Healing Grief & Generational Trauma Through Internal Family Systems | Tamala Floyd- EP 421

You know you need something, you're just not sure what. You've been listening, you're doing the work, but there's still this feeling that you're circling the same place, like you're waiting for the thing that finally moves you. Now maybe you've thought about working with me one-on-one. Maybe something's held you back, the timing, the money, or you're just not sure you're ready yet. I get that. And I want you to know there's still a place for you. I built a resource for exactly this moment, guided meditations for when the waves hit and you just need to breathe. Workbooks to help you get out of your head and onto the page, ebooks on what near-death experiences tell us about the people we've lost, and whether they're really gone, a full course for widows and widowers who are ready to find their way back to living, and a full course for the evidence of the afterlife. And all of it is available for pay what you want. Nobody gets turned away because of money. I think these resources are valuable, but I don't want to hold them back because you don't have the money to pay for them. You don't have to wait until you're ready for coaching. The next step might be a lot smaller than you think. To find out, go to grief2growth.com/store. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/store. And check out the resources I've made for you. Close your eyes and imagine. What are the things in life that cause us the greatest pain? The things that bring us grief are challenges, challenges designed to help us grow, to ultimately become what we were always meant to be. We feel like we've been buried. But what if, like a seed, we've been planted? And having been planted, we grow to become a mighty tree. Now, open your eyes. Open your eyes to this way of viewing life. Come with me as we explore your true, infinite, eternal nature. This is Grief to Growth. And I am your host, Brian D Smith. Everyone, welcome to Grief to Growth. And I'm your host, Brian D Smith. And whether you're tuning in for the first time, you've been walking this journey with me for a while, I'm really glad you're here today. This podcast is all about navigating life's toughest moments, understanding who we are, where we come from, and where we're going and why we're here. Today we have a really insightful guest. Her name is— or her— she spent over 25 years guiding people through deep emotional healing. Her name is Tamela Floyd. She's a psychotherapist, an author, a consultant, and an internal, internal family systems therapy lead trainer. She specializes in helping women heal trauma, navigate relationships, and uncover the emotional wounds that might be holding them back. She's also a retreat facilitator, has taught at universities, bringing her expertise in human services and social work to the next generation. She's the author of Listening When Parts Speak: A Practical Guide to Healing with Internal Family Systems Therapy and Ancestor Wisdom. And in this book, she explores how we can heal both personal and generational trauma by turning into the different parts of ourselves. We're going to dive into what that means, especially in the context of grief. So have you ever wondered how different parts of yourself show up in grief? How can we tap into ancestral wisdom to heal wounds that go beyond just our lifetime? Can our ancestors actually help us in our grief journey? Tamal has some powerful insights on how internal family systems therapy can help provide a path to healing, both for us and for those who came before us. So this conversation is one you won't want to miss. And remember, if you want to keep the conversation going afterwards, come visit me at grieftogrowth.com/community or on Substack at grieftogrowth.substack.com. And with that, I'd like to welcome Tamela Floyd.

Thank you so much for that introduction, Brian. Glad to be here with you.

Yeah, I'm really glad to have you here. You're joining us from sunny Costa Rica today. I'm sitting here in chilly Ohio, so I'm a little bit jealous. But I guess you, you travel the world now.

I do, and I'm enjoying it. Yes. Costa Rica this time around.

Yeah. So I want to— I always ask people, when you get into work like this, dealing with grief and dealing with trauma, most of us don't choose this work. We're kind of called to it. I know that's the case for me and a lot of people I've spoken with. Is that something— is that true with you?

I think both are true, that I was called to it when I think about the way that I showed up in the world as a young person and wanting to help others and wanting to include those kids in the neighborhood that weren't included. So I already had this kind of caregiving, nurturing, helpful nature. And then when I went to school thinking I wanted to go to school for one thing, which was law initially, and took some courses and had to take an introduction to psychology course as a requirement, and that changed everything.

Oh, really? Okay. So you went into psychology initially?

And, well, so taking that psychology class made me change my major to psychology from pre-law, um, and then I went on and got a master's in social work.

Right. I was gonna say, I knew that you were in social work. Um, so tell me about the work that you do now. What's, um, internal family systems?

Yes. So Internal Family Systems is a model that helps us look at the human psyche not as one whole mind, but being comprised of multiples or subpersonalities. In IFS, we refer to these subpersonalities as parts.

Okay. Yeah.

Yeah.

So tell me about what are the various parts and how do we, how do we work with them?

Yeah. So we may have parts that are people-pleasing parts. We might have a critic. We might have parts that cause us to be anxious, parts that feel that they know the right way to do things, ultra-responsible parts. So basically, we all are born with the parts that we have. But where they become an issue is when our parts get burdened. And our burdens usually happen because of trauma. So our parts get burdened and they take on responsibilities or the burdens that never belong to them, but they come out of— they're born out of our traumatic experiences.

Okay. And how do we, how do we experience that as, as people? How do we experience our parts?

Yeah. So for instance, like, I have a part that is absolutely a people pleaser. Certainly comes out of my trauma of feeling like the way that I would receive love was to make other people happy. You know, like, if I didn't rock the boat, I went around, went along, did the things my parents wanted me to do, One, I received— the way this part saw it is that I received approval and love from my parents. But in exchange, I needed to be what they wanted me to be. And so then that then would show up in my relationships, the way I interacted with friends, my intimate relationships. And this part, when our parts are burdened, they're doing what they're doing impulsively. Like, I wasn't choosing to be a people pleaser. It was like this part felt like it needed to people please in order for me to feel lovable. So it didn't want me to feel like I'm not unlovable. So it's like, okay, if people approve of you, then you're going to get their love and attention.

Yeah, I think we can all relate to that. You know, we have these— we realize that maybe this is not my, my true self, I guess, that's doing this thing or that thing. And I know that it sounds similar to what we talk about in positive intelligence. We call those parts the saboteurs. I think it's just different language.

Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

So as we identify these parts and we start to relate to them, what can we do to start to heal?

Right. So we have our parts. The other piece of our system is what in IFS we refer to as the self. So the self is who we are when we're not blended with our parts. It is that— it is the seat of our consciousness. It is who we are when all of our parts step back. It is the natural healer within our system. So So what we're wanting to do is to have these parts that have taken on these extreme roles come into relationship with the self, because the self can listen to them and heal them and help them release those behaviors and be what they were intended to be in our system, or what they want to be in our system. Now they can lay down these extreme roles and take on some healthier jobs within our system.

Okay, so it's not a matter of getting rid of the parts or trying to eliminate them. It's more of a matter of how to work with them. Would that be right?

Oh, I love that. Absolutely. Yes. We do not want to get rid of our parts because what we want to get rid of is the burden that the part is carrying. And so my people pleaser part at one time was free-loving, playful. And so we want to get back to that. We want— so if she can release this need to people please, then she can be in her natural role of joyful and playful and interactive and creative. Intuitive. You know, these are some of the things that I learned about this part once she released that burden of needing to people-please.

Yeah. So it sounds like maybe the parts take on an oversized role due to trauma. Would that be a good way of putting it?

Yeah, absolutely. And the role that they're taking on, they're doing so to protect our vulnerable parts. So the people pleaser that I was referring to, she's a protector. That's what we call them in IFS. So she's people-pleasing so that I don't have to feel again that original trauma of not being good enough. So that's what she's ultimately protecting me from, that feeling of not being good enough. So if I please enough, I'll never feel like I'm less than.

Yeah, I think that's really an important distinction because I know a lot of times in spiritual circles we start talking about the ego and we will make the ego like an enemy. And I think I see the ego as kind of like the, the maybe the amalgamation of the parts. And people say, well, I want to get rid of my ego, or, you know, the ego is— but the ego is there to protect us. It's not— it doesn't have bad intentions. Just like the parts, they're not there to— they're not there to harm us or hurt us. They're there to protect us from going through that trauma again.

Absolutely. And I love that you just said the ego doesn't have bad intentions, and nor does the parts. That's one of the assumptions of IFS, is that all of our parts have good intentions when we understand how they came to take on these burdens and these roles. You know, like the people pleaser. Her good intention is that I don't want you to feel hurt and feel worthless and unlovable. So if I people please, you can never feel that way because everybody's going to be happy with you, right? But that's tiring, right? You know, people please and live up to other people's expectations all the time is a great way to burn out.

Stay with us.

We'll be right back.

You know, one of the hardest things about grief Most of the people in your life just don't get it. They want you to be further along than you are. They get uncomfortable when you bring it up, so you stop bringing it up. And that's why I started writing. My Substack is where I go deeper. Thoughts I don't always get to on the podcast. Essays on consciousness, on continuing bonds, on what it actually means to carry a loss and still build a life. The stuff that used to keep me up at night, written out in a way that I hope meets you in the morning. But here's what I didn't expect when I started it: the community that showed up. People who are doing exactly what you're doing— listening, learning, trying to find their footing. Readers who comment, who share their own stories, who remind each other that none of us are as alone in this as we feel. And that's what the Substack has become— a place to go deeper with me and to find your people. It's free to subscribe. Find me at grief to growth .com/substack. That's grief2growth.com/substack. Or just go to Substack and search for Grief to Growth. I hope to see you there. Yeah, exactly. Well, and it's interesting because as I did the work with Positive Intelligence, and I started looking at people and looking at my own saboteurs and stuff, you can see that, you know, people pleaser, again, we want to be kind to people. We want to be nice people, you know. It's just a matter of the degree. How far do we— how far do we do that? And when we start harming ourselves in order to please other people, that's when it becomes a problem.

Absolutely. Yes. And when it's on automatic pilot, like there's no choice in the people pleasing, right? It's just doing it. So that's the other, uh, cost to us, is when it's on automatic.

Okay. So does IFS— does it help people to start to make that, that separation, to start to recognize when I'm going Oh, I'm going into people pleaser mode or I'm going into one of the other modes.

Yes, it does. And the way that it does that is what we say in IFS is we want to help our clients unblend from these parts that are burdened. So if I am the people pleaser, the people pleaser is in the seat of consciousness. I have no connection with there's anything other than me being a people pleaser. I might not even see myself as a people pleaser. It's just the way I relate to people in the world. But once I realize that's a part, I can ask that part to unblend and come into relationship with that part from self. So as long as I'm blended with a part, you know, you can't be in relationship with one thing, right? But once I unblend from the part, then I have the people pleaser and self, and that's the relationship that we're now going to come into. And the relationship is really about learning. And see, I can say all the things I've said up to this point came from coming into relationship with my people pleaser to learn, how does she get this job? Why is she doing the things that she's doing? When did she start doing this? You know, what trauma occurred? And then to— for her to take on this role, like, what happened, right? And so once we find all of these things out, we often learn that these parts are protecting our vulnerable younger version of ourself that was the one that received or was involved in a traumatic experience.

Yeah, well, I can, I can relate to this because I think we've, you know, I've heard a lot about like becoming more of the observer, right? Stepping, stepping back a little bit and understanding that we are not our thoughts. We are not, you know, these, these parts that we have. And again, I like what you said, but it's not about getting rid of them. It's about observing them and having them play their, their proper role in our, in our overall character.

That's exactly what we're doing.

Yeah. So, um, how do we— how does someone— how do you start working with someone to identify? Because we don't all have the same parts, I would assume, or at least not to the same degrees. So how do we start to identify what parts are, are like out of control for us?

Yes. So it's what people come into therapy with, right? Typically when someone shows up for therapy, they, they're coming in with a problem in their life, and typically they've already tried several different ways to solve this problem, right? Yeah. So I've been in therapy. I know I tried the stuff first, it didn't work. So it's like, okay, so now I'm going to go seek some help. So where we're starting with is whatever the client comes in with as their presenting problem. So if it's a relationship they have, they're having problems with their children, they are— just got fired from a job, whatever it is, whatever the presenting problem is, I'm listening for the parts involved in that problem. You know, I got overlooked for a promotion. It wasn't fair. I should have gotten the job, but this person who's newer to the company got it. And I'm at this place where I'm trying to decide, do I want to stay here and have to train this person, or leave and go do something else, you know, find another job? So I'm listening for, you know, this person feeling, you know, not valued within their job, feeling overlooked. So these are parts that I'm listening for. And so then I want have the person come into relationship with— or their parts, rather, come into relationship with self so that self can be the one that heals. The thing is, people may come in with one situation, like, you know, I was overlooked for a promotion and now I need to make some decisions about how I want to be in this company or leave. But often that's connected to an earlier trauma, you know, this feeling of over— being overlooked, not fitting in, not being appreciated. So that's what I'm going— so yes, you have the presenting problem, but I'm holding holding or curious what this might be triggering or activating from maybe an earlier trauma.

Yeah, it's interesting. As we're talking about this, I can think a lot of times we can identify these things in other people, right? It's, it's much easier to identify in someone else than ourselves because we can all think of a friend. It's like, okay, they overreact every time this happens, but we don't see that ourselves.

Yeah. And you know why we don't see it in ourselves? Because we're the part in the moment, right? You're 100% blended with this part that is raging or upset or critical or whatever that part is doing. So we can't see it in ourselves. But the reason we see it in other people is in order to see it, there needs to be at least two entities present. So we see it in others because it's them and us. But when we're blended, it's just us in my anger. So that's all I see is, you know, red.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's funny because even as you start to do work, sometimes you can snap into that, you know, you can be pulled right back into it. And you think, you think you've figured it out. And then you realize later, it's like, oh, I just got pulled right back. And I was right back there.

Absolutely. Right back in it again, that part gets reactivated again, from whatever has happened before. You're absolutely correct.

Yeah. So I could see how this would definitely help to heal trauma. One thing I'm really intrigued by, I know you talk about generational trauma.

Yes.

And it's something that I've learned about pretty recently. And being a person of color, you know, I think that, you know, I know our people have been through and are still going through a lot. So talk to me about generational trauma, how that affects us, and then we'll talk about how we can maybe work on some of that.

Yeah. Generational trauma is my favorite thing to work with my clients on. Our generational trauma is that trauma that has been handed down to us from our ancestral line. So you may find something that you do, you notice your father did it, your grandfather, down that male line, right? And the reason that I enjoy working with generational trauma is that it is a trauma that is easier, I believe, for my clients to release because it's, it's a trauma that didn't belong to them, that they inherited it. You know, and so often just the realization that this trauma does not belong to them is enough for them to start saying, oh, okay, so I can let this go. Like, I didn't— this doesn't come from my lived experience. And those traumas are— we call those personal traumas. Those can be more entrenched and harder and take more work in order to help a client release those. But that generational trauma that's just been handed down, but you You know, one of the ones that I see a lot is the ultra-resilient or self-reliant Black woman and all that that means and what she puts to the side in order to be everything to everybody. And she'll say, well, my mother took care— my mother was a single mother. She took care of everything. And my grandmother, you know, even though my grandfather was around, she still took care of everything in the house. And she put herself last and made all these sacrifices. And then we realized that, this isn't— this wasn't your choice.

Yeah.

This has been inherited. So you don't have to be this way. We can release this. Yeah.

Yeah. So those things are— we may feel like they were modeled for us. This is— this is what a Black woman is, or this is what a Black man is, or this is whatever. Um, and we, we just kind of go on. And, and a lot— I see people doing that unquestionably, right? Because this is— this is who we are. This is what we do.

Yes. Yes. And not even— I mean, in addition to not even— in addition to being modeled, we also have that genetic component.

Yeah.

You know, that our genes literally transform based on traumas that we experience, and that traumatic gene change can be handed down to the next generation. So some of it is we might not have even seen it, but yet still carry it.

Yeah, that's a great point. Because science is just now catching up with that. I think we've known that intuitively for a long time. But I know, yeah, they've done experiments, and they've actually traumatized animals, and the next generation who didn't even experience the trauma or even see the trauma will carry that, that reaction, that trauma reaction.

Absolutely. Yeah.

So I know, like, I can think of my own family. I remember my grandmother, talking about her mother, which would be my great-great-grandmother, and the way that she was. And she's like— and I remember her saying to my mother, this is the way I am because this is the way my mother was. And my mother's saying to me, this is the way I am because this is the way my mother was. And we didn't have this term for it back then, but we kind of— again, I think we knew at some level that this was being passed from generation to generation.

Absolutely. Yeah.

So we, we talked about healing generational trauma. Can we actually— we talked about going forward, can we heal our ancestors going back both ways?

Yes, we can. And in the— and this is another reason why I love the generational stuff. So when I'm working with someone who has generational trauma, one of the things that I do is we invite in a well ancestor from that line. So say I'm working with a woman who has the strong Black woman narrative, and so we're going to ask all of the ancestors, female ancestors that hold that same burden, to come in. We welcome those women in, and then we're going to ask for a wise wise ancestor that is healed on that line, that's well, to come in to help with the work. And so we are going to release that burden from that ancestral line with the help of that wise and well ancestor. And by the change happening in the current generation, we're helping to heal future generations also. So it goes both ways— from the, the person in the present is healing those that came before them and also healing those that will come after I think that's so important.

And I completely agree with what you're saying. I can see why you get excited about it. Because yeah, as an African American person raised in this country, I see the trauma that, you know, that our ancestors have gone through. And, you know, sometimes people will say, well, that wasn't you. So why are you still carrying that? Or that ended 50 years ago. Why is it so bad? First of all, Well, it didn't end. It still didn't end. But secondly, it's like, we don't— again, we don't really understand how that ripples through the generations and even through the DNA. So we can be born with it even though we've never experienced it ourselves.

Yeah. And there are things that we're doing that we don't— we're disconnected from the original trauma. Like the example you gave about your great-grandma, grandma, and mom, it's perfect that we can be dis— that original trauma may have come from from several generations before, great-grandma even. So we're totally disconnected from the trauma, but yet we're still behaving in the way of how that person who experienced that trauma was impacted.

Yeah, I can definitely see it in my family on both sides in different ways, you know, because— yeah, it's that in my family it presents as like a kind of a— we're not very emotional people. We're not very expressive. You know, we don't express much. And so I always thought, well, that's because that's what I saw. You know, in my house. And now I'm realizing it's, it's even more than what we see. It's what, what's our— what our ancestors have experienced, right?

Right. One of the things, one of the generational burdens I have is anxiety. And so, like, I didn't see— like, as a child, I couldn't even say how I saw anxiety, you know what I mean?

Right.

But my grandmother, my mother, myself— and so at least— and my great-grandmother, because I, I was— my grandmother was living while I was living. And so I could— all of us had some level of anxiety. And like, when I learned about generational trauma, I was like, oh, that's what this is.

Yeah.

Like, you know, it's just been handed down.

Yeah. So yeah, you, you really— because I— same, I, I've had this anxiety since always. And right, and, and I'm like, why? You know, I'm— and What do I do about it? So what do we do when we, when we have that? Because I feel like it's just like part of my, my body, right?

Yes. So the first thing that I want to find out is what part of this doesn't belong to my client so we can unburden the anxiety that does not belong to the client, that generational piece. Then we're going to spend time working with the parts of the anxiety that does belong to the client. So my anxiety that belongs to me, that was my own lived experience, came from growing up in a household with domestic violence. So things weren't safe. Things weren't— so that changed literally my somatic experience, my nervous system, you know, not being able— voices get raised. And when people would raise their voices at me as a young adult, adult even, this anxiety, this would come. And I didn't— hadn't been in therapy long enough to connect that to my upbringing. So there's the piece that doesn't belong to us. So we— I, I often want to unburden the generational trauma first because it's usually a little easier to release, and then come and do that work with the part that was our own personal lived experience, because that's going to be more involved, and there— that's more directly related to our own trauma.

Yeah. So, um, without revealing any confidential information, of course, can you, can you talk about how maybe this has helped someone, like, in practical terms? They came into you and, and this type of, this type of work helped them?

Absolutely. Yeah. So I think when people are on automatic pilot with their parts and just living their life being, you know, angry, rage Anger and rage is a really big one where people are just saying that, you know, I've lost jobs because of my anger. You know, my partner is at the point where, you know, they're ready to leave me if I don't get this under control. Um, my children don't want to be around me when I'm— when they see that coming on. So, you know, this anger is impacting this person in all types of ways. Because of my area of expertise, most of what my clients are dealing with is related to childhood sexual abuse or domestic violence. That either they experienced or, like me, witnessing it in your home or growing up in a household where it's taking place. So that's what I'm trying to get back to. Because often we think that the rage, the anxiety, the discomfort, the insecurity, whatever it is we're experiencing, we think it's related to what's happening today. And it's not. That's triggering it. But where it's actually coming from is something that happened in the past. Like you said about the friend who overreacts, right? We know that that's not that's not related to what's happening in the moment because it was too big. The response was bigger than the moment. So that's where I'm typically going back to, is those original injuries and abuses that happen in childhood. And usually, of course, in the case, because of my work, it's usually related to childhood sexual abuse.

Yeah. So once we identify, um, that this is not— well, again, we have two different levels. So I can think of my case of why some of it's personal, some of it's generational. So once I identify that, then what do we do?

So once— so we've taken care of the generational piece. So the first thing we're going to do is work with that anger. I'm going to use the anger as an example. So that's a part that's protecting that young one that was abused. So in this case, sexually abused. And so that young one may be holding shame, may be holding that they're unlovable, that often they're holding that they're dirty, they're unworthy. And so this this one that's caught, that's exploding in anger, doesn't want that young one to be harmed again, nor do they want us— they don't want us to feel the shame, the not good enough, the unworthiness of this part either. So they're— and the part itself can be hiding itself, and we call that an exile, that particular type of part that has exiled itself. So we have to work with that rage and anger first, understand who it's protecting, which is that young one, and get permission from this protector to go and heal that young one. But the protector has to first come into relationship with the client's self. And so that's what I'm helping the client to do, is to build a relationship, what we call a self-depart relationship, between their angry part and their self. Um, I always say with IFS I'm not giving you anything. I'm not healing anything. I'm helping you to access your natural healing ability because we all have it. And so I'm holding that container to help that healing to happen. And once that protector trusts us, then it'll allow us access to the exile. And now the exile comes into relationship with self for that ultimate healing. Yeah.

As you're saying this, I was in therapy, wow, 35 years ago, 30 years ago, and I remember I remember my, my, you know, the therapist was talking about, let's talk about your childhood. I'm like, why are we talking about my childhood? You know, I'm here because of what I'm going through now. And she helped me identify things that I didn't even think of as trauma. I just thought of like, this is the way it is, this is the way families are. And she's like, no, no, that's not the way families are. And it really opened my eyes up. And, uh, and so I, I know as we're saying this to some people haven't experienced themselves, they might be thinking, well, you know, this whole inner child stuff, and, you know, it seems like it may not be really relevant. But I can tell you from personal experience, it really helped me a lot and helped give me language to express it even to my family about like, because I was, I was called when I was a kid, they call me the sensitive one, because I would get upset about stuff that nobody else in my family got upset about. So I felt like, you know, I'm the oddball, I'm the weird one that, you know, experiences these things. So I will say that I think understanding these things and understanding that we all have these parts and we all experience things differently, I think, is another real interesting thing. Because you can grow up in the same family and your siblings might experience one thing and you experience something completely different.

Yes. And that also has to do with our composition of parts, you know, so that for them to experience it differently too. Something else that you just said that reminds to say that IFS is a non-pathologizing therapy. And what that means is I'm not— I don't want to diagnose you with this thing or that thing, because what I really understand, being 30 years in this field of psychotherapy, is trauma is at the root of most of the diagnoses we give clients. Right. And we're understanding that more and more as a field. You know, when I first came into this field, we didn't talk about trauma the way we talk about it now, 30 years ago.

Yeah, it's funny, as you said, I'm kind of smiling because my daughter is a mental health professional.

Oh, okay.

The first thing you have to do is get a diagnosis, and it drives her crazy. Yes, client comes in, but for insurance purposes, it's like, that's it, what's the diagnosis? We have to write something down and give it a label. Uh, and, and I love what you said about non-pathologizing because again, when I, I was taking Positive Intelligence, which sounds— it's very similar, um, we were— that one of the things that the, the guy was talking about was, or created it, was like, it doesn't mean something's wrong with you. It doesn't mean you have an illness or a malady or a disorder. We all have these parts. We have various parts to varying degrees, and it's, and it's normal. We need to learn how to basically integrate them, as you say, kind of separate them, integrate them, whatever, whatever terminology you want to— we want to but to tell people there's, there's really nothing wrong with you. Because sometimes people feel like, you know, I'm, I'm broken, I'm, I'm damaged.

Yeah. Which I think that's heartbreaking when I hear that too. So heartbreaking.

And it puts shame on therapy because, you know, you said something earlier about like— and I find this true— the last thing people want to do is, is go to therapy to seek help. Uh, they, they would rather numb it somehow, self-medication, or, you go to— just give me, just give me a pill. But I don't want to sit down and figure out what's really going on with me.

Yeah. And even that, Brian D Smith, are our parts. Those parts that take us into drug use, those parts that numb us, those parts that dissociate, those parts that binge on Netflix or whatever— sugar in my case, whatever it is— those are still our parts trying to protect us.

Yeah.

And that's why I always ask my clients when they come in, what strategies have you already tried to work on this problem, to solve this problem in your life? Because I'll know those strategies are their parts. Yeah, I, you know, I have a couple of glasses of wine every night. You know, I've been cheating on my partner for the excitement. You know, these are the things the parts are doing, trying to fix, trying to feel better, trying to— or not feel, you know, might be the case. Um, so yeah, so those strategies are really important to know because that's how the parts are trying to protect.

Yeah, it's fine. As you were saying, I was thinking about— I just heard something the other day. It was a sermon, and the guy was talking about the verse in the Bible about how Paul says, I don't understand what I do. The things that I want to do, I don't do. The things that I don't want to do, I do. And it comes right back around to what we've been talking about.

Yeah, yeah. I just had the privilege to read a colleague's book that's coming out on grief, uh, which is Healing Wholeheartedly, I believe, is the name of the book that will come out sometime this summer. But that's one of the things that she was drawing, is the connection between the Bible and Christianity and parts. Like, and that, that scripture is actually one of the ones that she uses in the book, just speaking about the connection that, like, because people I think that some people believe that when we're talking about parts and things like that, we've gotten into woo-woo zone and New Age stuff, and it's not. I mean, she takes it all the way back to the Bible and, and how, um, and find support for that, and then also how to work with grief, um, through connection with the Bible and Christianity too.

Yeah, I— well, again, it's, it's funny. I was raised in the church. I read the Bible my whole life. My grandfather was a pastor. His parents were pastors. So, you know, I've got the whole background, and then I kind of moved from that. But there's some really brilliant stuff in there. And I think that's one of those passages that we can all relate to. We all can relate to, I know I shouldn't be doing this, you know, but I'm doing it anyway. It could be sugar, it could be drugs, it could be having an affair, whatever it is. We want to do it. We feel like, yeah, self is like, this is not good for you. Don't do this.

This is not good for you. Right? This isn't gonna go well. But we find ourselves doing it anyway. Because there's some benefit in that, you know, the, the, the rush or the soothing, depending, that I get from sugar is serving a purpose at the time that I take it. Now, after, I'm like, why did you eat all that? You feel awful. You ate those Oreos, that, that— you feel awful now after doing that. But in the moment, they're keeping me from feeling anxious or keeping me from whatever it is that they're helping to mask or take care of. In the moment, it feels it. But then we'll have other parts. And that's another part too, that one that comes in and criticizes. Yeah. Now you feel awful.

Yeah.

You shouldn't have eaten that. Why did you do that? You know better. Yeah.

Yeah. That's really interesting too, because you're exactly right. It's like— and we call that the, like, the judge, right? Or that says, okay, now you really screwed up. You're a terrible person. You know better than that. Yes.

That terrible person one, I can really identify with that one. Yeah. But that's what the judge is telling us. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

So how, um, how could IFS help people that are going through grief?

Yeah, yeah. So the grieving parts, you know, the interesting thing— I was, you know, knowing that I was coming onto your podcast. Now, when I was invited, I was not going through grief, but between being invited and coming, I lost my grandmother. Yeah, I heard about that.

I'm sorry.

Thank you. Thank you so much, Brian. I appreciate that. So that was just in December. So what I was noticing is the the differences in the various significant grieving periods I've had in my life. So my very first significant grief was losing a pregnancy at 5 months along, my first child. So that was one. And that grief was just— I don't even— there's times I don't even know how I survived that grief, really. The next one was losing my youngest brother. And that one was really hard too because my brother was murdered. My brother, um, and all the decisions about whether to go to court or not, and because the person was caught, and just all of that. And now this most recent one with my grandmother, and each one was different, and different parts showed up. So when we think about grieving parts, there's, there's not just one type of part that comes up in grief, because it really depends on the significance, the relationship, where we are in our own healing journey. Um, but what I will say is, you We have parts that don't want to believe that we've lost. We have parts that feel like we can't go on because of this loss. We have— I noticed that this time around with my grandmother, I had parts that were like, we don't have time for this. You don't have time to grieve. You're doing too much. You don't have time for a breakdown. So we're just going to push, push, push. But what I've been calling this for myself is a stuck grief. I can feel the stuckness of it, but at the same time, it's not moving, right? When I lost my daughter, that grief was just— I was just a walking grieving mother. I mean, it was oozing from my pores. And so there's also— there can be hopelessness, despair with grief. We also can have suicidal parts activate in grief. So it's just— it's really a gamut of parts that could show up. And it's different for every client. And as I represented. It's also different for every loss.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I hadn't really thought about it in terms of parts before. That's an interesting way to look at it. Because we do, you know, people ask me, like, what are the stages of grief? I'm like, there aren't, there aren't any defined stages. They're different for every person. And they're different for every loss. I just— yes, my uncle passed away 4 years ago yesterday. And, you know, I was looking— my cousin sent me like the memorial video today. And I was looking at it again. And My uncle was really close to me, and I realized, and I was watching it, I'm like, it's been 4 years, but that grief is very different than when I lost my daughter, you know, 10 years ago.

Exactly.

Different parts you reactivate. The 'I can't go on' part. Now, when my uncle passed, that didn't, that didn't happen. That part wasn't that great at all. He was 77 years old, and, you know, but when my daughter passed, the 'I can't go on' part was activated.

Yeah, big time.

Type. But I can see how it'd be beneficial to see that as a part, not as, not as me, right? Yeah, I could, I could see how this could really help when you're in grief and you're, and you're having these different emotions, and they can be different every day.

Every day. Yes, sir. Yeah. And I, I didn't have the benefit of IFS when I lost my daughter. I did with my, uh, brother, and of course now with my grandmother. And even that changed things because I really did feel that this was just me, you know, like, just, I just can't go on. Like, all of it was me. Whereas when it came to my brother, I was able to have some interventions for myself because what I noticed with that loss is I had a visceral response and breakdown every 15th of the month, which was the date of his murder. Every 15th of the month, for a solid year, for that first year of grieving. And so I said to myself, probably about after it happened 3 months in a row, maybe even 4, I realized there's a part of me that needed to grieve on the 15th of the month. So I decided I closed my practice on the 15th of the month. I will not see clients because that was a hard day. It was a work day that fell on a weekday. It was hard for me to see clients, um, on that day and hold my own grief at the same time. So because I had now this model of IFS at that time, I was able to say, you need to just grieve on the 15th. And the 16th, I was better. The 14th, I was okay. But the 15th, I was out.

Yeah. Wow. That's, you know, it's funny and not funny, but it's so wild you said that because my daughter passed on a Wednesday and for my wife it was Wednesday and I'm like, we're going to have a Wednesday every 7 days. You know, this is, this is But, you know, and it, it changes. It was a Wednesday, and then it was the 24th of every month, and then it was, you know, you know, it, it kind of morphs over time. It's not every Wednesday.

Yes, it does.

Wednesday, I don't think about it, you know, anymore.

Yeah.

And not even the 24th of every month. But, you know, those still— but still, every angelversary, every birthday. Yeah, it comes back big time.

Absolutely. And I remember the first 15th of the And I was like, I'm not— I'm present. I'm not out of it. I can work. I can enjoy today. I can, you know, just all the things that I wasn't able to connect with. But it was— for me, it really was having the language of IFS to know a part of me just needed to check out on the 15th of the month and be able to do that for that part.

Right. And being able to give yourself permission to understand that this is going to come up and this is okay. Um, it's not gonna last forever, because that's the other thing about when we go through grief. We feel like it's gonna last, it's gonna be this way forever, you know, it's, it's never going to change. And that—

never gonna change.

I think that's the part that really makes it unbearable, you know.

Yeah, yeah. And even knowing that that one's apart, why does this one feel that it's going to go on like this forever?

Yeah.

What do we need to— is there something we do? Something in IFS called updating. Is there some updating we need to give this part to help it to appreciate that this too will end?

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah, that's really— that's a really big revelation. So in your book, you talk about A Practical Guide to Healing with Internal Family Systems. So what will people find in your book?

Oh my goodness. I am a lover of homework with my clients. If you're one of my clients, you're going to get homework in between sessions. So I took the homework that I would typically give to a client and put that in the book. So you're going to learn how to work with your parts, but not just reading, learning. IFS is something that we need to experience in our body. Our parts live in our bodies. And so that's what I give. There are meditations, there's exercises, there's journaling. So every chapter has— every chapter has a meditation and different numbers of exercises. It might be 2, might be 3, but there's a meditation. And the power, if we want to go back to ancestors, The power of the meditations is these meditations were given to me from my ancestors on my mother's mother's line. They gifted me with the first meditation that was about generational healing. And it's a connection, a meditation that connects you with an ancestor on one of your generational lines. And from that, giving me that meditation, those ancestors told me that this one ancestor their meditation is going to morph into a book, an IFS book, to help folks with many more meditations. And they gifted me, I think, in total 9 meditations. I think there might be 12 or 13 in there because there's some that I just added. But my ancestors on my mother's mother's line were really, uh, important. Yeah, I can feel them as we're sitting here. But they played such a major role in the birth of this Yeah, I, I, I love that.

And what you said about the, the homework, I think is so important because, um, I'm not a, I'm not a mental health counselor. I, I'm a coach, but I help people. I guide people through grief and kind of help people reframe, uh, what they're going through. And you know what we do in the sessions, yeah, that's important, but it's really important we do— and it's important what you do in between the sessions. Are you putting things into practice? You Like you said, I'm, I'm not here to give you the answers. We don't— I don't give you any, any magic, like, yeah, I'll say these words to you and you'll be better. Uh, you've really got to do the internal. It's work, you know. I, I always hesitate when I say that because it's like, I don't want to drive people away, but it's work.

But it's the reality, right? It is, it is. And I always tell my clients, if all you do is come spend this hour with me the work is going to take longer. You know, if you're not applying what you're learning in the hour with me to your life, it's going to take a whole lot longer. I mean, because the real work is in your everyday life. You know, this is where you come to get the skills and, and those type of things, but you've got to then go apply them out there.

So yeah, it'd be like going to a, to a trainer and you would sit with the trainer and they tell you, here are the exercises you need to and you'll get stronger. And then you go and you come back a week later and you— and he goes, well, what have you done? Well, I haven't done anything. You're not going to be any better.

Yeah, I'm just going to throw up here with you.

Yeah, I, yeah, I, I completely agree. It's, it's, you know, you've got to, you've got to put it into practice. You've got to—

that's right—

work. It's got to become a daily thing. You've got to, you've got to, um, become more— I tell people— more mindful. Because people hate it when I say you have to meditate, but you should become more mindful because you need to be able to separate out that from the parts to say, that's right, this is, this is not me. And I have, as I've been doing this over the last several years, I've gotten much better at recognizing when those parts are, are being triggered and being able to say, hey, wait a minute, that's not— this is not what I want to do, this is not who I want to be.

But, and that too is the beauty of the work, Brian, is that the more we do it, like you're saying, you're noticing the parts, but the parts are noticing you too. Like, they're trusting you more because because you're coming into relationship with them, which then means that they don't have to activate as much as they did before. The reason they're doing all the things they're doing is because they don't know we're here. Like, they don't know Tamla is available to them. Like, you don't have to do this. You're not alone. But once you recognize them and they know you see them, you have that rela— that's why we say that self-to-part relationship is so important. So again, if someone comes to therapy and I say, well, Well, for homework, I want you to connect with that part, that people-pleasing part that we were working on in session, and just noticing your relationships at work or with your children when that part is activated.

Yeah.

And then they come back and say they didn't do any of that. Well, the part's not going to change.

Yeah, exactly. That's great. So I know you also lead retreats. You said you're in Costa Rica right now. You're doing retreats. Tell me about what the retreats are like.

Beautiful. So I'm hosting retreats for BIPOC women. That's Black, Indigenous, People of Color for females. And the retreat is about generational trauma that women of color are holding so much generational trauma. And these women heal best in community with other women of color. And so I hosted my first one back in October of 2024. I'm hosting my second one here in Costa Rica at Ananda Lodge, um, starting April 30th. This one will be 7 days, and there are still spaces available in this retreat if people are interested in joining. And they can reach me at tamla.floyd.com to find out about the retreat that's being offered starting April 30th. But this is really about healing from, uh, generational trauma with ancestor wisdom. So this is coming right from the book. I call the retreats Listening with Speak retreats, because that's what it's about, listening to those parts to help us heal and welcoming in the ancestors of the women's lines in order to help with that healing.

I think it's so important what you said about community, because we've been raised to, to do things on our own. We've been raised to be independent. That's, that's our culture. That's, that's our broader culture here in America, but also, yes, in some of our homes. And we forget about the fact— I don't believe people can be independent. I don't believe we're meant to grieve on our own. I don't believe we're meant to even heal these things on our own. So, you know, it's really cool as I've, as I've traveled this path and realized I've got, I've got the help of my ancestors, I've got the help of, you know, I can, I can join them, people in community. And community doesn't necessarily have to be family because sometimes our family is not there for us. Um, yeah, and frankly, sometimes when we go through trauma, the people we thought were going to be for the— there for aren't. So community, you know, I think it needs to be intentional.

So it does.

Having a place where we come together with people who are like-minded, who, you know, have the same, same language, same framework, I think is really, really important. And I think that, um, so I, I can see the beauty of like bringing people together to, to heal together. That's, I think, how humans are designed.

We are. Yeah. And the point you make about family, the number of women who've come on retreat who didn't have the support of family and then found connection. That's another thing that I really love about these retreats is the way that folks connect and pair up and continue to stay connected after the retreat.

Yeah, well, you know, an example, when, uh, my wife and I went to the first Helping Parents Heal retreat because our daughter passed away, and this was, uh, I guess it's been about 8 years ago now since that first retreat, and there were 8 women that met up at that retreat and they communicate pretty much on a daily basis since then. You know, they've become basically like family. And there's— these are people that, again, same, same language, you know, same beliefs about— same, you know, similar lived experiences, having lost children. And, you know, you come together. And so when you go to these retreats, it's, it's what you do on the week or the weekend, but it's also maybe connections you can make that they carry on.

Absolutely they are. And that's one of the things that I'm hoping to create is these communities outside of the community, right? We all came together but now we have these new connections that can support us because we've had— we engaged in this shared healing experience. Yeah.

Well, Tamla, we're coming to the end of our time.

Yes.

Is there anything that I should have asked you that I didn't, or anything you'd like to say?

There's no— I can't think of anything that you didn't ask. I just— I feel like we had a really wonderful conversation that just flowed, and I feel like I learned things about you, and I was able to share things with your listeners. Listeners. So this just has felt like a really good experience for me.

Yeah, well, uh, yeah, definitely same for me as well. So remind people again, um, you mentioned your website. Remind people which website is and the name of your book.

So a couple of things that I want to let people know. So my website is tamilafloyd.com. You can get me at IG at Tamila Floyd underscore author. The book that's out right now is Listening When Parts Speak. This is a practical guide to healing with IFS and ancestor wisdom, so you can work on some of your own traumas and things that you're working towards healing through working through this book. And then I have a new book that's coming out, um, May 2025. I'm very excited about this book. It's an audiobook and it's called Healing the Wounded Mind. Mother. And it's for women who became mothers before they had done their own trauma healing and how we can now heal, um, and the impact that our trauma has on our children.

Oh wow, that sounds like very much needed. So yeah. Oh yeah, you have to come back when that comes out.

I would love to come back when that comes out and speak to you again, Brian D Smith.

Yeah, well, great. Well, thanks for doing this. Uh, enjoy the rest of your— I don't know what time it is where you are in Costa Rica, but enjoy the rest of your day. Uh, I will. All right.

Thank you so much. You too.

Bye.

Bye-bye.

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