Her Son Never Spoke So She Learned To Listen To The Silence with Gina Gayle Gray EP 398

You know you need something, you're just not sure what. You've been listening, you're doing the work, but there's still this feeling that you're circling the same place, like you're waiting for the thing that finally moves you. Now maybe you've thought about working with me one-on-one. Maybe something's held you back, the timing, the money, or you're just not sure you're ready yet. I get that. And I want you to know there's still a place for you. I built a resource for exactly this moment, guided meditations for when the waves hit and you just need to breathe. Workbooks to help you get out of your head and onto the page, ebooks on what near-death experiences tell us about the people we've lost, and whether they're really gone, a full course for widows and widowers who are ready to find their way back to living, and a full course for the evidence of the afterlife. And all of it is available for pay what you want. Nobody gets turned away because of money. I think these resources are valuable, but I don't want to hold them back because you don't have the money to pay for them. You don't have to wait until you're ready for coaching. The next step might be a lot smaller than you think. To find out, go to grief2growth.com/store. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/store. And check out the resources I've made for you.

So he actually coded on her. And we, my husband and I both knew that he was, he was gone. It was, it was It was shocking and it was tragic, and no one in the hospital knew or came, um, until I went out in the hall and, and, and started screaming for people. Then they came in, um, called the code blue. And in his book, his perspective of that experience, his soul contract was complete. And he says he made a decision, he signed in his soul contract And he agreed to come back for another 7 years, but never was the joy that exuded from this child his entire life.

Close your eyes and imagine what are the things in life that cause us the greatest pain? The things that bring us grief are challenges, challenges designed to help us grow to ultimately become what we were always meant to be. We feel like we've been buried. But what if, like a seed, we've been planted. And having been planted, we grow to become a mighty tree. Now, open your eyes. Open your eyes to this way of viewing life. Come with me as we explore your true, infinite, eternal nature. This is Grief to Growth. And I am your host, Brian D Smith. Hey there, I'm Brian D Smith. I'm the host of Grief 2 Growth. And whether this is your first time tuning in or you're a regular listener, I want to welcome you to the show. It's all about helping you navigate through the toughest times in life, understanding who we are, why we're here, what happens after this life, all those important questions. We tackle today's— we tackle life's deepest questions, and today is no exception. I'm honored to be joined today by Gina Gail Gray. Gina is an emotional health coach, a counselor, and an oracle whose remarkable history— remarkable story, I should say— of transformation through grief. After losing a 23-year-old son, Spencer, Gina was catapulted into a profound healing journey that led her to become what she calls a wounded healer. Gina now uses her unique connection with Spencer, who resides in the spirit realm, to help others navigate their own emotional wounds and grief. She's here to share with us how she learned to listen to the silence of her son, who never spoke words but communicated powerfully through other means, both during his life— during his physical life, I should say— and now beyond. We'll explore topics such as how Spencer taught Gina to hear his silent communication when he was just a child, how she began to understand the language of emotions, and the incredible moments that they— when they first connected after Spencer's transition. We'll also dive into Gina's book, Listen to the Silence: Messages and Miracles from Spencer Who Never Spoke Words, a channel work that continues to share Spencer's wisdom. And by the end of this conversation, you'll not only gain insights into how we can continue our relationships with our loved ones in spirit, but also how we can heal deep emotional wounds through love and connection. So I encourage you after the, after the conversation here to join us at grieftogrowth.com/community to continue the conversation there. And with that, I want to welcome Gina Gail Gray.

Thank you. It's very, very nice to be here, and I appreciate you.

Yeah, it's really good to have you here today. I know you're joining us, you said, from Texas, but you recently moved to Mexico, which sounds really exciting.

Yes, I did. But I still have a daughter. I still have family here in Texas. Yeah, good to come back and visit.

Yeah, we'll get into that because I know that that's a continuation of the work that you're doing, but When I talk to someone who's a fellow Shining Light parent, someone who has a child in spirit, I always like to start off by talking about our children. So tell me about Spencer.

Oh, tell you about Spencer. Spencer was an incredible gift in my life. He, he lived 23 years, he never spoke a word, and he was never able to move himself independently. But he certainly lived, he lived and he taught. And we did a lot of work together when he was here in body. And so it wasn't surprising at all that our work continued when he crossed over. The most important thing that he taught me when he was here, being, being an individual who could never communicate with words, he taught me how to listen to those who are communicating without words. And that's not limited to people, it's limited to— I mean, it's, it's, it also includes animals and spirits, you know, whatever we call our God, angels, any spiritual beings, they're not tangible, they're not right in front of us, but they are absolutely communicating with us. And the most important aspect of that is listening. And so the listening to the silence is a really important part of my work, then and now. Mm-hmm.

So what does it mean listening to the silence? Because we think about listening, we think about hearing someone's voice. And when someone doesn't have a voice, that becomes a different thing.

Yeah, Listen to the Silence is about patience, and it's about calming and quieting the monkey mind, which I think most people are very familiar with, with how the mind can be a monkey that we would like to tame, but we can't because there's this endless loop of thoughts that are firing at us, especially in today's world, because today's world is just so dynamic and so information heavy. And so it's very, very hard to discern the information that's coming in through our mental aspect, through our mind. And in order to get to the, to the clarity, to the spiritual messages that are available to us at all times, people are familiar with— religion has taught praying for a very long time. Praying is talking, talking to Source. And people are pretty good at that, the begging, the praying, the the screaming, the whatever, help me, help me. And what they are not as good at and have not been taught properly is waiting for an answer. Well, waiting for an answer happens while listening to the silence. And at first you think that it is silence. And then the longer that you listen in silence, the better you get at hearing the messages that are available from nature, from animals, from from a child like my son. It was a, it was a growing process. And I had 23 years practice because he lived 23 years in a body that could not communicate with words. But he was real good at communicating his wants, needs, and desires. And his people, he chose his people very well. So his people were really good at interpreting and listening to his wants, needs, and desires. So he had a very, very full life. And as things progressed, um, I received more and more lessons about how, how this was going to work. And it's one thing— I know a lot of people out there have children who cannot speak. I know there are a lot of, uh, children and young adults in the, uh, the world of autism who are also nonverbal communicators. And they're, they're discounted and pushed aside. And we make assumptions about them that they, they can't possibly be intelligent because they can't speak words. And the actual truth is they are extremely intelligent. And for instance, my son, can you imagine if you spent 23 years never speaking and only listening, how brilliant you may be?

Good point.

Yeah, it's— yeah, there's a lot of things wrong with our attitude and our belief towards those who cannot speak words. If they cannot speak words, they are like Spencer, like Spencer has now taught me, there's— we all have these ordinary senses. So everyone has the ordinary senses, the 5 known senses: sight, hearing, taste, touch, smell. And everyone also, every human being also has extraordinary senses. And the extraordinary senses include going beyond the physical body senses. And we all, we all have those, we come in with them, it's time to reawaken them. And one of the most important and valuable ones to me is that extraordinary sense of hearing, because that happens to be how I get most of my messages and information from that realm.. And it's, it's not just Spencer, and it's not just available to me. It's available to everyone who takes the time to learn how to listen to the silence. So I know that was a very long answer to your, to your question, but listening to the silence is, it's an art. Yeah.

So when did you realize that Spencer would not be able to speak? Was this something that was diagnosed early, or how did you find out about that?

Yeah, we, we never accepted diagnoses because they, they never fit. They absolutely did not fit. And I, I now I now know, from all of my communication with him since he became spirit, I know a lot more. And, and most of it, or the beginning of it. This is, this is our book. And it's called Listen to the Silence: Messages and Miracles from Spencer Who Never Spoke Words. This is Spencer. And it's, it's a very important handbook, if you will, on ways that those who cannot speak in the conventional way, can possibly communicate with you. And when he was about 5 years old, I knew by then that he was not going to speak words. And then he had, he had profound physical limitations as well. So the talking devices didn't work because he could not activate them. He didn't have the fine motor skills to be able to activate them to be able to speak as quickly as his, his brilliant mind would like him to. So it was, it was then that I started realizing that there's other ways to communicate with him. And it was all based on listening, patience, slowing things down, like we, we can all do with each other if we slow down. And we ask simple questions. And then we wait for the answers. And that's what I learned to do when he was about 5 years old, because it was obvious to everyone that he was, he was not retarded. He was not any of those labels. He quite brilliant. And it was worth taking the time to figure out what it was that he wanted, and what he wanted to say, because there were so many lessons in that. And as a matter of fact, at that time, I thought I was writing the book as a mother of a parent of a child who could not speak words. So I started the book when he was 5, and it was called Listen to the Silence. And I had, I had chapter notes, and I had kind of an outline. And Over the years, I learned more and more by working with speech therapists. And Spencer spent all of his life in therapy. He had physical therapy needs, he had occupational therapy needs, and he had speech therapy needs. And those were our people that we learned the most from because they were all about the hope and the let's go and work with what we can make happen with this child. The physicians who did the one test— he had one test his entire life, one MRI trying to get answers why he wasn't progressing on a normal scale. And, and we knew that— this was when he was 9 months old— we knew what had happened. He was actually injured with, with his 4-month, uh, vaccination. That was the year— there was a time in this world when they changed the schedule from very few to 3 times as many. And, and he was, he was injured with that. And so his, his, um, his maturation stopped, he physically and in every way, but it didn't slow him down from teaching the lessons that he had to teach. So we worked with the people who gave us hope, because that was the most important thing. What can we do with this child? And what kind of life can we give this child? And that included learning to listen to how he was communicating so that he could be an independent, sovereign being, and he can make his own choices. And he could he could live his own life with the support of his family and his therapists. And that's, that's exactly what he did. So we spent 16 years in that way. He could, he could make it— sound could come out of his mouth, he could, he could laugh, he could, he could express joy with his voice. He could, he could make sounds like, mm, because he loved to eat food. And he and I were foodies. So if he would smell the meal cooking and the smells coming upstairs, he— I could hear him from downstairs going, mm, because he could smell it. So after he was 16, he had, he had a medical event. He had his one and only medical event because he was the healthiest child in this very crooked, strangely developing body that the the doctors had ever seen, because we didn't see very many doctors, doctors, but he was extremely healthy. And he was healthy because we did things our way. And we stayed outside and we stayed in movement and we kept him turned and we, you know, he didn't have pressure sores or, and he was independent with his going to the bathroom. He was, he was a sovereign young man. And when he was 16, he got RSV. And RSV is nothing new. It's just now being talked about as if it's something new, but it is nothing new. It is, it's a horrible respiratory disease. It's in the same family as the one that's talked about so much now. And it back then, and for many years, as long as it's been around, it takes the life of children like, like Spencer was at the time, and elderly as well.

Yeah.

So when he got that, we ended up in ICU, and we were there for 60 days. And his doctor did not want to do the tracheostomy. He did not want to go there because he knew that Spencer had such an active life and he did not want to burden the family with the ventilator and all that came with that. And so we tried when he was in the hospital for those 60 days and he was trying to heal from the RSV, we tried to extubate him 3 different times and just go back to what our normal was, which our normal was he was free from any device. Devices or medicines or high need of care. But he was not able. His respiratory health was so damaged from the RSV that it was— he had to have the ventilator. And that meant suction machines. And they sent us home with oxygen and a whole lot of other medical terms that Spencer did not enjoy at all whatsoever. And within 2 months of us being home with all of that, we had DC'd all the equipment that we could. We still had to have the ventilator and we still, of course, had to have the suction machines and nebulizer for when we needed to do breathing treatment. But other than that, we, we DC'd everything and we went on with our life. And but the, the main difference for the last 7 years of his life was with the ventilator he happened to have for his tracheostomy. He hit— it's, it's either cuffed or you can let the cuff down so air can go past. There were like little balloons on the part that was in his throat. And he had to have his cuffed up because he had aspirated many times during his life and almost passed and chose to come back. So he knew what that felt like. And he was, he was insistent that that cuff was to remain inflated. And that was another thing. The doctors were like, that's going to cause problems. He's going to have infection. He's going to have, you know, it's not meant to be up all the time. And his doctor said, leave this family alone. They, they've got this. And, um, but for the last 7 years, he could not make a sound. And we did not know that that was going to be a part of this. We knew nothing about ventilators or living with a vent or what it would do. Um, but we learned, we certainly learned. And What changed when he no longer could make a sound, any kind of noise to get anybody's attention. This meant he had to have somebody by his side always with eyes on him. Because if he were to have a plug or choke or just have a desire to have suction, it was going to happen. So the last 7 years were, were more difficult for sure. But that's when the telepathy between he and I stepped up several notches. So my training in listening to telepathic communication between he and I got an upgrade during those 7 years. Yeah. So I could be, I could be 5 acres away mowing, and he could have 2 attendants by his side. And if they were looking at the TV and didn't know that he needed something, he would send me a message out on the mower, and I would come in the house and shake off and take off my shoes and go upstairs and go right to him. And the attendants would be, you know, What? You didn't tell us you needed anything. It's like, I got the message. And he needed something.

Yeah.

So that made it really easy when he crossed over. I was so familiar with, with him speaking to me and knowing his voice, which direction it comes from, what he speaks, our connection. He used so many terms in his book that are so beautiful. And one of those One of those that's the most powerful is our connection was, was in gratitude. So we were gratefully connected. And when you remember to be gratefully connected to those who need you, who you are in service to, or who are receiving your services, if you can hang on to that gratitude, There's so much to be learned. And it's such a real connection. And that never ends. That when he became spirit, it just grew and it continues to grow. And this is, this is how grief— I've recently learned because I'm in connection with a lot of my spirit guides and guards, which is what I now call the team, because we all have a team. There's not just one, there's so many spiritual beings in our lives and connected to us.. And one of the things that I learned was, was how important it is to stay, to stay in that place, to, you know, enjoy this grateful connection with those and know that we're supported, right?

Yeah.

And yeah, so he talked, he talked a lot about those kinds of things in the book. I think one of the most important reasons why he decided to write this book. So he let me know shortly after he passed that it was time to write the book. And so I thought I was going to write the book just like I had intended when he was 5 years old. And he said, no, Madre. And he started calling me Madre after he crossed over. He calls me Madre, Madre de la Tierra. So he has let me know I am his earth, I was his earth mama. And it's interesting that he used Madre, because I now live in Mexico. So, and I live in the middle of the Sierra Madre Mountains.

Oh, wow.

So there's all this incredible way when I learned to really listen to the silence and receive his messages. So yeah, when he told me that he was going to write the book, and it was going to be from his perspective, that was, that was a a very eye-opening moment. Because I had no idea how that— having been his voice all those years, it scared me for a moment because I thought, oh, did I get it right when I communicated for him and taught people to communicate? What if I didn't get it right? What am I going to hear about this now? And the answer is going through the process of writing the book, scribing the book. I was not the writer, I was the scribe. I was his scribe. He spoke it to me, and I wrote it down, and we published the book. And in that process, it was, it was such an important process, because there were probably only two experiences that we had shared where his perspective— I knew what my perspective was, I knew what his dad's perspective was, because we lived it, you know, together. But there were a couple of things that I was not aware of Spencer's perspective until the book came into fruition. And it was really interesting. One of them was at the moment that when we were in the hospital with RSV, that was in 2012. And on when we were on the floor, when we had gone to the hospital, he had, he had almost died at home and the paramedics got there in time. Our suction, our suction machine wouldn't work because we had never needed a suction machine. So when we needed it and went to get it, it wouldn't work. When the paramedics got there, they were able to get the, get the congestion out and then stabilize him and get us to the hospital. But, um, we were only there 2 days and we were still on the floor just in regular care, like, like any other time we had been to the hospital for dehydration and things. Was the only thing he ever had any illness with. So he actually coded on the floor. And we, my husband and I, both knew that he was gone. It was shocking and it was tragic. And no one in the hospital knew or came until I went out in the hall and started screaming for people. Then they came in, called the code blue, brought in the code blue team, and and took us downstairs. And Spencer wrote in his book his perspective of that experience. And what he said was that he— his soul contract was complete. He was gone. He had agreed to go. And what he did was he looked back and he saw the state of his dad, which was completely different than the state of me. And he says he made a decision, he signed an addendum to his soul contract. And he agreed to come back for another 7 years. And he did, almost to the day. Wow, 7 years is how much longer he was there. And we knew that it was going to be a different time in those 7 years, because we were going to have all of these, you know, the equipment, and we had to have extra people. And it was 24 hours, 7 days a week. For 7 years. It was intense.

Yeah.

But it was in service and complete, complete love and gratitude for what we were learning. And what you can learn from a child who is in that condition, and has every reason in the world to be unhappy and to be miserable, but never was— the joy that exuded from this child his entire life, his, his joy wasn't as pure the last 7 years. And he writes about that in his book as well. And there was a difference. And it's really fascinating what he writes in his book about his connection with his spiritual beings during his time to choose to stay another 7 years and be here in partnership with his dad and I to teach even more in those really, really complicated circumstances.

Sure.

It's all worth it. Yeah. So, so worth it. So after he left, his, his ability to communicate, it's, it was incredible, because I knew right away, he now had his, his finger on the volume. So if I didn't pay attention the first time, and I always would complain about why does everybody have to be told something 3 times? Why is everything 3 times? I have to ask everybody 3 times for something. So when he crossed over, whenever he would want to get my attention, he would bring it to me 3 times in a row. So his, his sense of humor continued on with him, his sense of joy. He let me know that he reunited with his joy when he actually did get to transcend and did get to go through that process to, to transform to light. He picked up his joy when he got there.

Wow.

So yeah, there's, there's a lot of really beautiful information in this book. And he's also— there's going to be 3 books, and he's already working on the second book. And the second book is more messages and miracles from Spencer, because the messages and miracles absolutely did not end when Spencer's physical life ended. They, they actually blossomed.

Yeah.

And I know you know what I'm talking about with— there's, there's so many periods that you go through when you lose a child and cycles of— well, for me, it was, why, why am I still here? My entire purpose, you know, my, my reason for being here was to be in service to him, because it was such an intense service assignment. And they had to work with me a lot to, to help me be patient enough to wait and see what's the new purpose going to be, right? And it still includes them, all of the spirits, guides, and guards, all those who were supporting Spencer and protecting Spencer in any times of crisis. And it's, it's really important to know that we have that kind of support. Especially in today's crazy world. We have that kind of support from the spirit world.

Yeah. I'm curious, Gina, your connection with Spencer obviously is just off the charts. When you realize he wasn't going to be able to speak, and I would imagine you, you learn to read, you know, his eyes and maybe his facial expressions, stuff like that. When did you realize it was actually a telepathic connection? Stay with us.

We'll be right back.

You know, one of the hardest things about grief? Most of the people in your life just don't get it. They want you to be further along than you are. They get uncomfortable when you bring it up. So you stop bringing it up. And that's why I started writing. My Substack is where I go deeper. Thoughts I don't always get to on the podcast. Essays on consciousness, on continuing bonds, on what it actually what it actually means to carry a loss and still build a life. The stuff that used to keep me up at night written out in a way that I hope meets you in the morning. But here's what I didn't expect when I started it. The community that showed up. People who are doing exactly what you're doing. Listening, learning, trying to find their footing. Readers who comment, who share their own stories, who remind each other that none of us are as alone in this as we feel. And that's what the Substack is become, a place to go deeper with me and to find your people. It's free to subscribe. Find me at grief2growth.com/substack. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/substack. Or just go to Substack and search for Grief to Growth. I hope to see you there.

It evolved over the years. And when we, when we tried to work with the speech therapist with the device, And I realized then that the reason why this isn't working is because he's not patient enough to be able to activate a device one letter at a time. We'll never get there. He'll never get to say what he wants to say. So way back then, at that time, I started realizing— because in his speech therapist too, she was— every time after she would have a session with him, she would just give him the biggest hug and she would say, He's so brilliant. She knew too, and, and that's her job as a speech therapist. She knew that he had so much intelligence within him that wanted to find its way out. So, um, you know, and who knows if they'd had all of the, the simpler devices to activate that they have now, um, what, what he— but it just wasn't meant to be. He, he was meant to teach others how to listen to the silence, which meant Slow things down, be patient. And the same, the same can be said for if we're trying to communicate with, with elderly or those who have, you know, they're in the process of they've dropped their mind and they haven't dropped their body yet, but they still are there and you can still have conversation with them if you hang on to the patience and if you slow everything down and ask very simple questions. For Spencer, the questions had to be answered yes or no. So slowing it way down, you couldn't say, do you want the red or green? He would just look at you like, not gonna answer you. Do I want the red? Yes or no? Do I want the green? Yes or no? And so teaching others to be patient and to ask questions that he could answer, because the thing that I wanted people to know, everyone to know, was he's a sovereign being, and he can answer his own questions. And that was really important to him. Because people would look at him and think he was frail and think that he was weak when he was not. He was a very powerful spiritual being inside this body, like we all are. We are spiritual beings having a human experience. And whatever human experience you choose for yourself, you know, it behooves you to get real comfortable with that and make the best of whatever it is, right? So it, it changed over the years as his ability— and he came up with more and more ways to communicate using song lyrics. He loved, he loved country music and country music. If you know anything about country music, their, their lyrics are very easy to listen to. They're storytellers. You can usually understand what they're singing. And, and they are, they're telling a story about someone they love in those songs. So Spencer learned a long time ago that he could, in listening to music, there would be a specific lyric in a song that said a whole sentence, or there would be two songs and he would put them together. And he had a very good attendant who would make these playlists for him. And when they had a playlist put together and he had agreed those were the songs, because he would make you play the song over and over and over again until you heard what he wanted you to hear. So he and this attendant would do that. That's what they did all day. And then at the end of the day, when he had it ready, he would make her come into my office and play me the playlist. And somehow I had the ability by listening to the playlist of putting together exactly what he wanted to communicate. And yeah, so I say now in the, in the spirit world, he has endless tokens to the cosmic jukebox in the sky. He can use any song on any playlist in any, you know, playing in a hotel or a restaurant or out in public or people's satellite radios in their cars. He can, he can hijack anybody's sound system anytime and send them a message, especially using his favorite artist, which is Jason Aldean. Hmm. Yeah, yeah. So he added that in when he was quite young. And it was, it was really amazing. The first time that he did it, I was so excited. And he was so excited because, because he had communicated a complete sentence. And the story came along with the sentence. And this particular song was She's Gone. And it was Montgomery Gentry. And when they're singing the chorus, she's gone, she's gone, she's gone. He and I are laying on the floor listening to it. And he had me play it over and over again. And then I started really listening to why is he, why is he wanting to sing about who's gone? And so I started asking questions. Who's gone? Are you, are you, are you missing someone who's gone? And he could do this for yes. And yes, he was missing someone who was gone. Well, we had had a friend who had stayed the summer with us before joining the Coast Guard. And so he got really, really close to her. And she was now gone from our home and gone to boot camp for Coast— for the Coast Guard. And so I asked him, I said, I said, are you— are you talking about Amy? Are you sad because Amy's gone? Yes, yes, yes. So we played the song over and over again and just had a good cry. For Missing Amy, because we then got to have a conversation. You're sad because you're missing Amy. Well, I'm missing Amy too. And we got to talk about her. And then when his dad got home and his sister got home that evening, we told them, look what— look at how he figured out to tell us the story using music. So that was, that was a step up. And just as years went on, he just got better and better at using numbers. Numbers was another way. And I wouldn't ever know, okay, why am I seeing this number? And everybody knows about numerology and a lot of people use it for different ways to receive messages. He used that even when he was here, because if I would see a number and then the thing, the trick is when you do see something or hear something and you think there's a message in there, ask. That's what we don't do. So if you ask, is there a message here for me, or what is the message here for me, then listen to the silence. Because, because we want everything to be an immediate response, you know, and if it's not, we're just, oh, that doesn't work, and just, just move on because we're impatient, right? So the same thing with, with the, the numbers, the music, stop and have a conversation. Some of that conversation is going to happen in the silence. When you can silence your own mind. But if the mind is full of monkeys and the ego's really, really busy with wanting to figure everything out, wanting to jump in there, you may have to spend a little extra time learning some meditation practices and just learning to still the mind and get quiet. Yeah, that's when you'll find the answers. Yeah.

So you mentioned earlier Spencer, you said Spencer chose his people well, is I think the way you put it. And I think I know the answer to this question, but I have to answer it anyway, or ask it anyway. Do you think that you and Spencer planned this before he came in, before you came in together?

I do. I happen to be in that, in that belief realm. And Spencer has reminded me many, many, many times, it's not seeing is believing, it's believing is seeing. And whatever your belief is, when you, when you adhere to that and then go with it to learn more, stay in that lane, there is so much more to know. And soul contracts are very real. Soul families are very real. Choice is very real. And humans have a real hard time with accepting responsibility for choice. But the truth is, and, you know, there's so much debate about all of these things, especially when you get into the, to the different schools of information that people share about this type of wisdom. And I don't think there is any good, bad, right or wrong. I think what feels, what feels right to you is what is right for you, what is true for you. And so, so my truth is what feels true to me. And what, what keeps me going in that direction is that, yes, all of these soul contracts are agreements. And the thing about those is they can be, they can be ended anytime that we want. But, but people must be taught to do that. And they must, you know, because we're— that's empowerment. And that's, that's the work that I do with clients now is, is my main goal is to empower people to know how powerful they are and to remember, to remember you come into this having made some choices, but the main choice is to live in joy and enjoy the experience. And Spencer, Spencer corrects me, and it's not enjoy, it's not E-N-J-O-Y, it's be in I-N-J-O-Y. So when you, when you switch that one letter, and you choose to be in joy because it's a vibration, it's a frequency. And when you choose that, you find it, it finds you. And those kinds of things are really, really important. And for, for him, he has a, he has a chapter in his book called The Jasons. And it's not just about Jason Aldean, but it's super, super cool how he let me know what his true nature is. And it's, it's fascinating. It's really hard. Some people read that chapter, and they don't understand a bit of it, which is Spencer starts the chapter with, some won't understand any of this, and that's fine. But those who do will know what I'm talking about. So there's a group of watchers, and watchers have been mislabeled and mistaught by religion, but the watchers are very close to Source, and they're— they have an affinity for humanity that not all other angelic beings have. And the Watchers actually choose the type of existence that Spencer chose. And when they're with their, their collective up there making that decision, there's really, really important parts of that. And choosing your team is probably the most important part. Because if you choose an existence like that, and you choose a team that's not going to support you, you're going to have a different experience, right?

Yeah.

And unfortunately, for a lot of people, in Spencer's lifetime, I did a lot of work with other families with children with special needs. For 10 years, we had our own special physical therapy center. And we ended up working with with only families who their child was a nonverbal communicator and non-ambulatory, because that was our specialty. And that's what we had to, had to offer. That's what I could relate to. I wasn't as patient with, with those who, who had less profound needs, because I knew that it was important for me to show up in service to those who, especially the nonverbal communicators, because I just knew I could help those parents know that their child could understand if they spoke to them as if they could.

Right.

And because I learned from Spencer's speech therapist, there's expressive communication skills and there's receptive communication skills, and it's very important to know the difference.

Sure.

And even if someone— because Spencer had zero expressive communication skills, right? But his receptive communication skills, he understood everything said to and about him.

Yeah, yeah.

And all nonverbal communicators do, right? So I really worked hard with the families who, who didn't believe that because everyone else in their support system, chosen support system, told them that they couldn't. Just like the neurologist told us from across the room after Spencer's one MRI, everything that he wasn't going to do and how short his life was going to be.

Yeah.

And we never went back. We never went back. We never had a need to go back because that's pretty much what I said is, okay, we're going to be healthy because there's no reason to be in this world if we're healthy. And that's, that's exactly how we lived his life.

Yeah.

And so that was, that was definitely a big part of what I wanted to do with that therapy center was to really work with the people who had the nonverbal communicators in their family because they have a lot to teach.

Yeah. You know, it's really interesting that you use the word watchers and you talked about, you know, I think, I think that my experience has been that the people that come in with those big challenges. They are higher, higher beings. They are higher evolved. And it's exactly the opposite of the way that we would look at them from this perspective. But I, as I'm talking to you, I have a friend whose son was diagnosed, I believe, at the age of 2 with lissencephaly. And he was never able to speak, never able to walk. And they said he'd live for, I don't know, maybe 3 or 4. And Willie made it to like 11. But the impact that he had on the family the way that they grew and everything, you know, it's like they're ambassadors. These kids are ambassadors, you know, that are here to teach us if we're willing to listen and to learn. So I think it's amazing that you— and I love what you said, I really caught it when you said he chose his people well, because we know about spirit guides and stuff, but we also have our earthly team. We have the people around us to support us on that mission. Especially such a difficult one.

Agreed. Agreed. And he tells stories in his book. He tells stories on a lot of his people too, because as a nonverbal communicator, it was so interesting because people thought their secrets were safe with Spencer. And they weren't. He told me everything. And then the next day, you know, if it was an employee, the next day when they came to work, we— I would let them know, oh, guess what Spencer told me, or you did this yesterday, huh? Or you forgot to do that yesterday. Or—

and this is before he transitioned?

Yes.

Oh, wow. Okay.

Yes. Oh, yeah. Bedtime, especially those last 7 years, because it was our, our interrelatedness. Connected, connected. Let me see. The— I think, I think his— because he uses all these two-word terms, connected, interrelatedness, and it's just so, so deep. And it's, it's symbiotic, you know, because it's him to me and me to him. But yeah, so those— when he couldn't make any sound, and there were a lot of things that he wanted, you know, to say throughout the day, and I would be in my office and he would be with his attendant, and then different attendants had different levels of understanding. And, and not all of them totally got it, but, but they were still there, you know, people would think, oh, I'm going to come do this job. And this is, this is, you know, me giving and then they would find out that they were receiving, they were learning, they were learning from Spencer. So it was, it was interesting. Another, another term that he uses is when he left and he received freedom. He says that, that, that freedom was connected freedom. And if you just spend a moment really considering what connected freedom means, it's what we have with all of our loved ones who have transitioned. They are free, but still connected to us. And what they want is for us to be free and still be connected to them. And that's, that's what I'm now— I'm teaching a few people that. I'm not, I'm not really saying that that's what I'm doing. I mean, I am admitting that I am an oracle. I do have this ability to speak. But the really cool thing is, and Spencer told me this a long time ago when he was talking me into staying, because I did not want to stay after he left. He was talking me into staying here on, you know, in this Earth suit and, you know, continue this work at this new level. One of the most important things was his connection to others on the spirit side. He told me that he would bring certain ones of them to me to connect with me on the Earth side. And together, he and I would build bridges for people to be able to connect with their loved ones. So he keeps somebody over there, a spirit friend of his finds him, and the two of them figure out a way to find me. And then somehow their parent or their loved one finds me.

Yeah.

So those two from the spirit side and me and whoever this person is from this side, I make it clear first session. I'm not a medium. That is not what I do. I never will. But if I hear a message, and if this is what's going on, if this is someone that Spencer has collaborated with on the spirit side to find me, to find you, then we're going to build a bridge and you're going to be connected because no one knows your loved one and all of the intricacies of your intimate relationship with them better than you. You don't need me to tell you anything about your loved one on that side. You know everything. But I can help you open up and listen to it.

You use the term oracle, and I know some people may not be familiar with that term. What is, what is an oracle? Does that mean?

Oh, we know things. We all know things. And being an oracle is just knowing that you know things and then speaking what you know. And it's one of Spencer's spinspirations. That's how he first started communicating with me when he crossed over. And I would get these clear messages. And I knew it's like, gosh, I know that. I know that you Spencer, and I started writing them down. And the very first one was, if you were meant to look back, your head would turn that way. And I thought, whoa, yeah, because yeah, we can't, we have to continue to look forward. And when he, when he gave me that inspiration, His Mayan spirit animal was an owl. So he also gave me a visual of him with his wings spread as an owl and turned his head around backwards.

Oh, wow.

I said, show off. Because yeah, because he can. And the point was, you know, don't look back because your head does not turn that way. Look forward. So another one of his inspirations that he says in his book is there are things you think you know, and there are things you feel you know. And then there are things you know, you know. And there are things we all know, we know. And everyone is an oracle when, when we tap into those things, and are not afraid to share them. It's just the inner knowing. It's that soul knowing and learning to communicate and listen to your own soul. Which is whatever you want to call it, your highest being, your higher being, your higher self, your soul self. Everybody plays with all these different terms for all these different things, which again, it just confuses people. And, and then people have lost the ability to discern. And when you remember how to discern, the answer is connect with self, because the highest self knows that it's here. You know, that's what the soul— the soul is here with the soul purpose. And the being is here, the mind is here with the purpose. And that's been the priority for all these years. The ego, you know, is told or programmed to do what it's here to do. And in the end, that's kind of nonsense, because we aren't here to do what we came here to do. We're here to be who we came here to be.

Yeah.

And if we would just reverse that, and focus on that from day one, a baby is born and start asking the question, what have you come here to be? Who have you come here to be? And nurture— if we would nurture our children in that way, and listen to them and, and help them find out who they came here to be. I think it'd be a lot easier path for most people.

Yeah, well, speaking of that, that gets around to something else I want to go back to, because we've talked a lot about Spencer and Spencer's purpose. And that's wonderful. But as a parent, when our child transitions, especially I think when they're young, or in your case, 23 years of like, this is my purpose, is serving this child, and then they're no longer here. Talk about what that feels like.

Yeah, it was— it did not feel good. It did not feel— I was completely lost. I was— I had— I did not know my purpose because I thought that he was my purpose. And then there wasn't one after he left. And it took a while for the soul purpose to evolve. And it was during that time, I now in my work, I've actually created— and I created this in March of 2020— my signature program that I work with clients with, I call Journey Back to Me. And Journey Back to Me is what I created from traveling my own journey back to me in 2019. Spencer left February 8th, 2019. And when he left, there was this cascade of just horrible experiences in my life the entire year. I mean, just unheard of. It was just beating me down, beating me down, beating me down. How? Why? Why? You know, wasn't this enough? Losing a child is enough. So I was barely in existence. And where I went to, to decide if I wanted to continue, if I could continue, I ended up in a very small third world country doing a lot of hiking and climbing in caves. And the caves were in the Mayan mountains. And I learned a lot in those caves in the Mayan mountains, because the Mayans did their ceremonies, and they had a different opinion of death and dying and the skulls, the bones, everything are in there. And I realized after about 6 months of that, that I was taking the journey back to me, because I kept, I kept hearing that I kept hearing and being told that I needed to journey back to me, that that was my, that was now my purpose was to figure out why I was still here. And that, that involved taking the journey back to me.

Yeah.

So yeah, I actually created that program. I decided to stay. This, this was part of that was this tattoo on my fingers. It says Gaia. And when my hand is on the ground, and I'm doing my yoga, my yoga practice every morning, that is facing me. So that's my reminder that I am to stay here. And yeah, it took— it was— I couldn't ignore it. Because I would like ask my spirit guides and guards, you need to write this on the wall, you know, I'd play dents, and they would, they would write it on the wall or write it on my fingers where there was no ignoring it. So creating this work and then figuring out how to support others, you know, well, that, that's why we have the experiences we have. I know you have had the experience, and it's healing for you to offer yourself in service to others and to listen to others, because we don't get to tell our stories that often. We, the, the the crime that was done with the, with the religion teaching grief as a few-week process. As if, you know, we're supposed to bury our grief with our child, or, you know, it's over when the casseroles stop coming. And we should get over it, get on. It's all, it's all a bunch of bullshit. And it doesn't do anybody any good. You cannot You cannot rush the process of grief. And you call your show Grief to Growth. I love that because we have to grow. I, what I do with people, I offer them, we're going to transform grief to grace. And what is grace? Great. Grace is, is, is complete understanding and innerstanding and acceptance of all Oh, how can I possibly accept that I lost a child? It's not right. It's out of order. It's all these things. And it is, it's, it's all those things are really, really hard. But grief is the greatest teacher. Because the moment, you know, the moment you get that call, or the moment you— I'm holding Spencer when he takes his last breath. Not right. You hold them when they take their first, but you're not supposed to hold them when they take their last. It's out of order. And it's so hard to process. But you know, you process it in your heart. And when you can, when you can hear them whisper and let you know, and it's an emotional message, let you know, this is their sole purpose, and stay connected. They may be gone in body, but stay connected, because that connection is, is right here. And we may go through life and lose all the connections to our heart.

Yeah.

And but you can't lose that one, can you?

Yeah. Well, one of the things I love about this conversation with you is this interconnected purpose that we have, because we tend to think of things from my perspective. What's my goal, soul's purpose? What's my life's purpose? And then when our child transitions, it's like, how does that fit? We don't think about their purpose. We don't think about the fact that they are a sovereign independent being who may never have spoken or may pass at 15. And we say, oh, what a tragedy, not realizing that was their purpose. And maybe their purpose was to launch us and others. And I've seen, you know, growing up around my daughter, the people that, that she's impacted in just in the 15 years that she was here. So we really need to kind of get over ourselves a little bit and say, how do I fit into this thing as opposed to how does this all revolve around me?

Yeah. And do that in gratitude. Because I think, at least for me, whenever that became really clear to me, that how grateful I was that he chose me, that's a really, really big deal because now what he's able to create, and the same for you, she chose you. Yeah, because she was smart enough to do so. And she knew that, that, that your connection and your ability to, to be in partnership could transcend this physical experience. And when you open that up, and you open yourself up to receiving all there is, you're learning from her now, right? How long has she been gone?

It's, it'll be, it's 9 years, 9 and a half years. So, um, yeah, it's, it is, it's an amazing transformation that we can go through. And this kind of leads back to when, when we first started talking and I asked you, you know, where you are, and you said, I'm in, I'm in Texas, but I live in Mexico now. So your work is taking you, and we've talked a little bit about your work, but talk about what you're doing in Mexico.

Yeah, um, moving there, it's a completely different world, it's a completely different pace. And, and what I, what I knew, because I listened, I knew what I was to do was to find a house in the mountains. And because I'd been doing my Journey Back to Me program since 2020, and I was told if I would create this center, I could actually have people who are wanting to do the Journey Back to Me— it's a 40-day program. So those people can actually come to me and be with me in my home for a 5-day retreat. And during that 5-day retreat, we, we completely focus on healing the emotional wounds. Because our emotional wounds are what is holding us back. We've been so programmed to not feel emotions and to ignore emotions and bypass emotions and tell them later and all of those things. So you have something like a grief experience show up in your life, losing a child. There's, there's no wall that can hold that back, not for very long. And it collapses you, but it collapses you. And the first thing that it reminds you is you do care. I don't care how busy you are. I don't care how important you are. I don't care how disconnected you are. You get the, you get the message that, that you, that you lost a child. It's, it's, it brings you right back to, to the humanity of it, because the emotional cascade cannot be stopped.

Yeah.

And that's what it's meant to do. So, so being able to have people come for the first 5 days of their 40-day journey back to me is very healing because we spend 5 days at all the things I've created at this property, really walking through the fire of those emotions. And it's, it's been a really beautiful experience because it's not easy, but it's so worth it. Because after the first 5 days, then they go home and I continue to support them because so many retreats, people go and have life-changing experiences and they do these different ceremonies like, like we do at my retreat center, and then they go home and the effectiveness wears off. So with My Journey Back to Me, I continue the program online like I've done it since 2020. So they get all the support and all the therapies. We do several therapies. I— emotional wounds is my specialty. So Emotion Code is one of my modalities, and biofield tuning, using tuning forks in the field to clear trapped emotions, is another. And I've been a mental health counselor for 40 years. 40 years. And I've now realized that, that emotional health is the most important thing.

Yes, absolutely.

There is no mental health without emotional health.

Yeah.

But we have just done all of this work to pretend like it doesn't matter and to keep that shut down. And that's what's wrong with people. And we can see it in the world when we see the things going on in the world and the chaos and the separation. What people will realize eventually is it's not your separation from everybody else, it's your separation from yourself. And reconnecting, you know, we can find all those wires and reconnect that. And it's very interesting too. I said grief to grace. The property that found me that I was guided to buy in this little community in Mexico was already named Casa Grace.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. So it's, it's there to teach me first and hold me first. So I have a new home with the name that I needed to invite people to come and transform their grief to grace. By, um, by, by working with me. And I'll, I'll offer what I can offer, most of all listening.

Yeah, that's awesome. That is really awesome. Well, we're, we're running out of time, so I want you— we've talked about the book, but remind people of the name of the book, that Spencer's book, um, and where they can find out more about you.

Yeah, this is what— there's a lot of books called Listen to the Silence, I found out when I published this one. So it looks like this. Listen to the Silence. We also have a website for the book that is listen to the silence.org. My website is anywheremindbodysoul.com. And go to my website, go to the contact page, send me a message. That's how people connect with me. I offer everyone a complimentary session. And in that complimentary session, I give everyone an emotion code session. Whether they know about Emotion Code or not. It's a great way for people to experience what 99% of the people say is, I feel lighter. I don't understand, but I feel lighter. Well, isn't lighter better? Because the trapped emotions are heavy and dense, and that's what sucks people down. So these mystical ways of moving that energy are really important for people to receive.

Awesome.

Yeah.

Awesome. It's been such a pleasure getting to know you. Have any, any last messages you want to leave with the audience?

No, the message from Spencer is, is the very first chapter in his book. And this is the most important thing for people to remember. I was going to show you the— yeah. So this is, this is chapter 1. And this is Spencer's— he chose all his pictures for his— yeah. So read what chapter 1 is.

Uh, what is joy? Yeah, awesome.

Yeah, so no matter what, find, find your way to joy. Be in joy every day and, uh, stay connected to, to, to your people.

Yeah. Gina, it's been wonderful getting to know you. Have a great rest of your day.

Thank you, I really appreciate it. You too.

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