We're just not good with it. And in the end, death is the release. It's freedom. It's, it's like like it's leaving prison. And if something is supposed to die the way it's supposed to die, it's not to be horribly sad over it. There will be that grief, there will be that struggle. But if you can bring it to the end where it's love, to know that that being experienced what they're— they experienced, to be free of it, then we can start to love the fullness of the experience rather than just segments of it.

Yeah. You, you mentioned at the beginning that the being that you encountered 33 years old, brown hair, brown eyes. And looking at you and talking to you, I, I'm hearing a lot of Jesus in what you're saying.

What are you talking about? I look nothing like the guy.

I don't know, but, but, you know, really, and it's really interesting to me because I was raised as a Christian and I was told there's just a special being, Jesus, who was the Son of God. And I know a lot of, a lot of atheist materialists, they'll go to the other side and they're like, I was really surprised, I met this guy named Jesus. Any thoughts on that?

Yeah, I— the reason why I don't use his name is because of our concept of what he is or who he is. It's— you will hear a lot of him come through me because that's what comes through, right? That's who is showing me all of these things. I just know that you can remove any religious context you have for him. Right? Like, he was pre-religion, right? He was— his lessons had no religion. His lessons were the kingdom of God is within. And it's all of the stuff that we have afterwards that we point at the picture and say, I worship him, instead of understanding what he was trying to show us. I'll just say God has no religion. When I was there and I was fully integrated with it, it there, there are no defining lines that says he's this or he isn't this. What I will say is what he represents and what I felt mostly was love, right? You could remove the name Jesus and just call it love. And it was the most incredible love and brotherly love and a love that you want to feel the rest of your days. But then you realize that love is already within you, that love lives within you. And it's, it's a matter of calling it forward. It's not something you necessarily have to be taught. But yeah, it was him, but not him as you would call him based on human understanding.

No, I absolutely understand. You know, I think that I know the person Jesus has been hijacked by one religion in particular who have made that person into something that he wasn't, who put words in his mouth. I hear from you what I believe the true message that he was trying to deliver, which does go beyond any particular religion, which is why the religious people conspired to have him murdered. It's not like, you know, they were all, they were all into him, right?

Yeah, you have it right. Um, he was not religious in the way he spoke. He was not, um, divisive in the way he spoke. He was incredibly loving and incredibly sharing and has showed up in me in ways that others have seen And I always laugh. That's why I record the call, the talks that I do, because sometimes he does come through. So, but he's in everybody. That's, that's the problem until you understand that he's, he never left. He's in, he's within all of us. It's just a matter of letting him, letting him come through.

Yeah. So Jonathan, for people that are, that are listening, and a lot of times people that listen to my program are people who are grieving, They've been through some of the worst things in life. They're asking themselves, why? Why am I here? What's the meaning of all this? What message do you have for them?

You are loved more than you could ever possibly imagine. In, in everything that you're experiencing, there is love. And it's hard to feel it when you're at the bottom, you know, when you're, when you're underwater, so to speak. But there's a hand there's a hand there for you to grab. And if you just acknowledge that it's in the room with you, it'll help. It's waiting for your acknowledgement. It doesn't need your worship. It doesn't need you to light a candle for it. It just wants you to know that it's there and talk to it. You don't need to be on your knees. You don't need to find a church. You just need to be in your heart. And that's what it's waiting for.

Wow. Okay. Great. I think that is a great way to end our time together today. I know, I know you allow people to reach out to you. You don't sell anything, but if people do want to reach out to you, how can they do that?

You can reach me at JonathanAshford.com is my website.

Okay, that's great. I'll put that in the show notes and everything. Jonathan, it's been an honor. Thanks for being here today.

Thank you, Brian. Thank you so much.

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