His NDE Made Him Wise Beyond His Years- Jacob Cooper

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Hi there, welcome to Grief to Growth Podcast. Your host is Brian D Smith, spiritual seeker, bestselling author, grief survivor, and life coach. Brian believes that the worst tragedies of life provide the greatest opportunity for growth. Brian says he was planted, not buried, and he is here to help you grow where you've been planted by the difficulties in life. In each episode, Brian and his guests will share what has helped them to survive and thrive. It is his sincere hope this episode helps you today.

Hey everybody, this is Brian D Smith back with another episode of Grief 2 Growth. And today I've got with me Jacob Cooper, Jake Cooper. I've had Jake on before. He's a fascinating young man. He's a clinical social worker. He's a certified Reiki master. He's a certified hypnotherapist, and he specializes in past life regression therapy. He works privately with clients through online services. And he's, he's been inspired by his near-death experience and his transform— transformative encounters, I should say. He facilitates spiritual awareness and empowerment through life-changing seminars. He currently resides and practices in Long Island, New York.. And he's the bestselling author of the book Life After Breath, which I have read and I highly recommend. And the recent release we're going to discuss today is called The Wisdom of Jacob's Ladder. So I'm gonna keep his introduction short. I want to just bring Jacob in to start our conversation.

Brian D Smith, MD: Brian, thank you so much. I am so glad and honored to be back here on Grief 2 Growth. I can't tell you how honored and humbled I am to be a return guest here.

Well, I tell you, um, you're— I've done about 250 interviews, I think, now, and there are a few that really stand out to me, and yours, yours is one of them. Your story is fascinating. You're a fascinating person. I love what you're doing in the world. Uh, so let's start by telling people a little about who you are and what led you, what put you on the path that you're on.

Yeah, well, thank you. That, that means a lot. I know you've had some incredible, fascinating guests, um, so thank you. Uh, keep it up. But I mean, a little bit about myself. I know you mentioned my books. I wrote, you know, my first two books really about my near-death experience that happened at just the young age of 3 years old. And I'm sure on Grief to Growth, we've had near-death experiencers on, but I'm in a different position because mine happened at such a young age. I was only 3 years old as a, as a young infant. So, you know, it comes with a great deal of questions, which sparks curiosity and expanded viewpoints of consciousness consciousness. But for me, at least, it's, it's been a double-edged sword, to say the least, you know, having that great euphoria that I had in my NDE, but also having quite a complex trajectory, you know, in my life where I just recognized, hey, you know, as a kid, you're kind of getting, you know, adjusted to being a kid, and you're just learning how to be a kid. And all of a sudden, I recognize I'm not a kid, I'm experiencing myself as a kid. But there's, there's a beyond the you. There's a world beyond this world, and there's a life— there's a life beyond this life. And so to have that awareness and then to just come back into reality at such a young childhood age, that's quite a complicated and difficult, uh, experience. But I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Yeah, I mean, and that's, that's a really good point, because I think there's a reason why we have the veil. We come in and we forget, and a lot of us say it'd be great if we could remember, but I know that, that remembrance at that early of an age presents a special set of challenges. I know Ingrid Honkala talks about it a lot. I think she was 2 when she had her experience.

She, she, she, she could always one-up me in anything. She's awesome.

Well, well, it's— and as I said, reading your book and knowing— and I know your story, but I— for the people who haven't heard your story before, tell people a little bit about your, your experience.

Yeah, you know, September of 1993, I went to a playground or, you know, inside of a park. And at the time, I didn't know it, but I had something called pertussis, otherwise known as whooping cough. And so for those unfamiliar, for infants, children, you know, and even adults, whooping cough could be fatal if left untreated. You know, it's quite serious. So I had this, you know, cough when I went to the park, and I just, you know, climbed up into a ladder onto a slide. And due to whooping cough, I, you know, suffocated as a result of this cough. And, you know, it was the most traumatizing moment of my life. I don't want to shed that lightly. Losing your breath and suffocating was incredibly scary. And kind of like, if you're familiar with Eben Alexander, I was just kind of put in this period of, like, turmoil, this incubation period of turmoil where I wasn't crossed over and I was still, you know, experiencing this intense torture and pain of not being able to breathe. But then I was able to let go, you know, of suffering, I was able to let go, you know, of my suffocation. And I found and remembered deep within that was that there was a breath beyond the human breath. And that is the breath of eternity, the breath of creation that we are forever connected to that. And so once I surrendered from that pain, I was able to transcend the pain and really have a profound crossing over experience. You know, this experience, you know, encompassed, you know, encounters with my own spiritual guides. It encompassed awareness of, you know, an infinite amount of angels that I was able to see right literally in front of me in the playground. I was aware of, you know, the term or the vernacular is God, but I can't— I'd have to say that's quite a, you know, you can't put a label on it. And, you know, there's a Christ consciousness that I had, which, again, rare, given my background, which we'll get into a little bit, awareness of what I would do in this lifetime, awareness of past lifetimes, encounters with my soul family. So it was profound, in a sense, but also not really, because it was quite a familiar place, a place, at least to me, where I was always connected to directly or indirectly, you know, even, you know, at that young age, but it was just to me a return to home, you know, the dwelling of my own soul and a place where we could walk many miles, but we're always connected, you know, deep within the doré of a heart. Yeah, please.

So, yeah, I'm just trying to imagine what that would be like at 3, because at that age, I would say kids are not even fully here. You're still like half there and half here. Like, it sounded like it was very familiar when you went back.

Right. You know, in one sense, like, I hear near-death experiencers, there is an incubation period that happens at times when you cross over. It's an adjustment period. I mean, think about it, you're living X amount of time as a human being, and all of a sudden, you just abruptly cross over. It takes time for some to get familiar with, some automatically, you know, just go right into it. But, you know, it takes time to kind of process. We still, carry our own awareness, our own consciousness. And so the scenery around us changes, and so we're able to adapt to it and become it, not separate from it. But yeah, I mean, in one sense, it was easier, right? I was less kind of programmed, if you will, or there was less forgetfulness. But I want to preface that two things could be true at the same time. I always try to say this as a therapist, we live in a very, you know, unidimensional world where we see one thing as true, you know, there could be multiple truths. So there was a part of myself that was connected to the ego, you know, to the 3-year-old experience of myself, but then there was an awareness that went far beyond that. And that was the eyes and windows of my soul that was experienced this, which went beyond chronological age. So I think we're— we experience ourselves in different cultures and ages and races and, and lifetimes. And those are experiences, but those aren't the full totality of who we are. Those are experiences.

Yeah, you know, you just brought something that's really interesting, because we think of ourselves again, as the age we are, right? I think of myself as 60 years old, or in the 30s, right? But when we cross back over, when you're a child, how does What's that perception like? Stay with us.

We'll be right back.

You know, one of the hardest things about grief? Most of the people in your life just don't get it. They want you to be further along than you are. They get uncomfortable when you bring it up. So you stop bringing it up. And that's why I started writing. My Substack is where I go deeper. Thoughts I don't always get to on the podcast. Essays on consciousness, on continuing bonds, on what it actually means to carry loss and still build a life. The stuff that used to keep me up at night, written out in a way that I hope meets you in the morning. But here's what I didn't expect when I started it: the community that showed up. People who are doing exactly what you're doing— listening, learning, trying to find their footing. Readers who comment, who share their own stories, who remind each other that none of us are as alone in this as we feel. And that's what the Substack has become— a place to go deeper with me and to find your people. It's free to subscribe. Find me at grief2growth.com/substack. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/substack. Or just go to Substack and search for Grief to Growth. I hope to see you there.

You know, I think we could— I think the word is like, is it transmutate or transmigrate, whatever. But I think we, you know, like, for instance, in evidential mediumship readings, right, you know, loved ones will come over how they either want to show themselves or how we remember them. But we're not stuck with that one particular, you know, age. I think we're timeless, ageless beings that goes beyond that. So, you know, to others, we could manipulate or just kind of— not manipulate, but just kind of represent ourselves in different ways that they would understand or that we would want to be shown. But we're not just one page of the book that we're currently reading, we're an entire encyclopedia.

Yeah, yeah.

But I think what's important though is to allow yourself to have both that awareness that Yes, there's a greater part of myself. But I'm also here to do this human thing too, and to be present in my life where I'm at, not, not to be enslaved by it, but to be informed by some of those conditions and to allow yourself to work through and work with and make friends with yourself in this life.

Yeah, so, so as, as a 3-year-old, and you have this, you have this incredible experience, I just want to, again, share some of your stuff for people who haven't heard it before. How did that— what was it like coming back? And did you— were you able to even tell people about it?

You know, I learned something new every day, not just for myself. I mean, the, you know, the scenes are exactly the same, right? But, you know, as we, I guess, evolve or time elapses, you're able to find more meaning from experience to degree, you know, the trauma settles down and you're able to process more. Just last year, my father, who's also, you know, a mental health therapist and a clinical therapist, who, you know, is not one of these woo-woo guys, right? He's probably my— I mean, I'm my biggest skeptic, but he might be my second one. It's just, we come from a very analytical, left-brained kind of family. But, you know, he said, you know, sure, and I'll take credit for this, but I'm paraphrasing. But he said, shortly after you had your near-death experience, I came to him point blank. And I said, remember that day, you know, at the at the park when I went to the hospital and stuff like that, you know, something profound happened. I can't explain it now. It won't make sense to you now either. So I won't try, but one day it will. And my dad isn't one to ever stretch, you know, any truth. It's like, whatever you see is what you get. Like, he's not like one of these guys, you know, you know, and I love him. But, you know, he'll quit, you know, tit for tat, I'll tell you what exactly it was. So the point I'm trying to make is, I, it wasn't like I was shouting off the rooftops, like the kid from Heaven Is for Real, saying I had an NDE, right? I kept it very close within, you know, and the reason is, is I just think the vernacular wasn't there to properly express it. But also, it was for myself to process so I could give it over to others. I mean, I would say we think that we're one, or we say we're one, So what does this— what does that exactly mean? Oneness isn't sameness, but oneness means, at least for my NDE, that we're brothers and sisters keeper here in God's playground, much like when I had my NDE in a playground. And so my NDE wasn't just about me, but it was really something that was to be expressed through me to other people. It wasn't really so much about me to a degree. Yeah. But, but within childhood, it was quite complex due to the traumatic brain injury that I had. Due to suffocation. You know, my brain literally snapped in half at that time when I, you know, suffocated, I felt a large crack. And once, you know, my brain was open, that's when I was able to really cross over and experience the other side. And so I know there's the same— the brain cracks open, God comes in, and that literally happened to me. And so, so from having that experience, my brain was very open. You know, my pineal gland was very open. And so I was able to have a lot of experiences in the other realm and have interdimensional awareness throughout, you know, my childhood. But at a certain point, it became very much of a nuisance. And I just kind of more so pushed it away. And it was just more of an annoying annoyance kind of thing. Because it's not saying you would just go around saying, I'm psychic, I'm intuitive, you just would see things, hear things, know things, you're just like, get these things away from me. I just want to live a life, you know?

Yeah.

So it was kind of annoying.

Yeah, that's— and I think that's— I know it's a very normal response. And I know children have NDEs. And again, us who haven't had NDEs, a lot of times we'll be jealous, right? It's like, I wish I had this, right? People don't realize that it can take decades to integrate these experiences. For children, it could take, you know, multiple decades.

I don't want to sugarcoat it. And that was really the impetus. And we'll get into a little bit of writing my second book, The Wisdom of Jacob's Ladder, is, you know, you don't have to suffer or go through NDEs to have that awareness. I think people tune into these things because there's a part of themselves that has some degree of recall with what you're saying, you know, and there's a remembrance, otherwise people wouldn't tune in. And sometimes people could be skeptical or push things away, you know, and that's, you know, at times defense, but they're still presently tuning in because there's a part of them that, you know, is able to remember what you're saying. And, you know, all we do is just tap people on the shoulder and just have a gentle reminder that you're more than you think. Yeah. Yeah.

So how did this, how did this impact your childhood, your teenage years, these experiences and the abilities that you had?

I wish I had my parents here because what I'll say is, you know, in every family you have this, yes, but I was we ate the same food, we had the same home, we had everything, but I was by far the biggest outlier, you know, within my family. And sure, there's always the black sheep, and sometimes the black sheep ends up being the goat, right? No, but, you know, but I like that saying. But I was definitely a complicated kid. And I think trauma had a lot to do with it. You know, just the inability to put into words what I had. And just this kind of period of suffocation that not only lasted in my NDE, but also in my frustration with this experience that I had that I wasn't ready or able to just express to other people in the way that I wanted to, you know, and so just, you know, when I was lying lifeless on the floor, and people were just seeing my body and calling me out to wake up when I suffocated, it kind of felt like that to a degree too, where people were looking at me, for my body as a young infant. And they were just seeing me with, with the physical eyes. But I knew that I was more than just this infant or this child. I was, you know, a timeless soul. And this wasn't the full totality of who I was. And so having that recollection made it a lot harder to just kind of fit in or just play the game, if you will, just kind of taking, you know, taking the pill, and all of a sudden, it's hard to just come back. So it was quite complicated. I mean, I mean, I started in a, you know, it's very empowering, but, but I started therapy at 10 years old. And I've been doing it ever since. But, and that's really why, you know, in a way, I became one just to give back what I was given in many ways. But I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I wouldn't. It's not for, it's not for— I think really a lot has to do with it with, with your life chart. And the pre-plan of your life. I really think that this is something so profound that it has to be selected, you know, by the higher intelligence on the other side. It's not just a random experience that anyone could have. I think, you know, it's something that's charted and contracted, you know, in the pre-birth planning. Definitely.

You actually just, you just answered my next question, because I was gonna ask you how you felt about pre-birth planning and whether these things are planned or random. I believe NDEs are customized. They're, they're for certain people. It's, they're universal in the sense that we can all learn from them. But I think you're right. I don't think, I don't think everybody can handle having one because they're really, really hard.

No. And everyone wants them. And some people want self-induced NDEs after I talk. And I just have to, you know, I, I hear them. They want you know, that, but, you know, not everyone is willing to die to get to heaven and come back. Everyone wants to go to heaven, right? But not everyone wants to, you know, is able to go through that, that pain or that suffering to get there. That's, you know, it's true. Everyone wants to get to the top of the mountain. But, you know, to go through all that turmoil and experience that I had, not just in suffocating, but, you know, having it when I did, it's, it's not for everyone to handle. But I definitely view that there is a higher intelligence that is beyond this lifetime, that nothing is random, and the most profound moments of our life definitely have chart and higher intelligence from the higher realms behind them. Sometimes we think this life is just a random experience and we experience suffering. It could just be like an endless, bottomless pit of just no rhyme or reason, But, you know, I think when you're able to trust that there's more that meets the surface, and there's a purpose behind anything, you know, especially even suffering, you know, that, that you're able to have more of a guided life and trust life a bit more. But in my NDE, yes, I had that awareness. But I also had awareness after that, where I just kept on having recurring dreams of remembering you know, just my life, you know, kind of like a little bit of the pre-birth planning, you know, like you hear from what's the same, like Rob Schwartz talks a little bit about it, but like the pre-birth planning, and I would just have the same recurring image and, and dream and vision of my life charted before I was here. And so, yes, I do believe that. And at least for me, my NDE, I think, is very closely related to a past life. You know, and I know it's a very sensitive topic, because we all are to some degree affected by this on a personal, you know, or community or macro basis. But, you know, I'm not going to say I committed, because you don't commit cancer, you don't commit a heart attack. But I say I had a death by suicide in my last lifetime, you know, and that was, that's been read evidentially by different intuitives prior to me getting any way public or saying anything about this. And the same description happened from a couple different people. But, you know, in that lifetime, I am able to understand some of the clients that I help as a mental health therapist, but I just basically had my back against the wall, and I saw no hope in my situation. I just remember, you know, taking my own life and— well, my own body can never take a life. But, you know, I just made that decision. And I wasn't judged or condemned or anything like that. But I saw the NDE as something related to that, because I had a similar feeling of just endless suffering. There's no hope, there was no, you know, any way out. So instead of holding on to the suffering, I allowed myself to surrender to a greater force within myself and around myself. And that saved my life in this lifetime through surrendering. And it's my hope that others will see surrender as not throwing the white flag, but a great strength, you know, of empowerment and help in your life.

Yeah, could you talk a little bit more about that? Because I just recently heard someone else say that, that because we think of surrender as giving up, as giving over your power to something else. So how did you see surrender?

I think surrender is giving into your power. You know, we have a strength within us beyond our pain. And who we are transcends pains. I think what's, what's inside of us is infinitely greater than the challenges that we meet in front of us. I mean, I think problems and challenges, you know, have their timeframes, no matter how tumultuous they are, they don't last forever, but we do. And so there's a part of us that could transcend that. But there's also a love inside of us and around us through loved ones on the other side, through the wisdom that we're capable of having, and through Earth Angels here on, on this earth plane. I think everyone wants to walk 1,000 miles, you know, in a monastery to find God, and you can. But sometimes we forget that we could find God in the most unlikely places, and they could be just our neighbors or loved ones, you know, we just don't— sometimes we forget how special our situations are, the people around us are. We take that sometimes for granted, or we don't know how much our loved ones could be capable of. It could be the opposite's true. But, you know, there's a lot more love around us that sometimes we gloss over in this life, I think.

Yeah. So you mentioned soul planning. And I think you mentioned in your NDE, you did you get some glimpses of what your life events were going to be coming up?

I had awareness that you know, not just of past lives and having reviews of those lifetimes to understand the significance of some of those lifetimes with this lifetime. But I was able to have awareness of what I would be doing in this life, you know, and I saw myself not just like some pompous speaker in front of people thinking like I'm better than them, whatever, but rather, I was just a facilitator of a message. I was just, you know, there, but it was more about the message. It wasn't really so much about me, but really delivering this message and to see the change on others. And so in that moment, I recognized that the other side will always be there. But this unique opportunity to give what I experienced to other people is not always there. So to not have to wait to get there, but to allow people, you know, to live their truth and to forever connect to it in this lifetime, bringing the hereafter to the here now. It was really bringing heaven on earth to other people. And that's what near-death experiences can do. We literally bring heaven into this life through our experiences and through our stories that we tell other people.

Yeah, it's, it's a, you know, I'm still wrapping my head around it. And, you know, I think a lot of people look at this, this earth as random. Suffering, right? It doesn't make any sense. There's, there's no guidance, there's no loved one, nobody cares about me. And I'm starting to realize there's like these people on the— are beings on the other side that are very involved in our lives and are very involved in guiding us. Is that true?

Absolutely. I mean, through having my near-death experience, that's absolutely true. You know, but I love the Albert Einstein reference where he said, you know, kind of paraphrasing, but is the universe a giving and loving place? Is the universe an ambivalent place? Or is the universe working against us? So our ability to formulate a box of a viewpoint of the universe will really influence the lives that we live. Because in a sense, life is filled with suffering, but there's a life beyond suffering, and it's not just all that meets the surface. And there's purposes, even for the most tumultuous, painful situations. And sometimes we're not privy to that even in this lifetime. But I think one day, it makes sense. And so I think learning how to trust that, you know, our own uncertainties— beyond our own uncertainties, there are answers, there are reasons, and we're able to trust an intelligence maybe greater than our own at the moment. So it doesn't mean that we agree with it in the moment. But it means that we're able to have a cushion that says, alright, this, there's something to this, I trust. So, you know, I think faith is not the absence of turmoil, but the ability to persevere even with it. So I think it allows yourself to have those human feelings, but also your ability to transcend those feelings and to trust, you know, in something else as well beyond that as well.

Yeah, absolutely. And I've, I've said, I'm coming to this conclusion more and more that probably the most important thing is that view we have, excuse me, the view we have of the universe, the view we have of ourselves, our purpose, you know, because people will say, when you tell people, okay, well, you decided to come here, right? And you decided to have some of these events, the first answer is always like, I would never decide to do this. This is— why would I do this?

Yeah. And again, it's very Buddhist-y, but I use it as a therapist. And I'm sure you do this with a client. You know, much of life has to do with perception, very little of it has to do with actually what's happening in the outside world. And so just utilizing cognitive reframing, or, you know, like the wise mind kind of thing, where we have one portrayal towards what's happening. We process it on a raw human level, you know, but then we're able to just see, okay, what's the high road with this? What's a pathway to see this through another viewpoint? And we understanding reality is just how we view it and see and what we are able to allow ourselves to see, you know, because I don't know about you, but we've lived on this planet, you know, a bit of time, and this planet could feel like a totally different planet when you have a different state of awareness, um, you know. And when you just are able to have a different experience, you have to have a totally different experience based off your level of consciousness on this planet and what gear you're tapping into while you're living here.

Yeah, absolutely. And I— that's something that I've come to more and more realization. I mean, you could see two people looking at the same thing and We can see whenever we do opinion polls, is the country going in the right direction, is the country going in the right and the wrong direction? The facts are the same, you know, right? But it's how people perceive them, is what people choose to focus on. Um, and as humans, I think we tend to focus on the negative. I think that's a natural part of being a human being.

Yeah, no, that's true. I mean, because, I mean, in a sense though, we've been disempowered. And not to knock the education system, yeah, I think it has its its place and purpose. But we've been taught in a way that, that regurgitation in a way is more important than integration of imagination, that answers were found, you know, outside of us, through our left brains versus sitting within and finding, you know, clarity and wisdom. So, you know, I think in a way, we've been born to be reliant on external stuff. And when the external stuff isn't working out, then people don't know what to do. So a lot of people are governed by living outside in, in their lives, versus tapping into the inside to influence the outside.

Yeah, very, very much so. And that's, that's what the perspective that you bring— there's a perspective that the NDE bring flips on its head, that the true reality is actually within us, and everything that we perceive is temporary, right? I hesitate to use the word illusion because it's real because we perceive it as real, but it's not permanent and it's not fundamental.

Oh, sure. You know, it's very real in the moment, you know, but it passes, right? You know, and this transcends it. But it's, it's hard because, yeah, just a lot of people will start to internalize how the world sees them. You know, they were given names, were given ages, and the world just sees them as blank canvases in a way, and just on the surface. And so people kind of push away this deep wisdom they had inside themselves, and they hold on to, you know, this surface kind of viewpoint of themselves and the world. And they kind of hold on to that within their own ego. And that's, that's an issue. And I think there's a forgetfulness of ourselves as spiritual beings, and we just hold on to the human part and our experiences in this life and our stories. So, you know, I think real empowerment comes from not, you know, our life stories, but our ability to define our life stories. Yeah, what we decide to do. And that was my exact goal in the Wisdom Jacob's Ladder, where what happened to me was something that I walked into, but I walked what I walk out with of it is in my control. You know, and so not to be defined by the story, but to define the story. And I know so many listeners and yourself are doing that, where we have these experiences, and those could easily define us. And at times they, they will, but we decide to find meaning at a time, you know, from those experiences and, and value and wisdom, you know, right? Moments.

So talk about The Wisdom of Jacob's Ladder. Tell me more about the book.

Yes, the book was released, and I didn't intend to release it on this day, but, you know, a little bit about myself for those who aren't aware is I do come from an Orthodox Jewish family. And certainly, if I look at a family picture, probably half of my family was killed in the Holocaust. And my book happened to come on Holocaust Remembrance Day. And if you're familiar with, you know, the Holocaust, they had days where they would just burn any book written by someone who was Jewish or any thought leader who I guess went against the regime. And so less than 100 years later, to be a Jewish person and to have a book come out on that day, was profound. It just was very allegorical for the near-death experience. Like, there could be death, but there's transcendence of it. There's transcendence of darkness, and life has a way of continuing and going on, you know, and stories will be told, but we just have to remember it. Much like the Holocaust, never forget. I think with significant moments in our life, never forget those too. Never forget who you are, where you come, where you came from, what you're connected to. Always remember that part of you. And the world could try to take that away or rip that away. But, you know, we're the authors of our own life. And I think God created us because God loves stories.

Yeah.

And so that, that's a quote by Eli Wiesel, who's a Holocaust survivor. And, you know, so that's really why I wrote this book is, you know, is within the power of story and how this story could hopefully help out others. But really, Life After Breath was more of my karma. That was the story of my NDE, where the wisdom of Jacob's Ladder is a part of my dharma, the meaning, the message, the essence, you know, how we could relate that experience, you know, into this life. And so that's where I really had to roll up my sleeves and sweat. I mean, I could rattle off what happened to me, that's easy. But, you know, sitting within this and processing, that's where the real work lies. And so I named it that title, not— it sounds a little bit pompous, I hear that, but it's not. It really is more of a homage, you know, to biblical Jacob. And biblical Jacob, I think your name tells you not just who you are, but a little bit of your potential to some degree. And, you know, biblical Jacob, who, you know, my name comes from originally, you know, had a dream when death was chasing him or his brother Esau was chasing him. Do the covenant and stuff like that. And Jacob rested in a place called Bethel or Beit El or the house of God, which is a place that I've been to. And when he was resting from fleeing for his life, he had a dream of the angels running up and down the ladder and was eventually able to wrestle the angel of death, so to speak, and he transcended and became Israel. You know, it overcame his demons in a way. So I think for me, at least, that's something that I could relate to with my name, you know, certainly, you know, death was running after me, but I was able to write back, you know, I was able to tap into something deeper. And I recognized, you know, death is something temporary, but life is eternal. And I remembered that right when the darkness was coming my way. And I was able to see the light, especially with you know, past the darkness.

Yeah, that's beautiful. That's really well said. I appreciate your humility. But you said before we started recording, you said, I don't feel like I wrote this book. So explain that.

Yeah, I mean, you know, I think everything happens for a reason. But Brian D Smith, I mean, I started community college locally, and I was in the lowest possible non-credited classes for writing and reading in community college. And I was the most pissed off, angered student because I just knew that this wasn't me, that I had more inside of myself. So I was able to use that anger and I just wrote and wrote and read and wrote. But I was lucky to have someone in my first semester of community college who read my writing You know, and she herself was a teacher for what's his name? Is it something Feliciano? He wrote that song Feliz Navidad.

José Feliciano.

José Feliciano. Yeah, she was, she was a teacher for the visually impaired and he was one of her students.

Wow.

So she was into all this stuff, right? But she literally helped the people who could, you know, those who are visually impaired to see, but she did that in a metaphorical way too. She helped others see what they weren't seeing in their lives or maybe tapping into unseen worlds. So she was my definite guide. And she just looked at one of my writings and says, you're a damn good writer. I'm like, well, the outside world isn't saying that. But, you know, just because other people are seeing limitations, you know, that speaks very— that's more about them and what they're missing out on. You know, that has nothing to do with you. And I think it's true with all of us. If the world is seeing us through a limited lens. It has nothing to do with the real you. The real you is unlimited. It's beautiful. It's brilliant. It's not measurable and quantified, you know, quantified. I mean, you could do that academically, but that's not the totality of what's inside of us. That's a small part that they're looking for, for you to fit into what they're asking for, you know. So from having that belief, you know, that, in a sense that, you know, I wasn't this kind of limited, dumb kid, but that I was unlimited, made my life unlimited. You know, when you see things that are impossible, things will be impossible. When you see things are doable or possible, they will be. Whatever you think, you're right. So, but I think it goes again with the power of belief and how, you know, for seeing things to be possible or not, and that will influence your life. So, yeah, Without her, right, this book wouldn't have been written, or so many people before me. So yeah, my name's on it, but it's more of an ode and a homage to maybe some people who weren't able to write books, or some of my ancestors who, you know, were in concentration camps. And I just wonder about the potential of people who weren't able to tell their story, you know, beyond my ethnic or cultural reference, how many people were afraid to tell their stories or suppressed or weren't allowed to. And so this book is— my books are written for all those who wanted to tell their stories but couldn't, you know.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you mentioned earlier about, you know, it's all being one in a sense. And we talked about we've got these outside influences on the other side that are helping us along. So I, I don't think any of us does anything on our own. No, we— it's— that's, that's an illusion. That's one of the illusions about being here is that we are these autonomous, independent creatures.

Yeah, yeah. You know, it's— we're programmed, especially in our world, it's very capitalistic. And so when someone is down and we get ahead, it's a good thing. But I don't think it works if it works for everyone. And that really coincides with the life that I live and all my belief systems where everyone matters. And it's my hope that COVID taught us that, where it wasn't just someone was sick, and we could just push it away. If it doesn't directly affect us, what does it mean? No, I think in a way, it directly affected all of us. And hopefully, you know, that could lead to— based on your foundation, it could lead to more compassion, more empathy for not seeing others' pain as outside, but something that we're all, you know, joined with. And we all have compassion towards. And so the work that I try to do is for people to really allow themselves to be a part of this world. So much of the world tries to push everything away that doesn't fit their box. And I think the people who are struggling need it the most. And so that's influenced my work as a mental health worker who works very closely with those who might have high risk or those of the LGBTQ+ communities. You know, you know, a lot of the marginalized populations that many news media outlets are just trying to put their foot on their necks or kicking them to the curb. But when you're down, why do you need to be kicked? You need to be heard, you need to be validated, you need to be listened to, you know, not pouring salt on a wound.

So, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, we have this really weird thing going on in our society, because I think so many people, your message, our message, the message resonates with them. They want to believe it. But then they look around them and they see it is competition. There are, you know, shortage of material stuff. And I do have to compete with you. And it is a zero-sum game. If I win, you lose. And so they're like, I want to believe this, but I'm not really, you know, seeing it.

Right. I think we, you know, yeah, we have to understand what this life is about. You know, we're not here forever, but our experiences are, and our meaning is, you know, that lasts. And so it's just a matter of what you view as reality. You know, I think you're here to enjoy this world, but, you know, to be immersed in it, you know, but also to have a ripple effect. That to me has ultimate currency. You know, so I think it depends, but to me it's a means to an end. It's nothing bad of indulging. I mean, look behind me, I have all my fragrances and all that stuff, but that's stuff that keeps me passionate. I think when you're passionate, you invoke the spirit within yourself, the part of you that brings you joy and it uplifts you. But I think some people— and again, it comes down to reality— is reality, you know, finite? Then if it's finite, sure, it's like push everything away. It doesn't have no rhyme or reason, just get ahead, get rich, be selfish, be in your own box, it makes sense. But, you know, is there more than just this life? If you view that, then that will affect your decisions and how you relate to the world and where you— what place you decide to come from. But I think the issue is not just with, you know, finances. I think with a way of life, though, people live that way. You know, if it doesn't directly affect them, they'll push it away, they'll other it, you know, and they'll say it has nothing to do with me, go away, have nothing to do with it. If you're not like me, you know, screw off. That's the way a lot of people are. And I think in a way, like I said before, oneness does not mean sameness. And I think we have diversity so that we could see beyond the surface, we could see the unifying lens, but we could also be more open, you know, universally. And I think we incarnate, you know, in different cultures to expand our soul, to understand what it's like to live as such, what it's in. And I think through different cultures and different lives, it's very expansive. And so that's why I think older souls are more universal. You know, they could go anywhere and people could connect to them because they have, you know, so many lifetimes in other cultures and civilizations that they could connect and find that part of themselves and other people, no matter where they are, no matter what language they relate to them in, their language is love. Yeah, that's universal.

Yeah, well, that's a good point. I really thought about it that way. So you do a lot of past life regressions with people. So what, what purposes that serve remembering past lives? Because most of us don't remember anything about past lives.

That's a good question, Brian. I mean, you know, my near-death experience, like I said before, I just remember that there's so much more than what we are holding on to as reality that is still there, but we at times forget, and sometimes it could trickle down to some degrees at certain points of our life. But, you know, I don't know about you, but what's the number one question that we're asked outside is— outside of what happens when we die, it's, what's my life's purpose? Yeah, you know, I get that all the time. And so for many of us, we've been taught that our, our life's purpose was to get ahead in a way and to make more and to have more things. And that's our purpose, you know, and to be financially stable, and all that is good. But once you understand that you're— that you are not a body experiencing yourself a body, but you're a soul, you understand that this purpose in life goes far beyond the material. You know, this is an experience of our inner being. And so past life regression is a great way for people to really be, I would say, detectives in a way, and to look for clues as to not totally definite, like, this is the one reason why I'm here. But these are possibilities, you know, that we could reference upon that, that resonate within ourselves as to why we're here, what's our purpose. And I don't think purpose is just one thing, like, this is your one, it's not unidimensional, we're multidimensional beings. So No, but I think just for the average person, the purpose is to be present on this journey, you know, to see the little things as the big things, you know, and just to kind of walk into this world without leaving the eyes and ears of God. I think that's in our inner being. And so to look at world through curiosity, through openness, the ability to see beauty beyond the surface, is thinking and acting like God to me, you know, because when I connected to God, God wasn't looking down on me, was looking up at me, and I was looking, you know, with unconditional love and acceptance. And so the more that we do that, the more that we don't have to wait to meet God, the more that we are forever interconnected to it, you know, and it's— remember, that's a part of us that never left us, that's inside of us. So I think our highest, highest self is forever connected to that. But past life regression, I think, is a great way to give back to, especially to those people who want these NDEs or who want those experiences to remind themselves that kind of like the Wizard of Oz, that they had the power inside of themselves the whole time, that they don't have to like go 1,000 miles an hour or to earn, you know, something to get something, that it's always there. I think the interfering part is how we're programmed. Like, you know, it's like we have to sweat and turmoil you know, to get something. But yeah, it's like what Michelangelo would say, just chip away at the masterpiece that's always been there. He said some things that I don't agree with. But yeah, that part is true. Yeah.

Well, you know, it's interesting, because you talked about life purpose. And I'm being a life coach, you know, people will ask me about, let's find our life purpose. And we typically think of things, it's just like the term soul contract. I don't really like that term either, because it sounds so legalistic. And it sounds capitalistic.

Right.

When people think about their life purpose, a lot of times, okay, what am I supposed to do? What's my, what's my living? What's, you know, that kind of stuff. And I think there is a more universal life purpose, as you said, is to experience life, to enjoy, to improve our consciousness.

Right. We're not a human doing, we're a human being.

Yeah.

Right. You know, so I think it's in that beingness, you know, in that presence. You know, living with a mind of the East in a world of the West, right? You know, living with like a sacred awareness and a presence in our life. I think that, you know, is important. But I found the best answer— someone says, what's the meaning of life? And they answered, to give life meaning or to find meaning.

Yeah.

So we're looking for so much meaning outside of ourselves, but I think to me, the greatest meaning of spirituality comes from the lives that we live itself. You know, our experiences, the depth of our experiences, the beauty of our experiences. You know, to me, that's the most— that's the most spiritual thing that we could do, you know, or have in a way.

Yeah. And the more older I get, the more I look around, the more I realize that's all that's going to last, right? As we keep saying, everything else here is temporary. So we get the job, we get the house, we get the whatever, all those things fade away.

Oh, sure. I mean, I think, you know, at times cinema or movies could really speak. I know I referenced The Wizard of Oz, but for people who are really trying to understand what we're vibing to, you know, just watch the movie Big Fish. I don't know if you've ever seen that. I don't think I've seen that. It's a wonderful movie. But I don't want to give the whole movie away, but there's just one scene which, you know, I cry every time, but there's a funeral scene, but then at the funeral, the man sees, they have awareness of all the people that was impacted by this man, and it sees the changes from all the people who were impacted by this man. There's really beautiful music playing and you just are able to understand the ripple effect. And I think that's what this is all about. Like, you just, We just don't know what impact we have, you know, even with a gentle smile. But, you know, in a sense, I think what better praise to say that the world is a better place because you're in it and cannot be the same without you in it too, without you out of it. So, you know, I think that's the purpose is, you know, we're here for a reason. The world can't exist without you in many ways. You know, you make it. We're all part of this unique note in the symphony. Of the universe.

But unique note, Stephanie, that's beautiful analogy. And that's, again, that's why I love— I think that's why NDEs are so popular for people to talk about. My most watched episodes are people that have NDEs, because we all, we hear these universal truths that we want to hold on to, and we want to remember. And we want to know that, you know, even though I'm one of 8 billion people on the planet right now, I do have a unique role. You, you have a unique role. We are touching the people around us. I may not be able to affect all 8 billion people on the planet, but I can have a lot more impact than I think I do.

Undeniably, we sell ourselves short in so many ways with just how we see ourselves, but we just don't know what impact we have or what we mean to people. And so many times, I mean, I myself struggle with this all the time, and I'm in therapy for it. Still to this day, and no shame to it. But we just chop ourselves up like crazy. And we just sometimes don't recognize, like, wow, you know, how much, you know, our words could impact others and how beautiful we can be. And so, you know, right, but I had my NDE, and I was, I was taking my own life away. But I think my duty was to remembering that life is about giving life to others. You know, we were given this great gift for ourselves, not just hold on to, but to let go of. And so when others need that life, you know, we could in our own way, give it to others. And that's, to me, the embodiment of God. We're all creators, with our words, with our actions, you know, and I think we're all artists of the mind, you know, you know, people think of artists as just drawing a picture. But to me, I think we're artists of the mind with how we see the world and what canvas Is it do we want to draw each and every day?

Yeah.

So I think life is really about being an artist of life itself in the mind.

Wow, I love that. I completely agree. I think we're all little fractals of, of God, to use that word, or Creator or Source, whatever word you want to use. We're all made in that. And the Bible says we're made in God's image, and we are all creators. And even though people think of creative, like making art or making music, we're creating lives, we're creating our life, we're creating the lives of people around us. We were in this interactive symphony, right? And I was talking with someone the other day, I said, you know, any, any interaction with another consciousness that is mutually beneficial is a success. If we come in contact with another person, we both come out of it, we're— that's the kind of stuff that people in life reviews tell us. People have NDEs, that's what my life review was about.

Right? Right. I think it's important to allow ourselves to be human too. Right? I mean, certainly my professional career, jeez, I've had very human moments that have been very sobering, stuff that I learned from, but stuff that makes me— so I think a lot of people stop this because they're like, all right, I'm not congruent exactly with everything that I'm saying. And I think if we, you know, our words we ascribe to, we really aspire to, but if we were to tap into each and every one of our words every day, I think we'd be an angel. You know, and ideally, it's to walk the talk. And that's why each and every day we try to get closer and closer to our truth, not to be separate from it, but to, but to become unified with it. But I think a lot of people give up on themselves, because like, who am I? I'm not perfect. I've done, I've done this, I've done that, I've done that. So I can't do this. And no, I think it's allowing yourself to be human and understanding with what that comes with.

Yeah, well, I always say to people, you know, if we set these challenges up for ourselves, and if we always succeeded, they wouldn't be very good challenges, you know. So sometimes we're not going to be— we're not going to be that perfect. And we— and even as we get better, the challenges can progressively get harder because we're pushing up against harder things.

But yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'm a big sports guy, as you know. I know you are too. But, you know, it's like you think of the biggest alpha in their field, right? I mean, maybe outside of arguably MJ, like Kobe was that person. They were twin flames to me, like very much cut from the same cloth, Kobe and MJ.

Right.

But Kobe was once asked what he thought about failure. He said, what is failure? I was just like floored. Kobe was saying that. He says, if you fail on Monday but grow from it Thursday, how is there ever such a thing as failure? Yeah, it's true. You know, so like we wouldn't be who we are without our own mistakes, our own misjudgments. But those things can make us so much greater. It's kind of like a slingshot, you know, we take a step back, we propel forward.

Exactly.

Some people just give up on themselves. And they just say, all right, I've done this, I've done that, my life's over, I can't try to recreate or change, you know, it's just undamaged goods. And you can't, you can't live like that. You got to forgive yourself. And you got to move on and just allow yourself to be you and let go of all the self-judgment, you know?

Yeah, absolutely. I think that, again, my perception is we are just as, as this human part of me, I am a fractal even of a greater part of me that's still in the non-physical. And but we do, we kind of strip down and we can, we come into this environment and it's, and it's tough, man. It's, it's challenging. And we are going to fail and we're going to stumble, we're going to get caught up in the illusion. We're going to sometimes forget, you know, we're going to, we're going to get, you know, things are going badly, we lost our job, whatever, it's going to be like, this place sucks.

But that's important is to be real. I mean, at least for me, like, the spiritual teachers that I described to you, they're very real with themselves. Like I was once, you know, listening to Neil Donald Walsh, someone who I really connect to. And he was talking about, I think, Eckhart Tolle on stage, and he's like, he walks the talk. I, I try to, but I, but I'm not that, you know, but to me, at least, so that, that stuck with me. That's something that you could relate to.

Right.

And I think every, you know, and Christ said this himself, like, whatever's inside of me is inside of you. And I think it's important as a teacher to also allow yourself to be transparent or vulnerable and for others to see parts of themselves in you too, and to not take away the pedestal because no one is better or, you know, we're all a part of God's creations. You know, it's not like you have a hierarchy or whatever. It's everyone has a significance to add. And if you're not seeing that, then, you know, it's missing out. We're missing out. You know, we got to find a way to cultivate that potential.

You know, it's funny you mentioned Jesus. And I grew up as a fundamental evangelist Christian and was taught that Jesus was perfect and everything. And I remember when the movie The Last Temptation of Christ came out, which was before you were born, probably. But this movie comes out, The Last Temptation of Christ, and it showed Jesus as like human, you know, and he had doubts. And he was, you know, he was tempted by women. And, and I'm like, I thought, if Jesus wasn't tempted, if Jesus didn't have doubts, if Jesus always remembered his divinity, then he wouldn't have had a human experience. He couldn't relate to us.

No, I mean, there's just— we could go all day. Like, there's so much, you know, and again, that box is filled with so many people's prior worldview, you know, even on God. Like, God is not Judge Judy. God is not, you know, um, your parents or a principal, you know. It's like, right, right, we assign authority figures with the ultimate authority, you know, people who think that's a figure of authority. But to many in our country, like I just said, God was, you know, Jesus was not born in a Chick-fil-A, you know. It's not like, like, I don't know what, like, because he He's probably everything that a lot of people just don't like, but if you look at the honest facts, he was socialistic, he was into giving to the poor, he was Middle Eastern, he's probably more Jewish than I am. So it wasn't like a lot of what I guess the European influence depicts as. Right.

But that idea of what we ascribe as perfection, And like I said, when I, when I think about Jesus in particular, because, you know, the Christian teaching is he's God incarnate. I'm like, well, that's not fair. He couldn't have been, he couldn't have been tempted. He couldn't have been any of these things. If he didn't forget who he was, I think that's part of who we do. And even, even though you've had the experience that you've had and still have a memory of it, I'm sure there are times when you get caught up in the illusion too.

All the time. I mean, I'm driving and I flip the bird and I, you know, all the time. And there's a saying by Ram Dass where he says, you think you're good, just ask your family. You know, family, they'll be like, you know, they'll like roll your eyes, you know, but, you know, they'll keep you grounded in a way. And they'll allow you to remind yourself to be human, you know, to remember that it's okay to be human. That's why we're here. We're here to have both, you know, and we can move the needle at times when one is getting too overbalanced. But to have a balance of both those parts of ourselves, I think, is a beautiful place to live in. And like I said, both things could be true at the same time. It doesn't have to be, I'm a spiritual being, and that's it, and I can't be human, or I'm a human being and I can't be spiritual. Yeah, we could both be a spiritual being having these unique human experiences.

Yeah, that's— you just hit on— I think that's the thing. It's, we are here to have this human experience. We're not here to escape it. We're not here to buy bypass it. We are here to experience all the emotions. And I was talking with a guy one time, I was interviewing for my podcast. And he's— he was talking about the purpose, meaning of life, and all the different things. We said we come here to learn, we come here to have experiences, we come here to grow, you know, whatever. He goes, we come here to have a feeling of abandonment. And I said, wait a minute, I've never heard anybody say that before. He goes, yeah, we come here because we're so connected on the other side, we don't know what it's like to be independent, and we can't really grow because there's always everything available to us right now. Every resource is available. So he said we actually come here to experience that abandonment.

It's interesting. Yeah. I mean, I think in the moment, why we cry, because I think we— it's an adjustment when we're born. But I think it's also a feeling of like a separation from not just the wound of our mother, but the womb of God. And I think that's a very big trauma for a lot of people, you know, that we don't recognize how traumatic that is to take from this place of, you know, just this womb energy or this unconditional love energy of God where, you know, there is no negativity, it's all beauty, then we come into this world, it's different. And certainly having my NDE, I had like a rebirth period in that sense where, you know, yeah, I was born, but also it to me felt the same way, where it was just like a rebirth period out of the womb of God into this world. You know, and so that's why many NDEers, you know, celebrate their actual NDE birthday as their birthday. It's a rebirth. You know, but it's a, it's a weird kind of thing, because when we're born, we sob and cry, and when we leave, others cry.

Yeah.

It's like, we can't live in a way without God, but others recognize that God within us that they saw, and they can't live without that divinity, that part of the divinity.

You know, what you just said just reminded me of, um, the Genesis story when they were kicked out of the Garden of Eden. And again, the Christian interpretation is original sin, God punished them. And I have a good friend who's Jewish, and tell me, correct me if I'm wrong, but he said the, the, his interpretation, he had been taught anyway, was that was man coming into wisdom and, and leaving that idyllic place and kind of striking out on his own to, to, you know, be challenged and to grow. So it's not so much a punishment as, as an opportunity to grow.

Yeah, I think in a way a part of us almost gets bored with that. Like, we crave the challenge, we crave the resistance, you know. That's like growth in a way. Without the resistance, you know, I think there's growth in this side, sure, but I think there's more I, this is, there, there's more weights on this barbell here.

Yeah.

I think there's a lot more resistance here.

Yeah. Well, we were talking about sports analogies earlier and, and you think, I, I, I, I, and I, I was just giving a talk the other day and I was like, I love football. Right. And I think about, you think about how silly is a football game. You got people, they strap on pads, they go out, they, they go, they oppose each other in a, in a totally artificial conflict. But we love that. We love watching people push themselves to the limits.

I think, though, that sports is evolving in a way. I think there's a lot— I mean, I think it's like a part of us likes the illusion to be into it, that there's us against them. But I think at times that plug is pulled and people remember that there's one team. I know, for instance, where you're from, with the Buffalo Bills game against the Bengals right by you. Geez, I'm forgetting the stadium, but in the Bengals stadium—

Paycor Stadium, but Paul Brown Stadium.

Yeah. Yeah. When their safety went down, everything stopped. We just recognized, geez, we're fighting over people bleeding in different jerseys and it's life or death and it's not. You know, and we just remembered, you know, how this isn't life or death and how really, you know, it's about one team, you know, and we're all just connected. And that was just a moment of healing to me. And so I think sport is great if you're able to understand that it's not life or death and we're all really on the same team at the end of the day.

Right.

And, but, but hopefully through not just wins, but through losses, there could be growth and we could help out each other through the resistance that we bring to grow.

Yeah, you know, that is an excellent point. And I'm glad you— I'm glad you said that. Because, you know, I tell people, again, sometimes people like, you shouldn't like football, you know, you're, you're a spiritual person, whatever, you shouldn't like football, it's a terrible game. I'm like, but I do like the forgetting that the Pittsburgh Steelers are not really my enemy. I like, I like to root against the Steelers. Now, when that something happens at DeMar Hamlin, that's when we go to that next level, right? So it's just like being here, we come here, we play this game, this game we call life, and we, we feel like we're separate from other people, and it's us versus them. But at that next level, we know we're all one. And when DeMar went down, it was just like, it was a beautiful moment. You're right, it's a beautiful reminder of how everybody came together, and there was no bangles.

Pretty much, I mean, outside of Skip Bayless, everyone was on the same page in that situation. But Skip's old school, and I get it. But yeah, everyone, you know, it was about life and death. And that's what people reminded that this is just a game. It's not life and death. And so we don't want to be enslaved by the game of football, but informed of like what it is, right? But being able to see beyond that, and that's life itself. Isn't that life itself, though? Right, right. You know, we have these experiences, but we're not like totally defined by them. They're just experiences, and we're able to see past through them while we're experiencing them. That's a beautiful place to be in.

Yeah, and that's— I love, uh, Manuel Swedenborg, and he talks about correspondences and how everything in nature is a correspondence. And if we can take things like the game of football and, and, and have that extraction and then apply that to the game of life and say, yeah, we're here, we're playing the game, and we're doing all this and this, but ultimately we're all on one team, and ultimately nothing is life or death. I love what you said earlier about you gave up— I think you said you, you gave up your life, but you said you can't really give up your life. It's like you gave up your body.

Yeah, my body, right? And I know you have this saying, and I'm paraphrasing, but something like— I know I'm not giving the statement justice, Brian D Smith— but something like, you could plant a body, but you can never plant a soul, or the soul is reborn from the body in a way. You know, just because you might put a body 6 feet under, that does not mean that the soul will too. And I I think that's a very important viewpoint regarding grief. Because if we hold this picture of life after death, with just a body hanging out 6 feet under, I could see that as a very bleak fear. But, you know, why in God's name would the body hang out in the, you know, 6 feet under the cemetery if it could be anywhere? Like, you know, you know, so it doesn't make sense. But again, when we see ourselves as just a body, then that's all will identify us. But we see ourselves beyond it, we could understand that there's a possibility of life beyond this body, within this body and beyond this body. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, it's really, I think for me, I view the body more now like a receiver. I view the brain as more of a receiver, more of a filter, actually. And I, and, you know, you mentioned movies earlier, I think Hollywood, I think a lot of that stuff is channeled. And why I have a lot of problems with the movie Avatar, One of the things I loved about the movie was the idea that, you know, you could be in one place and you're operating this body that's not really like who you are. And that's, that's how we are. I think when we're here, we are, we are operating this body from our higher perspective, our souls are occupied, it's a virtual reality, we get, we have all these little sensory inputs. And we feel like we're sitting in the room, but we're not really sitting in the rooms that we feel like we're in, which The Matrix, I think, did an excellent job with.

Oh, I mean, The Matrix and I think Avatar definitely referenced in like a lot of different, you know, higher awareness books and stuff like that. But absolutely, I think when you're coming from this creative place, it's not coming from you but through you. And, you know, cinema is a great platform to reach people. I really do believe. But I think The Wizard of Oz, to me at least, that's a very, very, um, higher otherworldly movie.

It absolutely is.

And it just really tells you that home is within. And sometimes we're having this life and it's a dream, but then we come back in a way, you know, that this is all just— there's an illusion within life too at the same time. But home is within, you know, the power is within. Star Wars, the same thing. I know George Lucas had a near-death experience himself, but You know, what does he say? The forces within.

I just heard that recently.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of, you know, a lot of people, you know, who you wouldn't think have had near-death experiences, they're not as public with it, but they speak a little bit about it. You know, Sharon Stone and Tracy Morgan and Elizabeth Taylor, some, you know, another near-death— Plato, you know, people thought— Carl Jung people, you know, it was said that. So it's nothing new, but I think it's getting a lot more traction now as I think the medical community and scientific community is an ally, not an enemy of this stuff. Finally.

Yeah.

You know, and is really, and I think as medical advancement is increasing, that incubation period is increasing too. And so people are able to have these more readily available. And I'm interested to see though if Tamar Hamlin had one, 'cause I mean, I know that was a technical one, but as time goes on to see if he, experience anything. Because that— I mean, if you could say, all right, Damar wouldn't have had that if he was just at his home. But quite honestly, if he wasn't at a football field with medical staff around him, this happened in his sleep, like, you know, he wouldn't have been— so that was in many ways the best place for him to be, right?

It was, yeah.

It just around all support on deck, you know, versus in his sleep with no one around him. But that was a medical miracle and a miracle, you know, spiritual miracle too.

Yeah, yeah. As one of those things I think was meant to happen. I think it opened up a lot of people's eyes to, you know, to a lot of things.

And we saw a man die and be resurrected right in front of us on national TV. Yeah. But, but you also saw like the illusion of how it was us versus them. And it was just one team.

Right, right.

You know, and in Kobe's passing, right, people were you know, on the sport, you know, on the basketball courts, and they just— you saw athletes sobbing and crying and hug each other. It just reminds you like what life is really about. We're not against each other, we're with each other. And it created more oneness.

Yeah.

You know, in, you know, the most divisive kind of things like us versus them, and we're able to find oneness, you know, you know, beyond that illusion. Yeah, that's beautiful.

Well, Jacob, remind people of both of your books. The names and where they can get them and where they can contact you.

Yes. So my two books are both available on Amazon, The Wisdom Jacob's Ladder, which just came out a month ago, and Life After Breath. My first book is available on Amazon on paperback and Kindle, trying to get audio. It's a little technical with my publisher, but they could find me there. And for those interested in inquiries or social media following or appointments, You could find me on my website at JacobLCooper.com. That's JacobLCooper.com. And there hasn't been an email that I don't think I've ever gotten— not gotten back to yet. And I try to live up to that, you know, every day.

So yeah, it's good to see you again. Thanks for being here, Brian.

Thank you so much for having me. Keep up the amazing work. And it's such an honor. I can't tell you how much respect and admiration and love I have for you.

Thank you. Have a great day.

All right. Be well. Thank you.

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