How Courtney Pray Duke Was Carried Forward by Faith After Being Widowed at 29 Years Old | EP 487

You know you need something, you're just not sure what. You've been listening, you're doing the work, but there's still this feeling that you're circling the same place, like you're waiting for the thing that finally moves you. Now maybe you've thought about working with me one-on-one. Maybe something's held you back, the timing, the money, or you're just not sure you're ready yet. I get that. And I want you to know there's still a place for you. I built a resource for exactly this moment, guided meditations for when the waves hit and you just need to breathe. Workbooks to help you get out of your head and onto the page, ebooks on what near-death experiences tell us about the people we've lost, and whether they're really gone, a full course for widows and widowers who are ready to find their way back to living, and a full course for the evidence of the afterlife. And all of it is available for pay what you want. Nobody gets turned away because of money. I think these resources are valuable, but I don't want to hold them back because you don't have the money to pay for them. You don't have to wait until you're ready for coaching. The next step might be a lot smaller than you think. To find out, go to grief2growth.com/store. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/store. And check out the resources I've made for you. Close your eyes and imagine. What are the things in life that cause us the greatest pain? The things that bring us grief are challenges, challenges designed to help us grow, to ultimately become what we were always meant to be. We feel like we've been buried. But what if, like a seed, we've been planted? And having been planted, we grow to become a mighty tree. Now, open your eyes. Open your eyes to this way of viewing life. Come with me as we explore your true, infinite, eternal nature. This is Grief to Growth. And I am your host, Brian D Smith. Hey everybody, welcome to Grief to Growth. I'm Brian Smith. And if you're new here, this show is about something that most people don't want to talk about, but desperately need to. We explore what happens when life shatters and whether something meaningful can rise from the rubble. We ask the hard questions: Is there life after loss? Can the people we've loved and lost still be with us? And how do we actually keep living when a part of us doesn't want to? So whether you've been walking this road for years, or you're just finding your footing, you're in the right place. My guest today is Courtney Pray Duke. Courtney is a woman who knows what it means to have the floor ripped out from under her and get back up anyway. She was widowed at the age of 29 after her husband was killed in a cycling accident. Courtney was left with 3 young children, a shattered world, and a question that so many of us have faced: Now what? Now, in the years that have followed, she's built a life marked not by the absence of pain, but by something she found inside. Her newly released book, And She Got Up: Shattered by Loss, Restored by Jesus, tells that story with the kind of honesty that only comes from someone who's actually been through the fire. Now, Courtney and I do come at grief from slightly different angles. She through faith deeply rooted in Jesus, and I come through a journey that's taken me into the science of consciousness and the evidence for life after death. But here's what I know: when it comes to the brokenhearted, we're all after the same thing. Hope that holds up and a reason to get up. In this conversation, we're going to explore what it really looks like to navigate devastation, not with platitudes, with the kind of raw, practical faith that gets you through the next 10 minutes. We'll talk about resurrection as something that happens in real life, in real time. And we'll talk about what it means to find purpose when the life that you planned is gone, and about the moment you realize that you love the love you thought you lost, is somehow impossibly still with you. Now, if you've been lying on the floor wondering if you'll ever be able to stand again, this one's for you. And if you want to continue this conversation after the episode, head over to grieftogrowth.substack.com. And you'll find an article there about today's discussion, where you can comment and you can connect with me and with other listeners. So let's get started. Let's welcome Courtney Pray Duke.

Hi, Brian. So nice to meet you. Thank you for having me. I'm so honored.

Yeah, I'm really happy to have you here today, Courtney. I was telling you earlier, it seems like my guests kind of come in waves, and lately I've been talking to a lot of people who have gone through what you've gone through. So first I want to say I'm sorry for the loss of your husband, um, and I wanted— I wanted to honor him by first, before we get into everything else, tell me about him.

Yeah, well, his name was Andrew Pray, and he and I met in third and fourth grade. Oh wow. And so we go way back. We were, um, childhood friends, and then we became middle high school sweethearts. And Andrew was a very remarkable man. He knew what he wanted early in life. He was, he was very disciplined. He was, he was well respected. Um, he played football in high school and he led worship. And when I, um, when, when we grew— started growing up a little more in our teenage years, we started leading worship together. And so, um, he eventually, um, we got married at 19 and 20, and we just, we knew that we were supposed to, you know, live out this life together. I mean, it was, there was no doubt that we were called to, um, be on mission together. And so we did it. We got married and we moved to Atlanta, Georgia, and started, helped start a church And, um, from there we, uh, had 3 babies. And, um, but Andrew was— I mean, he was my best friend. He was, um, every night from the time before we got married until, um, really the night before he passed, he would always say, don't forget you're beautiful. Every day I heard it, every day for 15 years, 16 years. And he, um, he was just a leader and lovable, fun, smart. Um, and, you know, he was such a great dad too. So we had a son and then a daughter and then another son. And, um, yeah, I still, I still miss him so much. You know, it's, it's surreal how you can live life with someone and they're there every day and you don't even know life apart from them, because I did not know life apart from Andrew. Right, right. And I didn't know who I was apart from him. Um, one day they're there and then the next day they're just gone. You can't text them, you can't call them, and you know what that feels like, and so many of you listeners can relate to that as well. There's just this void of life and bantering and getting advice. And so all of that, we miss him so much still to this day. But he was— grief is just love with nowhere to go. And so we, over the years, we honor him still. That we, you know, we still carry the grief. And that's just the love that we had, yeah, had for him.

Yeah. Well, again, I'm so sorry for your loss, and I, I can't even imagine how devastating that would be at that, at that young age. You did have, you know, your time with him, but that feeling that you must have had, like, like you said, not knowing life without him, not ever being an adult without him. And how old were your children at the time he passed?

They were 8, 6, and 2.

Okay, wow.

And, um, yep, so he was, um, on a— so my husband was a— Andrew was a cyclist on the side, like an avid cyclist. I mean, he would ride century rides, and, um, he was in tip-top shape. Um, and here we are the day before— I'll just paint a picture— it's the day before Thanksgiving 2012, and you know what it's like before a holiday. You're just kind of— everyone's starting to get ready, you're taking off work, you're kind of clearing the calendar, you're getting the groceries ready and preparing the meal and talking to the, the loved ones that you're going to be with and planning. And that's kind of the zone we were in. And Andrew had planned to go on a 75-mile ride around where we lived, and which was very normal for him. Can't imagine that, but it was something he loved to do. And that day was no different. It was a blue sky day. The weather was just like perfect. The leaves were beautiful. Um, and we were living the dream. And life wasn't perfect, but it was sure close, just as far as living our dream life. And it wasn't without hardship or any of that, but we had each other, you know? And just the week before, I remember telling him, I said, "You know what? As long as we've got each other, we can do anything." And he was just like, "Yeah," you know? And we went on with whatever it was we were doing. But then fast forward a week later, the day before Thanksgiving, he was walking out the door to go ride, and he looked at me and he said, "Is there anything else I can do to make your day more enjoyable?" And I said, "No, you've been amazing this morning." He had been helping with the kids so I could go and, you know, get stuff done. And he said, "I love you." And I said, "I love you too." And he walked out the door, and I remember hearing the garage door close, and it kind of stopped me in my tracks because I couldn't— I just— I normally didn't stand there and listen to the garage door. I don't know why I did that day, but I prayed for him like I always had, you know, Lord, just cover him and protect him, and, um, went on with my morning. My daughter and I were painting our nails, and I was making lunch for the, for the kids. Again, they were 8, 6, and 2. Um, so my youngest was running around in diapers. He had peanut butter smeared all over him. You know, we're getting our Christmas decorations out and all the things. When I sit down to eat my lunch and I get a phone call. And many of you know that phone call. Yeah, it came like a bomb that detonated, and there was a frantic lady on the other end of the line that said, you need to get to the emergency room, your— the trauma unit, actually. Your husband's been in an accident. Well, I was thinking, he— Andrew's indestructible. No, he'll find a way to pull through from this. I know that he's fine. So I tried to text him and call him, and his phone wasn't working. And I was just thinking, okay, maybe he broke his phone, maybe he's in surgery, you know, all of the things, just trying to not let my mind go to the worst-case scenario. And, and just frantically, I'm gathering the kids up, we get in the car, and we speed to the hospital. And right before we get to the hospital, I get a call from a family member that said, um, hey, you need to pull over, um, if you've got the kids in the car, just get out of the car. So I get out of the car on the side of the road, and he said Andrew didn't make it. And everything in me just collapsed. I fell on the pavement. I'll never forget, on the side of the road, and just got down on my knees. And I just— it felt like the world had turned upside down and shattered and detonated. And I had my 3 babies still sitting in the car. And I just remember praying, God, I don't know what you're doing. I don't— I mean, I couldn't even think clearly. It was like I couldn't hear, I couldn't see straight. The world just kind of became black and white, like it just kind of lost its color. And I got back in the car and I remember praying and just— and I'm a person of faith. I had— I've loved Jesus and I've served him my whole life and And I was like, God, you gotta— where are you? You know, in that moment I was thinking, where are you? And I just prayed. I said, God, give me the strength to tell my babies what happened. And the hardest thing I've ever had to do was just to say, you know, Daddy's home with Jesus. And there's, you know, so then we go through this whole thing of he died and answering the questions and we're all crying. And, um, we get to the trauma unit there and I can remember feeling, um, like, first of all, all the eyeballs were staring us down as we walked in through the doors. I guess word gets around fast. And, um, we walked in there and life, you know, uh, had drastically changed. It was all of a sudden we were living in this foreign world that, that I couldn't even understand the language to. I mean, it smelled different, it looked different. And I felt— I remember leaving the hospital that day thinking I just left half me in the hospital, and I don't know if I'm gonna make it. And that's, um, that's an understatement. I mean, it was, it was, as, as you well know, those days and weeks following were just, um, they were excruciating and they were dark. And, and I, I truly didn't know if I would ever be able to really live again, you know? Like, would I ever be able to see life in color again? Would I ever be able to taste food again? Would I ever be able to walk upright with purpose and joy? And I didn't know if it was going to be possible at that moment.

Thank you for sharing that. And I know it's difficult, but thank you for painting that picture for people. To understand that how your world can just completely change in an instant. And, and, and you know that, you know, you, you, the day that you said was a beautiful day when my daughter passed away, it was June 24th. I was telling you earlier, I live in Ohio, was a beautiful day. I'd gone for a walk that morning, the sky was, you know, perfect and everything. And then, you know, my wife calls me from upstairs and Shayna wasn't breathing. Uh, and that leaving leaving her behind in the hospital, that feeling. So, you know, people, it's really difficult for someone to imagine that you don't know, as you said, if you can go on. And you used, you said the world went black and white. My wife and I said the same thing. Like, there's no color in the world anymore. And like, people don't, people, you know, does the world know that the world ended that day?

Right.

So that's the way that feels. So being a person of faith, and you said you prayed to Jesus, you pray to God, how did this affect your faith journey? Were you angry? Were you frustrated? Did you feel abandoned? How did you feel? Stay with us.

We'll be right back.

You know, one of the hardest things about grief, most of the people in your life just don't get it. They want you to be further along than you are. They get uncomfortable when you bring it up. So you stop bringing it up. And that's why I started writing. My Substack is where I go deeper. Thoughts I don't always get to on the podcast. Essays on consciousness, on continuing bonds, on what it actually means to carry loss and still build a life. The stuff that used to keep me up at night, written out in a way that I hope meets you in the morning. But here's what I didn't expect when I started it. The community that showed up. People who are doing exactly what you're doing. Listening, learning, trying to find their footing. Readers who comment, who share their own stories, who remind each other that none of us are as alone in this as we feel. And that's what the Substack has become— a place to go deeper with me and to find your people. It's free to subscribe. Find me at grief2growth.com/substack. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/substack. Or just go to Substack and search for Grief to Growth. I hope to see you there.

Yeah, I mean, I went through all the emotions. I remember feeling like, God, you picked the wrong girl. Like, surely someone else could do this way better and they would be way more equipped. And And I remember feeling— yeah, I had moments where I felt, felt abandoned, like, God, where are you? I had moments where I was wrestling with, with the goodness of God. And, um, you know, for me, I, I just went in further because, you know, when you lose everything, you— it's kind of like you get to this point, you're like, what more is there to lose? And so I remember pressing in further, and I would get my Bible And I would open it up and something that I had been reading most of my life, all of a sudden, like, it became like this flood of life inside of me. It began to, like, wake up places that it wasn't like I was reading this theory anymore. This was something that now had become, like, life or death.

Yeah.

Like, it was like, I can remember, like, God, if you don't come through for me, I'm not gonna make it. If you don't come through for the kids, We're not going to make it, so show me who you are. And I would, I would just put it all on the line. And, um, I would see, um, you know, there was day after day after day in the wrestle, in that messy, messy middle of, you know, still living in this disoriented world, wondering if there was anything good left for my life. I can remember, um, reading, um, that, that God said he would be near to the brokenhearted. And, and I, I remember just clinging on to that, like, you, you didn't leave me, you know. Um, and I would read that God says, he says, I'll never leave you or forsake you. And so I begin to just like hold on to that as if it were my life, because it was. And for me, um, That is how, that is how I began to, to walk a day at a time and just cling on to these promises. Um, and I really did see miracles begin to unfold, things that I couldn't imagine that I would live through or watch my babies live through.

Yeah.

Um, but I, I remember laying I would put my head on my pillow every night, every night in those early days, those early years. And I remember just, I would look back over my day and I would just think, whoa, like, we did that. God, you came through for us. I held you to it and you showed up. So it's like, you might have felt abandoned, but God's like, I've been here the whole time and I'm never going to leave you, and I'm going to hold your hand until like you get up and stand, and then I'm still going to hold your hand and walk with you. But I just love that it, you know, we feel like, um, we feel like our world is imploded and that everyone leaves, and everyone— and some do, you know, some, some can't handle the grief and the heartache and the pain. But for me, I had so many, um not so many. I had a handful of like warrior friends that showed up for me, um, and they would come in and they would help with the dishes, they would help with bedtime with the kids, they would enter in unafraid. They were, they, they were called to our family and they, they walked into the valley of the shadow of death with us. And, um, And they helped lift my head, you know, and they would help remind me of what's true. Because our minds naturally want to go to, you know, the negative. We tend as human beings to err on the side of the negativity and to just put that on repeat. And so I had to find a new way of thinking and a new way of putting the truth on repeat. And I think that that was the fight for me. It's like, okay, what's true? We're gonna have to like retrain, you know, retrain this battered and bruised brain, right? Um, but filling my mind with truth, with the word of God, was the life source for me. And, um, I had amazing friends who, like I said, were unafraid to enter into the pain and the mess and the just kind of the thing that makes people want to run. And they came and they sat right there with me. And they're still just, you know, very near and dear to me to this day. Andrew passed away, that was 13 years ago. You know, you know, and, um, there are some days that, you know, it feels like a blink, and then some days it feels like forever.

Yeah.

And it's so— it's so wild how, um, yeah, time just gets distorted. Yes.

Yeah, I, I, I definitely understand that. And, you know, it's interesting because you, you say some of the same things that I might say, but in maybe different language. Um, you talked about some miracles that, that God performed for you. Can you give us some examples of what one of those would have been?

Yeah, so, um, there, you know, things from little things like little miracles. Like, we, we went to the grocery store that day, we put— we were able to get food in the pantry and make dinner, and, you know, and everyone got in bed that night. I mean, little things like that, all the way up until I remember 9 months after Um, 8, 9 months after Andrew, um, went to heaven, we— I was really feeling a stirring like we needed to move. And the thought of moving, you know, now without a husband and 3 small children felt so overwhelming. And I remember one day I was going out to the bus stop to meet my kids, um, off the bus from school And I was just like, God, I need your help. Like, I need you to show me what to do because I don't know what to do and I don't know where to go, but I'll go anywhere. I mean, I just— I was so burdened for others that were hurting. I was beginning to think I wanted to spend my life on behalf of the hurting, but I didn't know what that looked like. And I was still in such a fog. I mean, I still could hardly see my hand in front of my face. So I prayed this very specific prayer on the way out the door that day, and I, um, I was like, God, will you just make it so clear? Like, make it like right in the sky, um, where, where I need to go. And so I walked out to my driveway, um, walked out to my mailbox, and I opened the mailbox and out fell this leather bracelet, and it like hit the pavement because it fell out of a little like a letter that I opened.

Hmm.

And I was like, oh, that's weird. And so I picked it up and on the bracelet it said passion. And the lady that wrote the letter, she said, I don't— you know, I know that we don't— we don't know each other. I know you don't really know what this word means. You might know what this word means, but I don't. I just felt like I was supposed to send you this today. And little did she know, I had been, um, going down, driving an hour south down to Atlanta. So we were like an hour north, northwest of Atlanta at the time. Well, drive— I've been driving down to Atlanta and I'd been attending, um, Passion City Church, um, to just like go and, um, just— I, I found it was like a, a a place of healing. I can't explain it, um, any better than it was just like a respite for our family. And so anyway, but nobody really knew that because, you know, we were serving at this church. And, um, but the weeks that I wasn't singing, leading worship, we would drive down to Passion. Okay, so if that wasn't as clear as day that we were to move to Atlanta. I don't know what was, and it was just the timing was— I mean, it— my mouth was like on the floor.

Yeah.

And I knew that's where we were supposed to go, so we started looking at houses. You know, we would drive— I would drive the kids down to Atlanta, we would just drive around, and I would just be like, okay, um, God, show us where to go. And I, you know, we eventually found our home But, you know, when I look back and making a big move like that, um, is something that I, I wouldn't have thought that I'd be able to do, um, with 3 small kids on my own. But I really— there, there were just so many miracles along the way of God just pushing us through, like, this is the next step, just do the next thing, you know, take the next step. You don't have to see the whole you know, your whole future. You don't have to know what you're going to be doing next week even. Yeah, you just need to take the next step. And I feel like there were miraculously divine moments of, um, of God enabling us to do that which we could not do on our own.

Yeah, I, I completely agree with that. And, and my language, we call those signs or synchronicities. Yes, that, that happened, that, you know, that the universe, God doesn't abandon us. It's not all random. There is, there is order to it if we can just look for it. And your, your faith, you know, people can— I saw people— we have a choice when something like this happens. We can choose to turn into our faith, or we can choose to turn away from it. Some people do. Some people say, well, if this happened, there, there cannot be a God, or if there's a God, he's not a good God. And they will get angry and turn away. You chose to lean into it, you know. You chose, okay, this is what I'm going to do. And you asked, you know, you asked for the signs and you received.

Yes. And, um, you know, in that is where I tasted the goodness of God. It was in those— in the worst moments of my life, the places where I could have said, God, like you're not good. And how could you be good if this happened to me, right? Well, we were never promised— nobody was ever promised this easy life, you know. It is full of suffering and hardship, um, and that is part of life. But God, in the middle of that, is what rerouted everything for me. I saw his goodness. I saw his compassion. I felt you know, his nearness and his presence. And, and it lead— led me and guided me and, um, gave my kids this unspeakable peace. And, and eventually, you know, the color began to come back, began to come back. And eventually, you know, we found ourselves around the table, which we didn't know we could ever face, but the table, you know, with that empty chair.

No, no.

You know, we, it's like we were given the grace to sit around the table and to laugh again and to enjoy food. And you know, this, none of this happened overnight, but it was in that that I began to see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. And sometimes you gotta wait for it, but it doesn't mean, it doesn't mean that God's not good. He's always good. He doesn't change. Our circumstances change, but he never changes. And so I anchored my life in that unchanging, um, truth that, um, he wasn't going to fail me. And he didn't fail. He didn't fail me on November 21st, and he hasn't failed me yet all these years later. Has it been hard? Yes.

Yeah.

But have I had to walk alone? No. I haven't.

Yeah. And that's another thing that I, you know, I work with my clients on, and I try to tell people, it's like we have to anchor ourselves in the truth, because our brains are designed to go negative, to focus on what we're missing, to focus on what we lost, and to focus on all that stuff, as opposed to anchoring ourselves in the truth that we are cared for, and we are loved, and things are going to work out. But that's the faith part of it. Not that, not that everything's going to go smoothly, but that we'll somehow be able to get through it, you know, with the strength that we, that, that we can draw. And so I love the way that, that you put that. And you did say, because I was going to ask you to describe the process of, of the, of the color coming back, because people seem to think a lot of times, well, one day I'm going to be healed and one day this will be over. But you said it didn't come back all at once.

Yeah, it didn't come back overnight. You know, that there are many days I wanted to hit— I wish there was like an eject button that I could just like, boop, like catapult myself 10 years, you know, down the road or into another place that wasn't this place. And here's the thing, if anyone listening is in the middle of the hardest time in your life, I just want to encourage you that it's not going to stay there. You weren't meant to stay in that valley forever. Um, and our healing, it, it can happen overnight, and, and especially like with the Lord, he can heal you overnight, but most of the time it's a process.

Yeah.

And for me, it was, it was a, it was a process, and that process was very, um, um, it's not what I would think it would be, you know. It looks like 3 steps forward, it's like, oh, we're getting momentum, and then you just feel like you get, you know, slapped back again and back to the start. And then you would get, you know, you would move a little further down the road, and then you would realize that, oh, we've now— that, like, we're growing these muscles. Because what's happened is there's been a severing. When you lose someone you love, It feels like you've been cut in half, like you've been paralyzed. And now you're learning to rework these muscles and these tendons and discover, you know, really who you are without them in your life and how to live again and how to do the everyday tasks. You know, without them. And that is, you know, it's like we would be— I'm just going to go back to something simple as food because I think anyone that's lost someone can really relate to this. Is like, so Andrew was a chef, or not a chef, he was our homemade chef, but he was a very good cook. And I'm not a great cook. So food was a source of grief. Like it was just one of those things that I was like, oh, I can't, you know, I just don't have it in me to do this today. But I can remember, um, and I kind of touched on it earlier, but I can remember, you know, slowly, slowly but surely, we would be sitting around the table having faced that, that loss. And I, I would think like, oh, we've done this a few times now. Or I would drive to, you know, the kids' ballgames alone and thinking like, you know, the first few times it took me out. I mean, it was so hard and to face it and to go alone and to try to be joyful and cheer them on. But then, you know, it's like that muscle memory of, okay, this is the life I've been given. We have one shot showing up for them when it was hard. And then you look back and you're thinking, oh, I don't feel like I've been punched in the gut anymore. I was able to go cheer for my son and And yes, I'm feeling— I feel the sting of sadness, that splinter of sadness is there. It's always there. But the joy, the joy began to come back. And I could remember thinking that I've got a future, that my life did not end the day that Andrew left this earth.

Yeah.

There was more and there was not just more for me, but more for my kids. And but going through that is not linear. It is a very jagged, messy process.

Yeah.

And but it's also filled with so much grace, you know?

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And so when, when Andrew passed, you were, you were still young, um, and you, you have these three small children. Uh, what about like, now I know now you're, you're married, um, and you have another child since then. So how did that— what was that process like of saying, I'm ready to go back out into the romantic world?

Yeah, well, I never, um, I I wasn't like, oh, I'm ready to date again. I never really got to that point, if I'm honest.

Right, right.

And I wasn't like looking for it. And not that there's anything wrong with that, um, because Andrew and I, we fulfilled our vows to each other till death do us part. But that was something really hard for me to wrap my head and my heart around because I still felt married. I had been with Andrew my whole life. I hadn't known anyone else, you know, I hadn't dated anyone else. And so for me, it was like I knew that I— I knew I wanted to have that companion, but I also knew, or I didn't think I was going to be able to love again or even want to open up my heart to anyone else again, because the reality was I still felt married to Andrew. So it was a process for me. And it took a mutual friend knowing John and knowing me individually to say, "Hey, I just think y'all should know each other. I think you should just go to dinner or coffee or whatever," you know. And I kind of joked and I said, "You can give him my email." And, but anyway, eventually we started talking, but it was a very slow process for me. It was like I wasn't ready. Um, I wasn't ready to just be like, I'm, I'm all in, you know, right out the gate. It took like, you know, like texting, getting to know each other. And then when John came into town, because he is a— he was a musician, and so he was traveling at the time. He's not anymore, but he was, uh, traveling. When he came through Atlanta, you know, we would go on a date. And, um, anyway, he eventually moved a couple miles away just so that we could be in the same space for a little while. Right. And then once we knew that we were going to get married— I'm fast-forwarding a lot, but once we knew we were going to get married, then that's when I introduced the kids to him. But it was just so, so redemptive to be able to open up again and to allow God to do a new thing, because that's what was happening. You know, it was, um, it wasn't, it wasn't— you don't replace a person.

Yes.

But, but God can restore a loss.

Yeah.

And here I am now, learning now, all, all these years— this was 4, 4 years after Andrew passed— I'm now learning a little more grace fully how to hold both joy and sorrow. And I'm at my wedding and we have all of our children around us, you know, wasn't the life we had planned, it wasn't the— that wedding you have in your dreams, you know. It was like we had, um, altogether 5 children in our wedding. And, um, but God was doing a new thing and it felt like, um there was just— there was joy rising from the ashes. There was life kind of beyond this devastation. But I'm saying my vows, you know, crying. You're so happy, but there's grief. It's all intermingled. The joy and the sorrow is just— it's all right there. And I've just learned over time that that is such a gift. Because you can't know joy, real joy, unless you've known sorrow.

Yeah, that's true.

Yeah. Um, and so it's, it's learning how to walk with both of those things. But, but that is one area of restoration and in our lives. And I've just seen my kids there now. I have my older two are in college.

Wow.

And then I've got a 16-year-old. So the 2-year-old is now 16. He's driving and And then John and I, we had a baby boy, and he is now 8. So, and you know, he's just a tangible reminder every day that there is more. That just because you walk through complete and utter devastation and your whole world is shattered, there is more life ahead. That it is not gonna stay, you were not meant to stay in this valley full of ashes. You were meant to rise. And the way that I've, that I've done that is by, um, the hand of Jesus that took me up. And he said, you are mine, you are mine. And he never left me. And he, he gave me the strength to stand and now walk in this, this life of victory that I, I never dreamt um, that I could. And, um, I just, you know, I'm able to, to help others. Um, and I really do think that our suffering has a superpower because, as you know, anyone that— and anyone that's walked through loss, um, and grief and, and heartache of any kind, it really is this like secret tunnel in life that I didn't know it existed until I walked through it, right? And it's like, oh, this is what people have been going through from the beginning of time that I'm just given, you know, this insight into. But what that does is changes your lens, it changes your eyes, it changes the way you see people, and it's the way that you see pain and suffering. And it really can be a super power if we let it, you know, because you can speak into places and you can, you can, you can talk to people in a way that you couldn't before. And so in so many ways, my grief and my pain and my suffering has transformed me into someone that I, I wouldn't be able to be had I not have gone through that. And, and I just thank God for that. I thank God for that. And, um, it's such a strange thing, you know, to say about suffering, but you can still miss and love the person you lost, yet still have the permission to get up and walk a life of victory and purpose. Can I just say that word and highlight that word? Because I think that there is purpose on every single one of our lives, no matter what difficulties we've walked through and what pain and heartache we've endured, there is a purpose, a God-given purpose on every one of our lives that I believe when we wake up and we choose to walk in that, God will do miracle after miracle, and he will do more than we can ever dream or imagine. And I feel, and I believe that's what I've walked in in the past 13 years of my life.

Yeah, well, thank you for sharing that because I think it's really, um, I have a friend that just recently lost her husband and, you know, people are so well-meaning but they'll ask you things like, well, when are you going to be ready to date again? Or, you know, you'll find somebody else. And it's really important for us that are trying to help people that it's different for everybody, that, that, you know, they're probably— you're probably not going to get excited about dating. And I can only imagine, you know, this is the only person you've ever been with. It's like, it does feel kind of like a betrayal when you, when you say, I'm going to do this again. But you said something I think very, very important there. When we take our wedding vows, most of us don't really think about what we say. We say, till death do us part. And so when a person has done that, and that one person is, is gone, those vows are, they're fulfilled. The commitment has been made. So it's not cheating. There's nothing wrong with it. But there's a part of our brain, I think, that says there's something wrong. And we have to learn to, again, speak the truth to ourselves.

Yes. Yes. And just remembering that, you know, not that we need permission to get up and live our lives to the full, but sometimes we do. You know, we kind of feel like, I need to remember. Remember that I did fulfill my vows and that I'm, you know, I am being— I'm not, you know, I am going to be— I am being faithful. And I'm, um, and it's okay to open up. It's okay to, um, to begin to open up your heart again, the love, because we're made to love. And, you know, not, not everyone, you know, will get married. And let me just say this, marriage— remarriage doesn't fix all the problems, right? Right. So also want to free, free the listener that you're thinking, I I don't know if, you know, it's okay, you know, to not get remarried because it will increase some of the difficulties in some ways, especially blending a family. But it's— my experience has been it's so worth it, you know? It's so worth it to have someone to love. And I like to say I've got a husband in heaven and a husband on earth. I'm like, Yeah, and then, and that's possible, right?

And it's not, it's not letting Andrew go, you know, because people think it's like, okay, well, I have to switch from this person to, to that person, or, or this person is a replacement. It's not, it's not that at all. And I hear from what you're saying, and, and you're, you still have that love for Andrew. He's still part of your life. He's still your father's, your children's father. And so what's your, what's your children's, you know, because one of them was very young when he passed. So what are their relationships like with Andrew now?

Um, they, you know, my youngest doesn't remember him, right? So that has its own set of, of challenges of he's just like him.

Yeah.

So I, I have to tell him these things. So his memory of his dad is through what I tell him, and I think it's important that we we keep the memory alive and we remind them of the little things. Like when he'll make a little movement, I say, "Oh, your dad did that same thing," you know? And he likes to hear that. And that's good. It's good for them to know those things. And, um, and that my older two, though, they were close with their dad. And so that has been, um, also uniquely challenging. And we're finding that through every kind of life stage we go, every milestone and, and next big thing that happens in life, there's grief that comes back up.

Absolutely.

And, um, I think that we're learning that that rhythm is, um, it's a normal thing to feel and it's healthy. Yeah. And I think that when it first started kind of happening, you know, you're thinking, oh, I'm 3, 4, 5 years out, I'm good now. And then And then they graduate high school, and then you just, you feel the gut punch all over again. You're like, why am I feeling this? I thought I was further along than I am. Well, I just wanna encourage you that you are further along than you think you are. And just because you feel that gut punch that comes with those monumental milestones in life, it doesn't mean that um, just because you feel that, it doesn't mean that the, um— ah, I lost my train of thought. It doesn't mean that you've gotten— you've been set back, right? Or, um, it just means that that's a healthy part of growing and grieving and, and, and becoming, you know, it's— it— this new life, not necessarily one you handpicked, but one that you are equipped to walk out. And, and there is grace all day for those things. So I just, you know, it is a healthy— now it's kind of like we, we, we almost anticipate it, um, the grief at the, at the joyful things, right?

Right.

But we're able to hold on and not lose the joy in the middle of it. It's kind of like, yeah, this is the dance. This is, this is what healthy grieving looks like. And it's okay to feel those quote-unquote setbacks. It's really not. It really is— your muscles are still in there, you're strengthening. And, and it really is just, um, you're feeling that love with nowhere to go.

Yeah.

And, um, but my kids, um, I'm so proud of them and, and the way that they love and honor their dad Andrew, and that they also love and have made space for John. And John is such an incredible earthly dad to them and has filled in, you know, a lot of gaps along the way. But it, you know, it's still just— it's just this, this dance that we all have to have just grace for, you know.

And, you know, it's interesting as we're talking, a lot of times in in life, we feel like it's either or. It's either grief or joy. It's either you're, you know, you're married to Andrew or you're married to John, you know. And it's not— we don't have to make it— we can't make those choices, right? So like, even your wedding day, I think you said, was like a perfect example. It's, it's one of the most joyous days of your life, but it's also going to be filled with grief because it brings you back to that space. I can imagine your kids, you know, graduations and when they get married, all those things Oh yeah, those are days that are filled. You're going to be— your heart's gonna be filled both emotions at the same time.

That's right. And, and what I'm learning and what I have learned over the years is there is space for both.

Yeah, yeah. I love the title. I know you've written a book, and I don't think we've talked about it yet, but you've written a book. I love the title of your book. People, tell people what the title is and why you chose it.

It's called And She Got Up, and, um, this is my story of, um, all that I've, I've walked through when my life shattered. Um, it's a firsthand account of me walking through the valley of the shadow of death and God meeting me right in the middle and really bringing me up. But the thing is, like, this is not just my story. This is all of our story. And This is what's possible when we just surrender our lives over to God and say, I didn't plan this. This is— I'm disappointed, but God, I'm trusting that you have more life ahead for me and that you are not done writing my story. And so I— my hope is that whoever picks up this book and reads it, that they would find themselves in the story, that they would find their own story within mine. And grab onto the hope that is available to every single one of us. There is no one too far gone. There is no— nothing that's off limits. There is no one that is, um, you know, been pushed aside to where you cannot grab hold of, of this life and get up and walk in purpose and victory. So I really cannot wait to share it. This is something that has been on my heart to write for over a decade, and I fought it. I said, you know, all the excuses, and there is in the book to say, I don't have the tapes, I can't do this. And I just felt like God is saying, write the book. And so I got serious about it and I wrote it, and it took about 3 years to get to this point now to where I get to share it with the world. And I can't, I just can't wait. It's raw. It's relatable, it's real, and we go on a journey in this book. And it's broken up into 4 different parts. It's the breaking, the making, the rising, and the sending. Because the beautiful thing is what we go through, we don't have to stay there. But we get to turn around and help someone else. Yeah, there's so much purpose in what we go through. So, um, yes, I can't wait to share it.

Yeah, it's awesome. I'm glad that you, that you answered the call to write it and to share that, because, um, when you were— when you tell your story, you know, I asked you to start off by telling, you know, we, I go back to that place too with you because I, I know what That's like, I felt that loss. And I know that feeling that people have, like, it's over. My phrase is, I say, we are planted, not buried. But you feel like you've been buried. And when something is buried, it decays. It doesn't come back. We bury things, we put them away because we don't expect them to come back. And what it is, though, as you mentioned earlier, there's purpose even in the pain. And we can take that and we can— and you did. You chose, and, and you, you relied on your faith. You know, you, you said Jesus helped you, but you reached out, you held his hand, and you, and you held on to your faith, and that led you through. But that is a choice. And, you know, sometimes people feel like, I don't have a choice in this, and we absolutely do. We don't have a choice in what happens to us, but we have a choice in how we respond to it. And you, you've actually— you're showing that way. And I love— you also said earlier And you're saying some— a lot, a lot of the same things I say. It's like the path is not open to us, like, all the way out. It's not a wide, you know, straight shot. It's, it's a bending, winding path, and we're in the dark, and we've got a flashlight, and we can see a few feet ahead, but that's— we have to rely— this is enough. And that's exactly what you've done.

Yes. And, and I just— it's possible, isn't it? You, you know like you're living it too. Like, it's possible to walk this impossible life.

Yeah, yeah. And it does. I know, I know it feels impossible. I, I— so anybody, for people that are listening, it— I— when you say it feels impossible, or you say, I don't— you don't understand, my, my circumstance is different. I mean, I offer up Courtney, right? I, you know, 29 years old with the same person for your life, you know, 3 small children. I it had to feel impossible to you that you were going to get to this point.

How did I feel it was possible?

I mean, I would imagine it felt impossible to you.

Oh yeah.

Yeah. If someone said, Courtney, don't worry, in 12 years here's where you're going to be.

Oh, I, I, I, I couldn't fathom it.

Yeah.

And I really, um, I've seen— I mean, I just want to say again, if you're in those early days, years, and maybe it has been 13 years and you're still wondering when, you know, yeah, when the possibility is going to break through. I just want to declare that today is the day, like, as you're listening to this, that you would, you would walk in breakthrough of a new day and a new beginning. The beautiful thing is that every day we have the opportunity to start over again. We have a new beginning every single day, and that with that, like you said, we have a choice. And no one's gonna make us, make us do it. But I will say, walking by faith, walking in the unknown, walking when you don't see it and you don't feel it, um, one step at a time, God is gonna be faithful every single step of the way to bring you into a life of possibility that looked like dead-end road, that looked like a red light forever. The light's going to turn green and the fog will lift and the color will come back. And there is more life ahead.

Yeah. Wow. All right. I think that's a great way to end. Unless if there's anything that I didn't ask you that you'd like to talk about or that you wish I had asked you, anything else you'd like to share with the audience?

No, I mean, we could talk all day, but, uh, um, no, I just do— I really believe that, that no one and nothing, you know, no one is too far gone.

Yeah, I love when you said that because it doesn't matter if it's been 13 years and you still feel like you haven't started growing yet. Today is the day, right? That's it. And I know you talk about resurrection, and when people think about resurrection, we think about Jesus, you know, rising from from the physical death. But, you know, there's a perspective that says every morning is a resurrection. Every time you open your eyes, it's a new chance. So you can start today, um, you— it's— and every journey starts with a single step.

That's it. That's right.

Yeah.

So grateful.

Courtney, I know that, um, you have a website, so if people want to reach out to you, let people know how they can reach you, and also remind people the name of your book again.

Yeah, um, the name of my book is called And She Got Up, and, um, you can get it, um, wherever you like to get your books. Um, my website is courtneypreyduke.com, and we can stay connected there. Um, there are links for where to buy books, and there will be news and all kinds of things where I'll be speaking. Um, but I would love, I would love to, to have you guys on board, and, um, let's do this thing together.

Yeah. Courtney, thanks for being here today. You're quite an inspiration. Um, have a great rest of your day.

Thank you so much, Brian. It's an honor.

Grief doesn't follow stages, timelines, or rules. If you've ever wondered, am I doing this right, you're not alone. That's why I created the Grief Check-In. It's not a test. There are no right or wrong answers. It's simply a gentle way to understand how grief may be showing up for you right now. In just a few minutes, you'll gain clarity and language for your experience without judgment, labels, or pressure to move on. If you're wondering where you are in grief, this is a safe place to find out. Go to grief2growth.com/checkin. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/checkin. Hi there, I'm really excited to tell you about my latest ebook. It's 4 lessons that you can learn from the near-death experience without going through all the trouble of dying to learn them. I've been studying NDEs for several years now. I am completely convinced that not only are they 100% real, but that there's some very universal wisdom that we can get from the near-death experience. And I've distilled that down in this book into 4 short lessons. And I've also given you all the reasons why I believe that NDEs are absolutely real. So go to www.grieftogrowth.com/NDElessons to pick it up for free. Www.grief2growth.com/NDElessons. I hope you enjoy it.