He REMEMBERED Before Birth! Christian Sundberg's INCREDIBLE Pre-Earth Memories!

You know you need something, you're just not sure what. You've been listening, you're doing the work, but there's still this feeling that you're circling the same place, like you're waiting for the thing that finally moves you. Now maybe you've thought about working with me one-on-one. Maybe something's held you back, the timing, the money, or you're just not sure you're ready yet. I get that. And I want you to know there's still a place for you. I built a resource for exactly this moment, guided meditations for when the waves hit and you just need to breathe. Workbooks to help you get out of your head and onto the page, ebooks on what near-death experiences tell us about the people we've lost, and whether they're really gone, a full course for widows and widowers who are ready to find their way back to living, and a full course for the evidence of the afterlife. And all of it is available for pay what you want. Nobody gets turned away because of money. I think these resources are valuable, but I don't want to hold them back because you don't have the money to pay for them. You don't have to wait until you're ready for coaching. The next step might be a lot smaller than you think. To find out, go to grief2growth.com/store. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/store. And check out the resources I've made for you.

Hi there, welcome to Grief to Growth Podcast. Your host is Brian D Smith, spiritual seeker, bestselling author, grief survivor, and life coach. Brian believes that the worst tragedies of life provide the greatest opportunity for growth. Brian says he was planted, not buried, and he is here to help you grow where you've been planted by the difficulties in life. In each episode, Brian and his guests will share what has helped them to survive and thrive. It is his sincere hope this episode helps you today.

Hey everybody, this is Brian. I'm back with another episode of Grief to Growth, and today I've got with me Christian Sundberg, and I'm really excited to talk to Christian. I've been following him for a while. I've heard him speak a couple of times. He's got a fascinating story and a really great message that I think you— I know you're going to enjoy hearing. When Christian was a young child, he remembered his existence before coming to Earth. And while that memory left him completely for his early adult life, it spontaneously returned 12 years ago as he took up a meditation practice and went through a personal awakening journey. He also began to have out-of-body experiences, or OOBEs, or OBEs. Christian now often speaks publicly as he seeks to remind others in at least a small part of who we really are beneath the human play, in quotes. Professionally, Christian has worked for 16 years as a project manager for complex nuclear pump and valve manufacturing projects, and is also now working for an insurance company. He's the author of the book A Walk in the Physical, which attempts to succinctly describe the larger spiritual context in which we exist and the importance of love in our human journey. So with that, I want to welcome to Grief to Growth Christian Sundberg.

Thank you so much, Brian. It's an honor to be here. Thank you.

Yeah, I, as I said earlier, I'm really excited about talking to you. I've heard your story probably 2 or 3 years ago, I think now. I've heard you speak. I reference you all the time because I've learned so much from your experiences and from what you've shared. You share your book freely. It's available for people to download free. So you're so generous with your time. So I appreciate you being here and doing this.

Sure, no problem, sir.

So if you could start telling— you said you had early remembrances when you were a child, before being in the body. So what was that like?

What was the experience like? Or what was it like being a child who had the memory?

What was the experience like?

Okay, so the, the pre-incarnative state is very difficult to describe in language. I'll just try— I'll just let me just please first disclaim that it's really important to say that language cannot possibly speak to, to this content. You know, our higher natures and who we really are, it just so vastly transcends the metaphor set that we use as humans, you know, all the forms and symbols of language, it's so crude. So it's extremely difficult to try to describe. What I can say is that we are multidimensional beings, who are beings of love and joy and freedom. That is our true nature. That's what we really are. And we undertake certain experiences for the purposes of creativity and growth, personal growth and growth of all that is, collective growth. And the human experience is a very, very unique, very special, very high, high specialty, high uniqueness, high— what's the word I'm looking for— extremity type of experience that enables a very unique type of growth through the contrast of the human experience. So from that state, I— that's— this is something that I wanted to do. And, you know, I felt very honored, deeply honored that I was given the chance to, you know, to be human.

So if I remember correctly, you, you encountered a being in that state that inspired you to, to want to become human. Is that correct?

Yes, yeah. So, and again, this is so difficult to describe it. Okay, yeah. So I remember coming across a being long, long ago, like before I had ever been physical in this type of an experience in this universe. And feeling from this being the incredible quality and nature of this being's essence, like who he is, who he was, I could feel from him. Because in those reality systems, they're thought responsive, and we're all connected to each other, we can feel the connection, we know that we're all one with each other, even as we're individuated too. And this being was just so full of joy and power and love. And it was amazing. It was breathtaking. And I asked him like, oh my goodness, do you, do you really feel the depths that I feel you feel? And he shared with me, yes. And he like kind of allowed me to telepathically explore it. And I was like, how did you do that? Like, what could you possibly have done? And he shared with me that he had lived physical lives, and he shared one in particular, in which he had dealt with a very difficult, painful health condition that lasted for a number of years. And the way that he chose to meet that experience and integrate it and shine through it allowed a refinement of his being, a deepening, a refinement of who he, who he was and who he is. That's the only way I can describe it. And I was like, I want to do that. I want to do that. I was like, totally inspired. Like, I want to do that. I'll whatever it takes. And, you know, at first he kind of brushed me off, like, not negatively, but kind of in a playful way, like, yeah, that's what they all say, like, you don't know how difficult it can be. And I persisted. And I said, no, I want to do that, that this is something I definitely, I definitely want to do. And he said, well, then go, go speak with your guides. So I did that. And I don't have memory right after that. But I remember having lived many times, And then being in a period. So I don't know if you want me to go this far, but not this life, before this life, but the life immediately preceding this life, I was in the in-between life state. And I remember this guide coming to me over and over again and asking, are you ready to go back yet? Are you ready to go back yet? Because I was taking a long break, like I was enjoying the freedom of that state of being. And it's like being on a long holiday or something and being reluctant to go back to work. I don't know, maybe, maybe that's a terrible metaphor, because we don't have to do it. It's by choice. We have total freedom. We have total freedom to do this. But it was like he kept reminding me of my own intention, like, oh, you know, you intend to do this, or you want to go back. And eventually I said, yes, I'm ready to go back. And then reviewing with this guide what I can only describe as my state, like who I am, who I've been, who I was, like the, the qualities of experience that I knew, and that I had— I don't want to use the word learned, but come to understand and that they were a part of me, maybe like reviewing virtues, but I don't, I don't want to put it like that, because it's not like we're just, you know, earning something. It's more like what we've become able to integrate and qualities that we've developed through experience. And I could see there was this one area that was like, very obvious, like that it would be beneficial for me to work on that, so to speak. And it was this, it was a fear, it was this very specific low vibration fear that had bested me, overcome me in a previous experience. And, and because of that fear in that lifetime, I had turned out to be a very egoic and hurtful person, I caused a lot of damage to others. It's not, not true damage. Because, you know, we can't actually truly be harmed in the physical. We're, we're immortal spirit, we can actually be harmed. But within the context of the physical, I had caused damage to others because of this ego that had arisen in me in response to the fear. So I knew, like, wow, you know, if I could integrate that, if I could heal that fear and really work through that, oh, that would be incredible. But I even from that point of view, I could see like, oh my goodness, the extremity of the low vibration of this fear. It was so extreme. I remember asking, can it even be— is this even possible? Like, has any being ever in all of creation integrated a vibration that's this low successfully? And I was told yes. And you have all of time available to you to do so. There's no hurry. And I, and I just knew, like, if it can be done, I will do it. You know, like, which, as the human, sounds so strange. Because I've been through a lot of trauma and pain and difficulty in this life, that's what I signed up for. But from that perspective, I, I knew, I knew what I am and what we are. You know, we are immortal, powerful beings, we cannot fail, we cannot die, we cannot truly be hurt. We are so, we have so much potential. I don't know how else to describe it, so much depth and wonder. And I just knew, like, if it can be done, I'll I'll do it. So they brought me a lifetime that was appropriate for that intention. And it wasn't this life, it was an immediately preceding life. And I reviewed that lifetime. And I accepted it. And then I accepted the veil, which is— it's just a word. But the veil represents the constraints in consciousness space and consciousness that go along with the incarnation. And it's like, it's like a plummet in the vibration of your being. Down, down, down, down, down, down, lower, lower, lower, from this place of total connectedness and knowing and freedom, down, down, down into this place of incredible limitation and like disconnectedness. You feel separate, you know, I feel separate here, we feel separate while we're human. And a place that was very dense and also like cold, just like empty. So after the veil had come over me, within seconds, I'm like, I am not doing this. This is, this is so low vibration. This is not happening. Like, there's just no way I'm going to tolerate this for a lifetime. And I reacted in fear. I just immediately had so much fear prompted in me because the vibration of just even being incarnated in this body, not this body, but the one before, it was so low. That I summoned my might, my strength, and I smote the veil. I fought my way out. And I was successful in doing so. Because I was back on the other side. But I became aware that by doing that, I had killed the fetus, I killed the body that was to be my body. And I had a life review, just like as is described by near-death experiencers, I could see how my fear had affected not only the poor mother, it was primarily the mother, but not only the mother, but also hundreds of people that the mother would interact with in her life, that it would make their journeys more difficult, all because of the grief that I had heaped onto the mother because of her loss. And I could see it very clearly. And so, so from that side, like, it can be seen, everything's okay. Like, there's not like a true failure, everything, it's just a play. Like, it's okay, it's totally okay.. But I also could just see very objectively, like, oh man, I got a lot of fear. I got a lot of fear, I gotta do something about this. So, so I still had this intention. So they brought me this life sometime later. And I reviewed this life in detail. And this life was good. It wasn't as appropriate as the first one would have been. The first one was like a near perfect match for what I was trying to accomplish and experience. This life wasn't bad. And I remember reviewing this life in incredible detail, like millions and millions of possibilities of what— how this life might unfold. It was like reviewing a probability tree, like if you took a tree and laid it on its side and started at the thick part of the trunk and worked your way out to the branches. It was, it was kind of like that. And the branches are like different avenues that might actualize through the life.. And it was an experience of what it would be like to be me in those branches. You know, there were events in it, but it wasn't primarily about events. It was primarily about what, what I would feel and what I would experience, you know, being Christian, the human. And I reviewed it in detail, and I made certain requests for the life. And then I remember there having to be a moment to say yes. And I don't remember that moment. But I remember being in this waiting area.. And this being suddenly coming to me, my guide, and grabbing my attention, like, go now, like, now's the time, like, Earth time, buddy, that kind of thing. I was like, okay, now, you know, because the timeline, the linear time of Earth is such a denser, much more, like, sludgy, slow-defined, linear time, and I had to, like, engage it or something. So I next was in this room. That I can only describe as a technician's chamber or a mechanic's shop, something like that, where I was over this shaft and the earth was below me. And there were these beings in this chamber who were very technical in nature. And they, they're like veil technicians or something. I don't know how to describe that. But they're beings who help facilitate applying the veil to you specifically. Because the veil is very organic and personal. And the soul has many specific qualities. And the lifetime, the body, the circumstances has its own thing going on. And they do this thing where they like energetically make it all fit. They make it all, you know, jive. And I remember them asking me one last time, are you sure? Are you sure you want to do this? Because I knew once I said yes here, that I was strapped in for the ride. It's like, like getting in a roller coaster, you know, where you once you're strapped in, you can't get out till the ride comes to a complete stop, that kind of thing. So I said yes. And then once again, I remember the veil coming over me and this plummet of vibration down, down, down, down, down, lower, lower, lower, lower, lower. Oh my gosh, lower still, lower, more lower still. So low. And then being in the body and sending one message back to the technicians, did it take, like, did the veil take and getting one message back? Yes. And I remember actually feeling a sense of accomplishment because even making it to the physical was quite an accomplishment because of the vibrational distance. And so then I was there for a while, and, and then eventually I said, you know what, I am not doing this. There is no way. Once again, my fear began to rise up, and because I felt like I lost all that I am, I lost all my connectedness, I lost all my knowledge. I felt like everything that I am had disappeared and had been removed, and I rejected it.. And as I began to summon my might once again, the most holy moment in my entire physical journey happened. The Spirit of God came to me. I don't know what words to use, but the great I Am Spirit of all things came to me and expanded me back out. And I felt the entire universe, the physical universe within me, within my body, within the body of my being.. And I felt the churning of our sun, Earth's sun, inside me and the bliss of the sun. And I felt all just incredible amounts of freedom and creativity and power and love and joy. And, and God said to me, this is still what you are, you can never not be this. And that calmed me. I was like, oh, because I had been fighting because I felt like I lost all that I was. You know, and it was like being shown, no, you haven't lost, you haven't, you cannot truly lose all that you are. So I surrendered back into the existence of just being in the womb. And it was like, oh, so relieved. And so then I was there for a while. And then it seemed like a long while. And the next moment I remember is being born. I remember the shock and the sensation of being born, the the temperature, you know, the cold, the light, the touching, you know, all this extreme experience, but I had no idea what was happening. Like, I had no intellectual context at all. I remember looking up at the nurses and just being like, who are these beings taking care of me? Like, what is going on? And just feeling intensely curious. And I don't remember anything much after that until a few years later, you know, as I began to grow up, I remember drawing upon the flowchart memory and like trying to anticipate what was gonna happen in my life just for simple mundane things like, like who's gonna come over tomorrow or, you know, like whatever simple thing that a kid wanted to know, I would just try to pluck it out of the database and, and cheat just cuz I was curious. But that ability diminished quickly as I aged, you know, especially by the age of 4 or 5, definitely by 6 or 7. I, you know, the memory had left me completely and I, I wasn't able to do that anymore. So, you know, that's a quick summary of the experience. I, you know, I know that the experience is, is interesting to people, of course, but I think it's far more important that we focus on what, what we really are, you know, who we really are. Because that, that is the most important message. You know, here we are on Earth, having this incredibly rich, rigorous, oftentimes it seems mercilessly rigorous experience where even death can happen. But who we truly are, in that there is absolutely nothing to fear, we cannot lose what we love, we cannot fail. Like, we need to remind each other of that, even though we're deeply veiled here. And it's intentional. And there's a good reason for it.

Right?

Even though that's true, it, I just feel it's so important to remind each other of what we really are. There's just so much freedom in that.

Stay with us.

We'll be right back.

You know, one of the hardest things about grief? Most of the people in your life just don't get it. They want you to be further along than you are. They get uncomfortable when you bring it up. So you stop bringing it up. And that's why I started writing. My Substack is where I go deeper. Thoughts I don't always get to on the podcast. Essays on consciousness, on continuing bonds, on what it actually means to how to carry a loss and still build a life. The stuff that used to keep me up at night, written out in a way that I hope meets you in the morning. But here's what I didn't expect when I started it: the community that showed up. People who are doing exactly what you're doing— listening, learning, trying to find their footing. Readers who comment, who share their own stories, who remind each other that none of us are as alone in this as we feel. And that's what the Substack has become. A place to go deeper with me and to find your people. It's free to subscribe. Find me at grief2growth.com/substack. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/substack. Or just go to Substack and search for Grief to Growth. I hope to see you there. Well, the reason, Christian, why I wanted you to recount that and the reason why I find it important for my audience and for myself, is that we're here, and it's, it seems more rigorous for some of us than others. We know my audience is largely people who have lost someone, specifically children, because I work with an organization where 25,000 people or so have lost children. And we often ask ourselves, why are we here? What is the point? And when we, and when, when you say to someone who's gone through that, that experience, you planned this for yourself. It takes a lot of convincing. I know, convince people that, yeah, I would plan something like this. And your, your description is so— it makes you really feel that, that separation that we have when we come here.

Yeah.

And that, that sense of abandonment, that sense of fear. And I find it really fascinating that you felt that even in the womb before you even came into the world. That, that vibration was so much lower.

I was in the world. I just hadn't been born yet.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So yeah, we are the human— yeah, so part of the human state. Sorry, go ahead.

Yeah, so I find interesting also, as I've, as I've explored these ideas, and, you know, read your book, and I know you referenced Tom Campbell's book a lot. And I just finished My Big Toe: The Theory of Everything. When you say being in the physical, Is that because this— I mean, everything is physical, and really nothing is physical, right? Where the— it's all mental, but this vibration seems to be different.

Yeah, so the experience of the physical is an experience happening in consciousness. And that's an important thing to focus on it, because we tend to believe that the physical is fundamentally real, that there are these objects, there are these rocks, there are these bodies. And we're all separate from each other. And this is, this is what's most real. It's a very, you know, it's very convincing. And it's, and it is a real experience. But the forms themselves are not fundamentally real. What's fundamentally real is us, the stuff, the stuff of life, spirit itself, the knower of the experience. And so here in the physical, we experience a very, a very physical, tangible experience, but just as physical or tangible, or even more so of an experience, can and can be and is experienced in other reality systems. Like if you go out of body, and depends on, depends on the type of experience. But if you're having like, you know, what I would call local astral experience, I mean, I'm not big on the terms and the labels, but you have an experience like that, it's very, very physical, it's so normal. That you can't even tell the difference. You know, it's like so normal. So, and so in those kinds of experiences, you realize, oh my goodness, the physical, you know, I'm experiencing something super physical here, but it's not the same. And very much in higher systems, they're even more real, like the lucidity and the clarity and the colors and the light and the connectedness that we feel with each other and with the environment it is just so absolutely real, like more, even more real than this life, that there's no doubt to the veracity of that type of physicality.

So I don't know if that speaks to your question, but it does, because, again, I think people, because we become so attached to this place, and we, because we become so—

we can't remember—

with associated with— yeah, exactly, with the body and with the physical. When we think of the other realms, we think of them as kind of ethereal, kind of dreamlike. I know they're more thought responsive. But I've had people even say to me, well, if I have something in that realm, is it real? You know, if someone says I have a house, is it, is it a real house? Because my house is a real house, but those houses aren't real.

I see. So what is real then? Right? Yeah, what's most real? What's the most real thing is the substance of spirit itself. So you could say Source, God, the ocean, the great ocean of all that is. That is the most real and you are a drop in and of that ocean. You are, you are real. Your spirit is real. So like, as a simple metaphor, like, where did your 5-year-old body go? Well, it's, it's gone. There's no more 5-year-old body. It's, it's, it's for all intents and purposes, it's dead, right? It's not here anymore. But you're still here. You, the experiencer, are still here. And there's not actually a huge distinction between a 5-year-old body, a 60-year-old body, or a body that has died. It's actually not— there's actually no— there's a seamless, you know, connection between them all, because you, the experiencer, remain whether or not your body's a certain age, or the constraints of the body have been relinquished. And when the constraints are relinquished, those experiences and those higher systems absolutely can be even more real. It's like, it's like if we walk— watch a black and white television, a small black and white, call it a 10-inch black and white television, that's like the Earth experience. It's a real— it's real, you're watching a real black and white movie. And then you go into an IMAX theater, you know, and you're seeing the whole thing and it's colorful and it's full of sound and it's all my— it's it's, it's 100 times more real and rich. It's kind of like that metaphorically. And then you go back into the black and white movie, and someone says, well, how do you know that was real? There's no doubt. You know, when you, when you have that personal experience, the black and white movie seems like the less real experience. That's still real. It's just a much denser and, you know, different type of experience.

Yeah, and what you're saying lines up with what people who've had near-death experiences tell us, you know, they say, where that experience, that, that was more real than this is. And again, it's kind of hard to describe, I guess, it'd be trying to, like, describe color to someone who's only ever seen in black and white.

Exactly. It is like that very much.

So when you— so you had these memories, when you came into the world, and then they faded, and then they came back to you later in life as you started your meditation practice. Is that correct? Yeah.

So, so I had a very traumatic experience at the age of 22. It was a health-related PTSD-creating experience. And I went through years of counseling for that. And in that experience, I had the opportunity to re-engage this very, very low vibration fear. And so after I had gone through a long healing process of engaging that trauma and healing it, you know, internally, after that, after I had done a lot of that work, I then subsequently took up a meditation practice, originally because of Tom Campbell, actually, his suggestion, go investigate, just go see what your own consciousness is. I didn't expect anything. I just started and continued because at first I just felt some peace. You know, meditating was peaceful, and it felt good. Yeah, but after a few months, I had my first non-physical experience. And it was brief, but it was super eye-opening, like, like, super, like, holy cow, there really is something going on here. And then as I continued in that way, the pre-birth memory all of a sudden was just there. It was just like someone had blown leaves off of the ground, and there was the grass, like the most normal thing in the world. Totally normal. And it's like, even when I first mentioned it years later to a couple people, oh, that's very extraordinary. I was like, I doesn't feel extraordinary at all. It's just once, once your state of awareness is closer to our true nature, to that non-form associated nature, it becomes natural for those larger portions of ourselves to rise up back to us on their own.

Yeah, and I was reading Tom Campbell's book. I read your book, and then I read Tom Campbell's book because I was— you referenced him, and I've been wanting to read it for a long time anyway. And yeah, he says, go out and explore your own consciousness. And that's where I'm kind of stuck. I'm doing meditation. And I'm like, I'm not having these experiences. So with you, they were— you didn't seek to have the out-of-body experience, you were just doing the meditation practice?

Correct. That's right.

Okay.

Yeah, I didn't expect anything. And actually having no expectation, I feel, is very important. Because if you're sitting down thinking, okay, I'm gonna— my intention is to go have an out-of-body experience. Then that's your intention is you're seeking. See, your intention is what the universe is listening to and what your body is listening to. Okay, actual intention. And so having the intention of actually moving towards your own awareness itself, beneath all form and beneath all expectation, beneath all thought, all thought, just to experience what your consciousness itself is. That is a— the word usage is limited here, but you could say like a pure intent. To just go back towards full alertness, full openness, not making anything up, full objectivity, full openness and acceptance of the present moment. And then what's interesting is, not because you're trying, but once you have full openness, full clarity, full acceptance, you are no longer looking at the form, even though you don't, you know, you don't necessarily know that that was your initial intention, you're just no longer associated with thinking, associated with the senses of the body. You're just alert and alive. And when that happens, like I said, these other portions of yourself that are already on the other side of the veil right now, they might, they might bubble up because you've simply put down the objects that you aren't. Like, you aren't your thoughts, you aren't your body.

Right?

Yeah.

So a question that, you know, a lot of people have, and they've asked me this question, and I want to put it to you, is like, Okay, so for these— and I— people have used the word for me, per— with me, perfect. If we're these perfect beings on the other side, then why do we have to come here to improve ourselves?

Yeah, so there's— okay, so first of all, it's not have to, it's choose to. The— there are two simultaneous truths of the nature— of our nature that, that sound contradictory here in duality. Right now we're in duality, so we like to think it's black or white, it's up or down, it's perfect or not perfect. Which which one is it?

Right, exactly.

But that's not a fun— that's not an accurate way to approach it. Because duality itself is non-fundamental. It's a, it's an experience of a certain definition. Our true being is itself, the substance of being itself is already perfect. There is nothing required of it. There's no, there's nothing needed. There is no need to justify or to prove yourself worthy or to be anything. Because you are already intrinsically worthy. You're already intrinsically a part of God, the ocean. It's beautiful. Okay, so but then that perfection chooses to engage, manifest creation, for the purposes of the refinement of being, further refinement. And I know that sounds like already a contradiction in duality, but it's not, you could say, the water of the ocean itself is perfect. But the water decides, chooses to go through a process of refinement in order to expand the depths and the heights of what it is. So to expand all that is, you could say that contrast itself is a tool. You know, like we engage the lowest, most difficult depths of, of darkness and integrate them so as to expand the heights of joy in, in due measure. You see, so it's like the contrast is not greater than we are, we are, we precede the contrast. But we utilize the contrast in order to refine the depths of what we forever are. And a short, relatively short human journey, even though it's very dense and potentially rigorous, a relatively short human journey is worth the price to the being who chooses to come and engage this very rich contrast. Now, now that we're here, you know, like, hey, everyone listening today, we made it, you know, like, we're in the human condition right now. We know how hard it can be. Holy cow, this state of separation, it can be no joke. You know, this is a— this is the— if you want to draw a spectrum of duality here, and again, duality itself is not fundamental. But if you want to draw a line between unity and separation, we've gone all the way out to the most separate type of experience that has yet been created, the deepest, you know, the veil that permits such a deep sense of separation. And that depth of separation is alien, actually, to the spirit. We're not like— our native state is connected, and we know and feel that connection with each other and with all things all the time. To be human and to actually experience being separate from everyone else and alone, that is a very unusual state of being, and it can prompt fear. That in that contrast is the opportunity. Yeah.

Yeah, I like, I love the way you put that. And I think a lot of us can relate to that. Because it's, it's kind of, it's interesting how we come here, we experience this separation, we experience the fear. And I remember being a child and thinking, what kind of a crazy world is this? I think all of us have had that at some point. You know, I was— I grew up in the '60s. I remember, you know, television, the Vietnam War, and, you know, you know, race riots and stuff. And I'm like, this world is— this world is nuts, right? But then we kind of— we fall into it. But then we're always seeking that, that connection again. I think while we're here, we get homesick.

Oh, yes, absolutely. We're always all seeking that connection all the time. You could say that we're all seeking— to put it, you know, bluntly, we're all seeking God all the time. We try to fill that hole with everything we can, you know, we try to plug into substances or relationships or, you know, experiences of some kind or identity or, you know, money or whatever, you know, we were always— the ego is always trying to grasp, oh, fill the hole, fill the hole, you know, but that's, that's because of that state of separation that now we know something dear is missing. And too often, we don't look inward to— not just inward, because inward makes it sound like it's not to something real— to the aliveness that we are, to the nature of consciousness itself. We, we forget to look deeply there. Because in that, that connectedness is real right now. Like we are connected to those we love and to all that is right now. Even though we're this deeply engaged in an experience of separation.

Yeah, well, we're connected on some level that we're typically not aware of while we're here.

Correct. But, but we are actually already there. This is a, this is an important point because it makes it sound like, well, it's, it's not. I mean, because we often think, oh, it's not real. I mean, come on, it's not real. I don't see it. I don't feel it. You know, so it doesn't count. I feel it's important to point towards the realness of it, like, and I know it's darn frustrating until we feel that connection. Sure, I don't— I'm not making light of that. But I do feel it's worthwhile to point out that by investigating your own awareness itself, with let go of all the form associations, all the thoughts, all the pains, all the story, put the whole story down, all the trappings of identity, just put it down and just be fully alert with who you are. That connectedness is already there. And sometimes, like we discussed earlier, you may reach a point where something rises. And I could even describe that as like an inversion point, perhaps, where all of a sudden, the aliveness of your body can like, flip, I don't know, like inside out or something. And you feel the connectedness, It never went anywhere.

Yeah, I think for me, I use analogies. And I think there's a lot of good analogies in Hollywood, like the movie The Matrix, you know, how that, that reality, when you're in it, it feels real, but it's not the ultimate reality, you know, Avatar, they are in the lab. There's a movie called Total Recall, you know, where you have memories of planets. So those are, those are things that kind of work for me. It's like, we're experiencing this, but we're not really here because it's not really ultimately real.

That's true. Yeah, it's like metaphorically, like we've fallen asleep in heaven to have the dream of Earth. And that is like The Matrix. You know, I like in The Matrix when Neo is first in the white room with the couch, you know, and he's feeling the couch and he says, this isn't real. Yeah, well, that's how it is with, you know, the objects in our world. This isn't real. Oh, it's a real experience. You are really having the experience you're having right now. It's not that the experience isn't real. But truly, we do transcend the experience. We've just come very deep into the matrix. And there really is a higher realm, for sure.

So when you— there's a couple other things that people see as black or white, you know, another one is predestination versus free will. So people talk about soul plans, and you talked about being able to see your life. But there seems to be an element of free will as well. So how do those two interplay with each other?

Yeah. Okay, so the, the flowchart that I reviewed was a probability tree, not a predestined script. And the thing that determined which branch of the probability tree actualized was free will. My choice-making and the choice-making of everybody else. It's just that the system, as it put in Tom Campbell's terms, the system has all the data. So it knows really well, it knows you really well, it knows me really well, it knows all the billions of players super well, and it is running the simulation. So it's very good at predicting likely outcome, but novelty still happens because free will is still running. We all are making choices every day, and sometimes we make choices that may have been less likely in the past, but now they're being actualized, and that may affect someone else in a way that was unanticipated. So you could say that the system is very good at predicting outcome, but free will absolutely always, always occurs. It's just free will within the context. Like when I say free will, I don't mean the freedom to make any choice anywhere. Like I can't decide to go to Jupiter right now. I mean free will within the constraints of the context. You are free to choose whatever you can identify That's a big part of it, because a lot of us have a lot of choices we can't consciously identify. You're free to choose anything you can identify and anything that the rule set— another Tom Campbell turn— of the physical reality permits.

Yeah, and, and there's even, you know, when we think about this, even from our human perspective, we know each other, kind of, right? And I know certain things that my wife is more likely to do and less likely to do, just from having known her for a few years, not even being able to be inside of her head.

So, right, exactly.

You can imagine that if you did have all the data, you could make some really, really good guesses. And even within myself, I mean, there are certain things that I am free to do technically, but I would never do.

Yes.

No, there's no—

exactly.

Yeah. Yeah.

And there's one other element to that which is worth mentioning, and that is that there are, uh, this is hard to describe, there are energetic eras of the play that transpire. So you could say themes for the whole play. Hmm. So the whole play is going through a theme, through a maturity process, and all the players actually know that theme. And so because that's the theme of the act, that plays a significant part also in what's going to happen, what is likely to happen or less likely to happen. So like right now, you know, we're in a period of the play you could call the awakening, that is that we're trying to process all sorts of old, very dense, fear-based garbage in the collective consciousness and to grow and to awaken. And that process is happening. And we're trying to do a lot in a relatively short amount of time. And from that side, pre-birth, I just, I just knew like, okay, you know, this is just the period that this is. It's very exciting, like, super exciting to be on Earth during this time, and a profound honor to have the opportunity to be on Earth at this time. But anyway, I'm just saying that that act of the play is, is known to, and that has like an energetic, it like it affects the temperature of the water, you could say something like that.

Yeah. So that's a, that's a really good point. Because I do feel like, and I guess lots of generations have said this in the past, but you know, Tom Campbell talks about in his book about how, you know, we invented one way to kill off the whole planet. Now we've invented several ways. So we are at a point where we have to grow up really quickly. Do you think that, that the souls are here now said, hey, yeah, I'll go in and I'll play my part in this really important time?

Yes, everyone who's here has chosen to come. I mean, I mean, I won't speak for anybody else. But from what I experienced, I feel very confident that yes, we all choose. Because the soul itself is sovereign, right? It's a part of the ocean. There is no greater power than, than God, of which we are a part. You could say you're like a fragment of God. So the only way that you can be veiled and restricted is to self-surrender. There's no other way. So anyway, so I'm just pointing that out because everyone who participates has had to self-surrender at some point in order to engage this, this point in the context. Okay, so but then more specifically to your question, speaking to the era of the play, yes, I do think many individuals have chosen to come now in order to help. I think there are a lot of beings who are more loving or sensitive or wise or caring in certain ways,. And just their being, just them being here alters the temperature of the water, you know, because it's, you think of the human, human race is like a collective consciousness, like a pond within the ocean. That pond is comprised of only so many people, beings, and those beings are each contributing something vibrationally to the temperature of the water in the pond. So I do feel that higher vibrational beings, more evolved beings do choose to come to help. To assist bring that temperature up, because if the temperature raises, it kind of prompts everybody to face their own crap. You know, because the temperature is getting higher now. So now it's like, okay, now you're less resonant with the super low vibration, older stuff, and it has to come up to the surface to be faced and processed. And we've seen a lot of that in our world in the last, you know, couple decades, probably.

Yeah, yeah, that's a great point. I also want to ask you about you know, again, people have near-death experiences, and you talk about a lot too, how we are infinitely loved beyond what we can possibly understand. But I know some, some people have gone and said, well, God is kind of like impersonal. God's just a force. So what's, what's this, this thing about love? And where does that come from?

Oh, it's, it's both. It's, it's absolutely personal. Very specific to you. And also the very substance of reality itself, in which you could call impersonal. You could say that this, the stuff of spirit that is beyond description is, is love. It's synonymous with love. It's, it's our true nature to that love, that freedom, that joy is the substance of being. It's the, it's the very what and why of all things. There is no greater, like, it's just one, you know, we use one word. When I say love, I don't just mean just the emotion that we associate with love, though that is a profound portion of it. I mean, something that's beyond all description, a, an adoration and a value and a celebration of each life, each moment, each each one of us, every molecule of our body and every portion of our being. It's a celebration that is incredibly wise and totally unconditional. Like, there is nothing you could do, nothing you could do that would separate you from that, that love, or make it, you know, less. That's not how it works. So I don't know what else I can say about it. It's like that, that is the nature. So, so at least I can reiterate, yes, if we want to put it in, in colloquial religious terms, God loves you, specifically you. Yeah, like, you can call it something else. I mean, I'm not sensitive to the terminology.

I think it's really interesting. I love the way you explain it. Because we do think of love as conditional for the most part. I mean, we, I think the closest thing we have to unconditional love would be our children.

Yes.

I think once you have a child, and you for me anyway, that's like, that's when I first understood unconditional love. It's like, I will love this being no matter what. But to say it's unconditional, and God loves everybody, and it also loves you uniquely and specifically, I think that's what people have trouble wrapping their heads around.

Oh, it's very much both. And it's you specifically is a really, really key part of it. Each one of us is like, oh, I wish I could communicate this. Like an absolutely irreplaceable fragment of all that is precious beyond all, all the riches of the world. Irreplaceable. Every one of us. I just, I don't know how to possibly articulate that. But when we reach those states, we know it and we feel it. And it's, it's breathtaking. You know, it's, it's a type of love that on earth, we very rarely get real glimmers of it. It's, it's so many magnitudes beyond what we commonly experience on Earth, that it seems so foreign to us. But see, but that's the, but that's the nature of this experience, though, you know, we've come into a place where we are veiled from it, and we feel so separate, and it makes us feel so alone. And it's like being in the cold. Like, I like the metaphor of being up on Mount Everest, you know, or climbing a big tall mountain. And we get here and we're like, oh my gosh, it's cold. There's no air up here. I can't breathe. Yes, that's, that's right. That's, that's how Mount Everest is. But the question isn't whether or not it's cold. The question is, what do you do with it now? How do you respond? How do you meet Mount Everest? What meaning do you put on Mount Everest? How do you allow your love that came with you and is you How do you allow it to shine on Mount Everest? How do you meet the cold? You know?

Yeah, yes. So that's well put. And, you know, but it's interesting. We all ask this question, why am I here? And some people say we come to learn. And then again, that question, well, if I know everything, then what am I here to learn? Some people say we come here for the experience. I was talking with a guy once, and he said we— he threw out all those beyond that. We had come here to have that feeling of abandonment. To know what that feels like, to know what it feels like to be separated. That's actually part of the plan.

Yes, that's true. So the learning we do is not experience, is not intellectual, it's experience, it's experiential learning. So it's, it's a learning of the Being with a capital B, by being something with a lowercase b. So, so the only way to actually know you know, some experience is to actually be the person who experiences it. Like, you have to actually be you all the way, all the way, man, you got to go all the way in. Yeah, want to really know separation, then you really need to know separation. There's no— and spirit's very good at that. Sorry.

Yeah, no, that's great. No, I think that's where we get confused, because we think of intellectual knowledge. And people will say things like, well, God is omniscient. And if we're omniscient beings, then, then what is there to learn? But what I've come to realize, as you said, is you can only know what it's like to be something if you're that. You can only know what it's like to be cold if you're cold. You can only know what it's like to be hungry if you're hungry.

Yeah, exactly. So just a very simple example. So like, when I was a kid, I went to church camp, and I remember that there was a trust fall exercise, and I had a lot of fear. I didn't want to let go and fall into the arms of a bunch of strangers. So the act of standing up on that log and being prepared to fall backwards into the arms of the strangers, is that a moment of intellectual learning? No, it's a moment of, of quality of intent. That's a Tom Campbell term. In other words, I had to choose to overcome my fear and to let go. Now, now, interestingly, in this short story, this is just a personal part of this story. I fell backwards and they dropped me after I finally got up the nerve and the counselor looked mortified that they had not, you know, proven that trust, that they could be trusted in that moment. I remember staring up with the wind knocked out of me, like hurting my whole body and going like, oh my God. But you know what, I survived. And, you know, I, and it's just like, how else can the being have that experience? It sounds like a simple experience. I won't forget that experience. You know, that experience is simple. But how else can you know what it's like to not be caught? How else can you know what it's like to have to build up the courage and fall backwards? Or all the things that we do in life? You know, how do you respond when someone's driving on the road and they flick you off? Okay, so that triggers something. And how do you respond? How else can you know who you see? Because when we have a life review, our constraints are fully recognized. It's all seen, all the limitations, all the pain we've ever known. It's all seen. It's all understood. It's totally understood, like 100%, 1000% understood. But then who are you in that context? And then you learn about yourself, you see, because then you see, oh, I really am the person who responded in anger when someone gave me anger. Huh? Why? You see, and then we can learn and grow from that. Where else can you do that except in a, in a circumstance in which you don't know you're connected to that person, that they're your loving brother or sister, and they're, they're flicking you off, you know, like, anyway, it's a simple, it's a silly example, but no, it's, it's, it's actually a great example because again, when we, when people first encounter these concepts, you know, there's, there's that pushback, like, well, the other thing is this is too much.

If I were setting up this lab, children wouldn't get cancer.

Yes.

No one would have chronic illnesses. I mean, why would I make it, why would I make it so hard?

Yes. No, absolutely. I don't make light of that. So I just wanna make a couple comments. First of all, when we are pre-life, at least in my case, I could say pre-life, trying to decide what, how, what to engage. We know that the more contrast, the greater the opportunity. So it's often us who say, give me it all. I want to do it all. I want to have this. I want to do the hard thing here. I want to stack up, make the sandwich nice and thick, you know. And then the guides are often the ones that say, ah, that's more than you can bite off. You can't chew that much sandwich. You know, that's too much. That won't be helpful. Like there's a, there's an optimal amount of sandwich here. Yeah, I'm being a little silly, but but it's us who say, I want to do it all, you know, sometimes, not always, but many times, it's our desire to expand in that due measure that, that, you know, allows us to, to ask for that. Okay, the other thing I want to point out, though, is that, okay, for all the extremity, and I'm not trying to make light of or justify, I am not justifying all the horrors that occur, that all the ways we traumatize each other every day. But the depth of spirit is greater, deeper than the most deep contrast that can possibly arise on earth. Like, who we are is more powerful, more full of life than anything that could possibly occur. Like, I mean, and I know to the human ego that rejects the experience and that, and that raises its mighty righteous fist, that's hard. It's a very hard pill to swallow. But I'm just pointing out that it's our own unevolveness, that our own unevolveness is why we experience so much fear. And it's the fear that hurts. It's our rejection that hurts. It's the negative meaning that we put on all the pain we've, we've been served that hurts. Once we drop all that rejection and fully feel even the deepest self-sorrow and pain, if we fully, fully feel that, we can process it and integrate it in, and it vanishes because consciousness is deeper than it all. It's our rejection that hurts.

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, and we've seen that in people that have gone through just things that some of us can't even imagine. I've interviewed several of them on my program, and you see them overcome those things. So what I hear you saying is the human spirit is mightier than all the, all the crap that we can even imagine to place in this, in this earth.

Yeah. And it doesn't even need to be qualified as a human spirit. Your spirit, you are deeper than all the, than all the crap. And then one third comment that I'll make is that sometimes there are outcomes that happen due to tragedy on earth that we couldn't have foreseen that might be valuable in some way. So sometimes there is meaning that is invisible to us. And that's important to recognize as well, because the human ego can't, can't see that. Like, what comes to mind is when I was around 25 or 26, I think it was 26, I forget the exact year. But so my father had a second family, and he and his wife had, you know, some children together. And they had a son named Jack, my brother, my half brother, and he ended up passing away from brain cancer. So watching a 3-year-old go through the dying process and die is just about one of the worst things that, that can be experienced. I mean, it's, it's horrifying. Okay, so I don't know what Jack signed up for pre-life. But I do have a strong intuitive sense that that journey, that, that, that was a journey that he agreed to undertake for some reason, some benefit to someone around him. I won't go into detail on it. That, that to their human ego, I'm sure is, oh, that's a big no, like, there's no way that that could have had any value. But to the immortal spirit that cannot truly be harmed, this, this short walk, like the name of my book is A Walk in the Physical, the short walk outside into the physical world. It's an opportunity, it's a journey. You know, it's a chance to experience even incredible rigors that otherwise we could not, and to know ourselves in ways that we could not have known ourselves ourselves before. It's very important that we remember that. And then finally, this is so, so key, that love that we develop with each other, even in a relatively short relationship, that love remains. Like, we are love. So we can't lose those that physically die that we're close to. We cannot lose them. That love is a powerful living bridge right now. Yeah, the body may pass. It's like taking off a shirt. Like, you take off a shirt and you throw it on the floor, and it's not really a big deal. You're still you, that person is still them. It's just now we can't physically see them. So, so we mourn, you know, we mourn the physical sensation, the touch, we mourn that interaction. But the living connection remains, it can't possibly die. I've heard it described by some, like, on the other side, it's like they hear our loving thoughts, like a chime on the wind, I think is something that Silverbirch wrote. That's a guide that I love, like a chime on the wind that they can follow back to us. Like, I love that. And that connection is, is always there. I just think it's really important to, to lift up because we— because on Earth, change is so darn final. It's like, right, it's so mercilessly final. But the spirit is, is more than that. And that connection can't actually be lost.

I'm glad you brought that up. I I have friends who have lost children to cancer. I— and someone I met not too long ago, her son was born with a congenital birth thing that he just passed a couple days ago at the age of 14 and was never able to ever, ever able to speak or walk. But that family, you know, just getting to know them a little bit, I've gotten to know them, that child brought so much joy to their lives and change their lives so much, you know, them and like you talked about the ripple effect of you just coming into the womb. Imagine a child coming in and spending 3 or 4 or 15 years here. Yes, ripples that they send out. It's just so we look at the pain, but it seems like it's all redeemed at some level.

Oh, yes, there's, there is no pain that spirit doesn't ultimately use for the better. You know, the system is very efficient. And love is very wise. And so I'm not making light of the finality of those losses. I know I'm not making light of that. It's just that the love that we are is deeper. And I really think that's important to remember in the midst of all this. Yeah, we've all lost, you know, everyone here is human, man. We all go through the wringer and some more than others, but the— it's not just— and it's not one other thing. It's not just how we affect each other physically in those 3 years or 5 years or 14 years or 1 week in the womb. There is an energetic reality that is happening. Our mere presence on the earth, the— even the very thoughts that we issue, even the very love that we, that we express and give birth through, through each other, that's valuable. It has a reality to it in higher systems that can be seen and felt. It's like, it's so creative and so powerful. So there can be incredible bounty that comes from life that may be short in a physical sense, that we cannot physically see, that will last far past the end of this play.

You just touched on something I want to talk about a little bit because Tom Campbell talks about this a little bit. I wanted to get your thoughts on the interaction between the next realm or the higher level— I don't like the term higher, but that next realm in our realm, how much interaction is there? You know, either way, both ways?

Yeah, there's a lot of interaction. It's just, it's just that our reality is very dense, very dense. So it's very slow by comparison to change. And our thoughts, even our very thoughts are very crude and clunky and slow by comparison to the speed of thought and interaction that occurs in higher systems. But anyway, they do interact all the time. You could say that the physical, the physical is subsequent to the non-physical. Like, it's maybe like saying on a computer server, it's a bad metaphor. But like, you know, what's the relationship between the game world and the game server? Well, there can't be a world, can't be a game world without, without the computer that's running it. And Tom Campbell's metaphor, he actually has an acronym for that computer, he calls it TBC, the big computer, right? And TBC is a portion in consciousness that is giving rise to this simulation. I think that's an okay way to put it. And so when I say higher, I don't mean higher as in better, right? I mean higher only as in vibrational. You can feel the difference, you know, when you engage those higher preceding, more fundamental systems, and they do interact all the time.

And this goes back to— I want to just go back to the free will versus predetermination thing. I just rewatched the movie because Tom Campbell's book reminded me of it, The Adjustment Bureau. I don't know if you remember that movie.

I like that movie.

Yeah, because I thought, because I'm like, I'm trying, I'm trying to reconcile these things, right? Some people say it's all predetermined. Some people say it's free will. And there, there seems to be an overarching plan. And then there's, there's these beings that are like, let's get back on track.

On track. Yes. But you know what's awesome about that movie is in the last scene, when they're up— I don't mean to spoil this. Spoiler, I'm about to spoil the ending of the movie for anybody who hasn't seen this movie yet. At the end of the movie, when they're up on the rooftop, and they have an interaction with God, basically, God changes the entire plan of the universe for their love.

Yeah.

And then the Adjustment Bureau no longer has anything to follow through on. So I like that. I like, I like that ending. Because that is very helpful to help understand the depth of the unconditional love that exists for us. And it is our ability to make choices here. That's one of the things that makes this such a rich and powerful opportunity is, is precisely in that we have free will to make choices that may not be according to plan.

Yeah, and I think it's really important. Again, for people coming out of a background where it's like, okay, God put me here, it's God's plan. From what I'm understanding, it's more of an interactive thing. It's like we agree and we work out the plan together with ourselves, our teams, our guides, whoever.

Yes, I like to say metaphorically, it's like we've gone in the backyard and we're playing in the cold mud. You know, and God is still there in the kitchen watching over. It's not really a big deal that we're out playing in the mud. We're the ones who decided to come out and play in the mud. But with a lot of help and with a lot of guidance. You know, this is a very efficient process that we're engaged in. And it's a process that very much transcends the limitations of one lifetime, let alone one year, one day. I mean, we are immortal beings. So the opportunity to engage 100-year lifetime or less, to really develop and grow and learn in some way. That is a profound gift, actually. And yeah, so we are, we are helped from the non-physical. In fact, I think that there are more non-physical beings involved in our physical simulation than there are even physical players in the game, helping us all the time, providing nudges and providing guidance in whatever small way they can, while also maintaining the veracity of the simulation. That's important.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I want to talk because there's something that you had said in your book, and to let people know your book, it's great. It's like, it's, it's a series of very short, very to-the-point essays that, that, that tie together and you reference each reference. So it's different from any book I've ever, I've ever read. But one of the things you talked about, you say, our joy, our destination is our joy. So explain what you mean by that.

So joy is our true nature. It is the substance of what we are. And it's our, it's our birthright. It's what is, it's our heart, you could say that when we are our true selves, there is incredible amounts of joy. Joy is like, it's synonymous with love. And it's synonymous with the natural trait of what we are. I don't know how else to describe it. I don't know if trait is the right word. It's synonymous with the nature of being. So no matter how far we venture into limitation, no matter how deep we get into the characters, we can't help but be our true nature. So one way or another, we will end up back in total joy and total freedom and total bliss and total unconditional love. That is the truth. There's— you may go for a lifetime, you may go, you may go within a lifetime on other journeys, you may go and have side journeys, whatever. No matter how deep your, your venture, it is always natural to return home to who you really are, to take off the backpack and put it down, come back from the forest and say, wow, I just had a very long, crazy journey, put down the backpack, you return home. And, and you know, oh, joy is what I am. Maybe next time I'll go climb a mountain, but it's up to you. You don't have to go climb a mountain. You can decide what you want to do. You're free.

Yeah, I, I, I really wanted to make sure we got that, that point across. I think I said it wrong. It's like joy, your, uh, your destination is joy, that, that we are all, cuz you know, there are, there are some people that believe that, you know, we can become eternally lost. We can become, you know, we can go too far away, you know, we can lose the light. So how would you respond to that?

Yeah, so there are hellish experiences that happen both on Earth and in thought-responsive reality systems. What I mean is when we have fear is hell, you could say that. So when we have fear, that is when we have rejection, when we have all the, all the, the, see, fear gives rise to many, all the many patterns of the ego, you know, anger, jealousy, all, you know, all the things that we try to grab on to. When we associate deeply with that, and it all boils down to fear. So when we have fear that we have not yet processed, it can be a hellish experience, whether on Earth, or whether we find ourselves in a thought-responsive reality that is reacting to our fear and that we're giving rise to. So we could potentially create a non-fundamentally real hellish experience without even being aware of it. However, importantly, all experiences of form, all of them are non-fundamental. They're transitory, they're temporary. All form is temporary. The 5-year-old body that was you is gone, is temporary. This experience will pass, and even a subsequent experience of potentially great fear, whether in this or another reality system, it too will pass because they are all manifestations of our journey into contrast, whether it be in this physical reality or another, they're all sojourns. And we always return from those sojourns. And like I said, use that contrast for the expansion of what is real, and what is lasting and what is true. It is not possible to be eternally separated from the light or something. No, no, no, the experience of separation, we're already at the extreme point right now, like, this is it, we're here, And then, but see, now that we're here, we have a lot of fear, because this is a crazy alien state. So now we spin all sorts of terrifying stories. We've even created beliefs like you can be eternally damned and burn in hell forever. You know, we come because we're fearful. So we come up with that stuff. We enshrine it in our religions, we use it to maybe, I mean, I'm not trying to generalize, it's been enshrined in the past in certain religious traditions. And then that belief might be used to cause more fear to be used in control, whatever, that's all fear. That whole fear orgy is not fundamental to what we are. It's all a journey. It's all a sojourn. And no matter what, one way or another, we will end up back to the wholeness and the truth, the true love and the joy and the freedom of what we really are. We're actually there right now. It's just that we're so far vibrationally deep in association with this limitation that we don't feel it. That's a key distinction, because I think a lot of people think, oh, I'm trapped in the physical. I'm trapped in this world. I'm not really there. I'm trapped. I'm trapped. I'm trapped. I'm trapped. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. It's precisely the association with those negative interpretations, that fear, that is the separator. That's the vibrational separator. We can let that go all the way and find we never left. You never left freedom and the joy of your being. So you'll often hear experiences where people may find themselves in like a hellish environment until they cry out, or until they focus upward, as you say. And then all of a sudden, there is a great connection, maybe a being will come or they'll, or they'll see the light or something, or whatever. I'm not going to try to, you know, judge or label. I'm just saying that, that, that wholeness and that love and that peace and that joy, that is the true nature that was always there. So as soon as we change our focus, back to it. Of course, there is a response. Our focus, always our focus and our intention always has an effect. I think that's a key point. I know I've gone on for a long time and covered a lot of different topics. But I just want to highlight this one last thing, that in our intention is our primary power. What we're intending, the quality of our intention is the primary question at hand. Are we making a choice? So intention is first and it it reflects through choice making. Are we making a choice that's based in love or based in fear? That's always the primary. I mean, of course, there are thousands of facets to that choice. I'm not sure. I'm not saying it's a simple choice. But at the root of it, it's are you making— are you meeting this moment? Whatever's happening, whether it be this reality or another system, how are you meeting this moment with love or fear? And then if you choose love, you and all the things that love means, you will naturally vibrationally, instantly move closer to who you already really are. It's kind of like if you go and look at a beautiful sunset. And for a minute, you just drop all your crap. And you just, you just enjoy the beauty of the sunset. Maybe you remember some love that you know,, and you feel for just that glimmer of a moment, you feel, ah, you feel that connectedness. You never went anywhere. It's just that you changed your focus. You changed your allowing to recognize the beauty that is being expressed to you. And, and it allow— it vibrationally immediately returns you closer, a step closer to that connectedness that you never lost.

Awesome. Awesome. I think that's a great way to, to end our conversation today, Christian. I want to, Thank you so much for being here. And for what you do. I know you're very busy. And I know this is, you know, you've got a lot of children and everything. You're very free with your books. So tell people where they can find out about your book, where they can get it.

Yeah, sure. So at the beginning, you said that the book can be downloaded, can't actually be downloaded for free, but it is available to be read for free online. If you just go to my website at walkinthephysical.com, there's a book page, the third link down, is a link to Google Books where the whole book is available for free. Just click like read for free or something. I forget the button, but it's all there. It's also available on Amazon in print or Kindle version, and the audiobook is also available on Audible. Those are all for purchase. But I did record the audiobook, I guess, a year before last December. So yeah, so all those, all those forms are out there. I think it's, it's not about the money. I just want people to be reminded of who we really are. No, like, I just, if you feel intuitively that it can help, please, you know, feel free to read the book. And if not, that's totally fine too. If you'd like to email me, I try to make myself available. I've got a lot of emails lately. So I apologize if I can't respond. But the information for all that is on my website, awalkinthephysical.com. I also have a bunch of other talks that I've shared there as well. The last thing I'll say is I just want to say to everybody who's listening today, please be reminded you are a loving, powerful, immortal, multidimensional being. You really are. And there is absolutely nothing to fear in this life. Whatever you're dealing with, whatever the hardship in your life is right now, please be reminded of who you really are and know that you, you are deep and powerful and loved. You're so loved that there is nothing to truly fear. I just, I just feel like we need— that's the most important message we can share with each other.

100%. I, again, I am so honored that you were here today. Thank you for what you do. I do want to— I know for you it's not about the money. It's, it's about the message for me. And I've read a few books that have really, really, like, changed my way of thinking. Yours is one of them, listening to the interviews with you. So I want to thank you for what you do.

Thank you so much, Brian. I appreciate it. I appreciate you having me on. Thank you.

All right. Enjoy your evening. Hi there, I'm really excited to tell you about my latest ebook. It's 4 lessons that you can learn from the near-death experience without going through all the trouble of dying to learn them. I've been studying NDEs for several years now, I am completely convinced that not only are they 100% real, but that there's some very universal wisdom that we can get from the near-death experience. And I've distilled that down in this book into 4 short lessons. And I've also given you all the reasons why I believe that NDEs are absolutely real. So go to www.grieftogrowth.com/NDElessons to pick it up for free. www.grief-the-number-2-growth.com/NDElessons. I hope you enjoy it.