Mindfulness, Monastic Life, and the Art of Letting Go | Stephen Schettini- EP 422

You know you need something, you're just not sure what. You've been listening, you're doing the work, but there's still this feeling that you're circling the same place, like you're waiting for the thing that finally moves you. Now maybe you've thought about working with me one-on-one. Maybe something's held you back, the timing, the money, or you're just not sure you're ready yet. I get that. And I want you to know there's still a place for you. I built a resource for exactly this moment, guided meditations for when the waves hit and you just need to breathe. Workbooks to help you get out of your head and onto the page, ebooks on what near-death experiences tell us about the people we've lost, and whether they're really gone, a full course for widows and widowers who are ready to find their way back to living, and a full course for the evidence of the afterlife. And all of it is available for pay what you want. Nobody gets turned away because of money. I think these resources are valuable, but I don't want to hold them back because you don't have the money to pay for them. You don't have to wait until you're ready for coaching. The next step might be a lot smaller than you think. To find out, go to grief2growth.com/store. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/store. And check out the resources I've made for you.

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You know, one of the hardest things about grief? Most of the people in your life just don't get it. They want you to be further along than you are. They get uncomfortable when you bring it up, so you stop bringing it up. And that's why I started writing. My Substack is where I go deeper. Thoughts I don't always get to on the podcast. Essays on consciousness, on continuing bonds, on what it actually means to carry a loss and still build a life. The stuff that used to keep me up at night, written out in a way that I hope meets you in the morning. But here's what I didn't expect when I started it: the community that showed up. People who are doing exactly what you're doing— listening, learning, trying to find their footing. Readers who comment, who share their own stories, who remind each other that none of us are as alone in this as we feel. And that's what the Substack has become— a place to go deeper with me and to find your people. It's free to subscribe. Find me at grief2growth.com/substack. That's grief, the numeral 2, growth.com/substack. Or just go to Substack and search for Grief to Growth. I hope to see you there. keeps track of my daily streaks. I love having, you know, the streaks. And I took a challenge to meditate 365 days in a row. And I did it. I ended up doing it for like 4 years. Because I did it for a year and then, and then I, you know, fell off. But find a way, whether it's joining the Zoom, which sounds like a great thing, because that gives you commitment and community.

Yeah.

And accountability to an outside person can be very helpful. Because it's really, really easy to say, I'm too busy to meditate today, I'll do it tomorrow. So what I do is I actually, I put it on my calendar. I have it on my calendar for twice a day. I do once in the morning and once in the afternoon. Now, this morning I was busy at the podcast with you, but as soon as we get off of here, I will do my morning meditation. And I tell people it's like brushing your teeth, you know, you don't skip days of brushing your teeth. So it's really important. It's— you have to make it a priority, I guess, is what it comes down to.

Yeah. And it's not, it's not necessarily very sexy, you know, it's not like studying Tibetan Buddhism and wow. It's, it's, it's pretty plain bread and butter stuff. You know, you see, you see yourself messing up and your mind swirling. And, um, but as you get to know it, what you're doing is you're getting to know yourself in real time. Yeah. And reactivity.

Yeah. And people have to understand, there are— I, I don't like using these terms, but there are good days and bad days. There's some days I'll sit in meditation and that the 20 minutes will just like fly by and I feel really deep peace. And it's like, oh wow, I didn't even realize I was there for 20. And other days I'm 2 minutes in, I'm like, I've got so much stuff to do? Why am I sitting here? And I'm peeking at the clock. So I still have those days, too.

And most people assume that, well, the first meditation was good and the second one was bad.

Right.

That's not true. That second day when your mind was all over the place and you were distracted and you couldn't sit still and you feel, that's insight. You're seeing the way you behave. You're seeing the way you react to the situation. You have expectations there. Otherwise you wouldn't be frustrated. So what are the expectations? That's how we learn. That's how we change. If you don't get your finger on what you're doing wrong, you can't stop doing it.

Yeah, I'm glad we're having this conversation because I think it's really important for people to understand. Because again, I talked to people when I first started meditating. I remember I was out to lunch with these guys and I said, yeah, and they're both highly successful people, highly driven. And they're like, I can't, I couldn't sit for 5 minutes, I couldn't do it. Like, just do it. Just set a timer and sit for 5 minutes. It doesn't matter what happens.

Well, the highly driven people are the ones who are least likely to do it, right?

Exactly.

Difficulty. Yeah, yeah, that's the thing. They want to do stuff, they want to be able to see it and count it and measure it, and you can't do that with mindfulness.

Yeah, yeah. And again, I think it really helps for us to tell people that because again, they think, oh, you've been meditating there so long, it must be easy for you. And you just sit and your mind turns off. And that's not the way it works.

No, not at all. Not at all. But that's the illusion, because our idea of knowledge and of studying and of furthering ourselves is all based on this idea of accumulating more information. Okay. And mindfulness, among other things, is a process of unlearning. That, that's really the, the, the key thing that we're doing. We're recognizing our own mental patterns. We're seeing how they're triggered by certain events, and then we're loosening that, that connection so that instead of reacting, we take a step back and, and watch things. So we're letting go of behaviors and things that we know in order to look with new eyes. And that's very counterintuitive. And the more education you've had, the more busy you are mentally in your life, the harder that is to do.

Yeah, I love what you said about unlearning, because when I took— I mentioned Kelvin earlier, and he teaches something called Turning Within Meditation. And I started off with contemplative prayer many years ago because I was coming out of the Christian tradition. So I was doing that, and I tried different things. And So, uh, he was like, I have this method called Turning Within, which is based on TM, because he was a TM teacher. And it was kind of like, I'm like, okay, so I don't do this? No, you don't do that. I don't do this? And, and I'm not supposed to have any expectations? And don't say this was— this one was good and that one was bad? And, and I'm like, so what do I do now? And he's like, you don't have to do anything. Stop trying. You know, uh, it's very difficult for people like that have tried to study, and we want to do it right. Am I doing it right?

Look, if I tell you to have no expectations, it's like telling you, please do not think of a blue rhinoceros.

Right.

You're going to be looking. But the point is not to let go of your— well, yes, in the end, the idea is to let go of expecting, but the immediate idea is to notice what expectations you have. Mm-hmm. Okay, I'm trying to meditate, but I'm expecting to feel calm and peaceful. Okay, there's an expectation. You don't have to go any further with it. You don't have to beat it down into the ground and come up with a good analysis of why it's wrong. You just have to see it. That's what I mean by knowing yourself. You just see that that expectation is there. We see the judgments, you know, 'Oh, I'm no good at this. I'm stupid.' That's a judgment. Okay. As soon as you say that, as soon as you label it, then you— labeling is the antidote to taking things personally. Okay. So I have all these expectations. So I'm messing up. This meditation is no good. Okay. If I believe that, if I sit with that, then I've lost an opportunity. If I can take that and say, okay, that's my expectation, that's what I learned from this, then that's the practice of mindfulness. Now you're moving forward. Now you've, instead of taking it personally, you've now objectified it. You've taken it out of your mind. It's not who you are. It's just a thought passing through your mind that you can let go.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a really, really big thing I've gotten from meditation is understanding that I am not my thoughts and that I don't have to chase my thoughts. I don't have to, I don't have to let them. You know, we get those thoughts in our mind that run on a loop, and we can't figure out how to get rid of them. One of the things that's been really helpful for me in learning mindfulness is like, okay, that's a thought. And I can choose to continue with that thought. Now, I can't stop thoughts because they come, you know, and I can't choose which ones come up. But I can choose which ones I entertain. I tell people, it's like, if someone comes to your house and walks in the— walks in the house, you don't have to let them stay. They might come in, but you can ask them to leave.

Yeah, that's basically what you're doing. You're running through an inventory of your mind and you're seeing what's going on in there. Where does this lead? Okay, so I have this expectation. I want meditation to put me at rest, put my mind at rest. I want to stop thinking about politics. Okay, I want to stop thinking about all the horrible stuff that's going on. If that is your expectation and you can see it, you start to become free of it.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, completely. Because I, again, personal experience, I woke up this morning, I was like, I'm tired of thinking about this. I don't want to think about this first thing every morning, so I'm not going to. Um, and also that realization you talked about being in the present moment, I think it's really we hear the words, and it took me a long time to really put it into practice. But we live so much of our life in the past. So I'm like, if I'm angry, I'm living in the past. If I'm fearful, I'm living in the future. And so when I catch that, I'm like, okay, like, just like right now, you know, it could be very easy to get caught up on what's going to happen because of what happened this morning, you know, for example. But I don't know what's going to happen in the future. And so right now I'm okay. And just doing that can bring us some peace even as we're going through difficult times.

Yeah. Yeah. Because we spin everything. We can't help it. It's the way the mind is. So I get a bit of bad news this morning and I'm thinking, well, that's bad. Where is that going to lead? Well, it's going to lead here and then that's going to happen. Then, oh, and supposing— okay, I'm working myself up. This is not anyone else's fault. It's very easy for me to point and say, that's the media, or that's the, you know, that's Donald Trump did that to me. No, it's me doing it to myself. And as soon as you accept that, you have power. Because if I know that I'm doing this, then that means I can change it, right? As long as I'm blaming someone else and I think someone else is responsible, then I'm helpless. So that's very important.

Yeah, I think I think so. And so again, I always like to bring it back to the practical. So for someone listening to this right now, if you're going through anxiety because of what's coming up, uh, or what you perceive is coming up, just having that perception, just that little bit of separation, knowing that that's your mind doing that, right? Because we don't, we don't know what's going to happen. And you can choose to just say, I'm going to come back to this present moment. In this present moment I'm okay. And I tell people, I think it's a great exercise. It's just always in this present moment right now, I'm sitting in my office, I'm warm, I'm fed, I have power, I'm okay.

Yeah. And we are. Yeah. For the time being. And of course, bad things might happen, but bad things might always happen. They always do, as we both know.

Yeah.

But there's no point in Well, I hate to say it like that. There's no point worrying about the future. It's sort of a throwaway expression. Yeah, that's logically true, but you're ignoring the fact of human psychology.

Well, it's funny because Jesus famously said that, take no thought for what you're going to eat tomorrow, what you're going to wear. And you can take that to an extreme. And that bypasses being a human. Because as a human, I, I do have to think about retirement. I do have to think about what I'm going to eat for dinner this evening so I can take something out of the freezer, whatever. So those teachings are meant to be a goal, but, but don't, don't live your entire life in the future, which we can really get caught up in. And that's what I see people spinning out, you know, this is, this is going to happen, and in 3 years. I just know this is what's going to happen. And we're— again, first of all, we're often so wrong about it. But also, from a practical point of view, what can I do about it? And I like to focus on, okay, this might happen, what can I do? And then I do what I can do, and then I let it go.

Yeah, well, that, that's discipline. And that's, that's what we're cultivating here. That's why we do this regularly, is to remind ourselves that this has to be done, and that I can do it. I have the power to do it. You know, very famously, there's the core teaching of Buddhism is the Fourfold Path. And often, well, it's often called the Four Noble Truths, but it's about truth. I think it's about practice. And the fourth part is simply to acknowledge what you've done. So part 3 is letting go. Part 2 is understanding what you're letting go of. And part 1 is seeing that there's something to let go of. So once you get to that third part that you've let go, you might think, well, that's it, I've done it. But no, you have to reinforce that knowledge. It's very important. I can let go. I just did it, and I'm going to do it again.. And you have to keep reminding yourself of that, otherwise you'll forget. I don't know why. That's just the way we're made. We focus on what, you know, we focus much more on immediate challenges and threats than we do on strengths and deep inner integrity. That's again, that's the way we're built. We've got to respect our biology.

Right.

At the same time, knowing that we have this incredible gift as human beings to actually change our behavior and change the way we perceive things. Thanks.

Yeah, I think it's fascinating, and I, I've thought about this for a long time, and I've come to the conclusion— and I— you've said it, it's biology. We are— our brains are designed to keep us alive. Our brains are designed to seek out danger, to, to make sure that we stay away from the tiger, that we, you know, that we're, that we're always on edge. Um, so that's the way our body, our biology is designed. But we do have this beautiful mind that we've been given that we can use to— we can, we can, um, and we can't control it, but we can, we can use it. It can become a tool, right? As opposed to it just running us around, which is what it's doing for most people.

Yeah, we see it in animals. We, uh, I, I live— I don't actually live in Montreal, I live just outside in the country, so I look out my window and I see squirrels and foxes and things all day long. And sometimes I just sit, and this is another form of meditation, you know, you just, I just sit there and I look and I think, I wonder what it's like to be that squirrel. And it's not difficult. You just take the time to do it and you put, you put your mind in there and you see he's looking around all the time. He's scared. He's nervous. He's under threat. Okay. He's under threat. What's that like? Well, 24/7, basically. Yeah.

Yeah.

He's in a state of constant anxiety.

Yeah. Yeah.

And most, well, yeah, most animals, not all lions aren't, but you know, there's only the ones at the top of the heap that don't have to worry about that. So that's understanding of, of how we can be, how we are in many ways that, that animalistic brain that, that, you know, the brainstem is right there.

Right?

Same as the squirrel. But we've got this other stuff up here, and we can use it to make tons of money and to put other people down and to, to glorify ourselves, or we can use it to make the world a better place. It's our choice. Um, but to choose the right things, to choose or take a moral stance, and to build it and to learn from experience, to fall flat on our faces and to to get up again. That's the work. It takes courage. It takes energy. Mindfulness is not enough by itself. You have to activate it. You have to reinforce it. It has to come from somewhere, some deep well inside you. There has to be a deep craving, almost a lust, you know, for something more, something clearer. That's what can really propel us to true transformation. It's within our power. It's not magical. Absolutely.

Steve, we're coming to the end of our time. If you could remind people of the names of your books. I know you have a Zoom meeting and where people can reach you.

Well, my website is mindfulnesslive.ca, or you can go to skatini.com. It's the same website. And you'll learn all about what I offer right there. And you can contact me through the website. Mindfulness Live runs Monday, Wednesdays, Fridays at 12 noon Eastern time for half an hour. If you can't come, you can listen to the recording. Come and give it a try. Just send me an email and I'll give you a free trial, no problem. And I welcome anyone who really wants to commit to a formal meditation practice. Um, it's as simple as that. I'm also teaching courses from time to time, and you'll find that on the website too.

All right, awesome. Well, it was really good to talk to you today. Thanks for being here.

Yeah, it was great. Thank you very much, Brian D Smith.

All right, have a good afternoon.

You too.

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